363: New York Magazine Restaurant Reviewing with Matthew Schneier

27:32Is the restaurant kind of strategy there working? That's a great question that you would have to ask someone who is more sort of in the reporter trenches than I am. I mean, is it working from a business standpoint is one question. Is it working from a food standpoint? Yeah, the latter. The number two is what I totally meant to. That is exactly the right way to respond to that question. I honestly, because there is so much for me to catch up on and the preference is for reviews of places that are more newly opened, I've eaten at a number of the Roxanne restaurants. I haven't eaten every one. I haven't gone to them enough to say, you know, these are great or not great.

28:12In my limited and so anecdotal experience, I think sort of mileage varies based on which one. I think the bigger question, and it's a really interesting question, I think it's really the right question for right now, it comes up all the time, is what do we think about this sort of mutually beneficial relationship between kind of real estate developers and restaurateurs? You know, it came up again in the 425 review that I published today. You know, 425 is in this new highly developed skyscraper. East 56th, 57th, around there, right? In fact, and you will know exactly where it is because it is at 425 Park Avenue.

28:53The name of the restaurant itself is an advertisement of the leasing office. And that's not an accident. How do we feel about that? There's always been a relationship between restaurateurs and their landlords. Great question. I mean, I'll interject and say like the utter failure of Hudson Yards and the restaurants there. Of course, the pandemic had a lot to do with it. So it's not fully grading. It's a little bit grading on the curve. but I think that there's definitely were some really interesting to disgraceful concepts opened in Hudson Yards. I think Rock Center seems to be working. Like, I wasn't trying to lead you in any direction.

29:26But personally, I think the way that it's brought excitement to Midtown, and I think the concepts there are diverse from a wide swath of New York City restaurants. And I see tourists really being excited by places like, you know, Naro gets mentioned quite a bit. But you've got Jupiter has definitely gotten better over time. You know, there's definitely concepts. Eli Sussman's in the food hall. There's some Mesa's is crushing. Of course, J.J. Johnson's rice restaurant is tremendous and a beard semifinal. So anyways, that's my take. I need to do a fuller kind of tour of the whole scene. You know, my experience lately has mostly been limited to the fact that my dentist is around the corner.

30:10And so I always. A great reason to visit Midtown. I do the thing that you absolutely shouldn't do, which is I get my teeth cleaned and then I end up at Lodi getting some$9 pastry to reward myself and absolutely undo all of the progress I've just made. But yes, I mean, I think I'm really interested in the relationship between real estate and restaurants. And there is a diversity of food in Rock Center, but there also is a real bias toward the expensive and kind of the shiny. And, you know, should that be the case? You know, in Rock Center, maybe, but in the city, full stop, I think absolutely not.

30:46And so, you know, you do accidentally or inevitably import a lot of bigger, thornier questions once you start talking about this stuff. And I hope to continue talking about it. Related, I get my annual physical and my cholesterol check on 32nd Street in Korea, and I always go and get seoul and tong, like the most cholesterol-laden dish in the Korean canon. And, you know, you got to do it after a medical exam. That's what the statin's working for. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. I'm on 10MG. I don't know who you are, but, you know, we're not going to get personal. All right. Let's talk about Keith McNally.

31:16We're going to be entering the Keith McNally press blitz with his memoir coming out. He's very active on socials, which, you know, mileage may vary on what you think about Keith with those socials. It's highly entertaining to some. Okay. So, Keith, you've written this profile about Keith. And really, let me ask you about Keith. Keith, do you feel, Keith McNally, we should be talking about him, or should we just stop now and move on? I think it depends if we have something new to say. I think at the time that I wrote that profile, he had more recently emerged as a kind of lovable or not so lovable, as you say, depending on your point of view, Instagram troll.

31:57And I think it was notable. You know, I wasn't aware of other restaurateurs who had sort of taken it upon themselves to leap into the fray in the way that he did. And, you know, there were reasons for that. I think, you know, I do genuinely think that some of those reasons are medical. That is sort of Keith and many of the people in Keith's orbit kind of said, you know, I had a massive stroke. And, you know, I think that operates in two ways. I think one of the ways it operates is that you realize life is short and maybe you say, fuck it, I'm going to say what I want to say. And the other way is maybe it affects the part of your brain that, you know, uses you a little bit.

32:40You know, I think at a certain point that starts to fade as a good reason. I think, you know, at a certain point, as happens to many people, you know, who get very involved in social media primarily, but also just kind of like public opining in general, you know, you get addicted to the attention and it becomes a feedback loop, whether that's a sort of virtuous cycle or a non-virtuous cycle. Again, it's up to the listener. I have a lot of respect for Keith because I think he is still going at a time where it would be quite easy for him to stop. Love that response. I think we should keep talking about him with that context.

33:18It's really well said, Matthew. And growing up in lower Manhattan, you obviously have to recognize Odeon, Pastis. You even have to recognize Schiller's. I mean, the Keith Pignalli restaurant is part of our culture. And Balthazar, are you going to revisit Balthazar as a critic of New York Magazine? I don't know if I will revisit it as the critic. I will tell you that I revisited it about three weeks ago as someone who was leaving – what were we leaving? I think we were leaving a play in the theater district or something, and it was 11 o 'clock and we were starving. And, you know, there aren't as many options as, you know, New York would have you believe there are.

33:55And we went down there and we talked our way into a table and we had, I would say, you know, a very good meal. You know, are there better French meals in New York to be had? I think absolutely there are. I said so quite openly in that McNally piece before I was even a critic. But sometimes you want the ambiance and the theater of it and the vibe and the practicality and the ease and the feeling that somehow he is able to still conjure when you're there. You write about the La Le and Lue restaurants, and you make this great turn of phrase. It's just masterful. It's from French to French chat, which I think everyone who knows New York kind of gets the sense of this shift.

34:37And I want to ask you, critically, should we be caring about these old guard French restaurants? It feels like the body is maybe warm and cooling. but on the flip side you are of deep respect for New York as an institution uh or as a place with institutions and you write for New York magazine so it's part of your brand to write about these places how do you negotiate the dying Lulu and La Restaurant which I think is great I don't feel that it's my role necessarily to advocate for you know either putting the nail in the coffin or reviving the corpse. I'm a bystander, a hungry bystander, but a bystander really all the same.

35:19What I think is important not to forget is the restaurant is a real important part of New York cultural history. I think these restaurants, all restaurants really, are really about what we aspire to and how we want to define ourselves and how we wish we were as much as how we actually are. And I think unlike other forms of culture, you know, like movies that can play in repertory or plays that can be revived, restaurants are ephemeral. You know, you can bring back a restaurant, but it's not really ever going to be the same twice. And so I think restaurants are very prone to being forgotten. I think there are, you know, many, many people walking around the city who don't know anything about Lutèce or La Caravelle or La Côte Basque or, you know, any of these places.

36:07I don't think that these places deserve to live forever. I think times change and tastes change. And I also think it's important to recognize when these places import their own biases and prejudices and crowd out other places and give the idea intentionally or not that this is the only way to eat well, or this is the only definition of fine dining. I think it's never been clearer that that's not the case. That said, for a certain type of person of the mid-century who was a power player in New York, who was important to the life of the city and the business of the city, these places were important.

36:47And so what I don't want is for them to kind of go gently into the good night. I think being aware of them and knowing about them and seeing how that history kind of changes and mutates as we all evolve is fascinating. And so that's sort of my interest in remembering them. It's sort of thinking about where we've been and where we're now and where we're going less than I think, you know, it's a crime against humanity that Lutece is closed. Yeah, you never write with that hyperbole. And I think the death by a thousand cuts for some of these restaurants makes for good copy. but I really respect you zooming out and not taking the bait for my kind of weird question.

37:27I don't think so at all. And really, you had a real reporter's response, which I think is great. And these are personally not as a reporter, just as somebody with the microphone in his face. I think that you should definitely be writing about the death of some of these restaurants because they are important to the fabric, but also writing about the death of restaurants like 6th Street in Little India. Like there's restaurants dying downtown in the East Village more than in Midtown. So I just hope that you and Chris and Tammy and the team looks at some of the dying restaurants and gives them the credit they deserve and the honor.

38:03You know, I am sure I'm not supposed to say too much about this, but we are looking at a project that I think will do some of that and hope to do some of that. And that's one of the things that I'm most excited about for this year. Wonderful. Let's pivot to pizza. We just finished our pizza week here on Taste, and I feel you have a lot of thoughts. You had a great double review. The industry, the new West Village spot and Bar Birba. I thought that it was a really cool double review. And I guess my question generally is, is pizza in New York as good as it's ever been? Are you seeing any trends?

38:36Are you feeling like there's something happening here? Or is it on the flip, always been good, and it's kind of just the way it is? Boy, this is like a dangerous question. This is where people get killed, right? Yeah. I think, and I have not done the real kind of New York pizza survey I would like to yet, I think pizza is not as much a focus as it has been during certain other parts of my life in New York. I was sort of recently returned to New York from college when Franny's, the original Franny's, was getting off the ground. And it was like, you couldn't have a conversation that wasn't somehow about pizza.

39:18And, you know, or when, I mean, Lucali is still impossible to get into, but there was a moment where, you know, Jay-Z and Beyonce went to Lucali and it was all anybody wanted to talk about. And I think there is absolutely tremendous pizza in New York. I think New York is a great pizza city. I think the other cities that want to fight New York for that, you know, honor are - Los Angeles. I mean, it's just insane in my estimation, but But there I go. I think there is really good pizza in New York. I don't find that at the moment New York, I don't think that that is the sort of top of mind conversation.

39:51That said, you know, people are still opening pizza places. You know, Landistry is, you know, I had gone to Landistry for lunch, but I walked by, I happened to be walking by at like eight or nine o 'clock in the evening the other night, and there was a line all the way down the block. And there's great pizza from places that are still chugging along. For my money, there's not better pizza in New York than F &F. Oh, that's the number one I've gone on record. Well, L &B is my number one deep in Brooklyn, but my number one nouveau is F &F. There's no better pizza. Thank you. I wish I had a more controversial take than that.

40:25I mean, F &F is definitely being forgotten. I'm just saying. People in Carroll Gardens know, and I used to live in that neighborhood, but it's not on the radar of anyone. Is that right? Because whenever I try to get takeout, they're like, absolutely not a UK. Interesting. I haven't lived in there in a while. I mean, I haven't been back in six months, but I feel there's like definitely industry and there's other places that get a little more press. But, you know, that's why pizza is so great. So let me flip it back to you then. If pizza is maybe a little less interesting is what I'm reading. You're not saying that, but I'm getting a sense.

40:57What is interesting? Is there a category, Matthew, that you're really excited about? You have like a notes memo with like a list of restaurants in that category that excites you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the thing that's nice about New York and also challenging about New York, especially for someone in my role, is that it's usually six things at once. You know, it is beyond clear that we're in a sort of Korean food revolution moment. There is so much good Korean food of so many different stripes and sub-regionalities. And I mean, I don't need to tell you. I know who I'm talking to here. But, you know, and Alex Young has done a terrific job cataloging a lot of that.

41:39You know, I haven't really written that much about Korean food yet. Maybe not. No, I did a little thing, but not much about Korean food, in part because, you know, he just lapped me to so many of these places that it opened before I took the job. Alex made Chö-Dung-Gol like kind of I was just there this week and I got there at five for a meeting and it was filled by 510. Filled by 510. And deservedly so. I mean, there's, you know, the various groups, I mean, Hand Hospitality, but all these people, I mean, are doing phenomenal work and really, you know, creating, I don't want to say creating, really introducing people, you know, to a cuisine that I think has always certainly existed in, you know, on 32nd Street.

42:20And, you know, if you want to go deeper, Murray Hill in Queens, there's like unbelievable Korean, but many people in my kind of milieu and my cohort weren't necessarily going to that. And I think that that's really changed. I think, you know, there's a lot happening in Indian. I think there's a lot happening in Filipino. You know, there's a lot happening in, you know, sort of all the various Asian cuisines that, you know, have always been here and have always had, you know, kind of avatars and exemplars, but not necessarily been quite so top of mind as they are right now. And I think that's fascinating.

42:57I think that's great. And and and Thai, my God, you know, I had a long conversation with a chef about Thai cuisine. And just as briefly, I feel with immigration being such a with Thai immigration being being a big part of New York now, like the immigration is is is massive from Thai diaspora ending up in New York. It's right exactly on the money. The Thai revolution is is is arriving. You know, it takes no genius to say this, but, you know, what I think is Max Widowa, I may be mispronouncing that, I apologize, is doing it at Bangkok Supper Club is unbelievable. I mean, the food is so good and so specific.

43:39And, you know, I haven't actually reviewed it yet because we've covered it in a number of other ways. And at this point, nobody needs me to tell that it's good because everybody knows. But it is. So let me ask you about the art direction of the pages, at least on the online versions. I feel there's been a real change with these animations, with these GIFs, with these short, I would call them films, but they're not really films. Was that your doing? Because I feel like that's a really nice change for your reviews. The UX, to use a weird term, is beautiful for New York Mag right now. As much as I would like to, I can take absolutely zero credit for that.

44:11That is, I believe that that was the brainchild of David Haskell, our editor-in-chief. Certainly, you know, with Alan Sinsma, the food editor. They're done every week by Hugo Yu, who's sort of our in-house photographer. You may have a more proper title than that, I don't know. But he is terrific. And, you know, sometimes we accidentally overlap and, you know, kind of can't acknowledge each other. You put a little bit of a blur face on your... I, you know, I said to Alan, actually, this one, you can't see me, but you can see someone that I was dining with. I said, you know, just be careful if the photo selection changes.

44:46I really love it. I think it's a real it's a trademark. New York Magazine is just brilliant with with trademarking and and really following through with the bit for a long time. So it's good. I think it looks really great. I'm so pleased. I mean, you know, I know that I'm coming across as so in the tank for New York Magazine. But one of the many things I love about the magazine is that there is no facet of the work that they don't get super involved in. It's not, you know, this is a written piece and so the photo can be whatever or this is a photo driven essay. So, you know, the caption doesn't matter whether it's, you know, 50 words or 500 words or a 5000 word feature.

45:23Like there is just no part of it that's sort of allowed to to kind of drag along. You read the magazine and every every page is considered. It's real. It's great work. I'm in the tank as well for New York Bank on the record. All right, we're going to do two quick sections. You're going to, this is going to be fun. I know it's difficult, but we're going to just do it. We'll call these like a New York quick takes. Best slice right now. I think I've already tipped my hand, but F and F. I will say that I really enjoyed this pizza that Tammy discovered, Farina, which sort of weirdly wedged under the BQE.

45:57Not exactly a slice joint, but I think they're doing great stuff too. But, you know, the slice for me has got to be F &F at this point. Your favorite Midtown lunch spot right now? Probably, you know, somewhere in the Sichuan corridor of 39th Street. There are a million places, some of which I go to regularly, some of which I don't. But all are kind of great. I don't get there a ton anymore. When I was at the Times, I was much closer to that part of the world. But there's one I wrote about recently that I think is out called Peppercorn Station. Yes, I know that. Oh, that's ill. Good call. That was a nice one.

46:34And, you know, that's one of the places where like the, you know, the quality of the food is inversely proportional to the, you know, kind of height of the ceiling and the, you know, terribleness of the lighting. And I don't care. You know, I'm just there shoving my face with, you know, crab guts and tofu. Best ice cream. It's February, but we can always talk about ice cream. Ice cream is one of the things that I always have in my house. I love it. I am. I'm an ice cream guy. I make it sometimes, not all that much. But what is the best ice cream? The truth is I'm such a slut for ice cream that it sort of almost doesn't matter.

47:10I still love a Haagen-Dazs. I live right by the original Haagen-Dazs scoop shop from the 70s. I think Blue Marble does great, great, great basics. You know, it's a little sort of like dorm room stonery, but I will still eat some of the Ample Hills flavors. you know anytime I see a new something I just read the Barbara Streisand memoir which is actually sort of like quietly a real food book oh my god dude we we we messaged about that it's like 47 hours it's 47 hours and I think 46 of them are about food on the audio on the audio book we're referring to and we that's one of our books here I honestly let's just do a whole episode about that food being a food book well because it really isn't her ice cream choice is definitely a thread well she she loves these mcconnell's uh santa barbara and and there you now can get them very easily nationally there are a lot of supermarkets uh and so i've been saying that i need to do like a real mcconnell's deep dive i never knew i would know so much about the film i i literally the the film yentl is now part of my body enjoy i i it's a i love yentl it's great film okay a few more let's talk about coffee i feel like that is a micro theme here are you into Yeah, you're a real coffee guy, I think, right?

48:25I like writing about it tremendously. I enjoy all elements about it. Like as an editor and writer, I enjoy it more actually than I do drinking it, to be honest. So I will sort of preface this by saying that I need to have coffee every day. But in some ways, I'm very, you know, prissy about it. And in some ways, I'm not. I actually prefer drip coffee. I'm not much of an espresso person. And I certainly will have an espresso or a cappuccino or whatever. But I really run on drip coffee that we make at home. That's the sort of unpretentious part. The pretentious part is that I have tried, certainly not every coffee, but I've tried a number of the fancy coffees.

49:09And the one that I really return to is Parler. I just think they make an unbelievable coffee. I first had it at the now departed Tilda, my old neighbor of Clinton Hill. The guy, Danny Nussbaum, who ran coffee there since passed away, was a real parlor partisan. And they're over there. They're right by the Navy Yard. And so we get the prospect blend in five-pound bags. And it used to take us three months to go through them. And now it takes us two months to go through them. And I think we're cresting towards six weeks. and at which point I'm going to get sort of nervous for my... I love it. Your journey is...

49:48I feel it's begun. We're on the way, but that's the one. You know, for a minute, I sort of dabbled with, say, coffee from Bushwick, which I think is very good. And I live right by Drip. It's in my subway station. That's my guy, Nigel Price. They have an amazing selection. It's just... Honestly, it's like hard to afford. I mean, that coffee is expensive. Yeah, well, you know what? Good coffee costs a lot. That's right. Relatively speaking, but it costs little. It's an affordable luxury. Listen, I know you've heard me say that a million times, but right? It's absolutely true. And I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth because I am the person who is now arguing for more and more expensive wine.

50:27Hey, well, I think they're both go hand in hand. All right. On This is Taste, we ask us about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, Matthew, here's a little rapid fire, fast, furious taste check. Are you ready? Okay. The best fruit. The best fruit. I think cherry. The worst vegetable. I honestly don't care about beets. Yeah, I agree. Hard to agree. The best dessert? The dessert that I will not pass up on a menu is anything with chestnut. So there's a peri-breaths peri that does chestnut in there? No. The Mont Blanc, I think. Mont Blanc. Which is sort of having a moment. That's the guy.

50:59They keep getting offered to me. And honestly, I take them every time. I actually feel like now that I've announced it publicly, I probably have to stop. I know you're going to be in trouble. I think her name is Honda's an amazing Mont Blanc. Yeah. I just, I don't know what it is. It's one of those things that gives me sort of like warm memories of childhood. My father used to roast chestnuts in the oven, or maybe it was my mother. Somebody, you and my family used to roast chestnuts in the oven for Christmas. And I love that stuff. Is that the best dessert? I sort of think the best dessert is probably ice cream.

51:25But I've got to give a shout out to my friend, the chestnut. A couple more. Your favorite city outside of America to visit for food? I would love to go back to Tokyo. I spent a weekend in Tokyo, which is a crazy amount of time to spend in Tokyo if you're coming from New York and would love to go back there. I learned a lot of what I know about eating from being in Paris for fashion, Milan in Paris, but for food even more Paris. And it's an unbelievable food city. Outside of New York, I mean, they're great. I've got to get back to the Bay Area. In America, I've got to get back to LA. There's a million places.

52:02But unfortunately, New York Magazine does not seem that inclined to send me to all of them. They used to do that. Back in like the gravy days, they would probably send their critics out. They used to do that at the Times too. Wells used to review those other cities. I remember I was reading, I think it was Sifton wrote a piece about when he got the job and he was switching over from like a culture editing gig or something. And they basically sent him on kind of like a rum spring abroad to just like eat for six weeks. I thought like, okay, like, how do I manage that? That's like going to space camp for all food writers.

52:34I mean, geez, getting to go abroad to study well exactly well you know if anybody wants to sponsor me you know yeah guys all right last one your favorite sandwich god i you know it's like every sandwich is too good the sandwich is such a perfect form um i mean there's nothing like a grilled cheese there's nothing like a blt uh there is nothing like a good egg sandwich uh pb and j I will say the sandwich that most surprised me by, you know, sort of singing to me with its siren song. I was at S &P not too long ago, and they do a cream cheese and olive sandwich. I knew you were going to say that.

53:17Oh, my. I almost like put the words in your mouth. I've had that sandwich every time I've been there. I've been there four times. I'm a little embarrassed that like I don't have, you know, I'm sure I should say like Barb Beard does like a mortadela and pistachio sandwich. That's unbelievable. And like, of course, you know, and I should be saying, you know, this artisanal liverwurst sandwich and whatever and muffaletta and all of that is true. But I don't know, you know, when you when you get down to real superlatives, I think, you know, it all kind of comes back to what was in your lunchbox. And for me, it was, you know, PB &J, a perfect turkey sandwich.

53:48Yeah, and cream cheese on bread is so underrated. They do it overseas. They don't do it much in the States. Which is crazy because cream cheese to me is such an American. Yeah, I know. form the bagel has like kind of stolen the stolen it well you know my hottest take is that i prefer bialy to a bagel that is such a take wow so you're gonna have mario carbona after you and then you're gonna have like all of new york bagel makers i love it matthew this is gonna be good and i don't even have mimi's shirt and still with us to defend i know mimi is the best on instagram or twitter to defend matthew what a pleasure talking to you i hope you come back thank you so much for joining this taste thank you so much for having me

54:35eliza we're here we're smiling because when you smile the listener actually can feel it the energy is there right we're smiling we have to come up with our like vocal smiling version vocal smiling it's a little late in the afternoon we've both done some sessions we're kind of dragging but you know what listener we're doing this for you we have three things What's your first thing? My first thing, well, all three of my things are related to Los Angeles because I just went home this past weekend to see my family. So my first thing is a dish that I had at Spoon and Pork, a Filipino place at their Westside location on Sautel.

55:08They call it patita. Pata is traditionally a deep fried pork trotter. And patita at Spoon and Pork is a pork shank that's been braised for 15 hours. Then they air dry it for a day and then they deep fry it. That sounds amazing. I know my parents ordered it, which my parents do not cook pork in the home, would not really order this much pork going out. So I was kind of surprised that it's what they wanted, but they had had it before and they said it was so good that they needed me to try it. And it really was quite special. Oh my God. I mean, let me, I have questions about this. So when you have a deep fried pork trotter, is there like a condiment or sauce that kind of like, does that like cut through, cut through the fat thing?

55:43You know, the acid cut through the fat? Yeah, definitely. It's kind of glazed in the sweet chili sauce that has, I think it's dried garlic kind of all throughout it. So So you have this kind of like crispy, lacquered pork skin and then just really beautiful kind of tender, shreddy pork beneath it. I love it. You also said tendies. I said tendies. You said tendies. I meant to say tender and shreddy and I said tendy and I hope no one would notice. Speaking of faux pas and speaking of Filipino food, I was upstairs talking to a gentleman who works in our IT department about a pop-up window that won't go away.

56:13Boring story. But when I referred to the suite of products that help us design taste, I referred to it as the adobo suite of products. And I felt extremely like my mom because we do not use adobo products here at Penguin Random House. So if the adobo products are not your first thing, what is your first thing? My first thing is also randomly LA related. We never share this together. This is the first time you're hearing it. There's a great cookbook coming out from the Kismet crew, Sarah Kramer and Sarah High Mason. Do you know this restaurant? Have you been being an LA native? I have been to Kismet, and I think Natalie Portman was sitting directly behind me when I went to Kismet.

56:52Whoa, whoa, whoa. So that was— That's a good spotting. Yeah, you know, it felt appropriate. I like Kismet, and I like they have the separate rotisserie place. Oh, yeah, of course. That's Kismet Rotisserie. And it's Sarah Hymanson. I don't know why I botched the name, but we're going to keep that in the edit. You know what? This book is—we're putting it out, Clarkson Potter, and I've gotten a chance to take a look at the PDF. I haven't held the actual book. but anyone who knows kismet knows this is a really interesting concept it is blending this middle eastern mediterranean cuisine with california and they kind of put their stamp on it with dishes like salty sweet persimmon salad and a harissa party wing they've got spice roasted tomatoes with grapefruit nice i like that and really i think there's probably going to be a pretty banging chicken recipe given that they do kismet chicken it's very veg centric um design is nice.

57:44This is a book that I'm really excited to kind of cook from this spring. Yeah, me too. You know, I'm a fan of what I call an opulent salad, and I think that's what Kismet does really well. So it'll be fun, especially for springtime. Completely. What's your second one? My second thing is that I went to an early dinner in K-Town when I was in LA. I went to Hungary, Kolgukzu. Have you been there before? I have not had Kolgukzu there, but I love Kolgukzu. It's one of my favorite soupy dishes. Yeah, and Hungary is kind of like a longtime place in K-Town. I went at like 5 p.m. I'm very early because my friend and I were hungry.

58:15And by the time we left at 6.30 on a weekend, there was already quite a long line. But my friend Sally pointed out to me that they really have a down to a science. They take your order when you're in line so that by the time you sit down, the food is ready for you. So they're clearly like high volume. This is one of the places to be. I think that what I had that was my favorite thing was a clam kogukzu, which was hand cut noodle soup. It had squash in it and lots of clams and this kind of like light anchovy broth. And it was really good. It's a great broth. Koguk-su usually leans a little more towards the seafood side of things.

58:47When you have clams in it, it's very seafood forward, but you can have chicken in it sometimes too. But obviously the hand cut noodles or the dough flakes that you can make, we have a great recipe in our first book, Koreatown for Koguk-su, I love it. It's actually really easy to make too, pretty simple. Yeah, I would imagine. And I really wanna go back to this place. What's your next thing? Hilariously, another segue, we again did not share these, but I just got back from Korea and you'll hear my recap later this week as a B-segment about all the places I visited but I wanted to call out one place in particular while I was in Seoul.

59:23I got to go to Mom's Touch Lab. Mom's Touch. Have you heard about Mom's Touch? Probably not in the way that you're talking about it. It's a wonderful name. It really is memorable. Mom's Touch is truly the best fried chicken in Korea that I've sampled. Wow. It is. I'll say this. Here's my visit to Mom's Touch Lab. The chicken arrived in a bowl, in like a real bowl, not paper or plastic. It's a real bowl. Cartoonishly crunchy, like scientifically engineered to be crunchy. I loved it so much. I got to say the flavor wasn't like fully there, but like just the crunch factor was something I never really had in my life with fried chicken.

1:00:06It was really excellent. Do you have any theories as to why it's so good? Are they frying in a certain kind of oil or dredging in something special? It's definitely the way of the dredge and the way the craggly crust works. I believe they're using some kind of rice flour or some kind of like, not to use chemical, but like some kind of agent that makes it kind of craggle up in a unique way. I'm going to be exploring this in future writing for sure. I have to say the chicken sandwich wasn't bad either. The bun kind of disintegrated, but often in Korea, the baking is not awesome in the sandwich bun variety.

1:00:43There's incredible baking in terms of amazing pastries as you'll hear on Wednesday. But really, I love the way this chicken crunches. Oh, it sounds great. They also do a burger and it was like hot trash. And I certainly would not recommend eating a burger at Mom's Touch. But Mom's Touch Lab, check it out. What's your last one? My last one is my last LA restaurant, which is a Taiwanese place called Little Fatty that I went to in kind of Mar Vista area. They are attached to the bar accomplice. And so they do really nice cocktail program. But honestly, I think the dessert was my favorite part. Well, we had a lot of good things.

1:01:18They do like chow fun noodles kind of rolled up and sliced with XO sauce. They do an orange chicken. That's probably the orangiest orange chicken I've ever had. Is that a good thing? Yeah, I really liked it. But it had definitely like orange zest finished on it and just a lot of like real orange flavor, which is kind of fun. But the best thing was that they did homemade sesame balls warm with taro ice cream for dessert. Oh, I love a taro ice cream. I love that. So it's called – what's the name again? Little Fatty. Little Fatty. I mean, so I love that this is a casual place, like show up Little Fatty.

1:01:49Yeah, they have a place called Fatty Mart around the corner, which is actually more casual. And they do really cool pizzas. They were doing like a chicken mole pizza when I was there. They have a big refrigerated case, both with things you can buy and things that they're making. So that's kind of even the more casual one. And then Little Fatty is kind of like more of a sit down spot. It's the restaurant. Was there a restaurant that you wanted to go to that you didn't get a chance to that you're like, man, I wish I would have gone? It's a very short visit. I know. Yeah, I feel always with L.A. there are so many places that I want to go to.

1:02:16I've been wanting to go to this place, Chainsaw, in Echo Park for a while, mostly for the pastries. They do kind of these really delicious looking pies and milkshakes and things like that out of what I think is a converted garage. It was like a pandemic pop-up that now has a more permanent place. So that was what I was hoping to do this time. But, you know, it's always nice to just like eat a lot of citrus. I'm happy. Yeah. Have you been to a good used book yet? No. But this place is like a used book pop-up store that is on the east side. No, I love that title though. It's cool. It's really, really cool.

1:02:45I've written about it for Why Is This Interesting, that newsletter. And I'll link to the show notes. It's a really, it's a favorite of mine. I don't know why it just popped in my head. No, I like it. I'll check it out. What's your last thing? My last one is that I want to just remind our audience. Me and Marissa Mullen are heading to Normandy in late August. The trip is selling quickly, and I wanted to give a heads up to our listeners that you should definitely check out the link in the show notes. We're heading to Normandy in August. It's a cheese tour, Eliza. Marissa Mullen, author of That Cheese Plate Will Save Your Life, a real cheese expert, and we've kind of crafted this amazing trip, and I just want to share it with the audience.

1:03:23I mean it sounds like great I feel like cheese in Normandy in the summer what's not like what's not to love Normandy's great in the summer because it's just not hot like it's like a little cooler than the cities and and really this is like the end of summer um we're going to Mount St. Michel we're going to definitely pick some apples and like it's like the first pick late August apples too which is my favorite time to have apples but we're closing the closing this in a few months probably but definitely check it out I can't wait to to visit Normandy with Marissa Mullen Sounds great. Thanks for sharing your three things.

1:03:55Anytime.

1:04:01This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.