319: Marissa Mullen

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0:33one world and one lane are creators who are making a lot of that kitschy content still, which does really well on TikTok. But I do think that there is a thirst for learning about what's on each cheese plate and like why pairings go together. And it's not just random things just for Instagram or for TikTok. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbart.

0:59Today on the show, I welcome back Marissa Mullen, the author of a great book, That Cheese Plate Wants to Party, and also, hey, my traveling companion this upcoming summer. We're heading to Normandy, and we talk all about the trip. We talk about holiday cheese entertaining, and really, you know what? Marissa's just a fun hang. It's such a great conversation. I hope you enjoy it.

1:28Marissa Mullen, welcome back to This Is Taste. What's up? Hello. Thanks for having me back. So excited to be here. You're always welcome back, Marissa. I love catching up with you. I follow you on socials. I was also watching the first episode of Real Housewives New York. Great season. I think Psy is probably my favorite heel. I like Jenna, obviously. I have a lot of Uba, of course. We have a rony super fan in the house tonight. No, I know the names. But I'm like watching the after show, like with, you know, Watch What Happens Live. And I'm like, oh, shit, Marissa. There I am. So you were on the Watch What Happens Live after the premiere and you were out there with cheese.

2:04Yes. Tell me about it. Okay. So I didn't really have much context leading into this. My second book, That Cheese Plate Wants to Party, came out in April of this year. And Watch What Happens Live was something that we all thought would be really funny to book as the bartender. The bartender position is actually, it's great because you just stand there and you don't say a word. You just smile and wave. And they give you like your drink in between breaks. So I was just sipping on a martini, just like watching all this go down. But I didn't know exactly what episode it would be. And so when I showed up, I realized that it was the full cast of the new season of Real Housewives.

2:39And I was like, oh, wait, this is kind of like a big deal episode. Okay. and the other thing too is that i didn't see the episode yet because it didn't air until i think like three weeks after we shot right because it actually isn't live yeah i know exactly there's no live and watch don't tell anyone but well you think andy's like waking up or sorry like staying up at like 11 to be in the studio no none of these things are but well maybe some but yeah with this one um we taped it like three weeks in advance so i didn't even know what the episode was really about and everyone kept talking about cheese drama and I'm like what what could be dramatic with cheese like what's the big deal here and then I watched the first episode and I was like oh that makes sense and that's funny that they had the cheese plate out because the girls fought over the cheese and it was like a whole thing but it was so much fun to do I mean they're everyone there is so nice and um all the housewives were great yeah they were all eating the cheese plate afterwards it was it was awesome yeah so were they eating the cheese that's what I wanted to ask you did was there actually cheese consumed by the housewives Oh, yeah.

3:37Everyone because like at this show. So I think we taped around like it was probably around five or six. But when I say in between every commercial break, they refill your drink. Like the interns are coming out with like full beverages. And so everyone is like kind of getting a little tipsy. Yeah. And I think by the end, a few of the housewives were like just staring at the cheese being like, I want some. So we all kind of snacked afterwards. I actually got to show Jenna Lyons the book, which was awesome. And I gave her a copy. So she owns the book, which is amazing. And then Uba and I got to talking and she took a bowl of strawberries with her and we were talking about her hot sauce brand.

4:14And then she actually invited me to the fancy food show to go visit her at her booth, which then led to us being friends on Instagram. And Carrie from Cherry Bomb recently asked me to guest host an episode. So I got to interview Uba for Radio Cherry Bomb. I loved it. I'll link to that in the show notes. It was a great episode that you guest hosted there. Yeah. Unfortunately, Carrie had COVID, so she couldn't do it. And she called me up and I was honored that she considered me to do it. But it was awesome because we got to reunite again. Are you going to like hang with Uba? I feel like you're like you're really close.

4:47You've done an interview. You've gone to the fancy food show. I mean, we were like friends through work, I'd say, you know, co-workers. So what cheese did you put out for this for this like tape segment? What were you serving that day? Oh, yeah. So I wanted to do a really elaborate grazing table that tied into themes of Real Housewives. So we had fake apples that were spray painted gold. Then we had real apples. So I kind of want to do like the apple tie in. So then I did sharp cheddar. We did a really pretty whipped feta with edible flowers. There was brie. There was Gruyere. It was kind of like a bunch of different cheeses.

5:23We want to just make it feel super full and abundant because, again, it's on camera. So you have to really make it look like it pops. So we used cake stands. We had the book out. We had a ton of flowers. Yeah, it looked cool on camera. Yeah, it looked really nice. So we'll get to our trip. We're co-hosting our trip. It's going to be amazing. We're announcing it now. Link to it in the show notes. We're at the beginning of the holiday season. And I'd like to get your take on how, what's the state of the cheese plate? Yeah, well, the holiday season is the cheese plate Super Bowl. This is where everyone takes out their cheese boards.

5:55They get to work. Um, yeah, I think it's funny watching the cheese plate landscape change because, you know, two or three years ago, probably 2020, it was all about like the super kitschy, like Christmas trees and ornaments and all in the shape of, you know, cheese plates in the shape of these said things, um, which is still pretty popular. I think there's kind of two worlds in which I've noticed the cheese plate world has been going, where one world and one lane are creators who are making a lot of that kitschy content still, which does really well on TikTok. And, you know, people want to create that at home so they can show their friends and be like, look at this fun thing.

6:33But I do think that there is a thirst for learning about what's on each cheese plate and like why pairings go together. And it's not just random things just for Instagram or for TikTok. and I noticed this specifically in for Halloween I did Halloween candy and cheese pairings and this is actually content that I originally posted in 2020 but I repurposed it with a new voiceover with more context and it did super well and people were just really interested on like first of all it's fun to see something like Halloween candy elevated with cheese but then second it's really interesting for people to learn like oh well why does blue cheese pair with something like Twix Like, why would that work?

7:12So I do think that there is this lane now that, you know, people, they learned how to make their cheese boards. You know, they know how to make them look fun and holiday themed. But now what can they tell their guests about the cheese on the plate and how do these pairings work together? So it makes me really happy because I love to, you know, educate people on pairings and whatnot. And I think it's having that audience there now who's really interested. Which I love about what you do. I love your books. I'm a huge fan that you really bring context and knowledge. And it's not just Pinterest. It's not just for the aesthetic, though the aesthetic is pretty rad.

7:45And I just think that you're tapping into this audience who actually cares about the food, to care about the culinary side of it. When you were out on the road touring, and I love following you on Instagram, you had some cool events all over the country. Let me ask you, were there any boards or pairings that just stick out as like, wow, we really did something new here? It's interesting because my book tour mainly was this concept that I called the cheese party. And it was a build your own cheese plate experience. So every event that I did had this large grazing table that was separated in step by step, you know, cheese, meat, produce, crunch dip, garnish.

8:23Everyone can build their own cheese boards. so the items that went on each cheese board kind of depended on where we were who we were partnering with you know what kind of local cheese companies i want to work with and one that stuck out particularly was nashville tennessee we did an event at the one hotel and the head chef was so excited to do this and we worked together to really make an amazing spread of all of these incredible midwestern cheeses so we had foxglove which is one of my favorites from indiana yeah I totally know that brand. It was amazing. We had, of course, we had some California cheeses.

8:57My friends at Cypress Grove, they donated some stuff, which was great. But there was Sophia from Caprile Farms, which is one of my favorites. Like the cheese on this table was like A plus, like the nicest artisanal cheese you can have, which for me, it was like a field day. And for a lot of people who were there, they didn't even, you know, a lot of people never even tried this type of cheese before, this high quality of cheese. and everyone was freaking out. They're like, wait, this is what cheese tastes like? I'm like, yes, this is what good cheese tastes like. It makes such a difference. And it doesn't have to be extremely expensive, right?

9:33Yeah, I mean, you could go to a cheese shop and tell them your price range and they will cut to order, which is an amazing thing about going to actual cheese shops. But yeah, I think if you want to spend money, if you want to invest in anything on a cheese board, I'd say invest in the cheese first because it really does make such a difference. But with this whole tour, I just love to be able to, you know, we did an event in San Yanez and wine country there. And we had local wine from the region and then California cheeses there. And it was just so cool to kind of tap into the like micro communities of each tour date to feature those different cheeses.

10:06Before we get to the trip, Taste Travels, I'd like to get a sense of your favorite region right now. Is there somewhere in the world of cheese that you're just compelled to write about, to, you know, taste? I mean, this sounds biased because we're going here, but France. France specifically. So I was in Paris about a month ago or probably now early September. I was in Paris and I made it my mission to go to every cheese shop I could find there just because they're all incredible. And Camembert de Normandy. It really is something so special because we don't get it in America. Yeah. The Camembert in America is like a mild, hard, buttery, flavorless.

10:50I mean, some are pretty good, but it's pasteurized here. Exactly. It's pasteurized. It's been it's a great like cheese to put out if you're like it's as an afterthought, I guess. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I love Camembert. Like before I went to France, I'd say Camembert was one of my favorites. But then I went to France and tried Camembert in Germany and was like, this is a whole new level. Another cheese I love there is Robleson, which is another cow's milk cheese, super gooey on the inside. That's kind of from the Alp region. And I'm really excited. I'm going to Chamonix in France after Thanksgiving.

11:24So probably around the time this comes out. And I'm so excited to try all the cheeses up in the Alps. They're just amazing. It's cool. And we're going to get into the trip. And I'm linking to it in the show notes. Taste Travel is returning. You and I are heading to Normandy in August. Why pick Normandy? I feel like we could have, we started talking about this like six months ago, and many different regions around the world that specialize in cheese. But why Normandy? Well, Normandy has such a rich history in both cheese and history. It's home to what they call the famous four, which are four cheeses known to the region.

11:59And that's Camembert de Normandy, Livareau, which is a pungent kind of wash rind cow's milk cheese, is Pointe-le-Vec, which is a soft cow's milk cheese, kind of similar to a camembert, but in a more square shape. And then Neuf Chantel, which is a heart-shaped cheese. And talking about history, a fun history fact that I actually found was that during the Hundred Year War in 1337, the Dairy Maidens would offer English soldiers Neufonchel. I'm probably butchering the name because I need to learn French before we go. You're doing okay. Neuf Chantel. Ooh, that's good. There we go. They would offer English soldiers this cheese because it was in the shape of a heart and it was a token of their affection.

12:40Oh, right. And I'm like, how? Like, this is the thing about going to France and going to Europe specifically for cheese. You do not have that history of cheese in America. Like, there aren't these stories and these folklores and these tales and, you know, cheese making practices that have been passed down for generations and generations and protected cheeses. And I don't know. It's just I'm I cannot wait. Yeah, it's it's it's. I'm sure there's cheese on flags somewhere in Spain or Italy or France. Now, let's just go over what we're going to do because we've been working on this itinerary for a while and we're hammering out the final details now.

13:15But really, the structure of the trip is intense. It's going to be a lot of tasting, a lot of visiting. We're going to be visiting cities. We're going to be visiting producers. But do you have a few beats that you're excited about? All of it from start to finish? It's pretty exciting. Yeah, I think, you know, we get into Paris and then we head out to the countryside. The landscape, first of all, is just so beautiful out there. And we're going to go to a small town and stop by a farmer's market. If you've ever been to a farmer's market in France, it supersedes every farmer's market I've ever been to.

13:47You know, they have the most fresh produce and they have actual cheese stands that are like refrigerated cases just out in the open at the farm stands. Yeah, they're really neat there. But after that, we're going to a cider making farm and estate. Normandy is also known for Calvados, which is an apple brandy. So we'll be doing a Calvados tasting in a chateau. The whole itinerary sounds just very magical. And I think what I love, too, is that we kind of made the itinerary so that it's both action packed, but also relaxing. Totally. Like we're staying in a treehouse fort. Yeah, I love that, that we were able to kind of stay in some hotels, but then in this treehouse.

14:28Yeah, so this treehouse, it's called Entap en Flore. Yeah. And it is a treehouse with a Nordic spa, and there's also zip lining. There's some action you can do. No, it's cool. It's like definitely more like, it's going to be late August, so it's going to be like a cool outdoorsy time. I'll just jump in and talk about Taste Travels, because Taste Travels is this program that we launched last year. We went to Apulia with Susie Caracci, one of our authors, like you, Marissa. and it was really cool because the travelers and us we all kind of like got together and started talking about cookbooks yeah we talked a lot about the making of a cookbook about what goes into it and it really and we'll do this on this trip i think it'll be obviously about cheese and visiting france and there'll be a guide there who will give a lot of contextual history of the you know the region but then you and i are there to talk about food media stuff yeah and hang out and like go over you know ideas for possible future books and just talk about the process and to be honest the travelers like that and i think our listeners um if you're interested in going to france with us we're gonna really get into like a lot of the topics we cover on the show yeah i mean it's like we're all hanging out for six days so you can ask any questions we'll be close friends by the end it's cool and it's i swear it's not weird like if you've never gone on a group trip right the sales pitch for taste travels it's not weird it's not weird we promise you'll have cheese yeah you'll have cheese no but it's cool i think there's been so many more of these opportunities especially for for all for all generations really about just like traveling as a group of like-minded explorers traveling solo traveling with a friend and just like experiencing a new country with a bunch of people including us like we've never been to these regions really in detail i know you've been there, but not to these exact locations.

16:10And we all get to discover together. I found it really, really cool to be there with some like-minded people. Oh, totally. And also just, you know, in the post-COVID world, now that we can gather and can travel, it just feels that much more special to do something like this. And especially with all the activities that are planned, like me personally, I'm a planner. And when I went to Europe in 2022, I did my cheese, pray love tour of Europe. I planned that whole thing myself and boy, it was exhausting doing all of that. So the fact that this itinerary is set in stone and we're going to Mont Saint-Michel, which is the most beautiful castle in the middle of like a sandbar.

16:47We're doing, you know, beautiful dinners at Michelin star restaurants. And, oh, we're going, we're doing a lesson in French table setting. I love that. Which I love that ties into just, you know, serving and entertaining. I just feel like, you know, being able to do all these things that are pre-planned, you just show up and you go. You don't have to think about the stress of transportation or of planning something or, you know, oh, what if this already got booked up? It's like, no, it's already ready to go, which for me, that just like saves so much hassle and stress. Oh my gosh. And there's a lot, you know, different language here.

17:18So your proficiency in French may vary. And really, we have planned everything for you. There's also enough time off, which is, I think, important to note. We have some evenings off and I think it's really important that you can travel and visit the cities on your own. Mount St. Michel, I've always wanted to go there since I was very young. I took French 101 in college and I was Benoit. In high school, my name was Benoit. I love that. I was Marisol because I took Spanish. You were Marisol. I was Benoit. I'll go by Benoit when I'm on my trip. So you'll be speaking French for us because you'll have a lot of Spanish.

17:50Je parle petit français. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, it's definitely cool when someone else can do all that traveling, that planning for the traveling. So again, it's in the show notes. We've linked to it. You can reach out directly to us on Instagram if you have any questions, but we'd love to see you there. Yeah. Also, if you've never tried French cheese in France, you have to go. It's literally a life-changing experience. I'm saying this from someone who didn't until recently. I will never eat... No, I'm kidding. French cheese is my favorite by far. It hits different, I guess. Yeah, it hits different.

18:25So let's close out. What are you working on right now? Now, you've finished kind of your touring, but I'm sure you'll do lots of events. I guess you'll never really end because you're such a great host, and I love the events that you plan. Oh, thanks. But what are you working on right now? So that cheese plate turns 10 this year in December, which is nuts. I started my Instagram account in December 2013. That's insane. Yeah. Holy moly. One of the OG Instagrammers. Yeah. So I'm throwing a huge party at Talaya in Williamsburg. Oh, cool. So mark your calendars. By this time, tickets will be on sale.

18:56but it's going to be just like an epic cheese party bash we're going to have of course build your own cheese boards we're going to have like a gift wrapping station if you want to buy books i'm trying to hire a flash tattoo artist to do like real tattoos of like cute illustrations of cheese and i think this is champagne and stuff um i might get an aura reader i'm just trying to like go all over readers are great yeah wait do you have basically like a wedding um yeah i have four and i'm definitely going to get a cheese one i was gonna say which one so if you get the flash tattoo artist you have to obviously participate yeah so i i had this like internal goal of i will only get a cheese tattoo if i hit a million followers or sell a million books which like neither are close yet so i figured maybe just 10 years is a good milestone for a cheese tattoo um so that i'm really excited about we're partnering with a lot of cool brands for it and it just feels like a really nice way to close out this year of the cheese party because of the book that came out and all of my events.

19:50It's just like a really, I'm super excited for that. I'm also, I just launched a series of private events in New York City that you can book, you can bring that cheese party to your home. So I teamed up with this company called Health Chefs and we can basically bring you a build your own cheese board station and a private chef will come set the whole thing up, give you a brief overview, and then you and your friends can build your own boards, take photos. We provide tablescape decor, flat lays for taking the photo and everything. So that's on my website. Is this New York only? It's like the tri-state area for now.

20:23Tri-state. What are we talking about? What's running? What are you charging for this? So for this, it's 160 a person. So bad. Which, you know, as for like a private chef experience in your home, it's pretty good. And it comes with a lot of different, you know, food items. And it's enough for everyone to make a nine by nine cheese plate, which for context, it serves about three people. Yeah. And then you can take some home with you. Yeah, you can take some home. We also have gift bags involved, like custom tote bags and stuff. So that is on my website, which is super exciting, especially for the holiday season.

20:52And then I'm brainstorming book number three. Yeah. So book three in my mind. We'll be publishing book three down the road. I'm sure we'll have you back on to talk about that. But I'm going to see you in France. It's going to be really fun to do that. I'm so excited. Like this is just like on a personal note, doing something like this has truly been on my manifestation bucket. list for years now. And when you guys approached me for this, I was like, oh my gosh, this is just incredible. I'm so excited. Come join us in France in August. On This Is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste.

21:22So to close this interview, Marissa, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? Yes, I'm ready. Okay. Your favorite New York City restaurant right now? Right now, I just went to Cozy Royale. Oh yeah. And their burger was amazing. What makes a good burger in 2023? That's hard. There's a lot of good burgers out there. I know. I don't really love super smashed burgers like i like to see a little bit of meat in there um i also love burgers that have pickles on them me too a little bit of tang me too i love a pickle on a burger and american cheese okay i was gonna say yeah always american cheese i mean is there anything like is there any does a is there a burger without a cheese in your universe um no no i was gonna say like for me i don't know a burger without cheese i really don't yeah uh the best dessert the italian job at Lilia.

22:07Yeah. You know what I like about that? It's the temperature. Yeah. They serve it perfect. It's not too cold. It's not like that hard pack ice cream or gelato that you get like, oh no, it's amazing. And for people who haven't had this, it is a vanilla soft serve with olive oil, like really high quality olive oil, honey, fennel and sea salt. It's really, really, really, really good. And again, the temperature is perfect, which is very, for a very hot restaurant. Yeah. They somehow make it work. It's crazy. The best bread. She-wolf sourdough in Brooklyn. Yeah. My favorite. It's a great place. What's the best cheese to put on that bread?

22:40Ooh. I mean, it's impossible. What a dumb question. Probably like camembert or brie. Yeah. Like a cheese that you can smear. See, when it's too hard and you've got this beautiful crusty bread, you're separating it. It becomes like a weird, they don't marry. I feel like hard cheese goes on crackers. Soft cheese goes on bread. Good tip. Yeah. Or crackers too. But hard cheese on soft bread doesn't really work as well. Triscuit or Ritz? Ritz. Right? Yeah, Triscuits get a little crumbly. Yeah, they also like cut your mouth and then you're sad. A couple more. Your favorite recent cookbook discovery?

23:19Recent cookbook discovery. So this is one that I've known of for a while, but The Forest Feast. She has a series of cookbooks and she actually did one in the Mediterranean, which was amazing. And her recipes are super accessible. But I just love how the book is laid out and every recipe has like a watercolor page to it that she does herself to, which is cool. I don't know that book. It sounds really neat. Yeah, she has, I think, four in the series. Nice. Yeah. Your favorite cookbook of all time? The Flavor Thesaurus. Wait, okay. So I know the Flavor Bible. The Flavor Thesaurus. So what are we talking about?

23:56Man, you're going, this is great. Okay, so the Flavor Thesaurus is like, it's not like a big, you know, clunky cookbook. It's more of a smaller book, but essentially it's separated with the taste profiles and then goes deep into like probably, you know, five, 3 ,000 types of food and what they pair with. That's so cool. It's all text. It's like no photos. There's no photos. It's like really, but it's perfect for what you do. It's incredible for pairings. Yeah. Yeah. A couple more. Your favorite vegetable? Potatoes. Which way? Okay, this is my favorite question. We're going inception into the question.

24:29Yeah. Top three favorite potatoes. That's like my favorite. Like, you know, if you're on a first date, what are your top three favorite potato styles? For me, waffle fries is number one. Curly fries is number two. And latkes is number three. Oh, my God. That's so good. But like all fried. No, of course. It's like you're definitely a fried potato. I like I like the fact you did waffle number one. Yeah. Waffle is always number one. If you get a good waffle. I mean, I got a ski lodge. What's that? Like when you're skiing. Oh, at a ski lodge. Yeah. Of course. I remember we had Curly's at my middle school.