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Podcast Summary: This Is TASTE - Episode 342: Doobydobap & Pierce Abernathy
Podcast Overview Title: This Is TASTE Host: Aliza Abarbanel and Matt Rodbard Description: Conversations about food, cookbooks, and culture featuring interesting personalities in the food media space.
Episode Details Guests:
- Tina Choi: Creator of the YouTube channel Doobydobap, known for her engaging food content and unique storytelling style.
- Pierce Abernathy: Trained cook, TikTok and Instagram creator, and former BuzzFeed contributor, recognized for his work in food media and fashion.
Key Takeaways
Tina Choi's Journey with Doobydobap
- Content Creation: Tina describes her YouTube channel Doobydobap as a personal vlog where she shares cooking experiences and showcases her life, focusing on the authenticity of her content.
- Food Science Background: Tina studied food science at Cornell University, which helped her understand the mechanics behind cooking, although she expresses a stronger connection to the artistic side of cooking.
- Korean-American Cuisine: Tina discusses the differences between Korean-American cuisine and authentic Korean dishes, emphasizing how the popularity of certain foods varies between the two cultures (e.g., Soondubu).
Pierce Abernathy's Experience
- Modeling and Cooking: Pierce shares insights into balancing his modeling career with his passion for food. He emphasizes how social media has helped him explore this dual interest.
- Food Creation in Pandemic: He started creating TikTok videos during the pandemic, focusing on simple dishes like dips to connect with an audience, leveraging his film background for high-quality content.
- Dinner Parties: Pierce advocates for the significance of dinner parties as a means of fostering relationships and sharing hospitality in a way that restaurant dining cannot replicate.
Culinary Insights Cultural Connections to Food
- Korean Cuisine in America vs. Korea: Tina articulates that while certain dishes are popular in the U.S., they may not hold the same status in Korea, noting the evolving landscape of Korean-American food.
- Food and Community: Both guests emphasize the importance of community and cultural identity through food, reinforcing how cooking can bridge gaps between personal and cultural histories.
Discussion of Trends
- Cafe Culture in Korea: Tina mentions the growing trend of butter in Korean cooking, highlighting the fusion of traditional and modern culinary practices.
- Dinner Parties' Resurgence: Pierce argues against the notion that dinner parties are a dying trend; instead, he sees them as a vital expression of hospitality and connection.
Future Aspirations
- Tina's Cookbook Goals: Tina expresses her desire to write a cookbook focused on fermentation and the cultural significance of Korean cuisine, aiming to thread history and storytelling through recipes.
- Pierce's Cookbook Concept: Pierce envisions a cookbook that connects different flavors and culinary elements, creating a resource that helps home cooks explore diverse pairings.
Conclusion Episode 342 of *This Is TASTE* offers compelling narratives from Tina Choi and Pierce Abernathy, illustrating the intersection of food, culture, and media in contemporary society. Their stories reflect a shared passion for cooking, community engagement, and the evolving nature of culinary identity in both personal and public spheres.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. Resi is a digital platform that connects restaurants to restaurant lovers by elevating dining experiences, providing original industry content, and helping to fill some of the country's most exciting dining rooms. Because restaurants have always been more than just places to eat. The amazing world of restaurants is just a few taps away in the Resi app and at resi.com.
0:31The biggest difference that I find is that Korean American food, it's kind of the food that's served in Korean restaurants in America. And the dishes that are more popular here are not necessarily dishes that are really popular back home. I think I've had better Soondubu in America than versus Korea. up.
0:52This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard.
0:59Here are two classic conversations from This is Taste. Tina Choi is the soul-based genius behind one of my favorite food YouTubes around, Doobie Doobop. Pierce Abernathy is a trained cook, a big-time TikTok and Instagram creator, and he's been known to model a bit too. These are two of my favorite recent conversations, and I hope you enjoy them.
1:45I mean, we'll get into why I love Doobie Doobop so much, your persona, your vlog. I hate that word, but it says something specifically. But I've known about you for a long time from TikTok, and I love so much about what you do as a creator. I mean, I like that you're telling us about Soul City. I love visiting, and we'll talk about that as well. But you also are really good at cooking. You're so good. I'm really not, but thank you. I'm honored. I'm very, like, I'm blushing so hard, which is such a shame to not be able to see on a podcast setting. But yes, I'm very, very flattered. Thank you for saying those things.
2:19Well, I want to ask you, what makes a really great doobie doobop video? I'm talking about the long form, not the TikTok cuts. But, you know, you go sometimes as long as 30 minutes and you talk about how you're feeling. It's really, really, really important. And I just wanted to get like, how do you think about creating these videos? Vlogs for me is a bit of a glimpse into my life. So I try and keep it very raw and real. If, you know, the short form content is something that I curate and I have the stories kind of written now, it's edited, I record it over and over so that it's 59.9 seconds for YouTube shorts.
2:57Vlogs for me is like a place where I can be creative and really start experimenting. I feel like vlogs were a baby that, you know, I didn't think that it was going to survive, but it survived and it's healthy and it's just forever going to be my treasure. So it's definitely like my most prized, I guess, creation and something that's the most real. Yeah. And like when did you know you had a thing? Like when did you know like this was viable? Like was there a theme or topic that you covered in an episode that you're like, wow, this really is resonating? I think that's kind of difficult because it's difficult for me to answer because I never knew when it was really viable.
3:41Like even like two, three months ago, I wasn't sure. I'm always a bit anxious. Like, oh, I don't even know if this is a real job. You know, even my parents also, they were apprehensive even now. But I think for me, it was I knew it was kind of viable when I started getting really like consistent views, obviously. Good feedback. And especially when I was like walking around New York and people started recognizing me. and I would be like, you know me? And I would get super shy. I think it was just some of those indicators that like showed me that, okay, this is actually something, like this is a job for me.
4:23Like for me, it was always like a means of getting a job and that's how I started. But yeah, sometime along there, it transformed into full-time. Well, it's interesting. You've hired an employee, you've blogged about this and you have a clear studio mentality. You're creating content for yourself and maybe brands. But I wanted to go back because you are not this is not just you like you have a whole life beyond the vlog. And it goes back to attending Cornell University. You studied food science. And like, honestly, I've never had a food scientist on the show. But I when I went to the University of Wisconsin, that was my major going into school was food science.
5:04OK. I realized soon after the first week of Chem 103 that I was terrible at science. Like I had no idea. My education in high school was bad. But tell me, what is food science like at Cornell and what did you learn? And maybe how did this get you thinking about food in a different way? I think for food science, there's really like three ways, like three paths, I would say. So there's like food science, food science, the latter half written in italics. And it's really delving into the more science-y part of it. It's, you know, working in labs, the molecular stuff behind it, like bio, a lot of physics also.
5:43Also the mechanisms that are related with creating food and more of like the engineering aspect of it. And then there's food science safety. That's making sure that everything you're eating, everything you're grabbing from the grocery store is shelf stable and safe. And, you know, there's no pathogens so that everyone's happy consuming it. And then there's food science business, which is the more entrepreneurial side, you know, food startups, kind of looking into more consulting aspects of it, how food would be integrated in a grocery store setting, you know, emerging into a CPG, that whole stuff.
6:19And I've always been more interested in the food science business part of it. My biggest dream was to have a little stall in Union Square Farmer's Market and maybe sell my own kimchi. Like that was that was my biggest dream. Wow. When you were up in Cornell, you were coming down to New York and you were like, this is my future. And like this is like, you know, a few years back when kimchi and Korean food will get into the rise of Korean food in our culture in America. But like it wasn't as big, right? It was kind of more of a niche thing in a way. Yeah, for sure. Like even so I lived in Canada when I was very, very young from third grade to fifth grade.
6:55And like back then I was like the only Asian kid in my school and we had packed lunches. So very much a lot of what Asian Americans have felt. It was very like nerve wracking for me to always open the lunchbox. But now it's like totally different. Like Squid Game really like helped us. I'll ride that wave. Thank you, Black, Pink and Squid Game. But at Cornell, back to your career there and your time there, when you were studying the business aspect, But you were also, were you learning to cook? Like, was this something that you were starting to put the pieces together to become a cook that was beyond just like a home cook?
7:33To be honest, no. There was no really, like, there was not really like a cooking aspect of it. If anything, I felt more disconnected from food. Like, I saw food as more of as a chemistry or a biological aspect, like biology aspect of it than actually seeing it as an art. And I think that's also part of the reason why I got so drawn into the art side of it. I cooked during my free time. I've always been fascinated with cooking since high school and from an early age. I think I just always loved food, like just eating it more than cooking it. And I still am. I still think that I'm a much better eater and a gourmet than I am a cook.
8:10Yeah, I think that's most of us. My hand is raised in the air with that one. Now, you were at boarding school in Connecticut and you've written about the fact that you could not find Korean food in your town. So you started cooking in your room, your dorm. What were some of the dishes? Were there a few that you were trying to really master during boarding school? Every week, I would get together, all my friends, and we would chip in a certain amount. And I would cook for my friends. But honestly, they were kind of my guinea pigs at that point. I semi-forced them, you know, for the sake of our friendship.
8:41You need to have my, like, cooking. Like, you need to, like, this. Nothing from then that I'm very proud of. like a lot of it was just kind of learning how to cook. It was also just like learning how to host as well and all the different aspects involved with cooking, like plating, you know, or the different temperatures of food was not something that I like thought about. I remember one incident where I was making like kimchi burgers and I put the buns in the oven thinking, oh, it's going to warm up the buns. No, it was super crusty, like it was two croutons and a kimchi and like not so melted American cheese on top.
9:19And like people did not look happy. This is what$10 amounted to. So you were cooking, were you cooking ichiges? Were you doing any kind of large jangals, any large pots in your dorm room too? I did, but I got way too many complaints from my neighbors. And I was using the common room kitchen as well. So at some point, you know, we had a very uncomfortable dorm meeting. You know, there's some people cooking a lot in the dorm rooms. Some people, they're like looking not at you. Yeah. They're like looking around. No, I was literally just, you know, biting my nails, just like looking to the side. Not me, right?
9:52So after that, I tried to keep it a bit more contained. So more small bites and like cold food. That still didn't stop me from like loving cooking. How'd that make you feel? I mean, having this dorm meeting and having folks like look at you in a different way because of the smell or whatever. If you're cooking your food of your home, like how did it make you feel? I think that's when I obviously I was a bit self-conscious, but in a way I was also very like, you know what? I don't care. This is my food. And that's kind of my mentality for like don't yuck my yum, which was the catchphrase that I ran with TikTok in the beginning.
10:33like that has really set in. Yeah, like when I was younger and a bit more insecure about my food, I would hide. But now like I am proud, loud and proud. No, and I get that from every fiber of your being on the vlogs. I think that you're extremely proud and you're extremely skilled. And I just wanted to know about your background because it seems like you've grown and you've grown into this kind of role as like a real influencer for Korean food in the world. Yeah, it's still very surreal to me. I still don't consider myself a great cook. I think there's so many people who cook much better than I do.
11:11But what I do best is just like a mixture of these things. I can edit, I can shoot, I can cook a little bit, hopefully. Talk about Costco, do your makeup. I mean, there's so many cool things. Yeah, no, it's something that I'm still getting used to. I'm not 100 % comfortable, to be honest. There are times where I feel like, am I doing really a good job of representing it? This is food that I like, but it's not representative of the most authentic cuisine because I spent half my life in the US as well. So it is very much like a me cuisine, but I wouldn't say it's a Korean cuisine per se. Well, I see your food cooked like in my feed.
11:55I see people tagging you in my life, like, you know, my friends. I see you tag, like honestly. And I really appreciate that you're identifying this as your cuisine. And I'm interested – and let's get into this conversation now. I want to know Korean food in America, Korean-American cuisine versus Korea-Korea cuisine. It's a topic I think about a lot in the books I work with Dookie Hong on. But I'd love to get your take about the difference between the two. Yeah, I think the biggest difference that I find is that Korean-American food, it's kind of the food that's served in Korean restaurants in America.
12:35And the dishes that are more popular here are not necessarily dishes that are really popular back home. Like sundubu, for example, is, I think, a great example. Yes, very popular in Korea, but not as popular as it is in New York City for BCD Tofu House. It's not really a hip food that young people go for. It's very much an ajo-si food. And ajo-si is like an old man food. It's what you go grab during lunch break really quickly during winter because it's warm and spicy. But not really something that people eat on a regular. I think I've had better sundubu in America than versus Korea, like hands down.
13:12Oh, me too. I think BCD in LA and New York. I like Cho Dung-gul. They do great sundubu. Amazing. I love CDG with the burning passion. It's really great. And I just was there last weekend with my family. I have to ask, is there a dish that is like popping in Korea that maybe hasn't hit here? I mean, in the book Korea World, we have a whole section. We're trying to like answer this question. But for you, what's the reverse? I'm trying to think. I think it's a lot of the more interesting combinations that are like cafe culture, I would say, is like huge in Korea. so cafe culture in korea is like all about excess it's overindulgent it's a lot of butter and i think another thing that um uh when people are visiting they're surprised about is korea's love for butter like we um i use this quote that was used in bon appetit a while back but i think carla lolley music said this but butter is the best cheese and that's exactly how korean people feel right now.
14:15Like it's butter with red bean filling on pretzels and it's called aangbuto. And it's probably like the food to get. And there's just butter in everything right now. Like we, it feels like we almost just discovered it. Like cultured butter, like sweet cream butter, like Korea is really opening up to butter. Really interesting observation, Tina. And I I agree. My time in Korea, you think, okay, like dairy-free, you think the typical East Asian palate and not having a lot of dairy. But in Korea, it's on its head. I mean, absolutely, you see it everywhere. Same with the corndog. And I think that's an American food that has been exported to Korea but then reinvented in the most incredible – dude, it's like crazy, the corndogs in Korea.
15:01Yeah, and there's ones that are like just squid ink covered with a cross-section on the hot dog itself. So when it drops into oil, it like spreads like octopus legs. Like it's very, very creative. Like there's also like powdered cheese on top. It's a lot. I love it personally. I am not as in love with it. Just for me, I'm just like I personally, it's not hitting me hard. For me, I'm like more into like the deep bench of classic dishes. is like i'm more into like the gamja tongues of the world okay like that that to me is like what really strikes like as a food writer and just as a fan like these old school chigae and tongues and like to me that's like exciting i don't i mean that's just that's where i kind of look at it but i'm certainly not korean so i i don't have a different gaze i think i like both a lot like for me it's divided into so those kinds of like gamja tongue the ajoshi food that i say is what I crave probably like the day after I drink.
16:07Like I need a good soup, hangover soup to really just like cleanse me and I need to be like a little sweaty in the morning just so that, you know, the toxins go out. This is not scientific info. Like do not quote me on it, but I feel like it cures my hangover. But the corn dogs, it's like a guilty indulgence for me. Like it's what I crave when, you know, I just want to feel a little bit nostalgic. I just have really good memories. Like after school, I would go across the street and order like the corn dogs and the stringy mozzarella. And there's also this thing called fried Pikachus, which is tonkatsu that's really thinly battered.
16:45Like we don't know. Oh, yeah, that sounds amazing. We don't know what the meat inside is. Like I still don't know, but it was like around 50 cents or a dollar for like the nicer places. And it would be smothered in gochujang, sweet and sour gochujang sauce. And like those are reminiscent foods for me. So I like both. I don't know. As much as I like that OG Korean food, I also love like the junky, like kitschy aspect of it. Pizza. Is there good pizza in Seoul? I've asked a few folks. I think you know this answer. There's got to be—well, I'm leading the witness. Is there good pizza in Seoul? I think that you can find one of the best pizzas in Seoul.
17:21Wow. Yeah. Where? But it's really different types of pizza. Like there's obviously like Korean-style pizza, which is a bit thicker. The toppings— goes back to kind of overindulgent toppings um like with the sweet potato fillings and like the cheese crusts it's a lot but sometimes it hits you know is there a name is there a pizzeria that you i like in japan there's incredible neapolitan style pizza like savoy and other places like that are doing incredible pizzas but i've not encountered it in seoul but i know in korea i know it's there jackson pizza i would say it's like the food that i would order in and their greekology pizza it's With zucchini, eggplant, bell peppers, I think, and onions.
18:06I know it doesn't sound that good, but it's different and it's really good. And you also just don't feel like, oh, like I'm eating a pizza. I should be eating a pizza. Like you're getting a few veggies in. So it might be also like a mental thing as well. But definitely like something that I always like crave on a night out even. I'm going to check this out. I'm going to Korea as we're recording this in a few days. and we'll get into that. I have to ask you, are you down with some of the other YouTube creators? I mean, I love Wongi, I love Yummy Boy, Sung-Yuk. I think that's how I pronounce Sung-Yuk.
18:45Are you part of a community of creators? I'm going to be honest. I've been a little bit antisocial. It's also interesting because most of the creators that I know are America-based creators. so um yeah like i know all the la-based creators and the new york-based like food creators but also like on the flip side like korean creators don't really know about me like most of my audience is actually u.s based or uk and like anywhere that speaks english so i yeah i don't really um come in contact like nobody has contacted me that's really interesting so do you roll in seoul pretty anonymously then like relatively anonymously yeah i would say i am much less recognized in Korea than I am in New York.
19:28I even got recognized more while I was in Italy versus in Korea. So it's a bit interesting because all my content is in English. So it's a very different market. Like my YouTube analytics, if you look at it, it's like 0.1 % Korea. That's really interesting. It's very, very, it's like far down in the bottom. Yeah. From a business strategy, I'm curious, have you thought about doing some Korean language videos or is that something that you're not quite ready to do so i did do subtitles for a while and my written korean i would say is okay like yeah i feel like i've watched the right amount of korean entertainment shows where i can like use slang and be a little bit hip but not like a hundred percent i did try but i realized it's not like what i'm the most comfortable at and some of the jokes that I make are very like punny and based on American humor I grew up watching mostly Disney Channel um because my mom wanted my English to be good so I have all these like American pop references but I don't have them for Korea so I found myself pretty like uh yeah not being able to really be the best at telling the jokes that I like to tell in Korean so we'll see from now on like if I get another, if I get a Korean subtitler who is like well versed in both then we'll see I buried the lead one in Tringy, you're like funny as fuck dude, you're really hilarious, no I mean it, like you have punchlines, you have great comedic timing, you clearly have a future in acting and I think there's definitely some vibe there that kind of would translate, are you a fan of any American comedies or cooking shows like what about American cooking shows growing up I think Food Network was one thing that I watched all the time.
21:16Alton Brown has been a very, very influential figure for me. I would have his like Good Eat series on all the time. I think that's where my like interest for food science really sparked because it was the first cooking show where it wasn't a basic instructional cooking show, but more going into the science behind it. Like I loved science when I was growing up. Bill Nye also. Oh, yeah. Shout out Bill Nye the science guy. Yeah, also a Cornell grub. Oh, nice. So Alton Brown was definitely someone that I absolutely loved watching growing up. And obviously Ina Garten as well. What else? I'm trying to think.
21:55But a lot of YouTube, I would say. Like my generation, I would say I watched a lot of Munchies growing up. Like Vice. The more like the YouTube shows as well. So it was a good mix of both. Like Chef's Night Out. Yes, obviously. Yeah, Chef's Night Out, especially the early days. will go down as like real classic, like classic food TV. And I think it doesn't get as much respect because it's like YouTube. But anyone who's like read anything in a trade or like is looking with like has two eyes open, YouTube is the future of entertainment. Like clearly. I agree. Yeah. And for me, like another person that I forgot to say was Eddie Huang.
22:33Yeah. Was someone that when I first watched him, I was like, wow, this is like an Asian American personality that hasn't really been shown before and he was going around like showing like New York classics especially like Chinatown and the way he writes as well like I love his writing style and it's very personal very like dialogue driven and I love that I think that was like one of the shows that also like made me realize wow like cooking TV cooking shows can have like different people and like also people from like so many different backgrounds so that was something that like really kind of you know uh had uh light bulbs going off in my brain i was like wow this is this is crazy this is so great like such a great shout out to eddie wong i think double cup love is like such an underrated um memoir um it's his story about living in chengdu and there's some love love and loss in it and um eddie is a real one of one and i just i love his work too we share that love um oh cornell i have to ask you moosewood like what do you did you go there is that like a place that you go i i wonder because i know the books i rarely make it up to up there up to ithaca so i i don't know is that do you go there not really i don't think i like the it's not one of the places that i remember um to be completely honest moosewood not making it into the younger generation no it's i mean the the the books are are legendary and we you know that we published all the books at 10 speed but um yeah i have to get up there it's it's they were like one of the Preeminent vegetarian restaurants in America in like the 80s and 70s.
24:09Yeah. No, I remember where it is. It's kind of like in the center of Ithaca, like more closer down. Like it's down the hill. So anything down the hill, like, you know, going down is fine. But then we know that going up is kind of, you know, it's tough. So I would rarely make it down the hill. No, I know. As somebody who went to school in a great town that was outside of college, I didn't really go to the outside of college part of Madison, Wisconsin. So I know what you're saying. Yeah, I think we always went to like the more grimy places like Ithaca. I think it was called Wings Over Ithaca. You know, that was like I would go to the college spots like when I was there.
24:47There's actually surprisingly so many Korean restaurants in the college town, in the Cornell college town. I think there's like three or four. It's crazy. There's Coco's, which I waitressed like part time. Oh, cool. And then there is this 분식 place Like for more for like fast food per se And then there is another one called Four Seasons And I think a fried chicken place also opened And there's also amazing like Korean style karaoke and bar food place as well That's a little bit further out But it's crazy Like there's so much Korean food That's cool And also like pretty good as well Pretty good?
25:28Not like great But you know Pretty good you know it's decent good for a college town upstate new york um so i'm heading to seoul i want to know like i love walking around like song su itaewon i'm trying to wrap my head around and like what's going on there like the dying those dying shops like chronic shops but in general why should we listeners visit seoul right now you should visit seoul because there's no city like it But it's kind of like one, what surprises many people when they first visit Seoul is how big it is. There's also so many people and it spreads so large. The Han River cuts through the middle of it.
26:14The food scene from one end to another is just so diverse. And you could walk 10 minutes and just go into a completely different part of town. You'll see skyscrapers, but then you walk 10 minutes and you see the old traditional markets. You can see high-end Michelin star restaurants, but you can also see the very run-down, run-by-old-couple, no-pos that are just really old-school joints as well. And in a weird way, it harmonizes, and I think there's really no place like it. So well said, Tina. I mean, there is a harmony between the old and new. There's a great turnover every three to five years.
26:52I've been lucky to go several times, and it's unrecognizable in certain spots. Is there like a neighborhood or two that you can mention? I mentioned a few, but that you would recommend we go to? I think Uchiro is definitely one of my favorite places to visit because also because we know that it's going to be gone in a few years. It's going to be all torn down for development in a few years. So I feel like it's one of those places that are fleeting. Like if you go now, it's really now or never. and on top of the great food you can see that it's also very industrialized as well but there's also a lot of young people opening restaurants and bars and now it's kind of taken up by the young community as well it's kind of cool to go to these old school joints and we call euljiro hipjiro kind of as a mixture of like it's hip and then euljiro it's a cool neighborhood especially at night like the the open streets and like some of the the stalls there i mean to me having been only a couple times.
27:50It reminds me of Williamsburg in the early 2000s. I feel the old and new, but we know that it's, or Bushwick in 2005, we know it's going to be gone in a moment. And we didn't actually know that in New York when in 2005 it was going to go. But Ujuro, they've been saying for years, it's going to be gone because this is like the electronics shops. It's where a lot of Korea's electronics were based, right? Is there a restaurant you like in Ujuro? A place that I always go to is a makgeolli place called 7.8 and it's actually run by uh expat and um he has an amazing selection of uh craft makgeolli and like really great bar food and you can also like sit outside like where all these like printers and like industrial parts of the um of the city is and it's in a very unassuming part as well.
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28:43I definitely love going there for 이차, which is, you know, 이차 is where you first go to eat and drink. And 이차, I'm sure you know, is where you go for drinks and bar food. And 삼차 is where you go for the third round. But this is like one of my favorite 이차 places to go. For 이차, there's so much good food there. I think it's hard to say, but I love getting the baby octopuses there, spicy baby octopus with gamjajeon, which is potato fritters. Very similar to Jewish latkes. Yeah, I love that. I love that dish. Now, 성수. What's, like, 성수 to me felt like Bushwick. It felt like maybe a Brooklyn neighborhood.
29:25Is that a cool neighborhood? Is it washed? Like, I don't speak Korean, so I don't know. I think 성수 is the hippest, like, the it place to go right now. like the cafes are the newest it's super shiny all the most instagrammable spots are there like it's right next to soul forest and soul forest is so beautiful holy cow it's amazing it is so beautiful like i run there um and it's you can get to the water as well it's just in a great part of town where like the han river diverges into two and it's kind of in this little it's surrounded by two bodies of water and you walk in and it's also industrialized as well like i would divide Songsoo into like the more Seoul forest part of it, which is a lot of cute cafes, very almost like Harajuku vibes, I want to say.
30:12And then more deep inside near Tuksem is more industrialized. You still see like the welders and like auto shops that are slowly getting converted into cool cafes, just like Williamsburg. Just like Williamsburg and Bushwick. Yeah. So and I think it's the place to be. A lot of great artists also live there. So, yeah, definitely visit. Seoul is amazing. We're talking exclusively north of the river neighborhoods. So let's go south of the river. And, listener, if you stuck with us, you're interested in Korean food and culture. But I really want to dig into Seoul because we don't get to talk about it as much in, like, U.S.
30:48media. I feel like you only hit a few spots. There's a language barrier. There's just not enough focus on it. But I love Seoul so much. So south of the river, I'm heading. We know about Gangnam, obviously. But are there neighborhoods that you recommend in the south side? I used to live near the Seochow area, which is south of the river, kind of like where it is in Gangnam. But a place that I think surprises a lot of people is Seol Aemar, which was right next to it. And it's really interesting because it's a community made up of French expats. And there's really great French restaurants, places to hang out, really good organic wine bar.
31:28I think Korea is having a big organic wine phase right now, which makes sense because we're so into fermented foods. We love funky and anything with a lot of age and time. So I would say Seolama, definitely go check it out. I am definitely an advocate for North of the River, though, because it has more soul and history. But still, great places to eat and check out. Thanks, Tina. it's really cool to hear you kind of, you know, detail all these neighborhoods. And I really recommend visiting Seoul. Hit me up on Instagram if you want more pics. I got a spreadsheet. Okay, you're in New York. This section, I want to get a sense of what you're doing in New York and what you're doing in the States.
32:12Do you have, are you on vacation? Do you have work? What's, what's, what's going, what's going down here? It's half and a half. I do have a couple talks here um then i'm going to upenn for a talk and then i have something at cooper union um on the 15th on on saturday um so half for work half for pleasure um also to just catch up with friends and eat good food want to hear a little bit about your cooking at home and you know i spotted your lazy susan that you have on on your cooktop or near your cooktop and it has your staples and i think it really is poignant it strikes a chord with me about the korean staples because it's different than what we're going to have in america in some ways and i and i and you you detail this in your in one of your episodes where you give it to every kitchen um you i spotted grapeseed oil white pepper soy sauce olive oil kosher salt now why like why is it why are these your staples specifically you're cooking with grapeseed and this white pepper over black pepper grapeseed because it's really great for both hot and cold and like when i'm doing dressings and because it doesn't imbue such a heavy flavor i like to have that like clean taste um white pepper because it's so different from black pepper i prefer white pepper taste over black pepper it's a bit more pungent you don't need as much and um when i'm doing a fritter or when i'm doing something fried like sometimes i just don't like seeing those like black specks in my batter um and it's just more i would say it just mixes better also in soups i don't know i also grew up eating a lot of white pepper and black pepper mixes but um it's also easy it's the one that i have is this is i know this is blasphemy is pre-grounded but it's really for like a quick like i mean listen we can't all we can't always grind our pepper we don't always have time and you know and our grinders sometimes get dull no exactly my point no i think we white peppers we have a great piece of a white pepper that kathy or way wrote and i'll link to them the show notes because i agree white pepper it's something there's an herbaceousness that's a little different and it's just like an aesthetic choice you don't want to see the little ants on your food no um let's talk about a recipe code you want to crack i mean you're always testing and and uh your partner's a chef as well and and you You did a great video about a cookie recipe that you had tested with tahini, which I thought was really, really banging.
34:37So what are you working on? Is there a recipe, Grail, Tina, that you really want to crack in the next few months? In the next few months, I've been really getting into makkoli. And makkoli is a fermented rice wine drink. And I think I want to really also utilize it in my cooking. We really, really want to make a makkoli bread. So using the makgeolli as a leavening agent instead of putting yeast because it has both gray yeast and mold. But it is very tricky because it reacts very differently. And it's just like sourdough except plus like the kombucha aspect of it. So it's quite finicky and it's steamed instead of being baked as well.
35:19It's super fluffy. It's white. And just you get that great aroma from the alcohol being evaporated as well. And like the smell is like amazing. We still we haven't really cracked it just yet. We're testing and seeing like what works best. But definitely makgeolli bread is on my list. I love the using makgeolli in baking. I think it's so smart as a living agent or just as a flavor. I mean, it has like a definitely pronounced flavor that would, you know, send your bread away from Europe and towards East Asia in a cool way, which I think is great. And then milk bread. Have you done milk breads? Oh, I love milk breads.
35:55It's like the tangzhong element of it, which is kind of making that glue so that the gluten is really well incorporated. And, you know, it's kind of, I call it the squish test. Like when you squish the bread and if it comes back up to its original shape, that's when it has passed the test. And I think like a lot of the times baking is very, it's not something that people go to Asia to eat. Like you don't think that you'll be eating pastries. But there's really, really great Asian pastries and Asian way of doing these classic French baked goods that I think is very interesting as well. So if anyone's visiting Asia or Korea, like definitely try the pastries.
36:35I think it'll blow your mind. I agree. I think it's very underrated, especially with a lot of Korean pastry chefs training in Europe, training in the States, and then coming back and being creative. Yes. Have you been to Burrow ever? I have not. In Brooklyn. A great bakery, European-centric, but with Japanese inspiration. Highly recommend. Okay. Right in Dumbo. I'm going to write that down. Yeah, Burrow's great. All right, so cookbooks. Let's talk about that. I want to get your sense of like your future with cookbooks. But first, as a baseline, are there cookbooks that you have around that you're reaching for, that you're reading for inspiration and influence?
37:15We publish cookbooks here at Penguin Random House. So I have to ask you this question. I don't know if I can say this, but anything from Fidon, I absolutely love. You can absolutely say this. That is definitely not our company. No, I'm a wonderful answer. Because it's so beautiful. And I think it's also like the texture of the cookbooks and just the photography and everything. I love using those as a reference point for the food styling aspect of it. But I like to look at both Korean cookbooks and American cookbooks both. Korean cookbooks more for the technique of it. I like books that are more technique driven than really instructional so that I can have more creative space when making recipes to utilize those techniques, but with my own twist.
38:07Absolutely. I think it's great when you can merge technique and style. and, you know, the U.S. books have a little different style. Are there any U.S. publishers or books that you're interested in? I don't mean publishers. I'm not trying to have you say anything nice about the building we're in. I'm totally kidding. But are there authors here in the States that you really admire and books that you reach for? Oh, there's so much. I'm putting you on the spot. No, no. I love, I think food writing is something that I'm the most interested in. So I know this doesn't completely answer your question, But one of my favorite classes that I took at Cornell was a food writing class.
38:42And it was my favorite class over the food science one because it kind of opened up the idea using food as a medium to tell stories. And I've always loved the whole storytelling aspect with food. And it's just it's not just a nourishment. Obviously, there's so much personal feeling, emotions and history and culture that surrounds it. I always love to say that it's an edible piece of history. MFK Fisher, obviously, for the way she writes about food and the emotional aspects of it. Who else? Anthony Bourdain, I would obviously have to say. Just the whole traveling aspect of it and utilizing culture and kind of like it makes you feel like you're in that place.
39:28I also love Eddie Huang, as we mentioned before. Yeah, that's great. I mean, it's great. You're reaching for some classics there. I think it's cool to get your read on how you create using cookbooks. Like I think it's something that we talk about a little bit is like cookbooks as inspiration as home cooks, but also cookbooks as inspiration for creators. And what are our reference points? So you're when merging both Korean and American books into your work. It's cool. Okay. So for Doobie Doobop, what's next? I love this question because I'm really curious. Now, do you have a future in like broadcast or streamers or are you going to stay on YouTube?
40:09I'm going to be honest. I would say no to conventional TV. I like the aspect of being the, you know, being able to have everything under my control. I am a little bit of a control freak as to deciding what goes out. I think I'm a bit nervous to let that be in the hands of other people. Like if I started on TV and then went on to YouTube, I think it would have been a different story. But because I've always been my own editor, I think that aspect of it is a bit scary. But and also I do believe that the future is in YouTube as well for food content. We'll see if there's any like anything interesting that, you know, anyone's listening in and wants to propose to me.
40:52I'm open arms. But for now, I'm very, very happy like with my community on YouTube. I think we'll see. Like in five years, maybe if I don't want to be in front of the camera and I want to be on the back end of it, like that would be really interesting to do. But for now, I like YouTube. And what about TikTok? Are you are you recutting YouTube for TikTok? Are you creating TikTok exclusive? And like it's clearly growing. And I've been talking to my colleagues here and just at Taste and like it's really hard to compete with TikTok right now when creating. We're trying to teach our readers to cook better and cook smarter and feel comfortable.
41:30But man, we can't compete with TikTok. Yeah, TikTok is a force of its own. Definitely. I started out on TikTok and then I converted over to YouTube. As from a creator standpoint, I definitely prefer YouTube just because being able to have a revenue stream from your own videos is very empowering instead of having to rely on brands and sponsorships. so definitely I've been more focused on YouTube TikTok for the reach that it has and like the the people that you can reach I love both platforms but um and it's important to be present on both platforms but it's also very difficult as a creator doing all these different things because I do a food blog on the side as well and I like to write and there's other things that I would like to do so it depends on what kind of help I can get I think for sure it's a bandwidth issue.
42:23It's like you got to focus on a few things and do it really well. What about competition shows? Like, I mean, would you would you would you do Iron Chef? Would you do Chopped? I don't know. I think I don't know. For food competition shows, I think I like watching them. Yeah. But I personally feel like I would just be crying in a corner if that were to happen. I like cooking at my own pace as well. So probably not. Yeah, I think that's why is to stay out of the arena. I know you would crush it and you would rise and win. But man, what a stressful thing. It is very stressful. And I think just, you know, the little things, I think I'd be a little bit too self-conscious to be honest.
43:05But once I'm, maybe if I hone my skills down a bit better and I'm just more well-versed with also mainstream TV, maybe it'll be something that I consider. Tina, we asked all guests in the Taste Podcast, if you could write a cookbook or food culture book without the burden of time, meaning you have no deadline, or the burden of budget, meaning you have all the money in the world. I'm very interested in this answer. Tina, what would that cookbook be? I would love to do a cookbook really focusing on fermentation and diving into the cultural aspects of Korean cuisine and how it came to be. I think that's something that really fascinates me and if I were to also delve a little bit more deeper I think because the last 50 years or the last 100 years in Korean history it's been so like so much has happened like I say that it's a thousand years of history that's been just compressed into a hundred years I would love to kind of do a book that delves into the historical aspect of Korea and how it impacted like green food.
44:14That's something that I would love to do if I had unlimited time and resource. You followed the assignment because it is a huge project. But I mean, even since 1980, what has happened in Korea is an absolute miracle. It's called the miracle, right? The miracle of the Han River. The Han River, miracle on the Han. But it has to be said, and especially speaking with you, someone who lives in Korea, the rise of Korean culture in America, it's amazing. And to cover that would be quite a journey. It would. And I think also, I think the best way to put it is, I don't know if you've read Pachinko, but it's kind of like Pachinko, how it follows the different generations and the cooking aspect and how like cooking has changed with the different generations.
44:59Like if you just even go, you know, as you mentioned to the 80s or if we go back to the 50s, like so much has changed and like how Korea has gone from really like poor country to what it is now. There's so much to really delve into historically and see how different types of food was cooked. Do you want to write a book? I think I do. I used to be very anti-book because I felt like I wasn't in a position to write a book. I was freshly graduated from college and I've never worked in a kitchen. So I felt uncomfortable with the idea of doing books before. But now I would like it to be more of telling stories.
45:42It will be story driven with recipes woven in, but not necessarily instructional recipe, how to make the best kimchi. Yeah. I would trust mang chi with that. Me too. Yeah. Eric Kimmermonji, one of the two. Yes. So I would love to do one that kind of reflects me as who I am. And maybe in two, three years, I think I would be ready to do one. Well, I hope to have you back then or even sooner and talk about that book. Tina Choi, thank you for joining the Taste Podcast. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
46:24It's cool to meet you in person. I've checked out your TikTok, your Instagram, some of your website content, and I just love your shit. It's great. Well, thank you so much. I feel like this has been a long time coming. We've been, I feel like, chatting on email for a few months now, and it's finally, finally happened. Well, you're a busy guy because from the jump, I want to just talk to you and acknowledge, you know, you're a chef, a tastemaker. You're definitely an editorial dude. You worked at BuzzFeed. You're also a model and an influencer. So I want to we don't have too many. We've had Chrissy Teigen in the pages of taste.
46:58We don't have too many models on the taste podcast. So I just want to know, like, what's it like balancing this really like passionate, hardcore interest in food and cooking with, you know, fashion? Yeah. I mean, well, first, that feels weird to say outside model. I still don't feel like that title relates to me completely. but I, you know, I guess it's true and it's something that has kind of happened through the growth of my platform on social media. Um, so yeah, I was basically kind of scouted online, uh, from Instagram by basically a mother agent who has been phenomenal to work with and has just been throwing different things my way that he thought would be a good fit.
47:41Um, usually, you know, I didn't think much of it and then something happened with Gucci and last year I ended up walking that show and we kind of both sat down and we're like, okay, maybe there could be something here. This could be, you know, an opportunity. Uh, and I enjoy it. I interest, you know, it interests me. I like to, like to dress well. I like clothes. Um, so yeah, have been exploring it in a lot of different ways and have been able to work with fashion brands, not just as a model as, but almost as a, as food talent. So, uh, that's been really exciting and kind of hoping to to explore that world a bit more.
48:16Well, there's clearly benefits because you get to go to Italy a lot, and it's a pretty great place to go for food. But to be clear, too, you walk, you're a runway, you work on runways. You don't necessarily always work in the catalog or the print advertising editorial world. So you just were in the Spring 23 fashion shows. Where were you at? You were all over, right? Yeah. So to be clear, I didn't walk any shows. Okay. I, you know, was kind of piggybacking off of a trip. I was in Ireland, actually, with Kerrygold Butter, reached out, and I was fortunate to go on a media trip with them. Oh, sweet.
48:52Not SponCon, love Kerrygold. Yeah, not SponCon, but truly, what an amazing trip. We had perfect weather. It was like a group of six or seven of us, and we went all over Ireland, and we saw a bunch of different dairy farms, stayed at some beautiful places. Went to Ballymaloo Cooking School, if you're familiar. Famous. Yeah, absolutely. What a great school. Yeah. And was able to meet the team there, have a meal, tour the grounds. And it was truly eye opening, but, um, decided to just piggyback off that trip and knowing that Milan and Paris fashion weeks were, were right there. I was like, okay, it could be a good opportunity to maybe do some networking.
49:27I had a few kind of invitations to shows and some parties. Um, so yeah, just explored that. I did do like two castings, nothing kind of came about, but, um, it's always good to kind of get your face in front of as many people as possible and and you know it's an excuse to go to italy and paris yeah what's that casting situation like i know there's clearly many more women walking uh than guys and and it seems like uh it's challenging to break in but what's that what's that vibe like it's it's weird like i'm 28 so i'm like ancient compared to most of these models so for me it's definitely a bit weird um and you're you're you know you're kind of treated like cattle.
50:06It's just, you know, in and out, but I've also had great opportunities, you know, great opportunities too, and good experiences. Um, but during the fashion week, it's, you know, you're a number basically. And, uh, yeah, it feels weird. It's not something I love, but, uh, I think outside of the fashion week, you're, you know, you're sometimes able to meet one-on-one with people and, you know, develop a relationship or rapport. And if it doesn't work out that time, maybe they'll remember you for something other. Absolutely. Well, they're going to remember you because of your TikTok and, you know, some of this, these knife skills that you got, which are dope.
50:38I mean, you have really good knife skills. I have to say like, thank you. A lot of folks on TikTok do not have that. Um, I certainly don't. Let's talk about going, traveling for your job. Um, have you found any, or even for pleasure and for tourism, have you found any cities that had like an unexpectedly cool food scene? I mean, unexpected, I don't know. I mean, I feel like people in food will probably be like these aren't unexpected but uh let's just go there i love philadelphia okay i think it's one of the one of the best food cities in in the u.s um like all of mike solomanov's spots um yeah there's there's so much great food there from like you know the barbacoa spots to pizzeria bianco um god yeah there's there's a yeah like all the Solomon of places.
51:26Yeah. I love, I love Philly. Got to, got to shout it out. I have been traveling a lot to Copenhagen and, you know, I think that's obviously lauded as, you know, some of the best restaurants in the world there. But I, you know, I think more so the casual food scene there is, is so great. The cafe scene, the bread scene, you know, they have pretty much at every coffee shop is just bread, butter, and cheese. So it's these like, you know, sourdough buns with beautiful, like tangy, acidic Danish butter and Comte cheese. And it's so addicting. I had one every day I was there. It's phenomenal. Let's see another Berlin.
52:06Berlin has a lot of, you know, great food going on. That's cool. We don't talk about Berlin as a food city. We really don't. Yeah. I mean, I'm Armenian and, you know, maybe a little tricky territory to say, but there's incredible Turkish food there. And Turkish and Armenian food are very, very similar. It's one of the biggest diasporas, I believe, of Turkish community outside of Turkey. So, you know, the food there is so great. And then a lot of great wine bars. Yeah, a lot of cool chefs doing great things there. Yeah, you get to travel for your job and just in general a lot. It's cool. Yeah, it's been a dream.
52:43I think this year I've traveled more than, I don't know, the past five years of my life. Yeah. It's been pretty wild. Let's step back and talk about growing up. I know you were born in Virginia, but you were raised in Kentucky, Louisville. I'd love to hear about that and what was food like in your life growing up. Yeah, absolutely. So I moved to Louisville when I was five. Proper pronunciation there. I mean, obviously you're from there, but just say it one more time. Yeah, Louisville. Yeah, exactly. As one of my friends, one of my dearest friends puts it, it's like kind of spaghetti is falling out of your mouth.
53:15Louisville. That's a general note on the Midwestern accent that I have kind of broken over the past 20 years. But yeah, great call. Spaghetti, O's flowing from your mouth. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, my mom is from Pennsylvania. Dad is from Virginia. I was fortunate to grow up where my mom would cook for me and my brother fairly consistently and was, you know, very much adamant on having fairly healthy meals. So I was really accustomed to trying new things quite a lot. There was a point in my life where I got quite picky and I didn't enjoy food. And I feel like, I don't know, most people, some people, at least, I don't know, myself go through kind of that experience.
53:58But yeah, my dad's side of the family is Armenian. and so my dad's mom, my grandma didn't cook a ton of Armenian food, but the things that she did, she passed down to my mother and my mother would make it. So things like pilaf, things like dolma, I was, you know, always, we always had that. So, yeah, it was, you know, I was always experienced and always, food was always a part of my life. But, you know, up until, I guess, college really is when it started becoming a more serious part of it. Are there any Louisville local spots? I mean, Ed Lee, been on the Taste Podcast, friend of mine, great chef in Louisville.
54:39There's a lot more going on than Ed Lee. Ed Lee is often cited as like the Louisville chef. But what's going on in Louisville? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot. There's a lot going on. The pop-up scene there is really big. One of my favorite spots is Pizzeria Lupo. Pizza Lupo. Shout out to them. They're doing some of the coolest food in Louisville, I think. It's all sourdough pies and a lot of great sides and seasonal dishes. Yeah, that spot is probably one of my favorite. I don't know. There's an incredible Vietnamese population there, an incredible Vietnamese food, like Vietnam Kitchen. Let's see.
55:18Putting you on the spot, telling you, like, you know, political. No, I mean, I'm trying to think, too. I don't know why. Have you been to Shirley May's at all? Yes. In Smoketown? I've been there a couple times. I've been to, I love Louisville. That place rules. And that place is - The hot water cornbread there is phenomenal. So yeah, that spot really, really blew my mind. And I actually lived, I don't know, probably a five minute walk. Maybe, no, maybe like a 10, 15 minute walk in there. But yeah, I would go there. I've been there, I think twice. And I love how the menu kind of changes every day.
55:52They have different specials. But yeah, that hot water cornbread is something like I've never had. It's, you know, rich and decadent and fried and phenomenal. And I thought the ribs there I had were outstanding. I know there's smoking in the back, I think, but it's an amazing place. And Hamhock, too. Yeah, it's wild, too, because that building has, like, a history in itself where, you know, I think Smokedown was one of the first areas in Wolverine, Kentucky, after the Civil War, that was, like, I guess welcomed to the black community or free and open. and yeah there was like a famous jazz bar there before and then a grocery store and then Shirley Mays and it's still like a family affair there which is so cool.
56:37Got to head to Louisville again I haven't been in a minute. You moved to New York and you worked at BuzzFeed and I'm maybe getting the timeline out of order but you also worked at Huertas in the East Village. Yeah so Huertas came about from BuzzFeed. So BuzzFeed was one of my funny, funny enough. Uh, yeah. So I moved here in 2016 after school, um, got an internship at a, uh, vice media agency called Care Creative, which is now, now defunct, but, uh, interned there for a bit, uh, ended up not getting hired. They closed down their production. I studied film, uh, was kind of focused in the digital film, digital media world.
57:21Um, and then got a job at Buzzfeed. Uh, and this was right around the time they launched their tasty vertical. Heard of it. Yeah. Back then it was, it was absolutely insane. Um, so I was fortunate to work on that vertical and started cooking a lot. So as a producer there, you're not only filming and editing the videos, you're ideating the recipes, you're actually cooking them. So it's multifaceted. And I loved that about the job. I loved that I was doing all these different things, but I didn't necessarily love the food that we made. Like as many people may know, Tasty is like pretty much a over the top, very trendy viral food, food that I, to be honest, probably wouldn't share.
58:05I mean, Tasty invented pans and hands basically yeah viral video i mean the recipe video which is now part of all food media it's crazy that you worked there so young yeah i mean it was it was it was eye-opening and you know we were getting you know hundreds of millions of views on these videos which was absurd and it was such a uh yeah an eye-opening experience uh to learn about you know viral content and food content and get that experience of what people found satisfying on the internet. So let's talk about Huertas then. You end up at Huertas working the line, a great restaurant in the East Village, Spanish tapas and Spanish regional cuisine.
58:48So you're thrown into the line situation. You did not go to culinary school. What's that like? Yeah. So at BuzzFeed, I was really interested, got very interested in cooking and kind of surpassed my passion for film. And I wanted to potentially reach out to a chef owner to cook with. And Jonah Miller, the chef owner at Huertas was read an email of mine was nice enough to let me come in and basically intern. So I'd go in after work at Buzzfeed and just, you know, do some prep work. And on the weekends, maybe I'd be able to work on Monje. And I did that for about six months until I was, you know, they had an open position in the kitchen and I wasn't really happy and didn't see a lot of growth at Buzzfeed.
59:30So decided to quit BuzzFeed and end up working at Huertas for about six months. My goodness. So you're leaving a platform that's giving you a lot of visibility to like become anonymous in the back of a house. Were you thinking at that time that you were going to continue doing food media as you have with TikTok or were you just like, I want to cook? Yeah, I really wanted to cook. I wanted to throw myself, you know, I had no professional experience. at the time I was thinking about potentially trying to open up a cafe or a spot at some point in my life, which is why I was really adamant about finding a chef owner.
1:00:06But yeah, I had just had such a great time learning, you know, learning and cooking at Huertas. And the team was, you know, we were, we were such a, you know, it was very much camaraderie. It was, it was a great experience and um yeah just decided to take it head on and and and work the line what's a dish that you actually when you walked in you had no idea it was so complicated but you but when you started making it it became clear that this was a dish that took incredible amount of technique incredible amount of like thought into the sourcing was there is there one dish that comes to mind? Just technique wise, there was one, it was just our, you know, a lot of the things that prepared there, we, I wouldn't say it was simple.
1:00:53It was very technique driven. Um, but I would say the setas with smoked garlic, uh, we like cold smoked this garlic and then pulsed it. And then that sauce itself was just, it had so much flavor and so much depth that I thought there was a million things in there. And it was really just smoked garlic with a little bit of sherry vinegar and then just put like seared mushrooms and a little thyme and and that dish was something i would always go back to and is you know would always kind of crave especially you know the raw egg yolk in the middle it's just just phenomenal i love the use of raw egg yolk in spanish cooking yeah it's really really really special like this place barmut in barcelona used to do a raw egg carpaccio that's amazing wow yeah sounds so good spanish food is like truly the best yeah yeah the basque region is one of my favorite places to travel hands down and so let's go uh move forward uh huertas you're humming along but then you know tiktok enters the picture like you're you're thinking because like your videos are great like you clearly have a film background they're not like kind of they're not janky you know they're not like rough they're actually really well edited i don't mean it actually i hope you mean that that's like a positive thing.
1:02:02Like they're actually, they are good videos. And, uh, I feel like you clearly knew what you were doing when you were launching TikTok. You wanted it to be really special. Yeah. So that all kind of happened during the pandemic. Um, I had moved back to Kentucky and was staying with my parents. Uh, they were gracious enough to, to let me stay there. Um, so I was cooking for dinner for them pretty much every night, uh, a lot of free time on my hands and was just using that, just cooking. And this was right when the time Reels had launched on Instagram. And basically a friend of mine, we challenged each other to make a reel and I made a baba ganoush.
1:02:41And I thought it was, you know, it was just such a fun, creative outlet. It, you know, didn't take me a lot of time. I didn't have to be too sacred about it. It could be a little messy. And yeah, it was fun. and it got more attention than a lot of my other posts. At that time during the pandemic, I was thinking about potentially making YouTube videos. But I don't know, as a film major and having that film background, I was never satisfied with anything that I shot. I would just like be editing for like hours constantly and just like, this is just not good enough. So when Reels came about in TikTok, I was like, this is great.
1:03:18It feels kind of like a journal entry. I can be a little sloppy. this is you know very fun creative outlet for me and um yeah i'm able to just experiment so it kind of all started with these dips after baba ganoush i did i don't i think like a feta dip with yogurt and then just kept going from there and yeah i think once or twice a week i would just make these and uh slowly but surely i started growing more and more and then branching outside of dips that's cool yeah with your hashtag dip content like what are you thinking about what is your goal with these with these dips because they are they're they're rad i love your dips yeah i mean for me i like i initially chose dips because i felt like it was one area in cooking that didn't have a lot of rules like as long as the outcome was like the texture is good and the taste is good yeah it doesn't really matter how you get there yeah i guess it's like fat and salt yeah and you got a vessel that you gotta think about but yeah that that's about it so i would just go to the grocery store and try to find that one star ingredient and be like, okay, sweet potato, you know, how do I want to build around here?
1:04:24You know, what's, do I want heat? Because there's some sweetness. Okay. Maybe some peppers. Okay. Maybe need a little bit of acid. Um, okay. Fat. Do I want it to have, you know, uh, an olive oil or do I want like a nuts in there or something like that? So just kind of building it that way. So when you, uh, took that job at Huertas, you didn't really have a, an actual like culinary school background how did you learn to cook because clearly there was a bridge between being a college grad and working in agencies in film to like being good at food so like how did you learn to cook by cooking a lot yeah man right just cooking a lot at home um yeah the bug really bit me at buzzfeed and you know i was cooking almost every day there uh trying to experiment with content and food that I, you know, really associated with.
1:05:16But also at home, I was doing dinner parties for friends. Friends had little pop-ups or, you know, businesses that wanted to do a party and I would kind of cater the food. So always, always practicing that way where I felt like I was becoming a confident home cook, but by no means what, you know, was I ready to cook at a restaurant. And that's, you know what I learned at Huertas was you know how to work efficiently how to you know cook eight chickens eight chicken breasts at once how to yeah you know cook for a party of a hundred air traffic control yeah and it was it was a completely different set of skills that I learned there you bring up dinner parties which I think is a theme on your bio quote you are researching dinner parties which is cool let me ask you okay there's an article in your times that like imply the dinner parties are over some something, something, something.
1:06:10I don't know. Um, but Pierce, like straight up, what is the status of the dinner party in late 2020? Yeah. So funny. My, my friend Emily wrote that article and she reached out to me and she was like, yeah, the dinner party is over. Sorry, Emily. And she was really hard on that. Yeah. And, and that's kind of what I said. I made that statement, um, where I disagree. And her point was that, you know, during the pandemic, there was you know I guess not a lot of uh restaurants open people a lot of free time on my hands free time on their hands and they had their you know a lot of time to make their spaces feel really welcome and they wanted to you know have people over and and share that hospitality and now that things are getting kind of more back into the swing of things people want their space separate they want to be able to go out and do things but I think the dinner party is so special I think conversations happen you know, at a dinner party that wouldn't happen at a restaurant table.
1:07:08Um, I think there's a, thank you. Yes. Agree. I, you know, I think for me, it's like one of the reasons why I love cooking so much is, you know, I want to share my, my take on hospitality and, you know, I can't really do that with these cooking videos. I can't do that cooking for, you know, just my girlfriend or, you know, whatever. I, I want to host people. I like, I love the idea of being a host and And it's just comforting going to someone's house and feeling that love. And, you know, restaurants can do a really good job at that, great hospitality and great service, but it's just not the same.
1:07:42Yeah. And, you know, let's back up to Emily's article, and I'll link to them in the show notes. I mean, clearly we were exhausted with home cooking, and I think for a certain age group and a certain, you know, tax bracket, when dining out is feasible, it's a great thing to do. Like, I'm not, I love going to restaurants. I just I think like this like blatant statement that like the dinner party is dead is frustrating because to your point, you don't act the same way when you're invited to someone's home. And then it allows the home cook to actually show some of their skills that they've acquired by reading taste or reading cookbooks.
1:08:15And there's a real pride in making a meal for somebody. I feel like that's really lost when you go to a restaurant. You know, there's not that level of pride in hospitality. And I clearly you're a hospitality guy. you wanted to do a cafe maybe or a restaurant. It seems like that. So my question after that statement, and I'm sorry again, Emily, I disagree. I want to know what do you have to say about the dinner party because you're researching them. You're getting all this information. What is there to say? Yeah, I mean, people have been having dinner parties, you know, since, I don't know, the medieval ages, probably before that.
1:08:53And they're not going anywhere. They may go in and out of fad, but again, there's something special about dinner parties. There's an atmosphere that is just not similar anywhere else. There's opportunities for friendships and relationships and connections that wouldn't happen anywhere else. There's points of view and there's discussions and debates that can be had that I feel like are just very conducive to what the environment of a dinner party is. Great point. I want to know about some of your go-to recipes when you're hosting in New York or if you're back in Louisville hosting there. Different spaces obviously dictate the menu.
1:09:39Maybe a couple dishes that you love to bring out for a dinner party. Yeah. I mean, I always love to start with, you know, kind of some antipasta and cheese. that's you know i want people to have food accessible as soon as they walk in the door and in a glass of wine ready if they want it to so uh always castle vetrano olives uh i love basque cheeses so manchego idiazabel um definitely some fresh anchovies some bocorones like tinned fish for sure yeah um so there and then i'm a person who kind of always goes a little crazy with dinner parties. I want to have as many dishes on the table as possible.
1:10:21And a lot of that is based around seasonality. Um, so especially when I'm going, you know, cooking for a dinner party, I'll go to the farmer's market and build something around there. So I'll have, you know, two to three different salads, definitely a dip or two. Um, and then, yeah, I think for me, I love like presentation piece. So like a whole fish, big whole fish fan here. Yeah. written about it a lot. I love that. Yeah. So simple. And then, you know, either a grain salad or, you know, something like that. Um, one of my favorite dips to do, which is so simple and doing anywhere is just labneh, fresh turmeric and black pepper, uh, with just a little bit of salt.
1:10:59It's like, it's been a showstopper for me and it's so simple and I can whip it up and, you know, five minutes and it's just on the table. Yeah. I mean, do you, do you buy labneh like just as is in the grocery store or do you just double strain Greek or what are you thinking? I've, Yeah, I've double strained it, but for me, it's not worth it. It's like, you know, especially in a New York apartment. Real talk. Absolutely agree. You know, you have this, you know, huge like cheesecloth hanging from your fridge, some cabinet or something. And it's fun to do every once in a while, but it's just not worth it.
1:11:31And so turmeric and black pepper. That's it. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's so simple spread. And that fresh turmeric is just has that sweet flavor that, you know, dried turmeric doesn't have. Do you think about like healthy food? Like when that word comes up, I mean, your profession, when you are working in fashion, you know, it may require you to be extremely fit and maybe you have to eat in a way that some would call healthy. I hate to use that word because healthy means many different things. But I guess my question is do you have like a way of eating? I mean you're like an athlete. So are you like cutting weight before photo shoots and stuff like that?
1:12:08No. I mean, I, I would say in general, I like everything I eat for the most part is healthy. Like, and that is my own sense of the word. Like I also love French fries. I eat French fries once a week. I love ice cream. I eat ice cream. I think it's all about, um, you know, the parameters that you set for yourself, how often you're eating these things and, and ensuring that, you know, there's a diversity in, in what you're, what you're eating and you're not overeating things that, you know, make you feel bad. Um, but yeah, I think it's all a mix. I, I exercise, I love to cook with a ton of olive oil.
1:12:46Some people may say that's not healthy. Um, but no, I, I would say more so the terms around my food would be like seasonal and fresh and like local than the idea of healthy. Yeah. Well said. I like that. Um, are there any cookbooks that you're really vibing with right now? Do you feel, um, are you like linked, synced up with the season with the new cookbooks or do you have like some go-to older cookbooks? Yeah, two come to mind. Jess DeMuck, Salad Freak. Yeah, I guess the taste podcast, love Jess. Yeah, she's great. We've chatted a bit online, but yeah, she has a very cool story too of working with Martha Stewart, but I mean, I'm obviously a huge salad fan and I think what she does in the book is great.
1:13:29And then Andy Baragani's new book is also, you know, so fun. I think we have a similar cooking style and definitely referenced a lot of his recipes in the past from Bon Appetit when I was really starting to cook early on for the first time. I remember specifically this one of leeks with walnuts that I've made probably, I don't know how many times, and it's just so simple and so phenomenal. Yeah, Andy is a great, great, great home cook and chef, and he's also been a guest on The Taste Podcast. I'll link to both Jess and Andy's episodes in the show notes. Pierce we ask all guests in the taste podcast to create a cookbook or food culture book without the burden of time meaning you have no deadline or budget meaning you have unlimited funds what would that cookbook be oh man I mean if I could just write any cookbook you know that right you know that's a big task just to begin with but for me I'm really interested in in connecting flavors I think and trying to figure out how to pair different things.
1:14:35So if I could really hone in around, you know, a massive chart of produce and fruit and vegetables and grains and kind of connect the dots between different tastes and figure out a way to form a cookbook around that. So we're like the end of a recipe, there's different. Okay, if you're making this, you could have X, Y, and Z with it. And just kind of jumping all around a cookbook in that way. I think it'd be really fun. That'd be exciting to check out. Are you, are you thinking about writing a cookbook? Do you, do you have interest? And this is a hypothetical question, but the first one was, but are you actually going to do it?
1:15:09I, I definitely have interest. It's definitely on the table. Um, for me, it's like, you know, a lot of how I think about recipes now and how I cook now is very much like a diary entry. Um, and a cookbook is the complete opposite of that. You know, you're going to take one to two years to write it and then maybe another year for it to go to publishing. So, you know, it needs to be something that I'm going to still think is my food philosophy and still be relevant two or three years from now. So it's a bit overwhelming for me, but yeah, I've been thinking about it a lot and it's something that I really want to, you know, take on.
1:15:46Awesome. I look forward to that. Piers Abernethy, thank you for joining the Taste Podcast. Yeah, Matt, it's such a pleasure.
1:15:55This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.
From the publisher
Here are two classic conversations. Tina Choi is the Seoul-based genius behind one of our favorite food YouTube channels around, Doobydobap. Pierce Abernathy is a trained cook, a big-time TikTok and Instagram creator, and a former Buzzfeeder, and he’s been known to model and work with fashion brands in interesting ways. We hope you enjoy these talks.
Do you enjoy This Is TASTE? Drop us a review on Apple, or star us on Spotify. We’d love to hear from you.
MORE FROM TINA CHOI AND PIERCE ABERNATHY:
How Koreans Meal Prep [YouTube]
How Koreans Kimchi [YouTube]
Leek Butter [TikTok]
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