367: Hailee Catalano & Chuck Cruz

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0:31I get why people sometimes wouldn't know like if they've never like worked in restaurants or whatnot but like a big thing is like we try not to be like I used to work in restaurants and now I do this because it's just like sometimes feels like gimmicky we're not trying to like tell us that side of the story just we're trying to show our cooking this is Taste I'm your host Eliza Barbinell

0:59Haley Catalano and Chuck Cruz are two of my favorite follows. The two chefs, who met in culinary school and cooked at Chicago restaurants like Dos Urban Cantina and Cellar Door Provisions, are now sharing recipes on TikTok and Instagram. Their inventive recipes and laid-back vibe has won many, many fans, and it's so fun to have them both in the studio to talk about their shifting careers.

1:30Haley and Chuck, this is Taste. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you. I'm so excited. I'm so happy to see you guys in real life and not on my iPhone screen, which is how I've previously interacted with you. Do you guys have a lot of people coming up to you, especially when you're in the city, that recognize you these days? Yeah, a couple of people. I think us together, people recognize together more so. We're just separate. yeah by myself I don't really get recognized as much yeah I think it's because we're together yeah really I feel like Chuck people will be coming up to you and being like oh what are you listening to like those TikTok videos oh yeah that would be a good one actually Chuck's being humble people come up to Chuck by himself I feel like when you guys are together like maybe there's even an element of surprise because I think like my Instagram algorithm I want to get into how all this happened but I started seeing videos from both of you separately at the same time and then And one day I realized that you two were together and it was a very fun moment for me.

2:26Yeah, that's so funny. We get that a lot, actually. When did you start seeing it? I'm just so curious. Like, when did you start seeing us together? Yeah, we have questions forever right now. I feel like it was maybe last fall that I started seeing videos. And I think I actually saw one of Chuck's videos first because one of my friends who's a DJ who loves to cook sent it to me and was like, check out this guy's videos. I'm thinking of like a De La Soul instrumental on that video. And I always like listen to De La Soul instrumental. So that was when I was like, oh, hell yeah. Oh, nice. I love that.

3:00Yeah, we didn't start at the same time doing videos. Yeah, you did first, right? Yeah, I started way back in, well, way back. Not actually that long ago, like 2020, but the end of 2020. But I wasn't doing like cooking videos. I was like so nervous to like show my cooking and like show myself. I was just doing like coffee videos with just my hands. Yeah, which is very odd, maybe. But yeah, because I wanted to start posting to TikTok and stuff because, you know, you see all these cool videos and everything. And then I was just like, oh, but I can't post like cooking because somebody is going to see me like that I used to work with or something.

3:33They're gonna be like cringe, which is like so silly when I think about it now. So yeah, for probably a whole year, right? Right, Chuck? I was doing just coffee videos. Oh, yeah. Probably longer. Yeah. La Coloma. I worked there for a little bit. Wow. It's wild to me that you both are like professional line cook chefs and you were worried about someone seeing you and cooking when so many people I don't think are thinking at all about whether or not they should be sharing cooking videos. I know. It's the whole thing. I know. Yes, I was. Yeah, maybe even a year and a half. You're right. Just coffee.

4:03So what switched for you? One day I remember I was just like, let me just show my breakfast because like, why am I just showing like coffee? Like I like coffee, but I love like what I do is cooking. So why am I doing this? And I just had a, you know, inspiration to show my sweet potatoes and fried eggs. So that's what I did. And for some reason, like that really took off way more than like the coffee videos and stuff. So yeah, I think the first video I saw of yours was making a beach sandwich. Oh, yeah. I guess that's cooking, but it's kind of like assembly. Yes. But I could tell immediately that both of you were professional cooks from like the gesture you would sprinkle your salt or something like that.

4:39I feel like if you spend time around people who work in kitchens and you work in kitchens, obviously like drinking from a deli container like there's little things like that and I mentioned this to a friend of mine about your videos who's not a food person and they had basically no idea at all they were totally shocked that I was seeing those details and I think they were like oh it makes a lot of sense because the recipes feel really thoughtful but I thought that was kind of interesting that I feel like there are different approaches people take in terms of like spotlighting their expertise and their experience versus like just the food that they actually want to make.

5:09Yeah, I agree. And yeah, like a thing, wouldn't you say, Chuck, like I get why people sometimes wouldn't know, like if they've never like worked in restaurants or whatnot. But like a big thing is like, we try not to be like, I used to work in restaurants and now I do this because it's just like sometimes feels like gimmicky. We're not trying to like tell us that side of the story. Just trying to show our cooking, I guess. Yeah. Like we wanted to come through more for the cooking instead of being like starting a video, like here's what I've learned working in restaurants for five years or like, you know, because then it just feels like it's obviously authentic because we did do that, but it feels a little bit inauthentic just because we don't talk like we don't talk like that.

5:44So we just like hope it comes through, which is nice that it did come through. Yeah, no, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I want to talk about what it's like to, you know, start making videos in a certain moment in food, TikTok and everything. But I guess before that, I'd love to hear a little bit about like how you guys first met and maybe like the early food experiences that you had professionally that you think inform the work that you do now. Yeah. So we met in culinary school in what, 2012? So yeah, 10 years. Oh, over 10 years now. Was there like a certain class that you were in? So we went to Culinary Institute of America and basically you're in the same class for the whole, for the whole time.

6:23And we were in the same class and we're actually like worked together because catalano cruise so yeah i didn't even think about this we sat next to each other yeah wow that's really sweet and then uh yeah i was i was not very good at culinary school to be honest and uh hailey was very good and uh i just like basically just like followed her like a step behind her just doing everything so you're like oh let me just keep doing this for a little bit that looks right i'm gonna do that then we started dating in what 2014 yeah something like that maybe way through culinary school. I did the associates only and that's a two-year program.

7:04So then after that, I moved back to New Jersey and then worked in New York and Haley went to the bachelor's program for a little bit. Yeah, but I dropped out. So you just were like, I don't need to do this anymore? Yeah, because I was just like, actually, it wasn't even the end of the first semester. I was just like, I don't want to like manage a hotel. Like, so I don't really need to do this. I just want to work. Like, I just want to cook. I quit my job in New York and then moved upstate to New York. For just like literally a couple months because I wasn't like, like, because I didn't even finish the first semester.

7:32So we were only living there a couple months and then it was like, we hate this. So we have to move. So then we moved back into my parents' house and we worked in Jersey City for a little bit. And then we went to Chicago. Yeah. And I want to talk about Chicago because I lived in Chicago for a little while and I feel like it's such a fun restaurant scene there and feels different to New York in some ways. And I guess I'm curious, like how you would describe working in the Chicago restaurant scene? Do you feel like it has a certain kind of vibe to it? Yeah, it was very fun. Like, you knew a lot of the cooks in other restaurants and you would just go around and like everyone just kind of knows each other.

8:08And it was very fun. Yeah, it was definitely very fun. Maybe too much fun sometimes. Yeah, I was going to say, Chuck, you were at Lost Lake, weren't you? Yeah, I was the, I guess, bar prep. So were you just drinking tiki drinks all the time? No, I wish. I just like juiced the limes and lemons and oranges and made the banana dolphins. Oh, my God. I feel like they had a lot of shrimp chips at last night also. What's it called? The Thank You Chinese restaurant? Yeah. That's what I was hired for, but then it closed down. Oh, okay. Then they took me back as a bar prep. And then you both were at Cellar Door Provisions.

8:43Yeah. Which to me, I think of as like such a special like jewel box of a restaurant in Chicago. And it seems like everything takes a lot of time to get made there. What was it like working there? Oh, I feel like I learned so much. Like, I think I learned the most just like what kind of style of food I like the most, like just from working there. Like we made our own creme frate, like we made everything. Like it was very cool to learn all those things. Yeah. And it's just, it taught me something. Like I learned how to make bread there. Like so many things that I feel like I would have never learned at other restaurants.

9:16Yeah. Like nothing would go to weight. Like we would dehydrate like garlic skins and then pulverize that into powder and use that like like things that you would. I'm not going to do that at home, but it was so cool to like learn those things and like see those things being done. And yeah, it was just like a very cool place. Like so grateful I worked there because I feel like I learned so much. But Chuck worked there a year ish before I even worked there. Yeah. Yeah. You got me the job. Yeah. That place, yeah, helped develop like kind of like your sense of style of cooking, I feel like for me, for Haley, I think too.

9:49But yeah, it was really fun working there. When I first started working there, we were changing the menu like every two weeks or I think every week actually at one point. It was something like that. Just like turbo mode. Yeah. Just like prep was just crazy all the time because it was like always changing, but very fun. And they had the natural wine, diversity wines next door. Yeah. Very nice. It's a good wine shop. Did you have like a moment that was like the dehydrated garlic peel for you in terms of like, whoa, this is even possible? We did peas. What are they called? Oh, yeah. We juiced peas.

10:19Yeah. Wait, how do you juice peas? It doesn't work. The pea shells. The pea shells. Yeah. The shells. Because we didn't want to throw away the shells. Yeah. So we juiced the pea shells, took the juice, like made it into like a vinaigrette or something. And then we took the spent. Like the pulp. the pulp and then put in a dehydrator and then turned down to like a powder or something wow i like that i just saw a video that's like that was like reminding me of this that some guy showing like how to eat every part of a pomelo and first you like eat the flesh and then you like will soak the pith and make something with it and then the video is like but what about the membrane and then it comes to him like being locked outside of his house because his partner is like there's only so far you can go with the pea shells yeah that actually like happened to us at home I would be like oh yeah I'd be like alright I'm gonna do this with this I'm like Chuck stop it it's just too much just like alright what am I gonna do with this now at home yeah we had a lot of vinegars for a while yeah many vinegars like concord grape that was a good vinegar yeah oh tart vinegar such an inspiration anyway their vinegars are the oro blanco vinegar that tart does oh why do I even have that is my see this is like you do need a lot of different vinegars yeah yes you do the celery vinegar that we get yeah have you ever had their celery vinegar yeah and I actually made a Bloody Mary with it And it was so good.

11:35Oh, that sounds so good. Everybody was like, you're going too far this minute. This is like Bloody Mary is very acidic. But I felt like also when you said pea juice, I immediately thought about making like a cocktail with like gin and pea juice. That sounds great. Right? You might see that. Yeah, take it. No credit required, honestly. No, no credit. Okay. So we're talking about all these like very chefy things. Obviously, developing recipes that you're sharing on social media. I feel like there's kind of only so far you can go with people. I'm curious, like, how do you think about adapting this background into the kinds of recipes that each of you do?

12:09And maybe Haley, you can go first because you've been developing recipes and sharing them online a little bit longer, at least. I just try like to take little techniques that I've learned here and there, like at other restaurants that I've worked at and just kind of incorporate those into maybe a more, I don't like to say the word approachable, but like something that like everybody can do, whether or not you have any cooking, professional cooking, like experience, just like little things that like oh that makes that taste like a lot better than if i didn't do it like for example like i always like soak or rinse my onions like if i'm using raw onions like we used to do that in like two restaurants that we worked at at cellar door we um would uh soak them in dashi like i'm not going to tell people at home soak your raw onions in dashi before you use them because i mean you can't it's just like most people are probably not going to do that that's cool though yeah very cool it's great works great it crisps them and takes a little astringency off, but you can achieve a similar thing with just like ice water.

13:02And yeah, just like things like that, where it's just like small little tweaks, right, Chuck? Like that I think this makes something like a beach sandwich is going to taste so much better with onions like that, rather than onions that are just like shaved and put on there or even just like sliced. So for you, it's like little techniques and things. Chuck, I feel like your videos kind of go for it a little bit more sometimes. Yes. Sometimes, yeah, I try to not do that, but But I guess I just like kind of just sometimes just forget to do that. No, I think I think you do. I think it's like the way you do it is still like people can see how to do it.

13:34Like you still write the recipe. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like trying to find an easier way to just have a show to do it, basically. True. Yeah. Maybe we can talk about like how much I feel like sharing a recipe is an act of service journalism. But the amount of like handholding or maybe not even handholding. So that has a negative connotation. But the amount of information that you're sharing, I feel like varies depending on the person. Like, Haley, you'll do these voiceovers where you're kind of really explaining why you're doing everything. And then Chuck, your videos are like a really fun song.

14:00And then a lot of like fast chopping and things that are going on. And I think if you know how to cook, you can look at both of your videos and understand how to do something. But I think that maybe you guys are thinking about how much information you want to share or maybe the kind of audience you're connecting to a little bit differently. Yeah, you definitely your audience is definitely more like professional. I feel like people that cook a lot or professional cooks, wouldn't you say? Like a lot of restaurant people. and stuff. And where so mine is more like, I think it ranges. I think I have some of that like for like people that do like notice that maybe I have some experience, but I think I have a lot of, but you have it too.

14:32I don't know. You definitely have like a lot more like people cooking recipes for like at home. Yeah. But we always talk about this because it's like, it's hard to write a recipe. Like, cause for us, a lot of cooking is intuitive. Right. And so So like it's sometimes hard to be like, oh, like, you know, like you can add a little more vinegar to this to make it this or that. Like if you like that. But it's like it's hard to write that in a recipe. That's why you test it so many times. It's like, OK, maybe if I did add a quarter teaspoon more vinegar, this will taste way better. Whereas if I'm just cooking this at a restaurant, like I'll just do that.

15:05You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Do you guys ever like have you sat down and talked about like this is how we're going to negotiate who's going to be using the kitchen on which which days? or like we both really want to use this ingredient at the same time? Like, do you have any kind of boundaries in place? Usually we try to do it like every other day. So like I'll like do it on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Or basically Friday is like a toss up whoever wants to do it. Use the kitchen. Yeah. The one kitchen thing. It's a thing. It is a big thing. But for the ingredient, we just kind of like, let's do it.

15:39We just go for it. Because we've done the same ingredient a couple times in the same. Yeah. We help each other with our, like what we're going to make and stuff. So yeah, we really love working together. Like all of our, well, for me, actually every restaurant I've worked in, I think you've also worked there. We've always like worked collaboratively except for my externship. So yeah, like we enjoy like talking about like cooking together and like, yeah, like working together we're used to. Yeah. So it's fun. Yeah. We enjoy coordinating it and whatnot. Yeah. I would hope so. I feel like the double chef couples that I know that exist out there, I feel like there's a really beautiful sense of partnership and not competition, at least in the ones that make it.

16:17I feel like if you were really competitive with your partner, it would be hard to have that be a healthy relationship, maybe. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. It's like, who's going to make a better scrambled egg? I mean, that'd be kind of fun to have that as like a healthy competition. Yeah. But then you have a lot of scrambled eggs to eat at the end of the day. It's true. I know. Yeah. We did do a chopped competition. Oh, yes. You guys did a chopped competition? It wasn't a real chop. Oh, you made it yourself. It was like at her parents' house. What were the ingredients? Who won? I won. Yeah, Chuck won.

16:49Damn it. It was like a frozen tilapia or something. Yeah, it was like my parents just like picked three ingredients. It was like parent kitchen level ingredients. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we were visiting my parents at the time. Maybe like slivered almonds or something. I think almonds were one of them. I think almonds were in it. I think they were. And I think grape jelly and peanut butter and jelly was also in it. Or it was like that goober stuff. Do you know what goober is? No, tell me. Where it's like jelly and peanut butter in the jar with the tilapia. Do you make like a sauce with that?

17:21Yeah, I think so. I forget. That was a long time ago. It's a long time ago. I feel like guest streak is always what people make when they're given like candy or something. Which is a great idea. Yeah, I don't even remember what I made. We also had a competition. Why do we have so many competitions at my parents' house? I don't know. Was this like early pandemic moment maybe? I don't know when I think this is when we were like first started dating. Yeah, really a long time ago. We did a competition on carbonara, but we actually both lost because we both seasoned the pasta water that we were both using.

17:52So it was extremely salty. I just had this happen to me like last week when I was cooking with my girlfriend. We both were salting the soup and not telling each other. And then I tried to fix it with vinegar, which as we've established, I love. But then it was like salty and vinegar. Honestly, it's humbling sometimes. to have something go so wrong. The double salt is the worst. It's the worst. You know, if you have a soup or something and you put too much salt in, you could put a potato in it. Apparently it works. Oh, Haley, now you tell me that. I did have potatoes in the soup, actually. But then maybe it wouldn't be as effective.

18:23Yeah, maybe. So do you think if I had left the potatoes in the soup, they would have drawn in more of the salt and then I could have thrown them out? Maybe if you put like a whole peeled potato in there, like a whole one. Like the master potato to soak everything up? I wonder if that actually works. Yeah, I've actually never done it, but you always see people say to do that. I don't know. OK, I'll try it next time and I'll report back. Please do. So I'm curious. I feel like deciding to start putting out videos on social media in this moment of time comes with some acknowledgments. We've talked a little bit about people recognizing you on the street.

18:55I feel like there's like parasocial relationships and like weird TikTok trends and all these things like that. Like how intentionally did you think about like what it would mean to go from cooking in restaurants to like being more forward facing and putting out videos? Well, when I first started like doing the cooking stuff, it was really just like, you know, like I was saying, like a moment of like, why am I not showing cooking? Like, that's what I love to do. And then for the while, also with my cooking videos, it was only my hands, like the hands and pans type of thing. And then I was like, oh, like, I feel like I should show myself more so that, you know, it feels more personal because cooking is very personal to me.

19:30And so I'm like, I would connect more with that part, like myself, if I was watching something. So then I started doing that. And then, yeah, like as it goes along, you see like, oh yeah, people like recognize me and stuff. And it's very cool. And I really appreciate everybody because it means the world. Like I would never think, like, I really just wanted to work in restaurants like my whole life. That's all we were going to do. So I really, yeah, it's like still wild to me, but I always just try to approach it like, you know, I'm just going to keep doing like what I did when I only had like 300 followers, like I'm just going to post what I want to eat today, like something that's inspiring me today and just really not try to think about like, oh, no one's going to care about this buckwheat cake, but I really care about this buckwheat, you know?

20:11So, and then you realize, oh wait, people do want to see a buckwheat cake and that's pretty cool. Yeah. People care about buckwheat. It's 2024. It's pretty cool. Exactly. Yeah. I'm like, you know, yeah. So I really just try to, personally, I just try to approach it just like, like that and really not think about the numbers of the people although I do really appreciate everybody yeah same way yeah of course you appreciate yeah yeah Chuck does that resonate with you too yeah absolutely yeah it's just uh yeah making things that like you know just uh that like I would want to make and just like trying to stay creative which is just always what you always what I wanted to do in a restaurant so it was like which is limiting probably yeah whereas limiting but now you can just do it like you know free-flowing and it's just uh yeah you can put music around like music i enjoyed listening to growing up and stuff which was put it together and that's like you know it's great yeah i want to ask you about the music part because i love listening to music when i'm cooking i'm curious what you listen to when you're cooking and if it's the same as the songs that you choose to use on social media yeah um it always changes like i don't know it'll go from like odies to like uh country music sometimes i listen to while cooking like lately it's been zach bryan yeah all the time yeah for like the last like two months i've always listened to zach bryan but um yeah then uh like hip-hop and rap and uh it always changes i guess it's a little different from what i uh what i use on my videos yeah what's the mentality there do you would you ever use a trending sound uh no no I think I want like if you look at my videos like way back then but I like I guess like a year ago probably two years ago it feels like longer when we did it back then but everything feels like it was longer yeah yeah the I used some like trending sounds and they never they never like did well for me you know so I was like I'm just gonna like whatever I'm just gonna use whatever I want to whatever music I want to use yeah you know I don't think everybody cares deeply about music but i think for people that do and they see another person who has like a distinct taste that they're choosing to show instead of trying to capitalize on like whatever song is trending on tiktok it's what you're saying about like showing appearing in your videos instead of using hands and pans there's this kind of like personal connection and you're like oh like maybe i'll be at this concert and like i'll see chuck and hayley there that would be crazy you know yeah yeah yeah i really i remember like yeah like when he was picking music i would be like i was like oh i just i use this song there's only like 300 people that use this song and chuck's like oh the one i just use like has like three people that's ever used it which is like so cool like i think that's so cool and i think people really do resonate with like oh my gosh you don't really see this often like i feel like i don't know yeah well yeah it was just the like just things that you yeah the beginning yeah i just use like songs i listened to in like high school like let's do a lot of like i guess underground hip-hop and rap and then like just like classic hip hop just kind of like ventured off into different parts of rap and hip hop yeah i like all of that i feel like another thing that's interesting to me that is probably a big difference when you're cooking in restaurants is that there's obviously a big video production thing that goes into sharing videos in terms of just like setting up your camera and filming and then doing editing and all of that did you already have an interest in doing that kind of documentation or is that something that you both had to kind of learn along the way Yeah, definitely something we're learning along the way.

23:29I think that's like, like we have no idea what we're doing. Like we still use like just a mug for our tripod. I mean, it works, right? Yeah, we have tripods, but I don't know how to like set it up and then like keep on moving it. Yeah. What does the mug say that you use? Can you picture it? It just has H. I think my mom got it for H. Yeah. Okay. It's just the right size for the phone for whatever reason. It holds it in the right place. Yeah. H. and you just like wait until the light is nice out and then shoot from there. Yeah. That's all because we really don't know anything about editing or filming.

24:04Yeah. It's very rough. We bought a light to like try to like do like, you know, make it look like natural lighting, but it's just like we don't even know how to work it. I'm sure we could deep dive into it, but there's just something about it that I just rather like read a cookbook than read about the film stuff. But I appreciate people that are very good at doing like, because I'm like, I see video. I'm like, oh my God, you guys are so good at that. Yeah. I mean, I totally respect that and I think it's cool, but I think that, you know, when you're spending a lot of time on the food itself and not on the other things like that really lets it shine on the same time, you know?

24:35Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. At least we have that. At least we have that. I think. I don't know. How long do you think estimating it takes both of you to make a video starting from like recipe ideation to posting it online? I guess it's hard to say because I'll just like if I have an idea, I'll just write it down and then just like just like think on it for like a couple of days, even weeks. And then like I start like thinking about filming like on a Sunday and then I'll like pull up like one of my ideas that I've thought about. and then I'll like recipe test it and then write the recipe and then film filming only takes like two hours depending on if it's a breeze or not I guess the actual filming part is probably the quickest part yeah it's the the pre and the post stuff I think that takes us personally for me too I think you do yeah the longest like the writing the recipe that making sure it like works and like the idea and everything yeah well the actually the filming is just you cooking like you would be cooking anywhere so that is probably like the most controlled part of it exactly and the part that we're actually like more used to doing or you know like more like comfortable like just yeah just like cooking is what we so you don't have to really like think about it but like not like too much about it you know yeah yeah i feel like another interesting part about sharing recipes online is that you're in conversation with your audience and you can see just on metrics like when something really pops off or when like you know maybe people actually don't like parsnips that much as an ingredient or something.

26:07I love parsnips. I love parsnips too. I don't know if that was close to home when I said that. Oh no, no, no, it's not. It's just because me and Chuck talk about parsnips a lot because Chuck's sometimes half and half on parsnips. There's actually a dish at a cellar door where we had parsnips. Yeah. And it was just like one of those dishes that was just like so heavily ordered. Heavily ordered. And so he made it so many times. Yeah. Well, I do feel like the thing that's most likely to be underneath a cellar door is probably parsnips or ritual. So you were kind of stuck there a little bit maybe.

26:38I'm curious like Chuck if there's a recipe that you shared that maybe you had a surprising reaction from folks like you didn't necessarily think it would be super popular or like maybe it is some version of a parsnip for people. Maybe it's just a hit like one of the first recipes that you're like oh people are really into this. Personally I'm just surprised anytime anything does. I'm just like oh it's so crazy that people care about this that's all are there certain like times of year i guess around the holidays maybe that like people you're getting tagged a lot in recipes that people are making oh hayley thanksgiving yeah thanksgiving is a big has a big one for me i do love the thanksgiving it's because the midwestern core comes out yeah are you pro like a green bean casserole i am if you make it homemade like if you make the cream of mushroom like sauce but sadly i don't love the canned green bean in the canned soup but you know it's each their own yeah but homemade is it's quite good but you have to eat it i feel like you gotta eat it like right away the fried shallots the fried shallots you gotta add that as you eat it or eat it right away no i like the idea of adding fried shallots as you eat it so that they're as crisp as possible yes that's the that's the move okay i'm like picking up tips left and right today i love it but yeah i'm trying to think like surprised that things yeah actually i used to be surprised that like i used to just like bake bread and just put butter on it and like that would do so well like crazy well and i'm just like i was always surprised by that because i thought it was kind of boring but i guess it's not boring do you think it's like the video shot of the beautiful butter melting onto the warm bread yeah maybe oh you know i used to do a quenelle on it i think that was the whole thing which was like cool to watch maybe okay so you say that you think people maybe don't know that worked in restaurants sprouting quinnell's butter on bread so true maybe some people are picking it up here and there that's true that's true but yeah things like that i don't know yeah i guess maybe my when i when i do uh desserts oh yeah your desserts do really well yeah your desserts are cool what's a dessert that you've done recently um i did the hoshigaki uh sticky pudding whoa okay that's good will you break it down for me a little bit what was the process like so So instead of like a date sticky pudding, I just used the hoshigaki that actually made, what, back in?