369: Phil Rosenthal

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0:31but we start with where do we want to go yeah does this place offer first of all enough places to eat to film for a week because we spend the week in each place does it have enough content it's like writing a script do we have enough story yeah for the length of the episode

0:51This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbart.

1:18to get to know on mic, off mic, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.

1:32Phil Rosenthal, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you? I'm so happy to see you again. When was the last time I saw you? I think it was 19, 2019, you were in the studio, and I think we had a meal around then, too. Yes, that was good. Yeah, we went out to SGV. We went to Szechuan Impressions. Oh, man, is that great. I love that place. So great. And for dim sum, Sea Harbor, everybody. Oh, that's the one. You know that place, right? What's LA Koreatown like for you right now? What are your spots? I know you've got a rotation. My God. Moon? Yeah. You've been there? I haven't yet, but I know it. Really good.

2:05I think that's our number one for Korean barbecue at the moment. It's great. And what about like soups and stews? Oh my goodness. There's so many. Yeah. You know, I can't keep up. I know. I live right there and I can't keep up with it. Yeah, you're like Hancock Park. I'm right there. And a lot of my neighbors are Korean. And I honestly, I look at what's opening. There's at least three or four places a week opening. I know. It's exciting seeing. And then other people, other cuisines are also opening Koreatown. Would you say it's the hotspot in LA? I mean, because it's so central. Yeah. It's an amazing location just like for commerce, like just having anything cool there.

2:46It's like White Hancock Park is great, too. You're just like in the middle of everything. There's awesome sandwich shops and awesome. It's just. I still think Cassell's is my favorite burger. Great. It's great. It's kind of perfect. It's great. So, okay, you're in New York doing some press and you're here. You're always on the hunt for new pizza. Yes. You do that in a way that you're like, you're always on a hunt. What's good right now, Phil? You know, yesterday I went to Joe's on Carmine's just because I was passing it. It says it on the wall, but it's true. It is the quintessential New York slice, I think.

3:18What do you think? I like Joe's a lot. I mean, honestly, the lines in the Times Square one are like 30, 40 minutes now. Okay, so let me ask you. Is it as good as the original? No, definitely not, man. The one on Carmine is the original, and you got to go there. The guys will get you through pretty quick. Wait, 10 minutes wait? Wasn't bad? Not even. Or you skipped the line. No, I didn't skip the line. I don't skip the line. I'm kidding. I know you don't. All right, you ask me, I'll say FNF and Carol Gardens. Never been. It's great. from the Franks. I still think L &B Spamoni out in Midwood. I hear that's amazing.

3:51That's the one. And then I know Mama's 2. You turned me on to that one. Okay. I love him. Yeah. Frank, if you're listening. And he's opening his new place in the village, right? It's true. He's moving downtown finally. That will be as good as the one on 106th Street because he's in charge. Give me one more pizza pick. There's got to be one more. Well, you know I love Raza's in Jersey City. Yeah. Dan Richer. What a guy. Yeah. And Una Pizza Napolitano. Yeah. It's awesome. There's so many. And the LA pizza scene, I have to say, is spectacular. It's rivals. I mean, we were talking off mic about quarter sheets.

4:28Amazing. Aaron Liddell. Amazing. Daniel Holtzman at Danny Boy's Famous Original in downtown. Have you been there? Yes. It's great. And Pizzana, of course. Yes. We have so many now. LA is really good. I mean, it gives - And Moza. I mean, how can you - The original. Nancy. The OG. The OG. Nancy. And you're an investor. Come on. I'm not just saying that. No, I know you're not. I invest in lots of things because I'm not very bright. The first time I had Mozza, she was testing it, right? The first day that she let anyone taste the pizza that she'd been, you know this story, she'd been working on that dough for a year, okay?

5:02The first bite I had, the first day she was letting people taste, it was, I think, the best pizza I ever had in my life. And it is exactly the same today. Yeah. So the moment she was ready for any other human being to taste it, it was ready. Oh, my God. I mean, Pizzeria Moza is still on its own. Yes. Like the restaurant proper is good, too. But, man, Pizzeria Moza is really a top-level pie. And quiesbaca for steak and that stuff. Do you go to Republic anymore? Of course. Good, good. Are you a investor there? Yes. But listen, pound for pound, I'm going to say best overall restaurant in Los Angeles because you go for breakfast, killer, best breakfast, crazy great lunch, and then awesome upscale dinner.

5:51Upscale if you want to do entertaining, if you want to have a private room. I mean, Margie Manske is super underrated. I think on a national scale, she's underrated. Well, she did win the James Beard Award. Okay, that's maybe, she's just not a celebrity chef. I guess industry-wise, people give her crap. As much recognition as she's gotten, underrated, yes. I want to ask you before I get to the show about your opening a diner. Nancy Silverton has talked about it. So let me get – Yes. I don't want to like spoil any great news because honestly no one likes to spoil a surprise. But what can you tell me about this restaurant?

6:24It sounds very special. I live in the Larchmont neighborhood, right? And I love that little strip of Larchmont Boulevard. And I see that it's getting a little gentrified. There's like six ice cream shops there. listen there's there's a lot of stuff that i feel many of us don't need but what we do need not just in my town but in my country it is a diner i think it's a you know where communities gather and they're disappearing and so i want an old school diner was inspired by my trip to maine and i went to the palace diner in biddeford maine have you been there no i haven't So if you see that episode, you'll get it.

7:09Why? Because it's a very old menu in an old railroad dining car, really. Only 15 seats at that counter. But chefs came from Gramercy Tavern and left the menu alone and just elevated it through ingredients and a little bit of chef-y knowledge. This is what Nancy wants to do as well. So I think it'll be very special. And I told the designer of the diner, I want it to feel like we found a hundred year old diner. It's incredible. It's named after your folks. It's called, yes, Max and Helens. Max and Helens. It just feels like it's going to be a special place that has menu items that you will always get to have, Phil.

7:52You get to go there. I think it's my retirement plan. I think, where is he? Oh, he's in the back of the diner. He's over there. He's sitting there with his, you know. You're going to have a booth? You're going to have your spot? I don't need a booth. I want people to enjoy it. You know, to me, a diner is democratic, right? With a small d. It's something that everyone can enjoy without spending, you know, life savings for a cup of coffee. Let's talk about the show. I caught season seven. It's up on Netflix now. Definitely, definitely, definitely watch it. I've always loved your TV. And I've said it.

8:25Thank you. you've been on the show. I mean, it's for children, it's for young adults, it's for adults, it's for everyone. And it brings a lot of joy and love to food when there's still a bit of snark and cynicism about food. And I want to get a sense of season seven, when you and Richard and the folks at ZPZ are looking at a whiteboard, how are you thinking about your season? Where do you want to go? That's funny. It's funny that you think it's that mapped out. There's no whiteboard. The whiteboard is my brain. And first we start with where would I like to go in the world, right? Because there's only a few episodes per season and those seasons are sometimes separated by a year, a year and a half.

9:04So a lot of thought goes into it, a lot of planning. But we start with where do we want to go? Does this place offer, first of all, enough places to eat to film for a week because we spend the week in each place? Does it have enough content? It's like writing a script. But do we have enough story for the length of the episode? I mean, and that's such a great point because a lot of food TV, especially if you look back at it, it's slow because there isn't enough content. They stretch it out and fill your show. And especially Washington, D.C., I thought that the pacing was so great. You're covering.

9:38You're covering. There was a lot to do in D.C. Katie Gould, shout out to her at ZPZ. She's great. I used to sit by her. She's just great. Terrific producer. I think you picked the right places. Oh, thanks. You know, Kyoto is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in my life. Have you been? You've been. I've been to Kyoto a couple of times. What do you think? I love the way that you, at the end, the VO, your script is like, you know, you don't want to leave. But there's a feeling, and I'm paraphrasing, about how you know you have to leave. And there's like perpetual melancholy because you always know you have to leave.

10:09Isn't that weird? It's so true. It is, though. So I was looking for something that some great writer in Kyoto might have written about Kyoto because you suddenly feel like you need some kind of poetry to describe. And the most famous haiku was written 600 years ago, I think. And I'm paraphrasing this, but it literally says, while I'm in Kyoto, I am missing Kyoto. And I felt that on the first day. I felt a little sad. I say it in the show. You do. You know, I'm a little sad on this first day because I know I have to leave in a week. I know. I could. Listen, we ran into, you see it, Rene Redzepi and his team from Noma.

10:58They were there seven months. They hated to leave. I mean. And they live in Copenhagen, which is pretty awesome. Which is like obviously a great place to hang out. Yeah. Yeah. But you know that as a foreigner that you're getting a look at a culture that's so special. And I think the same way of Korea. I spend a lot of time in Korea. And I think East Asia as an outsider, there's so many idiosyncrasies and such care for food. I'm just speaking about food specifically there that you just know you can't replicate it anywhere else. And the attention to detail on every level. My joke is that, you know, you go to the drugstore to buy a pack of gum and they wrap it for you like it's for your 100th birthday.

11:38I know. It's just, I mean, it's the small, doing the small things right. Do you ever watch like roads being repaired in Japan? No. It's like on knees, like you're gardening or like it's like a cultural difference. Okay. This is the segue to Orlando. Okay. Very different place. You've been there? I've been there for 91. I haven't been in a while, but you put Fresh Eyes in Orlando. Why pick Orlando? Okay. So obviously not the first choice when you think of great places to eat. I was as prejudiced as anybody. Yeah. Well, I'm thinking, what else is there besides the theme parks? Well, because Disney's been there 50 years, they've employed tens of thousands of immigrants from around the world.

12:21They've all set up their own communities and brought their cultures and cuisines with them. So I say, we're not calling this Orlando. We're calling this the real Orlando. I like that. Because we don't set foot in the theme park. The diverse food scene is as great as New York, LA, Chicago, anywhere where there's a ton of immigrants who make the world better through bringing what they know and love. There's phenomenal Vietnamese. There's phenomenal Filipino. There's phenomenal Puerto Rican. I could go on. Yeah, it's a very strong statement. And I love that you really do think it through. and there is real journalism and documentary work happening here.

13:04Oh, thanks. No, I love it. And let's talk about Mumbai. If you're filming there and you're going to places that I feel are challenging to film because of the density of humanity. Not just that. I was afraid to go because a lot of people I know who went got sick. It's a common thought about traveling there as a Western. So it took me seven seasons to get there. Yeah. But I did a lot of research and we found the fixers who really know the place, who lead food tours even. And they assured me that I would not get sick. But listen, the water is different. Not only brush your teeth with bottled water, you rinse the toothbrush in bottled water.

13:42That's how serious it is. Yeah, you got to be real. You're not eating fruit with a peel on it. You're not eating things that water could eat. That's the thing. You can eat street food, but you got to make sure that the street food vendor is using bottled water in his food. I also took as a preventative every morning. I was advised to take a Pepto-Bismol as a preventative first thing in the morning. So I don't know if that helped me, but I did not get sick. You felt great, I'm sure. Well, we were not. We were so worried that we still could get sick that we built in a two-week break after filming Mumbai in case I went down two weeks to recover.

14:16But I didn't need it. I'm telling people. I'm happy. If you take the proper precautions, you will be fine. I'm happy that you say that because Indian food is really close to you. You say in the episode you eat it once a week, and I believe you said that when you're on our show previously. It's such a great food, right? It's just – but I've got to tell you, and I say this to everybody, if you like Indian food, you know where it's really, really good? You go to the source. I mean, you know from covering Korea so much. You're never going to find it. You're never going to find it in the States. It's very – no, very true.

14:52Let's go behind the scenes. I think some listeners will enjoy this. Do you film back to back? Are you like on the road for like six weeks filming back to back? So a week each show, we do two at a time. You do? Okay. Yeah. Two back to back with maybe a day off in between. Wow. Then we have a week or so off where we go home and then another two. But most seasons are six episodes, right? Not anymore. This is the supersized season of eight episodes. It took, you know, a few months. Absolutely. And is that your new norm, doing eight episodes? I hope. Listen, I come from the world of sitcoms where we did 24 a season.

15:29That world doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, yeah. Everything, the top order is 10. I know. Right? So I'm lucky for what I can get. You'll take advantage of what you can get. You seem to maximize it. Have to. They dictate how many episodes. We could be canceled at any moment. They could say we have enough. Stop it. It could happen. Stop it. This show is as popular as ever. I mean, I'm saying this. I was literally in the, we were in the lobby and the one person who passed you had these beautiful things to say about the show. Probably happens a lot more now than season one. It's very sweet. It's just amazing.

16:01The reach of Netflix, I will say, is unbelievable because you get stopped all over the world. Yeah, totally, man. But I mean, it's credit to you for figuring out this voice and picking up the reins from Bourdain in a way. I'm saying that. I've always thought that you did something very unique and you're the only one who's really picked up the reins. Oh, thanks. He was the real pioneer, though. He's the hero. I dedicate the whole series to him because we wouldn't exist. I'm merely doing a take on the kind of show that he revolutionized. I'll push back and say this. I'll say you are not doing anything exclusive, which makes me – and, you know, Bourdain had his vibe.

16:45He had his, like, his guys. Superhero. He was a superhero. Absolutely. Great way to say it. But you, there's inclusivity and open-mindedness about food that I think we as journalists sometimes forget about. Really? And you're doing it. I don't know. Do you disagree? I feel like you're looking at the show in a way that you're booking it with people who are both inside Michelin beards. But then you're going to places that are really populist. And maybe some may snark and say, oh, those are touristy. No way. They're essential to the cities. I always say some things are touristy for a reason. Agree.

17:19People like them. People like them. Yes. People want a survey of a city. And by the way, I'll say this. I am decidedly and even proudly a tourist. I know, right? I am no expert. How about that? You're getting there. Listen, you can all get there. The more you do, you know the way I sold the show, right? I said, I'm exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything. I mean, I know, right? So now, though, I can honestly say that I'm a little less afraid. Only because of experience. Only because of getting out there and doing it. So the more you do, the more you travel, the more you're exposed to new things, the less afraid you are.

17:58Because the biggest fear is the unknown. So once you do stuff, it's more known. Have you gotten better? At? Doing the show? Like hosting it? I hope so. I mean, do you feel like you've got an ability now to really walk into a scene and just make it, produce it, essentially? Make the scene work? I'm trying not to be self-conscious about that, but I want to think that the more you do something, the better you get at it. Agree. So maybe I was a little more nervous at first, a little more awkward. And I still have certain awkward things. It's still hard to just talk to a stranger off the bat. We all have that little fear of rejection, right?

18:37In the back of our heads, what if it doesn't go well? What if this, what if that? But I swear after doing it many times, you can't help but feel a little more comfortable. Are there any scenes from this new season that you just, they were like, I mean, it's TV. TV goes everywhere every day. Yes. Are there scenes that you just kind of threw together, meaning with all respect, your producers that just like worked so well in this season? I love the serendipity moments. Yes. That's why, and I would tell anyone planning their own personal vacation, don't over plan. You have to leave room in the schedule for we're walking around today.

19:12Let's see what we can find. In DC, you find women at the bakery. I love that so much. They were great. It was a beautiful scene. You did in Philly at previous seasons. And bringing in people, like obviously bringing Richard in and bringing the cameras into the front of the camera. You were able to do something to bring the movie within the movie kind of vibe. Well, I want no artifice. I don't want anyone to think anything is written. The show is written after. In other words, we get what we get. And then through editing, we start to pare it down. And oh, this seems to be the theme or the story of the show.

19:45We're going to a place. I've never been before. Here are my feelings before I get there. I'm a little nervous about this. I'm a little skeptical of this. And then it happens. Sometimes great. Sometimes, you know. Listen, there's a scene in Kyoto. we go to this very popular spot where the guy makes omarice, which is the egg beautiful omelet over the rice. You won't find a more delicious egg dish in the world. The guy has a shtick now because he's popular. Like a million people on Instagram know who he is. And wow, is it over the top and crazy. It's fun. It's even too much for me. He makes me look like Scrooge, this guy.

20:26Right, right. Right. And that's the unexpected. I didn't know. But sometimes you run into that. Talk about tourists. To like match the energy is challenging for you as the host. I would. And I don't try. Yeah, you don't try. I get that. If you try, then it's going to be forced. So what I do is a little like, it looks like I'm in shock a bit. Because I am. Yeah, I mean, you own it. Like definitely when things are like going a little bit sideways, you can just tell. Listen, how about in Dubai, the very first scene of the Burj Khalifa. I'm on the top floor where you can eat on the, I think it's called Atmosphere, and they're bringing over fancy food.

20:59And I'm sitting there, and the reason I'm sitting there is because the view is spectacular. We'll have a drink at the bar. It'll be gorgeous to look at. They bring me one of the most expensive burgers in the world on a little plate, and it's piled up high. And the meat that is exposed, right, the little bun is off to the side. The meat is covered in gold leaf. all right that's what we're talking about yeah and i go holy cow you guys got to see this and i take the burger on the plate to show it to the camera and it falls on the floor oh my god and uh we keep it in keep it you gotta keep it in i mean it's the best thing cut to opening cut to opening right blooper reel you already have the line producer people say do you have bloopers they're in the show exactly it's not even a blooper right it's like a it's like the Opening cut, yeah.

21:52Iceland, I feel – I haven't watched the episode, admittedly, but I feel it's very touristy. So what did you find out about Iceland that maybe I'm going to like about Iceland? So the main town, Reykjavik, yes, has a tourist element. There's shopping streets like everything else, and people go. But they're going because it's the most charming – it feels like a village that you can walk around. very beautiful and the food scene is really good now yeah i've heard and then you start driving around five minutes outside of town you're on a lunar landscape right five minutes from there forest five minutes from there a volcano going off five minutes from there black sand beaches five minutes from there uh waterfall like crazy yeah that's what they mean by dynamic hawaii and colorado right all at once but if they were all next to each other within five minutes right I'm spectacular.

22:47The Blue Lagoon. Like it is. And for New Yorkers, you're closer to Iceland than you are to London. It's true. That's the one thing we don't - It's on the way. It's on the way. I mean, it's like flying to LA. Shorter. Shorter. Shorter. I think it's four hours. And this is presented by Icelandic Air. No, it's good. Go. I'm just kidding. Go on your next trip to Europe. Stop there on the way or the way back and you'll be very happy. My wife tomorrow will be very happy. Can I pitch you on a - Korea episode part two. Please, please. I loved your episode and you hit some spots. And again, you look at countries as a tourist, but also with an open heart and mind and not trying to hit the tropes and like the cool guy stuff.

23:27And I liked the episode, Coasts and Islands of Korea. Oh, I hear it. The coasts and islands. I feel Busan and Jeju and Gawando. I gotta go. I'm just doing like a side pitch here because I feel like Korea needs a second fill. Do you ever go back to locations? Listen, we're talking about a city that I went to, Seoul. Yeah. So now there's other cities. Agree. Do it. Of course I'll do it. It's so great. Yeah. You'll experience. Tell Netflix. In fact, could you run Netflix for me? Ted Sarandos. I know you got him on the phone. I love him. You got him in your phone. He's a very, very nice and kind man.

24:03He lets you travel the world, my guy. Yeah. Not so bad. I mean, it's an exceptional show, and I think you have to obviously hit the numbers. at that place to stick around for seven seasons. I guess. I just honestly feel I'm the luckiest guy you're ever going to meet. I love it, and you mean it. I want to ask you about The Bear. Have you seen the show? Of course. I love the show. I thought the second season was tremendous. You drop into the writer's room, Phil. I know you ran writer's rooms for years, and you still probably dip in a little bit, I'm going to say. What is happening with Carmi in the season three?