354: Alex Prud’homme & Ali Rosen

27:25And so one of my agendas with this book is to get people who think that food and politics are boring, interested, kind of lure them in with food because it's something we all relate to. We all have to eat. It's a very human impulse to sit down and break bread together. And so I hope that this current political climate where we're not eating together will pass soon and then we'll learn to once again get together. You've got 200 members of Congress in a room. What are you eating? What is on the menu of this meal that you eat? It was a really – I was surprised. I was expecting the rubber chicken.

28:02But no, it was a really nice menu. They started with a tomato tart. It was kind of a French-inflected American meal, which was kind of perfect for someone like me. Then there was a striped bass entree with lovely vegetables, and there was a salad. and then they had Abe Lincoln's gingerbread cookies for dessert. Oh, man. And some good wine. They're keeping it light. They're keeping it light. They're keeping it like a working dinner. They don't want their members of Congress going into a food coma. There's still work to be done. Yeah. Are they obviously, or maybe not obviously, are they American wines?

28:39I think they were. Okay. Well, you know, maybe not obviously. You don't need to be that. There's not going to be flags in the menus or anything like that. Well, the menus were cool. And this is something that they do at the White House also. They have a beautiful printed menu. And when people go to a state dinner, they get so kind of overwhelmed by being there that they forget who they've sat with and what they ate. And so the tradition is you each sign the menus of the other people at your table so that the next day you can see what you ate and who you sat with. Whoa. You got it. So we did that the other night.

29:11Can this invite happen? Oh, that's cool. That's cool. Can this invite happen? You got to get to a state dinner and write about it. I can't. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. Yeah, just keep saying that. Yeah, exactly. All right. So we talked last time about your story in The New Yorker about a soup restaurant that's literally around the corner from our office on 56th Street that informed or inspired the character, the soup Nazi in Seinfeld. Yeah. Are you going to do the follow-up? I'm prodding you to do work. I'm sorry. I hear you. I don't know what the follow-up would be. I mean, it did at one point when that Seinfeld episode came out, it did spur all sorts of crazy soup restaurants all over New York, many of which have disappeared since then.

29:54But that was kind of a funny moment. And Al Yagane, the chef there, you know, he's a character. And I've been back once in a while just to check on him. Sometimes he's there, sometimes he's not. But he's really into what he does. And he spends six months a year traveling and exploring and finding new soup recipes and new ingredients. And so he takes his cooking very seriously. I love it. I want to connect with him, and maybe you'll write the story for Taste. We'll get there. We'll figure it out. You're a busy guy. All right. On This is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid-fire, fast-furious taste check.

30:31Alex, are you ready? The best breakfast food. Well, I've been eating a lot of heavy breakfast lately as I've been on the road. So right now, fresh fruit, yogurt, and crinola with a lot of coffee. Maintenance breakfast. I love it. Yeah. The best dessert. Best dessert. Well, one of my favorites is Julia's Tarte Tarte, which is an upside down caramelized apple dessert that I love. And it's a fun thing to make. That makes an appearance on the TV show on HBO Max. Yeah. I believe so. Yeah. Your favorite New York City restaurant right now. Oof. That's so tough. you know I really still love Via Carotta I still love the old faithful Via Carotta, Rida Sodi and Jody Williams' Italian restaurant downtown.

31:17This past summer my wife and I went to visit my Italian cousins in Rome and then we went up to Paris and it was the first time we'd been back since before COVID and it was just so great and if you go to Via Carotta you get a little taste of it Yeah a little bit of that European style, I agree It's a nice place. Favorite American fast food chain? Well, aside from In-N-Out, I guess Shake Shack. I know Danny Meyer a little bit. It's a fun place, you know. Is there a president that you think would be super into fast food that we didn't expect? Well, you know about Clinton and you know about Trump.

31:49We do. I think, you know, Obama has a reputation for being a very healthy and sophisticated eater, but he likes a good burger. And when he was campaigning, he ate a lot of steak and soul food on the road. And so I think you'd be surprised that Mr. Healthy Obama would indulge once in a while. Yeah, good call. Your favorite cookbook of all time? Well, it's probably one of the Julia books. Maybe The Way to Cook, which is the big colorful one. I've used that more than the other ones. But the one that's just been reissued, The French Chef Cookbook, which I highly recommend to people, which was the recipes from the first season of The French Chef.

32:36It's full of really good recipes. And because they were made for half-hour TV shows, they're all pretty quick and pretty simple and straightforward. And the reissue is just a beautiful volume that they've really done a great job on. That's so cool. Can we watch the original episode somewhere? You can watch them in various places, yeah. They're online, available streaming. Streaming services. Amazon, yep. Yeah. Is there like a tip to watch the old shows? I mean, I'm sure some are better than others or some might be feel like a little bit more prescient than others. Is there a favorite of yours?

33:11You know, I love the ones that Julia did with Jacques Pepin. Oh, me too. And I think that the dynamic between the two of them, it's so much fun because they're both really good cooks. They're both strong willed. And the creative tension between them is so inspiring and dynamic and funny, you know. And, you know, they're just giving each other a hard time, but they're best friends and the food is fabulous. And the conceit to the show and to the book is a given dish, like a hamburger, for example, his way and then her way. Yeah. And the patter between the two of them is just hilarious. How about her and James Beard on camera?

33:53I feel like they had a pretty cool day. Yeah. You know, they tried that. Yeah. And I saw the test pilot, which was never aired. I saw it at a WGBH archive. Wow. And it was sad because James Beard, who trained as an opera singer and was a wonderful performer live, he just wasn't very good on television. Yeah. And Julia kept trying to goose him and he would stare down at his food and kind of mumble. And he didn't have that zip that you need for television. Yeah. It's a very unique art that maybe doesn't translate from a lot of things. Yeah. She really did. She was a magnetic performer on camera.

34:29Yeah. And her ignorance was actually a benefit to her. She had no idea about TV. They didn't even own a television when they first. No way. Yeah. And it took a while before they made enough money from the book sales that they finally bought a little TV. Is there a moment in Julia's life when she realizes how famous she was? I think so. But she was actually a very modest person. She didn't like to toot her own horn, as she would put it. And so there must have been a moment when she realized when you're walking through the airport and people are coming up to you and asking for your autograph and trying to carry your suitcase for you.

35:05And she would insist on carrying her own suitcase. And, you know, every time you go into a restaurant, you cause a sensation. I think there's a moment where you realize, wow, this thing is really catching on. But, you know, she was on the cover of Time magazine in 1967. She'd already won these awards. And it's, by then, I think she realized it. And yet behind the scenes, she was having a tough time getting the ideas that she wanted to air through the WGBH process. And so, you know, for example, she thought of doing a series about her cooking with other chefs. And their response was, well, people don't want to watch other chefs.

35:43They want to watch you. Well, of course she was right. And I think it was a good 10 or 15 years later when she did Cooking with Master Chefs, where she won her second Emmy. And those books are fantastic. And, you know, she put people like Lydia Bastianich and Emeril Lagasse. She helped put them on the map, put them on television and get them going. And so, again, this is why she's kind of the patron saint of the modern American food movement. She also revolutionized travel food television, too, by taking shows on the road, doing like a reportage style, which certainly was more costly. And I'm sure she kind of felt a little bit of a pushback from her producers for that.

36:25For sure. For sure. Yeah. And one of those was taking her cameras into the White House, into the White House kitchen specifically, which had never been done before. and that was in 1967. And so actually when we were in Provence with the childs that summer, she had just come in from Washington from doing the White House. And, you know, maybe that lodged in the back of my kid brain and I remembered it years later, but, you know, she was really riding high and she loved it. She just loved it. But she didn't take her celebrity that seriously. She loved teaching and learning about cooking. I'd love to hear that.

36:59Your last one, your favorite sandwich. Well, as a guy who spends time in Maine, I have to go with the lobster roll. And I'm a guy, I like the colder lobster roll with the mayo. Other people like the hot lobster roll with the butter. I don't know who those people are. I know. I was raised on the traditional New England lobster roll. But then, of course, there's always, you know, like a BLT or a tuna melt. I mean, I love those kind of sandwiches. What a good choice. I love the lobster roll coming into this conversation. Alex Crudum, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Such a pleasure. My pleasure.

37:36Thanks so much, Matt. And bon appétit.

37:47Allie Rosen, welcome to This Is Taste. Good to see you. Thank you so much for having me. I love a lot of things that you do. You know, you do television. We'll get into that. but I also am so impressed that you have highly acclaimed, highly visible projects in both cookbooks and fiction. How the fuck do you do that? I don't know. I'm really tired. Also, the publishing schedule. I mean, it's, you know, you write stuff and then some things take years and some things take a lot. So it looks like I'm really productive right now, but catch me in a few years. Let's start with fiction. Recipes for Second Chances.

38:26Amazon reviews. Let's go here. Allie wrote a magnificent rom-com book with great visuals, love, and dealing with relationships. Definitely a good read. I absolutely devoured it. Magical setting, amazing story, and a great second chance romance. These are written within like a day of each other. Yeah, it was fiction is wild. I mean, it's very different from cookbooks and it's just been delightful to kind of see a different audience and a different type of reader. You know, cookbooks are a certain type of reader, but fiction is very different. And romance readers are very different. So I, you know, I'm very lucky to kind of straddle that like women's fiction romance space.

39:03And so they're very voracious readers. They show up fast. No, it's cool. And how did you get into writing fiction? Because I've known you for a long time and I knew you strictly as a television producer on air and a cookbook author. But how did you like transition in that world? I just during COVID was burnt out, I think, in the way that a lot of people were. And I needed a creative outlet that wasn't something that I'd been doing. So I had just finished my last cookbook, Modern Freezer Meals. And I just I had an you know, I had a conversation with a friend that kind of turned into this idea. And I started writing and I was like, oh, I'm actually really enjoying this.

39:36So in a pretty short span, I just kind of wrote this story. And I was like, I think this could be something. And I sent it to my agent. And she was like, great, I don't do fiction. So I really had to start completely over. I mean, it's a totally different space. And of course, it has nothing to do with your following or what you've done before. It's really just like some, you know, editors have to read the book and like it. So it was sort of it was a very humbling experience to be like, oh, nothing I've done in the past will matter to this. People just have to like the book. That's really, really well said.

40:07I mean, there's no social profile or whatever. I mean, you have a great social profile, but it doesn't matter. So I'm like interested. You said you just you started writing. Had you taken fiction courses? Had you outlined? I mean, are you a voracious fiction reader? Well, what's your story? make me sound like such an asshole when I say, no, I just started writing. I mean, I am a voracious fiction reader. Again, another thing to make me sound like an asshole. No, no. This is a safe space. Yeah, exactly. This is a group of readers, I'm guessing. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean, I'm a huge fiction reader.

40:38And especially during COVID, I really stopped watching television because I was just home all day. So I went from being somebody who would read, you know, a book a week to reading two or three books a week. And I just, and I was reading all of these, I call them happy books, but I mean, just books that I knew ended well, either romance or fiction that I kind of knew the ending or like, you know, cozy mysteries were like, you know, it's all going to end okay. And just the more that I read them, I was like, maybe I could do this. And I think a lot of people have that feeling of like, oh, I have a story that would be interesting to tell in this.

41:11And the more I kind of noodled on it, the more I was like, I think I could try this. And I didn't really think it would be anything. I didn't tell anyone. I mean, I didn't tell my husband even until I sold the book. I mean, I just was kind of like, who wants to hear about their friend's novel? That's so cool. I would probably do the same. I mean, I feel like you got to have these side projects and you don't want to like become the next great American novel person. Right. And it might be bad. I mean, you don't know. I think there are some people who work on their craft as a craft and then there are some people who are just like creative people who are always creating something.

41:45So you never know. I mean, the number of things that I have created that never saw the light of day. I mean, shows and things, you know, so you just kind of work on stuff that feeds your soul outside of the things that are money-making projects. And some of the things that feed your soul turn into money-making projects. Yeah. Okay. So Recipe for Second Chances, like it clearly has a food theme. So let's get into what it's about briefly without any spoilers. What's going on here? Yeah. So it's about a woman, Stella Park, who is she works at a food magazine. She's a recipe writer. So, you know, something that something I know something about.

42:21And she goes to the wedding of a friend. She has a friend who's marrying an Italian guy and her friend is Indian. And so they have this big Italian Indian wedding in Umbria. And while she's there, she runs into her ex from 10 years ago. And the story is kind of going back and forth in time of like what went wrong then and how it is now. So there's a lot of food in it because not only is she a recipe writer, but it's set in Umbria. So it's really kind of just like a little romp of an escape love story, you know. I'll link to the show notes. I love it. I can't wait to read. I'm going to check it out for sure.

42:52And I want to know Umbria. It's a place I've always wanted to visit. I was doing a taste travels in Puglia and our head guide was from Umbria and was like all about it. And it's like she called it like cool, wild Tuscany. Yes. Why Umbria? It's cool. I want to go. I've never been. I fell in love with it. I mean, I just think it's so underrated. It's so much less expensive. I mean, I think people are like, oh, I'm going to go to the same 10 places that I'm going to go to a mall fee. And it's like, OK. Or I mean, I now go we rent a house in Italy in different random parts of Italy every summer. And it is so much less.

43:25Everyone's like, it's so fancy. And I'm like, it is so much less expensive to rent a house in Umbria or Liguria or, you know, Montmorano. Amelia Romagna, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, then sort of anywhere else in the New York tri-state area where I live, I mean, the plane tickets plus the house is still less expensive. So I just felt like Umbria is one of those magical places that people in the U.S. don't know as much about. And so I wanted to share it because I think sometimes – I mean, I read because I want to escape. I want to learn about new places. And I mean, again, if you're reading a memoir or a biography or history, you're learning about history.

43:59But I think in the romance women's fiction space, you know, what you're mostly learning is kind of a place, a time, emotion. So I just wanted to bring Umbria to people. So is Stella going to have another another romp, another another chapter? Sadly, my publisher does not like series. And so Stella does not get another romp. But, you know, a different woman named Bea gets her romp in my next book. But she goes to Ireland. So. Oh, Ireland. Underrated food scene for sure. Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. I mean, that's another thing that sort of just shocked me as I went to Ireland a few years ago and I was like, huh, like I'm not really expecting to have any great meals here.

44:35And I had some of the best seafood of my life in Ireland. And I was just shocked by that. And now one of my best friends lives in Dublin. So Ireland is now very close to my heart. So yeah. So I guess I'm just going to write fiction where people go places and I just get to think about food in other countries. Is that book done? That book is done. That book comes out May 7th. And I'm now working on a third book. Oh, well, smash the pre-order. Yeah. I love it. Alternate endings. So, yeah, Ireland had some good contemporary fiction in its setting and also good. Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, like Irish writers, I mean, I think like of the Booker nominees this year, like nine out of ten of them were Irish.

45:11I mean, so it's like I'm not writing great literature about Ireland, but I am creating a fun escape to Ireland. I love it. So let's talk about television. How did you get into television? I know many listeners will know you from your work in New York, or your New York listeners at least. You know, you're on television all the time. Yeah. My show, Potluck with Allie Rosen, is in its 15th season. And I got that show. You know, I worked at a website that we don't have to name where I was doing tons of video content. I mean, I started my career in news production. And then I realized I don't care about the news enough.

45:42Does that feed in the title, the name of the website? No. Okay. No. All right. I know. I'm like, we can talk off a lot. I mean, you're so cagey. Yeah, I love it. Let's keep it. Let's give it. I don't want to give them a shout out. But they should not be mentioned. Yeah, they don't get a shout out. Absolutely not. I, you know, I moved from news into food and I'm very grateful for the fact that I was doing tons of content. I mean, that was sort of in the era where people were like, wow, we can do video on websites and we can just make videos all the time and they don't have to be good. We just need content, content, content.

46:12But I learned a lot. And so then I pitched my show to MYC Life, which is, you know, for anyone who's not from New York, it's sort of New York has its own public television station. And really, it's all about the culture of New York. So some, you know, they do food content, historical content, cultural content. And so I'm kind of in the food. And so, I mean, my job is just to interview chefs and writers about food and learn. I mean, my job is just to learn. So it's really been a total dream. And I hope that they never cancel me because I will do it forever. I mean, you're, you're like part of the wallpaper of New York City food media.

46:47No, you are. And you're great at it. I love your show. I've caught it online. I've caught it on television. Have you been tried, have poached you away to go to like the other, other spots? No, I mean, it's interesting. You know, I had, you know, if people are like, what does this girl do forever? But I mean, I've, I had a show that I've wanted to do forever called route to table where we, we really pitched it around where we wanted to show sort of a single piece of food from start to finish. Um, like, you know, starting with like a fisherman and then end up in a restaurant and nobody ever bought that.

47:18Yeah. So, I mean, I certainly, it's very expensive. Yeah, exactly. Um, so yeah, no, you know, I have lived in my little public television bubble for so long and I'm, yeah, it's, it would be interesting. I don't know. Yeah. If somebody ever wants to make that show, let me know. Well, you know, public radio and public television, it has a real spirit and a real journalistic backbone to it. Yes. You're not dealing with SpawnCon. It really is some of the best work. I never have to vote anyone off an island. I mean, it's just, it's like, it's so delightful because I mean, really, you know, I have 23 minutes and 46 seconds to talk to people about really the nitty gritty of what they're doing.

47:56And in television, that is so rare. Like if I want to have a segment about like, what is Masa? Yeah. I mean, I can talk about that for seven or eight minutes. I mean, which just is sort of unheard of in any other television format. So I feel so lucky to be in public television. I mean, yeah, like we don't, you know, you don't have the same budget in public television, but you have, yeah, you have the ability to tell stories in a way that very few people get to do. So. Have there been any recent segments you've taped that you want to call out, you know, chefs or anybody in New York who really excites you?

48:29I love cookbooks, as I know you do as well. So, I mean, I'm always so thrilled when I get to have cookbook authors on. I mean, and especially cookbook authors when they come from out of town and, you know, the timing. I mean, we had Rick Martinez in last season from, you know, his book. Yeah. And I just, I adore his entire energy. I mean, he just like, I feel, is one of those people who makes the world happier and better. So, I mean, I loved having him in. You know, I loved having Leah Kanigan for her book Portico about, I mean, because I'm Jewish and I love Italian food. So it's like she literally wrote a book about Roman Jewish food.

49:07I was like, this is everything. It's truly one of my favorite books from last year. She's been on the show and I've called it out. It's an amazing book. It's just a fantastic book. So I feel like, especially when I get to have people like her, or I had, you know, the authors of the Shalom Japan, people who had a book, Hello Japan. You know, it's just, it's so special to get to talk to people in a way that I think a lot of cookbook authors don't get to do as much TV unless they are famous, you know? So it's special to not only be able to have them on my show, but also give them, yeah, like seven or eight minutes to do a recipe, talk about the origins of their book.

49:42I mean, you're so lucky. I mean, with a podcast, you can do that. But with TV, it's very rare. I know. It's a really different medium. We got many more coming in. And you called out two or three of our authors here. So appreciate that. You have good taste in books here. Thank you so much. All right, Ali, I want to talk about your cookbook career, but first Charleston, South Carolina, you grew up there and I'd love to get a sense of what food was like in your household growing up. Yes. I mean, my household was, um, a lot of Southern food. You know, my mom's from Rhode Island and my dad is from Charleston.

50:12So we had quite a mismatch of cuisines there. Seafood though. A lot of, oh my God, so much seafood. I, you know, it's funny because Charleston has become this immense culinary destination. And And at the time that I was growing up, Charleston was really – I'll just put it politely. It was not. You know, it was southern food and then a smattering of other things. I mean, we had people referred to as the ethnic restaurant. It was Italian slash Chinese. And then it was like a really big deal when a Chinese restaurant opened by the mall. I mean, Charleston just in the last 20 years has completely exploded in a way that I don't think anybody could have predicted.

50:51And it's amazing now because a lot of these, you know, chefs that are sort of known as Charleston chefs, a lot of these cuisines like barbecue that are now really present in Charleston just were not there when I was growing up. So, I mean, we had a lot of seafood. You could get shrimp and grits everywhere. There were roasted oysters. I mean, a lot of those things when you look at low country cuisine, that is all true. But kind of the wider like net of southern food just did not exist in Charleston. And now you we've become a catch all city for it because there's so many tourists that any type of place can open.

51:25I love South Carolina barbecue. I love I love South Carolina hash. Yes. One of my favorites. Oh, my God. It's so good. But it was never you know, it's interesting. Like when I was growing up, there was maybe one barbecue restaurant that was not in downtown. I mean, it's sort of far out. And most I mean, if you want to barbecue, it's like if you were doing a trip to the upstate or sort of going outside of the city, that's where you could get barbecue. And now, I mean, it's funny. You look at lists of like the best barbecue in the South and a bunch of them are in Charleston. And I'm like, this is so great for us.

51:54I mean, we love it. I'm heading there in a couple of weeks. So I'm going to report back on the show, if not already, about my trip there. So, yeah. I mean, home team, I love. Lewis's, I love. I mean, Rodney Scott, I mean, does not need any more press. No, Rodney, we publish his books. He's great. I'm going to catch up with Rodney when I'm down there. Yeah, I mean, he's the loveliest. But I mean, it's the number of like really like high level, like best in the nation barbecue spots that are now in Charleston is sort of insane. But yeah, I mean, Rodney is from Lexington, South Carolina. He's not from Charleston, but now he's - Have you been out to a spot in Lexington?

52:25I, you know, I did many years ago. I mean, this is sort of going to date me, but there was many years ago when there was an event called the Big Apple Barbecue in New York. I don't know if you remember that. And I met Rodney there and he was like, you have to come, you know, when you're in Charleston. So one day I drove up and went to his place. I mean, before he really, not to be like, I saw him first, but before he really, really blew up, it was, um, yeah, he's amazing. No, it's, it's cool. Well, we'll talk more about Charleston later on the show, but let's hear about this cookbook idea. It is, or not idea, this cookbook.

52:55I mean, the idea is what I'm trying to say is, is kind of out there. And I mean that with all compliments because I think you've executed a book that I think many people have probably pitched, but they've never quite been made. We've got 30 minute meals. Rachel Ray was famous for those. And of course, we know 30 minutes is a great time frame for making dinner. You wrote a book about 15 minute meals. How the fuck like, is it possible? It genuinely is possible. I mean, the reason I wrote the book was because I started to realize like, oh, we can actually do this. I mean, I think that there are certain assumptions that people make, especially people in food of things that add flavor and things that must be done.

53:41And therefore, we do not go around those things. You know, like we do not go around onions when we want onions, you know, like you have to caramelize the onions. And again, during I guess COVID was a very inspirational time for me. I mean, my son and I, we were so bored and he couldn't go to school. So we started doing these Instagram lives where we were like 15 minute meals and we'll see if we can make it. Oh, that's fine. And yeah. And I mean, just because I mean, I had nothing to do, you know, he's now eight. So I mean, at the time he was five. I mean, it was just a nightmare of being home alone.

54:10And so we kind of came up with this idea of every day, like, let's come up with something we can make in 15 minutes. And I was sort of shocked at what you could do in 15 minutes, as long as you were willing to set aside the notions of like what should be done. So, I mean, a lot of that would be like, you know, I mean, I wrote a book about freezer food, so I love frozen things. I mean, frozen vegetables are actually picked at peak and flash frozen. So they're actually in some ways a higher quality than what you can often find in the grocery store. So, I mean, using pre-cut frozen vegetables, great.

54:42We also live in this kind of golden age of ingredients. I mean, I'm sure, as you know from your books, I mean, you can get gochuchang now, no matter where you are in the country, in a way that you could not 10 years ago. You can get tamarind paste. You can get miso. You can get so many ingredients that just were not readily available and add so much flavor. So, So like at a time where you used to caramelize onions, it's like, okay, but if you added anchovy paste and fish sauce and, you know, chili crisp and all of these things, like you can add a lot of depth of flavor with a lot of these ingredients that take no time.

55:19And so if you take advantage of faster cooking, you know, proteins or pre-cut vegetables or even just vegetables that take less time, like bok choy and snap peas and, you know, mung beans and things that just don't take a long time. And then you put in ingredients that have a lot of flavor, but. It's really smart. So I'm getting a sense and I want you to walk us through, like, give us your best pitch on your 15 minute meal. But I'm getting a sense there's no ovens involved or very few. Yeah, the broiler only. Broiler only. And then it's mostly stovetop. And it's mostly medium to high temperature.

55:54Yeah, it's a lot of high temperature. A lot of high temperature, which is great. Like, I love my walk. We talk about it a lot on the show. It's a great way to cook food in 10 minutes. Okay, so take us through the 15-minute meal of our dreams. That I am going to buy your book. I'm going to do this at home tonight. Because I want to make dinner in 15 minutes. Because I've got to watch three seasons of Slow Horses. because I am catching up on this great show. I don't want to spend time cooking. Yeah, and I think that's kind of where everybody is. It's like we all want to cook for ourselves, but 30 minutes is actually a really long time.

56:29Like that feels difficult. So, I mean, I would say like the easiest things to make, as you sort of alluded to, are like the rice, the things in a wok. You know, you take ground, I mean, ground meat is one of like the greatest gifts to humanity. You know, like take some ground pork, put some fish sauce and soy sauce in it, throw in some snap peas and frozen peas and put it over rice and buy that minute rice you can make in the microwave. I mean, that's a seven minute meal, you know what I mean? So there's a lot of things like that. And then there's a lot of stuff that I was just really surprised about.

57:01Like, you know, one of my favorite recipes is like a gingery chicken and rice soup. Well, if you take coconut milk and instead of peel, I mean, ginger, you don't have to peel it if you're, I mean, so So throw a full thing of ginger root, the full thing of garlic cloves. No need to like nick your fingers up with the peeler. Correct. Like throw them in your blender and blend it up and then it's done. And then you just brown some ground chicken and put in whatever vegetables and whatever rice you want and bam. But that's going to have a ton of, and I think that recipe also has fish sauce. Like that has so much flavor and you didn't really do anything.

57:33So, I mean, I think it's not that I don't love a braise or something that takes a long time. It's just there's a lot of flavor that you can get by, yeah, blender, wok, broiler. I mean, and a sharp knife. I mean, you have those things and it doesn't have to be as complicated as we make it. And I think we get into these mindsets of like, oh, well, it has to be a certain way or this has to include, you know, a certain ingredient or we have to, you know, present it in a certain way. And it's like you can have a lot of similar flavors for things, but just do it in a faster way. I love it. So I'm putting you in the spot because I think jars are definitely part of this equation.

58:08So many jars. So your go-to pasta sauce. I'm just putting you on the spot. Yeah, I mean, Rayo's, I guess. I mean, I hate... It's not bad. It's not a bad sauce. I mean, I, you know, I... I had it last night, in fact. I mean, again, I'm going to sound really like... I mean, I live right next to the Union Square Farmer's Market. So there's ugly tomatoes. Like, they have a sauce. So, I mean, that's what I buy most often. But Rayo's is dope. Yeah, that's the best of, like, widely available. What about your favorite marinade in a jar? Oh, my favorite marinade in a jar. I don't do a lot of marinated jar.

58:39You know, I do a, I'm like the person who like gets a lot, I eat a lot of ramen, but I throw out the packet. So yeah. You use the noodles, but you throw out the packet. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I feel like, unless it's like a packet that's just like soy sauce and sesame oil. I mean, yeah. Okay. Allie, what is the biggest time waster when cooking? The biggest time waster when cooking, I think is chopping things. I mean, and chopping things with a dull knife. Like that has been the most amazing thing to watch. When I was writing this book, I had, I mean, with all of my books, I've had people recipe test.

59:12Like I literally will post on Facebook and be like, who wants to test recipes? So it's not food people. It's just people who are home and cooking. And obviously with this book, I was like, okay, I want you to time yourselves and whatever. And it was interesting. Like anything that required chopping, that was where the range of the recipe really shifted. So, I mean, I really tried to reduce the number of things that would have to be chopped in a recipe because that, yeah, people don't sharpen their knives. And a sharp knife is a much safer knife. And it also just, yeah, it's time consuming. So, yeah, I would say chop less.

59:47So chop less. Use like your appliances or just go whole. Yeah. And frozen vegetables are amazing. And there's just a lot of vegetables that you can use that you don't have to prep, you know. I mean, snap peas is one of the greatest examples. Bok choy is another great example. You chop off the end and then it's there and it cooks in like three minutes. It's great. So why don't we use that more? Why is everyone making broccoli when they could make bok choy? Bok choy is great. Okay. So let me ask you, we are in like early January. We're like heading into our big cooking season. Yeah. First off, what bores you the most right now in the kitchen?

1:00:23Honestly, the thing that bores me the most is people trying to make food look pretty all the time. Like use a pretty napkin and a bowl and take that like giant bowl of brown delicious slop and eat it. Like, I mean, I just like I'm sort of sick of that. You know, like it's not everything is not for Instagram. Like it should taste delicious. Yeah. And we're talking about also, you know, something that's maybe protein rich. You know, if you're a figure fat or less carb or I mean, whatever your dietary choices are. And like maybe we don't need it to look like absolutely perfect to like hit those dietary marks.

1:00:56And you don't have to like buy parsley, just sprinkle on top of it so it looks better. Like just have it be ugly and eat it and enjoy it. Okay. So what excites you most in the kitchen right now? I mean, I think really the access to ingredients and high quality ingredients. I mean, I just think it's amazing. Like whenever I go to Charleston, I always go to my parents' local Harris Teeter because I'm sort of curious like what's in there. And it's just amazing to me that like at any grocery store across the country now, you know, you can get incredible ingredients across cultures and cuisines. And I mean, what that opens up for people is remarkable.

1:01:32And then even if you live in a place where you can't get that, get it shipped. I mean, shelf stable ingredients are a two day ship away. So I mean, I'm sort of amazed that people don't go out of their comfort zone when there's such readily available ingredients. Agree. And it's just kind of fun. Yeah. Like buy a few things online and try them out. Right. And see if you like it. And maybe you won't, but you might discover, like there's a few ingredients that I'm sort of obsessed with that I feel like I've made other people like tamarind paste is like one of my like great favorite things and it's so sour and it's sour yeah and it just you don't need to add much more to it and so it's it's kind of amazing to me when people will look at a recipe like I don't want to buy this one ingredient I'm like but it's one ingredient versus like eight spices that you would buy like just buy the tamarind paste you'll love it I love it okay so you've got fiction on the horizon so you got this may release yeah what What about on the cookbook side?

1:02:25What do you want to work on right now? What are you thinking? I'm thinking I'm going to take a nap. Yeah, no doubt. Maybe there is nothing. Maybe you want to chill. I do. I mean, I think cookbooks are kind of my first great love. Like I am a voracious consumer and lover of cookbooks. So I don't think I would ever say that there isn't something else to come. But I am really loving doing the kind of books that are easy for people. You know, it's the great the only great thing about social media is that the single thing that is social media, everything else about it. But I do love when people write me, tag me, show me what they're making and just say, like, wow.

1:03:06With 15 minute meals, it's just been such a delight. People are like, oh, my God, it actually is 15 minutes. But the fact that you can, like, bring a little piece of joy into people's life is really special. And I'm sure you've felt this way when people cook from books you've written. Like you just feel like everybody's lives are so complicated and you're sort of bringing like food is a thing that brings people together. It makes people happy. So I don't know. To me, it's like finding other ways to kind of, I hate the word hack, but like. I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah. Like, you know, sort of give people ideas to make their lives a little easier while not compromising on the flavor.

1:03:40I mean, I think that's special. So, yeah, that would, I mean, something in that vein would be next, whether it's, you know, more 15-minute meals or it's something else. I mean, my, you know, Modern Freezer Meals was a book that I had to really fight to publish because everybody thought, you know, freezer food is boring. And but I'm sort of not it's not. And I mean, and again, it's like it's just a great way to make your life easier. So that's yeah, I will keep trying to do that. I love it. OK, this is Taste. We ask us about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.

1:04:11Allie, are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit? A summer peach from South Carolina. Peaches are so up and down for me. Right. You have to get a good one. That's why it has to be from South Carolina. Yeah. The worst vegetable. I don't know if I can say that. I mean, I love all vegetables. Are you in the pocket of a lobby? Come on. I mean, I guess beets. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. They're like lower tier for me. Yeah. The best dessert. Just like summer strawberries with whipped cream. I sense there's a theme. I'm a fruit kind of gal. Yeah, you're a fruit. I'm a fruit gal. Yeah. Your favorite New York City restaurant right now.

1:04:46Yeah, I mean, this is so hard for me, but I just, I've been going to Foxface Natural a lot, which I know feels sort of like everybody said that, but I love Dave Santos. Call it out. It's a great spot. And Laura, I am still angry about Pete Wells' review of Laura like 10 years ago. And so the fact that he got three stars for Foxface Natural just makes me so happy. Yeah, Dave Santos, I loved having the show. He's somebody who I've kind of crossed paths with over the years. And Laura was really like an incubator of ideas and talent. so underrated and i just it was it was like it just it was so good and so i mean fox face natural is also so good but it's it's what he's been doing forever so watching him get all this praise has just been i keep thinking about that hunger games character the fox face character yes with that name but i don't know i know the name i don't know but it's okay the restaurant great cool all right your favorite american fast food chain papa is i mean i'm from the south i love that how do you eat the biscuit it's a trick question just eat it you eat it reverse flip it over why seriously topside down the way it hits your tongue is better just saying i like to say that when i think listeners may recall i've said that like three times you're gonna get a text from me at some point like the following months being like oh my god i did it your favorite cookbook of all time just all of dory greenspan's cookbooks oh just the canon of dory it's just she's so reliable but like there's no other person where I'm like, I'm going to make this and it's going to be perfect and everyone's going to think I'm amazing even though it was Dory.

1:06:12Have you been to her apartment in Paris? I've never been to her apartment in Paris. Okay. I was going to say like, okay, I feel like a lot of people have been to her apartment in Paris. I like to pretend like she's my best friend but she's not in reality but I just, I love, I mean, I adore her as a human but I just think her recipes are amazing. No, she's really, really great. Your favorite new cookbook discovery? Well, I mean, Portico. I mean, I think we were just saying. We were talking about portugals. Let's move on to one other one that comes to mind that you're just like, wow, this is. Yeah, that was great.

1:06:39I mean, I love Shabbat by Adina Sussman. Yeah. I mean, again, needs no introduction, but I just, I've been cooking from that a lot. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food. I mean, Rome. Yeah. I'm a basic bitch that way. It's okay. I mean, it's a great city and kind of underrated in some ways for the food, obviously. Yeah. I mean, the food, it's just, you can get, it's, yeah, it's perfect. A cuisine you would like to learn more about. I would really love to learn more about Korean food. I'm not just saying that for you, but I was supposed to, my husband and I were supposed to go to Korea for our 10th wedding anniversary.

1:07:11Oh, man. And then we didn't end up going because even though the COVID was sort of over in 2021 or whatever it was, that Korean government, basically, if you landed and you had COVID, they would isolate you for two full weeks. So we were like, well, we have three kids. We can't do that. We can't be isolated for two weeks. Smart move. I'll tell you a little story. I went in 2021 in the fall and we had to get a government waiver. And so when we landed, we were required to take a special taxi. So they like funneled us out to special line taxis. And we literally went to this like very intense clinic for a test.

1:07:46And you better believe it. If we were testing positive, they were putting us away for two weeks. And it was not the best way to enter a country. Correct. So we made the right move. Yeah, so we made the right move. But I'm still just dying. I mean, I think in New York, Korean food, I mean, obviously, as you have seen over a year, I mean, it's just exploded here. And I adore it on every level. And I've just I would love to see it in person. So that's really that's my next dream trip and cuisine. I hope you can make it there. I'm going in a couple weeks and we got a little book, Korea World, coming out.

1:08:17I was going to say, you got some stuff coming. Got it. Got more Korean things coming. Just got the copy today. I just saw it for the first time. Oh, it's like such a special day. Yeah, it was interesting. It's amazing. I'm so happy with it. But last one, your favorite sandwich. I just like, again, basic. I love like caprese with prosciutto on it like that. Or like just butter and anchovies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just all the sort of basic Italian sandwiches. What's the bread choice? I mean, I love a rustic bread. I mean, my favorite bread is the Mish from She Wolf Bakery. And I mean, you know, what a place.

1:08:49But it's just like so good. So I yeah, that it's like I have that Mish and then. Yeah. Get like the Riverine Ranch, buffalo mozzarella, a good summer tomato and some prosciutto. And like I'm in heaven. That's it. It's like August for you. Yeah. I'm just dreaming of summer. Yeah. Why can it be summer? Allie Rosen, that was really fun. Thanks for having me.

1:09:12This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.