246: Lionel Boyce

0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. It's like 600 shows on the air. And it's not like there's like a Brad Pitt attached to the show. So it's not like you instantly have a reason to watch it. So you're like, yo, I believe it was a great show, but I didn't know that people would find it as fast as they did.

0:52This is Taste. I'm your host, Eliza Barbanel.

0:59we all love the bear which means we all love lionel boyce the multi-talented writer slash actor slash former odd future members sweet truly hilarious depiction of marcus a middling line cook turned burgeoning pastry chef stole hearts and laughs in season one the new season streaming now pushes him into further culinary and comedic heights we're thrilled to have him on the podcast to talk about all of it i hope you enjoy

1:32this is taste lionel boyce thank you so much for coming on the podcast yeah of course thank you guys for having me we're happy to talk to you we're happy to talk about the new season of the bear it was a favorite i think among everybody but especially among food people so there's a lot of fun things to dig into and to start i'm curious to know a little bit about your own personal relationship and background with cooking and baking. Are you a baker? No, I wasn't a baker before the show at all. I mean, I would cook a little bit just to like make food. When I was a kid, I baked a little bit because I was obsessed with like box yellow cake.

2:09And I remember my mom used to make the cakes. And it was a certain point where I started getting in trouble because she would make a cake and I'll eat it in like one or two days. I just keep cutting slices and going back. And then eventually I'll just go in there with a fork and just start chipping away so we're getting a lot of trouble and she stopped making cakes and I remember like in third grade I was like well I need these cakes still so I like learned how to make box cake just so I can like eat it I would like get a few bucks save it up go buy it and just make the cake so that but so that it was like that little baking and then um yeah when we started doing the show I was like very nervous because I was like I don't know how to bake.

2:48I've never really like made brands or done any of this, uh, like pretty illiterate in the space. And they had given me books and stuff. And they, I was fortunate enough to like go in, like before we shot the pilot, I got to observe a day at Tarteen in Los Angeles and just like watch, just to see, this is what this world is like and just talk to people and stuff. And I was very much just like, well, yeah, this is still a foreign language. And, but I got a sense and understanding of at least a little bit. And I would try to practice at home. Like they gave me like certain books and I was just like, let me just try to make this stuff and was failing horribly, but I was having a good time.

3:24And when we did season one, I, before we did season one, I got to stage at Heart Baggery in Copenhagen. And that was really where I was just like, I learned and got the hang of things where they were, they were surprised because it was like, you know a lot a lot of times people come in they'll pick it up and there was like I was like I remember Richard Hart said he's like yeah I was honestly I like told him I was like two weeks is not enough he's not gonna learn shit but and they were like so impressed that I was able to like pick up the basic like fundamentals of like hand movement and how to like do there's still a lot I couldn't do but it was like I can like shape and by the end of it I was like making a few of the easier bread start to finish.

4:06Yeah. I was going to say in the new season, you're shaping loaves and there is so much on your hands and that's something that you can't really fake. You know, so much of faking is instinct and just knowing how to do the things. Yeah. And it's, it's a very physical thing. And it like, it clicked in my mind in, in a sense of, um, I was like, I related it to sports. It reminded me where it's like, Oh, it's just like, when you break it down, it's like these movements, like create this thing. It's like, they did a good job of reminding me, don't look at the results, look at the risk, look at the things that create the result.

4:37And then you'll find how it fits for your own body. And it's a lot of, that's like where I learned a lot, like the more comfortable you get, it's like the way you do it changes and shifts and molds your body where Courtney Storer, our culinary producer was someone who I like work with a lot too. And like talk when she would always remind me like, yeah, like do it, but like, you know, like do it like, like just however it feels right, rather than how we're telling you to do it and stuff like that. So that, I think, helped a lot because I grew up playing sports. So it just helped me find the physical way into it and started working.

5:09Yeah, that makes sense. And I feel like it connects to Marcus as a character a lot because he also has this sports background and is talking about the movement of things. Is that an intentional connection? Was that part of the character based on you? I think it helped because I remember Chris texted me when he was writing. He was like, did you play football too? Or am I making that? I was like, yeah, I did. And so then I think he was just like, oh, yeah, I was already thinking this thing. And it's like it works out. And I think he was like, well, what position you play? Because then I'll just make it the position you play.

5:37And I was like, yeah, I played linebacker. I really played all positions, but that was like my main position. But, yeah, I think definitely it is. I'm sure it's the same thing where it's like very physical and it's like in his mind in that way. Yeah, that makes sense. Another connection I'm curious about, you know, one of my favorite parts of the first season is this quest that Marcus goes on to make the perfect donut. are you a donut eater? And does the way that you look at donuts change now that you have this whole connection to them? Absolutely. I'm a donut eater. I'm a lover of donuts. I've always have been.

6:10Who isn't, to be honest. They're so good. Yeah. Serial killers. We don't trust them. No, no. I feel like donuts are like potatoes. They're just universal. It's like, there's no, like if you don't like some form of like it's like insane it's just simple um it's just sweet bread but yeah I that was great for me because I have always loved donuts so it gave me an excuse to like lean into like I can justify why I'm going around going to eat some donuts I'll absolutely take this and run with it and I'm born and raised in LA and I lived out here so I was like well I need to I need to do research I guess and so I like made a list of the best donut places in Los Angeles and spent some time just driving around trying them and just seeing which ones I like and love and stuff and then also from the show I like learn you know you don't think about the difference between the cake and yeast donut and all these like things and then like the higher end ones and I had more of appreciation for like there was a spot like down in Carlsbad yeah I drove all the way down like near San Diego to try a donut it was this place called the goods that had incredible donuts but it was like uh it was like a higher end spot where it was like more boutique and but like they were using like um different kinds of like chocolates and stuff but they were like still making it like taste just as good as like randy's donuts or like random insert random donut shop and so yeah it's like they were there was approaching it in the higher end way without making it pretentious and like showing the need like what's not evil in front of it whereas it's like this I need you to taste the elevations just like no I want you to taste the flavor but made with like quality ingredients you know I'm from LA also and I think LA is like the donut capital of the country there's so many good donut places there so I'm curious like where else you went on your list if you remember any other ones yeah I want to I think is it called donut king and glendora because yeah the strawberry ones and like the seasonal ones I tried those oh the donut man They're kind of like stuffed donuts.

8:12Yeah, those are crazy. Yeah, Donut Man, not Donut King. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, out in Glendora, I drove over there, which is a part of LA I've never been to. And then, well, I mean, Randy's is my favorite. That was when I grew up in Inglewood, so that was the one behind me. Still love the regular chocolate-raised donut. SK Donuts is incredible. I love that they have great cake donuts. I love just the regular cake donuts and the croissant donut's good and their regular glaze is good. Obviously, it's Krispy Kreme. It's just still good. If the sign's on and it says that they're hot out of the oven.

8:50In high school, me and my friends loved it. So we would always want the hot one. So I used to just call it and then I learned they got time. It was like, hey, just so you know, it's at five o 'clock and nine o 'clock every day. That's when their hot sign is on. So that's when I would go. They gave you the schedule. That's how you know it's real. Yeah. Changed my life. Changed everything. I went down to Carlsbad. There was a couple of other ones. I'm blanking on names. Like one in Chatsworth. I'm forgetting the name. But that's the thing where it's like they're always, it's like in strip malls.

9:22And it's just so, you're right, so many of them. And I remember I watched that. The Only King is the name of the documentary. I think that's where I got that name from. And I remember I watched that too. And I was like, just learning about the history of it. I was like, wow, that's cool. I didn't know the pink box was just born out of necessity. Like, oh, this is just cheaper. Like, and that's how the best things are done anyway. But yeah. Yeah, that's a great documentary. That's a great donut list. It's making me wish that I had a donut right now. You know, the first - What's your favorite donut in the city?

9:49And I go to DK Donuts. Is that what you mean by SK on like Wilshire on the West Side? Maybe it's San Juan. No, no, I have DK Donuts. SK Donuts is by the Grove on 3rd. I used to love Stan's Donuts in Westwood, but they closed. But that was my favorite. They did that like peanut butter banana stuffed donut classic. I never had that. I got to try that one. I did like Sidecar, too. Sidecar is good. Well, you know, the original Stan's Donuts in L.A. is closed, but they franchised it to one guy in Chicago. So the next time you're in Chicago in, I think, Wicker Park, there's a Stan's Donuts there and they do the chocolate like peanut butter banana flavor that I love, which is kind of amazing.

10:29Well, now I have to advocate extremely hard for season three just so I can go out and try this donut. I'm like, this needs to happen. I'll write some letters every day. I believe in it. And I feel like whether you're in Chicago or in L.A., you must just be getting a crazy reception when you go to a restaurant because the show is so beloved in the restaurant community. Are people sending out dishes and things? What's it like? Yeah, that has happened. It's like my wildest dreams have come true. where I can get food at a restaurant. But yeah, it's cool because we made something that means something to people across the board, but especially in the restaurants where they come out and they'll talk to you.

11:09Like it happens all the time. It happens, not all the time. I don't want to say it happens all the time. It happens here and there. I was at a restaurant once and it was like a taco. So I was at Detroit Tacos downtown and the guy working there, he like, I ordered and sat down and then he brought the food. I was like, you know, I didn't even realize it was you. And then we just had like a cool conversation. And then he was like, you know, I was like almost done for the day and I didn't feel like cooking, but you got me inspired. I want to just make you something that I like make off in my spare time.

11:38So he went back in, like made this delicious, like quesadilla situation that was like incredible. And but yes, like that to me, I was like, it's cool that you found because I know what it's like to have a passion. So I want to just talk about it and share it. So like they found someone like the show got them excited enough to be like, oh, yeah, I could talk about it. to you about this. And also, I want you to see what I like. I'm like, I'm inside it and I want to share this thing that I'm like just down for fun with you. Yeah, I love that. I feel like as an actor, that must be so flattering. And also the fact that it's a food show and you're getting like great treatment at restaurants is just like icing on the cake level.

12:14Like when you were shooting, did you think that the show is going to be well received by people, especially in the restaurant industry? No, I didn't know. For like, it's like a few reasons. Like, number one, I know like the food world is like, it's like anything when it's like very specific. It's like, you know, like I know from experience of like coming from like being around like street world, streetwear world, where like you see people make movies about like that, like culture, like skating, all that stuff. And you're like, oh, this is like, they're doing it. They're just making a movie. this is not specific or real and so i was like very like i know that's how if this isn't done right it can like land on the same in the same way and i knew chris was smart and i knew everyone involved was like his sister courtney story courtney store and maddie matheson they're like from that world and they live in that world still so i trusted like they'll do this in a specific way and they were it was very instrumental where they're like saying do this don't do this nobody does this for real like don't drink out of this cup like put the water in deli in deli or whatever and so it's like those specific details are the things that make it authentic and um but yeah but that's so that was on one hand and then on the other hand just in tv in general it's like so many shows come out that we love that like you're telling everyone to watch and it's like no there's so many things it takes it's like 600 shows on the air like who's and it's not like there's like a Brad Pitt attached to the show.

13:41So it's not like you instantly have a reason to watch it. So you're like, you know, I believe it was a great show, but I didn't know that people would find it as fast as they did. Yeah, I feel like it makes sense you would answer that way. And obviously you never probably go in thinking, oh, this is going to be the biggest hit ever. But going into season two, knowing that there was this excitement behind it, did you approach your character or anything any differently? Or was it just kind of like back to set, back to work? I try my best just to go back to set, back to set, back to work, because all of those, again, like I had to like remind myself because so much going into it.

14:18You're like, wow, like I've never been a part of something on the inside where it's like a hit, a sensation in this way. And so I'm like, I wonder, go back. What would it be like? How would it feel? And all these things. I have so many questions when I got there. I like and I try to remind myself, like I've been around like I've seen with friends, like seeing like some of my closest friends like musicians so I've got to see like you know that happened and like I was fortunate to have like conversations but I was like that's the thing the way to create is to eliminate all of those things that don't matter you don't you don't you had you weren't responsible for the reception of the show you only can make the thing you don't know how people respond you have no control over that so if you try to control that is when it's like you're like going operating from the wrong place and it no longer rings true so you try your best to like kicked that to the curb.

15:04And I think getting to set, it was like even easier for that to happen because everyone else was already in that mindset. And it just felt like we picked up three days from where we left off at making the show. It's just like, oh yeah, like, hey, how you doing? Everyone's still excited. It felt small again. And it felt like none of that stuff mattered. And also it probably helps that you're filming in Chicago, right? So you're going like back to this place. What's it like for you being in Chicago? Do you have spots that you go to or are you on set too much to really be a regular anywhere? Well, I hope and dream to become a regular at Michael Jordan's Steakhouse.

15:39I only went there once. And it was like empty. I just like the idea of that is so funny to me. And I was just like, yeah, if there's only one place I need to be a regular at. And I went there once and I would like daydream. I'm just like an absurd person. So I would like daydream me being in there and Michael Jordan walks in, sits down, you spark a little conversation, become best friends and just meet at Michael Jordan's Steakhouse once a week. he loves you you get like a booth with your name on it all of that yeah yeah he makes a cameo season three he's like yeah where's market like it's just marcus and michael jordan one whole episode i would watch that let's be real it sounds great it just starts with them playing basketball and he's like you hungry he makes them go i don't know now why i'm like writing this episode in my mind um yeah call call everyone we have it right here yeah um no but like I I didn't really have that much time to like those like we would like go out and eat at places and try restaurants and it was really like Maddie's like really good at like that so whenever I learned I learned early on you can't leave it in my hands because before I knew anybody like when we did the pilot there was a few days I was there by myself and I was just making four choices left and right and then And when I met Matty, I would go eat with him.

16:54So I was like, yeah, this is, why would I not just ride this coattail and get great meals? Because he knows where to go. But yeah, we were going to like get breakfast sandwiches from like Casimo and a lot. Those were great. There was a first spot, I don't know the name of it, that I would go with Matty. That was incredible. It was like a hole in the wall, like a grandma making it. And he's just like, this is amazing. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's like a lot of really good restaurants out there. I wasn't a regular at any because of time, but yeah. Season three, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to talk about some things that happened in season two that are maybe a gentle spoiler.

17:33So if anyone is listening and they haven't watched through the fourth episode, this is your chance to bail. But if you're still with us, you get to go to Copenhagen, which is such a fun food city to shoot there. And it's a really special episode. It's kind of like Marcus's episode and it follows him looking for inspiration and doing all of these things. And he's going to Noma, but also to the bakeries and the street cart hot dogs that are all kind of part of what makes Copenhagen a food city. So I'm curious, like in addition to shooting at these places, like did you get to eat at Noma? Like where else did you go in Copenhagen and what did you think about it as a city?

18:11I love Copenhagen as a city. I've only gone there in the winter. And I want to go back, like, I want to go back in the summer because everyone's like, the city itself in the summer is like the best. Like, you know, you get people, everyone's biking, everyone gets off work. And then, like, you see people getting off work, taking off their suits, jumping in the canal to swim, laying out. And the sun doesn't go down to like 1 a.m. So you're just like drinking. And it's just like that feeling. But it's like a city of, like, form follows function, which I think is really cool. Like, everyone dresses so cool out there.

18:41It's just clean and like, like simple and in a great way. And yeah, the food is incredible everywhere. I did get to go to Noma, which was, yeah, it was, it's an incredible experience. um sir pizza was amazing i went to this ramen place called slurp ramen that has some of the best korean fried chicken there uh sanchez which was really cool because the chef from sanchez is actually from chicago and she was the head pastry chef at i i'm i'm saying this i'm sure everyone here knows i'm like the last person to find all this out but yeah she was she was like telling me that she was like yeah like from chicago went out went there was a pastry chef at noma then left and opened up this restaurant that was like incredible um baraba i went to a lot of places because i was just like like i was like if i'm here i'm go and pullet like the chicken sandwich i got to eat was like just this incredible chicken sandwich or i didn't i think i ate like three of them and i didn't mind it every time like this is just some of the best things one of the best things in my life that's how you know it hits i have to hear more about noma because i've never been before who knows if i'll ever go what did anything really stand out to you when you went there yeah everything stood out i think one of the biggest things that stood out wasn't even the food it just reminded me i was like it's cool getting to see things at the highest level in this way where you get like what your grant grant is complete autonomy like this is a restaurant on like his terms where it's like you see like quentin tarantino gets to make a three-hour movie when like like there's no studio notes saying like hey can you shorten it and so that's what very much that felt like where you like that you don't they give you the menu at the end as a souvenir like hey this is what you ate you don't get you only give them like if you'll die you can't eat this that's the only exception you get um so that was cool and inspiring to see just to see like this is what like creativity and like you can like achieve this in any field um all of the food stood out because it was things that i like would have never eaten on my own and just like seeing like it opens your mind in a in that same way where you're like oh yeah i guess it's not like we're looking at the words and like placing and like exact an expectation or something you have no idea what it is so it just made me more open-minded within food like the first dish out the gate is like deer brain and you're just like just something i would never eat i would have never eaten i told my mom i sent my mom a photo and she's literally like what the fuck is wrong with you you're going out there and losing your mind what are you doing and like it's like you know what I mean I'm like yeah you're right I couldn't understand why you would like that's a very valid thing so it's like but not there's things like that but then there's just like vegetables like regular vegetables that they they like and all these things to you like this is just incredible like you make every single thing taste good yeah that's so powerful to start with deer brains right out the gate they're letting you know like this is what's up this is on our terms Yeah, exactly.

21:35It's like a bold choice. It's like, yeah, he's just like, that's cool to me. That's what's cool. Yeah, it's just like making a strong choice, like making it feel dangerous. You know what I mean? It's not like a safe thing. It's like, yeah, I'm just going to take a risk. That's what you want to see within art and stuff. It's just like someone making things feel dangerous. Definitely. And I think that that, to me, connects to kind of this journey that Marcus is going on when he goes to Copenhagen. And he's learning how to use tweezers and how to make a quenelle and all of these kind of like fine dining things that weren't part of his repertoire before.

22:10So I'm curious, like, what's the quenelle technique? Because it looks like you're nailing it on the show. Well, you know, it's funny. That was a thing me and Will were like talking about before because I knew that that was in the script. So I was like, I was like, this is a thing that's like really hard to do. And I, it's like, go back to the thing where it's like, if, if, if I can't do this, if you see a hand, like you have to be able to do it. Like, you know, it can't be like a text shot on a hand of someone doing this. And you're like, yeah, he didn't actually do this. You can, so you want it to like be able to do it for real.

22:41And so I was like, practice that a lot until the, like it made sense and I was able to get it. And then same thing with like, well, when he got there, he was like, dude, like freaking out about this thing. And so we were like practice. We just kept practicing the whole time. when like practicing between takes and I was so jealous because he got a perfect one on camera first go I was like I said I was like I feel like you're gonna just get a actual perfect one or not and he didn't I was like dude and then I was like I'd been doing much better ones like before that like and when I got there it wasn't working for a while then I finally like got one but I think that was also like it was great because it was real and it felt like yeah this is a person like you're not gonna like come out the gate with like a perfect swoop although I was hoping and wishing I did.

23:25No, but I think that's what's so beautiful about that episode also is that, you know, like at first he's trying to place the slivered almond perfectly on the dessert and it's the self-doubt that's keeping him from doing it. And it's the like confidence and also the practice that gets you there. And I think that like, that is so true in all kinds of art and especially in food that you're just going to have to fuck up and not have a perfect quenelle. And then now, like, who knows, maybe you're quenelling like everything in your fridge when people come over just to show that you can oh absolutely 100 if you don't think that's what i'm doing that's the only thing i'm doing foods that don't need to be is what i'm just gonna get out of hand i don't know quenelle donuts yeah um but yeah no like i think definitely that is true where people people quit before they get good people don't like people are afraid of like sucking it's like you have to suck before you can get good and people quit when before they suck or when they start to suck yeah yeah i feel like that makes a lot of sense so because you have a music background i have to ask you like what's your music that you're listening to when you're cooking these days what should i be listening to when i'm cooking um i'm like always all over the place i'll like have songs that's like of the week but i usually i like what i do like and it was like actually cool when i did get the stars out in um in copernicus because it's like over in europe they love ncs radio so i was Like, it's easy.

24:47It's like whenever I need new music, I like there's like a few shows I listen to on there where you just like I know I trust them. And this will give me like some stuff so I can like hear a few songs, take this and like dive into this person and have like 10 new songs to listen to for like another week or so. So it's like it just literally depends on the week. Like this past week, I've only been listening to one song, actually, because it was in an episode. So it was in episode three, Sydney's episode, there was a squeeze song, Goodbye Girl, that I like never heard before. And it's like literally the only song I've been listening to nonstop.

25:21Like there's three different versions of the song. And I've been just going in between the three different versions. I like that. You're mixing it up, but it's also just all one song still. I feel like that's the right headspace with cooking is I always do albums because I know like it's one vibe. And also I can kind of see how time is passing a little bit. You know, what is what is your so do you have like a go to album? Well, it depends. I think if I'm having a dinner party and I'm cooking and people are coming over, Miseducation of Lauryn Hill is just like a God tier album. So that's always the right vibe.

25:50But today, who knows? I'll let you know. This was so much fun. Thank you so much for coming by the show and congrats on the new season. It's such a fun one. Thank you so much.

26:07This is Taste is hosted by Matt Rodbard and me, Eliza Abarbanel. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things happening.