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Podcast Notes: This Is TASTE Episode 395 - The Paris Interview with Ruth Reichl
Episode Overview
- Hosts: Aliza Abarbanel and Matt Rodbard
- Guest: Ruth Reichl
- Release Date: [Insert Date]
- Description: The episode features a conversation with Ruth Reichl, focusing on her new novel *The Paris Novel*, her experiences in Paris, and her inspirations for writing. It also includes discussions about summer travel destinations for food enthusiasts.
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Key Themes and Discussions
Ruth Reichl's Connection to Paris
- Childhood Experiences:
- Ruth shares her first trip to Paris at age 11 with her parents, who had a deep connection to the city.
- Her early experiences laid the groundwork for her lifelong love affair with Paris.
- Culinary Inspirations:
- Discusses how her experiences in Paris during her youth influenced her food writing and the themes in her memoirs.
- Her new novel reflects her fond memories while integrating her knowledge of French cuisine.
*The Paris Novel*
- Overview:
- The novel is set in 1983-1984 and explores themes of love, food, and personal transformation.
- It features character Stella, who evolves from being repressed to experiencing life's pleasures through food and art.
- Character Development:
- The male character introduces Stella to the beauty of French cuisine, paralleling Ruth's own journey of discovery.
- Ruth expresses a deep affection for her characters, describing them as real and difficult to part with after completing the novel.
Culinary Recommendations in New York City
- Ruth shares a list of her recent dining experiences in New York, highlighting:
- Joji: Notable sushi restaurant.
- Cafe Carmelini: High-end yet fun dining experience.
- Sailor: Cozy spot with great food.
- Gramercy Tavern: A classic favorite.
- Kono: Izakaya style with exceptional yakitori.
- Potluck Club: Mentioned as a great meal destination.
Summer Travel Recommendations
- Aliza and Matt discuss their favorite summer destinations for food lovers:
- Chicago: Known for its vibrant summer atmosphere and outdoor dining.
- Portland, OR: Recommended for its food truck culture and proximity to Willamette Valley wines.
- Kingston, NY: Emerging as a food hotspot with diverse dining options.
- Los Alamos, CA: Suggested for its beautiful scenery and delicious wines.
- Northern Michigan: Highlighted for its cherry-driven cuisine and summer activities.
Ruth's Culinary Projects
- Discusses her Substack newsletter, *La Briffe*, where she shares archived writings, menus, and reflections on food culture.
- Shares aspirations for future projects, including another memoir and a potential book about her collected restaurant menus.
Key Takeaways
- Food as a Gateway: Ruth emphasizes that food can open up broader experiences beyond just eating—it's about connecting with culture and art.
- Personal Narrative in Fiction: The blending of personal history and fiction in Ruth's work creates a deep narrative about growth and exploration.
- Summer Travel Insights: The episode inspires listeners to explore lesser-known food destinations within the U.S., emphasizing the richness of local culinary scenes.
Conclusion This episode highlighted the intersection of food, culture, and personal narrative through Ruth Reichl's experiences and insights. The hosts inspired listeners to think about their own summer travel plans with a focus on discovering unique culinary experiences.
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Additional Links
- [Visit TASTE Cooking](https://tastecooking.com)
- [Ruth Reichl's Newsletter - La Briffe](#)
- [This Is TASTE on Apple Podcasts](#)
- [This Is TASTE on Spotify](#)
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This structured summary provides an insightful overview of the podcast episode, capturing the essence of the discussions and highlighting key takeaways for readers interested in food and travel.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. And part of what I'm trying to say in this book is I think food can be a way of opening yourself up to much more than just the sybaritic delights of eating. That it opens up your senses if you allow that to happen.
0:50This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbarg.
0:59Does Ruth Roichel really need an introduction? Ruth has been on the show many times, and we just love catching up with her to talk about, you know, the day's food news, where she's been dining out, and, you know, what gives her inspiration for her great newsletter, Le Brief. But on this episode, it's all about Paris, which is at the center of her new novel, aptly titled The Paris Novel. We talk about her time in France as a child and how Paris played a starring role in a number of Gourmet magazine feature articles and issues. It was so great having Ruth into the studio, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.
1:41Ruth Roichel, welcome back to This Is Taste. How are you? I'm always happy to see you is how I am. I'm happy to see you. this conversation, we're going to focus around France, around Paris, the Paris novel. Your novel is out soon. And really, I will get into some plot. I don't want to do any spoilers, but we'll get into some plot. But as always, I have to know from the jump, where have you dined out recently that's worth mentioning? I'm sorry to tell you that this is a very long list Because for strange reasons, I have spent all winter in New York City and I'm not usually here. And I've been going out a lot.
2:23I mean, I've been so happy to be in the city that last night I went to Joji. Amazing sushi. This is a guy who spent like a long time working with Masa. Yeah. And it's, you know, I had something to celebrate last night. So we celebrated. I love it. That was perfect. Aren't meals a great way to end a great day? Like just having that celebratory meal. Nothing better. Nothing better. Nothing better. I so agree. Cafe Carmelini. I mean, I think Andrew is cooking out of his head there. Yeah. And the other thing about it is it's a really high-end restaurant. It is. That is not stuffy at all. That's really fun.
3:05Yeah. Yeah. I loved seeing him make a very high debut on Pete Wells' Hunter List. That was really cool to see. Yes. I mean, I would choose that restaurant. I mean, I'm embarrassed to admit that I like it so much. I've been there three times. Yeah. Which is, you know, as somebody who's inquisitive and wants to find out about new stuff, to be a regular anywhere must be difficult for you. Yeah, I can't. You can't. I can't do that. It's not your game, right? Yeah. Sailor. Oh, yeah. April Bloomfield is cooking the best food of her life. And it's so cozy and comfortable and affordable. And it's all good things.
3:44You know, if I lived in Brooklyn, I would try and be there a lot. Yeah. It's a tough table to book, though. It's a small space. It is. You got to have the bat phone. Yeah. The other great Brooklyn restaurant I've been to, St. Julevare. Oh, yeah. Just wonderful, wonderful Basque food. Had a great meal at Gramercy Tavern. Yep. And really stunning meal at Kono. Oh, yeah, Kono. And that's a short list for the James Beards. Yeah, yeah. Just nominated yesterday. And it is like so different than other Japanese restaurants you've been to. I mean, it's truly Japanese in its perfection. Yeah. And so that's Izakaya, but coursed out, correct?
4:34Yes. Like kind of doing more of like an omakase, but using the tenets of Izakaya, right? Well, I mean, you know, he's standing over the flames there, actually doing this little dance as he flames the yakitori. And it is like, you've never had yakitori like this. It's really, it's great. That says a lot because you've obviously had some yakitori, especially in Los Angeles. You were the critic for years. That's a great yakitori town. It is. But this is this is otherworldly. Yeah. Labee, great food. Yeah. Luxurious. Terezi. Yeah. The best chicken soup of my life at Terezi. And what a scene, too. It's like definitely it harkens back to early 2000s spice market.
5:22It's just got this like energy in that room that I feel there's no room like it in New York. I think that's right. I think that's right. And two more places I want to mention. Potluck Club. I had a great meal at Potluck Club. Oh, that's such a cool call. I haven't made it there. I love that, Ruth. You need to go. Yeah, I'm going to go. And then the lunch at Porterhouse is the single best bargain in New York City. They do a$39 prefix lunch. Wow. That is, you're sitting in this beautiful room looking out over Columbus Circle, eating. I mean, they have to be losing money on that food. I mean, it's a loss leader to get people in the room during a slow time to hopefully get them back and do, you know, the Super Tuscans at night maybe.
6:04But it's really worth going. I mean, they give you giant portions of delicious food. I mean, they don't cut corners at all. And that's Michael LaMonaco? It's Michael LaMonaco, you know, the luckiest man in New York. Yeah, that story is interesting how he did it. He had to get his glasses fixed in the morning of 9-11. His restaurant was destroyed. Very, very terrible. But but he is truly the luckiest man. And a lovely person and a lovely person going through that tragedy early in his life. I'd love to have him back. I mean, on the show, a great reminder, your Substack. And I was telling you off mic.
6:35So you put so much work into it. Like you like there are a lot of people doing Substacks these days. And God bless them. I love publishing. It's fun. But man, you not everyone puts the work in. What drives you? You don't have to do it. Well, I love doing it. I really love doing it. And part of it is I have this archive of, you know, I've been writing for 50 years. And a lot of those articles from the early days aren't available anywhere. They're not online. You know, all the stuff I did for New West is Metropolitan Home. I mean, they're not available. And they're very much about the beginning of the American food revolution.
7:14And so it's really fun to put those up. And then I get to talk about places I've been. I get to do some writing. I mean, I'm trying to do a little mini magazine every week. It's beyond that. You've got front of book stuff. You've got little short bits. And then you've got your feature story. And then you've got your menus. Let's talk about your menus. Oh, OK. So I have an amazing menu collection because I am a pack rat and I save everything. And so, you know, I started reviewing restaurants in the mid-70s and I just saved every menu I had. So there they are, you know, and they're from all over the world.
7:55Yeah. It's not just in California during the U.S. era. And thankfully you've saved them because these are all lost for time, many of them. So I hope one day you'll do a book of your menus. Well, it's a great – you suggested it. I think it's – I never thought about it. Oh, my gosh. I think it would be the perfect place to get all this writing about old meals and previous meals. But with the design of the menus, I love it. There's a lot of things I want to do about this trajectory from the 50s to now. And food has just changed so much in America, and it's a great way to do it. I love it. Let's pivot to Paris.
8:35I wanted this conversation to really be founded around Paris because you're welcome back anytime. We can do themes. We can talk about, listen, we'll do LA one day. We have Michael McCarty Reese on the show. Great conversation with Michael and you obviously came up. Michael, just what a character. We'll do that one, but let's talk about Paris. The Paris novel is out. It is your second novel, correct? It is my second. Wow. And this is a spoiler free zone, but you got to pick it up. Luth, let me ask you, you know, what was your first trip like? Okay. So my first trip, I went with my parents when I was 11.
9:06And it was revelatory to me. I mean, my mother went to Sorbonne, so she knew Paris really well. My father had spent a lot of time. He was German, but he had spent a lot of time in Paris. So I was there with people who were in some sense going back to a place that they hadn't been. And it was, you know, it was just after the war. It was like 12 years post-war or 13 years post-war. So it was still sort of coming out of that. It was still for Americans very inexpensive. I mean, my parents were not wealthy, but my mother found a great bargain. We actually stayed at the Ritz. Wow. And they took me to their favorite restaurants.
9:56And then very soon thereafter, they shipped me off to a French boarding school. So I would go to Paris when I was a teenager on my own. I worked at French camps as summer jobs. So I would, you know, we would start in Paris always. You know, we would pick the kids up in Paris and take them. Oh, as like a counselor. I was a counselor, yes. When you say you were shipped off to boarding school, what was that like as a New Yorker having an American being shipped off? Well, in Tender at the Bone, my first book, I call that chapter Mars. I did not speak a word of French. Wow. And suddenly, you know, I'm a little Jewish girl from New York, and I'm suddenly in a French Catholic school.
10:45And I was there for months before this thing that I was reciting every morning was the Hail Mary. Yeah, you were doing the morning prayer. That's such a good story. But I did end up speaking fluent French. So going to Paris was really comfortable for me. And one of the reasons I chose to set the Paris novel in 1983 and 1984 is because I got my first real job in 1984. So I went to Paris a lot, you know, Paris on$3 a day. We would take these charters over. You could get a charter for$200 round trip. and we would go and, you know, stay in, you know, little pensions and be there for really no money.
11:40And I went with some regularity because you could do it fairly cheaply. And you yearned to visit there, I imagine. And I loved Paris and it was, and, you know, I was writing about food and I felt like I should know French food, but I couldn't afford high-end restaurants. Then I get a job at the LA Times. It is my first real job. I'm 35 years old. And now I have an expense account. So I can go to Paris and eat in the restaurants that I had only read about. You know, I could go and go to three-star restaurants. And I started going sort of every year. But so I wanted a little bit of that transition of what it was like to go over there with no money.
12:27And then, you know, Stella, my character, meets a wealthy man who is horrified that she has not had any real food in Paris and decides to introduce her. So it was very much so real, by the way, that character construction that that the man who is taking Stella around to these restaurants and and Stella is like kind of ambivalence at times to food. But then curiosity, it kind of wavers a bit. I feel like it's real characters, real people. Well, they were very real to me. Yeah. I mean, I love these characters so much that I had a hard time finishing the book. I didn't want to I didn't want to let them go.
13:09It's great. I want to get to the novel, but I want to ask you first about the 2001 issue of Gourmet is the Paris issue. To me, this issue reflects you would later on do New York issue, San Francisco issue. You would really put your stamp on how to cover travel. But this issue was big. I think you write about it in your last memoir. What did it mean, this issue? And let's talk about the cover, too. Okay. What a great cover. You know, I was new at Gourmet and we had to do a travel issue and I'd always thought that their travel issues were not as good as they could be. And we decided in a meeting that we should try and do one city really well.
13:54And, you know, Gourmet, it had always been a Francophile magazine. I mean, it has a French name. And so we decided to do Paris. And I thought, OK, this is a chance to let everybody on the staff go to Paris. So we all went. I mean, this is Condé Nast in the glory days. Yeah, the most important magazine company in the world when there was no Internet and those ad pages. I mean, what are we looking at, 325 pages, that issue? Probably. Yeah, the threes, maybe fours even. I don't think it was that big. But it was big and it was like, let's think about, you know, how can we do this in the best possible way?
14:36So, you know, we, for the hotel part of it, we had people moving hotels every night, you know. So, you know, when we're talking about staying in this hotel, I mean, we did not let Condé Nast make the reservations for us. We made them ourselves. We stayed as real people. So we were able to say, this is what it's really like. For the staff, you know, they had always farmed out the foreign stuff. So for the staff going over there, for some people, it was the first time they'd ever been to Paris. And you were there leading the way. Yes. And I got to stay in these really high-end hotels, which I had never done before, which was also fantastic.
15:22And we had so much fun doing that issue. But then it was also, you know, part of Paris for me. I mean, I have a master's in history of art, so art has always been a big part of my Paris. And when we thought about how do we do the meals, we thought, let's do it the way artists would do it. Let's do a Picasso meal. Let's do a Brancusi meal. Let's do a Man Ray meal. Yeah. And we researched them really well. And the art department did an amazing job sort of recreating Broncusi's studio. Yeah. What a great show of how magazines were made in a different era when you could shoot like you shot. And really, this issue is available on eBay for$28 right now, by the way.
16:12And I'm going to buy it because I don't have a physical copy. I have some scans of it. Well, you know, the amazing thing about that issue is, you know, in magazines, you print twice as many as you expect to sell. So if you have a 50 percent sell through, that is considered fantastic. Usually you have about a 35 percent sell through on the newsstand. We sold that issue out. I mean, there were no more issues and nobody could believe it. The cover, A Woman Smoking a Cigarette. How do you come to this decision for Gourmet Magazine? We could not find a cover we liked for this. And ultimately, the art director and I just went through the photographs that we had.
16:56And that was just a candid photograph that one of our photographers had taken. But to me, I mean, her back is to you. She's smoking. It is the perfect Paris Bistro. And you just want to be there. And I thought, you know, this is perfect because, you know, it makes you want to open the magazine and see what is in there because you want to walk right in. It's a candid shot, too. It wasn't staged. It wasn't staged at all. It was probably just walking down the street. It was just a photographer walking by and shooting. That's amazing. And really, you see these issues. You kind of codified a style there that you see in subsequent travel issues with real people on the cover.
17:36which I don't think, you know, food mags didn't really do that a lot. No. And most of the stuff that we did was set up and it looks set up. And this was just, it had such a, on the other hand, we did get, we got a lot of letters about the fact that she was smoking. That was my instinct as well. But listen, if you're doing 2000 era Paris, there's no smoking ban. That's Paris. That was Paris. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about the Rue Moutar. You've written about it in your sub stack. You call it the is the oldest market street in Paris. You call it one of the most amazing streets to visit.
18:15Take us there. Okay, so you start at the bottom, and it is basically a market street, although there's not really a market there, but all the stores, they're mostly food stores, and they spill out into the street. So you pass bakeries and butcher shops and fish shops and beautiful, beautiful produce. And as you make your way up the street, it's just one delicious item after another. And if you stop and look at the buildings, I mean, the building at the very bottom of the street, there's this fountain at the bottom of the street. And you look up at this building and I don't know how old it is. It's probably 18th century.
19:02But there are all these animals painted on the building. Oh, wow. And it has been a market street since 1650-something. Wow. And it feels that way. Yeah. The street does not feel like it's a new street. No, it doesn't. Natural materials, yeah. And, you know, in this time when we're creating food halls, to have a real food hall, I mean, that's what it is. It's just, you know, you can munch your way up the street very happily. Yeah. Is Jean Monbert, is that one of your go-tos? Do you like a Jean Monbert? I do. Yeah. It's like truly one of the most common answers when we ask guests about their favorite sandwich.
19:42Yeah. Not my favorite sandwich. No, not putting words in your mouth. But Jean Monbert is, it is a classic. Yeah. What are you finding on the street? What are some of the foods? Well, we found – I was there with Nancy Silverton and Lori Ochoa and one of the things – I mean the fishmongers will open oysters for you. So we just stood there and ate oysters for a while. But then we found this new bakery that Nancy sort of bought everything and we sat at a little table outside and ate. I mean, they had this one that was like a flan in a crust that Nancy was dissecting. Yeah, I love the way she talks about food like that.
20:25Yeah. What a crew, by the way. The three of you host a podcast, which I think is really fun. When you can get it done, it's so worth hanging out with you for that day. Yeah. I mean, the thing about that podcast that's so fun is, I mean, we really just turn on the mics and we have no agenda. We don't know what we're going to talk about. It's the best when you do it that way. you write that you traveled to Paris every day while you wrote the book and I think that's like really an interesting idea that you don't have to physically be in Paris while you're writing fiction and it's unremarkable that you have such a career in both fiction and non-fiction it's like truly a unicorn like element for a writer to have both what do you mean by traveling to Paris I had an experience writing this book that I've never really had before I did not have it with my first book, I had always imagined that writing fiction would be like reading fiction, which is my greatest pleasure.
21:17I did not find that with my first book. This book, I literally, I would say, I'm going to Paris now, and I would take my computer, go into my studio or wherever I was writing and literally find myself in Paris. I mean, these characters just came to me and writing it was like being with them. I can't really explain it. I'm not sure it'll ever happen to me again. But I am not someone who likes to write. I mean, I find writing very difficult as do I think many writers. I mean, I like having written, but the act of writing is painful. Yeah. You clench up a lot. There's some, there's some tension in your body when you write.
22:09This was not that. This was, it was coming through me in some way. Yeah. Spiritual. Yeah. Um, it w it was, it was so much fun and I did not, I mean, normally I will do anything, You know, I will go clean toilets before I, you know, as an excuse not to write. Yes, yes. I mean, very well organized studio, I'm sure. Your desktop is pristine. You've cleared out every file. Yeah, I know. But this was not like, I mean, I couldn't wait to write every day. And it was, you know, I'm probably going to write a sequel to this book because I want more of that. Have you outlined it? In my head. It's there. It's there.
22:50I've asked George Saunders and Gary Steingart and other novelists about their writing routines. And did you have a food routine with your writing? I know George Saunders has really had kind of crappy coffee and that was like it, no food. Did you find yourself to enter Paris doing anything with food? No, I don't have a writing routine. Yeah. I do it when I can. When you have time, when you have inspiration. Yeah. Are you writing for hours or are you doing it in like short bursts? No, this book I would go and write for hours. Yeah. Shakespeare and Company is a character as well. And it's a real place.
23:26It is a real place. It's cool. And it is a remarkable place. Shakespeare and Company is a bookstore that has been in Paris since 1953. And the man who started at George Whitman is one of the most remarkable real characters in the world. He lived to be very old. He went to Paris on the GI Bill. And why the American army decided to do this is beyond me. But they decided that they would give soldiers chits for books. So the soldiers who liberated Paris, the army said, here, you know, go buy books. And most of them didn't want books. So George Whitman bought up all the – he just, you know. Bartered with his former GI.
24:14With all these GIs and amassed all these book chits. And before long, he had so many books, there wasn't room for him to sleep in his hotel room. So he rented a little storefront and started this bookstore. But he truly loved books and writers, and it became a gathering place in the 50s and 60s for the American and English writers who were in Paris to write. And, I mean, first of all, he had this mantra that you could take what you need, pay what you can. Yep. But he just thought books were a gift to people and if they couldn't afford them, they should just take them. And he then started this thing called tumbleweeds where he let people who didn't have a place to stay sleep in the shop.
25:13Yeah. And that's a real moment in the book. Tumbleweeds are part of the book. Yeah. And over the years, 30 ,000 people have slept and some for months on end. and many famous people. I mean, Ethan Hawke was a tumbleweed. Many writers have been tumbleweed. Have you spent the night there yourself? I have not. I have not to my, I mean, I wish I had. Yeah, but you can imagine what happens there and you create a universe with Stella and the fictional owner of the store having a relationship around books. And there's inherent sweetness to it all. And using magical realism to unlock some of the beauty of a bookstore is like one of my favorite things in fiction.
25:56There's like a lot of moments in bookstores in fiction and it's great. Well, and who wouldn't want to live in a bookstore? And in fact, you still can. At Shakespeare and Company, you can still be a tumbleweed. No spoilers, but Stella, you know, has a tragic start to her life. Things improve. Food does play a role, but it's not every line is rich food and detail and texture. And I don't want to get into a conversation about autofiction because I think that's boring. But that said, I want to know that the setting a woman in Paris, your own experiences must have overlapped with Stella in some way or maybe not.
26:35Well, every meal that I write about in this, that Stella eats in this, is a meal that I have eaten. I was wondering that. That's great. And, you know, I went back to my memories and notes about these meals. And, you know, and part of it is, you know, Stella is a very repressed person. I mean, she has never allowed herself really to experience pleasure. And, you know, there are reasons for this. And part of what I'm trying to say in this book is I think food can be a way of opening yourself up to much more than just the sybaritic delights of eating. That I think it's a way to start experiencing the way touch and aroma and art, you know, I mean, that it opens up your senses if you allow that to happen.
27:36And that is very much what happens for Stella, who has never, she's never enjoyed food. And when this wonderful old man, you know, says to her, you know, he's teaching her about art and food and he's opening her up to the things in life that have given him great pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. And it changes her as I think it could change anyone if they allowed that to happen to themselves. Yeah. Well said, Ruth. Thank you for sharing that. There's romance in this book. You know, it's Paris. We have to obviously have that set. But do you have a great romance in Paris? Do you have a memory of a romance? I had a great romance in Paris and I wrote about it in Comfort Me With Apples.
28:26I know. I mean, it was magical. Yeah. Magical and unexpected. Ten extraordinary days that were all about art and food, actually. Yeah. That story has been told from a couple points of view in writing. maybe a gentleman was on our podcast recently I don't want and it's obviously not any spoilers but I think you should go back and read Ruth's memoirs and and I just have to ask you um is there going to be another memoir at some point I know you you have more to say um I just I'm pushing you to write more Ruth I'm sorry because I love it so much I'm such a fan I have so many books I want to write I mean I want to write a sequel to this book yeah which will um actually take place in New York because I have a lot to say about New York in the 90s.
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29:18And I really do want to do, I mean, I wrote my first cookbook when I was 22. It's literally called Mmm. I went Mmm because that's literally the name of it. I have a first edition that you signed. It's like truly a treasure of mine. It's such an incredible book. the art direction in it cannot be overstated about how different and weird it is in the best way. It is different and weird. And I would really like to do a version of that, which one was in color because so many of those photographs are amazing. And I mean, I had all my artist friends contribute to it. But I want to do an annotated version of it to talk about how, I mean, This book is 52 years old.
30:09And I want to talk about how food changed. And, you know, these recipes, I mean, I have recipes for handmade pasta, which, you know, in 1972 was, I mean, nobody made handmade pasta. And for Chinese, I mean, a few Chinese recipes in there, which you couldn't get hoisin sauce. You couldn't get, I mean. And so, I mean, I would like to be able to use this book as a way of talking about. Ingredients and ideas that have a 52-year history. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Ruth, I'm into that. That's cool. I hope you do that. So, you know, those are two projects I want to do. And now you've given me the menu project.
30:52Do the menu. Do that first because that was, I mean, you're already writing it in your sub stack, which is great. You know, I can't let it go. Korean food in America, Korean food in New York. I'm releasing Korea World around the same time as your book, and I'm doing a lot of press and talking about it. But I have to say, you know, you really wrote about Korean food early through the New York Times. And I had seen record how important that was for early recognition for this culture. I guess I'd just like to get your sense of those earliest meals in New York in the Koreatown. What was that like?
31:25Well, you know, I had come from L.A., so Korean food was not new to me. and I was sort of stunned to discover that 32nd Street was Koreatown and that you didn't have to go out to Flushing. You didn't. It was right here. You had to go down to Olympic Avenue. Yeah, Boulevard. And that New Yorkers didn't know about it. And I loved Korean food. And, you know, when I was at Gourmet, I mean, for years, people would say, what's the next big trend? And I would say, Korean food. Yeah. And it was like a joke at Gourmet, you know, because I was like, you know, 30 years ahead. I mean, timing is everything.
32:06It really is. Eventually, everybody's right. Yeah, it's true. But it was incomprehensible to me that this delicious food that was very much to America's taste, you know, I mean, it was beef. It was barbecue. It was garlic. I mean, it was like all these flavors that we really love. And which are not foreign at all. Absolutely not. The larder is extremely Western in many ways. Yeah. It's very, very, very, very common, a lot of ingredients. And it was so much fun. And in those days, there were still restaurants where they brought live charcoal to the table to grill. And so when I did that first review, which was very early on in my tenure.
32:50Was it Kongse? Was that the one you did? It was, yes. Yeah, Kongse, 36th Street, second floor, legendary place. And it was so amazing to the Korean community that it was not in the$25 and under column, that it was like – that I took it seriously. And there was a Korean art director at the New York Times and she came with me. And then she later took me to Cho Dangal, which I reviewed. But the Korean – two Korean newspapers in New York came and interviewed me. And because they couldn't believe that somebody was taking Korean food seriously. National news in Korea. I'm sure the cable channels were going wild at that moment.
33:35Which today seems unbelievable because, you know, what is happening with Korean food in New York is so exciting. Unbelievably exciting from the high end to the highest end to Ari Ari down in the East Village. Her name is Han. Places in Han Hospitality. I mean, what the Han Hospitality people are doing is stunning. Yeah. It's exciting. And really, I'm just really just it's such an amazing piece of journalism that you did that. I mean, it was important that you did that. And you probably did for many other cultures, too. But for Korea, I just know a little bit more. So, yeah, well, it was it was very fun.
34:11It was very fun to come to New York with a California sensibility. Yeah. And say, you know, look at what you have here. Yeah. It's cool that you say it that way. I mean, it really is when you have that, like you have the real seasoning of L.A. and then fresh eyes. And fresh eyes are so important. I don't think a critic should have a shelf life, but I kind of do. And I think like having fresh eyes on the city, bringing someone from outside to your city makes for a great restaurant critic. Well, and also, I mean, what's happening now, which is so exciting, is we're actually getting people for whom it is not foreign food.
34:47You know, we're getting. Yes. I mean, I was in San Francisco last week and I had lunch at a Korean restaurant actually with the new critic at the Chronicle, who is the granddaughter of Henry Chung, who was the guy who started the Hunan restaurant in San Francisco, which was a place. God, we all loved that restaurant so much in the 70s. It was Hunan food was such a revelation to us. Yeah, Mackenzie's work there is going to be remarkable. She's such a voice and her history before, but now rooted in San Francisco. It's going to be cool. Yeah, and she's so bright. And I mean, I really loved her. Yeah.
35:35Oh, it's cool that you connected. Do you feel yourself mentoring critics of all stripes? No, it was just... I just wanted to, you know, I'm such a fan of Soleil Ho, who was her predecessor. And I thought, you know, who are they going to get to replace Soleil? And I wanted to meet her. I just. I love it. Reaching out is so cool that you did that. I love that. One more story about one more question about fiction. And I know you just said you're going to base your next novel in New York. But is there a time and place, theoretically, that you'd really love to set a novel and fiction in from your travels, from your kind of your worldview?
36:14Well, you know, I had this very odd experience when I was eight. My family went to Merida. And my mother found out that our guide had a daughter my age, an eight-year-old. And she decided it would be really great if they went on to Guatemala but left me with Rosita's family for a week. And we went to the market and bought me a hammock to hang up in their house and bought me – I remember them. They were like magenta metal plate and a magenta metal cup. and I lived with this family for a week. I mean, my mother was a little crazy, obviously. Yeah, you've written about it. I mean, this is a theme, yeah.
37:04But that was very eye-opening to me in many ways. I mean, these were not wealthy people. And to be part of sort of life in a Mexican village, you know, as a child where everybody just accepts you, You know, I mean, it's like you're not a tourist. You're not a visitor. So you're just playing. You're just going out and playing. You're going shopping. Yeah. You're playing. You're playing with the objects in the home. Yeah. And you're helping mom cook beans. Yeah. And this is also, you know, the food of Yucatan. I mean, we're talking about the 50s. That's a time that I would write about. Ruth, on This Is Taste, we asked guests about the discerning taste.
37:45So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Now, I know you've taken this before, but because food is always changing, it's a flexible. I know you're going to have new answers. OK. Are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit? Peaches. Do you have a farm that you go to in California, in New York, the southeast? Well, Frog Hollow in California. Yeah. I mean, they do have really great peaches. The worst vegetable? Well, this is a hard admission, but I don't like bitter melon. Bitter is hard for me. Yeah. It can be challenging. prized by some, loathed by others.
38:20What's why food's so cool? The best dessert. Any fruit pie. I love fruit pies. Your favorite American fast food chain? You know, I don't eat a lot of fast food, but my husband was in the hospital for a long time. And when he was able to eat again, he wanted us to bring him Shake Shack every day. So he really craved it, really wanted it. And I have to say it was pretty good. Yeah, it's good. It's a good answer. I think they cook it right. They know what's going on with Shake Shack. Your favorite recent cookbook discovery? Well, you know, I am about to interview Joan Nathan on stage next week. Maybe I shouldn't be talking about time.
39:11It's okay. Joan will be in the studio as well. I can't wait. I'm getting ready. Her book is pretty amazing. I mean, what she's done is her life in recipes. And the recipes are great, but her life is amazing. I mean, this woman has – you think I'm adventurous? I mean, she has had so many extraordinary adventures. I mean, she has been so open to the world. She has met so many amazing people. And her recipes are really great. I mean, you go through it and you think, I know how to make this. And you think, wait a minute, this is a really good idea. Yeah, she's very genius with the development. That's why she was published for years and years.
39:52People kept publishing her recipes because they worked. They were great. That's a good answer. I can't wait to talk to her. A few more, a cuisine you would like to learn more about. Indian. I mean, I just feel like what we know about that continent is so tiny compared to what is available. and you know the way Indians use spices is so extraordinary and you know how you can change them roast them I really need to know more about Indian food Do you guys have any trips planned this year? You and Nancy and crew? Yes we are going to Basque country both France and Spain Oh wonderful when's that happening?
40:32In the fall? Oh yeah Is it sold out? It is not quite sold out Well, we can link to it, you know. I love it. It's a really great trip. I mean, we're going to extraordinary restaurants in both France. And then we're going down to San Sebastian. And we're going to Bordeaux, which is the hot new place to eat now in France. Yeah. Long forgotten part of France. Yeah. I'm really excited. And then we go to San Sebastian. Yeah. We're going to Echabari. Yes. And the meal with that steak. Yeah. So, oh, Echabari. On my list to go to that place. Have you been? I have not. There you go. So I'm really excited about it.
41:09That's the best with travel when you get to go to the place for the first time you've heard about. Right. Yeah. So great. I mean, I think I've been every place else on this trip, but I have not been there. That's the one. Oh, wonderful. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Peanut butter and jelly. I love peanut butter and jelly. I would happily eat it for lunch every day. Yeah. I think I did that for a couple of years. That is such a, now let me dissect that. Type of peanut butter, type of jelly, and type of bread. Okay. I'm pretty old school about this. Pepperidge Farm white bread. Yeah. Really good peanut butter.
41:41I mean, you know, freshly ground, chunky peanut butter. Yeah, but you were going with the fresh ground, not processed. Yeah. Got it. I really, I don't want any hydrogenated stuff. I mean, that's how you elevate it. Butter. I always put butter on my peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And then the best strawberry jam. Strawberry. I mean, it has to be red jam. And I'm partial to the tip tree. They're excruciatingly expensive strawberry jam. But you know, it's a small luxury in life. It is a small luxury. A small luxury. We have to recognize price when it's high and low, but we're talking about jam here.
42:26So yeah, extraordinary expensive, but worth it. Yes, yes. I love it. Well, Ruth Reichel, you're always welcome back. Congratulations on the novel. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. This was so much fun. Thank you.
42:45So, Liza, we're here. It's kind of like, we'll call it early spring, but I know a lot of folks are planning summer vacation right now with family, with friends, solo, all sorts of different iterations of summer travel. So I wanted us to take a little moment and give three destinations each that we just find interesting. Now, we haven't told each other these, so maybe there's some overlap perhaps. But I want to go over some of these locations, why we like going there for the food and otherwise. So what is your first one? My first one is that I love going to Chicago in the summer. I would not go any other time of year.
43:21Yeah, absolutely. Is that one of yours? No, it's not. But I have a similar vibe with a different city. So let's go with that. I love Chicago. I went to school in the Chicago suburbs and now I never go back to visit my friends. I kind of only go in the summer just because the winter is truly so long and oppressive. But also the summer vibes in Chicago are just so special. I feel like getting to hang out on the lake is so great. There's outdoor dining everywhere. And I feel like there's also just an energy in the city that everybody knows how rare that time of year with the weather is. And I really want to make the most of it in terms of just being outside all of the time, having like frozen drink specials, things like that.
44:00I want to shout out also my favorite karaoke place in Chicago, which is Alice's Karaoke, which is not a summer thing. But I do think if anyone's going to Chicago and they want to just experience like a very fun and specific version of the city, it is the 2 a.m. crowd at Alice's. I love it. Chicago is one of my favorite summer cities as well. You know, it's like a six week period. It's a bad joke, but it really is kind of a short season. And really, growing up in the Midwest and going to college in Wisconsin, there's like this time in early May when everyone decides it's summer or maybe mid-May.
44:32But it's not. It's still like 40 degrees sometimes. Sometimes it gets crazy, but then those beautiful days, it hits different. Southern California crew, Texas crew, even Southeast, you're not getting that. And really, I love being on the lake. I love being outside in Chicago, Grant Park. Catch up on the Pitchfork Festival in July is always a good call. Yeah, I like going for Pitchfork. I would say it's kind of the only music festival that I'm interested in going to these days just because the booking is really good. But also it's a very manageable festival. It's not you can walk to all of the stages easily.
45:03You can take the subway there. It's in the center of the city. It's not like too much schlepping. Yeah. Riot Fest and Lala are kind of a little bit much for me. So, yeah. Yeah, they're a lot. But if it's your vibe, it's also fun to do. Also, frozen custard is one of my all-time favorite summer desserts, and it is a Midwestern staple, so that's a fun thing to do. I like going to Lickety Split in Chicago uptown for frozen custard. And I also would recommend getting a concrete, which is when they mix your topping in with the custard, almost like a McFlurry vibe. My dad used to be a good humor man when he was growing up in Rogers Park on the north side.
45:38He used to drive around in a little bicycle with good humor bars. And so, yeah, he would tell me he lived right on the lake. So yeah, there's great lake time hanging out. Yeah, I love that. What's your first summer destination? So similarly, my first one was a city that I have found to be not challenging, but not ideal outside of the summer months, meaning like July, August, September, and it's Portland, Oregon. I feel Portland is amazing in August and September for me. Okay, it's also one of, it's on my list because I go to Portland, Oregon every August, and I think it's the best. Well, we'll do this as a shared one.
46:14We'll call this like, you know, yeah, two, one and two, two. So my take on Portland is this, you know, you got to do two things when you're there. You got to hang out in Portland and you got to hang, drive out to the Willamette Valley because the Willamette Valley is gorgeous. And it's one of our country's best wine regions that you should maybe, maybe don't know as much about as like Napa and Sonoma, even parts of the East coast, but Willamette's amazing. I just want to call out because this is a joint we can like link up about our spots, but here are my spots for Portland and we can vibe that.
46:42I was in Portland two times for reporting Korea World, and we're going to be there in May for events because I just thought Portland was such an interesting food city with a really strong and growing Korean-American scene. So two restaurants I love is Hanok and Jeju from Peter Cho and Kim Jong Grillin, which is a food truck that I feel is doing some terrific work. I have a few more restaurant picks, but I'll let you pick up from here. Well, I just think the food truck culture in Portland is really specific to the Pacific Northwest and cool. They have these kind of food truck lots. One of my favorite places is called Friendship Kitchen, which is a Vietnamese place that I think originally was in the food truck lot.
47:21But now they do have a smaller brick and mortar. So I like going there. I'm curious about your other restaurants. I mean, there's a few I love going to. There's Nong's that does the chicken and rice. The best, like the most soul warming, perfect common guy I've ever had. Common guy. I mean, it's like truly the best I've ever had. It's so pure and clean. And just like the condiments, I think, are the underrated part. Because Nong has got this way with chili oil and some of the spicy condiments that you're going to put on with a tiny style chicken. I just love it. I mean, I try to go there every time I'm in Portland.
47:56So that's one of them. Ken Forkish's Artisanal Pizza and Bakery is always a go-to for me. I always try to hit the bakery up at least once. I have many more. What about you? I mean, we're talking Portland. Well, when I like to go to Oregon in the summer, my sister lives there and we like to go camping together. So I would just say that the farmers markets in Portland are some of the best I've ever been to. And the produce is so fantastic. And I think what's really special is just going to one of the markets, getting some great seasonal produce and then going out to the Willamette Valley. We go camping on the Halem River every summer.
48:30There's wild blackberries that grow all over Oregon. And like to me, there's nothing more summary than getting to pick your fruit and then maybe making pancakes for breakfast and putting them in the pancakes or something like that. Our last trip, we went to this pop up called Bialy Bird and got Bialy's and then brought them out for our camping weekend, which was a fun move. And they do really cool over the top Bialy's themselves and also like the schmear. Like I think I had a really good jalapeno cucumber cream cheese schmear last time. I guess what's your next one? So my next one is this. I wanted to call it Kingston, New York, because a lot of times, and I think a lot of our listeners throughout the country are interested in the idea of upstate New York.
49:11You know, you get a little bit of Manhattan, a little bit of Brooklyn, but you want to do like this two-way trip. And I think like spending two or three days in New York City and doing your New York City thing and then, you know, renting a car or even you can take the bus and head out into the center of town in a place like Kingston or Hudson. You're going to like have this beautiful week-long trip of New York. But, you know, Hudson, New York, it's a lot of press and it's a nice place. I just love to go into Mel's Bakery, the new Mel up there. And I thought it was amazing. But really, I want to shout out Kingston because Kingston to me is like the best food city in New York right now.
49:43It is truly on fire. So many interesting places, new places. It's about two and a half hours inside New York City. And you can stay really anywhere around Kingston, like High Falls. You could stay in Poughkeepsie. You could stay, you know, honestly, you could stay even further up and then drive into Kingston. But what you're going to get is some incredible restaurants with diversity, with really like unique concepts. And I just have such a list. Have you been to Kingston? I haven't spent a lot of time there, so I'm really curious about your recommendations. So really, I think of Kingston as having to, you've got uptown and downtown.
50:18And I think right now I've got a couple picks that I feel you got to go to. And one is Mirador. Mirador is a brand new sherry bar doing Southern Spanish cuisine to go with the sherry. And really, it's tremendous. I mean, it's really, really, it's early days for them. But from what all the locals tell me and from what I experienced when I was there a couple weeks ago, and I had some great NA cocktails and my friends had sherry and beers. And really, the food is outstanding. You've got to book ahead to make sure to book ahead. But Mirador is definitely a good early start. get some snacks at the bar and then find yourself over to Clio.
50:57You know, Clio is, is a restaurant that doesn't take reservations, but it has high ambitions and feels like it maybe should hint, hint, just kidding. But I think that it's the kind of place that does like really, I think very structured food, very plated food. And really to me, it's like new American farm driven cooking at its best. If you go downtown, there's a place called Rosie's general that I feel like I've talked about on the show a couple of times, but that's like an all day cafe doing lunch staples, like sandwiches with mortadella and fresh pastas. I hear they're going to maybe be doing dinner service, so I've been hinting at that.
51:28This Kingston Bread and Bar, which I think is like some of the best baking I've experienced in all of New York State. Mel included, which I think is great up in Hudson. And really, I like the pizza at Ollie's. Ollie's Pizza, there's two locations, one in High Falls, which has this beautiful outdoor space. It's about 15 minutes outside of Kingston. On the way to Woodstock, that place, I think if you want to hang and do like a group hang, you got like friends in the area and you want to like get a picnic table for like 12, order pies and just like a lot of frozen Negronis, like that's the spot. It's really cool.
52:00But they also have a slice shop in downtown Kingston as well. So these are a few that come to mind. I just think if you base your upstate summer vacation around maybe going into Kingston once or twice, even more, and then supplement it with visits to Hudson or just cooking at home, get that week-long Airbnb. I love upstate in the summer. I try to not travel in the summer and just be there. I love it. Okay. I just want to shout out one other Kingston favorite of mine, which is a pupusa place called Pupuseria Mi Ranchito. Have you been there? 100%. I've been there. I think that place is amazing.
52:32I think it's terrific. Yeah, I love Papusa's Darabell comfort food for me. And I think especially if you're doing a drive to somewhere else and you want to pick up something to go, that would be really great. And I love being in New York in the summer and especially upstate. So I think this is a really great recommendation. What's your last one? My last one is Los Alamos, California. Yes. Specifically, I think a California road trip in the summer is the ultimate. I feel like I'm very romantic with my summer vacations. I want to feel like I'm in a fantasy and driving up the coast of California, whether or not you're going from Northern California down or vice versa.
53:10I think no matter what you're doing, you should stop in Los Alamos for a night. I know you were there recently. I was. I feel like the wine there is so great. I stayed at the Skyview Motel when I was there. So cool. I drove by. It looked great. It's a really cute motel. They have great wine from the region there and the little fire pits you can hang out at night. And obviously to go to Bell's for a lovely steak-free lunch or something similar is special. I also really like the Lo-Fi Wines Taproom that's in the little downtown area. They make one of my favorite Amaros. And I think that no matter where you're going, it's a nice day-long, day-and-a-half pit stop.
53:47Yeah, and Los Alamos is only two hours outside of L.A., right? If you live on the west side, it's closer. Yeah, I mean, two hours depending on traffic as the line always goes. But it is quite close to Santa Barbara also, which is special. Or if you're going up the coast and you're going to go to. You could Carmel. It's like not on the way to Monterey Carmel. Yeah, yeah. It's totally on the way. And there's lots of great hiking and things nearby. And yeah, I did a winter road trip in California in January. And I did a whole thing on that. And that was a really memorable trip. And I think California is just one of the most amazing states to drive around.
54:19Rent that car. Hit like three cities. It's so amazing. I mean, you have to feel that way because you have to drive around. But it is pretty to drive around. It's pretty. I love it. What's your last one? Northern Michigan. Northern Michigan, you can fly direct from Chicago, New York. I believe Los Angeles has directs now in the summertime to Traverse City Airport. Now, Northern Michigan, like some of the other locations, is I would call it challenging during the late fall into mid-spring. It's cold. There's lots of snow. It's beautiful. There's lots of great skiing up there. But really, if you're going to visit Michigan, do it in the summertime.
54:56And kind of base your trip around Traverse City along the Leelanau Peninsula. And my best bet is to hit up one of the small towns like Glen or really towns that border the Lake Michigan coast. But then you can head into Traverse City and get some great cuisine. And really, you can go to a place called Farm Club, which is this really great summertime restaurant that has a lot of different pop-ups. and they have a great pizza oven. And, you know, I have not been, so I'm like speaking only from secondhand, but I've heard it's the place to be in the summertime. And I just feel like Northern Michigan has this cherry thing going on.
55:34I know Washington State claims to be the cherry capital of America. Fair enough, but I think Northern Michigan cherries are pretty bomb. And like, I'm biased, but I think they have a great handle of how to cook with cherries. Oh, I just can't wait to be eating cherries. That sounds so nice. It's great. And they do like lake trout with cherries. They do like a lot of savory cooking with cherries, like chutneys with cherries. And of course, they have lots of pies and tarts with this very specific tart cherry. It's not the bings. It's not those giant, juicy, fruity ones. It's like a little more sour.
56:03But I think for me, that's the kind of cherry I prefer. I love a sour cherry. I feel like I always get them and anticipate cooking with them. And then I just eat them because they're so good. They're like little gushers. So let's close this. We've mentioned all these places. Are you going to any of these locations this summer? I don't know, but I really want to go to Montreal this summer. I didn't talk about it because I haven't been there before. But I have just heard the best things from all my friends who have gone there. And I do think it is another location that is probably the most hospitable to foreigners when it is nice out.
56:37It stays light so late there. And there's so many great wine bars. How about you? Well, you know what? I'm doing a couple of taste travels this summer, so I'm really excited about those. But for me, it's probably going to have some friends in town and probably head upstate and get a place and maybe do a little like a weekend, weekending, maybe way up in the Finger Lakes, like Kuka Lake. I love it up there. I'm glad we kind of aligned with it being all domestic. We're not we're not getting into the politics of staying local. But I think in the summertime, I love international travel. We do these trips, but it's pretty costly to go to Europe in the summer these days.
57:10And I think we've got so many great spots locally in America, not locally, but in America. Yeah, I agree. And again, it's not travel, but I as someone who loves living in New York, I think a New York summer is really hard to beat. And so I don't really want to go too far because I want to be able to take the ferry and go to the Rockaways and get pina coladas and like do all of the New York things I love to. Oh, my gosh. We haven't even gotten into the ferry system. I'm so agree. Some people don't like New York in the summer in New York City and they like to leave. But I'm with you. I love those quiet weekends when the streets are empty, when everyone's gone.
57:43Those are the best. Fourth of July is by far the best wet restaurant week to book. Literally, you can book at any restaurant. Go to New York Mag. Look at their top 100 restaurants or New York Times. The ones that are booked out and you get the only the 5 p.m. and the 945 p.m. if you travel to New York during Fourth of July, you will be able to book at any restaurant. Guarantee it. It is truly the best. Yeah, that's true. And there also will just be fireworks happening all around you, which is fun too. I love that too. So that's a great vibe too. You get to have the fireworks. And I think heading to the Jersey Shore is amazing.
58:16You can take the Sea Streak and head to the National Park on the tip of the Jersey Shore. And you can also go to Franny's, which my sister-in-law owns in Highlands, New Jersey. That's a shout to her. But I love going to the Jersey Shore. I think it's a beautiful shore. And it's not what you saw on MTV like 15 years ago. It's not all that. I've never been to the Jersey Shore, actually. Yeah. So when I do picture it, that is what I think of. But I know that's not true. So maybe I'll have to go this summer and just kind of recalibrate my thoughts. Yo, I mean, Asbury is amazing. Like Asbury Park has got a great food scene.
58:52And I think that it's really exciting when all these folks from all over the country come and do their weeks and two weeks at the shore. You get like lots of energy and life. But yeah, it's not all about the boardwalk culture. I mean, you can get that and that's all fine. I'm not going to hate on that. But I do think there's like really great farms in New Jersey. It's like one of our best farming states. It's kind of like not talked about. Yeah, drizzy tomatoes. I feel like that's so huge. Green beans. I think you're getting corn. That's the best on the East Coast. It's amazing. Agriculture state.
59:22Well, I can't wait for it to be summer. This has been really fun to emphasize. I know. I'm feeling like I can smell the coconut tanning oil. I'm feeling like I'm going to be getting some cut off shorts happening in my future. Yeah, I think you're just smelling my metaphorical pina colada. I love it. Thanks for sharing. You too.
59:43This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.
From the publisher
Does Ruth Reichl really need an introduction? Ruth has been on the show many times, and we just love catching up with her to talk about the day’s food news, where she is dining out, and what is giving her inspiration to write her great newsletter, La Briffe. On this episode we talk about Paris, which is at the center of her new novel, aptly titled The Paris Novel. We talk about her time in France as a child and how Paris played a starring role in a number of Gourmet feature articles. It’s so great having Ruth in the studio.
Also on the show, many listeners are starting to think about summer vacations and Aliza and Matt talk about some of their favorite destinations to visit for exciting food during the warmer months. These locations include places Chicago, Portland, OR, Kingston, NY, Los Alamos, CA, and Northern Michigan.
Do you enjoy This Is TASTE? Drop us a review on Apple, or star us on Spotify. We’d love to hear from you.
MORE FROM RUTH REICHL:
Power Player Past [La Briffe]
Ruth Reichl’s Ultimate New York City Snack Crawl [The Infatuation]
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