227: Jamie Loftus

0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. Yeah, like there's these sort of like five books that guys who had just moved here would buy. And I thought it was funny and kind of annoying. And Infinite Jest is so big that I'm like, oh, I'll just I'll just eat it. You're listening to The Taste Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Rodbarg.

0:58It was so much fun having Jamie Loftus into the studio. Jamie is a comedy writer and podcast host behind some of my favorite series, including My Year in Mensa and ACKCAST, a very Kathy podcast. On this episode, Jamie and I tackle all sorts of topics and talk about her incredible new book, Raw Dog, The Naked Truth About Hot Dogs. Yes, Jamie spent a solid year traveling around America diving into the world of tube steaks. We find out about banishing ketchup from the bun and what makes a great mall food court. I hope you enjoy this. I sure did.

1:39Jamie Loftus, welcome to the Taste Podcast. Hello. So fun having you in, meeting you face to face. I know your voice. I know your voice too. This is exciting. Right. So I want to get into Raw Dog, your incredible book about hot dogs and a journey and a real homerific tale. Is that right? Homerific? Does that work? Homerific? I mean, it sounds good to me. It sounds like Simpsons-esque. Simpsons-esque. I was thinking the dead guy, the blind guy. Oh, him. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, like something like classics, like something like that. I feel like, yeah, after writing a book, I'm like, I should know that.

2:12That's a big one. I just faked it. I'm not like a big classics guy. Certainly didn't get a classics degree. You're not into the classics? No, big C classics. Before we get to Raw Dog, though, you review sandwiches on YouTube. So let's just go into it. I would like to offer you some sandwiches. I'm going to give you the first one, the BLT. Yeah. Kind of easy. Oh, my fave. Review it. Go in. Well, the BLT, I just had a—I love fast food. It's a big problem. I just had a bunch of Tim Horton's BLTs in the last couple days. Oh, nice. I was in Toronto, and they toast that thing up real nice for you right outside the hockey museum.

2:47It was great. Oh, I love that in Toronto. It's so good. It was the best. And so I'm a big fan of BLTs. It's usually the perfect serving size for me. And a big thing with me and sandwiches is I have gum disease. So if the bread's too sharp, my mouth will bleed. And I refuse to fix this, so I have to only eat sandwiches that will accommodate that. So, like, the ciabatta is, like, your archenemy. Ciabatta, banh mi, can't do it. Can't do it. Can't do it. I'll embarrass myself in front of my friends. It will actually bleed down like Pee Wee's Big Adventure. Exactly. A mouthful of blood just the hallway from The Shining if I eat a Bambi sandwich.

3:24All right. BLT perfect. Next one, I did not realize you were a fast food hive, but the McLean Deluxe with cheese. Ooh. I've never had one. I would really like to try one. Have you had one? I mean, I had one in 1992. too because it was a limited McDonald's healthy hamburger from the 90s. So I was wondering if you had a thought on that. I will probably. I feel like I'm unfortunately, like many others, very susceptible to diet culture pitches that sound vaguely disgusting. Yeah. I was drinking the Gatorade Zero that looks like piss on the way over here. So I would probably try it. It had to have been disgusting though, right?

4:04Yeah. Yeah, it actually had seaweed in it back in like before seaweed was actually like an adaptogen, blah, blah, blah. I would like seaweed on a burger, but I feel like the McDonald's, I don't really trust them with that. It lasted for literally one quarter. I think they had like Q3, 1993, it was there and then Q4, it was gone. I bet that there's still people that like ride for it hard though. Those are my favorite kinds of like I keep a Facebook account strictly to monitor those groups, specifically Save the Subway Seafood Sensation. Oh, I know that one. One of my favorite groups. It's like 2 ,000 calorie fake crab and mayonnaise sandwich.

4:42I love that so much. I have so many thoughts and we might write a story about it. But moving on, are you into dead stock sodas? No, tell me more. Like Amazon sodas, like sodas from the 90s that you can buy on Amazon? No, I didn't know that was a thing. Actually more eBay, I'm sorry. Yeah. Wait, like what? Crystal Pepsi. Okay. Josta. Pepsi Blue. Pepsi Blue, Surge. Surge. Like the first-gen Surge, not the Regen Surge. Yes. I loved the first-gen Surge. What a font. It was a great font. And Jost is a great font, too. Sorry, back to sandwiches. Croissant with turkey. No. Simply no. No, thank you. Is that because of, like, airports or why not?

5:21I just feel like there's never enough going on in that kind of sandwich that I want. It's a little too much bread. It's soft bread. It's good for my purposes. But I don't know. There's always a quality to the croissant when there's like just meat on the inside where it's just like a little bit scary wet to me. It has a weird ratio of dry to wet. I agree. Yeah. OK, the ham, cheese and butter. Someone's called the jambon bear in France. A baguette, though. On a baguette. Yeah. That's going to be a challenge, but I would do it because it's a good sandwich. You would fight through it. I would fight through it.

5:56If I was with a loved one that I was like, look, this is going to happen and you can love me anyways. And then I would do it because that sounds really good, especially all toasty. Oh, yeah. Toast it up. OK, last one. PB &J. Oh, I mean, you can't go wrong. I love a PB &J. I love a toasted PB &J. Wow. It's my fave. So why toast? That's great. I'm really fascinated by that choice. I think something about having the peanut butter a little bit heated really works for me. Oh, I get it now. So you actually heat up the insides too. I was thinking like toasted and then you apply, but you're talking about like total.

6:34It's the greatest. I have this toaster at home I got at CVS that makes little Hello Kitties on the bread. Oh, fun. And toasted PB &J with Hello Kitties on the bread. Oof. Oh, beautiful. Just a perfect way to start the day. Next question. You ate Infinite Jest. So that doesn't mean you ate the recipes presented in this, you know, iconic David Foster Wallace novel. Are there recipes in the book? I've never read it. I haven't read it. Absolutely. I don't know what happens. So what did you do? I ate. I didn't finish it, unfortunately. It's a very big book, but I made it about 400 pages in. Maybe a little more.

7:09I don't remember. But, yeah, that was like five or six years ago. And it was just kind of like a joke because I worked at bookstores in L.A. when I first moved. And we would move a lot of copies of that and like how to win friends and influence people. Like there was just like kind of vague. Yeah. Like there was just these sort of like five books that guys who had just moved here would buy. And I thought it was funny and kind of annoying. And Infinite Jest is so big that I'm like, oh, I'll just I'll just eat it. I'm going to link to the show notes. We don't need to talk that one out. It's pretty, pretty brilliant.

7:41We'll go. But let's go back to your history. So, you know, New York book buyers have infinite snobbery, to be honest. And so I'm looking at L.A. and I'm kind of judging the book buyer there. What is the book buyer like in L.A.? I think that there I well, I've really grown to love L.A. over the years because there's just like a very naive sweetness to the people at bookstores. There are assholes as well. I mean, there's always people that are like, oh, like but there's like I don't know. It was a fun like kind of it was I'd never seen more celebrities than I saw at that bookstore because it was on the Sunset Strip.

8:16It's called Book Soup. And I was it was right when I moved there. So I was like, oh, this is like what it's going to be like all the time of like Ellen DeGeneres making the employees leave the store so she could look around by herself. Like just scary stuff. Yeah. But the average. And that did happen, right? That did happen. And then also Keanu Reeves came every Wednesday on his motorcycle and got Sudoku puzzles and a new hardcover fiction book. That's so lovely. Hardcover fiction, the big formats. I know. He was supporting on the week of release. I love that. He's helping those authors hit the list.

8:52He's the best. But no, for the most part, it does just seem like I'm trying to think of a way that doesn't sound like mean, But it's just like people in L.A. often feel like I should read a book at some point. And that sort of feels more like what it is. It's like it's either like really juicy nonfiction. I was working there when the Leah Remini book came out and that was like bananas. Like cars roll up just to like buy out the stock. Yeah, it was the buying out the stock. Yeah, that was my reference. Oh, you actually said the words. Actually, I talk shit about on a previous podcast when we cut it out.

9:29So very fair. very fair um so we're back to this so i hope it makes it in the edit but yeah it's just like it's uh there there are obviously like readers in la but for the most part it's just people that are like yeah i should i should at least have a book just to seem like i might read it which i i love what is your best celebrity book suggestion meaning a celebrity walked in and you suggested a book oh god i was terrified to suggest i actually there was a time it was i it was amy adams um good one came in really nice she came film actor well regarded many awards she was great i recommended something to her that she was like not interested in at all it was a book of photography she's like i'm looking for like a coffee table book to get for a friend and i was like there's this great collection i saw called carnival strippers and she was like no thank you and then came asked if she could come behind the desk to use my computer wait and because like that We had like the search engine.

10:29She was looking for a book and she's like, okay, I know it, but I got to type it out. Yeah. She was like, can I just see the list of coffee table books? And I was like, yeah, but I can't like I can turn them on. She was like, I'll just come back. And then she was so tiny and it was really exciting. She didn't want carnival strippers. And she was wrong about that because it's a great photo collection by Susan Bezalas. Great pick there. What about cookbooks? You know, we publish a lot of cookbooks here and we talk about it on the show a lot. Any cookbooks that you're pushing? Do you remember back in the day?

10:56Oh, boy. Uh, I, I remember, oh God, what's the Moby restaurant? We sold a lot of those. Yes. Yeah. Oh my God. I love that. That was a, that was a big seller. I love that book. I interviewed Moby for that one. What was that place called? It was a beautiful book. Pat, help us out. What was the name of that, that, that, uh, it was so funny cause I loved, I loved reading the Silver Lake. It was that cool. It was a great restaurant. Yeah. I don't know if it's, I think it's still around maybe. Yeah. It's not teeny. Obviously that's a New York one. Um, but yeah. It was so, cause I had just, I was like, wow.

11:27I can never afford to go there, but it sounds lovely. I know. It was pricey, but a great one. Was it Little Pine? It was Little Pine, yes. Yeah, Little—it doesn't scream Moby Little Pine. No. No, it's kind of stealth. So you pushed that book. That's cool. I think we published it. It made some money for us. Yeah, I hope so. I was doing my best. Thank you for selling books and being interested in books. I mean, I love books, and I love booksellers. they're some of the most fascinating unhinged people in the world. Oh I love it going down to Books Are Magic. I love the staff they're just fun to hang with.

12:03Yeah. Of course the Strand legendary test you must take and just a cool vibe there. Really? I didn't know about that. It's like apparently pretty easy I've only read about it. I've never taken it but apparently it's pretty easy but it's a good weeder you know. Oh okay they do the same thing when they hire at the Wienermobile. Oh my god we'll get into that so I love the segue. Thank you for that. You've written in a book and it's called Raw Dog. And I love the name. Did the publisher get the joke? I don't know. It's still unclear. My editor definitely got the joke. My editor is amazing. And I was we were just suggesting like all these things.

12:37And I was like, I mean, this would be my ideal title. And she's like, all right, well, we can maybe bank on, you know, older higher ups, maybe not knowing what that means. Because I asked my mom and I was like, do you know what that means and she was like no is it disgusting and i was like not really it's just kind of like i mean not to me and then i told her and she was like oh that's like kind of beautiful yeah it's a beautiful thing um it's a beautiful thing when you can slip in a uh a title or a section and and maybe everyone doesn't quite understand it feels really yeah it feels like i got away with something i'm really excited about it and i love someone pointed out to me um a couple because i took like a mirror selfie with it.

13:18And they're like, your book is called War God. And I was like, oh, it's War God backwards. War God. Okay. So you're on the trail and I love the premise of this book. And I have had a lot of hot dogs in my life, but you are on a hot dog journey. You are on. So tell us about what the premise and the concept is of this journey. So the book is sort of told through a road trip I took with my ex-boyfriend and our pets eating hot dogs across the country from LA up to Massachusetts and then all the way back around. And then in between those sort of road trips stories where we were just meeting people and it was also the summer of 2021.

13:59So it was sort of this very particular bizarre COVID moment where we kept, you know, like we literally couldn't turn back at many points because there were all these weather events. There was the Delta variant. There are all these other things going on. And yeah, so between those stories, it's there's chapters about different elements of hot dog history because there are books about hot dogs, but not ones that were that mentioned anything unpleasant, which feels like you're missing a lot of the hot dog experience by only mentioning pleasant things. Like are the hot dog burps like pleasant or unpleasant?

14:35Oh, I love them. I think that's great. But it's like I'm talking like the meatpacking industry. Oh, yeah. So you get into that. And I love that. Clearly, there's a social commentary. And if you're a fan of any of your podcast work, which I am a huge fan of, clearly you are very funny, but you also have a lot of activism and social justice is important to you, too, which clearly in this book, you're tackling that. I feel like I've been lucky to be able to find topics that there's like elements of like, well, yeah, I love to talk about workers' rights, but there's so many books about workers' rights and I'm not best qualified to do that.

15:10But what I can do is learn everything about hot dogs and find the workers' rights stories inside of that topic. And there's so many of them. It was really, like, great and frustrating to explore, you know, like a century, basically, worth of hot dog workers' disrespect. Yeah, and from the meatpacking to the actual restaurant service, too. Exactly. Yeah, because this was the summer that I think was, it was, like, shortly before, I think it was, like, the fall of 2021, where a ton of people were leaving their jobs. It was like the great something. I forget what it's called. Resignation? The Great Resignation.

15:47Yeah. Yeah, in October 2021. Yep. And leading up to that, it was all summer at these small businesses. The owners would generally be like, no one wants to come to work anymore. Like that whole era and like unpacking like, well, what does that mean? Yeah, exactly. It's almost like there's— Maybe it's systematically fucked up. Yeah, exactly. Possibly, not because everyone's lazy. Maybe you're not paying people. Yeah. You have to sling hot dogs all day. Is there a union for the wiener dog, mobile, wienermobile drivers? No, but there should be. They run, I love wienermobile culture. I can't complain about it.

16:25It is like definitely a cult-like environment where they like, it's like. Like Disney level? Pretty close. I feel like that is, And there is, from what I've, you know, anecdotal evidence, seems like there's a fair amount of overlap between Disney adults and Wienermobile drivers. The personality type clicks for it. And so when you get trained to be a Wienermobile driver, they only pick, I think, 12 every year. My gosh. So it's very competitive. Yeah. And then you're put into a two-week training seminar in Wisconsin. Yeah, in like Madison. Yes. I went to college there. I remember seeing those things on the road.

17:01Yeah. That's so exciting. It was exciting. The parallel parking, though, did you find out about that? How do you park that thing? I've seen it, and it really—because I befriended two Wienermobile drivers, and I got them to come to a comedy theater that I really love in L.A. But, yeah, we had to watch them parallel park for—I mean, it was pretty brutal. And they'd been doing it for six months, and they're like, there's no way to get good at this. Now, let me ask you about the hot dog as a food item. Yeah. You know, a couple questions. First, what makes a great hot dog to you, Jamie? Oh, my gosh.

17:35Thank you for asking. I don't discriminate with toppings. I think, you know, I generally I don't know how happy the city of Chicago will be with me when the book comes out. It's I don't I it's not that, you know, their hot dog is fine, but I don't like people policing what can and can't be on a hot dog. It's like relax, especially when it's ketchup and people are like, well, it's so sugary. I'm like, you're already eating a hot dog, dude. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah, it's a bizarre argument. I love what you just said because as a father who grew up on the north side of Chicago who refused ketchup on his dog and my uncle too, I'm like, yo, dude, ketchup's pretty good.

18:10It's, yeah, and it's like you're not going to, like, it's not a win for health to forego ketchup when you're already eating a deep fried hot dog. Are they like, yeah, mustard has one calorie while ketchup has like 14? Yes, which is violent and we shouldn't abide by it. It's like, it drives me nuts. But, okay, a good hot dog has a toasted bun every single time. Can't not have a toasted bun. I like New England buns, but I'm from New England. The difference is like the split style, the way they split them. The split, and it's a little taller. You can really nestle it in there. It's kind of fun. I love grilled dogs.

18:48I think grilled is the way to go, and it's like the most easy way to make a great hot dog at home. but if you can I like the Rutz Hut style hot dog where it's like the ripper where it's just like dipped in frying oil for like a couple seconds and then there's a good snap on it it's kind of fried in that oil for a little while yeah? Yeah and they have those different levels where it goes from like the ripper to oh my god the final one I forget what it's called but it's like literally solid meat and they make you sign a waiver before Or they'll sell you one, which is kind of fun. What's the fear?

19:27That it will kill you or chip your tooth. Oh, I see. A cremator, I think it's called. Oh, cool. And it's also just like there's so much like pomp and circumstance to hot dog culture where it's like they're making you sign the waiver so that they can take a picture of it and put it on the wall too. And I love how goofy it gets. The same with like with the eating competitions, which I'm very, very obsessed with. And there's a lot in the book about it. You went to the, did you go to Nathan's? Oh, yeah. Yeah. 2021, baby. I was there. I saw Joey Chestnut. Joey and Kobayashi. I wish I saw Kobayashi.

20:01What about Crazy Legs Conti? You hang with him? I've not met Crazy Legs Conti. I'm trying to get him to come to my book release show. I would love to meet him. What about Sonia Thomas, the Black Widow? My hero. Me too. I love, she is, oh God, she is, there should be a biopic about her. I love her. She is the best. So we're at the fucking Taco Bell for like, or Burger King. Burger King, yeah. I'm like a naval base. and then I just and I love Kobayashi so much I love that he's still around have you seen the 30 for 30 about Joey I've seen every I'm majorly eating like I definitely like hung with those guys the Shays like I got to like spend oh my god not this is like not a name drop session I just meant I like appreciate what they do but maybe it was a name drop sesh it's intense I mean the Shays brothers I mean they're polarizing figures very much so there's a lot going on there but I but it's it's a wild event yeah I met this guy at the hot dog eating contest who is like this 90 year old photographer who's like lived in the same apartment for 100 years and like took this famous picture of Eisenhower.

20:59And then I just spent the day with him and I was like, oh, what a great year. But your book is amazing. You cover all these stories. And I have to just step back for a second. And it feels like you've come for hot water hot dogs here in New York City. You've come for them. Oh, I have not. I've not come for. OK, I promise. OK, I'm kidding. I love hot water hot dogs. I grew up as a boiled hot dog head in New England. It is interesting. It's not it's never going to be my first choice, but I'm never going to complain about it. You're great. They're they're filthy. I mean, they're filthy, but I but I love them.

21:30They're good. Let's talk about a couple of the places that you visited, because I think our listeners from around the country and world are fans of of going to have a hot dog. So where should we go? Well, I already mentioned Rutt's Hut. I was kind of I guess this is like somewhat of a spoiler for the book, but there's other stuff. You should just read it anyways. But when I was doing like my preliminary research, everyone's like, Rutz Hut has the best hot dog. And I was like, I'm not like other girls. I won't feel that way. But I did feel that way. It is the best. In Clifton, New Jersey, it's the greatest.

22:03Other ones that stood out to me, really hard to beat the danger dogs outside of the Staples Center. Yeah. I went to WWE Raw a couple weeks ago and then got my danger dog on the way out. Don't never get a hot dog in the stadium. Always get it outside. Oh, yeah. They're always like, I was just there at Now Crypto. It's, you see them everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the best. And you Venmo. And it's just like the experience of a lifetime. There's another place in Virginia called the Texas Tavern, which is one of my favorite confusing things about hot dogs is there's always like, there's the names of the makes are like after states and cities.

22:44but the places that they're famous for is a different city and a different region where it's like you coney dogs are great in detroit and like i love the texas tavern in virginia it's really uh confusing it's just uh the immigration story of our country it's true yeah it's really doesn't stay in one place it's mostly just greek guys moving around and like opening new places oh Oh, my gosh. So true. But yeah, Texas Tavern in Virginia, Atman's in Baltimore, I really love. There's a lot of great people. Yeah. What about in L.A.? I mean, pinks get so much ink. It seems. Yeah, your face just says it all.

23:20I'm anti-pinks. Their hot dogs suck and they have bad politics. Yeah, I was going to say there's probably some alt-right shit going on with pinks. There is a thing where I and this was like a lot of the worker stuff I was researching where there's so like pinks started as like a food court. or a food cart in the, I think, like 30s and 40s. And now they spend so much time trying to legislate food cart owners who are majority immigrants, like out of existence to eliminate competition. And so it's like not just is your hot dog gross, you're also like disrespecting. Your attitude is gross. Yeah, like their business wouldn't be possible without with their current politics.

24:02It's ridiculous. Food to pinks headline here. So I want to ask you, pivoting away from hot dogs, but we will also, we will circle back to food courts because you've written about it. I love it. But you've been staffed on shows in L.A. and you've written for plenty. I just want to talk about food in the writing room or the writer's room. Oh, okay. It's writer's room, right? Not writing room. Writer's room, yeah. Writer's room. So tell me, has there been any good food in writer's rooms that you've worked in? Never. Never. I don't think ever in my whole life has there been. I mean, I guess that there's a lot of I feel like the best you can hope for.

24:36And I think that a lot of writers are like, this is great. It's just like sweet green lunch. We're going to get really. Yeah, it's sweet. Are we talking? This is like basic cable. I mean, what is this? Well, yeah. Keep in mind, I am not in the writers guild because I'm an animation writer and the most disrespected TV writer of all. And so if you get a sweet green lunch, oh, baby, you're like living large. Everything's great. But I don't know. I wrote on my first TV writing job or one of the first ones was on Robot Chicken. And it was my birthday a few days in. So I didn't really know anybody. Awkward.