404: New York Magazine Food Boss with Alan Sytsma

26:17to do in a week, in a month, you know? And so that's just always been the MO. And, you know, everything else is kind of outside of your control. So brother, brother, we share the same ethic, brother, you cannot get comfortable in media. You really can't. I know that's like probably not great for work-life balance, but like you gotta always fear that there's going to be a change. And I don't fear here. I mean, as much, but I feel like you gotta always be aware that there's changing tastes and preferences and you've got a big staff. I mean, you've got in food media, there's like no staff anywhere.

26:50There are changing tastes, certainly changing styles. But at the end of the day, the like the nuts and bolts of it don't change. And being interesting, being able to tell a good story and being able to package that story in a way that attracts people. You know, that's the challenge no matter where you are, no matter what the medium is. And so that's just what you have to do. Alan, I want to segue and talk about the special issue that you put out. But I want to read a little bit from the intro. It's really beautifully written. Restaurants are extensions of our offices and refuges for our tiny kitchen, many of which are barely functional.

27:24With respect, our best spots are not defined only by their cooks and their hosts and their servers. They're defined by us, the regulars. Such a great sentiment. This package talks about being regulars at these restaurants through the years. But I want to start this conversation. We've talked about this a lot at Taste in our editorial meetings. and we actually were working on a story for a long time, never quite got it right. How do you become a regular in New York City and what does it mean? So the package is called Who Ate Where? It is, as you said, very focused on the sort of scenes and the tribes within individual dining rooms and restaurants and neighborhoods.

28:03And as we were going through it, it was a lot of talk about like, who are the people? You know, what does it mean? You know, what is Lakot Basque without its swans is the next line of that sentence. And like, what is Sylvia's without Al Sharpton? And I think that to be a regular, everybody has their place or their places. And, you know, if you live in New York long enough, you get so you can text a few people and get a table at a hot restaurant because you've been there, you know them. But I think the real test is whether the restaurant is happy to have you in the restaurant. And I think that if you are adding something to the dining room, whether that's like a certain kind of energy, whether that is you're just a whale, whatever it may be, for the restaurant to be happy that you specifically are there, that's when you have really arrived as a regular.

28:57Well said. I asked Michael McCarty, the owner of Michael's and Michael's Santa Monica, that same question. And he's frankly just said, you have to go there a lot. And that's what makes it. But I think the tribalism of restaurants is if you get a group of the same people going there a lot, not just like once a month, but once a week, becomes a scene. And you cover this beautifully. Let's zoom out a little bit about the issue. And I just want to get a little behind the scenes. When did you start thinking about this issue? And how does this work with like your whole team and your – I know like the photo research in it alone must have been incredible.

29:31Like the amount of time you spent the photos alone. I wish I mean, it'd be a great photo exhibit just to see these photos in person. I would love to see that personally. Yeah. That was our art department for about three weeks. So we last summer, we ran a story about the quilted giraffe and it was written by Adam Platt. I think we slugged it like the hottest restaurant of 1986 and there was no peg. Like we only wanted to write a story that would take readers inside of like a hot restaurant and try to evoke the feeling of being there. And I don't know what any of us were really expecting when we asked Adam to go for it.

30:05But, you know, the photos that we had for that story, it's like pictures of Madonna sitting at the pass that are like Polaroids shot in, you know, the early 90s. And Warren Beatty eating, you know, beggars purses off of candelabras and stuff. And so it was just like it was great. and I think that from that point on it sort of served as a template we knew that there was this yesteryear issue coming up we do one every year big anniversary issue last year it was like the it girls issue yeah I love that um four covers for it girls that's right a bunch of it girls and so but beyond that we just sort of knew that that's what was going to happen in the spring but it was only in January that um Alexis Swerdloff who is the deputy editor at the magazine and my co-captain on the issue.

30:51In January, we kind of sat down and we're like, okay, what does this look like? What is this? Let's go off for two weeks. We're going to talk to some writers. We're going to tell the photo department. Everybody's just going to kind of think about like what this could be. And we're going to come back together and throw everything against the wall and see what sticks where. And it was kind of like, you know, are we going to do like the hot restaurants of like from the last century? Is it going to be about food? Is it going to be about chefs? Like, it's a big topic. So what is it going to be? Is it going to be a big list of names of just restaurants?

31:23You know, and you just keep kind of encountering like, okay, that could work, you know. But it was when.

31:40Siding at El Monaco's, which is in the issue. Love that image. I looked at that for like five minutes. I just like thought about that image. Out of all of the images that we were seeing, that was the thing that stood out. And we all wanted to know more about the night, more about this birthday party that was apparently being had there. And that was when the wheels really started to turn where we realized, OK, this isn't going to be an issue about food or chefs or even really restaurants necessarily. It's going to be about the people inside the restaurants. And so now let's go to the writers that we know.

32:09Let's go to the people that we know. let's talk about restaurants that they miss, nights that they had in these places, places that maybe they worked. Let's look at, you know, different neighborhoods and where little pockets of community started to form. And just let's cast the widest net possible, but with that as the mandate. And everything really kind of fell into place after that. Like making that choice was the thing that really helped it to click because all of a sudden the restaurants became self-selecting. The moments became self-selecting. I mean the art probably selected some of them too, I would imagine.

32:47Oh, absolutely. I mean we had, you know, multiple lists. We're kind of working in parallel. We're staying in like constant communication. Okay, here's what our writers are wanting to write about. Here is what the photo department is finding. And maybe there's a story for this picture of Andy Warhol in a McDonald's. Or maybe there's a story for, you know, this picture of Sugar Ray Robinson outside of his restaurant in Harlem. Yeah, with his car. And so that's when, you know, at every turn we could just say, OK, we're trying to answer the question of who. And so there were all sorts of restaurants like that, you know, famous restaurants that obviously weren't included in the package.

33:23And it's like, well, who's the who, you know? And it's like if we can't answer that question, then it's just not a good fit for here. And you only want to spend so much time in like high society Manhattan. You know, so it's like where are we going to look and who are we going to talk to? It's such a challenging project. And you've made it seem easy. But it's like we can't do the obvious things. That's like New York Mag's real like legendary status. It's like everything needs to be unexpected. But you obviously can't just be esoteric. So you've got Max's Kansas City, which you imagine is always going to be in this issue.

34:00It's like you've got Elaine's in there as well. To me, those are like two places that you hear about. But then you've got a place that's called, and I want to hear a little bit about it, Maxwell's Plum, which I am just like so interested about this place. Set it up a little bit. I mean, we knew about it. So it's like you said. We had this list of restaurants. Like, do we need to read 500 more words about the Four Seasons? Does anyone care about like, you know, pick a place they read about? There's a lot about the Cote Basque, you know? Yeah. Even, yeah. Exactly. And so, like, how do we cover these places that it feels like we sort of need to include, but what is the moment that feels surprising or interesting or exciting and isn't just an encyclopedia entry about, you know, Restaurant X?

34:44Maxwell's Plum was one that we knew, you know, was on the list, big single scene in the 70s. We knew that it was something that we wanted to include. and we knew that Adam Platt, because of what he had done on the Quilted Giraffe, this is going to be a place that's really going to, like, he's going to be able to find the people who were there and really write colorfully about this place. And as it turns out, he absolutely could. And Drew Nieperent, which I didn't even know, had been the general manager there when he was in his 20s. Legendary founder of Nobu and Montresay and the real legend in the industry.

35:19And a great interview. you famously uh very colorful quotes and somebody that if you can talk to for a story you want to talk to for a story because he's gonna be in the studio he will have nothing but fun things to say and maxwell's plumb so yeah so it's this big single scene uh kind like sort of with the first tgi fridays kind of one of the first places where single professional women are comfortable going and just sitting at a bar. It's this crazy over-the-top, like, you know, the menu is like three pages long and like they have chili dogs, but they have foie gras and they have burgers and they're open till three in the morning and just nuts.

36:01So on top of that, the photo department separately finds these old postcards and in the magazine, it's this woman like laying out totally naked in the dining room, which is how they promoted themselves professionally back then. And you just think, okay, well, this is going to work. These two puzzle pieces are definitely connected. I mean, it's sold by sex. It's definitely the postcard is memorable. But there's definitely like there's feminine. There's like a feminist movement to have a place that single women felt safe and comfortable to be together. I mean, maybe that's a mystery. You know, I can't speak to what it really was.

36:35I don't know how empowering it really was. I mean, having seen that postcard, I'm not sure that I would necessarily put it as the big feminist movement. But it was certainly a time in an era and in talking to people who were there. And in addition, it was a restaurant where New York Magazine had written like a 12-page cover story about it in the 70s. So we went into the archives, read this whole story. And it really was just a time when people's inhibitions were really beginning to drop, when debauchery was sort of like understood to be the norm, and people were much freer with their indiscretions, I would say.

37:16Yeah, and they also did an incredible amount of cocaine. We have to talk about the subtext of it. But that hasn't changed. It hasn't changed. you're right I'm not trying to be like prudent think the 70s was different than now because like yeah of course but like this 1978 New York City like we've seen the movies like it is definitely an energy and vibe I mean you don't name a restaurant Maxwell's plum without some sort of foreign substance influencing your decision I love that so I want to ask you is there a restaurant or two after going through all these this copy and looking at these images you know for me just reading it I was like I'm physically there it's that's why the real talent of your publication.

37:53But are there any restaurants that you just absolutely want to transport to? I have a couple myself. Well, tell me yours. Oh, you want me to start? Yeah, you start. I'll start it a little bit. I would say one-fifth in 1979, Keith McNally, young Keith McNally working there. Same era as Maxwell's Plum, but also a little bit maybe more downtown and perhaps starting this foodism culture that the 80s would bring in a celebrity chef but also kind of like this this i don't know like i i just read a little bit about it in your magazine read a little bit on the internet as well i just felt like that was the energy the other one would be kate's joint in 1998 and i and i'm gonna ask you about timing because it didn't quite fit into your timing remit but i would love to go to kate's and maybe maybe more like 96 but i think that in both those situations it's about the people there you know like one fifth it's like it was oysters and steak tartare yeah and um you know the captains wear tuxedo tails yeah but the beauty of it is it's like you have anna wintour who's still at new york magazine at the time when she's a regular right keith mcnally was like a busboy then he's then he's working the oyster station then he is the gm briefly um lynn his first wife is there uh before they go to odeon and so it is a perfect example of a place where if we were locked into writing about the food or like how some place had been you know culinarily influential it might not have made the cut but as soon as you're talking about the scene and the group and the people who are there in this energy where like Patti Smith who doesn't even really know that she's a celebrity yet is there as a regular uh you know that is like such a good example of like where you want to be in this package the whole time So unbelievably well said and you just nailed it.

39:44I think it's actually ushering this movement where restaurants are places to be seen versus the actual culinary aptitude there. But even beyond wanting to be seen, it's a place where you want to be comfortable. I mean, that was what we found over and over again. There was a line in this intro that Matthew wrote about, you know, New York had always been a tavern town, whereas Paris had been the culinary capital. And we are still sort of that tavern town. Like we are the city that we work in our restaurants. We live in our restaurants. And so you want a place that if you are going to become a regular where you are comfortable and where you can just sort of like relax and chill and not worry about the chef's vision all the time.

40:25Obviously, there's a place for that. And I love, you know, WD-50 is like my favorite restaurant of all time. Amazing. But. Amazing. Is that your pick? For my favorite restaurant of all time? No, your place that you'd want to go to. Well, yeah. Yeah, I mean, if I could go back, selfishly, if I could go back to like WD-50 or Franny's, both of which are now closed, but were just happened to be my favorites, then yeah, absolutely, I would want to go back there. But if we're talking about, you know, places from the package, there's a piece that Madeline Coleman wrote about an art collective in Chinatown that would meet and was just sort of like the beginning of, you know, they said that they didn't talk about art, but it was nevertheless sort of the beginning of this collective and these ideas.

41:04And it's like, yeah, of course you want to be a fly on the wall for those conversations. Of course you want to see Malcolm X at 22 West, you know, calling in interviews and working on the autobiography. And just like you want to be in all of these places. But the reason you want to be in all these places is because of the people. I think that there aren't, you know, there aren't like dishes that I wish I could have had. Well, that's the beauty of this package. You're not talking about the food. It's not really. And that's why this package is so tightly conceived and works. It's like it's about the people in community.

41:41For me, it's Kate's joint, too, because I just feel in the mid 90s, it's like just the beginning of Giuliani. The East Village has changed dramatically and crack has left. And there's a lot of controversy around that. And then, you know, Avenue B is starting to have like a little bit of a scene. You've got Jonathan Larson there. You've got like this era of the East Village is like Bohemian East Village and not Crack East Village. and I just want to like step foot in Kate's joint. Yeah, we have a piece, we actually have a piece coming up also just on the website that was, didn't fit into the magazine, which is all about Odessa and just like what Odessa, how it served the East Village in the 80s and just what it was.

42:19And it's the same thing. It's like, you just want to be there surrounded by the people. I love that. You tracked down Florent, who I've mentioned on the show incorrectly, I think three times because it's come up, that he lived in Florida. I didn't know he lived in Brooklyn. And I literally emailed him the night I read that he was in Brooklyn. He's not responded, but I would love to have him on the show. But why is Florent so important? I feel like that, to me, is an important restaurant for this community building element that you're talking about. This is absolutely the kind of restaurant where, okay, so much has been written about Florent.

42:52It is so legendary. People talk about it constantly. Rightly so, too. Absolutely, absolutely. But you don't want to... just rehash information that people already know, whereas at the same time, you don't want to do a disservice to it and just completely leave it out. So this is where the who really fits in. So you start to just talk, okay, let's talk to the people who are regulars. Let's talk to the people who are there. We know all these writers. And I will say, one of the perks of working at New York Magazine is that the infrastructure is built for things like this. And because we have such a huge net of, you know, we have such a huge like roster of writers who aren't food writers, who aren't restaurant writers and there's so many different worlds and cultures that they touch on.

43:34You know, we can reach out to all of these different people that I think otherwise we just wouldn't have access to. I mean, you've got Chris Bananos who like absolutely is like your historical fabric. He does the Instagram with old copies and old covers. Do you know Chris? I don't know Chris at all. I just know him as a person who clearly loves your publication and clearly when you call him, I would imagine for these issues. Yeah, if you read the issue, Chris's name is all over it because he really is. He's a walking New York magazine and New York City history book. And nobody loves the city more than Chris does.

44:13And it is absolutely like he is great to have on staff and understands the voice of the magazine and just like it's in his blood. So he touches like everything that happens there. But with Florent, it's, you know, it's an example of like, how do we cover a place that people know about but offer something new and surprising? Lucky for us, this is a situation where Florent is still around, you know, which is not the case with the restaurants from the 40s and the 30s. And so we can just call him and we can talk to him and we can kind of get a sense of like what were the best days and nights there.

44:48You decide to cut it off at like 2007. Maybe there's a little bit. But why is the 2010s? 20s makes sense. You know, it's too modern. But the 10s like does not get any airtime. To me, it's an unspoken comment on the decade. But I could be wrong. I think you might be reading too much into it. Partly it is just the perils of magazine making. You know, you have 45 pages. So what are we going to put in those 45 pages? And with the 2010s, you know, it's like we were looking for that little spark of like nostalgic joy that you get immediately when you see something. And as we were talking about the 2010s, which is not to take anything away from the restaurants, especially in New York.

45:31I mean, this is when you have the first Teresi and it's still like a sub shop. You have Mission Chinese. You have Pak Pak. You have Roberta's in its prime. I mean, there's a lot going on. You can center them places, it sounds like. Absolutely. Roberta's would have been one I would have been like, yeah. That's just me. Because the way they built that restaurant in Bushwick was – but that's just me. Absolutely. You know, and it's not like by, you know, not having them in this package, it's not like we're knocking them. But it just it felt a little too new to really jog that like, oh, yeah, this is great.

46:03Like, you know, you see a photo and it kind of just looks like a photo from now. Yeah. And you. Well, they're wearing like all over prints and probably wearing like like really bad, like hyphy hoodies and stuff. I'm sorry I cut you off. But, yeah, I just didn't make that joke. No, no. I mean, it's like, but it just, you know, when we do another one of these in 20 years, that'll be the first thing we do. Okay. So that's my next question. I want to ask you, in 50 years, and this issue, I mean, Alan, you got to do this, like, with some regularity. It's such a, I mean, I love it. People are talking about it, too.

46:38But in 50 years, a current restaurant that's operating now, what are you writing about? Well, I mean, I think it's the same thing. It's like what fascinated us with the old places was the scene. So, of course, they're going to be the institutions. I promise you that in 50 years, people will still be talking about Peter Luger, will still be talking about Keene's. But where is the creative energy right now that is going to take over and be a movement? And you look at a place like, say, Scars, for example, and I think that Scar has done such a great job of building a community around that restaurant and building a very specific type of creative energy around that restaurant that people are going to remember what it was like to go to Scars and to wait in the line at the old Scars or to go to, you know, I think Flynn McGarry is another chef who has really been able to kind of like not curate his audience, but does have something, you know, he's tapping into something bigger than just his wine bar.

47:40You're buying some McGarry stock. I don't know if I would say, you asked me what we're going to be talking about. I don't know if I would say I'm buying his stock necessarily, but, you know, I keep it at an arm's length, but he is, you know, you go to that restaurant and there is a group of people there who are going to be doing great things in the next 10 or 20 years. No, I'm kidding. And I think it's a really smart decision to mention Flynn. And I think like I wonder if we'll be talking about the first, you know, New York location of Sweetgreen. Unlike, you know, in the Flatiron when people used to line up for Sweetgreen.

48:14I hope that that chains – I hope that people look back on salad chains, all salad chains, and kind of think, well, that was a moment in time. Yeah, man. You said it. That's definitely – I would expect that from you. you know you're a local guy i feel like like being a food editor in new york magazine with the new york in the title you're a local guy like you like local restaurants i think what i like is a clear point of view and a big creative swing because there are so many people here you know you can get away with doing things here that you probably can't get away with doing other places and it's okay to take a chance.

48:55I love it. We've talked a lot and I love having you in and I really want Tammy and Chris and Matthew to come back because, again, big fans here of what you're doing at New York Magazine. It really sets the conversation. I feel like you really understand what's happening in six months and 12 months and we look to you for your knowledge. I want to ask you this kind of important question and I think you probably think about this, which is how do you view like the escalating price of dining out in New York City? Everything gets more expensive as you live in New York. Obviously, we've lived here a long time.

49:29You've lived here your whole life. And I feel like right now it's expensive as ever. And it's really sticker shock city for most people. And you have to think about this with what you're doing every day, which is covering the restaurant scene in New York. I guess the question is, is how do you negotiate it for a diner? Like, how do you think about a diner? And how do you think about the way we dine out? Should we be dining out less and better? Should we just be fighting against price hikes and offering criticism? Like, I don't have any answers. I would like to get your take. I mean, yeah, it is expensive to eat out.

50:10I mean, it is nuts at a lot of places. But I think it's two things. One, inflation is happening. That is just out of control. Two, I do think that prices were sort of artificially low even before the pandemic and that a correction was headed our way no matter what, because we've seen now why they were artificially low. I mean, like exploiting labor, just free labor, complete disregard for employee welfare or taking advantage of purveyors, whatever it was that really brought the costs way down, just eliminating every single creature comfort in a restaurant. It costs money to do things the right way.

50:53It's expensive. and, you know, if you look at old menus, which I've been spending a lot of time doing lately, the prices at like jams in the 80s, you look at them and they read like a 2010 menu before you even factor in inflation. And so I think what we're seeing is sort of a correction back to where it should have been previously anyway. That doesn't make it feel any better when you go out and it just like annihilates your wallet. But my feeling is that this is just the price of doing business. I don't know anyone who owns a good, independent, standalone restaurant and is getting rich off of it.

51:33And these people are squeezed at every turn. And they are really good at sort of hiding the final price. You know, you look at a menu. It's a bunch of different small plates. It's, you know, wine and cocktails and everything. And then you get the bill at the end. So they're good at that. But I don't think anyone's like fleecing anyone. And if people leave your restaurant feeling good about themselves and feeling happy, they're going to go back. And so just like it always happens, the people who are good at this are going to figure out how to do it. They're going to figure out a price point that works.

52:07They're going to figure out the little tricks that they need to do. And they're going to make people happy. You know, you go to Sailor in Fort Greene, for example, a very popular restaurant. Tough to book. Yeah, April Bloomfield. Yeah, because there's like eight seats. I know. Dave Stolman, April Bloomfield. And when it first opened, we all were sitting around. And I think the line that Matthew used in his review was that it was suspiciously affordable, which really stuck with me because you looked at the prices and you thought, yeah, this is like not bad. So what's really going on here? And, you know, for this beautiful corner space on like a prime, busy street in a very bougie neighborhood.

52:46And it just, you know, the smart operators figure it out, you know, and I think that you just have to sort of like vote with your wallet as the saying goes and find the places that you feel good about the value proposition. Do you feel also that there's a, I mean, really get well said. So I totally agree with all that. I think it's really, really good sentiment. And I agree it's sticker shock all the time. And you will vote if you feel like you're getting ripped off and not go there. Do you also think that there's maybe a changing dynamic of the diner in New York? Just the idea that there are just like an X amount of diners with unlimited funds or very, very healthy budgets to dine out.

53:24And that's what's allowing some of these restaurants to actually survive with these prices. You're definitely seeing the like mid-priced, ambitious, but like not crazy bistro. That's the genre that is sort of disappearing to some degree because that's where they're getting squeezed. So everything is either trying to be more affordable, more high volume, or just like boys balling out. Right. Caviar and everything, cocktails, wine, whatever. Well, you know, whatever it is that sort of inflates the check. And I think that there's only such an appetite for that, you know. I mean, I think it's already starting to feel stale, like the caviar supplements and the like the TikTok everything.

54:08And the – Oh, we haven't even gone there. But it is. And, you know, the tastes just change and people are going to get bored and these places aren't going to get written about because we're bored of them. And the next thing will arrive. Before we get to the last section, one more question. What do you want, Alan? What do you seek? I ask people in book publishing this all the time, booksellers, like, what book do you want? Like, what's a book that you – what is a concept that you're like, man, I wish we could write about this concept? I've seen it maybe in your travels or just theoretically you've had in your brain.

54:43What's the concept that you want? For a restaurant? Yeah, man. You know, it's not up to me to decide. We need to see a few big creative swings. I think that the market and, you know, whatever is going on, you know, social media, it doesn't necessarily reward that. And if you don't hit it out of the park, it really punishes you. And so I think people have been afraid, understandably. These projects are really expensive. And it's a lot of money and a lot of debt that you absorb if you don't succeed. But it's like, how much more shrimp cocktail can we eat? How much more steak tartare can we eat? Like, let's see a few big creative swings.

55:30I love it. It seems like one that comes to mind is Tatiana that's worked. Like, that's a big creative swing. Absolutely. You look at that. That is a clear point of view. That is a very talented person. That is a huge restaurant. And it's like, yeah, do more of that. Maybe New York is good on wine bars right now. Yeah, man. It seems like the wine bar bistro movement, the middle is kind of, yeah, it's almost like a wine bar in a box, which I think is like the biggest diss you can give any operator, but it just happens so much. But if somebody's good and they know what they're doing and they have a point of view, they can work within that framework and make it very good.

56:09But it does get, you know, the more that these places open, the more that there's like a place called like glue glue on every block in Brooklyn and Queens and Manhattan. It's like, you know, it's like it gets harder to cut through the noise. How do you stay young? How do you like tap in with Z? How do you tap in with Alpha? I mean, I'm joking, but also it's like kind of important. and you've got a staff that's diverse in age and race and it's good that you have voices. But you don't have a 21-year-old on your staff, do you? Maybe you do. How do you like that? I mean, the magazine has a huge staff and people who are much smarter and cooler than I am who don't cover food, but you use them as sounding boards for ideas.

56:51The magazine is a place where everyone is very free to talk about how to make stories and ideas better and you just absorb that. and there are people who are in their 20s and their 30s and you want to know what they think. And the day that I was sitting in a conference room and realized that I was the old person in the meeting was a real tough day, but you just have to sort of recalibrate your thinking when that happens. Good attitude, Alan. I love it. On This is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.

57:23Are you ready? I am ready. The best fruit? Pineapple. I love it. Have you had it in Hawaii ever? Yes. That is like, yeah, that's the one. But I was a kid. Yeah. I was young. So I haven't even had the best, and it's still the best, so I can't even imagine. The worst vegetable? Sweet potato. Interesting. Like even roasted? Especially roasted. Wow. What's it offering? What's it given to me that I can't get from something else? I really defend vegetables because usually I would say with miso butter, if it's like perfectly roasted and like Japanese style. But that's because the miso butter is good.

57:53Agree. Not the sweet potato. Fair enough. I'm into it. I like the statement. The best dessert. tiramisu at Cafe Spaghetti interesting they know what they're doing another point of view another strong sensibility strong point of view yes great call your favorite American fast food chain Rally's just for the french fries or Popeye's oh great choices favorite cookbook of all time the Franny's cookbook because I can make everything in it and sort of feel like I'm back at the restaurant I love it okay loaded question but you gotta answer it Favorite New York City restaurant right now? Montague Diner because my five-year-old and my three-year-old are obsessed.

58:33And so it becomes real easy. And it's great. They just like nailed it. I love that. It's the clear statement. Do you have a favorite new cookbook discovery? You know what? I'm actually, I love Elise Whitney. And so I'm very excited for her dip cookbook. I haven't seen it. So I don't know that it qualifies as a discovery. But I do really want to see how she can sustain it through a whole cookbook. Yeah. Elise is so talented. With a great fresh voice. Love it. favorite city outside America to visit for food? Paris, but that's boring, and even though it's true. It's true and boring, but... You know, anywhere in Emilia-Romagna, too.

59:07Let's say Parma. Parma. Oh, yes. Or Bologna. Or Bologna. Bologna, man. Yeah. I'm with you. We did a whole Emilia-Romagna issue here at Taste. I love that area. A cuisine you would like to learn more about? Any kind of, like, Chinese cooking at home. I just don't do enough of it, and I would like to be better at it. or I would also like to not suck at baking, but I do suck at baking. And I'd like to just get to like adequate. Adequate. What's the one baking grail that you have? Just like a cake from like being able to bake a cake without looking at a recipe and follow 10 ,000 instructions. You just need like a single bowl cake.

59:41Well, I just want to be good enough that I can do it without thinking too hard about it. But it really shuts me down. My wife is the baker. She's excellent. So I don't really have much reason to, but I would like to get there. Last one, your favorite sandwich. So our office just moved to the financial district a few months ago, which is a neighborhood that I had not really spent a lot of time in. And Pasillo, the Italian panini restaurant or stand shop down there, is my new favorite. And so I know I just mentioned bologna, but I'm going to go with their bologna sandwich also, which is mortadella, fresh mozzarella, and then sun-dried tomato, very oily sun-dried tomato all over it.

1:00:22on the bread. The oil soaks in. You wrap it up. It gets better as you travel with it. That's all you need in a sandwich. Thank you so much for joining us, Taste. Thank you for having me. It's been great.

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