344: Pizza Week with Anthony Falco

26:28You know, a lot of us were ex-bartenders. And so, you know, when you're a bartender, you know, in New York, you've got to have – you've got to hustle and get people to come. You've got to have a lot of friends and acquaintances. So, you know, we would get people to come in and hang out. And, you know, it was just – and then it just – it grew. It went from just the garage to the backyard to the radio station to the parties in the backyard to the Bushwick block party, which I had a lot to do with, which was really, really fun. There's some great video of that. Great times. On the internet. I love that period of Brooklyn in the early 2010s when before the Tesla dealerships arrived and the German tourists.

27:09I feel like it was a time when there was real – like it was real artist living, you know, expensive. It was still New York, but it was, you could definitely like live there and have like an artist creative job. Yeah. I mean, and, you know, I mean, I think that's like the story of New York, you know, there's always some part of where it's like, oh, you should have been here 10 years ago, you know? And it was, it was really funny towards my, the end of my time at Roberta's when, you know, someone who'd only been there for like a couple of years, you know, when I was like almost, almost like seven, almost eight years in.

27:40and, you know, you would hear someone be like, oh, yeah, you weren't here when the, you know, and I'm like, bro, you barely just got here. I love that. It's always like always a push and pull from the old and new generation. Yeah, but it was great, you know, and I think like going, you know, doing a lot of, you know, representing the pizza brand, being like, you know, someone who took it on the road, like took it to Austin, my hometown, to do South by Southwest, you know, know, to take it on the road and to introduce people to that brand really kind of prepared me for, you know, what I do now.

28:14And, you know, for that time, I was trying to create the same thing everywhere we went. And now I'm trying to always do something different everywhere I go. Let me ask you, Anthony, about when your early days of Roberta's, what, let's talk about the pizza like what was the what made the pizza so unique so so important in in food media but also for new yorkers like what what caused us to to wait in those lines and and have those drinks and be kind of tanked by the time we actually were able to eat the pizza which was kind of the joy of going to robertas you had like four glasses of rose and you're like oh shit i gotta eat now yeah but let's talk about the pizza that you're making i mean it really started with just like this, what I think is, you know, still just a great philosophy of like, we're going to use the best ingredients, whether that means local or imported, you know, there's, we're not going to really, we're not going to say, you know, what we're going to do.

29:15We're just going to do it. You know? Is that Carlo doing that? Is that you doing that? I mean, for me, I didn't, you know, I worked with Chris and Brandon on the pizza side. Carlo did his own thing, you know, and that food just got better and better. Oh, yeah, for sure. But it was physically separate and it was, you know, kind of separate departments. Got it, got it. You know, but, you know, I mean, I think it was a lot of Chris's vision. He was a real, like, genius in a lot of, like, spotting the trend ahead of the curve and just, like, using great producers like Be Lazy and then Patrick from Heritage Foods being next door and using his products and then, you know, using like local flour, but doing it in that Italian oven.

30:04And then, you know, having people from Italy involved in the very beginning who, you know, Mauro and like his kind of tutelage of, you know, like, okay, I guess we'll do this, but it's, you know, just so you know, this is totally we're breaking all the rules here. And, you know, it was just, it was this idea that we can use, you can use Neapolitan pizza as a format, a structure, but it's not like we're not trying to do exactly what they do in Naples. And you hit it on the head. It is exactly why we love American style in the Apollitan. It's an expression of new American cuisine. You mentioned Patrick Martins, who I think is such a link between so many of these early Brooklyn restaurants and bringing incredible products.

30:47I love that you mentioned his name. And pizza is a great format to express creativity, which you and your team did. Yeah. And, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, Alice Waters and, you know, Paul Bertoli and Chris Bianco. And, you know, I mean, the whole idea with that, I mean, it's not new what was happening, right? The whole idea was like, you know, great olive oil, great salt, good products, you know, and try not to overthink it, you know, and like, you know, just try to have a relationship with the seasons. but at the same time, you know, I mean, like there's no sign outside that says everything comes within a hundred miles.

31:26And yeah, it's, I would love, I would love hearing like someone who was like, was, you know, taking their parents there who were like lived at the loft across street or something. And they're like, you know, they grow all their own vegetables on the roof. And it's like, bro, you know, the size of the roof we would need. Yeah. It's, it's really funny when people get into that. That's a trap. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I mean, and it was just, there was this, there was no eyeballs on it in the very beginning, and I think that was also really special. Do you still eat at Roberta's in Brooklyn or L.A. or the other cities that Roberta's is in?

31:56No. Yeah? No. Does that make you sad? Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'll look on Rezzy, see if there's anything. I love it. I thank you for sharing about Roberta's. I thank you for sharing about Roberta's. I couldn't let it pass because you're a big part of that brand and making it work. Let's pivot. This is the part of the interview, the portion of the program where we, you and I talk about regional pizza styles. Because, Anthony, you have traveled. You know what's going on. We're going to start with my beloved Midwest. I'm just going to ask you straight up. We're going here. Detroit Pan versus Chicago Tavern.

32:35Wow. um man i have so i have a lot i have a lot of thoughts about midwest pizza culture but not a lot of experience so and thank you for being honest yeah let's let's go to let's please go to detroit you and i yeah okay so like the a big thing that informs everything that i do um you know is is history like i if i'm not working on a project or reading about something that is specific to what I'm working on. I'm reading nonfiction history. Um, that's, I'm listening to the history podcast. That's what I'm mostly into when I'm going to a new country. I dive deep on their Wikipedia or try to find history books about that specific country.

33:20So I have some, you know, reference and understanding of the cultural signpost as I pull in. Um, so when I think of Detroit style pizza, I think of it in the context of, you know, global pizza history, Right. So I remember trying to explain Detroit style pizza to a room full of Brazilians and Italians. So this was my partners in Brazil. And we have a chain of pizzerias called Braz Electrica. And then they with the like sister company, the original pizzeria is called Braz. And they do traditional Brazilian pizza. Now, just like we have New York style pizza, You know, they have – Sao Paulo has, you know, Palastano style pizza.

34:03And they have a 100-year-old tradition. That's amazing. Holy cow. They call themselves the pizza capital of the world. Respect. They are – and they have a strong case for that. And their pizza culture is actually quite a bit closer to, you know, true Neapolitan pizza than New York style, which they do not understand. and so when I was we were talking about pizza trends and I was talking about yes New York is becoming more represented globally um also look out for you know this was a few years ago I was like look out for Detroit style pizza coming and this Italian guy was like well how big is the the the crust and I was like well it's like it's about two inches thick he's like no but on like the edge like the the cornichoni the crust I was like well it's the same he's like no but I mean like not the the the outside the middle and i'm like it's the same all the way through like i'm like what are you and he's like he's like what are you in like we he's like is it a language thing and i'm just like we're starting to yell at each other and finally i like i draw like a diagram and he's like oh it's not pizza it's bocaccia yeah and it's like that is a distinction that is serious you know like and i did a detroit style pizza concept in barcelona and we had a lot of italians on staff you know and i would put it in front of them and be like they would be looking at me like what is happening what is this shit yeah exactly and i would be like look this is you know this isn't pizza i know it's not pizza all right it's focaccia with pizza toppings and they're like oh okay cool with a little bit of frico in there too exactly frico crust yeah exactly and that's like you just if you paint it that way but like words have meaning you know in especially in Italy.

35:47Um, so like when I think of Detroit style pizza, I think of it as in the context of in, in American pizza world, anything that has sauce and cheese on it can be pizza. You know, we have pizza bagels, we have like pizza sushi, like anything can be sushi where anything can be pizza. You know, like this is America. Um, so when I think of Detroit style pizza, I think of it in the context of that. Okay. It's, uh, it's very much, you know, part of our open-minded pizza culture. And it is part of the American tradition of regional Italians, immigrants coming here and then saying, look, you guys like this thing from our culture, but I don't know anything about it because we're from Sicily.

36:32You know, we've never heard the word pizza before. Like my great grandparents, they had never heard the word pizza. They, the thing that they made that they gave us they called pizza they called it facetivecchia yeah you know or svincione um so detroit style pizza is essentially in post-war america everyone wants pizza it would be like the equivalent of like birria today and so like great example i love that example that's that's moderate yeah birria is experiencing a similar thing and like you maybe you're from you know like uh you know a different part maybe you're from mexico city which didn't really have birria tradition and you're like well i'm just you know whatever i'm trying to make money i'll yeah it's what's on the internet yeah yeah so like that's what detroit is you have sicilians they're like okay uh people want pizza we'll make i'll make you pizza i know how to make pizza and they make what they their tradition which is like you know either spincione or or something like that so it's it's a good way to dodge the question appreciate that um anyways let's head east i want to, I want to ask you just looking at the East coast, like the East, the seaboard, is there a region on the East coast that has pizza that we are ignoring that we maybe don't think about as being great pizza?

37:47Well, you're not going to like this answer either. Um, yeah, you have a consulting business. You don't want to offend anyone. You're a global. No, I, I just think there's like this desire amongst, um, you know, pizza, people who write about pizza or people who review pizza to like discover something that's not there. I know. I know it's a bad instinct, but, um, you know, I think that it's, you know, I mean, I think we're, we're aware of what we have. What we have is great. You know, I mean, in, in this region here, you know, you have New York style. Um, and, and I would, I would start that with the first wave, you know, of like Titano's, which I went to recently, which is holding up incredibly.

38:31What about Lombardi's? Do you package that in there i wouldn't i wouldn't consider i wouldn't put lombardi's in the conversation great agree um it's agree fully yeah it's a brand that was revived and then you know basically invented on the spot it's for the tourists 90s um and but you know like i think i would put juliana's in there you know yeah which is tangentially connected it's like a cousin it's in Dumbo. Yeah. Yeah. Patsy's is in that, you know, first wave. So those, those I would consider, you know, but it's New York is just, it's, it, the problem with anything historical in New York is that we're only seeing what's left.

39:11You know, there's, everything has been churned so much. So, so many places have closed. John's bleaker. There you go. That's a, that's a first wave. Yeah. um lmb uh no you know i don't middle middle that would be i guess like that so i'm like pre-slice culture yeah you know i'm talking about like that like we're talking first wave like you know and then is you in if we look at that as like things kind of shoot off of that right so then you have in uh new haven you know their their first wave kind of stuck around a little more because it's not New York City. It wasn't, it didn't get, you know, there wasn't like a constant change and, you know, it kind of immigrants came, they moved there.

39:55There was like, what was, what did they do in New Haven? It was like gun manufacturing. Like there was like, I mean, up in like Norwalk, there's like a lot of ship building, ship building. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But then it was like the industrialization kind of slowed. And then, you know, I mean, it's like trapped in time. Right. And then you have Trenton, um, the tomato pies, you know, I think De Lorenzo's is amazing. a lot of them moved to like Robbinsville you know like your old like original Trenton downtown is like not I don't think is much of a thing not quite yet what about mustard pie I just yeah it's more like a micro I only have so much room in my stomach yeah it's a micro theme there shout out to Jason Diamond he's a big mustard pie fan sure it's great I'm sure it's awesome I have put mustard on a pizza I did like a Cuban pizza it was good yeah fair enough you know for a stunt pizza so you know Those are the things that I think like – that I find really interesting to me because it's also like kind of – you're looking back into like, well, what was like Neapolitan pizza like?

40:56Because this is – there's a direct connection to the original Neapolitan immigrants and what was – it was like a lot of these were like bakeries that sold pizza because it became popular. Which is the Baker's Pride connection. A bakery bread oven is why – is it connected to New York style? When I think of Baker's Pride ovens, it was Frank Mastro, right, who invented the gas oven? I think of that as kind of like the way I think of like Rockbox or Uni. Interesting. It was like a guy who – It was like a brand. The guy had an idea and he's like, hey, you got this giant oven that takes up like half of your restaurant.

41:40Like I have this, you know, new wave, newfangled, tiny box that can fit. Yeah. Let's sidebar on that sometime. I feel it's a cool, like let's, let's, I'm sure it's been written about it. I mean, and really the interesting thing there is that it changes the dough, right? Yeah. So, cause without any radiant heat to get color on the dough, then you start having to add sugar and you start having to add diastatic malt powder or, you know, milk powder. Which crystallizes the New York City slice for some, for some. Because when you, yeah, I mean, that's what that sugar, that, you know, the malt, both of those things kind of give it that unique, you know, flavor and texture.

42:13Because it's in a dark oven. It's in this like gas oven with no. But now you have with the electric ovens, you have the radiant heat back again. Yeah. And you're getting a very different style of service. You're getting a different, like speed is different, right? Yeah, and then to go back to Roberta's is like, you know, what the oven is, the number one determining factor of like what makes a pizza a pizza. And because, I mean, you take the same dough and you put it in multiple ovens, it's going to come out very differently. Very much so. So I think what that was just people falling in love with like a wood-fired oven, you know, really.

42:50And that was like, I mean, and personally for me, I could cook in a wood-fired oven for the rest of my life. Right. Like I think it's just, it's magical. Yeah. I mean, just getting to the right temperature, just the building of the fire is something that is very cathartic, I'm sure. It's so cool. Yeah, it's cool. It's a better word. It's actually cool. Yeah, it's very cool. It's cool to cook with wood. And it's like, you know, from an operator perspective, it's like a – well, I've never driven a Lamborghini, but I use this reference all the time. But it's like a manual transmission sports car like Lamborghini.

43:22I mean, like if you want to go fast and you know what you're doing, you are going to be in for a treat. But if you're like, you know, running errands or, you know, whatever, like the electric ovens are more like a Tesla. You know, it's great. It gets you where you need to go. But, you know, it's not super sexy and anyone can use it. But we as a culture, we love Neapolitan pie because of that leoparding of the crust. We love the speed of it. We love these amazing vessels that are in these restaurants with like initials on them with art on them. Yeah, and the smell. When you walk into – people like food writers often talk about like the smoky flavor of the – well, there's no actual smoky flavor.

44:00Absolutely. Correction. You've set the record straight. Bad trope to say something tastes smoky. It's not fucking tasty. I mean you know how barbecue works. Yeah, exactly. It takes like 18 hours. Yeah, exactly. And at low temperature where there is a higher amount of particulate matter, which is going to actually bind to the fats. You know, none of that is happening in a pizza oven. It's 60 seconds, 90 seconds. We have our smells and those inform our taste. And the smell binds to your, you know, taste buds and then you're, you know, you're getting this. But that is, I mean, I remember leaving work and smelling like a campfire and just thinking it was awesome.

44:38It was like, I was like, this is like this cologne is great. Okay, let's just go there. Favorite NYC slice. Let's go. Or we can podium it or we can Mount Rushmore it. That's really, that's a difficult question. I want to ask you what your favorite New York slice is because I feel like it's. You want to riff? Let's riff. Yeah. I want to hear yours first. I'll tell you two. Okay. Two come to mind. Okay. It's not about me. It's about you. F and F. Okay. Love the dough. Love what they do there. I love the Franks. I love the Franks. And then L &B. Okay. I said it on record. People know me. Okay. L &B just because I think it's just a complete package.

45:13The sauce, the way, the texture, the artistry, well, it's not really artistry, but the pageantry of going there in Brooklyn. And I just love that sauce. That's me. You, Anthony, step it up. I mean, I think, you know, a lot of the pizza nerds right now who really follow fermentation, all this, Lindustria is like, you know, they've got to be in the conversation for number one. But I think for, you know, in the last few pizza tours that I've done, the ones that have stood out to me is Manos in Ridgewood. It's a new kind of one-man operation. Nicholas Manopela. And he is just living his pizza dream.

45:55And he's doing – he's making every pie. And it is a just awesome, awesome, you know. So I took a tour and we stopped there at our first stop and everyone was like, what is this place? I've never heard of it. And he deserves recognition. So smart to lead strong. Everyone knows lead strong. Yeah. And then we did. You know, I've only gone a couple times now and both times I just was blown away. Love those. And I'm going to say my third is a client of yours. So credit to you, Anthony, is definitely upside. Well, I would always put them number one. But then I felt like I kind of like, you know, like.

46:29These aren't clients of yours. The other two. Yeah, no, no. I try not to recommend clients first, but I mean, Upside has to be in the conversation. Yeah. Noam is like one of my favorite clients. I, you know, I just saw him the other day. He's, you know, I always stop in, see him when I'm in town. Yeah, Noam Grossman is going to be on the show later this week. And Upside is definitely my favorite slice in New York. I think FNF for me, just as a full pie and just like the way they're doing toppings is probably really, really, really close. as well. They're ingredients that they use. It's really hard to, you know, I mean, if that is part of your equation, FNFL has to be in the conversation, incredible ingredients.

47:12You know, I think Lucia Avenue X, which now they're on Canal Street, so you don't have to go to Avenue X anymore. Really great classic slice. I mean, you know, I'm always been a fan of Scar and what he does with flour and all that. And I just went to the new one for the first time recently. But when his Sicilian is on point, it's, you know, it's probably one of the best. I agree. I love the Sicilian there. I also love the Sicilian at FNF too. I can't forget to shout that out. They're just the bread there. But I think what Upside and what Scars has done has obviously linked youth culture, street culture, a little bit of hip hop, a little bit of New York City downtown culture.

47:54And that's a big part of when we think about pizza. It's about entering the shop, having a moment, having an experience. I think those two, you really got to give them credit. I mean, it's like you can't separate, you know, New York City from pizza. Yeah. You know, and like when was the last time you watched Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2? Oh, shit. The secret of those. I need to. It's been a while. Do yourself a favor. Been a minute, huh? Do yourself a favor. Bring that one up for the holidays. The opening sequence is I'm just so happy that someone captured this in film because it is the most awesome like film sequence of just like it's like a montage of like, you know, like an 80s, 90s New York montage of people walking.

48:43Oh, my God. It's that. But then it gets more and more ridiculous where everyone is eating pizza everywhere, like rich people in limousines, like people in a horse carriage going through Central Park. Like everyone's just like you like there's like a traffic light and like every single person on the corner is eating a slice. I love it. And, you know, I mean, it's like it's making a statement. I mean, you know, Home Alone 2 also. Baby Boom 2. I got to shout out the opening sequence of Baby Boom is pretty fucking epic to 1987 film. Baby Boom. Yeah. Oh, what is Baby Boom? Baby Boom is Diane Keaton.

49:17Oh, where she goes upstate. She starts a boutique jam company. Yes, a baby food upstate. Or baby food. Yeah. Good correction. Yeah. Is there a pizza sequence in that? There's definitely a slice in the opening montage. Absolutely. Check it out. Okay. This is not like, it's not like lost in New York. It's not like that, but it definitely has. That is a good movie. Yeah. That's a good call. It's good. I have not seen that. My wife is going to, it's really, it really holds up. Man, we, we, we could go in New York. I want to have you back. We're going to do this. This has just been such a delight to have you.

49:48What surprises you about pizza? I mean, when someone is, you know, doing it, um, on such a level that it, it surprises me how, uh, much more I have to learn, you know, you know, when you have a slice of pizza and you're just like, damn, like how they, a lot of places I go and I'm like, okay, I know what they're doing here. Yeah. There's some places when you go and you're just like, ah, wow. Like I, I need to, I need to go back. Is it like set up at the restaurant? Is it like the oven placement? Is it, you know, put doing something new with pineapple? I don't know. Like what, let's get some details.

50:25It's fermentation, you know, I mean like that's the hard part is the dough. Um, you know, which is, uh, cool. Cool. I think I was listening to your podcast you did with Maurizio and you know, his website, I mean, it's just endless and it takes that kind of mind to really get deep into to that like bread fermentation. It's just, it's crazy. And then, you know, for me, like doing all these different styles, like, you know, starting in Neapolitan, Neo-Neapolitan, and then going into New York and then Sicilian and then doing like Roman. It's like, it's challenging, you know? I mean, I think that's what surprises me is just how like little I've actually like mastered at this point.

51:10Yeah. You know, 15. I love that. You're humble. I appreciate that. And thank you for shouting out Marisa Leo, The Perfect Loaf. And we're actually working on a trip for October, November to Puglia in Naples. And we're going to hit some pizza. Nice. I'm doing a trip too. I should probably plug that. You do Modern Adventure. I saw that. Yeah, I'm doing a Modern Adventure to Rome and Sicily. Yeah, I love that. You do Modern Adventure. We do ATA, similar culinary trips. They're really fun. Tell me about yours. We are going to go to Rome, which is – and I'm going actually in February with my family to do a little scouting.

51:47Rome is just one of my favorite cities because, again, I'm a history nerd. So it's just like I geek out on the history side of it. And then it's just a great restaurant city for Italy. Italy is not always a great restaurant culture. I think the real soul of Italian food is in the home, like Casalinga, like housewife, you know, people cooking at home. But Rome has great restaurants. It's a great restaurant city. I mean, I went to Bon Chi Inn in Chicago. Okay. It was really good. Nice. I haven't been back to Rome in a few years, though. Do you have like three spots in Rome that you like to go for pizza?

52:27Yeah. I mean, definitely Roscioli, the porno, and get the pizza al paolo. It's awesome. Get a mortaza. It's fucking great. Perfect breakfast. 180 grommie in Cinticelli. A little outside of town. Very cool. I would call it like it's basically like the Roberta's of Roman pizza. You know, it's like outside of town. It's more like, you know, locals. And they're breaking the rules and doing fun stuff, but they're referencing Roman cuisine and, you know, like just awesome stuff. And then, I mean, I think, yeah, Banchi. Pizarium, yeah. Yeah, Pizarium for sure. For sure. You got to. Have you been to 50 Calo in Naples?

53:15No, I have not been to Naples since I started making pizza. It's been 20 something years since I've been in Naples. Oh my God. Magazine editors listen to this book, this story. Yeah. This needs to be like in print, you going to Naples. like it's it pitch the story writers do this come meet me in february because i'm coming i'm we're taking the kids for midwinter break and we're gonna go to rome and then we're gonna take the train to naples and we do like two or three days in naples um and i worked on a project in hong kong with a chef from naples roberta is her name actually cool um and she's an incredible pizza chef so they are gonna get all the inside recs from from the locals and i'm super excited about Sounds like a fun trip.

53:57And speaking of travel, I was randomly, coincidentally, I was in Phoenix this past weekend, and I went to Bianco. Great. Yeah, and I really wanted to go there to try Chris Bianco's pizza. And I think it's excellent. It's amazing pizza. I would not wait in line three hours for it because I wouldn't wait in line three hours for anything. But I wonder, my thought is this. It's a great pizza, like, hands down. I have to say we mentioned some pizzerias in New York. it's kind of on the level of a lot of places I try in New York and places I've had in, honestly, in like Detroit, even in Chicago, we're talking about neo-Neapolitan, of course, not, not, not what, not the other types, but what's your take on, on Chris Bianco, what it's meant.

54:41And maybe this idea that, you know, there's just great pizza everywhere. We don't need to go to Phoenix, but to get the pizza. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a story that is essentially, you know, um, the number one pizza in America is in Phoenix. It's a really, like it's a man by dog story, right? And it's like, do you know where to get the best pizza in America? In Phoenix, Arizona. It's 130 degrees inside and out. But, you know, I think that's – it didn't happen for no reason. And I think his philosophy we talked about a lot, you know, in the early days and it's informed my philosophy, the idea of using – you know, he talks about his pistachio pizza and he's like, I got pistachios everywhere so I'm going to make a pistachio pizza.

55:21You know, it's like he's in the desert and it's like there's great wheat There's this incredible wheat growing there. So he's using locally, you know, the wheat from around the region. And, you know, it's and he's cooking that wood fired pizza, but at a lower temperature. I mean, it's it's like he is so like responsible for so many of what, you know, my generation of pizza makers are doing. And he's, you know, like, we all look up to him and his, you know, every like, I love listening to him talk. It's like, he's, he's a great guy. and he's been very supportive of me. And, you know, he's just a really great guy.

56:02Absolutely. I can't wait to have him on the show. He's not going to be on Pizza Week, but we'll definitely have him on the show. And I agree. It was a great narrative for a lot of people, beard voters, for journalists. And amazing that he was able to create this ecosystem and get on Netflix, all that stuff. Yeah. And I just think the truth of the matter is, is when you talk about like the best pizza in the world or the best pizza in America, I mean, the top, you know, 50 are going to be, it's subjective at that point. You know, I mean, it's like you could talk about a place objectively using high quality ingredients.

56:33You know, I mean, a lot of the pizza, if, you know, if I go outside of this door, you know, there's going to be four or five pizza places. Well, I work here, I would say maybe two. Yeah, but there's a good amount of them that are using flour that's illegal in Brazil or illegal in Europe or China. You know, we like, so they don't, they don't even count for me. I mean, it just, you have to be into all these places that we talked about earlier are using great ingredients. And then like, that's, that's, and Chris is one of the guys who really was like, look, I know it's just pizza, but like, let's treat it with some respect and use great ingredients, you know?

57:11Oh my God. Yeah. Well said. I'm going to have to wrap this up because honestly, we're going to do a part two. We'll have you back. I want to talk about your pizza czar, your book. Okay. But briefly, are you going to work on another book? Because I really love this book. And I'm going to link to the show notes. You've got to check out this book. It has a lot of color. You're a great illustrator too, which we'll talk about in part two later on next year. Do you want to do another book? Yeah, I do. I'm working – actually, it was last night I was working on my – I've been working on two book pitches.

57:40Cool. Great. One of them is going to be more broadly Italian-American. I reckon there's going to be obviously a big pizza section in there. I don't in pizzas. I really have what I would call like an actual New York style pizza recipe. And that's something that I've been working on a lot lately. So that's going to be like kind of the lead recipe, but there's going to be a lot more pasta. I'm going to, I was writing a whole like kind of treaties on chicken parms and well, the parm world of parms. So did you know, for instance, that like, I mean, if you go to Italy, the only real parmigiana is eggplant.

58:20100%. Right. We've gone over this on the show. I can't remember which it is. So you know that. Absolutely. But did you know that if you go to Buenos Aires or you go to Sao Paulo, they have a huge parmigiana culture, but it's with beef. Yes. Yeah. So they have the filet parmigiana and it's, they go crazy for it. And that chicken parmigiana is a uniquely American thing. Completely. I'm telling an American dish. Yeah. We have chicken obviously out of everywhere, so we love chicken. Yeah, so I'm going to kind of break that down, and then how it all kind of then also goes back to like kotelette and schnitzel, and then that's where chicken fried steak comes in, and then what happens when you chicken fried steak and tonkatsu?

58:58You've got a cutlet book in you. Yeah. And I feel there's going to be a big cutlet chapter. It's a cutlet universe for you. I love it. I love your writing. I hope to read more of your books and have you back on and talk about them. Yeah. And then I want to do another book that's more of a history book, an amateur historian book called The History of the World Through Pizza, where I start in Gobekli Tepe and talk about wheat and how it basically, you know, what came first, like, you know, human civilization or, you know, agriculture and how there's actually a big debate. That's like the lean back Kindle book that you're.

59:38Yeah, exactly. Which, you know, who knows if someone will actually pay me to do that book. But I think about it a lot. Editors are listening to the show. We have plenty of industry people. So, yeah, it sounds really unique. And then also, before I get to the final section, you're doing a muffalada pop-up, which is not pizza. Yeah. You're down with muffalada, famous New Orleans dish. Why are you interested in muffaladas? So all the Falcos and Salvados and Cangeloses and all the – in my family that came to America, they came through New Orleans. And so that is the most famous – there's not a historical pizza culture in New Orleans because they were Sicilians.

1:00:21They didn't really know what pizza was, but they did start restaurants and they started things like Progresso Foods. Some of them became jazz musicians, but some of them started a sandwich called Mufaleta. Now, Mufaleta in Sicily is just the name of the bread and it's usually – The shape, right? Yeah. It's just like – and then they'll stuff it with just very simply maybe olives and anchovies and olive oil, like poverty food, right? but you know just like a lot of Italian American food they get here they have money they can afford meat now and so they you know abondanza they go overboard and a muffled is exactly that so it's olive tapenade giardinara it's it's usually like three kinds of meats I'm using I'm working with Framani and they're sponsoring they're great oh right on great great sponsor and they are doing they're sending us the salami rosa, which is awesome, and spicy capicola and the mortadella.

1:01:27And so, you know. That's your combo. Yeah, and it's like two parts mortadella to one part capicola and salami rosa. And then I do some pickled onions. I do parmigiano reggiano and I do a little vinegar, a little black pepper, and then some pistachio powder on there. Fun to have that. So this is just like for fun. And it's like a little bit of a holiday pop-up. I do it just so I can have one slice of it, you know. And I just – I love doing it. And I have these pans, these round 12-inch round pans. And it's – in my book, Pizzas Are, there's a Sicilian grandma recipe. And it's great for Sicilian pizza.

1:02:02It's great for Detroit. But it also just makes a great focaccia. And so you throw sesame seeds on that, bake it. I fresh bake the bread. It's all naturally leavened. And I use really good flour. And, you know. How many loaves are you baking for this? Like 30. I'll hand mix a batch of like, you know, 20 kilos. What do you bake out of? Do you have like a summer commissary or something? Well, that's the cool thing about these pop-ups is I can do it anywhere. Like just a convection oven. I can use – I do like – I can use a Breville toaster oven, you know, like it just – because it bakes at like 475 low temperature, you know.

1:02:36And so it's my – I'm doing it at my friend's restaurant, Club Club, in McCarran Park. And he has just like a convection oven and then a meat slicer. That's all I need to do the muffaletta pop-up. So fun. Make some fresh mozzarella and layer that in there. Hope to make it to one. Yeah, sure. All right, Anthony. On This Is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid-fire, fast-and-fierce taste check. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Let's do this. The best breakfast food. All right. It's going to have to be two. One, breakfast taco. And if I'm in Austin, I'm going to Veracruz All Natural.

1:03:09For sure. And I'm getting Migos Poblano. Dan. Love it. The number two, I have to do a global shout out here. That's the home breakfast. I was blown away by the breakfast culture in Taipei. And they do something called dambing, which is like a scallion pancake and then with an egg inside. And there was this one place I went to and it was like – and they have like hot sauce. And it was basically like a Taiwanese breakfast taco. It was awesome. Sounds amazing. And then you get fresh, warm soy milk with it. Oh, yeah. That's the key. Oh, I love fresh soy milk. The best dessert? Affogato. Favorite American fast food chain?

1:03:47How many locations? Let's say over 10. Okay. I mean, I grew up very, very hippie. We would not really do fast food, so I guess I have to go with In-N-Out. Fair. No Burger King crown in your past? I ate there once, and I was a bit horrified. Yeah, it's not my favorite. Okay, your favorite American fast food pizza chain? Okay, you're going to love this one. Jets. Oh, sick. I love it. It's a good call. It really is my favorite. I mean, it's also like the closest thing you can get to like old school pan Pizza Hut pan pizza because Pizza Hut is atrocious now. It's really, really bad now. And I was a Book It fan, obviously a big reader, work at Penguin House, and I got like a bunch of free pan pizzas.

1:04:28Back in the 80s, that shit was good. Yeah. Well, I have a whole chapter in pizzas are about the – and I reverse engineer the old school recipe called the buttercust pan pizza. Oh, my God. That's right. That's back from like the 90s. Yeah, dude. it's a time machine the land before time promo and you remember that little puppets i had the little guys god i love those puppets i had like three of them that's how much pizza hut i ate oh man let me ask you fuck are you for hire to like rethink pizza hut uh they actually reached out to me i'm not gonna lie to you they reached pizza someone from reach pizza hut reached out to me and i sent him my rates and i didn't hear back from so like i need you like it's the the the biggest companies tend to be the cheapest.

1:05:11A hundred. They don't, because they don't, they don't need you, right? They kind of, I feel like they understand because they, they revamped the look to make it look like old Pizza Hut. They did. But I don't think they have the intestinal fortitude to actually change their like recipes back to the like real ingredients. Oh, do you remember the Bigfoot pizza at Pizza Hut? I did. I never, that was, that was about when I started checking out. Yeah. They have a different cheese. Listeners like right in, they had a different cheese. It was really good. That wasn't Little Caesars? No, no. What was their big one?

1:05:42I mean, that was the one I grew up eating. Okay, the Bigfoot. Michigan. No, Bigfoot was definitely a Pizza Hut pizza. Okay. But it was oblong. It looked kind of like a Roman style shape. But they had a different cheese. And the Wikipedia, I can't remember, has information about this one, about the types of cheese they were using. They were using a very different, anyways. That's the innovative American pizza mind that the European can't comprehend. But this business is so big here. Look at the Super Bowl ads. There's still lots of pizza on Super Bowl ads. Yeah, there's logistical issues. You know what's interesting is I did a project in Guyana, Georgetown, Guyana, and it was a very high-end Neapolitan restaurant with pasta.

1:06:27It's great. What's it called? It's called Amici. Really great clients, but they operated, and they still operate the Pizza Hut franchise there. And because there's no way to do the cold chain, so they can't send the frozen stuff, they do it the old school way where they make all the dough fresh in-house. And it was kind of like kind of banging. Like to the letter. The way that the Pizza Hut corporate wants it, but they don't have to make it all in like Sioux Falls and ship it to French. Yeah. And they were making it like they had to fall back on the old SOPs, you know? Yeah. And I was digging it.

1:07:05I love that. Right about that. So if you're in Georgetown, get that. Yeah, sick. A couple more. Your favorite thing to drink with pizza? I mean, I think, like, the first thing that comes to my mind is an ice-cold Coca-Cola in a glass bottle. And I think, like, if you go to Naples, that's, like, the traditional pairing is a Coca-Cola. But, you know, if I'm going to get fancy, it's going to be, like, a natural risotto. Yeah. You know. It's nice. Yeah. Having a light risotto. Yeah. Yeah, something nice little rosé. something with some acidity to hold up and to like go against the fat of all the pizza.

1:07:40Do you believe in Lambrusco with pizza? That's more of... Push back. We wrote an article about that. I'd love to hear your take. Like that's like 2008 Roberta's. It's like what pizza, you know, like what should we pair with this? Oh, Lambrusco. You know, it's a little, I think it's a... Yeah, it's a dated trope. Yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah. But, you know, I don't think it makes sense. Isn't beer bad with pizza? I never got into beer and pizza. I never got it either. I never got it. I felt the bitterness actually is what the biggest problem. With carbonation, fine. You know, we love Coke with pizza, but the bitterness is like blow your palate out.

1:08:20Also, just like the bloatedness, you know? Like just like it's like beer and ramen. Like it seems like a good idea and then you're dying once the noodles start to expand. It's a bit much. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Which, I mean, I've got to go Mufaleta, right? Well, we covered that. Okay. All right. All right. So, I mean, then it's going to be just mortazza. Yeah. Just, you know, like a nice Pizza Bianca with just mortadella and literally nothing else. That's it. Anthony Falco, what a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining this Taste. The pleasure was all mine. Thank you for having me.

1:08:57This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.