427: Chicago’s Biggest Little Bakery with Valeria Socorro Velazquez Lindsten

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0:32Anything that pertains to the shop is just so deep to me. So it's not just like, oh, I don't like the way the laptops look. It's just that, you know, when I look into the dining room, I want to see people like enjoying themselves, having fun. Because I'm, you know, I'm sleeping in the kitchen. This is Taste. I'm your host, Eliza Barbanel.

0:59Valeria Socorro Velasquez-Linston is the owner and head baker of Boba Pastry and Coffee, a beloved Chicago cafe. Originally from Guadalajara, Mexico, she worked in pastry at several spots across Chicago before creating her very own bakery with delights like the green mole croissant and pineapple sourdough muffin. It's so fun to have her on the show to talk about her pastry perspective, the struggles and successes of opening a small business, and more.

1:35Valeria Socorro Velasquez-Linston, this is Taste. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm in the best mood right now because I got to go to Loba earlier today and eat all of the pastries in the pastry case. And the most obsessive one to me is the green mole croissant. I've heard that you've done other mole croissants in the past. Can you tell me about the iterations? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you don't know anything about mole, it's very distinct to whatever region of Mexico you're at, you're from. The mole that I grew up with is actually called pipian. It's a pumpkin seed mole.

2:15and from what I know is closer to like the original version of mole which would be Siquilpac with which is like traditionally from the southern part of Mexico so in my region we call it like orange mole or pipian and that's the that's the green mole now just because it's like it's like an offshoot of that but I've also made black mole which is the chocolatey I think the one that most people are familiar with. Originally from Oaxaca, it has cacao beans and it's that richer taste. And I've also done red mole and that's from Morelos. So it's like East Coast, Mexico, and it has an arroz. So it's like, it's also sweet, but like not as rich per se, and maybe sometimes spicier than black mole.

3:06Yeah, I thought that the heat on this green mole croissant was really fun and it also had almost like a white chocolate kind of vibe to me. Is there white chocolate in there? Yeah, there's white chocolate inside. Oh, okay. Good start for me. So are you laminating the mole into the pastry? Yeah. Is that hard? Yes. Okay. Can you walk me through the process? It's complicated, but also not. The process of making croissants is basically they call it lamination. So you just basically want to have very thin sheets of butter in between thin sheets of dough. That's really it. You know, there's like folds, there's like exponential increases and all these like technical terms.

3:48But we start with a mole paste. So, you know, think of like all of the spices, chiles, herbs, they get ground up, dehydrated a little bit. So it's a little bit thicker. We mix that with butter, which lowers the fat content. And that's another thing. I think most croissants have about 40 % fat or that's the maximum that you can laminate with. So depending on where you're at, it's like 25 to 40%. The higher the fat content, sort of like the easier it is to laminate. We make the mole paste. We mix it with butter. So it's mole butter and we use that to laminate, but it's a lower fat content. so it it just means that it softens faster so I guess to zoom out for a second I'm wondering if you could tell me a little bit about your perspective as a baker and like what kinds of things you're hoping to accomplish in the pastry case at Loba I'm interested in innovation I think just because there's so much I'll just say it I think American pastry is so boring like I am so tired of chocolate chip cookies I don't even like them I feel like yeah it's chocolate of Of course, it tastes good.

4:58But like, why are we still having those? Why are we still still obsessed with chocolate chip cookies? And there's just so many flavors per region, per season, in different parts of the world, per culture, that I feel like there's so much more that is still not explored. and not to sound like a colonizer I'm just like you know I'm not trying to take over any specific culture just like bringing highlighting different flavor combinations that people are not used to especially in a coffee shop setting especially in a bakery setting aside from that you know like interesting flavor combinations but also like improving on technique a little bit that's my perspective as a baker.

5:44That's what I always try to do. Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting to talk about it in the context of a coffee shop also, because I do think there is kind of like, you know, a lot of bakeries, maybe they serve coffee, but you're not expected to sit and linger somewhere. And when it is the coffee shop, I do think there is that really kind of expected canon of like a pumpkin loaf cake or maybe a Madeline or the chocolate chip cookie or something like that. So I feel like to be able to be playing with baked goods in a space where people can actually like sit down and enjoy them must be kind of interesting for you as well.

6:18Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very much so. Just exploring different options, you know, whether we like it or not, those national retailers sort of lead the way as far as what the public prefers. So anything that we would see in those, I don't know, pop culture. I'm just, I don't know. I'm so anti-pop, I guess. So I guess to talk a little bit about your own background here in Chicago, I know that you were cooking at, you know, various kind of like fine dining spots in the city and kind of refining your own pastry craft. What inspired you to want to open your own space? Because that obviously is a huge endeavor?

7:03Mostly, I think I realized very quickly how there was no future for me in the industry that I wanted to be in. The time that I spent on fine dining was not, you know, it's almost not relevant to mention the restaurants that I was at because it's not like I had any relevant position. I realized that I was not going to be promoted. I was not going to be paid a fair wage. I was just not going to be looked at more than, you know, like maybe free help or like someone who was there temporarily. And it was upsetting because, you know, I think it would be justified. Like maybe I wasn't good enough. I didn't have enough experience, you know.

7:47But when it happens like over and over again, you get passed for promotions. You know, they don't want to give you the position that you asked for. They like lowball you. I, you know, I just realized very quickly that I wasn't going to make it very far. So I decided to sort of build the future that I wanted for myself and people like me. It's very different now. But, you know, when I first moved to Chicago in 2010, I had only been in the States for five years at that point. And I'm an incredibly like fastidious, obsessive person. But my English was very different. You know, I had been living in Florida previously, so my skin was darker, my accent was thicker, my style was different.

8:36And also I was significantly younger. I was only 21. So I had everything to prove and nobody was paying attention. You know, nobody cared. And I mean, I get it. There's so many reasons. I was also just very hungry, very new, very fresh. So everything kind of makes sense looking back on it. But it's still the reality is that there was no future for me. I like the one comparison that I want to make or that is easier to make now, that show that is very popular, The Bear. Yes, I've heard of it. Based in Chicago. I can't watch it. So, you know, from what I know, we're seeing the life and the experience of this chef.

9:16And he is a white guy. He is like, you know, what's it called? Average looking white guy or maybe very good looking white guy, whatever. I would say like for some reason he's become like a sex symbol. But I would agree with you that he doesn't look like a movie star. Yeah. He's a guy. Yeah, he's a guy. So and you see how he is treated in the kitchen and it's this awful experience. I'm like, OK, so imagine that because I was in those kitchens. Just imagine that. But instead of being this man who looks like everybody else, talks like everybody else, it's a five foot four brown skin thick accent Mexican girl who still does not understand the way of the kitchen just like imagine how I was treated you know and that's all I have to say I still you know try to work as hard as I could and I try to I don't know get noticed go the extra mile you know my my work ethic has always been a little extra but nobody cared you know I had to walk away.

10:18Yeah. I mean, I think it must be hard to walk away from something that is set up in the industry as the pinnacle of what you're supposed to be trying to achieve. But being able to do that has kind of opened up this whole other world for you with what you're able to do. I'm curious, like Loba has been through two iterations, right? You moved venues. And I remember when I was doing research for this episode, I read this incredibly moving and intense article that you wrote for Eater about how difficult it was for you to reopen Loba in a new location when your lease was up because you didn't have major backing.

10:53And it was so surreal because obviously I know the industry is really hard to get licensing and spaces. But at the same time, you had all of these media accolades by that point and this dedicated consumer base and these incredible pastries. And you still were rejected for a business loan and you had to do three rounds of crowdfunding, which was ultimately successful. And I went to the space this morning that you were able to open. And it is a really beautiful, vibey, fun coffee shop. I guess I'm curious, going through all of that, what is your takeaway from that experience now? If you could go back in time and give yourself a piece of advice or three pieces of advice or something.

11:31I think that unfortunately we haven't evolved as much as we thought that we had evolved. Regardless of how many strides we've made in feminism and the independence that women have. You know, we're still considered second class citizens. I can't tell you how many times people are asking me to get my parents to co-sign. You know, I was still like, I was not considered for these loans as a single entity, even though I built this place from the ground up. It was always like, but what about a man? What about a husband? What about a father? What about parents? What about a rich uncle? You know, it was people were always asking me to show that I had the support from like a male counterpart, you know.

12:15And I mean, that's one part. The other part is that it doesn't matter how many mentions you get it. All that matters is how many assets you have, you know. So and you had not been operating. So you didn't have active income coming in at that point in time. Yeah, that was a big one. That was a big one. When I applied for the loan, you know, my lease, not only were we coming off the second year of the pandemic, my lease was already up. There was no stream of income. It's once again, you know, it's like, I get it. You're a financial institution. It's a financial institution. They just want to get their money back.

12:53But I thought I had built enough of a reputation, history. You know, I thought I could. I had enough to vouch for myself and it just wasn't enough. Yeah. And they don't care how delicious the pineapple sourdough muffins might be. They don't care. They really don't care. Did you bring a basket of baked goods? I feel like. I did not. I actually did not. I mean, malaria, that could have changed. Missed the opportunity right there. I have a friend who's a food stylist in New York who was trying to get an apartment and baked and brought them to the landlord. And I don't know if that's what did it for her, but she did get the apartment.

13:32Wow. But I do think, you know, these institutions are not built to be giving chances to people. They're built to be protecting their assets. And it's really inspiring to see that your community was able to show up for you through three rounds of crowdfunding. I'm curious, like, how the community vibe is now that LOBA is back open. Do you do events with people? Like how does kind of the space function as a community space? It still kind of functions as a community space. I think all coffee shops are community spaces. And that's why it will continue or Loba will continue to be a bakery slash coffee shop.

14:08You have like no laptops. I feel like is one thing that's a good effort to keep people from just being on their computers all day. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, I think some people get very upset with us about the laptop rule. But, you know, and it's not like I hate technology or anything like that. It's just the space is very small. We only have five tables, you know, and if somebody wants to be working on their laptop, there's only going to be five people working on their laptops. And that's good. I mean, there's co-working spaces for that. Go to the library, stay at home. You know, this is a place of business.

14:41Yeah, isn't your Instagram bio, like fancy coffee shop and bakery, not a co-working space? Yeah, definitely not a co-working space. Anything that pertains to the shop is just so deep to me because it is an extension of myself. There's no shallow answers. You know, anything that I do is so intentional. I've thought about it so much. It means so much to me. It's like core values. So it's not just like, oh, I don't like the way the laptops look. It's just that, you know, I go to work every day. I'm going to be working in the kitchen. I don't want to look at you working while I'm working too. You know, when I look into the dining room, I want to see people like enjoying themselves, having fun because I'm, you know, I'm slaving in the kitchen.

15:26Same, you know, if anybody that I know that I've met through the shop needs a space to get together or to have an event, I'll offer it. I've done some pop-ups. My, I guess, new friend, Nia, I actually met her at a New Year's Eve party just at random. It turns out that she works down the street and she was looking for a place to hold this thing called Conscious Conversation. And it's for young black artists to get together and talk about what it means to be young black artists. and you know like I did I didn't remember meeting her when I saw her at this party but I was like hey like if you want to get together if you need a place just like let me know um and you know I'm glad that she took me up on the offer but it's it's things like that you know I don't think I I don't go out of my way to be a community spot I feel like because I'm part of the community these like instances or these opportunities just like happen.

16:27And that's my preferred way. You know, I'm not, I'm not looking to like spread the word of Loba. I'm just, I'm there all the time. You, you're coming here often. I'm going to recognize your face. I'm going to learn your name. I'm going to talk to you about what do you like to do? Just cause like, that's what makes my day go by faster. That's what makes my work more enjoyable. Just connecting with people, you know. Definitely. I love it. Yeah. And what you said earlier about coffee shops essentially being a community space is so true. And even when you look at the history of coffee shops opening, it was this third space concept of it's not work, it's not home, it's something else.

17:08And I think it's just really beautiful to see that intentionality even when you walk into the space. I'm curious if you could tell me a little bit about the drinks component of Loba. The drinks are just right now or so far, it just whatever pops into my head, you know, like there's ingredients that I get maybe for a pastry that I forget about. And then, you know, I find them, I don't know, five months later the next year. And I'm like, oh, let me use this right now. So there's there's really no rhyme and reason for it. However, this far into it, it's worth mentioning that I think for the first two years of opening Loba, I did not have any flavor drinks because I wanted to put the emphasis on the flavor of the pastries.

17:56So it was pretty straight, just like espresso, latte, cold brew. That's it. And what roaster are you using? Right now we're using Little Waves. They are a woman-owned roaster based out of Durham, North Carolina. and Latina woman-owned. And that's exactly why I picked them because they're a business like me. They started from the ground up. They know, I know what it's like. They know what it's like. But not just that, you know, when I was looking into switching, I, so I'm originally from Mexico. I was looking at different roasters and the coffee that they were offering is, and it's usually, you know, the Colombias, the Guatemalas, or the really fancy Sri Lanka or African coffees.

18:48I can't. Ethiopia, sorry, the fruity ones. And growing up in Mexico, and every time that I go back to visit, the coffee is outstanding. It's so good. And I was like, why can't I find Mexican coffee with U.S. roasters? And I mean, I did a little bit of a deep dive. One of the reasons why is because Mexico is a coffee drinking country. So the best of the Mexican green coffee stays in Mexico. But number two, you know, whatever is left over, since the rating is not as high, roasters don't want to take a risk with a subpar green coffee. So, you know, there wasn't much of an exchange or of an export anyway.

19:30And what made me switch to Little Waves is because they started buying Mexican coffee to roast in Durham. Their whole intention behind it is that, you know, maybe they're not getting the top rate green product, but they're buying product and supporting these local communities. And by investing in them, maybe they'll eventually, you know, on the next harvest, the second season or whatever down the road, these farmers, the small farmers will want to give them a better rate or like a better product eventually. You know, so more roasters are doing that. But as far as I'm concerned, our Little Waves is the first roaster that I became aware of that was doing this in Mexico.

20:16You know, like if you invest in a community, you'll get returns. You're also, you know, helping promote the local economy of the place, the farmer and their future. So I thought it was really great. And yeah, and I had a really great cortado this morning with that coffee and I was a big fan of it. And I was dunking bits of the pineapple muffin into it. I don't know if that was the intention, but. You can dunk, you can soak, you can chug. I mean, I'm not going to tell you how to drink coffee. That's personal to each person. Jump across the bar, smack someone's hand down. So you have expanded past just doing classic coffee into doing these kind of flavored drinks and things.

20:59Is that a fun exercise for you to be coming up with those? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to sound pompous, but it's not hard. It's fun. What, like it's hard? Yeah, what, like it's hard. I've been drinking coffee my whole life. Okay, I'm going to tell you a little story. Please. I have so many tangents. Okay, so I'm from Guadalajara. It's the second largest city in Mexico. It's basically like a Chicago to in the U.S. Like if Mexico City is New York, Guadalajara is Chicago. Or I don't know, in my opinion. My mom grew up in a very small town that is about 90 kilometers away from the city. That's where my grandmother is from, and her family had been there for, you know, forever.

21:51I never realized how lucky I was in my upbringing, because even though I was able to go to school in the city, you know, I went back to the small town very often. And that's very much part of my identity. The town is called Atoyak. But anyway, to the point. The story is that my grandmother was so particular about the way that she liked her coffee that she grew a coffee bush and she would pick the berries and let them dry and, you know, process them the way, whichever way she liked them. And then would roast it in her like wood stove that she had up until I was like, I don't know, maybe like eight years old in her house.

22:31She had a wood stove that she would have to light every day. So she would toast it and then grind it and make her coffee just the way that she liked it because she was a very particular woman. And, you know, as far as what is concerned to me, one of my earliest memories with my grandmother is her giving me café con leche for dinner. And you can imagine, like, I'm probably like four years old and I'm chugging coffee, caffeinated coffee and sugar. I mean, I never had any trouble sleeping, you know. Wow, a flex. Yeah, a flex. Coffee is just part of my identity. I don't remember being around a kitchen table without coffee being part of it.

23:08And, you know, I remember the grinder that my grandmother used and it was this very old school, it was this crank thing. So I remember the whole process and the way that she made coffee and it was just really good just by itself or with sugar or with milk. And then there's the cafe de olla with piloncillo, with cinnamon. And there's just it's just food, drink, socializing is just what I've been doing my whole life. I love that. And is this your grandma that Lobas is kind of an homage to in the name also? No. Was I reading this somewhere? I mean, yes or no. In this small town, you know, there's what's the population?

23:53I think the population was like 5000 people. I don't know. Very small town. You know, it's next to or it's in a valley close to the mountains. And there's always this like legends of, you know, a lion living in the mountain, which like there's no lions over there. But, you know, it's like the wolf and the coyotes and the pumas and the lynxes, you know, because it's wild. There's a little bit of desert. There's a dry water basin there. So, you know, when you're close to nature and you're adjacent to like a more ancient culture, which are in very different small towns in Mexico, there's just more to be in touch with nature.

24:40And the legends of wolves were something that people just talked about, you know. The other part is there was this podcast that I listened to, and it's the story about the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone National Park. And, you know, before there were all these misconceptions about, you know, wolves and the wolf packs and alpha male wolves and the leaders of the pack and all of these things, very male oriented. But during the study, there was this female wolf who was just so badass. I invite everyone to listen to it's called uh oh six female zero six female cool I listened to it via snap judgment it's one of my favorite podcasts we'll link to it in the show notes on this podcast so people can find it yeah yeah uh so it's this this wolf this badass wolf who is not taking a pack not taking a mate and just like being like a superhero within the park you know she's very hard to track.

25:40She hunts in the way that no other wolf has hunted before. And also like this whole thing, she's not mating. She is like an alpha on her own. I think at some point she takes on two younger male wolves. So I think when I was about to open the shop and still thinking about what to name it, you know, I had different ideas. And then I listened to this podcast and I was like, loba loba pastry that's that's it you know like i also again not to sound too pompous but that's what i want to do you know i don't want to be i want to break the stereotypes of of the pastry the female pastry chef i want to break the misconceptions of what it is to what it takes to be successful in the kitchen you know i don't want to be into this i'm escaping this male dominated world to do something different.

26:37It doesn't mean that I don't have any standards. It just means that I want to go about it differently. And this podcast just really spoke to me. Yeah, I have goosebumps right now. I love thinking about that. And I think it's the perfect namesake for the bakery and the cafe. Looking ahead at, you know, maybe this next year, just kind of the future for Loba in general, like what are you trying to manifest or to make for yourself? I don't know. Everything. Everything. You know, there's been many iterations of the shop. I think I opened it to, to be completely honest, to satisfy my own ego, you know, so to sort of like to prove to myself that I was capable to make good food, good pastries, that I was capable of running a business, that I was capable of doing something worthwhile.

27:29But as the years have passed, I realized that, you know, I mean, I always have an ego, but it's Loba Pastry is no longer about me. It's about the people that work there. It's about the community. And especially at this space, especially of how busy we are, I just want to continue giving people like me or that were in my position the opportunity to do something else. the shop is never going to be this like you know full career for anyone but I see it as the perfect stepping stone for people to you know take up from there whatever it may be if they want to learn pastry you know I've had I have opportunities for interns to to just come learn everything that I have to teach them it can be a temporary place of like comfort and community but that's what the that's what I intend to do with the shop at least.

28:27Of course, the pastries are always going to be good. Of course, I'm going to continue to try to innovate different pastries. I'm going to try to bring different flavors, you know, whatever ingredient or like technique I'm like obsessed about mastering or playing with at the time. As the years go by, it's really less about me and more about everyone else that is part of it. That's really nice. I love hearing that. And I can't help but want to ask you about if there is a technique or flavor that you're currently fixating on. Yes, kind of. I have this and it's just terrible. I have this idea of doing something with passion fruit and I still can't like figure it out.

29:14I don't know how I want to do it. I have a handful of ideas. The downside is that there's no way of getting fresh passion fruit in the city or not in a way that I would be able to afford it. Yeah, it's so expensive. So expensive and whatever we get is not very good. But that's sort of my latest obsession. Just passion fruit. I just want to explore it as a flavor. Maybe it's like a glaze or a syrup or something. I don't know. I have a few ideas. That and I'm always trying to put more bitter elements into pastry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one of the big ones that I make is the sesame bun. It's only on Fridays and Saturdays.