268: Naama Shefi

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0:31So the country is so tiny, smaller than New Jersey, but it has green hills and the coast and the desert and lush valleys, so it allows to a very rich agricultural experience.

0:52This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbarg.

0:59Today on the show, I have an amazing conversation with Nama Shefi. Nama is the founder of the Jewish Food Society, a nonprofit organization that works to preserve, celebrate, and revitalize Jewish cuisine to build and promote a meaningful connection to Jewish and Israeli culture. On this episode, Nama and I catch up about all things. We talk about Jewish cuisine in America and abroad, and really, we talk about what she's cooking this summer and into fall. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Nama.

1:36Nama Shefi, welcome to the Taste Podcast. Thank you so much. So fun being here. I've wanted to have you on for a while. I've been a huge fan of what you've done at the Jewish Food Society in America, and we'll get into that. But also I was able to visit Asif in Tel Aviv about a month ago. And after that visit, I was like right away on DM. I was like, please come on the show. I want to hear all about it. So tell me, what is Asif and what have you built there, really? Sure. So thank you so much, by the way, that you came to visit us. So Asif is the Culinary Institute of Israel, and it has a few exciting components.

2:11It's not a restaurant, even though we have a restaurant. It's not a library, even though we have a public library, quite interesting with more than 2000s volume. We also have an art gallery with rotating culinary exhibition, a test kitchen and an educational vertical farm. So it's really, you know, it's a lot of things. Yeah. It's just when you walk in, it looks like a restaurant. I mean, it has like a bustling room and it has beautiful food being presented. But then you've got a store there. And to me, and Adina Sussman tipped me off, is like you're getting, you know, zaatar from Janine. You're getting, you know, dairy products from the far north in the Golan.

2:58I love that component. So tell me a little bit more about that store. Yes, it's very important for us to draw attention and really give respect to the people and small producers who are creating this very unique product and to also tell their stories. So Asif, the name in Hebrew, the immediate translation means harvest, but it also means curation in the context of the gallery, collection in the context of the library. But most importantly, Asif Amim means bringing people together, quite literally. And that's really the mission. Yeah. And it does have a sense of community. I witnessed an exhibit about workers' restaurants throughout Israel and the way not just from kibbutz and from the history of the kibbutznik cuisine, but also workers who are migrant workers who've come from other parts of the world to harvest.

3:57And I think totally hearing you about community, there's lots of community in the space. I love it. How did you get the idea for it and how is it funded? So it's funny. The idea, first of all, came during the pandemic. So we created this, we dreamed up this entire project over Zoom. Like, I mean, working with the architects, designers, putting together the library, hiring all, you know, all my team, everything was over Zoom. before I see the space at a restaurant, like actually a really lovely restaurant. It's called Lil' in Bloom 28 with an interesting concept. And when the funder of the project reached out to me and asked me, what do you think we should do in this space?

4:47I thought that Tel Aviv, you know, don't need another restaurant. Like there are so many great restaurants in Tel Aviv. and there is so much interest in the local food culture and for a good reason. And I saw that there is an opportunity to really dream big. And that's what we did. Yeah, you really did dream big because you have a vertical farm, as you mentioned, on the roof. The cookbooks, it's one of the largest collections I would think in Israel for cookbooks. I just think it's one of those things that if you're in Tel Aviv and you want like a taste of the cuisine of Israel, you're going to get it there.

5:27Yes, that was the idea. And again, we are not trying to define what Israeli cuisine is. We're really, we're trying to provide a space for a conversation to experience, to taste, really like to provide literally like a place at the table. And also with the library, you know, it wasn't like my own taste in books or my team's curation. We reached out to many interesting people, you know, chefs, scholars. We really wanted to invite multiple perspectives. So I'm talking about people like Claudia Roden, Anissa Hillow, Sami Tamimi, Dara Goldstein and Adin Zussman. Dina, you got Debra first as your editorial director as well.

6:20Yes. Working in both Vasif and Jewish Food Society, has written much for Taste and Love Debra. Love Debra. Yeah. Let's back up and talk about your life. Growing up on a kibbutz, you're a kibbutznik, which I think is a word that maybe is unfamiliar. What does that word mean and what is life like on a kibbutz growing up for you? So growing up in a kibbutz was pretty idyllic. Honestly, we were walking barefoot for most of our days, picking pomegranates from the trees. You know, when I was 14, I moved to live by myself in what we called youth room. Like literally, you know, all the kids are moving to live without their parents.

7:05So it was pretty nice. But not everything was idyllic. Okay, so I have a lot of questions. My father-in-law, my Abba, is from the kibbutz as well. He's much older and it seems like there's idyllic moments, but it's challenging living on a communal world. You're being separated from a family of 14. Yes, or many times before when you're a baby. Of course, when you're a baby too, young age. Yeah. So, yes, there are many, there are beautiful things and there are more challenging things for sure. Like, you know, we ate all of our meals in the communal dining room. So breakfast, lunch and dinner. And again, the community part was lovely.

7:50The menu. Let's go over it. Less so. Yeah. So it was pretty bland. Really? Mostly Ashkenazi. Yeah. Wow. And food was fuel. You know, stories were divorced from the food. That's interesting because it's, you know, schedule life, you know, stories are passed down repeatedly from the old world, from Europe. And if it's an Ashkenazi route, you would imagine there would be stories about food, but clearly not. No, the food wasn't good. I mean, there were a few exceptions. You know, like in the Chadarochel, of course, there were a few things that were, you know, more exciting. But generally speaking, it really meant, you know, as fuel.

8:40Are we talking about like rice and we're talking about grains? I mean, what is so... So every day, Ed, you know, it was repetitive. Yeah. So we're talking about calf's liver almost every day, fried. That was like the basic... Let that sink in, listener, of a 10-year-old child eating calf's liver every single day. Yes. This is stuffed peppers, macaroni, but not, you know, not in a good way. No one wants macaroni in a bad way. No. Really, the highlight for me as like a four years old was the herring cart. Yeah? Yeah. Because it's not for everyone tastes, you know, I was able to exchange some moments, some stories with the herring man.

9:33You know, this older person who really loved his job and the conversations about this delicacy. Yeah. And I'm sure he came from somewhere in Lithuania or any had stories about the old world. Exactly. So that was like a little corner. But I started to be to get very interested about food outside of the kibbutz. and you need to understand I grew up in the 80s. So we didn't have our own car. We shared 17 Subaru cars in the kibbutz and you really needed a good reason to take one, like to go to the doctor or to see relatives. Yeah, it wasn't like going to the mall and buying, you know, the Buffy Brown single.

10:24No, no. So, but luckily my parents really supported my curiosity and secured a car every time we wanted to go to the Yemeni quarter in Tel Aviv or to the neighboring Arab village. So food really became a way to explore my identity. And see really what Israel was all about. So you end up at Tel Aviv University and you're studying English Lit. And I'd like to get a sense of when you're living in Tel Aviv, how does food explode in your brain? Because clearly your brain is changing and you're seeing the world in front of you of what Israel and an urban Israel has to offer. Sure. So it's actually started earlier for me because I went to this special high school for the arts in Tel Aviv.

11:14So my mom, you know, so I traveled every day to Tel Aviv to study film in high school. Cool. Yeah. Wow. Who were some of the directors that you were really obsessed with while in school? I mean, it was, you know, Godard and all of like a lot of French. French New Wave, yeah. Dogma, a lot of American directors. I grew up with New York in my mind, you know, watching Scorsese and Woody Allen and others, listening to hip hop. So New York was so much on my mind already back then. Yeah. But going back to your question, it was really when I moved to New York that I kind of changed my storytelling medium really from filmmaking to food.

12:10Really? Yeah. What caused the change? Was there a moment? Was there an event? Was there a job that you took that switched over? And then I want to hear a little bit more about some of your early food work. Sure. So it was a few things, but one very, you know, fundamental event happened actually after I moved to New York, but in Israel when I met my husband. And it was the first time I attended a Shabbat dinner at his grandmother's place. And it was very special because, you know, he said, you're going to meet my entire family, 20 people in this tiny little one bedroom apartment outside of Tel Aviv.

12:58And everyone arrived and Nonna made room for all of the guests, all of the family. And I was absolutely taken by her generosity and by all of this really incredible spread of dishes. There were albondigas and like stuffed tomatoes and many types of eggplant salads and many more dishes. but more than the flavors I was taken by the stories behind each of these dishes that really told her life story it's interesting there's a lot of I'm sure examples for listeners out there who maybe their own family is not as food focused and then they enter into a partner a boyfriend girlfriend and you a world opens up to them there's a real food like a food family so to speak and there's a lot of storytelling around the food.

13:55And I've known many who've had a partner or somebody in their life and it's just been an awakening. It sounds like you had a similar situation. Yes, absolutely. And she was old at the time. And it was important for me, again, back with my filmmaking mind to protect her culinary heritage. And, you know, without even knowing it, she planted the seeds for Jewish Food Society. So before I get to the Jewish Food Society and kind of root conversation in America. I want to continue Israel and talk about the country. And I have just a couple of questions for our listeners. When you're visiting Israel for the food in particular, which many of our listeners, they're obsessed with food travel as I am.

14:36Where would you suggest, how would you visit Israel in your words? You start with Tel Aviv because the energy in Tel Aviv, I think it's so captivating and so wild. It is so dope. I think Eliza and I talked about it on a previous episode. It is extremely fun. It is such a queer city. It's like 30 % of residents identify as queer. There's art. There's extremely hot people walking around everywhere. Yeah. The beach, the market, nightlife. So I would spend a few days, observe all of these energies. I, while, when I didn't, you know, after a few days, I would rent a car and go by the coast to Haifa and from there to the Galilee.

15:28And I would go east to the Sea of Galilee and then down to Jerusalem. From Jerusalem, I would go to the Dead Sea. I will experience some of the desert and then back to Tel Aviv. Tel Aviv, beautiful. I mean, I'm just kidding. I want to go back. You should. Now, is there a cuisine or is there a food in Israel? I know it's a broad question, but I just want to get your opinion that maybe we are not writing about in America, we're not seeing. First of all, I feel that people think about Israel as a desert. And I think that's very crucial because while, yes, of course, some of Israel is a desert, We have the climate is so diverse.

16:20So just to give you an example of that, let's imagine we are in Washington Heights and we hop on the subway and we go all the way down with the express train to Canal Street. This distance is similar to the distance between Jerusalem and the Dead Sea. So the country is so tiny, smaller than New Jersey, but it has green hills and the coast and the desert and lush valleys. So it allowed to a very rich agricultural experience to, you know, so winter and summer crops can be grown at the same time. And I think the fact that if you go to the Shook and you'll see all of this, you know, bounty and like this fresh produce, I think that's something that I don't know if people are aware how much of a vegetable forward.

17:23Oh, my gosh, yeah. And not just any vegetables, but cucumbers that taste like the greenest and the freshest that you'll ever have. Or, of course, citrus in the winter, pomegranates. Then you get into the herbs and the herb. I mean, I think I was one of those folks who didn't understand. And my wife, whose father's from there, is telling me that dairy is better than anywhere in the world. And I'm shunning. I'm like, no, no way. Like, you know, I went to college in Wisconsin. It's really good there. But honestly, when you go and the richness of the products, to your point, it's just incredible. Yeah.

17:58So I think that's really, you know, and how important breakfast or, you know, having salad for breakfast. It's just like I don't want to single out one dish. It's just like I feel that, you know, Israeli chefs and cooks really think outside the box. They think outside the box because we don't have a box. Yeah, it's a new place. I mean, the box is barely, you know, dry, you know. And of course, we can't say this conversation with the subtext of it's a place with highly political conversations. And, you know, we could have that conversation now. But I feel like I want to focus on the cuisine. But, you know, it is a new country, right?

18:47And it is hard to define it. Yes. And I think that's what makes it so exciting and interesting to witness like such an exciting cuisine information in front of our eyes. Yeah, it is. Let's move to America because I think the Jewish Food Society addresses an American audience and you founded that as well. I'd like to get a sense of your goal with the Jewish Food Society and how did that come to be? Sure. So the Jewish Food Society is a nonprofit organization and we are building the largest archive of family recipes and the histories that are attached to them. So this is really the core of our work.

19:28And to bring it, to bring this archive to life, we host all sorts of creative public programs. So they could be Passover, seders, they could be pop-up dinners, educational panels, cooking classes, and our flagship event, which is a storytelling event named Schmaltzy. Yep. And there's a podcast as well. We got a link to that in the show notes. Wonderful podcast. It's just really terrific. Really well done. Thank you. Yeah. Highly recommend it. And you just had a big Passover event. It sounds like a big Seder. Yes. A party. A party of 80 people in Chinatown. Sounds great. Now, I'd like to get a sense of what's missing from this Jewish food discourse that we have.

20:16We have a lot of guests who have Jewish identity, who may be religious, who may be not. But I'd like to get a sense from you, what's missing from the conversation, if anything? Still diversity. I truly believe that. And I'll go even before Jewish Food Society. So, you know, when I moved to New York and we talked about it before, I felt that people already assume something about me because I'm Israeli. You know, I used to take my Jewishness for granted when I was in Israel. And then when I moved here, I felt that when people think about Jewish food, they still think about a very narrow perception of Jewish food and then Jewish life.

21:04Usually Ashkenazi, usually old European, usually with a patriarchy kind of centric. Exactly. And Jewish people lived for thousands of years from, you know, all corners of the world in places as far apart as Brazil, Morocco, Poland, Brooklyn, and really created their own micro cuisines that were a result of this constant negotiation between Kashrut and Shabbat and Jewish holidays and the local food traditions. So this cuisine is so diverse and rich and it was important for me to communicate it. When you're looking at these old recipes, these old family recipes, I would imagine they're coming from all over the world.

21:53I'd like to get a sense of a couple recipes that maybe you've published or you've focused on with your work that maybe reflect a type of Jewish cuisine that maybe we're not expecting. Maybe outside of that Euro-centric gaze that we typically get, it gets thrown into sometimes. Sure. And again, there are the recipes. And then what's even more important for me is the histories and like these fabrics of life that are hidden there. So, you know, for Yom Kippur, right? So many people here in America break the fast, if they fast, with bagels and lax or something like that, that is store bought. But last year we featured this Yemenite cook, Yemenite family that serve zom, which is a warm yogurt soup served with chug and saluf, which is a bread.

22:52So this is something that you would never, I think, think about as Jewish food, right? Or you just won't be aware of that. So it's important for us to share these stories. Another example, you know, we all know challah, obviously, the special bread for Shabbat. But there are so many other breads and one in particular just comes to mind because, again, it highlights this beautiful story of a chef, an Ethiopian chef who now runs a restaurant in Harlem called Tzion Cafe. And this woman, BJ Barani, shared with us her story. And it's just incredible. And I don't want, like really short, she's talking about how she left her life in Ethiopia when she was four years old and walked by foot and by horse to Israel over three years.

23:58My goodness, wow. And every Friday night they stopped their very dangerous and challenging journey to baked dabo, the Ethiopian bread for Shabbat. Let's talk about Shabbat a little bit. I mean, that story is, I will link to in the show notes, I'm sure there's an article on your website and I'll link to that. And let's talk about Shabbat because I think Adina Sussman is going to be publishing a book in the fall about Shabbat, about this tradition that happens every Friday night into Saturday night. And I think in Israel, if you're visiting or you're visiting a Jewish community in America, you're going to get a sense that it's a different tradition.

24:36It's really it's a disconnecting. I'd like to get your take on how you celebrate Shabbat and how Shabbat is important to you. Sure. And I can't wait for Adina's book. Adina is beautiful on our board and she's a dear friend. and I love her, like this combination of casualness and knowledge, you know, that she brings. Well said. Nice way to peg Adina. Because there is a casualness and this is Adina Sussman in Love Hour right now, but like she has such kindness and casualness, but then you go into like a real, like just rigorous academic kind of study of things, but she's also cool as hell. Absolutely.

25:10Yeah, my kind of person.

25:15So you described it very well. But again, in Israel, Friday night is Shabbat dinner on Friday. That happens on Friday night is a mandatory event for, you know, most of the people in the country get together with their extended families. So it's like Thanksgiving every week. Yep. So for me, it's kind of similar here. So I'm a New Yorker. I'm a mom. I have, you know, big job. I love going out to restaurants in New York. I have a very hectic kind of, you know, life. But it's very important for me to be home for Shabbat and to enjoy a meal that was made from scratch and to enjoy it with friends that became family.

26:08Yeah. And so that Friday night tradition, does it extend into Saturday as well? At my home, not so much. Right, because you're busy, you've got kids and you've got like gymnastics or whatever going on. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to have that in the calendar every day or every week, a meal at home. It's very cool. And even, you know, it could be a Shabbat picnic. Right. It shouldn't be now like, you know, like a multi-course. No, it doesn't have to be super fancy. Yeah. A few more questions because I really, I want to tap into, back to Tel Aviv. Let's go, let's just go there. I want to hear some restaurants because I feel like it's a city that doesn't get written about as a restaurant city.

26:45Like, you know, there's all the history of Jerusalem nearby, but there's also, you know, you've got Jaffa happening down the road. But like Tel Aviv as a whole is a beautiful restaurant city. I would love to get your take on some of our favorite restaurants and you're going to be heading there soon and you're there often. There are so many.

27:08One place that immediately comes to mind is Ibn Ezra. Oh, my gosh. Have you been there? Yes, I have. So great. What's your take on that? Oh, my gosh. For a kosher restaurant, I mean, it's truly incredible. So you speak first. You tell me what you're going to say. Okay. So, yeah, so it's a meat-focused, happened to be kosher restaurant. Happened to be kosher, right. So Elran, the chef, I feel that if God would know how to cook, it probably would be something similar to the way Elran cooks. It just, I love, you know, the start, right? Like you go there, first of all, it's important to explain the setting.

27:58That again, it's so simple. It's small. It's in the corner of the street. It's kind of in Florentine, but like off to the edge a little bit. Exactly, near Shuklevinski. And just like this variety of flavors. So at the beginning you get like all like tiny tastes of this cooked tomato and pepper salad and a really good chicken liver and fresh herbs and tahini. And it's really perfect homemade bread. and you move into meats from the grill. And again, it could be super simple, but then you get all of these more elaborate plates. On a recent visit, they had a stuffed celery root that was stuffed with ground chicken in this lemony, tangy sauce.

28:53I had a celery root at Duck one time that was like stuffed as well. Beautiful. Celery root is slept on a little bit, I gotta say. I agree. I love it. And you just mentioned Doc. This is one of my favorite places. It's a restaurant by Asaf Doctor. He has two other restaurants, AB, which I love, and Achim. And he is so much intelligent in his food and everything. I love like this almost juxtaposition between how simple the setting is and all of his restaurants, Doc, A, B and Achim and the plates, right, that are so fine. So I love his places. If I want something that is more like nicer upscale, I really love Pronto by chef David Frankel.