241: Nils Bernstein

25:16Right. And when they, let's say, ejaculate, shall we? Yeah. Then they become quite scrawny because most of their body is that material. So there's a period where they become – they don't have that sweet glycogen meat and instead it's reproductive material. Then they become shriveled. So generally there's a period where they just don't feel or taste very good and then they become really shriveled and drawn out. But there's ways to – that oyster farmers can manage that process, can affect when and how that annual life cycle takes place. and, you know, mitigate that rigidity that this happens in this month and this happens in this month and whatnot.

26:05And also some of the R rule had to do with the health of the water during warmer months. The R rule being that the oysters should only be eaten in months with R in that. Right. I was going to restate that, but it's clear if you're this far in this podcast, you know you love oysters. There's – yeah. And there's so much – you know, the – virtually any commercially available oyster is farmed. And so oyster farms are – there's testing. There's rules. They're really managing their stocks and their waterways really well. So it's very, very, very uncommon that there's – you're going to get some sort of, you know, red tide poisoning or whatever because all of that is being dealt with.

26:53And the recent, there's been a couple recent oyster poisonings, and they've all been from imported oysters that have been poorly stored, like frozen or that have been not stored at temperature. They have nothing to do with how they were farmed and harvested. The other thing, too, is it's really hard to eat a bad oyster, right? That's like a myth that you're going to like get sick from like, because like it's very uncommon. And also it'd be a horrible smell. Yeah, it's really uncommon. And when it happens again, it's from like some oyster product that has gotten to you in a bad way. If you're just like eating oysters at a reliable place or at a farm or whatever, you know, they they know they're not serving you.

27:37You know, like one bad oyster will ruin the whole, you know, you can smell it from a mile away. I mean, it's like, you know, you something dies in your garage. It's like that's kind of smell versus that like no smell. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm sick from the oysters. Yeah, exactly. It might stick from the champagne, yo. You know, you're shucking it and it's being shucked or being shucked for you or whatever. And so you know in that moment, you know, you're generally getting handed something that, you know, has been vetted, so to speak. I want to ask you about oysters around the world.

28:05One thing I love about your book is that you're not just focusing on the European-American gaze. I mean you've gone around the world with some of the rest of the world. Oh, yeah, yeah. You write about it in many different places, how oysters are prized throughout the world. And I'd love for your take on maybe a culture that maybe we less recognize in Fuji who love oysters. I think there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, in the U.S., there's five oyster varieties, but there's really two. There's the Pacific oysters and the Atlantic oysters. There's the Kumamoto's, or a different variety, the Olympia's, which are, you know, a bit rare now, and the European flats, which they don't farm very much in the U.S.

28:48but around the world there's a lot of other oyster varieties that are all quite similar sometimes there's ones that people thought were pacific oysters that are actually they've decided to give them a different name because there's something you know genotypically or whatever that they figured out is a little bit different but they're all you know a little similar um but there there is a lot and so the oysters that you find commonly in other countries might not be the same species as we have here. So I would say, I mean, I think Korea is a big oyster-consuming country, as you could speak to. Absolutely, yeah.

29:25I mean, you'll see it with bosom, of course. With boiled pork, there's always a dozen oysters. And they use it, to me, there's a real beauty in Korean consumption of oysters because it's very lusty, you know. They're just like, they know that they embrace the stronger flavors and they know that they can really enhance something, they can both play a background role or a prominent role. It's cool because like huay, like just raw fish there, like it's not like Japanese sashimi where it's, you know, these are fish pulled out of the tank, killed right away. Right. Abalone served right out of the tank.

29:59So it's pretty raw and rigor mortis and chewy. So yeah, there's a lot of that lustiness that I love that word. It's like very in your face at times. Yeah. And it's – they appreciate the variety of flavors, often really strong flavors that an oyster can tolerate, you know. I think Australia is a really great country for oysters. They have the Sydney rock oyster. New Zealand has a rock oyster as well that now they distinguish between the two. They used to kind of lump them both under the same. Yeah. And Australians, it's a delicious oyster. It has – it's meaty. It's a little metallic. It has a really neat texture and flavor.

30:36but it's more just, I mean, I think Australians consume everything with a lot of gusto, but you know, if you're in Australia watching in an oyster growing region, watching the meat oysters, it's like, oh my God, that guy just ate four dozen oysters. Yeah. So there's a real consumption. Yeah. They really love them. They really put them center stage and really appreciate them. I think all over Asia and Southeast Asia, there's a lot of oysters and appreciation for the variety of oysters. And also there's a lot of history in understanding how to maintain oyster beds with not over-harvesting, making sure that you leave enough for the next.

31:13You know, whereas in the U.S. and most of the world, it's just pretty much gone and overfished and it's all farming. Now, I have to ask you, I grew up eating oysters on the west coast of Florida, actually. And so the way that our family ate oysters was with a, on a saltine, with a dollop of either Frank's Red Hot or Tabasco. Yeah. And so that was the way I grew up. Now, I did that once with a friend and they were like horrified. Yeah. So my question for you, Nils, is do you have a perfect way to enjoy an oyster? I think, you know, with Gulf oysters, historically, they tended to have sometimes kind of a muddy or strong flavor.

31:52But that's, those were the wild oysters. Now you're talking about most of the Gulf oysters and southern U.S. oysters are farmed. And so they know exactly what the water is like and they can play into that flavor or play against it or do whatever they want. But you're not harvesting these very old, giant, wild oysters and kind of where it's a crapshoot as to what the texture and flavor is going to be. And that dollop of hot sauce and the saltine really kind of helps. balance that out. I would probably say my favorite is either a little lemon juice or just fresh ground black pepper. Nice. Never have tried that.

32:39Never have tried pepper. I think there's a, people think about oysters, whether it's wine pairing or a minion net or whatever is acidity, acidity, acidity, acidity. And I don't think that's always, I think sometimes acidity, just like sugar, can kind of obscure the flavor. So pepper is a really interesting way that it kind of brings out the flavor of the oyster without covering it up. Without crushing it with like mini-mat, which you get at like Balthazar, which just kind of is sad, you know. But sometimes sweetness can bring out the flavor of an oyster just as well. You have its briny, a little sweetness, balances it out the same way a bit of acidity does.

33:18And for example, the chef Ignacio Matos at his place, Cafe Altro Paradiso, does a white balsamic with oysters that's really brilliant because it's kind of both, right? It's, you know, a little bit of sweetness, a little bit of acidity, but not too much in either direction. And it really, really brings out the flavor of oysters in a great way. Speaking of restaurants, I think a big question I always have is how do you order oysters at a restaurant? Is there I know there's like going to be a lot of song and dance you say. It's very taking your side because I think there's like lots of upselling and obviously there's a lot of margin that comes in with with an oyster service.

33:54How do you do it? You don't really know. You know, when you go to a place, they tell you I just even just yesterday they said, oh, well, let me tell you, our East Coast oysters are from, you know, our Jimmy Jam sweets from, you know, Norwich, Connecticut. kid and our West Coast oysters are, you know, Matt Rodbard delights from Canal, Washington. And, you know, it's like, OK, that does me no good. I have no idea what, you know, and which one do you like better? Oh, they're very different and they're great. They're both terrific. So, you know, and realistically, you're not going to ask how they're stored.

34:27You're not going to ask to see the harvest tag from the bag. You're not going to. Sir Garcon, can you please bring out the tags? So it's really hard. And what I tell people, you know, it's not ideal, but and it's also not always available this way, but order the smallest quantity you can first. Yeah. Just say, hey, I'd love to, you know, we love oysters. We want to order a bunch, but we're just going to get three for now. And then we'll order more later. Love that. Now, are there any super red flags when ordering oysters at a restaurant? Maybe that's written on a menu or behavior from the staff?

35:00Well, I don't want to say this as a rule because sometimes it can be amazing, but happy hour, oyster happy hour, you got to tread carefully with oyster happy hour because it can be a way not to get rid of quote unquote bad oysters, but it's a way to get rid of small oysters, ugly oysters, maybe the previous batch of oysters. You know, it's not always the best. Yeah, the best way. You're not getting the best product in happy hour. But again, like you're not likely going to have sickness caused by a happy hour oyster. No, no, no. Not at all. No. So you just might not be having the optimal. But if they're only a dollar, which leads to my next question.

35:37You can order twice as much. You can order twice as much and you can like maybe do some saltine in Tabasco. But what should like what is a fair price? I mean, I know like there's a lot of factors. Like what should we be paying for oysters? Well, you know, I never want to say what a restaurant should charge because there's a million other factors. You know, I think I would just say that whatever they're charging, what they should be giving you, just as is the case with their salads and steaks and anything else, is the best product possible. So they should really pay attention. And if they know that the oysters are not at their best for whatever reason, then they should either lower the price or not sell them.

36:16they should be as confident and demanding of the quality as they are anything else on their menu. I find that people often just think it's enough that they're selling fresh oysters, but they really should be at their best if they're priced at full price. Is it tough to train staff at a restaurant to shuck and have them serve well? I think so. I mean, I think, you know, there's usually not multiple people shucking necessarily. I mean, really, as long as shucking, you're all right. As long as you're not spilling liquid and having chips of the shell in it, you know, you're probably okay. The quality of the oyster is more important than a beautiful shuck versus a little bit of a rough one.

37:01You don't want the chips in there. But I think it's, you know, it's hard to train a staff in, you know, if you're trying to train servers and how to explain exactly what they're like and why and how they're stored. And, you know, it's just it's a lot to ask. It's tough. And also with the hot kitchen, there's like temperature control. There's always issues. You want to definitely shuck them, you know, close to order. Yeah. Which isn't always ideal. You know, you have you can't you know, they need to be at a certain temperature. And so you don't want to leave them in hot or icy temperatures for too long.

37:35It's really hard, you know, and that's that's why, you know, often the price at a restaurant is very justified. Besides all the other reasons that a restaurant needs to price things the way they do. Oysters do take a lot of attention, but they should be shucked and served properly. They should be in really great condition and all the rest. also leads to my question about oysters at home i feel like your book is a cookbook as much as it is as a history for sure yeah and there's a lot of great recipes and there's ways to cook oysters and there's ways with pasta and there's ways with east asia in mind but i want to just know like i've never done it and i feel like i'm pretty ambitious in the kitchen just something i don't think about why should we rethink like oysters at home well that's something i really want the book to make people think about and encourage people to really buy them and serve them and cook them at home.

38:28I think a big reason is what we were just talking about with restaurant quality. You don't really know until you get it. You're paying three, four dollars for an oyster that may not be the best. At least if you're buying them, it's much cheaper to buy them, whether you're buying them at a fish market or direct from a farm or whatever it is. And you know before you eat or serve them exactly what the quality is. There's no mystery to it. Another thing is you can shuck or you can, from a lot of good, bigger oyster farms, you can buy pre-shucked that are literally shucked into a jar. There's no preservatives or anything.

39:06Or you can just shuck ahead of time. You strain the oyster liquor and then you have this amazing ingredient just ready to go. Cooks fast. It's incredibly delicious and it's actually relatively low labor once everything is shucked. What do you like to do then? I mean, you have a lot of recipes, but is there like a go-to that you feel? I mean, I like omelets personally. That's like my guy. Yeah. Yeah. If you, see, you're a good cook. So oysters and eggs can be tricky because you kind of burn the eggs before the oysters cook or vice versa. But if you're, you know, paying attention, it can be an incredible combination, egg and oyster.

39:41Two ways I'd say that I end up eating oysters a lot at home is one way of steamed just uh oysters on the half shell in a bamboo steamer with a little bit of anything ginger and ponzu or something just drizzled you just cover them steam them five ten minutes later they're hard to overcook um they look beautiful they're really gentle they have a really pure oyster flavor i really like doing that you don't have to turn the oven on. So smart. And I like deep frying. In general lately, I'm really into deep frying for one. But there's something really satisfying once you have, again, the oysters shucked and your sauce is made or whatever.

40:22Oh, my. That you're just dredging. You're getting it in the oil. And a couple minutes later, you know, you have a platter of fried oysters that you did yourself. There's an incredible sense of accomplishment in that. And it's not really that hard. It sounds, especially if you get them shucked for you, it sounds like it actually wouldn't be that hard. Oh, it's nothing. Talk about like an absolute like baller ass move for a dinner party. It's a baller ass move for sure. Yeah, yeah, totally. And also you, you know, if you are shucking yourself, you can shuck ahead of time. Yeah. If you're cooking them, you know, it's not just shuck in the morning and cook them at night.

40:52You know, it's nice. It feels, you know, it's like kneading bread or something. There's something satisfying about shucking oysters. Oh, definitely. And then you have the ingredient prepped and it's quite an easy fried oysters. Yeah, it's a couple. it's a wash in a dredge, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, you toss some flour to get kind of some of the liquidness off and, you know, and I mean, there's a million ways to fry oysters. You do panko, I guess. Many of them in the book. Yeah, right on. And you can also pan fry oysters. They're really, really delicious. Oh, yeah, like a scallop. That sounds hard.

41:23And so you're still breading, dredging, maybe panko, pan fried. Panko's good for pan frying. Yeah. And then you're not even doing the pot of oil that gets people freaked out about deep frying. You're just pan frying like you would fry anything. And you have these crispy, incredible, puffy, crunchy, delicious oysters. They're so good fried. Now let's transition to your wine writing. Okay, yeah. I just want to know, like, you write extensively about wine. And is there a story that you've been working on or are about to publish that you're just super stoked about right now? I think something I'm really excited about in the wine world right now is Mexican wine.

41:59Yeah. I think it's at a – it's kind of at a really important point right now where it's starting to get a lot of attention. A lot of it isn't very good, but a lot of it is really legitimately world-class and delicious. So – Is it focused on Baja? Yeah. About 75 percent of Mexican wine is from Baja. Yeah. They get this – even though it's, you know, in near Ensenada, they get a maritime influence. to the vineyards that brings the temperature down at night and gives it a good separation between the daytime and nighttime temperatures. It can be really good for a variety of grapes. And it's just kind of interesting watching a region kind of start to come into its own.

42:45It's not been that long that they've been really focused on quality over quantity. And it's interesting to see what, you know, young people are experimenting with. There's no rules around wine production there. And so there's a lot of really exciting experiments and just a lot of interesting wine coming out of there. And in other parts of Mexico, they're very high altitude vineyards to obviously mitigate the temperature. So a lot of the highest vineyards in the world are in central Mexico. They're up, you know, as high as 8 ,000 feet. Yeah. Which is insanely higher than almost anywhere else in the world.

43:25So it's interesting. It's just, you know, it's always fun to, it's like the indie rock guy in me, you know, it's like, what's the emerging region? You're always like, you want to be ahead of the curve. You want to, you're trend spotting. And on that note, I want to ask you about like a domestic region. Is there a part of America doing wine that you maybe are like a little more excited about than others? Yeah. I mean, it's a little bit like, well, it's a little bit like Mexico where it's, you know, there's a lot of wine, domestic wine regions outside of Washington, Oregon. and California that are great, but you really have to filter through the shit to get.

44:02Yeah, it's good. It truly is shit too. Yeah. Yeah. You have to filter through it to get to the good stuff, but that doesn't mean there isn't some amazing stuff. I mean, I would say outside of the West Coast, I'd be, I'm really interested in Virginia. Wow. Cool. I've had some good stuff from, well, Finger Lakes, obviously for Riesling, but also some other things as well. Michigan, I've tasted some good stuff from there. I've tasted a lot from Texas, most of it not good, but some of the best non-West Coast domestic wine I've tasted has been from Texas. So it's in there. You just have to really find it.

44:41But I think it's something that's important to think about and promote because it's, well, like oysters, it's a really important U.S. industry historically. and some of the smaller wine regions are bringing back grapes, wine grapes, also so-called hybrid grapes that aren't the venus vinifera grape used for wine, that are bringing back some of these grapes that have historically been used for wine and they're bringing them back and some of those wines are really amazing. So I think it's nice to, it's a way to revisit the country's history from a different perspective. I love that. There's also just great value in America, too.

45:23There is. When you're talking about buying cases or if you have an event or, you know. For sure. Yeah. And sparkling wine, too. And really, you know, talking about value, the way that value doesn't always mean price. You know, you can have something cheap that's not a good value and something expensive that is a good value. That's what I meant. Yeah, totally. It doesn't mean it's cheap. Exactly. But I'd say there's some, you know, some Oregon Chardonnays that are unbelievable values that rival the best white burgundy that, you know, you're buying it. They're not dirt cheap, but you're buying them much more expensively than you might white burgundy.

45:58There's some really serious big reds from Washington that are absolutely amazing quality. there's some more experimental grapes in California and some of the expensive regions of California, but there are these grapes that don't command the same price and that don't cost the winemakers the same price that are also some really great values. So all over the U.S. there's good wine values. Who are you writing for right now? I'm the food editor for Wine Enthusiasts. So doing, you know, a lot of that's food and wine pairing and whatnot. And doing a lot of some cookbook work and hopefully doing more books related to this.

46:41I love it. I can't wait to have you back talk about more books and talk about more band stuff. Is there one band right now that you're just like, I ask. I know. It's my dreaded question because I feel like I'm kind of out of it. But one band that I will say never lets me down, and I like them as much now as I did when they started, is Spoon. Wow. They don't—yeah. Sorry, no comment. Wow. Wow. I mean, that's a good—I mean, they're a good band, but yeah. Oh, man. I'm with them. All of their rollercoaster career, I'm here for all of them. Yeah, Girls Can Tell is still one of my top five albums ever.

47:19Yeah, amazing. I love that album. Chicago at Night, play it still often. There is no better or worse. There's just different. I agree. I like the new Bowling material. I like that band Bowling from Chicago. I like that too, yeah. Good band. I started them recently. I really like it. Good young band. Younger. Let's close by, I want to ask you, if you could have a restaurant name a menu item after you, what would that be? That's a good question. I'd say maybe a fried oyster dish would be amazing. I like that. What do we need to call it, Nils? I would say, oh, what would we call it? Yeah. I thought my name is weird enough that I thought it would warrant the – something that rhymes with Nils, you know, pills, chills, something.

47:59Like chills have to be a cold item. So warrant – that's interesting. I think of diner items, you know. You always think that things that are named after people are in diners. So I think of like an omelet or a club sandwich or something. All right. I like that. Well, Nils Bernstein, thank you so much for joining the Taste Podcast. Thank you. It was really fun.

48:29eliza three things let's do it i'm ready so i think you should start i want to i want you to hear your first of three things yeah i did just say i'm ready so i think i set myself up there okay my first thing is not a new thing it's just a favorite thing which is the chicken sandwich at the fly here in brooklyn have you had it before i haven't um i was talking to grossie pelosi earlier today we were recording an episode soon to Aaron taste and he was talking about the fly big up in it I love the fly I think it's a great restaurant it's a lot of seating they have great drinks it's just like a good place to stop by but their chicken sandwich I actually dream about and I'm not a huge meat eater so when I'm like fixating on a chicken sandwich I feel like that really speaks for it it's a very juicy sandwich awesome it is like I eat it fast because the bread is going to disintegrate I love it so this is a chicken cutlet I'm imagining no it is the fly is rotisserie chicken.

49:19So it's a rotisserie chicken sandwich and the rotisserie chicken has been kind of pulled a little bit, shredded. It is incredibly juicy. There's mayo on it, maybe like a little bit of vegetables, but I always get the green beans and then kind of tuck them into the sandwich. Oh, you're a tucker. You like putting like chips into sandwiches, like green beans into sandwiches, coleslaw. Yeah. I'm a juzzer in general. I feel like when I have multiple components on my table, I'll have a bite as is and then I'm just adding other things because maybe I'm going to unlock something that's even more amazing.

49:49But I went on Friday and just devoured this sandwich and got really excited to be coming back as it gets hotter and I'm just wanting to be satiated. Is that a word? Absolutely satiated. And what's the bread choice here? It's like a crusty roll. So it doesn't get soft right away. But it is the kind of thing that my friend wasn't eating hers right away. And I was like, you should get on that. Yeah, you got to eat. That soggy sandwich, like when the bottom slice is soggy, you can't do that. It's good. You just, you eat it first, you know? Yeah, I love that. I got to check it out. What's your first thing?

50:23This was the week of Becky Shue's Bad Waitress essay on dirt. I feel like everyone, do you get a chance to read it yet? It's open. I started reading it. Yeah, it's long. I just have to say it's great. And I read it twice. And I really think Becca is doing something that Bourdain did when he jumped into the scene and others. in that she is kind of defining something that we all know, the feeling of being in service, this feeling of being a wait staff particularly, and really marinating on some of the big picture things that are happening in restaurant service. And I really don't want to spoil it.

51:03It's not really a spoiler essay kind of thing, but I think in general it's really cool to see someone with such a signature voice break out. and I love Dirt too. I love what they're doing. So I was very happy to see that. Is it the kind of thing like how Bourdain was kind of spilling secrets that people didn't know before or you already knew about it but it's just the way it's being phrased is so fun? Great question. Both in a way, I think that talking about the way she works at, it's not Perkins or Waffle House, I'm forgetting the chain but she worked in a chain restaurant and like working in a chain restaurant was kind of an insight.

51:46But I just think the way that she writes is it's quite funny. It's quite cathartic. And I know she's an editor and writes a lot of fiction. So there's, she's got a long history of writing. I'm gonna definitely check out some of her other articles or essays. This line really stuck with me. I suspect it's easier to teach a waitress to be a writer than an intellectual to be a waiter. I thought that was a great line. Yeah. I think it's a specific set of skills. I see that. I believe that. Yeah. So I'm going to link to that in the show notes. And check out Dirt and check out Becca's work. I really enjoyed it.

52:22What's your next three things? My next thing, I don't think I've talked about shrubs as my three things before. Have I? I don't. I mean, no. Well, I made a shrub this past week. It's shrub season. It's shrub season. Well, you can always make a shrub. Shrub is like essentially you're macerating fruit and then adding vinegar and letting it sit and then you strain it. And then you have this very tangy, sweet because there's the sugar with the fruit concoction. I made a shrub that was rhubarb and mint, which is a recipe that Al Culleton did for Bon Appetit a couple of years back. And Al's a really great beverage director.

52:57And they have a newsletter that I really like called Al's Cocktail Club that's giving drink history. So I was just reading a newsletter and then I was reminded of this shrub recipe. but I've really loved having this rhubarb mint shrub in my fridge. I've been mixing it with seltzer. I think it would be very good with gin or mezcal added if you wanted to spike it. And then also I've been using it to macerate fruit to put on top of yogurt or ice cream. It's kind of, honestly, I think it would be really good in a salad dressing. It's just this like delicious, fruity, tangy thing. Well said, Eliza.

53:28I think shrubs are a way to get rid of fruit basically that's going bad. It's like some way it's like preservation, but it's also creating a new astringent vinegar of sorts or mild vinegar. Right, exactly. And I had written about shrubs for Eater a few years ago and interviewed Al about it. And they had told me about this history of shrubs as this all-American drink in some ways because food preservation, right? You have the harvests coming to an end. You want to be able to have some kind of fruity sweetness later on in the year. Enter the shrub. Yeah, it's great. I've never made them. I actually have written about shrubs for punch as well, but I've never actually made them.

54:03I'm a big fan. I think as somebody that doesn't – I don't drink a lot of soda. If I want to have like a little drink in the summer, it's really fun to have something on hand. And the rhubarb one is very pink, which is also just – Yeah, good color. Yeah, it's great. It's what I want. What's your next one? It's drinks related as well. I was in Chicago at Foxtrot, and I was able to pick up this really great agua fresca called Bowie. Are you familiar with this brand? No. Really cool brand. I looked them up. I hit them up on LinkedIn. I was like, this is a cool brand. Wait, LinkedIn? Yeah, LinkedIn.

54:37Isn't that? I just, yeah, LinkedIn. Not Instagram. No, like LinkedIn is the new blank. I really think LinkedIn is cool. Oh, gotta get Emily Sundberg on this. I know, right? No, I think it's funny. LinkedIn is a weird, like, it's like basically Facebook from 2012 because people actually read articles that you post in your feed and you have like followers and shit and write like long comments with personal opinion definitely not i'm not that no guy you're not like oh this reminds me of when i was in the second grade the teacher changed my life oh my gosh such trolling of linkedin is is appreciated here um so yeah the bowie guys i guess are based in austin um so what i like about it it's really tart it's really tart it's just like so the what i want with um you know a refreshing drink they have three flavors pineapple lime and passion fruit and i just think it's a brand i like the branding if i saw it at like our you know store downstairs that has like 800 different drinks i would be picking bowie wow that's high praise i'll have to keep an eye out for it yeah it's good stuff what's your last one my last one is also something you could get at a bougie grocery store it's these ice cream sandwiches called nightingale is the brand.

55:54Yes, I've heard of this brand. Yeah, they're based in Richmond, Virginia, but they are all over the bodegas where I live in Brooklyn. And they're like a hefty sandwich. The cookies are thick and crumbly. And one of my friends turned me on to them and also said, I slice them into pieces and eat them, which at first I thought was just fussy. But actually, if you try to bite into it, I've had difficulty because the ice cream and the sandwiches are so thick. But if you're slicing it, you can just have little bites. Little bites and that can It actually works fine. So good. I had a miso churro flavor.

56:26Oh, my God. I know. Say less. It's like the perfect flavor. Completely. Those two things together, please. It reminds me of like Cool House when they launched their ice cream sandwiches a little bit of thickness. Right. It is a lot like Cool House, except for it is rectangular. Oh, yeah. Instead of circular. And also, I think that the ice cream is fattier even. Like, it's very luxurious. It's a rich, rich, rich bite. It's a rich bite. But now I can't stop buying them. So look in the freezer section near you. You may also find yourself just looking for nightingale ice cream. I've definitely been on an ice cream journey the past few weeks, and I have to give you a couple updates.

57:03Oh, please. Because we're on the topic. This is like a little diversion. So I tried the Van Leeuwen vegan chocolate bars that I believe are pretty new. They've been out the last six months. Amazing. Wow. Like absolutely amazing. Like texture-wise, Meltpoint, it's like— Comes out of the freezer 30 seconds later. It's like starting to soften in a good way. And then you're like two minutes in and it's like perfect texture and consistency. I love it. It's really good. Do you know what the alt milk is? Yeah, it's a good question. I don't. And then I went to try to buy it again. I couldn't find it. I think it might be oat milk because that's what they do often with the vegan ones.

57:42I think it's oat milk. I'm pretty sure that's right. But I didn't get too much of the oatiness from it. You got the chocolate. Yeah, I got the chocolate. It was really rich. Um, I texted Ben cause now I know him cause he was on the show and he, he, I just was like, this is good. And he was like, yo, like this is our hardest thing to make, which is cool. So I hope to have him back talk about that. Um, you know, they've been doing these little Debbie flavor ice creams. Have you seen this? No. Yeah. So they have, um, Astro Crunch, no Astro, this like, you know what I'm talking about? The Astro Cakes?

58:16No. I like the name already. They have like Nutter Butter as well. Oh, oh my God. I want this. So the one I had, I think, was Astro. I'm totally blanking on it. But it was not great ice cream, but really cool to see this crossover of, like, Little Debbie snack cake and ice cream. Yeah, it seems like a good combo. And then my third journey, thank you for letting me talk about this because I wasn't about to go crazy for Van Leeuwen. But I actually tried the Arizona iced tea, green tea, and honeycomb flavor. That's, like, they're limited right now. Where are you getting all of these, like, niche ice cream drops?

58:49I feel like I'm living in the past. Can I tell you a little secret? Yeah. Walmart. Oh. Have I gone to my Walmart thing? Not to me. Well, off mic maybe, but you live in a place where there is Walmart. There is a Walmart where I live as an aside. Oh, I talked about it with Snackshot. Yeah. With Andrea. Walmart's great. Walmart for baby brands and for finding limited stuff. Walmart is fantastic. Yeah. You know, I had a Reese's Klondike bar from a Walmart the last time I was at one, which was amazing, obviously. But they only sold them in six packs and I just wanted one. That is my. What are you talking about?

59:28What do you mean? They sold they sell Lucy ice cream sandwiches. You need six of them, though. Why would you ever want one? Well, I was leaving. I was in Atlanta. I was leaving. I just wanted a snack for the night. And I was just like, wow, I can't buy just one ice cream. So to contextualize this Walmart drop for those who maybe didn't hear that Andrea interview, It's like Walmart is not like the best store in the world. And I love shopping at my local places, which is what I've always done. But for to my understanding, for like baby brands to get into Walmart is really exciting. And they are willing to take more chances than, say, a Target, definitely Whole Foods.

1:00:04So it's kind of like counterintuitive because you think Walmart is being big and, you know, unwieldy. But it's actually if you go there and walk the aisles, you can find lots of cool specialty food, lots of meat alternatives, lots of gluten-free, et cetera, et cetera. I believe it because you know about all these secret ice cream collabs. Meanwhile, I'm excited to talk about one ice cream bar. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hijack that. No, I love it. I feel like my eyes have been opened. Okay. Do you have a third thing that's not ice cream? I do. And it's back in the beverage category. I am reminded again how much I love this hop seltzer moment.

1:00:42And I know we've talked about in the past. My latest hop seltzer of choice is Langanitas. Langanitas Hoppy Refresher. Like the beer? Yeah, the beer company Langanitas does an N.A. Hoppy Refresher is what they call it. It's really good. Your Midwestern pronunciation of Laganitas is amazing also. I totally butchered Langanitas. Langanitas yeah Langanitas Langanitas yeah Video hop seltzer that's so funny you called me out in my Midwestern accent I'm sorry I was like what are you talking about what is this thing Langanitas Lagunitas Lagunitas hoppy refresher check it out the reason I like it and I've talked about NA in the past but I think it's gonna be the summer of NA definitely gonna happen for sure any beer get your athletic try it drink responsibly it's just a great way to refresh the palate Say you have finished a long meal and you want to go into dessert or if you wanted to start the meal and like you've had some things all day and you want to like start the meal.

1:01:44Great to have this like refresh palette with your longanitas. Yeah. Do you know about how it's made? I'm interested in the sustainability element if these breweries are already using hops in some way, if maybe it's like another product they can add in. Yeah. You're saying that that's something that is happening? Well, I don't know. I'm asking if you know. I've not heard about that. And it makes sense that it would be a way to use hops that aren't being thrown into the beer, but using it in a new way. I think it's just like a beer company wants a new category to make money. Yeah. And like, so there's like maybe a sustainable, like sustainability model.

1:02:19Yeah. I don't know if they would use spent hops. I have no idea how hop tea is used. I love. I like the concept. Yeah. Maybe we should write something. We should just like actually go and answer that question through taste. Yeah, maybe. I do know a company that's making energy bars in the Bay Area using spent grain from breweries. Oh, that's cool. So there is value in the hops after they've been used to make beer, whether or not it's in the hop tea, who could say? Very cool. Thanks for sharing your three things, Eliza. Anytime.

1:02:52This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.