327: Nasim Lahbichi

25:27So the cookbook proposal has been in the works for like a year. And it's... It's a triggering topic. Just a little. Sometimes I get envious. I see my friends who are in this field as well, and they've finished their cookbook already. And I remember us starting the cookbook proposal at the same time. And I just want to be very intentional about the stories that I'm telling. It's mostly inspired by my experience growing up in New York City and having access to other people's cultures through food and also the essence of chosen family. and I don't want to give like too much away but chosen family is something especially as a queer person that I've come to almost be obsessed with the idea of chosen family so how people who aren't blood related to you don't literally owe you anything per se can impact your life and be there for you and for you even more so than like your your family that you were born into and how food has been such a beautiful way for me to nourish them the way that they get to nourish me or the way that I feel nourished by them emotionally and spiritually.

26:33Yeah. So it's like a community cookbook, maybe not in that the recipes are coming from other people, but that it's born out of your community. And it's born by like the families that I grew up around. So I love this idea that right now on social media, chosen family is associated with like queerness and the lgbtqia plus community but um especially for people of color chosen family has always been a part of the community it's um we were taught to lean on each other because there was no there were so many policies and systemically we weren't protected or we weren't uh nourished the same way that other people in communities were so leaning on your neighbor to pick up your kids after school and they're there until 8 p.m because you're still at work or being able to go home to their house for the holidays because your family were maybe they didn't celebrate Christmas and you were interested in like being able to experience their their culture and their traditions so for example like my childhood best friend Lauren she's Jewish so I would go to her house every single year for Hanukkah and it was always so fun to like break open the brisket and the matzah and like watch her grandmother make matzah ball soup.

27:42And it was just, it was one of my favorite memories growing up. I love that. You must be a dreidel shark then. A dreidel shark? Like for Hanukkah, are you good at dreidel? I'm not good at dreidel. I have terrible hand-eye coordination. I'll have you over to my latke party and you can practice. I would love. Well, I think that sounds like a really great idea for the cookbook. And I don't think you should feel rushed about finishing it because it's a long process, you know? For For sure. Yeah. You're in the process of one. No, no. Thank God. I talked to other people about theirs. I'm like, well, that seems like a lot of work to do because it's the recipe testing and the photo shoot.

28:17It's such a combined process. And like you're doing all this other work at the same time. Absolutely. But it'll get there, you know. And I also am very intentional about who I'm working with in terms of like selling the book. And if they actually understand the mission and the story behind the book. because if you don't feel passionate about the book, you're not going to, it's not going to be a mutually beneficial partnership to work together to get this out there because I want someone to believe in it as much as I do. And I think there's a lot of the same style of cookbooks, which is just as important, but I don't think there's that many cookbooks talking about this kind of essence.

28:56I think there's more of them coming out now with the resurgence of like community and cooking online with social media, But I'm excited to see and I'm very interested in seeing how even publishers respond to this kind of like proposal. Yeah, I'm interested as well. And I think one of the reasons why is that we just published a story on Taste. I mean, at the time of this recording about the history of like queer cookbooks and specifically like more like sapphic cookbooks in the 80s and 90s and how difficult it was for so many of them to be made by publishers. And now we're in a moment where there are so many like prolific people in the food world that are queer, as there were people back in that era as well.

29:40And so like seeing the way that queerness is centered or maybe like transformed in different ways in regards to food, to me, is really interesting. Absolutely. And I wanted to ask you about the Ali Forney Center, because I know that's a group that's very close to your heart and that you cook for their dance-a-thon. And I'm so curious, like what you cook for people that are dancing for, is it 24 hours? as long as they can. I think this one was eight hours. Eight hours. There's still a lot of dancing and eating at the same time. A lot of dancing. So last year was the first dance-a-thon. I was brought on board by Dev Doe, who's a famous drag queen in New York City, and then also Eddie Massib from Eddie's Grocer in Greenpoint.

30:20I was there on Sunday. Were you at Alley Pony Center? No, Eddie's Grocer. Oh, Eddie's Grocer. Okay. and um so last year was the first year of danceathon and i was like one of like 10 queer chefs who were there just like nourishing the people dancing and it was to this day like my favorite moment in like a long time i felt so connected to my community which um i sometimes feel like disconnected by or like not necessarily involved in per se being like chronically online but and then also being able to see share my culture so I made the Moroccan meatballs with peas and everyone I think I was like one of the first chefs to sell out and it was just like really beautiful to see people loving this dish that I grew up eating and also being able to nourish such a good cause and help people feel really full in so many different ways while they were also doing something for good yeah for listeners who are unfamiliar can you maybe say a little bit about Ali Forney Center?

31:21Yeah. So Ali Forney Center is a nonprofit based in New York City, and they support LGBTQ youth who are experiencing homelessness, and they provide housing and meals to those in need. And they are one of my favorite organizations because when you meet the people and the founders and the individuals working there, they are so passionate about helping these children who are so impressionable. They're so young, And it's so unfortunate that to this day, society breeds this like notion that this queerness is unaccepted to the point where you're kicking out your own baby, your own loved one onto the street because they're just slightly different in who they are attracted to or how they see themselves.

32:03Yeah, a huge population of queer youth around the world and especially in New York are unhoused. So I think it's a really important cause to raise attention to. And I think that a meatball seems like a really good way to fuel people dancing for that because it's portable and has protein in it. And I'm curious if you know what you're going to make this year. This year. So last year, I actually, one of my brand partners that I work with is IKEA. And people sleep on their vegan meatballs. Oh, my God. The meatballs at IKEA are such a thing. So delicious. But they actually have a vegan mince, which is really lovely.

32:37And I use that too. They donated all of the meat. So I used the vegan meat and I wanted it to be accessible regardless of someone's diet. This year, I'm thinking of sticking with the vegan meat again because IKEA is like willing to donate the food, which also helps like me in terms of like producing it and sourcing the ingredients. But I'm thinking of doing a brouette, which is kind of like a triangular puff pastry with phyllo dough from Morocco. And there's like a sweet version, which is made with almond paste and dipped in honey. And then the savory version is made with a seasoned meat mixture that has like cinnamon, cumin, cayenne, and coriander.

33:13And then you kind of roll it in this phyllo dough, dip it in honey. And I serve it with like a red, spicy, zesty harissa date sauce. and it's sweet and savory and it's crunchy. It's very, it kind of crosses every single aspect of like what an amazing dish is, which is textural, it's all balanced. You have the acidity, you have the fattiness. It sounds so great. And when is the Dance-A-Thon happening this year? The Dance-A-Thon is November 12th, I believe. Okay, are you gonna dance or you're just gonna be, you're dancing while you serve? I might dance, yeah. My partner will be there with me, so it'll be fun.

33:49Okay, you're getting help with the distribution? Absolutely. And the making of the dish. So speaking of your boyfriend, I'm curious about like how food has been a dynamic in your relationship, like especially publicly talking about like dating and your videos and also just as a way that I'm sure you connect with your loved ones. Like what's that experience been like? It's funny. He actually slid into my DMs on Instagram. Is that how you met? Yeah. Oh, my God. What was the line? I posted like these Simple Mills crackers are like my favorite crackers. And he slid into my DM saying, oh, my God, I'm obsessed with those.

34:21And it was kind of cringy but cute. And he said something along the lines of, oh, I love these crackers. And then he sent her another message saying, like, I love your face or something. It was just like, yeah, it was like very like roll-eyed emoji. Wow, let's get you some cracker sponsorship money. I texted my friend who works there and she's like, we'll sponsor the wedding in like two years. Free crackers like being thrown instead of rice. Like no bar, open bar, just like a crudite bar, just like full of simple milk crackers. figures but um yeah he said into my dms and i was like fine i'll bite like i have nothing else to lose and it's he was going to korea for a month so the day that he sent that message so we met a month later and he is korean right he's korean yeah he's also from new york so shared a very similar upbringing as me and like understanding of culture and interest in like learning about other people through food and a lot of our relationship has been surrounded by food i think every single time we spend with each other, we're either cooking or eating.

35:20He's showing me his culture through food, which Korean food is something that I've never really been in touch with because where I grew up, there wasn't that many Korean restaurants around me. But it's something that I'm like really excited to learn more about through him. And he's like learned so much about Moroccan food as well through me. Yeah, I love that. I think there are so many great Korean restaurants in New York and Korean food also is just so like flavorful and spicy to your earlier points, like I think it seems like the kind of thing that you would love getting to eat more of. Absolutely.

35:51Yeah. And it's just, it's such a different flavor profile from Moroccan and Puerto Rican food. It's very sour and acidic with the fermentation, the kimchi. Love that they incorporate so much seafood into like their daily diet. And it's just, it's an interesting, and I'm so fascinated by the flavor profiles of Korean food. I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, we're talking about being born and bred New Yorkers. I'm curious, like when you have people visiting the city, are you into being a tour guide for them? Do you have any like deep cuts you take them to? I think one of my favorite things to take people to is just like my favorite restaurants.

36:32I don't really, if they want to go to like the Empire State Holding, that's on them. I'm not waiting online. No, you don't have to go to Midtown. Absolutely not. Okay, will you tell me like a couple of the restaurants? For sure, yeah. So I live in Brooklyn, so a lot of the restaurants are in Brooklyn. And I think people who visit the city are afraid to step out of the bounds of Manhattan. I'm like, please just go to Flushing. It'll transport you past New York City to a different world. Flushing is a thing of its own. But I love Winsong in Williamsburg, which is a Taiwanese restaurant. The bakery or the restaurant or both?

37:07Yeah. Both. Skyland Pancake Bacon Egg and Cheese is phenomenal. Except for I think the bakery blew up on TikTok a couple months ago because whenever I've tried to go, the line has been like down the block in a way that I've never seen. And that is like my one qualm with TikTok as well is like you ruin the experience for a lot of people when something goes viral. and sometimes I worry that it affects a restaurant and that they want to speed up production, but they then lose the quality of the actual dish because they're trying to ramp up production of this dish. But yeah, Winsan is phenomenal. I'm obsessed with Kiki's is one of my go-tos.

37:47It's just like such an easy, good meal. It's Greek food. It's pretty affordable. The vibes are always great. Their house wine is also incredibly affordable and good, which is just a hot tip for anybody listening. Oh, absolutely. I went there every Wednesday after my thesis class with my best friends in school. We would cry about our critiques every day, just like a craft or two of wine. Let's see. I love Al-Badawi on Atlantic Avenue to Palestinian restaurants. Phenomenal. So good. So delicious. They're like chicken flatbread. I'm so obsessed with. And also the water they serve in the clay pot.

38:23Yeah. Like the freshest, I don't know, maybe it's just the clay pot, but it was the freshest water I've ever had in my life. I think it's like, you know, drinking like a Coke out of a bottle is better than from a can. I think drinking water out of a clay pot is a similar like just serving textural experience. Absolutely. It's so delicious. I think it's interesting to talk to you about TikTok and the way that that impacts food businesses in the city, because like obviously when your favorite restaurant blows up and you can't go there, that's one example. But then on the flip side, like there are so many businesses that have found clientele that way.

38:53Do you think of yourself as like a food TikToker when you're doing like recipe content as opposed to like, this is me like eating in a restaurant and like doing like a mukbang style video of everything I'm getting? Most of my content is sharing recipes that I've developed or recipes that I've learned from other people and my friends and family. But I also have started trying to incorporate like just me trying new restaurants on TikTok just because it's fun and silly. And you get to show like your little outfit when you go out to eat. And like it's just it's just good vibes all around. Yeah, the fit checks are important.

39:28The fit checks are always important. It's just like it makes me feel good too whenever I post it because it's like, oh, like, yeah, it's cute. I remember I went to Bonnie's, which is really good. I went to Bad Roman, which was like fine. Intense. Intense. Yeah, very. That's a good word. Bonnie's is phenomenal as well. An amazing Taiwanese restaurant as well in Brooklyn. Oh, I think Bonnie's is Cantonese, actually. It's like Canto dim sum style. Correct. The chef from Winsan left. Yes. Okay. Calvin. Yes, Calvin. Cantonese. But yeah, trying out new restaurants is something that I want to do more so of.

40:05But making videos of recipes that I've developed takes so much time to edit versus like going to a restaurant and just like sharing little clips of the meal. Yeah, definitely. So it gets pushed to the back. I guess like thinking about food video content in general across platforms. Like I'm curious, like how you would like to see that grow and change because it's such a rich format that has so many different things happening right now. Wait, repeat the question. Sorry. Just looking at food content, food video content across platforms, I'm curious how you would love to see maybe things you want to see more of or things you think are really exciting, because I think that is kind of where food content is evolving faster than any other kind of media.

40:45I've been trying to be more intentional about being intentional about the community that I integrate with in order to make this recipe. So I've been going to the farmer's market more and highlighting like these are the farmers that I actually source my ingredients from. one of my favorite uh favorite farmers at union square on wednesdays is halal pasture farms the sweetest family the most delicious produce pretty affordable um and bringing back the notion that like food is more than just like the meal that you're making for yourself it's like every aspect of how you got it to um how it was farmed how it was raised and where the dish is coming from like what it's culturally inspired by and being very intentional about a lot of that because there's you know with tiktok and virality and this need for like this obsession with like engagement it's figuring out how to almost like clickbait a meal or like make a meal click clickbaitable clickbaitable clickbaitable right um or making someone feel any type of emotion whether it be positive or negative to in order to make this go viral and it's i want sometimes i've been trying to like also remind myself that it's not about how many views it gets it's about um if it impacts at least one single person and it inspires them to get out of their routine to make something nourishing for themselves.

42:05Yeah, I think that's a really nice way to think about it. And to close today, I want to play a little like taste check game with you. So I'll give you a category and you can just tell me the first thing that comes into your head, rapid fire. Okay, amazing. To start, I would like to know if you could have a signature menu item named after you, what would it be? Oh my God. uh manifesting manifesting it'd be called the virgo stellium okay yeah do you have a virgo stellium i do unfortunately oh wow no wonder you have like everything down i don't is it a cocktail is it an ice cream okay the virgo stellium would be definitely a sweet because virgos are intense so i need it needs to balance the energy coping mechanism coping mechanism correct uh so it would Probably a cocktail.

42:53Something like sweet with mezcal. Cool. Okay. Go-to bodega snack. Ooh, the purple Dorito chips. Go-to bagel order. Everything bagel, toast to a veggie cream cheese. Favorite cookbook. Salfa Aceti by Samin Nasrat. Classic. Favorite New York City restaurant. Right now, it would have to be Winsan. That's like always a go-to. Favorite New York City bakery. From Lucy. Favorite New York City bar. I don't go out to bars that much. I guess it would have to be, I love singers, but it's more of a dive bar. Yeah, it's like a dive queer bar kind of vibe. Most of the time if I'm getting cocktails at a restaurant.

43:33Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Okay, a restaurant anywhere in the world that you wish could be your neighborhood restaurant. There is a restaurant in Seattle called Meda Cash, and it is the best Moroccan restaurant outside of Morocco that I've ever been to in my entire life. Well, OK, next trip to Seattle. I have to go. Phenomenal. And there's no Moroccan restaurants in New York City that perfectly execute Moroccan cuisine without influence from any neighboring cultures or cuisines, if that makes sense. Yeah. It's just like strictly Moroccan food, which is sometimes all that I want. Wow. OK. A now closed New York City establishment that you wish you could resurrect.

44:12Mimi's Diner. Yeah. Yeah. I miss Mimi's. Great. Although I have to say that my friend Tanya that I do cake scene with is pastry chef at Little Egg in the Mimi's Space. And I do think she's continuing some of the pastry vibe a little bit. I have to advocate. Does she make the carrot cake? She is going to do it as a special. It's not always on, but we can lobby her, I think. I think so. I'll DM her. Like, we need the carrot cake back. To close, a fictional food scene that you wish you could eat. Remy when he eats the grape with, was it the grape with the cheese or strawberry with the cheese? Yeah.

44:44Yeah. Yeah. That scene. Maybe I'll just like pop an edible and try recreating it myself. You know what? I picture you coming up with flavor combinations. That is what I picture is like the closing your eyes and like seeing the shapes and colors. I actually have said that I see flavors like colors. So when I pair flavors, it's like pairing, like it's a color theory. Well, do you have synesthesia? Maybe it's a form of it, but I just sometimes I'll think of flavors and I just know it's going to work because I can see them. Okay. So what color is like coffee? Well, coffee is hard because it's like brown.

45:15Yeah. But like cardamom to me is obviously like brown, but it evokes this kind of like deep emerald green kind of flavor to me. Okay. Well, let's go bring some crayons to the kitchen next time. This was so fun, Nassim. Thanks for coming by. Thank you so much.

45:45Kyle Newman, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you doing? I'm doing awesome. Thank you. Well, you know what? Your book is awesome. Because honestly, I don't play Dungeons and Dragons, but I am drawn into the universe. You built me a universe. I love it so much. That was one of the most challenging parts of it and one of the most rewarding parts of it. I think trying to live inside of a universe in a game that strives for multifaceted authenticity and immersion, trying to bring another sensory experience to that game, to activate smells and taste when it really hasn't been done before was a challenge.

46:25and I think it was one we relished. So it was a really unique and strange experience, the whole idea of a fantasy cookbook. Absolutely, and it pushes your creativity to the limit. I mean, you're a well-regarded director, producer, filmmaker. So, I mean, Dungeons & Dragons isn't really most of what you do. You do other things. So I can imagine the task, and we'll get into your history, D &D, but the task of creating a cookbook around this universe, which is like straight imagination. That's like so atypical to the kind of cookbooks we talk about. Was this really difficult? It was in conception.

47:06It's more daunting to think about it. But once you roll up your sleeves and dive in, you realize it's just as familiar. You still have the same amount of palatable things at your disposal to present to people to use in their recipes. And you just have to find new ways of combining them or finding them familiar and augmenting it with something left of center or you know not really common for that type of dish and that that was our task but yeah when you when you when we sat down to do it we're like wow where do we begin because we're looking at nearly 50 years 50 years of media that have been written about this game there's novelizations there's in-game setting books there's like culture guides there are games themselves and you kind of pick up little clues while reading it like doing in-universe historical research and you realize okay so these these underdark elf people have this at their disposal they don't have livestock but they have mushrooms and lichen and maybe freshwater fish that like would grow in caves underground and so you realize that becomes their the things you can select from and then how do you make that palatable for um humans humans of earth you know so it was an extra layer of work you can't just go i really love a dish that includes this and this because we have to then tether it to something authentic that's in the game whether it's a location or people's or a concept and trying to keep in mind the methods of preparation that they have at their disposal uh for the most part dnd is very rustic you know but there are some settings that allow for more fusion type ideas so yeah and you really embrace those fusion settings we'll get into some of the recipes.

48:45But first, I want to know your own personal history with D &D, because you're not just writing cookbooks and books about D &D, you're creating a documentary, you're in the process of working on that. And you're really into the culture on D &D, obviously. But how about you, like your personal connection to the game? So I got into the game, almost perfectly, I, my older brothers played, I was born in 76. And, you know, they kind of got hit with D &D right when it came out. They were children of all that stuff. And I would sit in the tent at Boy Scout camp and watch them play or see them and their friends playing.

49:22I was kind of like Elliot and E.T. off to the side while the older siblings played. So I flipped through the monster manual and comic books. That's how I learned how to draw. And I heard the game and I always wanted to play it, but I was just too little to do it because it's really a game you enter in around 10, 11 because math and reading are such a big part of it and writing um and so i had this you know this tangential kind of experience with it um where it was like around but i wasn't in it and then i got into it more via the star wars role-playing game and ninja turtles role-playing games i started to play other role-playing games and dnd was one of them and then uh developed this great affinity for it over the years because it really is a way to just build universes uh they give you the tools to go out there and create your own world whether you want to play one of their worlds and make it your own or just your world from scratch and that was always fun it was a great way to spend time with friends and just develop your imagination and now if you look at it most showrunners are really just they're dungeon masters you know they have a group of characters and they create a world and you just watch it go on and on and dnd is like these ongoing seasons of a show um so that's how i i got into it i think it just helped foster my love of storytelling and you know imagination yeah absolutely and clearly it connects to your professional career i mean i i listened to craig masen's podcast once in a while i know him and john august have a big dnd night every week for years and years and it seems a lot of folks in hollywood particularly folks who are producing and writing and directing are into it.

51:01Do you have other groups that you play with in Hollywood? Craig's the best. Craig plays in one of my groups. Oh, sick. You're an amazing group. All right, here you go. I brought Craig into a group. We played also with Joe Manganiello and some other people. We went through one of Dungeons & Dragons' famed settings in Forgotten Realms, and it was Undermountain. It's a 23-level dungeon dive, and Craig played in that. and Craig joined our Tuesday night game as well. So I do a lot of stuff, our D &D related with Craig and his podcast is spectacular. So yeah. And then there's another game we did, which was, we got kind of famous and it was with Joe as a dungeon master and Tom Morello from Rage Against the Machine and the big show from the WWE.

51:48And we had Vince Vaughn and the Game of Thrones creators. There was all these great people in this group and we were doing that strong, prior to the pandemic and then twice as strong during the pandemic sometimes we're playing two or three times a week amazing it got a little crazy so there was that game and uh i don't play as much the past year i would say i have i have a three-year-old three-month-old and a two-year-old and an eight-year-old and a 10-year-old so time just keeps getting um cut into but i'm i'm getting back into our tuesday night game keeps going so i love this it sounds like it's a great escape and a great networking opportunity.

52:25So, hey, get to do both at the same time. It really, you know what? Everyone, you kind of forget who everyone is. You just come together like 13 years old and you... I love that. You unrestrained laugh and it's wild and no one's keeping anyone's imagination in check. And it's like a step away from the world. Very cool. So when you're making this documentary, have you learned anything about D &D culture? Briefly that we can talk about right now. I know it's not out. It'll be out at some point. You're right. Are you talking about the culture of. Yeah. In the game or the culture of the people? The people.

53:04Yeah. Not, not so just, you know, the players, the people. Yeah. Oh, it's well, of course. I mean, I don't, people give you this advice when you, when you enter the entertainment industry or the writing industry. And there was like, write what you know. And I think that's the worst advice in the world. uh i always say write what you want to know and i was not an expert at dungeons and dragons of its history when i got involved with like art arcana which was our first book in 2018 and that was a basically history of the role-playing game that i had stepped away from for about 15 18 years i was like where's the book about what i've missed where's someone done this and they hadn't so i set out to do this and i built this team and we we made this book and got nominated for a hugo ago, which was amazing.

53:49And we started to really deep dive into the culture, these people. Why is this game enduring? Why is a game that's traditionally analog? Why is a game that's pencil and paper that's in a way when you have a phone in your pocket, why are people gravitating towards this game? Why has it gone from 3 million players in 2008 to 60 million players in 2023? What is this explosion? And I think it taps into a few things. And there's a few reasons why it's risen again it's like first of all the the culture of nerd is it isn't as taboo as it was you know fantasy isn't taboo everyone it's mainstream you have game of thrones you have harry potter you have lord of the rings they're winning seth cohen yeah you have all these these people that are like role models in your culture and you're watching it and it's mainstream so you're like wait this isn't weird this isn't taboo this is just like everything else i do so you're familiar with it you have the vernacular and then the game itself has been demystified uh you don't have to be you know it's not like what is this weird arcane game you play is a cult a cult like no it's it's just people getting together it's collaborative storytelling and so all these things are stripped away and they made the game even simpler to play so now the entry point is even younger now you're getting all types of people um all ages all backgrounds and it's a really fascinating melting pot of there's people coming together to escape and have a good time you get to practice being someone else is what this is what some people love love it and sometimes you're exercising a part of yourself you never get to exercise you play it through a character and you're seeing this game infiltrate um prisons you're seeing it infiltrate therapy now people are finding there's new ways to unlock sides of people get them to talk about themselves so it's got these incredible properties and i think it really became it has become the role-playing game this type of a new art form new american art form uh since the 70s and these are things we've discovered you know making the doc and writing these books um but there's it's endured because of the people because this could have easily died you know many absolutely he has died i mean eight million in 08 i mean that's like almost compared to 60 million now it's it's incredible growth and it almost did die probably then let me ask you just quickly when you say it got easier that really is interesting what what does that mean exactly they the rule system itself is just a little simpler there's not as much math there's less complication if you're getting into combat and having to figure out things game it doesn't last as long you might say all right this is a winnable battle there's a way for dungeon master to ease through it so the story becomes more central than some of the technical things also there's dnd beyond which is like a digital app that you can just it it basically walks you through building your character in three or four minutes you don't need someone to sit and explain it to you like you used to or you don't have to read a 50 page section of a manual now you can sit down and just do it it's intuitive and you built your character before you know it there's dice rolling right in the app so it's exponentially simpler and the rules itself itself are easier to learn so it's really cool that you say that Barrier for entry has just dropped.

57:06So let's talk about the book and about, you know, it's been out for a little while. You know, are people cooking from the book? And, you know, what are you seeing on social media? Are there any recipes that you're seeing out there in the universe, anecdotally, or just on social? Oh, you know what popped up after the first book? Heroes Feast 1 came out in 2020. Yeah. And a Facebook group developed the Heroes Feast Facebook group. And these people get together and they take pictures of their versions of our recipes, which is great because so much of D &D is homebrew. It's putting yourself into it.

57:37It's customization, which we encourage in the book. And so people will be like, I did it this way, but I substituted this for this. And this is how it came out. And they'll share their stories about making it. and I would go to the group and interact with people and also try to get a sense of what they did or didn't like about the first book knowing that we were developing a sequel and figuring out how to incorporate some of that where did we maybe have a gap to fill where could we have made things easier for people or more inviting for people so that was a great um natural thing that occurred watching people galvanize together to celebrate the book and also to expand upon it and so there's been a lot of that a lot of people on twitter share stuff or x whatever we're calling it these days and um it's been rewarding to see people take to it that much and then of course we launched the heroes v show this fall i think we're four episodes in as of recording tonight's our our new episode and amazing um watching people react to it in that format is really interesting because it's kind of developed a new set of eyes and a new audience beyond the people that maybe discovered the book.

58:44How are we seeing the show? Is it streaming on the streamer? So D &D has a D &D Adventures channel, which is just D &D exclusive content. And that's on Amazon Freebie and Plex. It's really easy to find on Plex. And they're just constantly streaming D &D content. And the old animated show, which I love, the old D &D Saturday morning cartoon, which is wonderful. so there's a lot of cool content on there but every monday night is a new episode of europe's feast based on our book it's really neat were you on set for the photo shoot at all yes so i would attend um we kind of i was i for the first book i was there almost the entire time and did our location stuff the second book uh we kind of divvied up the tasks a little bit we did this wonderful shoot up at a castle which i had located at the tail end of the first book i was like we're going to do a second one we got to level up it can't just be back to a tavern right i found it and i kept pressuring everybody for two years to shoot this castle they proved to shoot at the castle and it lined up exactly with when i had to go to europe last winter to shoot um some stuff for the dnd documentary so i couldn't even make the trip to the castle i had locations gathered which was unfortunate but the photography is exquisite yeah and it's really inviting what we wanted to do with this book was pull you into the world it's not to take you out of it and remind you of the familiar things or make name plays or like wookie cookie type stuff we wanted to make you feel like you stepped into this world if you're having a game night you could invigorate your tabletop because look there's so much shared between tabletop cooking dining and dungeon dragons you gather around the table it's four or five six people conversation and food are at the center of it yeah we're not combined those two so um yeah i got to be a part of it and that was that's great because what you want to do is imbue those photos with little details and easter eggs and make sure that every part of the lighting what is the lighting in this location you know and that's a big part of it if you're in the underdark you can't have a certain type of light available so you have to be aware of all these things when you're in these different settings and book two flavored of the multiverse takes us through seven different planets essentially seven different dnd uh playable settings um so there's there's there's a wider breadth of visuals it's it's a it's a stunning book and you know i think it really changed the way i thought about doing like a crossover so to speak book where you know it doesn't feel you know corny or overly branded it feels like you're built in universe so i agree with you fully love the book it's you guys should feel very proud of it it's terrific i'll be honest with you about something so about i don't know six seven years ago i was in a barnes and noble or a holiday time i saw a themed cook yeah and i picked it up and i was like i think even took a picture of it maybe like put it on social media what the heck is this you know i just couldn't wrap my i was like this is this is jumping the shark this is very bad i would imagine yeah and then a few years later i here i am writing one and so passionate about it and fully believing in it and i me myself i had to come i love the idea i love all aspects of it but i think when the idea of it first came up we we were all like is this too much are we in and it clearly it wasn't because once we started going we could not stop we have a database of like another 200 recipes that have come from our research.

1:02:17And I just feel like there's so much more to mine and explore. And so much of it is curating and balancing saying, well, we can only have this many breads, we have to save these, we can only have this many desserts. So it's a very vibrant culinary world that we just can keep mining. It's one of them. I'm sure you'll be back on the show talking about other books. I love it so much. I want to segue you you direct uh music videos you've worked with Taylor Swift on several what's food like on set with Taylor Swift

1:02:48uh Taylor Swift's awesome um yeah definitely she's great no I got to know her really well she's actually godmother to um my second born wow and live with her for a little bit she just loves life lives life follows her culinary uh passions and instincts she likes to cook um it's food on set um you know it's it's more or less traditional set food but you know you i wouldn't say it's anything out of the ordinary but you know she's somebody that's just like if she wants something you know it's just like go for it um that was my experience with me all right fair enough i mean i i think it sounds like she's probably just a down down to business you don't have that much time but when you're living with taylor swift it's cool like and and you're close are you guys like cooking together at all what's the vibe like at the time it was years ago but we had yeah and it was you know um yeah yeah i mean she she she cooks she's a a domesticated person you know i mean she bakes she loves that stuff you've been a good sport i i rarely uh get to talk to taylor swift like you know for you know one level uh way so that's that's just for our Taylor Swift fans.

1:04:01Appreciate you being a good sport there. Um, you know, let me, let me ask you though, um, about future projects, um, you know, with, and you're, you're a showrunner and producer. So I just, I'm going right to the source here, you know, with the success of the show, the bear, and I'm not sure if you've actually watched that show, but it seems as real tailwinds for like food related drama and scripted television. Are you interested in doing that work at all now that you've written two cookbooks you're clearly in the game absolutely i you know i when i approach any um media or potential projects i don't put any stigma on it or judgment if there's a way for me to bring out an aspect of myself and make it better than what i'm what someone's handing me and not just say i can do this i almost want to make something better than uh than before i got involved so i can improve it or add a dimension to it i'm in it doesn't matter if it's an unscripted show it doesn't matter if it's a movie it doesn't matter if it's kids entertainment um i'm open to anything i think you know with with the books and stuff uh you know people why are you making books if you're a filmmaker but i love this stuff and it's a part of me so it was part of my youth and it formed me so why not revisit it what's the there's no there's no fault in it and and if you can make a high quality product then that's all that matters and and with penguin behind us and 10 speed we felt like they weren't trying to jam something through like gd's big go jam a book out quick you know it felt like we want the preeminent cookbook themed cookbook ip-based cookbook we want it to look beautiful we're not gonna pull back in any way you guys are the experts on the subject matter what would make the most authentic immersive beautiful experience and we were liberated and encouraged in that way and that's why we've gotten to do more and we have another product coming next year and hopefully more of the cooking show and you know two books so it's become its own little thing and that's because i think they've unleashed us and empowered us to embrace it and not look at it just so much like a product but more like let's make something special for the people who love this game i love to hear that it's definitely the wave 10 speed to work with um you know creators in a very authentic way so i appreciate that you say that um do you watch the bear at all have you have you checked it out i have seen like right when it came out i saw the first two episodes and then i hadn't been able to get back to i know there's subsequent seasons i liked when i saw great energy to it i love the way they photograph the show yeah i love the cast on the show but it's a little raw in my just in my memory because it was a few years back or two years ago the first season came out yeah i think i watched the first two back to back and then i was gonna i had every intention to keep going because i liked it it's just one of those things where you i'm so behind on so many you're watching a lot of stuff you're making stuff so you can't really keep up with everything okay there's but it's one of those ones that's like sticks with you i definitely want to go back and watch it um there's few things that you know there's so much out there there's few things that keep me interested maybe it's because i have this passion for food and yeah it is really well made um so yeah i don't know where they're at now in season two or anything yeah well they just got a bunch of golden globe nominations so they're doing okay in that category okay on this is taste we asked guests about their discerning taste so to close this interview here's a little rapid fire fast and furious taste check.

1:07:37Are you ready? Okay, the best breakfast food. Bacon. I love the answer. I love it so much. Well done. A little bit under. How are you doing it? I like it a little bit under. I like those fatty edges. Right on. I'm with you. We align. Good choice. I think crispy bacon is not good. You've kind of destroyed the beauty of bacon. There's that line, and it gets crossed so quickly. You've got about 10 seconds. so true i love that the best dessert cinnamon buns i don't know i'm going blank on dessert why am i going blank it's all right it's not ice cream no i like ice cream and i have a sweet tooth but there's something ordinary about stuff like that i i like a good pie yeah yes a good warm pie fair enough good call your favorite american fast food chain i do love mcdonald's french fries true goat absolutely chick-fil-a has got a good chicken sandwich absolutely i love the chick-fil-a sandwich that's about it with them your favorite la jersey mike's jersey mike sandwiches is i do like that and go fast food from the new jersey connection respect it the original one is 10 minutes from where i would go to the jersey shore oh i love it your favorite la restaurant right now I like a little tiny sushi spot that's near my neighborhood called studio sushi it's not fancy it's simple the sushi is consistently great and I don't know what more I need you know I'm kind of simple when it comes to restaurants I'm not always chasing the fanciest or the most complicated or most fusion i i want to know that what i get is is done well done with care it feels like it's family i like that i i don't i'm i'm not uh snooty when it comes to all that respect when i go to studio city i go to daikon daikon the little izakaya really cute inside i love that place that's okay i ate there recently and that's wonderful yeah it's cute um a few more Do you have a favorite cookbook?

1:09:47I don't know what it is. I had one in my parents' house growing up, and it was just like one of those classic ones. From then, it was probably a 50s cookbook. Yeah. Reprinted in the 60s. They had them still in our kitchen in the 80s. It was one of those ones that was so thick, almost like an encyclopedia, but it had everything. And I kind of like that. I know niche is the thing, and I know people want it all to be aimed and focused. but I like that having one tool right by the counter, you can open up and kind of get a little bit of everything. Yeah. Those days are gone. I feel like, uh, I don't even know what the name of it was.

1:10:25Is it Betty Crocker? It's not like you're describing Betty Crocker a little bit. Maybe it was Betty Crocker. It just didn't, it wasn't jammed with a lot of pictures. It was just, you know, very utilitarian and straight forward. Last question. Your favorite sandwich. Yes. Right now I'd go for a Philly cheesesteak. respect good call do you put whiz or do you put regular slices it depends on the place i would trust the i would trust the the vendor um if i'm making it myself i'd probably go slices um but i love it when a when a vendor does it there's a spot i loved up in new haven connecticut called louis lunch and you know it was like yeah the early burger and the way they would approach jesus like i trust them i'm gonna do their thing so good spot whatever establishment i'm stepping into.

1:11:12If it's recommended, I'm just going to go with it. I love it. Kyle Newman, thank you so much for joining us as Taste. Thank you so much. This is great.

1:11:24This is Taste is hosted by Matt Rodbard and me, Eliza Abarbanel. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things happening.