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Podcast Episode Summary: This Is TASTE - Episode 434: Khushbu Shah
Episode Overview In this episode of the TASTE podcast, hosts Aliza Abarbanel and Matt Rodbard welcome journalist and author Khushbu Shah to discuss her new cookbook, *Amrikan: 125 Recipes from the Indian American Diaspora*. The conversation delves into her personal experiences, the history of Indian immigration to America, and the evolution of Indian cuisine in the U.S. Additionally, the hosts share their current culinary interests, including restaurants and food trends.
Key Themes and Concepts
Khushbu Shah and *Amrikan*
- Author Background: Khushbu Shah is a journalist and former restaurant editor at *Food & Wine*.
- Cookbook Content: *Amrikan* features 125 recipes that blend Indian and American culinary traditions, focusing on Indian-American home cooking.
- Immigration Waves: Shah discusses three significant waves of Indian immigration to the U.S.:
- First Wave: Mid-1960s, primarily educated professionals in STEM fields.
- Second Wave: Family reunification and chain migration in the 1970s.
- Third Wave: The tech boom in the 1990s, leading to a more affluent Indian-American community.
Evolution of Indian Cuisine in America
- Culinary Heritage: Different regions of India brought distinct culinary practices, with Punjabi and Gujarati influences being prominent.
- Restaurant Trends: The conversation highlights the limited number of Indian restaurants in comparison to the Indian-American population, emphasizing that many immigrants pursued professions outside of the food industry.
- Myth Busting: Shah addresses the misconception that Indian food is overly complex, asserting that many traditional dishes can be simple and quick to prepare.
Recipe Highlights
- Tadka (Tempering Spices): A technique essential to Indian cooking that enhances flavors through blooming spices in oil.
- Everyday Dishes: Shah emphasizes the availability of quick and easy recipes, such as stir-fried vegetables and lentils, using a few spices.
- Personal Recipes: Included recipes reflect her upbringing, incorporating contributions from family, friends, and culinary observations.
Host Discussions
Culinary Interests
- Current Food Trends: Aliza and Matt share their ongoing interests in various restaurants and food projects:
- Agi’s Counter in Brooklyn is gaining attention.
- The Gjelina pop-ups in New York City.
- A preview of Ina Garten's upcoming memoir, which reveals her personal journey.
- The opening of Noodlecraft in Queens, celebrating cold noodle season.
- Cultural Insights: The hosts discuss notable cultural influences in food, including the importance of culinary familiarity and accessibility to diverse cuisines.
Conclusion This episode offers a rich exploration of the intersection of Indian culture and American culinary practices through Shah's insights and experiences. It emphasizes the personal narratives behind recipes and the importance of understanding food as a dynamic cultural expression.
Additional Resources
- Khushbu Shah's Work:
- [Grub Street Interview](https://www.grubstreet.com)
- [Food & Wine Contributions](https://www.foodandwine.com)
- Cookbook: *Amrikan: 125 Recipes from the Indian American Diaspora* available for purchase.
- Other Mentions:
- Upcoming events at Rizzoli Bookstore.
- Latest issue of Cake Zine.
Listen to the Episode For a deeper dive into these topics, listen to the full episode on [This Is TASTE](https://tastecooking.com).
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Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. Resi is a digital platform that connects restaurants to restaurant lovers by elevating dining experiences, providing original industry content, and helping to fill some of the country's most exciting dining rooms. Because restaurants have always been more than just places to eat. The amazing world of restaurants is just a few taps away in the Resi app and at resi.com.
0:31Why is it just this one culture that has, you know, really intense, crazy, complicated foodways? That idea is so ridiculous to me. There are some really complicated, time-consuming dishes, but then there's also a lot of everyday food, a lot of really easy, fast, quick things that people don't realize that is so wild and insane to me. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard.
0:59Kushbu Shah is a journalist and the author of an absolutely terrific new book, Amrikin, 125 Recipes from the Indian-American Diaspora. In this impressive debut, Kushbu covers Indian-American home cooking through a very personal lens, offering recipes that blend South Asia with suburban Michigan sensibilities. On this episode, we talk about what inspired her to take this journey and about her deft recipe development chops. Man, I love the recipes in this book. It's so great having Kushbu on the show, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.
1:43Kushbu Shah, welcome to This is Tace. How are you? Thank you. I'm great. It's launch day, so maybe I'm not great. I don't know. Your book is out in the world, Amrikin. I am such a fan of this book. I have to say I finally looked at it last night for the first time very closely. And I three hours flew by. Oh, wow. Thank you. I love it. I have so much to ask you about it. This interview will be about your book. We could talk about your time at Food & Wine, your writing, your writing and taste. That will be for another time. OK, sounds good. We'll have you back. Let's start and talk about Indian immigration to America.
2:17and really American is the kind of translation for American. I get the sense from your writing, and this is new to me, that there were three waves of immigration to America from India and that really translates to the food. I'd love just briefly, can you talk about these three waves and how they represent how food is being prepared in America? Yeah. The Indian diaspora in America is younger than the Indian diaspora and say the UK or, you know, the Caribbean, et cetera, it really kind of kicks off in the mid-1960s when the Immigration Act is passed, which kind of opens up the door to people who are pursuing like higher education degrees.
3:02So a lot of the H-1B visas start to come through. So people that are often pursuing STEM careers, you know, that's where you get the kind of the trope that all Indians are like doctors or engineers. And it kind of comes from that. And so there's this wave of immigration that opens. People come over to become doctors, engineers or study to become doctors or engineers, etc., but also other scientists and other careers as well. So that's kind of the first wave. Obviously, there are Indians in America before that, but it's a very small number and it's not a super robust population. And then so after that first wave, you kind of get the second wave through chain migration.
3:37So it's the family members of these first people that came through. So my parents are actually part of the chain migration because my uncle came in the 70s. My uncle grew up in the desert in India, basically, where it's like winter means that it's 70 degrees. Summers can mean 120 degrees. And imagine going to Cornell. Wow. Yeah, it's like a winter. It's not Palm Springs. Definitely not Palm Springs. And this is also like pre-internet, pre-email, pre-Facetime, WhatsApp. Like, I just cannot imagine moving to another country at this time and not being able to remain connected to your loved ones, like, immediately.
4:15You know, they would wait. My mom would tell me stories about how they would wait for these, you know, two-minute phone calls home that he could afford at that time. And it would have to be maybe once or twice, you know, a month if he was really lucky. And so, yeah, my parents are part of that. And then there's this kind of this third wave of immigrants that kind of happens in the 90s. That's kind of the tech boom, the IT generation. So everyone ends up working in a lot of the computer science jobs, the Silicon Valley type booms. That's in the 90s. And incredible wealth being generated by Indian Americans and Sundar Pichai.
4:51That's a great example, right? Yeah. South Asians are so proud of all of our CEOs. Yeah. CEOs of the biggest companies in the world are from South Asian descent. And really, how does these three waves of immigration relate to the food? Does the food being made, and we're going to talk about restaurant food because we'll get to the home cooking, but I want to know how Indian food is being expressed outwardly in restaurant form. How does it change over these 50, 60 years? Well, so a lot of these immigrants tend to be from very certain parts of the country. So you get a lot of Punjabi immigrants from the north, a lot of Gujarati immigrants from kind of what I like to call the Midwest of India, but it's still in the north.
5:27and then you get a lot of immigrants from like the south also but from very specific regions of the south and so they bring a lot of their culinary heritage with them the thing is like when you are immigrants that are pursuing stem degrees you know you're not exactly opening restaurants and you know a lot this idea that you would move to america to work in food was look so down upon it's only kind of our generation now that it's even really starting to be explored so the restaurants that were opening were out of necessity you know this also the motel generation of immigrants right like in the the gujarati immigrants also own a lot of the 7-eleven franchises a lot of the liquor stores a lot of gas stations like that's part of this as well that like the kind of the chain migration wave um and so a lot of the restaurants that are being open at the time are just the ones that you know they kind of feed the community but also they just need to make money so it's a lot of The kind of curry house British classics.
6:26Yeah. Sort of diluted. Which is what a lot of Americans and frankly a lot of our listeners who love food are maybe exposed to in towns is this type of cuisine that fits into that British style, which is quite narrow. And of course, you cover all over the country and we'll get to some of the regions you cover. But it's interesting. the stat that really struck me, there's 4.8 million Indians living in America, but only about 5 ,000 restaurants. Compared to Thai, there's 350 ,000 Thais living in America, and there's around the same amount of restaurants. Stunning math there. And does it go back to the idea that many Indians came here to not open restaurants, frankly?
7:09Yeah, it's not something that was really encouraged. And also the Thai government actually really invested in opening a lot of Thai restaurants, which is very cool and a really interesting tourism kind of trick in a way. And, you know, the Indian government never quite did that. Yeah, it's interesting. And I love reading the introduction to your book. And I just love this book. And I hope it comes out many times how much I love it. But let's go to your myth busting section. Yeah. You have three great myths. And I'm not going to spoil all three because they're all great. But the one that I want you to talk about is the idea of, quote, Indian food is complicated to cook.
7:43That is a myth you want to bust because you cite your mother, who's a professional. She's very busy, but also cooking Indian food every day. Explain this myth. Bust it for us. Yeah. I mean, this idea that all Indian food just takes so long and needs like 900 spices and, you know, 72 hours to make anything. Like, why would people think that Indians just like don't work, don't have anything else to do? Like, why is it just this one culture that has, you know, really intense, crazy, complicated food? ways. That idea is so ridiculous to me. Indian food is like any other cuisine in that there are some really complicated time consuming dishes.
8:21I'm not saying that there aren't biryani, for example. Certain styles of biryani really do take that long, really do have that many spices. But then there's also a lot of everyday food, a lot of really easy, fast, quick things. And the idea that that wouldn't that people don't realize that is so wild and insane to me. Yeah. Well, you bust that myth repeatedly in the book because if you look at the book, most of the recipes are one page. Yeah. You have very few sub recipes, if any. And really, it feels like a lot of it's stovetop cooking and not dissimilar to Korean cuisine and what my book came forth with is that you can make this food at home.
8:57Yeah. In fact, it's pretty easy to make at home. Yeah. And the thing is, my mom would also make so much. Indian food is also not a lot of like one pot cooking. You know, that's just inherently not what it is. It's a lot more like small plates or like a bunch of dishes kind of comboed together to make a full proper meal. But my mom is a dentist, runs her own practice, came home and put hot, fresh food on the table every night within 20 to 45 minutes. And yes, she's incredibly skilled. I'm incredibly lucky to have grown up that way. You know, the pressure cooker really is our best friend in so many ways in Indian food.
9:29But the fact that she's able to, that means there's a lot of dishes that come together very quickly. So many of my favorite Indian dishes have a handful of spices. You know, maybe like three or four spices total. It's a lot of stir fried vegetables, a lot of pressure cooked lentils and beans, things that really come together so quickly. And it's, yeah, this idea that it would take more than that is ridiculous. Well, I mean, once you have a foundation of spice and we'll get into tadka or chonk as it's called, this idea of blooming spice. I feel like that's something that once you understand how spice works and you've got your spice box, the food comes together pretty quickly.
10:03Explain this idea of tadka. Yeah, so a Thardka, Vagar, there's a million names for it. Every sort of region of India still utilizes this technique, you know, no matter how different the regional dishes are. It's the idea of like blooming or tempering spices and some sort of fat, whether that's ghee, a neutral oil of some sort. But what it does is it really activates whatever spice you're using. So, you know, mustard seeds, sesame seeds, urad thal, curry leaves, whole dried peppers. It really brings out all of the aromas. And it's something that you can use to either start a dish or finish a dish, which is kind of amazing.
10:38I think once you have that box next to your stove and you leave it out. Masala dabba, yeah. Yeah, dabba. Having a dabba there. And I had the guys from Burlap and Barrel here in recently. And they told me, like, just leave your spices out. Yes. Once you leave them out, you can see them. Yes. And you can start cooking with them and having a dabba around. Like, hey, man, you can, like, throw this stuff together. and you do such a great job in outlining many of the spices or not many a few of the spices that you need and i love that you make some real choices uh and like call it by these three ingredients i love that you aren't doing the typical spices to me one that comes to mind is uh kasuri menthe dried fenugreek yeah why is this spice so fundamental to your cooking i love I think it's that herb.
11:26It's dried fenugreek, but it's the thing that gives certain dishes, that certain like genie saquois, kind of that flavor that you can't quite identify. But when it's in there, it makes the dish just so good. It kind of has this like mild herbaceous earthiness to it. And on its own, it doesn't really taste that amazing, quite frankly, personally. But when you add it into like, you know, a paneer tikka masala or like whatever it is, an egg curry. I have a tikka masala mac and cheese in my book, and I throw some quesadilla and methane to the bechamel. And it really just adds this roundness to the dish.
12:03It's optional in all of my recipes, but highly encouraged. Well, it gives it a distinct Indian flavor profile where you won't confuse it with other cuisines, right? It'll give you that kind of je n 'aiis quoi. I love that. It gives you a level of umami. It gives you some, like those glutamates are popping. It just makes it special. Yeah. And I want to talk about Kashmiri chili because that's really important as well. And you write how it's almost in every recipe. And I think you wisely point that out because you're not like it's not just for heat. It's for other elements, too. Yeah. It's heat with flavor.
12:39Right. I hate when he is just pure heat. I think there's use cases for it. But I like that Kashmiri chili pepper, you know, chili pepper adds like a really wonderful like floral aroma to things, too. Like, yes, you could substitute cayenne and paprika sort of mixed together to approximate it, but it's still not quite the same. If you like to cook Indian food at all or if you just like any – a little bit of heat in anything that you like to make, Kashmiri Red Chili Pepper is, like, totally worth investing in. It's so easy to find these days, too, thanks to brands like Diaspora, Burlap & Barrel.
13:12But honestly, any Indian store, Amazon, like, you can get it online in truly 20 – you know, 24 hours. It will show up at your doorstep. I have to shout out Spicewala as well. Spicewala. Oh, yeah. See, there's so many great brands. Yeah. So many great spice brands. You can get them online. Really easy to find. So buy fenugreek, buy Kashmir chili, and a few other spices. You have your daba at home, and you're ready to roll. Okay, let's get into some specific recipes. Super in. I'm super into the Maggie omelet. I feel the Maggie omelet is something that you're giving the real cosign to cook an omelet with noodles.
13:45But there's a fun story. Yeah. It involves David Chang. I love it. Let's get into that. Yeah, I mean, maybe this book is low-key, like Indian stoner food and Auntie Hacks is maybe what it should have really been. Sub-headline that should have been. Yeah, the sub-headline what it should have been. So I used to work at Eater and, you know, to blog the blog. And I just remember at one point when Dave Chang and Lucky Peach R.I.P. was, like, you know, still around, he made this thing called the ramlet where he took, you know, ramen seasoning packet and then added it into some eggs, whisked it up, and made, like, a French-style omelet.
14:17And I was like, oh, that's kind of fun. And it's just this thing, the name Ramlet, like stuck in my head. And I am obsessed with Maggie noodles, which is basically Indian instant ramen. It is the best. I think perhaps the most superior instant ramen in the global instant ramen canon. But I really love Maggie. And so I was like, man, he really missed out on the best part, though, which is the noodles. Like I love like a frittata de spaghetti. You know, the idea of like binding just some noodles with like a tiny bit of egg and some like seasoning that really appeals to me. And so I was like, I need to take the ramlet to where he really should have done it, which is to add the noodles into the mixture.
14:54So it's and then I add some feta cheese because I love feta. I think it cuts through everything. Yeah. And I have scallions and red onions in there because I don't know. Indians use a lot of onion in their cooking, especially red onion, because it cuts through a lot of stuff in a really nice way. But I also just love the mellow flavor of scallions. I like the, or spring onions. You know, I like the color that it adds to it too. And yeah, it's my kind of, you know, as the kiddos say, Delulu is the Salulu. This is my slightly delusional Maggie ramen omelet situation. It's such a sneaky, brilliant book with the recipe development, Kushboo.
15:28Thank you. You really understand recipe development. And I got to ask, like broadly zooming out, these recipes, do they come from your family? Do they come from your editorial work? We haven't even mentioned you were an editor at Food & Wine for many years and an eater. So you, like me, have met so many chefs and absorbed so much knowledge. But like, yo, sneaky good recipes in this book. Thank you. It's a mix of stuff. So some recipes are from my family, obviously. But, you know, I wanted this book to focus on the diaspora at large. I am part of that diaspora. There is a personal thread through it.
16:02I'm also a narrator, you know, for this diaspora. Everything goes through me. But it is not just my family's recipes. You know, there's recipes from my neighbors. There's recipes from, you know, friends, parents that are from other parts of the diaspora. There's stuff that I just observed. You know, I spent four years as a restaurator at FNW, and so I did loops around the country. And so there's things I would see on restaurant menus or, you know, see pop up, and I'd be like, oh, okay, let me, like, make a riff on that. And then there's just some stuff. There's stuff that I just wanted to see that didn't exist.
16:33And I was like, why doesn't this exist? like the sag paneer lasagna is a perfect example of that. Okay, we're going to get into the KFC train. So we, of course, have talked about Korean fried chicken, KFC, but there is an even better fried chicken. I mean this fully. I'm sorry, Korean fried chicken, but Carolyn fried chicken. Since I had it at Cardamom Hill, I think about a decade ago, via Asha Gomez, I've not stopped trying to chase down the best way to fry chicken. You give it a tribute. You mentioned Asha Gomez's name. Let's talk about this recipe. I love it. I love it. I love it. I have this theory that Americans would know way more about Indian food if we did way more Indian fried chicken shops.
17:11But there's because Indian food has a lot of actually fried chicken, all kinds. But my favorite happens to be Carolyn fried chicken because it's actually not that spicy, which I think surprises a lot of people. And it's really heavy on the curry leaves. And I think there's something so delicious about it. But Asha does this genius thing in the batter where she uses buttermilk. And I love that. It gives the chicken such a wonderful texture. it gives the crust like a wonderful texture too it is such a play of like what this book is really about Amrican which is like adapting Indian recipes with American ingredients and like you know using buttermilk in the chicken brine is a very southern thing to do right and it's very cool um and she's a legend but no one had turned it into a sandwich and I was like come on fried chicken sandwiches like that is the way to go I mean what's the bread choice what's the condiment how you serving it no I love like a potato bun if possible a griddled potato bun the condiment is in there.
18:02It's a curry leaf, like aioli, mayonnaise situation. I love a bread and butter pickle on it always. You need a little acidity, you know, to just bring it all together. And then, yeah, good piece of fried chicken. I feel your recipe is more curry leaf, less garlic. I'll just go to like 30 cloves or something. You're only doing five or six. Yeah, I love curry leaf. I think, you know, I just wanted that to really shine. I mean, garlic is super delicious, but you can get that in so many other places. But I mean, if you want to add more garlic to it, also go for it. Of course, no shade. I'm never going to tell you to not do that.
18:35I agree. And I have to call out Rowdy Rooster here in New York. That's some Indian fried chicken right now. Yeah, and that's some spicy Indian fried chicken. It's definitely spicy, but yeah. It's great, yeah. What's another great gateway do you feel like, you know, in terms of, you make a great point, like maybe Indian food could be marketed better through like more fried chicken shacks because truly a fried chicken shack using carolin spices would kill in most markets. And like people love fried chicken, right? It's a nice entryway. And I mean, I feel like Kati Rolls have been like trying to do a version of that, right?
19:04Because it's sort of similar to a wrap or a burrito, like a facsimile of these foods that you, you know, you understand in concept. And I feel like the burrito is also a great vehicle for other cultures to kind of enter in the burrito, the taco, right? Like what Roy Choi has been doing, you know, for ages, I think did wonders for American, understanding of Korean food to start having bulgogi burritos it was kind of brilliant and so there's been Indian restaurants that have tried to be the chipotle of Indian food but I think that's still not quite the thing that's going to really get people super familiar with it if you don't understand the ingredients inside but kati roll is a good one and then I don't know I really love chili cheese toast which is like a recipe in my book and I wish there was just more fast casual Indian restaurants that would focus on some of these more simple snackier foods, less emphasis on saucy, quote-unquote, curry-type things with rice and bread, and these more things that you drink with chai, or eat with chai, or it can be a really simple meal.
20:10I make chili cheese toast all the time. I love that recipe. It's photographed beautifully, and it looks like, it's like, why did the avocado toast get so much press, and the chili cheese toast not? You posed that question, and I'm also debating why are we spending so much time thinking about avocado toast. Yeah, I'm on a mission. I'm trying to make chili cheese toast like the new toast du jour. I think, I mean, cook the recipe from the cookbook. One thing, an observation you make, and I think it's so smart, you're kind of liberating the dosa from the crepe. I feel like there's so much written about how dosas are crepes and crepes are crepes.
20:43But no, you're like, it's actually sourdough. Yes. Think of it more about flavor profile. Think of it like the actual texture and thickness is not necessarily uniform like a crepe. What do you mean by that? Yeah, I mean, it's not just a batter that comes. First of all, there's so many types of dosa, one. But like the most basic plain essential dosa is a fermented rice and lentil batter. And like the fermentation is what makes it so brilliant. It's what gives it all of its flavor, all of its texture. And without the fermentation, there's no point of eating a dosa. A crepe is not fermented. And a crepe is a crepe, and that's great.
21:16it's just you know really boring to keep i understand that you know trying to explain one culture through another culture's food is how we often have to do it but it gets really boring and annoying when there's not they really aren't actually you know equivalent no um and i actually started i was like you know i need to start calling this indian sourdough more after actually artisan brian like he started saying that you know talking about how actually so many cultures have their own sourdoughs not in the form of like a loaf of bread and i was like oh that's actually brilliant. Yeah, because you also it connotes this idea that these are flavorful bread dishes.
21:52They're not just like there is a landing strip for sauce. Also, I'm a dough idiot, Loki, and I love that you can have a sourdough that doesn't totally require all the folding and shaping and every two hours punching down the dough and all that. It can be a little tricky if you don't understand how to ferment the the batter properly but otherwise it's not that hard speaking of dough kushbu i love the pizza chapter i love it so much so personal it's colorful really smart great recipe development the cheesy masala pizza is like my first one i love that there's corn in there but for many indian food being expressed as a pizza is kind of uncommon maybe even unknown you bring this mention of this restaurant in San Francisco that started it in the 90s, maybe in the 80s.
22:45But talk about the way Indian cuisine can be expressed via pizza. Yeah, I mean actually Indian pizza might be the best gateway, quite frankly, to a lot of Indian flavors. Indian pizza is something that's born in this diaspora, invented in the Indian American diaspora, and has now kind of made it back to India, which is fascinating, hilarious. And actually if you go to the Bay Area now, there are so many incredible Indian pizza restaurants. So it's not like a certain style of crust, but it's more about the toppings. And it's this idea of, you know, utilizing Indian sauces, Indian, you know, spices, taking Indian dishes basically and transforming them into like a pizza.
23:23And that's exactly what the cheesy masala corn pizza is, like based off of this street food dish that I love that is corn, you know, with Kashmir red chili and a lot of lime and cheese. And it's like one of my favorite street foods of all time. And I was like, this would be a brilliant pizza. And so, yeah, I did it that way. This pizza chapter is basically what I wish Indian pizza really looked like in this country. I think there's a lot of inconsistencies. And I'm waiting for the really, really brilliant Indian chain to open that is actually obsessed with crust as well. Yeah, like the dough and the baking, the flavor development in the crust is actually considered more than some of the other elements.
23:59Yeah, I feel I'm Pizza Palace and L.A. is on their way. Yes. In terms of Indian pizza and making it more of a mainstream. I mean, they're so successful. It's really fun to see just how popular that restaurant was. Yeah, that restaurant became popular. But let's scale it out. Like, what's the deal? What's holding it up, though? You're an observer of trend and the economics of restaurants. You're very knowledgeable about this. Why hasn't it really hit? I don't know. And food continues to stump me a little bit. But I do still think that we're finally entering a generation where working in food, working in restaurants, working in what is quote unquote seen as like blue collar jobs is starting to finally be a little more accepted.
24:35Okay, so this is when we break in and talk about Michigan food. Okay. Because you and I proudly grew up in Michigan. I grew up in Kalamazoo. You grew up in Lansing. Yep. So we have thoughts, but I want to stay with the pizza theme. Okay. What's your Mount Rushmore of Michigan pizza right now? This could be, I'm going to leave it open-ended. It could be fast food pizza. It could be one-offs. It could be changed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It could be style designed to be uniform. Mount Rushmore, Kushbu, your top four. What are they? Okay. like OG Buddies like the original original one in Detroit I don't think the chain ones are always as good I love Supinos oh yeah in Detroit big fan okay I gotta throw Domino's in there please people forget that Michigan is one of the best chain pizza states all of the best chains come from Michigan well if you listen to the show you absolutely know because I say it all the time we're the godfathers of chain pizza of fast food pizza we invented that shit Domino's but Domino's thin crust veggie thin crust very specifically It is like a God tier chain pizza.
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25:33And then speaking of chain pizza, Jets. The fourth is Jets. It falls in line. The classic Detroit style with Frico, but the more mass produced one. Yes. With a good, good ranch dressing. Sick. Yeah. We don't need to go there. I mean, I'm such a fan. Back to Michigan. What's a Michigan food, Kusper, that you think needs more shine? I feel like you have thoughts. And I know that you have considered our state and have written about it. Thank you. Yes, Michigan and Feelings Forever. whatever um like fudge one we have great fudge we do yeah i don't know i don't think it gets enough national love i love that you say that yeah i'm gonna link to the show notes a story we just wrote on taste about about fudge yeah about national fudge but mackinac is the center of yes mackinac man the smell of fudge and horse poop on the island such a funny way an interesting way to market the fudge that and um burner's ginger ale like love it it is there There's no ginger ale that has that flavor profile.
26:28And then I'll throw out one more, which is I think the Yemeni food and the Lebanese food in Dearborn don't always get enough shine. And in particular, tum, like does not get enough. I call it Detroit's ketchup. Explain it a little bit. What is it? So tum is whipped garlic, essentially with a lot of oil. And it's this wonderful, like bracingly garlicky condiment that you can dip everything in, fries, chicken. It's often served with kebabs, you know, things like that. But yeah, very popular, very common in Detroit where there's a very large Middle Eastern population. It's what makes garlic fries garlic fries.
27:04The best ones possible. The best. Tum is the best. Tum is dope, yeah. And you can buy it definitely at restaurants on the side, get in a little container. I think there's a brand selling Tum at Whole Foods these days. Oh, no way. Yeah, Detroit's ketchup. I think someone needs to brand it as that. Yeah. You take the idea. Michigan Food Branding Agency, you and I, we're launching that in a couple years. We're going to do that. One more recipe that really stuck out to me is your cabbage dish. It's Nusak. Cabbage Nusak. Yeah, Cabbage Nusak. And it really speaks to the book's ethic because it's like a really simple cabbage that you say you make once a week, which I believe maybe a little bit of yogurt on the side, maybe some naan or rice on the side.
27:40Explain this dish. Yeah, Cabbage Nusak. I mean, it's also in like the parlance that I tend to speak, which is a mix of like English and Gujarati and Hindi all kind of mushed together. My parents call it Kubi Nusak. Kubi means cabbage and Gujarati. but it's essentially just shredded cabbage stir fried with Kashmir red chili powder turmeric salt little oil done and it's the easiest thing and it's so delicious so comforting takes all of five minutes and I love yogurt rice if you if anyone knows me at all or you've ever followed me on the internet you will know that yogurt rice like yogurt and rice together a little bit of salt is like my favorite food in the entire world um and so you know the three of those things is a complete meal You got a vegetable.
28:19You got a little bit of protein. You got like a carb. No. So it's like basmati rice that's whipped in with like a little bit. Oh, my God. I actually don't prefer basmati. Oh. And it's basmati. I'm going to correct everybody on this. Basmati rice. Basmati? Basmati. Yeah. Basmati. Okay. No, no. I love the change. Yeah. Basmati is going forward. Yeah. Basmati. So you're adding. I love like a long grain rice. Yeah. Yeah. Or like even a medium grain. It doesn't matter. Whatever you like. Just anything that's not like a sushi rice. It's like so sticky. Yeah. That like a yogurt. I actually don't mind Greek yogurt.
28:51Some people find it way too thick. And then you just add in your, you know, the stir fried cabbage. Mix it all up in one bowl. It's one bowl. One bowl. And that's great lunch. Yeah. If you breakfast, it could be snacks. It could be dinner. Dinner. It's what I eat when I get back from like traveling a lot. Yeah. You need like a reset, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I love that idea. Yeah. So we often overlook the book's final recipe in our cookbook history. and I want to put it down in American. On page 302, there's something that's really fun. It's jaggery fennel rice crispy treats. Now, rice crispy treats have been rethought and rethunk and all that.
29:26But I've never seen fennel in a rice crispy treat. Hell fucking yeah. This is great. I love the candied fennel seeds. I feel like everyone loves a candied fennel. Yeah. Especially when they hand them out in the little dishes when you're walking out of Indian restaurants. Yep. And I was like, what would be really fun to do with this? You know, and I think it was actually the sister pie cookbook that had like a candied fennel or a fennel snickerdoodle or something. And that always sort of stuck with me. And I love a Rice Krispie Treat. And so and there's this also this Indian dish that's sort of similar, but it doesn't have the marshmallow kind of like pulley element to it.
30:01And it's just jaggery and puffed rice together and like rolled into balls. And it's one of my favorite things. But I always wished it had the Rice Krispie texture. So that got me, you know, thinking. and I was like, okay, if I'm going to do jaggery, maybe a little bit of ghee in this, what else would be really good? And I was like, oh, candied fennel seeds. It sounds amazing. And it really holds up for a week or so if you want. Oh my God, it's so good. So good. I love the sun. A little flaky sea salt. Why was it the last recipe? What happened? I don't know. You want to save the best for last, right?
30:30You've got to end on a banger. Yeah, that's a banger. Yeah, it is a banger. Last question about the book, Your Dad's Chai. I love the homage to your father. He seems to be like, I want to hang out with him. He's a ham. He's a good cool guy. I love to hear him sing. Oh, he's an incredible singer. He was almost a Bollywood singer, but then became a doctor. He became a doctor. So what makes his chai special? My dad can't cook anything except for chai. But he's the most passionate person about chai I've ever met in my entire life. A super big chai aficionado. He's very particular about it. He has perfected how he likes his chai, which is like you got a steep ginger in it for a really long time.
31:07Oh, cool. That's great. Yes. He loves fresh mint in there, cardamom, milk, sugar. He likes it, you know, less spicy than some other chai mixes or chai preferences are out there. But then you got to really boil it all together so the flavors like really meld. And he calls it adu ka jadu, which is a dad joke. Adu means ginger. Jadu means magic. So the magic of ginger because he puts so much ginger in his chai. Yeah, so it's his adu ka jadu chai. My mom is so annoyed that it's in there. That's in their way. She doesn't think it fits. She thinks it's really funny, like, or just, like, ridiculous, because he can't actually cook.
31:43So this is the one thing that he makes. I love it. You've got to respect your parents. Okay. I want to close before we get to our last section and talk about Aubrey Pick. Aubrey Pick photographed this book, and we lost Aubrey Pick in the last year to cancer. And I would like to hear from you, Kushbu, about working with Aubrey, And what do you take away from from working with such a talented and empathetic and kind person? I was able to interact with Aubrey a few times. The work is amazing. This is likely one of her last projects, I would imagine. So talk about that a little bit. Man, I always, you know, when I had the book in mind, I was very lucky to shoot with Aubrey for a lot of food and wine projects.
32:24And so, you know, we had worked together over the years and we always joke on set like one day, you know, that she was going to shoot my cookbook. Like this was the ongoing joke. And then I got the deal and that was like the only photographer I had in mind. I was really lucky my publisher also really loved her and really wanted, you know, to work with her. I just think Aubrey's sense of taste was just so incredible. It was really elevated. She also did a lot of justice to cultural books and cultural shoots. Nothing really, you know, fell flat. Nothing leaned into too many like tropes. like Indian food is and Indian culture is very colorful I wanted my book to be colorful and fun and bright and playful I just didn't want it to have the same old boring tropes you know it needs to feel as Indian as it did American and I feel like Aubrey like really nailed it she's also like a wonderful she's like a wonderful prop stylist too and her the way she could play with light I don't know it was just I feel really honored that I even had the chance to like watch her really work her magic and that it's my book.
33:25It's something that we did together that we'll get to live on. Yeah, always. It was one of her last projects. She did shoot Dolly Parton's most remember book as her final cookbook which is, I mean, if there's a way to do it that's the one in classic Aubrey fashion. Well, rest in peace, Aubrey Pick. What a legend in the game and gone too soon. Way too soon. And thanks for that memory. Kushpoo, on this is Taste. We asked guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? Okay, let's go. The best fruit. Mango, duh.
33:56Okay, I knew that. That was obvious. So good. I mean, is there a mango season on the East Coast or can you get them pretty much all the time? I mean, on the West Coast, you mean? Well, I guess we're centered on the East Coast now. Oh, we're East Coast, sorry. You used to live here. You're the West Coast. Now I'm an LA brain. I just love the Wong family farm mangoes, which happened for like three weeks out of the year. Kind of in July, they're like$9 a mango, but worth it. Worth it. So in July, look for those. Okay, the worst vegetable. Oh, cooked beets, like mediocre cooked beets. Yeah, you're a restaurant critic for many years.
34:24Oh, actually, Sunchokes, too. I can't stand that. Yeah, the chokes game is tough for me, too. But cooked beets, back to that. When you were reviewing restaurants and scouting and writing, you know, figuring out best new chefs, if there's a cooked beet in the menu, did you have a little bit of like, eh, maybe not? You know, I'd always try it. And if they were able to win me over with it, then they really did something. But, yeah, I just really hate it, though. Do you miss reviewing restaurants? Not really. I miss writing about, you know, being able to, like, uplift all the really cool chefs, though.
34:53Like, and writing profiles about them. That I did miss. You know, I do miss that part. All right. The best dessert? Grocery store, like, chocolate cheesecake. When done correctly. Actually, the best is really elevated grocery store chocolate cheesecake. Like, when a pastry chef does their riff on it, that is, like, the best. Like, when Hannah's just getting a quarter, she's, yeah. Or, like, Tessa D 'Adam, when they, you know, they do their versions. Like, she's now at the Georgian in L.A. When they do their versions, like, game over. There's nothing better. Your favorite American fast food chain?
35:23Taco Bell. Yeah. So how do you eat at Taco Bell? What's your order? Ooh, Crunchwrap Supreme, no beans, sub, or sorry, sub beef, no beef, sub beans. Or I love the cheesy bean and rice burrito, add extra red sauce, add onions. Double red, I like that call. Your favorite cookbook of all time? Oh, that is hard. There's so many truly incredible ones. I will say I love anything Hedy McKinnon writes. Yeah. I'm just going to shout out Hedy McKinnon right here. Like she is a beast. All of her cookbooks are lovely. But Tasia with Love is truly one of my favorite books. Yeah, I love that book. And Hedy, when Hedy comes into the studio and talks, it's beautiful times.
36:03Good conversations about food with Hedy. Okay, big ones here. Third New York City restaurant right now. Ooh. So hard. Oh, man. Via Crota for Life, Thai Diner for Life. And you know what? I pop back into Bonnie's and Bonnie's remains just one of the best restaurants to ever exist. Always hits hard there. Favorite Los Angeles restaurant right now? These are so hard. Your hometown. Antico Nuevo remains an incredible place. Beautiful pastas, best ice cream, incredible vegetables. I also just really love Surawan Tofu House. It's this old school, you know, tofu stew spot that just really hits. Favorite new cookbook discovery?
36:46I think you pronounce it Sebze. It's the vegetarian Turkish cookbook. The author is based in Turkey, but it's out of the UK, I think. Brilliant. The writing is amazing. Sebze, I have half of that book bookmarked. I love when you go through a book and you have all the books. Your book's like that for me. Oh my gosh, wow, thank you. It's so great. Favorite city outside America to visit for food? London, hands down. Everyone thinks New York is a really global city, but it's like you haven't been global until you went to London. Fully agree. I think it's a great point, Kushbu. I think when you go to London, you see like, you know, culture on culture on culture, not just like a couple neighborhoods like New York.
37:20I mean, L.A. is interesting, too, and New York are similar. But yeah, London is special. Yeah. London or Mexico City. Ooh, Mexico City. Great, great food city. Great food city. A cuisine you would like to learn more about? Ooh, I think Afghani food. Afghani food has a lot of overlaps in some ways with Indian food. there's like moments that overlap and some certain ingredients and certain phrases that kind of overlap but there's a lot that I would really like to learn about it. It looks all super delicious. Oh I'm also obsessed with this cookbook called Parwana and I think that has probably really stoked my interest in Afghani cooking.
38:00Do you have another book project in mind? Oh yeah I have two books I would love to do. Hint at them. What's the genre? One is not a cookbook. Yeah. One I think you know there's everyone really thinks that when you have the restaurant editor job and you're running around, it's like the world's coolest job, and on one hand it is, but on the other hand there's a very dark side to it that I think is worth exploring. Yeah, yeah. Some pages, I have some crazy stories, and yeah, I think there's a cookbook part two to American, yeah, that there's a lot that I, there's 125 recipes, which feels like a lot of recipes, but it's still not enough.
38:36You could go another 125. Absolutely, yeah. Especially, I feel like this book kind of leads up to today, but doesn't do a deep dive in kind of the last 10 years. And 10 years to like now, and I think there is kind of like a part two that sort of talks about now, you know, to the future. The modern history, like, you know, you've got like unapologetic foods doing incredible work. You've got like this modern food culture is really embracing South Asian flavors. And there's way more diversity in the diaspora now, too. And I want to cover that. Interesting. What's there a region of India that maybe isn't getting as much coverage that maybe should get more coverage.
39:12Oh, Kashmiri food, 100%. Like, such a beautiful foodway. And honestly, anything out of, like, kind of the northeast part of India that, like, borders, like China, things like that. There's a lot of really cool, like, like Assam, things like that. Like, Assamese food is, like, beautiful and wonderful. And also a lot of the tribal Indian foodways. Like, gorgeous, wonderful things, but it's just not that covered, yeah. Do you travel to India yourself often? I haven't been. I was supposed to go in 2020. I haven't been in a few years. I'm hopefully going at the end of this year or early next year. Oh, that would be cool to read about your discoveries and journeys.
39:45I would love to read that. I love your writing. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Ooh, do you know what? I really love those California hippie veggie sandwiches with the cheddar cheese and the sprouts on a good piece of bread or a good sourdough type thing. Wax paper in LA makes a really good version of it. Wax paper is dope. I love that place. And like all of their sandwiches are named after NPR hosts, which I really love. So this one is the Ira Glass. Oh, is there a Kyra's doll? There is a Kyra's doll. He's my favorite. He's my favorite L.A.-based guy. Yeah. Kyra's doll. He has a sandwich. I forget exactly which one it is, but the Ira Glass is basically their hippie.
40:22Their hippie one. Yeah. And it's my favorite. Yeah. This has been so much fun. Will you come back, please? Absolutely. Thank you for having me. We got to have you on again to talk restaurants because we didn't even get into that. Lots of thoughts. You got hot takes. We'll walk you to the lobby. We'll probably have like 30 hot takes. I love catching up with you, friend. Kush Bouchard, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
40:51Hey, Liza, what's up? You know, I just went to get my morning coffee through the throngs of tourists that are currently in New York for the summer. So pretty good, I guess. Listener, we're recording this at 10 a.m. on a Monday. Yeah. This is like earlier than we usually do it. Yeah, I'm like not really a morning person and I normally make my coffee at home, but I didn't have time this morning. So I went to, where did I go? Irving? Is that an Irving? No, I went to Le Payne Cotidian. Oh, LPQ. Right by the office. Yeah. And there were just all of these families coming in and then looking for a menu and then standing right by the door.
41:24It was very much people like not observing the flow of traffic. We love tourists in New York. We love you guys. Thank you for supporting our city. Thank you for bringing your money from all over the world. But yeah, keep your heads up. Pay attention to the traffic, right? Is what we're trying to say? Yeah, I mean, I did see some really cute kids. So it wasn't a loss. I think it's just in the specific moment in time in which I'm trying to make it to the podcast studio and caffeinate that I'm kind of on a one track and I can't have anything in my way. Well, I love that you're like you're about one tenth through this iced coffee.
41:55So by the time we're done recording this, it's going to be a different Eliza. Yeah, I'm like, excuse me, guys. I have a very important podcast to record. It's so terrible. It's like the New York stereotype. It's so good. Should we talk about three things? Let's do our three things. I think that's why we're here. Okay. Do you want to go first? Yeah, I'll do it. My first thing, I returned to Augie's counter. Finally, I'd been there in the early spring, and I finally made a second visit because Jeremy Solomon is appearing on the show. He's going to be coming to the studio and talking about his great new cookbook.
42:26But I have to report back that it's just like one of my favorite restaurants right now. I love this restaurant so much. Yeah. Did you get the cheesecake? That's my favorite. Of course I got the cheesecake. I've also prepped or asked Jeremy all about the cheesecake. And I believe he gives credit to his pastry chef, his original pastry chef on that cheesecake. So I love this book. It really gives a lot of credit to his staff. I love when writers can, especially if restaurant books, allow their staff the space that they deserve for the recipes. But this meal, holy cow. I had a pork chop with strawberry preserves and that's kind of it.
43:01I think it was a red wattle heritage pig. And I got to tell you, I never really have thought about strawberries and pork in my life. Yeah, I feel like apples and pork is kind of the classic combination. It's definitely true. But for some reason, this was like the best pork chop I've ever had in my life. It was cooked perfectly rare, which I love when pork is like a little bit less than medium. That's my preferred cooking temperature. Some people may disagree. But wow, what a great preserve. Strawberries, so good. And also, I have to say, this guy knows how to cook schmaltz. It's like not the one thing that I crave.
43:36I think I love chicken drips in the pan, the drippings. But when you do the crisp version, sometimes it can be so oily and like cloying. His is amazing. Well, I have to go back to Aggie's Counter. I feel like that's a restaurant that I've only been to a couple of times, but it's always so beloved. So this is re-upping it for me. It's terrific. And the cheesecake really with blueberries. Wow. What's your first one? My first one is that I went to the Jelena pop-up at WSA last week. Yes. Jelena, as some people might know, is a really famous established farm to table restaurant in L.A. They opened their long awaited New York version last fall.
44:10It burned down like two weeks later. Kind of crazy. Crazy, crazy that that happened. I mean, what a bummer for this iconic, you know, restaurant from L.A. Yeah, it really was a long awaited debut. I feel like there were a couple years in a row where I would see it mentioned in the fall restaurant roundup and it wasn't quite ready. And then this happened, but they are getting ready to reopen again. I believe in a new space and they're doing this pop up at the WSA, which is this very chic office building happening downtown. I can't say I've ever had a meal like so clearly in an office building before, but it was it was fun.
44:44I was kind of into it. I feel like, you know, there are definitely certain people in New York government who would be happy to hear about office buildings becoming sexy again. WSA is like, I mean, Kareem's new video series is filmed at WSA. I feel like I've seen five fashion shoots shot there over the past week. They have that really cool, like, Italian mid-century footbed when you first walk in. I took a lot of photos in. But the food was really great. I, you know, I celebrated my high school graduation dinner at Giusta in L.A. So I really, it's a restaurant that's close to my heart. And I feel like their New York version was really special.
45:16They did, like, a almost brothy sweet corn with Fresno chili and shallots. That was just really good. I think some of the first corn of the season that I've had. A really good duck confit with cherries. So I feel like a lot of people are on this kind of fruit and meat vibe right now. And they also did a cheesecake with TriStar strawberries, which I thought was really sweet because TriStars are a New York strawberry that are kind of hard to find these days. And I like to see Jelena doing the kind of ultra seasonal farm to table produce approach, but with East Coast produce. I love this recap and I hope we can have the Jelena crew on the show.
45:52I'd love to hear a conversation maybe the two of you can have. So that's my first thing. Okay. My second thing is I have been lucky enough. I have an advanced copy of the new Ina Garten memoir, and I've read it in two days. It's amazing. It's revealing. It's funny. I learned a lot about Ina. You know, Ina is somebody who we all know bits and pieces of her bio, but we haven't seen the full picture. I think it's obvious when reading the memoir that this is intentional. She's very, very private in many ways of her life. And she's had a very, I will say, a career that has spanned government and food and retail and commerce.
46:30And the whole story is a compelling read. And I'm really looking forward to having this out in the world. and I now have a new appreciation for Ina as not just a television personality as a cookbook author but as a person and I'm this is like no BS we we obviously we publish her books here and we're close to the the source but I'm I'm thrilled with the way this turned out it was way better than I thought I'm so happy to hear that I'm excited to read it I can't help but wonder who's going to play her in the biopic that will inevitably come after the book been thinking about that the whole time and really, I have to also say, I don't want to, we're going to have her on the show, like fingers crossed.
47:11We've been talking about this for about six months. I hope you and I can catch up with her and get the full story. But honestly, her relationship with Jeffrey is really special. And it's clearly, they have a partnership that spans 40, 50 years. And it's really, the heart of this story is the way they interact over the years and the way they've supported each other over the years. And it's really sweet. And I love reading about it. Well, I can't wait to read it, too. What's your second one? My second one is that the only thing I want to eat right now is chilled noodles. And yesterday I had some really good chilled noodles.
47:53I went to Noodle Craft in Long Island City and I got their Shanghai chilled noodles with like a knife cut noodle style and shredded chicken and cucumbers. And it really felt like this was the only thing my body could take. And it was delicious and exactly what I wanted. And I think Long Island City is kind of an underrated dining destination in general. So I just wanted to shout out Noodle Craft. I love a cold noodle in the summertime. I love Ning Myun, but I also love an unbrothed noodle, just a cold noodle on the plate. Sounds like that's what you're enjoying here. Yeah, exactly. It was very like chewy and slurpable.
48:28And I had boba after. and it just was kind of like perfect. Oh, amazing. I'm actually thinking about getting that this afternoon. Okay, I support that decision. You support it, okay. How's that coffee, Eliza? How are you looking? You're halfway done? No, we're at like the third mark, I would say. Hit that coffee. I mean, I'm trying to have a chatty and witty banter with you, so my coffee drinking is cut down, but we'll make it through. Okay, we'll make it through. My third and final pick right now, Now, I'm just going to take a moment and pause and allow you to go to Spotify, type in Sufjan Stevens, Illinois, 2004 album.
49:07Go listen to it. It's an incredible album. It sets up what I'm about to talk about, and Eliza and I both have thoughts on this. The most amazing moment on Broadway I've had in five years, and I'm fortunate I get to see a bit of Broadway with my wife Tamara, who loves it. unbelievable to see dance on Broadway first and foremost. I know you saw the show Illinois at the Armory when it was off Broadway. So we saw slightly different versions of the show. But wow, I am blown away by one of my favorite albums from the early 2000s, which is portrayed by Justin Peck, who's the choreographer and Tony Award winner, in a way that it's a musical.
49:47It is a dance number. There are no spoken words, And it still tells a story. Very hard to do. I don't want to go over the story because to me, it's all about going in and hearing the music and watching the dance and kind of taking away your own thoughts on what it means. But it's definitely about young people and self-discovery and road trips. Those are some of the broad themes. and Eliza I'm going to have you jump in but I want to say my favorite number out of many is Jacksonville which is Rachel Lockhart and Brian Tittle's duo which brings tap back to Broadway which you don't see a lot you know Bob Fosse used to in the 70s tap was everywhere and Broadway was part of what Broadway was but now that's not in fashion that was an incredible number I'm going to link to the performance from the Colbert show where they do this number.
50:44It's amazing. But what do you think about the show? I mean, I loved it. I think that the dance is so emotional and evocative and it helps, I think, to have a connection to the album, which I listened to that all the time when it came out. I think having the storytelling that Sufjan does and the lyrics helps. Like maybe if you're somebody who doesn't typically go to see dance, you can definitely understand what's happening more than a ballet per se. But I think even if there wasn't any lyrics or any kind of overt storytelling at all, All these dancers are just so in their bodies and moving so freely and so beautifully with each other.
51:17I really loved it. I have a personal connection to a big pop point. So that was really emotional for me as well. But I think that like regardless of how you feel about Sufjan or about dance in general, it is one of those kind of performances that you can go into and somehow get a lot more than you would expect. I hope it gets extended beyond August. I've heard rumors it might be. I think it might be. I think it's been staged in other cities before. Or maybe they would go on tour with it as well. Yeah, I hope listeners can check it out if it comes to your city or if it gets extended on Broadway.
51:47You can check it out here. What's your last one? My last one is that I recently picked up the final issue of Mold magazine. Wait, it's closing? Yeah, I mean, so Lin Yi Wan, who's the editor of Mold, from the beginning, I think, or at least from the past couple of years, has said that they would do six issues of the magazine. So this is their sixth issue. I imagine they will still produce work online and like Field Meridians, which is one of their events and other things that they do. But I just I really admire Lin Yee and Mold so much. It's a really beautiful and unconventional kind of earth based food and design publication.
52:20And their last issue is called Design for a New Earth. And it's kind of having new imaginations on relationships with ourselves in the soil. They have like artwork. Stephen Satterfield, who does Whetstone and High on the Hog, wrote for it. David Zilber, Alicia Kennedy, lots of folks like that. There's also a 48-page poetry insert that's called Scores for a New Earth. And also like all kinds of special imagery. I've still been working my way through it. But I think that if you're someone that's interested in kind of experimental food writing, food futures, or just kind of picking up something new, I really just I'm so proud of Mold for doing this.
52:56And I think everyone should be reading it. Well, thanks for sharing that. I'll link to a way to buy the magazine in the show notes. You should check it out. and Mold is a real legend in the game and indie publishing. And I didn't realize that they were capping it at six. I think that's a cool idea when you go into a project saying that you have an end date. I think a lot of publications obviously want to go perpetually forever, but that's obviously not possible for creative reasons, for financial reasons, for both. Yeah, I agree. I think that like especially when sustainability is the focus of a project, to think about not just sustainability in terms of editorial topics, but what's sustainable for a publication makes a lot of sense as well.
53:31And I do think Mold is so good at continuing to push the kind of work that they do. So I'm sure this isn't the last we'll hear from them. It's just the sixth and final episode in a series. And this week we're releasing Cake Scene, the new issue. We can't leave without plugging it. Yeah, well, just after this in the studio, I'm going to have in Tanya and we'll talk all about the new issue. So I'm sure there'll be more Cake Scene to discuss. More Cake Scene on This Is Taste. Liza, thanks for sharing the three things. Yeah, you too.
54:21Thank you.
54:29I'm not afraid of the blood.
From the publisher
Khushbu Shah is a journalist and the author of a terrific new book, Amrikan: 125 Recipes from the Indian American Diaspora. She was most recently the restaurant editor at Food & Wine magazine, where she crisscrossed the United States several times over on the hunt for the country’s best new chefs. In this very impressive debut book, Khushbu covers Indian-American home cooking through a very personal lens, offering recipes that blend South Asia with suburban Michigan sensibilities. In this episode we talk about what inspired her to take this journey, and about her deft recipe development chops. And, of course, we talked a little bit about restaurants, something we both share a great deal of love for. It’s so great having Khushbu on the show.
Also on the show, Aliza and Matt talk about three things they are into right now. These include Agi’s Counter in Brooklyn hitting new gears, the Gjelina pop-ups in New York City, and an early look at the terrific upcoming Ina Garten memoir, Be Ready When the Luck Happens. And more: it’s cold noodle season at Noodlecraft in Queens, Sufjan Stevens’s Illinoise on Broadway is incredible, the final issue of MOLD magazine has arrived, and Cake Zine’s new issue is here!
Do you enjoy This Is TASTE? Drop us a review on Apple, or star us on Spotify. We’d love to hear from you.
MORE FROM KHUSHBU SHAH:
Khushbu Shah Wants Her Seltzer Bubbles to Hurt [Grub Street]
Cheesy Masala Corn Pizza [Food & Wine]
Get to Know Masa, the Bedrock of Mexican Cuisine [Food & Wine]
Fudgetown, USA [TASTE]
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