244: Cake Zine

25:15I baked them in my kitchen, but I have never made them in a restaurant context. and I don't really know how they would freeze. I would imagine probably pretty well actually. So they're probably quite scalable. I'm here for it. You know I'm a soft serve summer is what I'm advocating for. Soft serve is definitely my choice too. I like the lava cake though. I'm into it. All right. So let's talk about next issue. There's got to be an idea. Can we break the news on this show what your next issue's theme is and when are you going to be sending out? Yeah. So we think about our themes two per year kind of being counterparts to each other.

25:50So our first year was our cake year with sexy and wicked cake. This year is our idiom year. So right now we have humble pie. And then in the winter, it'll be tough cookie, kind of like our holiday issue. Oh, that's cool. Tough cookie. Yeah. Which, Tanya, do you have any goals for tough cookie? I know that we're in the humble pie state of mind, but. Goals. I'd like to keep incorporating new forms. We had some folks pitch us plays, listicles, comics. I think that every time I get excited to bring on, you know, genres that aren't necessarily represented in literary magazines traditionally. But I think I would love it to be a more international issue as well.

26:31I think that there's a cookie from every culture and I would be interested in stories about cookies, not just based in the U.S., but, you know, far beyond. Are you fans of cookies? Do you like them? I love a cookie. I think that, like, cookies are some of the things I make the most. I know I'm just thinking out loud but I feel like it'd be really interesting to talk to recipe developers maybe about like developing the chocolate chip cookie because there are just so many versions out there and I think if you're adding to that like that's a very crowded field it's a tough cookie to be trying to like advocate a new recipe for so maybe that's a little inside baseball it's why Jesse Shipshik's book is so rad yeah it's like really hard to reinvent the cookie and he did it so many times exactly and when I worked at Bon Appetit the cookie issue that we did for the holidays like every year it was a huge thing about who was going to be developing for it i think that similar to doing the thanksgiving turkey there are some recipes in the american food world that are just uh tough territory to be embarking on especially when there's so many online and a cookie especially a chocolate cookie is one of them okay let's close this is hard but each of you the issue is humble pie your favorite pie eliza you first Key lime.

27:44Have to say it. I love something sour. I love something creamy. I think that because I've had a lot of key lime pie recently, I've been thinking about it. And you know what? It gets better every time. Oh, my God. So follow up. What favorite place to buy a key lime pie? Well, I went to Steve's Authentic in Red Hook recently, which was quite good. But I will say, and this is not just self-promo, but this woman, Caitlin, that does Kate's key lime pie for pickup in New York, her pies are really exceptional. and we're doing this Atlantic Beach Pie collab with her that is also quite good. And she gave me like an entire pie to eat that I just demolished for breakfast over the past week.

28:19So I would say - Week? That's willpower right there. You should see how big the pie was. Okay, it was a big pie. I was like days in our house. It's just me right now. So I've been like taking little slices. Okay. But that pie is my pie. I love that. Tanya, what's your favorite? I'm a simple girl with simple pleasures. I think strawberry rhubarb. Oh my. Yeah, I love like a rye sort of nutty crust with it and then some whipped cream, maybe a little ice cream if I'm feeling fancy. This is a fruit pie fam right here. Yeah, we're big on, you know, it's summer. It's got to think about the fruit pie.

28:52Liza Barbanella and Tonya Bush, thank you so much for joining. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you.

29:26going on these road trips, going to diners, eating a slice of pie or ending their long day at work, like at a counter eating a slice of pie. And I was like, wow, there's like, it seems so like nice and comforting. And like I came, I was born in Singapore and grew up in Hong Kong where like pie was more of a savory thing. It wasn't really a sweet thing. And I was just like, wow, like in America, there's so many different kinds of pie. And all I really want to do is go on a road trip and eat pie at all these different stops. Like it just seemed very romantic to me. American is apple pie. Yep, exactly.

29:58Yeah, I love that. So do you remember the first time you had a sweet pie? I think it was when I was here on vacation. My dad worked in the hotel business, so we came to America a lot like on vacation and stuff when he was working on projects. And I had like an apple pie a la mode. And I was just like, this is the best thing I've ever had. Like the textures, it's like cold and it's hot and like it's flaky and buttery. And like it hits all those notes that you want like in a dessert. And yeah, I've been in love ever since. I love that. And I'm so curious about when you made the transition from loving to eat pie to loving to make pie because I love to eat pie.

30:35But every time I've tried to make pie, it's been mildly traumatizing, like more than any other thing I've tried to make. So I'm curious about like your experience. When did you start baking pie? So I've always really loved baking growing up, like Like baking and cooking has always been like really comforting to me. And I really started delving into the world of pie around like 2015. I had been in the city for about five years and I was feeling really lost and I didn't know really what to do with my life. And my best friend that year bought me the 4 in 20 Blackbirds cookbook. And I love that bakery.

31:09I love Melissa and Emily so much. And I decided, you know what, what if I tried baking my way through this cookbook as a way to just like figure my life out, like Julie and Julia style. But with a pie cookbook. But with a pie cookbook. Yeah. So there were a lot of disgusting, terrible things that happened in the kitchen. You know, like it's so temperamental, but I'm one of those people that like once I decide I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it like full on and I'm not going to give up. And so it was a lot of trial and error, but it was also kind of like taking the Julia Child method where like no fear, right?

31:42Like you're going to make a mistake and you'll get over it and then everything will be OK. And yeah, I baked my way through that cookbook and I realized that in the end, like baking pie is all about like a feeling like a recipe is great when you're making crust. But so many factors come in, right? Like air temperature, how humid it is, like are your hands really warm? Is your butter cold enough? And like I just like settled into the fact that like it might not always be perfect, but at least I'll have a pie in the end. I like that as a life motto and I think that's really true and that hinges on maybe my difficulty with pie is that I do think so much of it is about technique and knowing when things feel right and if you just are like me and you're afraid to mess it up then you're never building that kind of knowledge base so I feel like a challenge where you're baking through the whole pie cookbook is actually a really good way to be just kind of getting familiar with how things should look and feel right and also like another thing is that with pie you could just cover it in ice cream and then all your sins are covered up and everything is fine.

32:43I don't know why I haven't thought of that. You just warm it up. Like anything that's warm with ice cream on it, like it's perfect. People love it. I love that. So this is when you started baking pie. I know that. So we're here to talk about your new cookbook, 50 Pies, 50 States, but that was a project you were doing before the cookbook. So I'm wondering if you could tell me a little bit about the idea behind it and like how it felt when you were first getting started. Yeah. So around 2016, I had kind of exhausted the amount of times that I could reapply for my work visa that I had in the States.

33:14And it came time to really decide, like, should I apply for my permanent residency here? And the company I was working for at the time was very generous in helping me to do so. It's a very, like, long, laborious process. There's a lot of, like, visa interviews and paperwork to do. And I thought, you know what, it'd be really fun to like start a project where I learned more about the country I've chosen to call home and I'm able to give back to the people that have made this place my home. And I'd been baking pie then for like a little over a year. So I was OK at it. And I was like, you know what, it'd be really cool to figure out and learn facts about each state in America through pie because there's little that's more American than pie, only maybe Dolly Parton.

33:59and um and also like pie can be savory or sweet so anything can happen and so I was like okay I'm gonna bake a pie based for each day in America and then I'm gonna give it to that person that I know from that state and the pie would include like some sort of like state fruit um state food or like regional cuisine because everything America has like a state food or a state bird or a state flower. So like the research was kind of like already there. I just had to like kind of take all that information and interpret it to myself. And yeah, that's how the project got started. And like I did it purely just for fun.

34:38And so I had something like to do. And also it's like my grand like rom-com Nancy Meyers, Nora Ephron gesture to my friends to show them how much I love them. Which I just have to say, I recently found out that you have a dog named after Nora Ephron. I do. So you're living this lifestyle to the fullest. Exactly. Exactly. So what states were the first ones that you came up with and what were the hardest ones to come up with? So when I started the project, 50 seemed like an insane number. It seems like a lot to me. It was a lot. So I started a spreadsheet. I am a Virgo. So the spreadsheets come along with me everywhere I go.

35:13The spreadsheet came out. And so it was I wrote down all the states. I wrote down like if they had like a state fruit or a state food and like a regional cuisine. And I only ever thought about the project three pies at a time so that I could focus in on like Alaska, Alabama, and Arkansas. Like those were the three that I was going to think about. I wasn't going to think about any other pie. And so I did them in alphabetical order because that made sense to me. I did have a think where I was like, should I have done them when they entered the union? But that's the most, it's such a jumble. That's like extra credit.

35:47You don't have to do that. We ain't got time. So then I did in alphabetical order. So the first pie I started with was Alabama. And did you have people from all of the states or did you go out and befriend somebody from Alaska because you didn't have one? So I still don't know anybody from Alaska. Well, no one that's like a friend. Yeah. I had a friend that went to Alaska and like lived there for a little while. So the pie went to him. But there are still certain states like I would like to meet someone from North Dakota, Alaska. Where else do I have? No, I have a Kansas. There's still so many that I need to meet people from.

36:25But the best part about this project is I've met more people because of it. Like my roommate, Steph, I met her through this project and she's now one of my best friends and she got the Delaware pie. So it's like kind of like this pie project has brought me so much more like love and light and people in my life that now are my family, which is like kind of the most wonderful part of it. I love that. How did you meet her through the project? So when I first started the project, I did a Kickstarter. And my friend Brian Casper, who got the Wisconsin pie, he did all like my branding and all the really, really wonderful like hand-painted type for like each state.

37:03And when I was doing my Kickstarter, I was like, I got to the Delaware pie and I was like, I don't know anybody from Delaware. And my friend Brian was like, oh, my gosh, my friend Steph is from Delaware. You should meet her. So we started chatting and then she ended up moving to New York and needed a roommate. And at the time, my roommate that I had was moving out. So Steph moved in and yeah, the rest is history. What was in the faded Delaware pie? So Delaware was a peach custard pie because peaches were first planted in the state of Delaware. Wow. So you would think that Georgia would get the peach pie.

37:36Exactly. Exactly. Plot twist. Plot twist. This is such a good testament to your baking that your pie was so good that this person was like, wow, I have to move in so that I can hopefully get more free pie out of the situation. Anybody that has lived with me has eaten a lot of pie in the last few years. Honestly, all of my friends, kudos to them for eating every bing bong pie that's come out of my kitchen. I mean, put me in the rotation if you need other people. Did you think at all about wanting to have a mixture of sweet and savory in the book? Yes. I thought I am a savory person. I'm very salty.

38:10I love savory food. And I also grew up, I was born in Singapore and I grew up in Hong Kong, which are both British colonies. And like for us, it was like all savory pies. It was like meat pie, steak and kidney pie, fish pie. So I knew that I wanted to incorporate savory pies into the book. I wanted there to be like a good balance because I love a savory pie. Me too. I think savory pie is so comforting in a way that few things are. Yes. And I also really liked in the dedication to your book, I think you dedicated it to your grandparents and you were kind of saying what they would probably say to you about it and that your grandma would say, oh, it's not too sweet.

38:46Because I was like just talking with my Asian friends about how that's like the highest compliment you can give a dessert, you know? The highest compliment is it's OK. It's not too sweet. And you're like, did it. There's like a TikTok that was going around recently that someone saying it's not too sweet. And they just like, I don't know why I'm trying to explain a TikTok because it never goes well. But they like Yu-Gi-Oh level up kind of, you know, that's how high of praise the compliment is. 100%. Like if I give if I get my dad like a slice of cake or like a pudding or something and he says it's not too sweet.

39:16Boom. Done. End of day. It's perfect. So now does everyone in your life, are they all pie fans? Everybody's a pie fan. Also, I feel like I've barely met anybody that doesn't like pie. Like pie is one of those things where it's like it's very comforting. It's great to eat. It's good at all times of day. It can be savory. It can be sweet. Like, it's such a wonderful thing. And also, like, even people that, like, have a funny, like, experience with pie where, like, they try baking one and it ended bad. Like, you still laugh about it because, like, at the end of the day, like, pie is so comforting.

39:52Yeah. And just because I wouldn't want to make a pie doesn't mean that I would have a problem eating a pie. Exactly. Exactly. But I am curious, as, you know, I do have this kind of phobia of making pie crust. Like what was your approach when you were developing your recipe? Do you have one base crust that's in all of the recipes in the book? And how did you land in on your version of the perfect pie crust? So I have a base recipe. And then like for all the flavored crust that I do, like it's a riff on that one. And it's based on the 4 in 20 Blackbirds pie crust. Their pie crust is incredible. You know, you can make pie.

40:24You can use different fats for your pie crust. I'm an all butter girl. All butter forever. Love it. I've tried other fats like lard and stuff and it's it tastes good but it's just it's hard it's hard to detach from butter once you've had it and like it was one of those things where it was all trial and error and it was all just like touch and feel and also figuring out like the water like the water ratio like water to vinegar or water to vodka because the vodka or the vinegar like helps when you're cooking it in the oven. like that burns off faster. So then like you get like a better rise and a flakier texture.

41:03And yeah, it's all trial and error. But at the end of the day, it's pie. It's blowing my mind what you just said about vinegar or vodka baking off faster in the oven and creating, I guess, is it the steam? The steam, yeah. The little puff. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I feel like this is one of my other issues with pie is that I don't really understand the chemistry or the approach behind it. And I think like once you can understand why you're doing something, like the process is so much more clear. Right. And like I feel like for me the best way of learning is doing. So it was a lot of doing and then a lot of being like, oh, gosh, like this is way too wet or like this is way too dry.

41:38And like getting that feeling and like looking at the texture made more sense than like you can read something over and over. But if you can't visualize it, it like kind of makes no sense. Yeah, exactly. Did you feel any pressure doing the New York pie recipe because that's where you live? Yes. The most pressure ever. Like, how do you encapsulate like a place like New York State, right? Like there's so many facets to New York. And also it is my home. And most of my friends that are featured in the book like live here in the city. Like since I was 15, like I've wanted to move to New York. I've wanted to live here.

42:15Like there are all these dreams and everything attached to it. Like how do I put it into pie form? and so for New York I ended up for the project making 150 mini pies and I split the pies up between like my yoga studio my tattoo shop like my favorite provision store R &D foods and then I threw a huge party for all my friends and they all got to eat pie and seeing like everybody that I love in New York that's that's made this place my home eating my pie all together It was so, so special. And the pie I did for New York was, of course, an apple pie. But I was like, how can I make it special? And one of the first memories I have of being in the city was we were here on a business trip with my dad.

43:02And we went to one of his friends' houses. And they had an Entenmann's coffee cake on the table. And it was like the smell of coffee, the Entenmann's coffee cake. And I just remembered that, like, thick crumb on top, the, like, thick crumble. And I was like, I want to emulate that thick crumb onto an apple pie. And so like that's what I use as like the topping on the pie. That sounds so good. Also, I feel emotional thinking about like everyone at the tattoo shop and the yoga studio getting to eat your pies because I feel like they get to understand more about you as well, right? Exactly. And it's also like, you know, New York is not the easiest place to live.

43:42It's very, very hard to go through day to day being in the city. You are like one tiny aunt in like a sea of other people. And you have these like checkpoints in your life where you're like, I know I'm going to see this person where I get coffee. Or I know like I'm going to see these people when I do yoga. I know I'm like this is like this is like my bodega guy. You know, like you're like these are your people. And like those people, like your friends, play as much of a role in making this place comforting and wonderful. So why not give them a slice of the pie? I like that. A literal slice of the pie.

44:12Yeah, exactly. And also I think there's a reputation that New Yorkers are not that friendly, which I have found that the opposite is true. I think like if you're in the public space, if I'm taking the subway, I'm commuting just like I would be in my car. So I'm not as apt to talk to somebody. But in general, I think that there is such a like community vibe of living in New York that being able to share those pies with people is kind of celebrating and playing into. 100%. Yeah. And were the mini pies the apple crumb that you were talking about or were they a different recipe? Yeah, they were the apple crumb.

44:40But in my cookbook that's coming out, I also do a version of the recipe where it's just one pie. So you don't have to eat. So you don't have to make 150 mini ones. Yeah. What's the biggest challenge with doing mini pies? I would say just timing. Like, and everybody's like, oh, make it mini, make it mini. It's so much harder to make things small because it's the same amount of labor to make the big thing just smaller. So it's like that was harder. And also, like, I wanted the textures all to be right, like the ratio I had to get right. Because, like, with a 10-inch pie, like, it's kind of like you know the ratio is going to be fine.

45:17Like, between the filling and the topping, you kind of have an idea because you've done it many times before. But for a mini one, yeah, you got to get it right in one bite, you know? Yeah, and you have to be, like, doing all the little crusts and then timing them in the oven right. It sounds like a huge pain. I mean, when I baked the 150, I baked them in a few batches and every single surface in my Brooklyn apartment was covered in a mini pie, like cooling on a cooling rack. Oh, my God. All those like cartoon Mickey Mouses out there, like wafting on the fumes of all of those pies. Seriously. So I want to talk a little bit about the recipe that you made for the upcoming issue of Cake Z and Humble Pie, which is a spam Misubi pie.

45:59What was the inspiration behind that? Yeah. So when when Humble Pie like came to be and I was like, oh, my gosh, like, what could I do? What could I research? The first thing that came to mind was spam. So I grew up in Singapore and Hong Kong and spam is a big part of our food there, as it is in Hawaii and Korea. And the common denominator there is that spam made it over there because of war and because of America and GIs bringing spam over. as like during like depression in sense of like not enough food and it's like a canned product that like goes really far and it's cheap but what all these cultures have done is taken spam and like made it their own with like Korean army stew or spam musubi or like we have like in Hong Kong we've got like macaroni soup that has like spam in it and so I was like at the end of the day isn't spam like the most American food ever?

46:58And isn't Korean army stew just as American as apple pie? And spam musubi is just like that as well. And so how fun would it be to make spam musubi into pie form? Like it's kind of like a play on what is the most American pie. Yeah, I love that. And I'm wondering if you can walk through like what are all the components of the pie? Because it's the sort of pie that when you slice into it, it has a showstopping moment. Yeah. So I was like, how can I make, how can I pay homage to a Spam Usubi in pie form? So I knew I wanted like a nori flavored crust, like little bits of seaweed, just that savory briny in the all butter crust.

47:38And then it has the rice, the cooked Spam in the sweet soy, and then more rice and then furikake on top. And then it's served with Kewpie mayo. So you get all the good textures plus the extra crunch of the pie crust. It's also like a very effective way. It's very portable. Like the slice holds together so well. I mean, Spambasubi is very portable as well, but I feel like this is a picnic pie in a true sense. Oh, yes. You can definitely hold it in your hands. And another fun thing I did with the pie was, you know, every good American pie has like a beautiful lattice on top. And I was like, how can I emulate that?

48:13And so I cut strips of seaweed sheets of nori sheets and made a lattice out of that. So again, like another play on like what is American. Yeah, I like that too. Did you have a moment when you were thinking, oh, I don't know if I should be putting like carbs into carbs? Never. Never? No, I'm not afraid of a double carb or triple carb moment. I mean, you shouldn't. And it's not that different than like a chicken pot pie that has potatoes in it. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's definitely more rice. But But I think, you know, when we were photographing all the pies for the magazine, we had some friends come by and eat them afterwards.

48:49And the Spam Musubi pie was just like this moment of pure delight for people when they saw it. I think it was it's such a fun idea of like combining all these different things that people love and something that's instantly recognizable in both of those ways. Right. And it's kind of that's the best part, I think, about pie is that it's just a circle. Like in true reality, it's just a circle. It's a blank canvas. And like it can be anything you want it to be, just like your life in America and like what you're doing as a person. Like you can do whatever you want. You can be whatever you want. You just have to like think about it in a different way and look at it in a different perspective.

49:25And that's like kind of how I approach baking pie. Yeah, I love that. And I also think it speaks to the way that spam has been repurposed in so many different communities as well. right that you can look at something and say this is foreign and it's something that like maybe not everybody likes but that it can be a cornerstone of all of these different dishes and so beloved that like you literally have a spam sticker on your water bottle on the table right now exactly yeah it's just a rectangular can of meat like tasty salty meat and you can take that and make it whatever you want to be you know it's great spam's the best we're getting so many inspirational quotes out of this right now i'm gonna go like embroider a bunch of pillowcases and sell them on Etsy.

50:05I love that. I love that. So I'm curious, you know, you've done all these different pies. We've talked a lot about apple pie being the most iconic version, maybe. If you could have your dream world, what would be like an underrated pie that would be just as ubiquitous as apple pie? So, you know, what's the pie that no one really talks about, but I am obsessed with, is the Atlantic beach pie. I'm so excited you said this. Keep going. I'll tell you after. I am obsessed with the Atlantic Beach Pie. I think it is so delicious, mainly because I love any dessert that's citrus based. Yeah, walk me through the components.

50:39OK, so an Atlantic Beach Pie was developed because it was like a dessert that you could eat after eating a lot of seafood. I believe in South Carolina. And so it's a saltine crust with like a lemon lime custard filling and either a meringue or a whipped cream top. I love a whipped cream top over a meringue top. But yeah, I just think it is the perfect pie like texture wise, like eating in the summer, honestly, also eating in the winter. But yeah, the saltine crust is kind of a game changer. OK, I'm so happy that you said this because Kate Zine is doing a collab with Kate's Key Lime Pie. Have you had this before?

51:16No. This is like a really great Key Lime Pie kind of only baker in the city. There's a lot of pop ups and we're doing a collab pie flavor and it's an Atlantic Beach pie. Oh my God, that's incredible. Like mini Atlantic beach pies because the theme of the issue is humble pie and the saltine crust just kind of like speaks this idea of elevating humble ingredients. So we're going to have them as a pop up. I think by the time this podcast comes out, the pop up pickup will be over. But at the humble pie launch party, we're going to have the little mini Atlantic beach pies available. So I'm like so happy.

51:47Oh, my God. That's amazing. Yeah, I love I love an Atlantic beach pie. Everybody go get one at the pop up if you can. Like they're so delicious. So delicious. And also like a saltine crust, I think, doesn't really get its due in the same way that, you know, graham cracker crust is getting all of the glory. No. And also, it's so nice to just have saltines around after you make the crust. So like, yeah. In case you get sick. In case you get sick or if you need a quick snack. Yeah. Knock on wood. Yeah, seriously. That's so fun. So, OK, we're talking a lot about pie. I have a question for you, but your answer does not have to be pie.

52:19But if you wanted to, it could be, which is if you could have a menu item named after you anywhere. So at like a bar or an ice cream shop or a sandwich shop or maybe a pie bakery, what would it be and what would be in it? This is a really tough question. You could do a pie answer and a non-pie answer if that helps. I feel like the first thing that came to mind would be it would be so nice to have like a bagel sandwich named after you, like based on your bagel order. Yeah. So in my cookbook for the pie, I did a few bonus pies to the 50 pies that kind of like explain to you like how I got here in the first place.

52:58And there's a pie dedicated to Brooklyn, which is my home where I live. And it is based on my bagel order, which is a poppy seed bagel toasted with lox, scallion cream cheese, sliced onions. And then I'll go home and add thinly sliced lemons to it. Whoa. Oh, because like the bitter rind of the lemons. And this is something I learned from my best friend, Lauren's mom, Joanne. Like I learned it from her and it just like it takes it to the next level. So it'd be really nice to have that as my like sandwich at my bagel shop named after me. And I'd probably call it the break the bank. And then the second version of that is when I'm like a little too poor to afford it when you can't get the fresh locks.

53:40It's just the locks spread. But everything else is the same. Yeah. I love the idea of taking home a bagel and adding things to it. I'll do that in the summer if I have like good tomatoes for the farmer's market because the bagel shop tomatoes are not the best. But I love that order and I love it in pie form as well. I feel like, yeah, like that would be a fun thing to like and also like such an iconic thing. Like your bagel shop like has something that's like yours. Yeah. The Stacey also is just like because you can be the Stacey. I can be the Stacey. Wait, so just the pie version. What is in the pie version?

54:12So the pie version is a poppy seed pie crust, and then it's a scallion like quiche center, like egg-based center. And then the topping is the lemons, the fresh lox, and sliced onions. Beautiful. Then sliced onions, yeah. I think you have to say a pie. I know. I'm sorry. I know. A pie is hard. Honestly, it would be fun to have like a pandan custard pie named after me. um so pandan is a flavor that's like very common in singapore and it's kind of this beautiful like coconutty floral fragrant yeah it's like grassy also in a cool way very herbaceous and the color that comes from a pandan leaf is like this beautiful green like a bright bright green and it'd be so fun to have like a pandan custard pie with like a konguan like um biscuit crust So Kongwan is this like big biscuit company in Singapore.

55:08And I used to eat a lot of Kongwan biscuits growing up, mainly because my grandpa would give me the biscuits. So I would stop talking because I would just want to talk to him all the time. My grandpa, I love him. I love him so much. He's since passed. But like he lived in Singapore and I lived in Hong Kong. Whenever I went back to Singapore, I would just want to tell him all the hot goss, all the hot toddler goss. And I would just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. And so he would just feed me these biscuits so that I would shut up. So that's going to be your pie, those biscuits with a pandan custard?

55:41That sounds delicious. Well, I hope all of these become pies. I think you probably deserve a break from making pies after so many. But when the spirit moves you, I hope that maybe you make that one and I get to come try it. Yes, I will for you, for sure. Well, thank you so much for coming by. This was so fun. Thank you. This was truly the best. I had the best time.

56:05This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.