340: Jermaine Stone

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0:31it's so fun opening bottles with rappers because uh it's something when you speak the same language as someone you know with um with any form of education you have to meet people where they are so if we relate on a certain level i know exactly where i need to meet you to bring you along This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbarg.

0:59Jermaine Stone has an extraordinary story on how a flute job at a wine warehouse led to his very unique place in the wine world. He's the host of Street Somme on Tastemade, a show that interviews some of the biggest names in hip-hop about all things wine. He's also the founder of Crew Love Selections, a New York-based wine branding and marketing agency dedicated to engaging hip-hop fans in, you guessed it, the world of wine. Man, it's so fun having Jermaine in the studio, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.

1:39Jermaine Stone, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you? I'm great, man. Thank you for having me. It's real cool to have you in here, and I've watched your show on Tastemade, which is available on streaming channels and on demand. Tastemade just hits me sometimes. Oh, yeah. Tastemade, the team there is amazing. The channel is amazing. All the talent is amazing. Your boy is on there now, so you know how we do. Oh, definitely. I mean, Dale Tallday, my guy. That's my man. Yo, he's hilarious. Very funny man. He's hilarious. Very funny man. And if you haven't been to Goose Feather, his restaurant up in Westchester, it's so good.

2:10I'm glad you reminded me about that. I got to hit Dale up. I need to pull up over there. Hit them up. All right. So, Jermaine, I'd like to get into your story. You worked at Zaki's, which is a famous Westchester wine retailer, an auction house. And that experience working there led to your life as a SOM, as a wine educator. But what's it like working at Zaki's and then getting introduced to wine? It was really fun. You know, when I got into Zaki's, I was really young. I started when I was 20 years old. I'd never had like a quote unquote real job before that. And you're in this exploratory phase in your life.

2:42Everyone at Zaki's was really cool. It was a cultural exchange in a lot of ways, but I had plans on being a rapper before I got into the wine business. I've been rapping since I was 12, so I was already pretty deep in there. And when I began working in Wine Auction, I realized that all of the things that a lot of the rappers were talking about, I was experiencing and being around. Because so often in hip-hop, they talk about that high life. They talk about wine. You know, Biggie rapped about Escargot. Like our go. Exactly. You know, so I was in restaurants with mandolins and violins and stuff.

3:17So I'm like, wow, this is the stuff these rappers were talking about. So hip hop is, interestingly enough, what got me interested in wine and made me feel like I could be a part of that audience. But it was a lot of fun. And everyone at Zaki's was really, really open and accepting. So you were, you know, taking courses there. Tell me about what's the education like when you're working at Zaki's? What's it like getting into the world of wine and tasting so much wine? See, you know what it's like, man. Imagine being thrown in the water with both feet. Totally. And told to swim. No, but, you know, when I began, it was really just about figuring your way out.

3:50You know, auction was still something that was pretty new to the company at that time. And a lot of my time there was spent helping to develop, like, logistics programs. I started as an operations guy. So managing logistics, shipping, importing, exporting, those were where I started out. But the way that I was really trained was sitting with the best winemakers, sitting with the most notable collectors and learning from them. And so I really had a very hands on education in that and constantly needing to apply it all throughout my career. Oh, man. And, you know, your career is so cool. You run festivals, you have the show, you write.

4:34I mean, your knowledge is deep and I just love it. I mean, I love it because you've got such a cool attitude. You're very easy on the mic. You really are a great speaker of wine. So let's get into some wine talk. Yes, sir. Americans, I feel, are conditioned to buy the grape, which is like kind of a disservice. Like buy Malbach, buy Sauvignon Blanc. And, you know, they vary vastly depending on where they're grown. So are we getting better at understanding how wine is actually made? I feel so. I do feel that way. And when you think about where American culture is right now, everyone wants to like, even when you think about food, people want to know where their food's from.

5:14You go to these restaurants and you hear stories about this, the ham is from this farm and this is the, it was grass fed. Like things like that are things that are culturally accepted and understandable right now. Wine, as you know, is very much a product of its environment. So one of the things that I do with comparing wine and hip hop is using the similarities in how hip hop is a product of its environment and trying to translate that over to wine. Where, you know, I can listen to drill music from Chicago and drill music from London and I can hear it as a difference. Why? It's because of all the growing elements around the conditions that this style came from.

5:57So the slang there is different. Linguistically, they're rap different there. There's a lot more metaphor driven than a lot of the drill rap here in the States. So those are different characteristics that I can talk about and say, hey, these are the characteristics of this style of drill from this place. However, you can get drill music in Chicago, New York, Brooklyn, you know, and even that drill music in Brooklyn and the Bronx. It sounds different. Right. So just like hip hop, wine is a product of its environment. Yeah. And that's something that I've tried to communicate. And I see that it has been a pretty receptive.

6:36It's been a pretty receptive message. I've noticed that areas like Oregon are blowing up a lot more and people know why they want to drink wine in Oregon. You know that you want Chardonnay in Oregon. You know you want Pinot in Oregon. So I think that it's beginning to catch. And wine culture here in America is developing in a cool way. Well, yeah, we see it in many different forms. We see it in, obviously, during the bubble in the NBA 2020 season. Wine just popped off. They talk about all those wine packages that were going in there. They were shipping some things into the bubble. And wine was one of them.

7:10Such a fun time. I mean, but also just thinking about the way your show and many others talk about wine and like making it less boring, making it less snobby, but obviously having deep interest in wine. So I got to ask you, have you cracked a bottle with an NBA guy or a rapper of note? Oh, yeah, man. A few. Let me see who's one of my homeboys. Tony Parker. You know, I've drunk with Tony a few times, man. He's a really cool dude, genuinely loves wine, extremely knowledgeable about wine and someone that came into it from a point of interest. It was interesting speaking to him. You think about someone like Greg Popovich, right, who's the NBA wine goat.

7:50You hear the legends of his cellar. And it was just cool to even talk to Tony like, hey, how did your mutual love for wine affect your relationship off the court and how did it affect it on the court? and he's it's just really cool to get that insight of how that was able to translate but yeah man NBA and Channing Frye too that's my man shout out to Channing. Yeah Channing School so what are you opening with Tony and and Greg I mean Popovich is is legend to have a stellar and and just even in San Antonio that guy like runs has so many great wines coming in San Antonio. Oh yeah yeah um Tony likes uh Bordeaux yeah you know he also likes rosé he has a rosé uh he got champagne so we drink champagne yeah like that but yeah we usually drink a lot of bordeaux but you know it's it's interesting about tony and the players because you know there's these guys are obviously have as much money as you could ever imagine but but really you know it's about a what are you choosing to do in your spare time and many i think like lebron obviously goes to france every year or italy and does a big wine trip with these guys like like wade but like it's like these guys are choosing to experience wine and enjoy wine absolutely absolutely and you know what it is there's a culture around it, right?

9:00So often you're in a circle of influence. And when that circle of influence is pointing you in the right direction, then it can be super helpful. And I think that in the NBA, we've seen that there's a great circle of influence around wine culture that has started with older players and it's almost amplifying as it trickles down to more and more younger players. It's so interesting. I've had lots of wine folks on the show, Jancis Robinson, Alice Firing, Talia Baioki, Andrea Mack, John Bonet. I got to ask them all of this question. I want to ask you, like, what is up with natural wine? I feel confused the more I read.

9:37And, you know, I'm just always like, what is going on with natural wine? You know, I think it's so it's interesting that you mentioned that because natural wine can and it's wild that sometimes natural wine can be a bit of a touch point. It might be a hot button issue sometimes. Totally. It's like people used to feel that it was a love it or hate it thing. But, you know, there have always been so many different winemaking practices that have involved it. I think that marketing, as always, kind of jumps in and screws some stuff up. Then you get people behind it that, you know, you're kind of made to feel that you're not doing the right thing if you're not drinking.

10:16You know, so I think that sometimes people can let their personal opinions and judgments go on to certain things. My thing is just drink what you like. Indeed. You know, that's how I say it. You know, don't think about energy that might come with something. Don't think you're better than someone because you're drinking this or just drink what you like. Do you have any favorite natural wine producers or bottles or anything that comes to mind when I say the word natural wine that we got to seek out? Not necessarily. Now, I'm going to keep it real with you, man. I'm more of an old world type of guy.

10:48Yeah, yeah. You know, it's where I came in. You know, I came in through the wine auction world drinking old world wines. Yeah. So that was where my love really popped off. I am someone that's incredibly open to everything. You know, I drink everything. But, yeah, I'm more of an old world guy. Like grower champagnes and, like, you're talking about burgundies. Oh, yeah. Those kind of guys. Grower champagne. Like, I love, like, Savart. I love Savart champagne. pain, you know, and of course the Burgundy, my peoples out there. Shout out to my dog, Jeremy Sace, the entire gang out there, Dominic Lafayne, all my peoples.

11:22And, you know, my other AKA that I haven't debuted very much, I debuted it out there, but the lost son of Burgundy, man. You know, I feel like I really am the lost son of Burgundy. My favorite varietals thrive there, Pinot Chardonnay. And also the mentality there is just as complex as the wine. They're very simple farmers, but enjoy nice things and also are not hung up by them. I love it. It's more so an appreciation. So the mindset and culture of the people and the wine style fit me perfect. And I love Escargot. Oh, definitely. The culinary side, you can't imagine. What about Chateauneuf-de-Pop?

12:02Do you ever drink any like those old Grenaches? Oh, of course. Of course. You know, and it's, again, one of those things where like that was my upbringing. Yeah. You know, so this is I always say I had a backwards wine education because, you know, where many times people start out drinking, you know, a whole bunch of just widely mass produced cabs or whatever. I started out drinking like a lot of fine wine. That was how I was introduced to it. So sometimes, you know, someone goes out and buys a bottle of two buck Chuck and then they say like, oh, OK, well, I don't like Chardonnay, you know, and that's not the most accurate.

12:41Unfair to the grape. Right. Let's give her respect. Exactly. So I was very fortunate to start out drinking really well and come into it from a great perspective and open my mind up from there. So, Jermaine, we get invited as writers and food people and wine people on these trips, like junkets they call them sometimes now. Or just like we get sent by our publications. But let me ask you, you got to have some wild stories about traveling for wine. take me and our listeners to a place where you were there where it happened i i got some stories i can tell you some off air some more totally man but uh but um no let's see uh while this trip interestingly enough i'd say it had to be um recently you know i did a i did an event out at uh, Claude de Vujo and we had, I mean, call it, you know, most big Burgundian winemakers that you would want.

13:40You'd see Jean-Marc Rouleau under the DJ booth pouring his wine, right? But the event, uh, that we were there for, it just in itself was insane. You know, Claude de Vujo, 900 year old castle built by monks. They've never played rap music there, you know? So, uh, it was a 500 person event we actually ended up getting up to 510 people sold out in 24 hours that's nice we had break dancers locally from burgundy from the from the burgundy uh the hip-hop dance school of burgundy they came through we had so they were break dancers mike d from the beastie boys dj'd oh wow oh yeah jiles peterson came up from london he dj'd and then i also brought my dj from the u.s and then randomly i'm not sure if you're familiar with french hip-hop but mc solar Of course I know MC Solar MC Solar came to the event And Najat showed up at the event Had such a great time He came up to the booth and asked Like yo can I spit a freestyle And then me and MC Solar Start rocking the DJ booth So it was a lot of fun And by the end of the night For me the highlight was to perform A Beastie Boys song with Mike D Stop which one?

14:52No Sleep Till Brooklyn Yeah it's a good one It's easy to remember And like you know You can hold up your part And you get that call and response thing from the crowd was it and then also when uh when mc solar went up and rocked i was also we did some fun stuff some old school hip-hop hit him with that hola hola hey like get the crowd oh yeah it was just a lot of fun i mean it was the best party i've ever been to in my life i need to watch this episode and i remember mc solar had a great guest on a jazmatazz with guru yeah and that guy i remember back when that came out i was like this french guy is good yeah no he he is and such a nice guy and genuinely enjoys wine, which he came in for fun.

15:33You know, he didn't come to perform. It was so that was that was a special moment. But I have some pretty crazy trips. Yeah. No, it sounds like you're living a good life. Let me ask you just in general, like, how can we be better wine drinkers? Walk into it with no preconceived notions, really. You know, the thing about wine is, you know, they call it a wine tasting for reasons. You know, you learn about wine by trying different things, jumping outside of the box. As wine drinkers, we understand how vastly different regional styles of the same varietal can be, but also just winemaking styles can also be.

16:10So the key is to never go into anything. And I mean, honestly, you should never judge a book by its cover. Definitely not. People always do, you know. So I think that the key to growing as a wine drinker is just constantly, constantly trying new things and pushing your palate. That's really the only way it'll develop. When I started out drinking wine, like many other people, I started out drinking the sweet stuff. But as I continue to drink, your palate kind of gets a little tired of it and you want something new. I moved on from Moscato to Riesling to Shiraz. You know, and then that after I got into Shiraz was really when I was like, oh, wow, this things kind of opened up because prior to starting out, I didn't have the context in my palate to really develop a good opinion.

16:59So after getting that context from tasting and tasting, you start to want more. That's a good point. And I love that you talk about starting sweet because it's truly how everyone starts. Of course. Like, you're not drinking, you know, an ultra-dry Riesling on your first hit. You're drinking something a little sweeter because we as Americans, as drinkers, we love sweet things. Yeah. I mean, totally. You know, you think about when you have a wine that's a lot more fruity and opulent. We call that approachable, right? So why is it approachable? Because it's easy to understand. If I was putting an album out, I'm not going to put this deep contextual song out first.

17:37First, I'm going to put a catchy hit single that'll grab people and bring them in so that they listen to the entire album and have the context to enjoy that deeper song. So people can't hate on Sweet Wine, man. And look, every time and a place for everything. I still listen to Young MC from time to time. Respect, respect. You know, but I like my Jay-Z albums, too. Yeah, definitely. Your favorite Kanye album? Favorite Kanye album? I've been talking about this off mic with some people, so I just wanted to get your take away. I'm going to say I got to go with it. I like the old Kanye. Yeah. So I have to go with College Dropout.

18:09That was just a moment in my life. It's definitely true. You know, I bought that album not just for myself, but then it was so good. I bought it for like four other friends just to say, you have to hear this. Yeah, it was a big moment. And I also agree. I like the old Kanye. I'll just say, I like Yeezus for the record. Yeah, yeah. No, Yeezus is a dope one. Interestingly enough, I recently got back into that. I was listening to like Blood on the Leaves. So good. There's a lot. There's a lot of. He's a genius, man. He is. You know, that was a moment. And with Daft Punk, the album I thought was was probably his best workout.

18:41Pablo's probably number two for me. But the early work is good. Definitely. You just were in Houston. You were at an event hosting an event with Bum B. We were talking about him. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mike, what? Let me ask you about just opening bottles with rappers, because this is your lane. Oh, yeah. Jermaine. You know, it's so fun opening bottles with rappers because, one, you can see that there's been a budding curiosity for a while, but maybe they haven't felt as comfortable and had things explained to them in the way that I'm explaining it to them. It's something when you speak the same language as someone, you know, with any form of education, you have to meet people where they are.

19:20So if we relate on a certain level, I know exactly where I need to meet you to bring you along to where I'd like you to meet me. Yeah, exactly. But it's really, I was drinking with Dave East. Yeah. And we had a bottle of 95 Krug. And the first thing that he said was like, hmm, this tastes like Chris. And then, you know, as we know, like Chris style is aged before it's even released. So every time you're drinking a bottle of Cristal, you're drinking older Cristal. And the fact that he was able to pick up on the complexities that you would get with aging and say, hey, this is similar to what I've tasted before.

20:00Now I can open that up and say, well, this is why you're tasting it this way. Now he has an understanding of what complexity is and what happens to wine as it's aged, which is something that like people tell you, oh, the older the wine, the better, which is, as we know, not always the case. Especially if it's turnt, you know, if it's like not good, if it's like a bad bottle, obviously you kind of lost. Exactly. You waited too long. Yeah. Or maybe it's off vintage. There's so many different, maybe it wasn't kept well. Yep. You know, there's so many different things. But to be, and I think that complexity is definitely one of those things that can always be a little difficult to explain to someone that's, you know, not a seasoned wine drinker.

20:40But, you know, as I got some good friends that always say, I can show you better than I can tell you. I love that line. It's been fun to see people's opinions on it change. What about good wine in the studio? Oh, man. Because you think of like the studio is like a real, like that's an important moment to have like various sundries, including the best drink possible. Because that's when the shit's going down. Oh, definitely. What about, who has the best wine in the studio? You know, a lot of times I bring the good wine to the studio. Of course. Interestingly enough. But for me, it's also fun hanging out with like lower underground rappers that are really still in the streets doing battles and drinking wine with them.

21:19We talked about Savoir earlier. I was in the studio with a friend of mine. Shout out to my man, Oom P. And this guy is like an active battle rapper right now. And we were drinking some Savoir. It was one of their Grand Cru wines. And I was showing him like, OK, Grand Cru grapes means it's like the best ones. This dude went in the studio. Pardon me, he went in the booth. And the next line that he said, I don't remember what he said first, but then he was like, now it's Grand Cru grapes when we drink champagne. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so those are the sorts of things that I enjoy doing. And, you know, I know that the same way I was inspired by Biggie saying Escargot and all that stuff, there's going to be another younger Jermaine out there somewhere wanting to taste Grand Cru champagne.

22:02Oh, sure. And having a little bit of a taste. Exactly. And that's really what I do it for. Jermaine, the best place to drink wine in New York. Where are you going? Wow, that's fantastic. Yeah, I know. I don't want none of my friends to hate me. But I will say there's lots of great places, but I do spend a lot of time at Parcell Wine Bar hanging out there. Shout out to my man Grant, my man Terrence. The best fits, too, in Parcell, obviously. Like the best fits in New York. Oh, 100%. 100%. Real downtown scene. Vibe is so cool. The music is cool. And the team there is cool. But the selection is amazing.

22:36They know where to get the good stuff. Yeah, Parcell's great. I like that choice. What about Los Angeles? Do you have a spot in L.A.? Are you an L.A. guy? I'm not sure. No, no. I'm in L.A. a lot, actually. So the West Side Wino's. I'm not sure if you're familiar with those guys. No, I don't know that guy. They're really cool dudes. And they're actually into natural wine a lot. They have this place, Offhand Wine Bar. It's a new spot for them that's really, really cool. I, of course, also still go back to Wally's in Beverly Hills from time to time. The last time I was there. Wally's is really, really tight.

23:06Oh, yeah. I like that place. You know what you're going to get there. You're going to find what you want there. But when I just got back from L.A. last week, and I had some time in Wally's. Yeah, absolutely. On This Is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire. Fast and Furious Taste check. Are you ready? Ready for it. Let's go. All right. The best breakfast food? Bacon, egg, and cheese. The best wine with breakfast? Champagne. If I'm drinking bacon, egg, and cheese, I'm going to do champagne. And I have champagne for breakfast quite a lot.

23:35I mean, listen, it's definitely on brand and why not? The best dessert. Best dessert. I like apple pie. But it got to be like real apple pie. Personally, I make amazing apple pie from scratch. All of it. But yes, apple pie. The best wine with dessert. Best wine with dessert. I'm going to go with port. I like port and dessert. So I did some port and Easter bun. As a Jamaican, you get the, they got the little, It's like a cinnamon bun thing. Got kind of all spice all up in there. It sounds nice. Oh, yeah. It goes amazing with pork. I love that. Your favorite American fast food chain? Oh, man. All right, y 'all.

24:15Don't judge me. Nah. McDonald's, man. I do. Those fries still get me. It's number one for me, man. It's weird. Sometimes, like, you tell somebody you eat McDonald's or you show up with a McDonald's bag, they're like, listen, don't hate, man. It's okay. It's okay. If you're rolling with a BK bag, yes. Yeah. That's a little hate. Yeah. Like you went to BK, like, no, no, no, no, no. But are you one to pair wines with fast food, with McDonald's? Oh, 100%. I mean, I pair wine with pretty much everything that I eat, to be honest with you. Before Street SOM, I had another show where I was pairing food and wines called Tasting Notes from the Street.

24:51Oh, right, right, right. And an episode that has never come out. I was actually pairing, what was I pairing with McDonald's French fries? Actually, it was champagne. Yeah. And that was more so because I wanted to show people an idea of what a quintessential pairing was. And so, but yes, I did McDonald's. The episode has never come out. So, you know, y 'all don't go looking for it. Wait, when's it coming out? It's shelved? Yeah, that's shelved. We on the street side now. You know, we've elevated. Yeah, you've gone to a different brand. Now I'm going to Trill Burger's and doing pairing. God, I love Trill Burger.

25:24I'm glad you went there. Oh, that place is great. And again, it's - That episode was really cool. So actually, we did a wine pairing in the studio with Bun B. So I actually got to chill in the studio with him to do our pairing. We did like a fried lobster. But then, and you guys should really go check out the Houston episode. I actually brought back my old rap roots, and I rapped in the episode and destroyed it. Wait, you absolutely, under pressure, you threw some bars down. Oh, I always got bars. When you stay ready, you don't got to get ready, you know? I always got bought. Yo, did you share the stage with anybody during your rapping days?