421: Charleston Isn't Ordinary with Mike Lata

25:10I thought you were going to reveal the secret. You paused for a second. In the event that I, you know, ever get off my ass and finish a book. Wait, you haven't done a book? No, I have not. Wait, this is nuts. My research actually did not find a book, but then I did not write that down in my notes. You haven't done a book. I have not. We'll get to that at the end, but continue the story. Fast forward, this dish becomes incredibly popular, and the margins are great. So we figured, you know, let's keep it going. And we ran the lamb. We had the lamb program for at least two or three years, so it was relevant that way.

25:41But then after the lamb, you know, that purveyor, things changed, and we stopped buying the lamb. But we would then, you know, we're still cutting beef. We're still cutting pork. We're still creating shrimp. We're still creating grind. So let's just keep the bolognese going. So now we'll make it out of beef, pork, beef and pork. I think currently last week we had a duck bolognese. And one thing about fig that we've always really stood by is that if we lose passion for the dish in the kitchen, then we take it off the menu. But the gnocchi has always been one of those dishes that like you also have to embrace repetition and you have to embrace the mundane, right?

26:18The mundane tasks. And in order to be a chef, you have to be okay with doing the same thing. It's a smooth brain activity. You need to like do repetition in your life because the rest of it is chaos. Right. So too much chaos creates, you know, just stress and unhappiness. Right, right. Very cathartic. Not trying to be that guy. To roll the gnocchi. Not that podcast guy. But I mean, I think you're so right. Like repetition. You probably put some young cooks on the gnocchi too, right? Just to make sure they know what they're doing. Yeah. Well, you know, you got to be careful, right? Because this thing is done.

26:48It takes a couple of hours every day to roll the gnocchi out. We don't have the same kind of labor pool you might have in a big market where you can get some kind of, you know, where you have prep cooks, you know, that just are happy to roll gnocchi, right? So we have to pass it around the kitchen to make sure everybody, A, can do it and B, understands how important it is. And now the dish, you know, and honestly, I mean, I don't want to oversell the dish. It's really delicious. Yeah. And it's a must have. But I don't want to, you know. You have a lot more going on. But the cooks need to understand that if a dish has created, so it's still relevant to our cooking.

27:25It's still delicious. And it still makes people extremely happy. And the margins on it are great. And we need that because other things on the menu are very expensive for us to produce. So it's a necessity for the business to have a dish like this on the menu. And then the expectations of the guests that come in, like I've heard about this gnocchi. I've got to have the gnocchi. Well, you can't ever fall asleep on the production of it or on the execution of it. So in times where the cook is making 50 gnocchi a night, we still stand over that cook and we touch every gnocchi when it hits the pass.

27:56And we say, you know, you've overcooked them a little bit. Yeah, that's the key. Or, you know, the sauce looks a little dry and we have to remember that that's what we do, right? And what a great reminder as the menu changes so often that we're reminded that every plate of food that goes out to every guest has expectations to meet. And when you have such repetition day in and day out with the hamster wheel of a dish, you have to remind yourself, like, let's not fall into that assembly line mentality. Let's craft each dish every day. So there's a lot of lessons in that for us. Let me ask you about the ordinary.

28:29How do you split your time and your kind of energy between the two restaurants? I mean, the ordinary, it seems it's more bar driven, I guess, in some ways, but it all has a full menu. And, of course, Fig has the classic staples, but you're also writing recipes and writing menus daily. So that's a lot you're putting out every day in any 365. I'm sure Charleston's a real 365 kind of city, right? Yeah, yeah. So the idea behind both menus is that every day we're putting the best product that we can find on the menu. All right. So and that usually falls into the seafood and produce category. The meats are pretty static, right?

29:07certain times of year things change, but it's more of our whim to change the meat proteins. But so during service, you'll see us start off with a snowy grouper that will turn into an American red snapper in the middle of service because, you know, the boat only brought us X amount of pounds and we start service off with 10 or 15, and then we have to back it up with another protein. Produce-wise, if you get like, let's say, the first of the season collards come out of the ground and they're so tender that we make a salad with them. Well, two or three or four weeks later, those collards are too tough to make a salad.

29:43So we have to reconcile the menu every day to make sure that the dishes that we're cooking with the product that we're getting still make sense. And so there's always that reconciliation at the end of every night. Okay, what do we love? What do we didn't love? What needs to change? What's the runway on these dishes? We have to start thinking about how to replace this one dish in four or five days. So that DNA is baked into at both restaurants, which is a real time-consuming effort for us. Yeah, you don't have to do that. And I think the operators listen to the show and some of the folks will recognize this because we have a lot of industry folks listen to the show.

30:17But also for listeners, some of your favorite restaurants, they have the same menu all the time and no shots. I'm just saying you're doing it the hard way, this way. It's the only way. When I open The Ordinary, and I agree, no shots. It's anybody that can produce a good experience, however they can is kudos to them. But when I opened The Ordinary, I said, you know, fig is so intense. We would get all these deliveries, 30 purveyors every day, decipher or, you know, go through the product and decide how to apply what product to what dish, et cetera, et cetera. So when I opened The Ordinary, first of all, when you asked me what kind of restaurant fig is, all I can say is like, hey, listen, if I was a musician, I would be a singer, songwriter.

30:58And that's the expression of fig. It's like the things that I'm interested in, the path that I've taken, the best that I come up with every day, that's what we do there. And I wanted to open a second restaurant that was a one-word answer. So it's a seafood restaurant. But it was a celebration of our local seafood. And our philosophy there is local first, regional second, domestic third, never imported. So we don't import any seafood. And we really focus on what's available in the southeast at times of the year. There's not a lot available depending on catch regulations or limits. Do you have a bycatch culture?

31:28Oh, absolutely. In Charleston. So we have a captain that goes out, calls us from a sat phone, tells us what he has. That's a whole other podcast. So bycatch, just to be clear, is kind of like the fish that you're not focusing on that just arrives part of the process. And you kind of get a wild card, right, of species, right? Correct. And that really has taken its own turn because the way the fisheries are regulated, the guy that I'm talking about, Mark Marhefka, he's a snapper and grouper fisherman. But at times of the year, he can't go out for snapper and grouper. So he has to find an alternative catch.

32:03So over the years, we've looked at different species and done quite a lot of work taking species that, you know, the word trash fish is pretty common. And that just refers to fish that don't have any value to like to wholesalers or consumers. So amberjack falls in that category on the East Coast. And there's a whole bunch of varieties of jack in that category. But at one point, triggerfish was that, you know. So we would just, you know, Mark is such an amazing fisherman. And the way he holds his fish post-harvest gives us the best seafood, you know, you could possibly imagine. So whatever he catches, we'll take a hard look at over the years of what we could sell.

32:41And so we've introduced, now Amber Jack's an amazing seller for us. All the varieties of Jack's are. One in particular is called Banded Rudderfish. And it's like a wild hamachi, like you'd get in the West Coast. Yeah, that's a better term than the rudderfish. Yeah, yeah, but we'll put Banded Rudderfish. Sure, why not? It's something to talk about. And, you know, jolt head porgies and sheep's head and like all these different species. Charleston has now the reputation of like people expect to have to be challenged a little bit with what species. And I think you put your hands into the into the to the servers to really, you know, you have to educate the servers, obviously, but you have to build trust with the clientele.

33:16And I think once they buy in to whatever you can sell anything. Yeah. Let me ask you, 2024, when you think about Charleston yourself, what comes to mind, the restaurant scene? What comes to mind? What are some words? What are some, I can even say restaurants that come to mind that aren't yours that you want to call out? Because I feel my time down there was 72 hours of just amazing work. And I'll link to the episode in the show notes where I talk about my many meals there. What about you? So, you know, I think the city has really punched through a ceiling in the last four or five years. Yeah. And what, you know, our lack of, well, we're having an increasing amount of people coming in from out of town to catch the Charleston, you know, wave.

34:06But we are full of independent restaurants. We're full of unique expressions. You know, we've never been a culturally diverse, you know, restaurant scene as far as like ethnic food is concerned. But that's starting to change. We have Filipino restaurants. We have a couple of amazing like Gullah Geechee restaurants now, which obviously, you know, is native to our. But it's being done in a way that's shining a new light on that cuisine. But what, you know, so I mean, the words that I have are like it's vibrant. It's ambitious. I think it's concentrated both in its quality and proximity to each other.

34:49So, you know, you can spend entire weekends in different parts of this small peninsula just getting lost in the restaurants that are there. And I think because it's so concentrated that we all kind of know what we're doing. We all kind of buy from the same people. And we all are competitive in the sense where there was a time when it wasn't that competitive and you could expect to be busy all year long. Now it's like there's so many restaurants. There's so many primetime reservations available at good places. You have to become more compelling. So and I think that there's a lot of ambitious restaurants and restaurants that come to mind that are doing that kind of work.

35:24and everybody knows them now, I think, is Chubby Fish and a newcomer, Vern's. I think there's Cultura, which is the Filipino restaurant that I referenced. There's a bunch of places. Of course, I'm drawing a blank. I love Cultura. It'll flow out, I'm sure, once it hits. But Cultura had a great brunch there, and I love to go back for dinner. ferns is the by my hands down my favorite meal outside of fig i think you guys both do such different work it's hard to kind of compare the two but i thought um but what they're doing um still thinking about that that orange creamsicle dessert which is quite genius yeah um and then um chubby fish i tried to get in but man no luck but but but i think you're naming three but there's so many other spots the gulgichi cuisine movement um in terms of the way gulgichi Chi cuisine is being presented in different formats is cool.

36:21And I just think it's a town that deserves a real visit. I mean, this isn't really – this is not sponsored. I'm just saying straight up, like, you should make yourself way to Charleston and really focus on the food. I heard there's a porchetta stand happening now. It's a new porchetta shop in a really – I would think a challenging location. Yeah. And it's doing great. Yeah. I'll give you – you paused a bit. Maybe two more restaurants you want to call out. I just love this idea of calling out restaurants from your point of view. Okay, Sushi Wa. Oh, cool. I don't know that one. It's a little omakase restaurant that they, I think, have the reputation of being the best, if you were to say that, the best sushi restaurant in town.

37:04Obstinate Daughter on Sullivan's Island is a real fun restaurant to go to. Yeah. And I think that restaurant, the Gullah Geechee restaurant, I think it's called Bintu. Oh, Bintu. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Bintu. And I have not. Yeah, yeah. It's good. Good one. Yeah, no, I haven't been there either. And Brooks Wrights. I got to call out Little Jacks. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. Brooks is an alum of ours and a brilliant guy. Yeah, really smart restaurant. Little Jacks, Melfi's, Leon's. Love them all. They're great. All fun places to go for sure. Yeah, it's really, you know, walking around the neighborhoods, I feel I just love immersing myself in Charleston.

37:40And I've been there a few times. But this past trip, I just really enjoyed. I mean, I got to hang with Rodney Scott. And like, to me, that is. Which is worth mentioning, right? Rodney Scott's. Yeah, of course. Rodney Scott's barbecue. Lewis's barbecue. And then, of course, I forgot the one that is the most embarrassing. My chef of 15 years at Fagot's has just opened a restaurant called Lowland. And he's doing some great work there as well. I mean, we haven't even talked about barbecue, which I think is a testament to Charleston. It has such a deep roots in barbecue. And I love Rodney's work. But, you know, they were like 46 minutes into his conversation.

38:12We don't even talk about it because that's how diverse the city is. And I'm over the top about Charleston. So I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Yeah, thank you. On This Is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning tastes. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Mike, are you ready? I am. The best fruit. I eat more bananas than anything. But what really sets me on fire is amazing citrus. Yeah. And do you have a season? I mean, are you getting it from? We have a lot of local citrus. You have a local citrus, right? Yeah, we have a lot of local citrus in Charleston.

38:48Depending on the season, obviously, we have some cold-hardy varieties, but if we have a bad winter, it's pretty rough. But citrus, do you have like pomelo? Are you tangerines? Oh, I like it all. But, you know, I think what I, you know, what I think is really fun about citrus is that I think when you're eating it at home, you know, you, you know, you might peel it. But to segment, to have a bowl of segmented citrus on, you know, on a piece of fish or even a piece of meat or as a salad with beets or whatever. I just, for some reason, it's like, it's like the first time you had watermelon without seeds, right?

39:26It's like, it's so luxurious to eat. And when it's supreme. Four or five. I mean, we've got, you know, amazing varieties of limes and oranges and grapefruits. And, you know, peaches are also amazing, obviously. The worst vegetable? Brussels sprouts. Okay. Wow. Hands down. Wow. Even the better ones, the ones that have improved them? Can they be made well? Absolutely. Are they always caramelized? And like the caramelized brassica movement, it's so strong and bitter. It's like I can only have a bite or two. What about cabbage? So cabbage is one of my favorite. That's not in Nebraska. It's one of my favorite vegetables.

40:05Okay. And we're getting varieties of cabbage in Charleston, Charleston Wakefield cabbage, for example. Yeah, yeah. That is so sweet and so tender, it redefines what you think about cabbage. All right. So you're talking like Brussels and maybe cauliflower you're maybe down on too? No. Brussels sprouts. The texture and the way that, you know, like if I had Brussels sprouts, first of all, we do have them locally sometimes. Yeah, yeah. But they're never – they're not – it's just like a ubiquitous – it's a ubiquitous vegetable that I think falls onto menus because it's relatively easy to prep in bulk.

40:32And I guess there's a market for it. There's an absolute market when you put bacon in and maybe some balsamic glaze in it. Exactly. It's like – well, then who cares what it is if it has bacon and balsamic on it, right? It just – to me, it's just – it's too – the Coke's the best flavor of a Brussels sprout. I think you'd have to cook it a little bit longer, try to find that perfect point where it's creamy enough with integrity to where you can bring out the sweetness of the cabbage, basically. And then, you know, liven it up with something more delicate. I love that. And by the way, I did not mean for cauliflower and cabbage to catch strays.

41:06Love them. Wasn't trying to conflate it. So being clear. The best dessert. So I'll just tell you, last night at Cafe Carmelini, we had a fior de latte ice cream. Yeah. And, you know, it's like at the end of a meal, right? So I guess the dessert is at the end of a meal. It's not like what I have at my house, right? Because I love cake. And when my wife makes cake, I just, for some reason, I love it more every day. But he had a Fjorda Latte ice cream with these frateau boi from Spain and a little drizzle of aged balsamic. But the texture of the ice cream was, I'm assuming he made it in a Paco Jet.

41:39It was just so light and so creamy and the perfect temperature. and at the end of a really big meal, that simple bite of luxury was, we all kind of thought like at the end of the meal, we were like, what was the best bite? And we just had the fuel. Yeah, it was a mic drop moment. Yeah, it was unbelievable. Your favorite American fast food chain. Okay, so I don't. I don't. My wife goes to Chick-fil-A, brings the kids and I appreciate Chick-fil-A. I think it's one of the most amazing business models I've ever seen. but I have the softest spot for egg McMuffins, sausage McMuffins, to be honest. Ooh, sausage, not egg.

42:17I mean, the sausage biscuit or the sausage McMuffin. Well, my go-to would be, it's always on the road, is that I would get one each egg and sausage McMuffin with egg, and I'd have both. I've kind of dwindled it down to, I just have the sausage McMuffin with egg, but to me, that is like, it's not as good as it used to be. They used to butter the, you know, it used to be a little bit better, but it still to me hits. At least they're cracking eggs in the restaurant. And I have a soft spot for McDonald's in general. It's the fast food chain that I grew up with. I mean, it's - We all have that. I'm from the Midwest.

42:50You're from the Northeast. These are our chains, McDonald's. I got you. Your favorite cookbook of all time. I think the easy answer for me is A Return to Cooking by Eric Repair. Yeah. And Michael Roman. Do you know the book? I do know the book and I know Eric. That's a really cool response and answer. It is the most original and well-executed book. What I love about it is they take Eric out of the Le Bernardin kitchen and the dishes that you'd expect at Le Bernardin and they go to four regions in the country and then cook the food from those regions. And spontaneously, there's writers, an artist that's sketching the food, Ruhlman's writing and Eric's cooking.

43:31And it seems, and I've talked to Michael Ruhlman about it and I said, how spontaneous was it? And he said, it was fairly spontaneous. And as a result, the dishes, I think, are unbelievable. Why no book for you? It's interesting. It's really interesting. There's a couple reasons. I work a lot. Yeah. And my goal in life has been to have a successful restaurant and to support my family with that restaurant. So I'm in the kitchens all the time. I'm in the restaurants all the time. And I just don't have time. I'm not going to lie to you. We've got a proposal that we're working on right now. Of course.

44:07And it's painfully slow. and it gives everybody heartburn in my life. It is a painful process. However, I've always also said from day one that I want to reflect and enjoy that process and not just pump out a book to pump out a book. I want to really reflect on the things that I've learned. And my perspective is professional kitchens. I mean, we cook at home all the time, and I understand the appeal and the need to cater to that market. But what I have in my head is like how to run a restaurant, How to build a team, how to identify variables and create systems to eliminate them, and how to produce a memory, create a memory for somebody that's dining with us.

44:49And that's my perspective, and that's what I would really like to talk about. So with this being said, you're in your kitchen all the time working. This trip to New York where we're at now must be a real treat, almost a vacation. I guess I want to get to where else are you going this trip? So I'm doing a project. So I consult for a private club on Kiowa called the Kiowa Island Club. And I oversee I'm the culinary consultant to that. I built a restaurant for them out there on the beach. And it was it was an amazing experience. And they've invited me to participate in a couple of new restaurants.

45:22And one of them is another beach club that we're putting together. And it's coastal Mexican, for lack of a better description. and so we originally had a few things in mind you know taquerias to go to but I'd always wanted to go to Empilon never been I've known I met Alex a few years ago the Charleston Food and Wine Festival and I really thought he was a bright guy and a really interesting character and I've kind of always wanted to go but never really pulled the trigger and I think the restaurant's got to be 10 years old but at least by now so with that in mind I told my wife I said let's go there this for lunch.

45:57And we went there for lunch yesterday and it was great. Yeah. I love that you mentioned it. I've gone on record. I had Alex on a couple of times. It is truly for, for Midtown Manhattan, hands down my favorite restaurant. And I love, you know, between, uh, the, the, the salsa program, you know, the, the way he brings dessert into full desserts were really good. Pretty great. Yeah. It's cool that you mentioned that. We had a, uh, we had a big day yesterday with food. Yeah. Um, that, so we loved it. Um, and honestly, you know, my expectations to like New York is tough. I think you have to have multiple locations to make a living.

46:29You know, I know that he's a super talented guy, but we walked in the door. I was like, hmm, did we pick the right place? Is this going to still kind of hit like it should? And it absolutely did. It was great. So then, yeah, we took a couple of hours off. I fell asleep and took a nap yesterday for the first time in 10 years, probably. And then went to Cafe Carmelini and we had a real big meal there. And so between those two, I was able to extract a bunch of fun inspiration. And then today we're going to a place, it's a Japanese restaurant that I actually because we didn't make any plans too far in advance I found on Resi knowing that we would be eating a lot last night I found Nami Nori oh right on, great call and it seemed like exactly what I wanted to and it's always nice because my love for seafood is so strong that anytime that we have an opportunity to have any sushi or Japanese cooking with seafood.

47:25I always glean something from that experience. Last one, your favorite sandwich. You know, the jambeau and beurre, maybe. Might be the best sandwich ever, but listen, I grew up eating sandwiches. And when I go back home, I have got to get a roast beef grinder from our local place, Pizza B's. I love that you call them grinders. Thank you very much. And it's got to have at least four tablespoons of mayonnaise on it. Yes! The bread, the bread is got to, so they build it cold, flash it in the oven just to get the meat hot but everything else is cold and they put the lettuce and tomato on the inside and maybe a little oil and vinegar and it's I don't know what I don't know if it's my memory that I've like created it but like to me it's like it's the best Mike Lotto this has been such a great conversation thank you so much for joining us this is Taste thank you for having me

48:22Hi, Matt. How are you doing? Eliza, I am. I'm so good right now. I'm in a good spot. Yeah, I'm thinking about a number between one and three. You always do that and you always I don't know how to respond. So I'm going to say three. I'm going to get three. It's a return of three things. It's three things. Yeah. What's your first thing? First thing is a terrific book that just published is called The Bartender's Pantry. It's by Jim Meehan, and Jim is the founder of PDT, a legendary bar in New York City. And he's also the author of a couple books, Meehan's Manual and the PDT book, which if you literally go to any cocktail bar anywhere, you'll see the spine of PDT peeking out from behind the bar.

49:03And, you know, this book is terrific. I recently had Jim in the studio to talk about the book, and that interview will be running later in the year. But Jim is such a meticulous writer and editor. And he has produced some of the, I would say, the best cocktail books around. And this one is no different. And really, this book is about not making cocktails per se, but building up the foundation of your bar, but also just thinking about drinking. I would say like it hews away from the spirit side of it, if that makes any sense. It's kind of a different approach. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to picture a bartending book that is lighter on the spirits and it seems more unusual, but I like that as a concept.

49:47Building your cocktail pantry is actually really important. And it's almost like cocktail making is a extension of the culinary movement and it is a culinary act. And I think he's doing this in a couple ways. And we talk about it a bit in our interview, but he's really deemphasizing the idea of like alcohol and spirits and getting drunk, frankly, and thinking of making a beautiful cocktail is like making a beautiful cake. It takes a really significant amount of setup. He's done a good job doing this in this book. And I really like Jim in that he's very open about how the cocktail industry has changed over the past two decades.

50:31Cool. I'll have to check it out. So what's your first thing? My first thing is that I went to Kisa for dinner recently. Have you been there yet? I have wanted to go. Please tell me all the details. We've not talked about this. Kisa, for those who are listening and haven't heard about this, is a newish restaurant, a Korean restaurant on the Lower East Side here in New York. And the concept is kind of that it's like a taxi driver restaurant, right? Yeah, absolutely. In Korea, there's, you know, obviously a lot of taxis in Seoul and big cities like Busan. And certainly there's a culture around quick food and cheap food.

51:01Yeah. So their concept is that it's a set menu. It's around like 30, 32 bucks, I think. and you pick your protein. They do like spicy squid. They do bibimbap. They do spicy pork and bulgogi. Maybe one more that I'm not remembering right now. And then it comes with all kinds of different panchang, like kimchi and rice and like little skewers that have a hot dog with like a rice cake on either side that I really liked. And it's a really fun place. I thought it was really affordable for like the amount of food that you're getting and really delicious. And I also like at the end of your meal, They give you a quarter to put into the little drinks dispenser by the door.

51:41They have like an old school, like you put in the quarter and then the cup drops down from the machine automatically. And then you can pick like a black bean latte, hot chocolate or coffee, which kind of seems like what you would maybe have like in the break room or like in an actual taxi driver place in Seoul. I haven't been to Korea, so maybe you can check me on that. But I thought everything about it was just very thoughtful. I think ending a meal with a warm drink at either like an AM PM or at like in a machine is absolutely accurate. And what I like about this restaurant, the idea of it, and it's by a group, right?

52:14That's run by the folks who have C is for Charlie. Correct. Right. So C is for Charlie has been known to really think of Korean cuisine in a really cool and creative way and has brought the vibes downtown from Koreatown on 32nd Street. and I like the idea that Korean food in New York is even expanding further and it's going into these new concepts that marry the taxi driver food culture with beckbong too. Beckbong is part of it as well which is like many side dishes and using this idea of the set menu too which I think is really exciting. Yeah, I liked all of that. Also, I'll just note that the waitstaff is all very kind and well-dressed and just cute and so I have a couple of single friends that I was like, maybe you should go look like Judy at Kesa because the crowd in general there is just like a really fun vibe.

53:04What's your next one? My next thing is we were in Chicago recently and I have to say I've thought about this deeply, but my God, the pizza head at Millie's Pizza in a Pan has really blown me away. It's my second time in three years I've been there. And Robert Molesky will be on the show soon and we'll talk all about his invention. But I wanted to get it out now because I know a lot of our listeners are traveling this summer in Chicago, is a very popular summer destination. So Millie's Pizza in a Pan, it's a pan pizza, as the name suggests. It's inspired by Bert's Pizza, which is a legendary suburban pizza spot that Robert went to many times over and kind of really was inspired by.

53:45There's two locations now for Millie's. There's one in the Uptown neighborhood, kind of near Northside, and then there's Berwyn, which is out in the suburbs. Now, I have to say, now, Clayton, I'm not sure if you're mic'd up, if you want to jump in because you were there with me. But the craigslist.org, that's the name of the pie, with papadou peppers, sausage, mushrooms, red, onions, and tomatoes with a little bit of ricotta, not too much, was I love sweet peppers. Clayton, what did you think of that pie? Yeah, I thought it was great. I mean, the peppers really did send it to another stratosphere, I think.

54:16Agree fully. I think that it was a really cool idea to put these really kind of these sweet pickled peppers on it. He also has something called Untitled No. 1, which is pepperoni, jalapeno, fresh whole milk, mozzarella, and these glorious tomatoes. I really enjoy what he's doing there. And late breaking news, I just checked the menu this morning. He is doing a tavern pizza, which he has not done ever, but it's snuck onto the menu. So Millie's Pizza in a Pan is now doing tavern style. Wow. You heard it here maybe first. Maybe first. So what's your next one? My second thing is that it's finally warm enough for me to be making granita as my go-to dessert again.

54:54And I just want to remind folks in case you haven't made granita just how easy it is to be getting coffee or watermelon juice. I did it actually with the kind of pre-bagged passion fruit juice concentrate that they have at a lot of grocery stores here in New York. Honestly, I was just like, I need to use this before it goes bad in my fridge. But I just poured it into a little half sheet tray in my freezer and mixed it around as it started to freeze until it was all solid and then fluffed it up with a fork before it was time for dessert. And I layered it with a little bit of kind of sweetened Greek yogurt and then macerated berries from the market.

55:29And the like cool yogurt mixed with the icy granita is just to me such a good flavor texture contrast. So, yeah, I think it's time to make in granita. I'm loving that. So tell me about the sweetened yogurt. What are you doing there? That's intriguing to me. I just mixed a little bit of honey into the yogurt and just kind of like whipped it up with a fork so it felt a little fluffier. I didn't have any whipping cream on hand, but also sometimes I don't want it to be like quite that intense. But really, I'm excited because I have more of this granita in my freezer. Yeah, you have it like pre-made, so it's like a quick dessert.

56:00Yeah, and also a really good quick drink would be to just do a splash of mezcal over the top of the granita. Oh, wow. Party starts at your house. Yeah, yeah. Dang, mezcal in this. I never even thought about that. That's a really cool idea. I love ending a meal with like a little boozy dessert cocktail. That's fun. I think it's fun. Super fun for the summer. Super hot. What's your next thing? My last thing is I think hop water has not died. Meaning we didn't all drink Langanitas and realize that that's the only one we need and got burned out on it. Speaking truthfully for myself. There's more hop water out there in the world.

56:36Nothing against that brand. But I have two brands to call out. St. Elmo Hop Water. It's from the St. Elmo Brewery in Austin, Texas. They're doing a really terrific, I don't know the actual hop. I looked on the can, I couldn't find it, but it's not too astringent. It's really nice. And the other one is Hop Lark. Have you ever had Hop Lark? No, I've had Hop Tea and liked it. Yeah, Hop Tea. What's Hop Lark? Hop Lark is a Colorado brand. You can get it, it's wide national distribution. And I've been crushing those all summer. They have a tropical hops flavor that I think is really nice. And I'm not trying to be like a Bolia Langanitas.

57:10I think that that is a good brand. But they like were the first mover and everyone drank that and maybe got burned out. But think beyond it. Maybe think about all the different hop waters out there. It's a cool category that is quite fresh. It's a tropical one a lot. Yeah, I like hop water, hop tea. I'm excited to have more of it. What's your last one? My last one is that I went to the Horseshoe Crab Mating Festival in Rockaway Beach this past weekend. And I just want to talk about it. But I didn't eat the crabs, I should say, off the bat. Yeah. Does anyone eat the crabs? No, I don't think you really.

57:39They're not good eating, I would say. It's a horseshoe crab. There's not a lot of meat on them. Also, they're semi-protected because their blood is incredibly valuable, like$15 ,000 for a liter because it's used in medical drug research. So I would not advise that anyone is going out to the beach and cooking and eating the horseshoe crabs. but they come to shore during the new and full moons for mating when the water is higher. And the parks department was having this festival. So I went to that this past weekend. And really, like you see these little Roomba-like crabs bumping into each other all over the beach.

58:13It's very cute. And then afterwards, I just went to the Rockaways and went to Ripper's and had my first Ripper's burger on the boardwalk of the season. How was the weather? How was the water? It was beautiful. And it's funny because I think in New York, I sometimes forget how variable things can be just in the specific part of the beach that you're on, like the inlet that we were on for the horseshoe crabs. It was very breezy and kind of cold. And then we drove maybe 10 minutes and got out to Rockaway Beach proper. And it was sunny and beautiful. And kids were just like running up and down the beach.

58:43Everyone was selling nutcrackers. It was very summer in New York. I love that beach. Is Caracas still operating out there? Yeah, the Arepas place, they are. There's a good ceviche place out there too. I can't remember the name right now. but I do think like the experience of going to Ripper's and getting a burger and what they call beach juice which is frozen sangria is pretty good and a hot tip that I did is you can ask them to put a little bit of lime and tajin in the beach juice and then it's really good wow what a great spot and a great reminder if you're in New York even visiting you can take the train out there yeah you can take the train you can take the ferry is really nice out to the Rockaways if you know someone with a car and you can get them to take you, that's always a nice route as well.

59:25But I do think when people come and visit New York in the summer, it's easy to forget that you're on an island, that New York actually is a beach town. But I think between, you know, down in Brighton Beach or up in the Bronx or like down in the Rockaways, like it actually is very worth your time to go to the beach. A hundred percent agree. I love that New York beach culture. It's very unique and singular. It's Chicago beach culture is different. And of course, in Southern California, no one goes to the beach, correct? No, people go to the beach in California. Did you go growing up in Santa Monica?

59:55Yeah, because I was right there. So how could you not? But it's not the same as like schlepping out for the full day necessarily. I think what is fun about New York beach culture is how much like all of life is right on the beach. Like there's, I don't think in LA there are a lot of bars on the beach that you can go to in that kind of way. Or the food is like hot dog on a stick. Venice has like a vibe, of course, that there's like adjacent bars bars in that little stretch of Venice. Yeah, but also the beach, I feel like, is wider. You're farther away from the shore, actually, when you're at those places.

1:00:27Yeah, you're right. There's a spatial thing about New York. There's literally the subway is right there. Yeah, it's all very jammed together. But I had a great time at the beach, and I guess I just wanted to share that with everyone. I think that's a really great way to end this special beachy summer version of Three Things. Yeah, catch you soon. Catch you soon.

1:00:50This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.