466: Fall Cookbooks with Suzy Karadsheh of The Mediterranean Dish & Jeremy Salamon of Second Generation

29:46Yeah, so in terms of sweets, And I do always include a dessert chapter because people are always like, well, you're writing a Mediterranean diet book. Surely there are no sweets. There are always sweets in my cookbooks. There always will be because I'm a sweet tooth. But I will say this. I think the approach to sweets is like you said, it's a secondary situation. Like it's not, we don't always have dessert at home for my family. But when we do, it could be just a piece of fruit, maybe with a little bit of honey. So there's a recipe in the dessert section that is basically melons and honey. And I make a little bit of a sauce to put on top of like watermelons and cantaloupe.

30:37And I think it's like honey and pistachios. And it's just very, very simple. And it just makes the fruit pop even more. But so dessert is not really something that we worry about so much. But we do love, you know, a piece of baklava once in a while. And in the cookbook, I have a baklava cheesecake, which everyone absolutely goes crazy for it every time I make it. So it had to be included. And we don't really worry so much. We'll have our piece of cake and we'll enjoy ourselves and move on. Like we don't. It's okay, is what I was. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's go back to Greece a little bit more.

31:20And I'd like to get a sense of spending eight days there. And really, we traveled. We were in Athens and went over to Crete. And I'd like to get a sense of what you took away from that experience in terms of the food. How did it inspire some of your future recipe writing? For me, it was more affirming to see the way food is served in Greece. It's not unlike other parts of the Mediterranean where you have a lot of small plates. often. I think if you remember, like almost every meal started with several little dishes of like little dips, some, you know, vegetables. We had, remember these zucchini fritters that we often had and, and these little bites that allow you to just sit, relax and dig in and talk to people and enjoy yourself.

32:10And then later on, it kind of, the meal just blurs into, okay, and here's another dish, you know, a main course or whatever. So it was really fun to see that that is still the way that people eat in Greece, in that part of Greece. And I think for me, some of the things that were very inspiring were our last dinner at the farm, at Pescesi Farm, if you remember that one, was really, really exciting for me. The whole like cooking outdoors was really fun. And so I'm really, I came home just wanting to completely dive into like cooking outdoors, everything on the grill sort of thing. And so that was really fun for me.

33:00And I continue to kind of think about the way that people over there use their herbs, like Greek oregano is one of my absolute favorites. And I'm so excited to be able to use more of it now. So, yeah, I can go on. There was just so much to. Yeah, we share that sentiment. That final meal was was just so memorable. And, you know, having the lamb, you know, you know, roasted over an open flame and and the way that oregano was was used with the vegetables and like a little bit of cheese, a little bit of dairy. But that meal really supplanted the idea that real moderation with animal products, lots of olive oil, lots of fresh vegetables.

33:47And really, again, I felt so great when I got home. I was like, man, I need to eat this way. And then, of course, I went right for my Haagen-Dazs. I hit it hard. So I fell off the wagon really fast. But it gives me a lot of aspiration, frankly. Yeah. It's okay, though. I feel like sometimes when we beat up on ourselves too much, it does the opposite. It makes you like, okay, well, I fell off the wagon, so there's no use. I'm just going to, you know, but it's okay. I think eating the Mediterranean way, we allow ourselves a chance to indulge once in a while so that we know, you know, it's okay. Tomorrow, we're going to get back to normal.

34:28If we're celebrating something and we're enjoying ourselves, that's all that matters for the moment. The Mediterranean Dish, Simply Dinner. It's so terrific. And really, I get really a sense that this is a book that you can cook from. And I'm just thrilled that you got back on the horse. You wrote another book. It's so terrific. I love it. Thank you. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate it. Taste Travels 25. I'm going to let you we've been talking like offline quite a bit. What can you say about our future plans that you want to do you want to say any give any hints or do you want to do another trip?

35:06What are you thinking? Well, I am thinking if people want to see the Mediterranean or other parts of the world and really dive into culture, food, people, the whole thing, they've got to try one of these taste travel programs. You know, be it with the Mediterranean dish or I know that you're doing other trips as well with other renowned chefs. And I think, Matt, that this is a very unique experience. And Stace Travels is one of those just once-in-a-lifetime opportunities because the program is so custom-designed that you just cannot help but just dive right in to everything. And it's well done.

35:58It's well organized. Everybody's – and I've seen some of the feedback that people have sent back from the Greece trip, from the Italy trip. and nearly everyone was so blown away by just the amount of packed activity, but also the balance of all the things that we partook of while we were there. So I, for me, I'm excited to do another Taste Travel experience with you in 2025. And it's up to you if you want to tell people where you feel like we want to go next. Because it's your program. I'm just in it for a good time. Well, thanks for sharing that. I really appreciate it. And I just will add that when we go on the road for Taste Travels, and we've got some trips with Jenny Rosenstrock and Mauricio Leo planned for next year, and Susie Caracci, of course, as well.

36:53And really, when we go on these trips, they are, of course, all about the food. And we talk about cookbooks a lot, too. We talk about the journalism that we do here at Taste. and really we bring to life a cookbook. And I think that's a big part of these trips is having an open conversation basically every day about recipes, about home cooking. And it really brings a lot of the work that you and I dedicate our lives to, to life for these travelers. Absolutely. And we get to meet some very unique and amazing people who are doing big things. I mean, last time in Greece, We met almost every day. We had some interaction with local experts and we learned something new.

37:40I don't think you get that close to a culture without talking to the people. And Taste does that very well. And I really highly encourage anyone who's looking to do a unique experience, a travel experience, to look into what Taste is offering. Well, I'll just say that we're looking at a location that is one of the most iconic cities in the world, set on the Mediterranean, dining late, small plates, cured meats, lots of seafood. You can guess for yourself. We'll announce it later this year. Yes, we will be announcing later this fall. And I cannot wait, Matt. It's going to be another epic experience.

38:23experience and you are a just the nicest person to the nicest travel buddy anybody can have and also just full of knowledge and very very generous and hospitable and just a lovely human being and people should be traveling with you um for sure you're so nice the feeling is absolutely mutual it's really all true and and i always look forward to our time together i always learn a ton from you. And so thank you. Well, feelings absolutely mutual. And we really get have a great time with the travelers. On This Is Taste, we discuss about the discerning taste. So just close this interview, Susie. Here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.

39:06How are you ready to take it for the third time? I think you've got some new answers here. I am. I am ready. Because, you know, we change and like, you know, I love when I have guests back and friends back because, you know, you go back and listen to some old episodes. But listen, Our tastes change. The taste check is not always the same. It's true. The best fruit. Watermelon. You got it in the South. You got this great sauce you're going to put on top of it. I'm going to turn to that recipe this summer. I love it. The worst vegetable. Parsnips. Tough one. Tough hang. Yeah. Although I feel like I can jazz it up, but I'm never motivated enough to do it.

39:46Yeah. It's a hard pass for me too. The best dessert? Baklava ice cream. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. That orange dessert we made at the cooking class in Athens was that too. Talk about that a little bit because I think you developed a recipe using a dried... Hilo dough. And you make sort of a custard and you dump the whole thing in one big bowl with that custard, with the phyllo, with a little bit of sugar and you bake it like it's a cake. And it comes out so intensely flavored because there's a lot of citrus orange zest in it. And then we finish it up with a little cream on top. And it is just simply good.

40:40So it's kind of an in-between a pie and a cake. A wet cake, so to speak. Because you pour a little orange simple syrup on it. Yeah, it's drenched in orange simple syrup as soon as you take it out. And it's just, oh my gosh. Yeah, it's great. Your favorite American fast food chain?

41:04Chick-fil-A. Yeah. I'm in Atlanta. Yeah, it's your home turf. Yeah. Okay, your favorite cookbook of all time? Aside from the Mediterranean dish, I've been looking at your latest one, Matt, I'll have to say. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Korean all the way. Korean world, baby. Korean world. And I've been really enjoying it because I actually really love Asian food, all of it. And so I don't know much about Korean food. And I've been looking at your book lately. All right. I love that. You know, Atlanta's got the most amazing Korean community. Yeah. Buford Highway and Duluth. Yes, we do. We do. Yeah.

41:45Your favorite recent cookbook discovery? I don't know if I've recently discovered anything else. That's okay. Yeah. Let's skip that one. I'll close with this. And to close, your favorite sandwich. I'm still between a shawarma pita and a falafel pita. I don't know why. Those are two. I can never get far away from those. You can't go wrong with either. Yeah. So fun catching up with you, Susie. I hope to see you soon. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste.

42:29Jeremy Solomon, welcome to This Is Taste. Good to see you. Well, thank you for having me. I'm a huge fan of your restaurant and your cooking. Augie's is, or Augie's counter, goes by both, I guess. Remarkable. You're doing an all-day concept. You've got a pastry counter. I'll let you talk about it more, but you've got this restaurant at night, and it's modern Hungarian cuisine. And I've been a few times and I'm just blown away. So congratulations. Well, thank you. Yeah, that means a lot. It's been a wild roller coaster from November of 2021 now. So I'm very proud of everything we've accomplished.

43:05Yeah, you should be. And it's very difficult to run a restaurant. We know that. And really the fact that you're able to do a concept that is open all the time, basically, and keep it running. How do you do it? Set us up a little bit about what the restaurant's doing right now. Yeah, so we're inspired by, well, in terms of structure, we're inspired by New York luncheonettes and diners and diner culture. So from the get-go, I always wanted to do a restaurant that was all day. and I didn't quite know how to do that because I was bred to be a nighttime chef. That was pretty much the bane of my career.

43:49So having a daytime restaurant that would transition seamlessly into nighttime and a wine bar felt incredibly awkward and daunting. But I opened up and the daytime menu just really took off And I was very surprised, quite honestly, to be known for like morning things and biscuits and deviled eggs and all things that are so delicious. And my team makes really well. But I was pleasantly surprised, but also just like, oh, wow, I didn't know I could do that. Yeah, well, it's incredible. At your young age, the fact that you're doing such a complicated pastry program, breads program, and then at night it flips and it becomes a James Beard finalist dinner service, which is just the wine service.

44:44and we'll get into what modern Hungarian cuisine means. The dishes are, I mean, I put one on Instagram and I swear I had four chefs reach out. Your beet dip. Oh, sure. And tell us about that dish. Yeah, the beet dip. So I have a friend that loves sour, I mean, who doesn't love sour cream and onion dip, but when we were opening up Aggie's, we just kind of lived off of the sour cream and onion dip because we would crash with her at her house. So we actually, yeah, when my boyfriend and I were opening up Aggies, we did not have an apartment yet. So we were couch surfing with friends and family. And we loved the sour cream and onion.

45:22And I was like, I really wish there was a way to like create an Eastern European Jewish version of this. And that's kind of how the beet dip was born. And just a lot of onions, a lot of onions, garlic and sour cream, yogurt and beets and herbs. And yeah, it's finished with smoked trout roe and served with fresh chips. So really nice chips, too. And I was going to close that thought. I had forced us to reach out and the plating and just the way it presents is gorgeous. It's your plating skills are phenomenal. It's just great stuff. Well, thank you. Yeah, well, that's largely due in part to my team.

46:01They're also very, very good platers. Yeah, I think your food is something that is beautiful to look at. But then it follows up with the fact that it hits in the real in the seasoning and it comes down to having balance with acidity and seasoning. And I think I wanted to segue and ask about Hungarian cuisine. It feels like a cuisine that hasn't been swept up with our love of Europe, of either Eastern Europe or Western Europe. Of course, we know the Mediterranean countries, but even like Germany and other countries get a feel a little more praise and press. And with this said, you've been able to take these Hungarian dishes and make them modern and feel fresh.

46:46And you write about this in your book, Second Generation. Why is this cuisine so unique? Yeah, loaded question, loaded answer. Hungary in general is a very complicated country. What country isn't? But I think it has this really incredible rich history that folks don't know about or tend to overlook. It's also, I mean, currently it's political territory is also really complicated, as is ours. but it's got one of those stories where it's like I was always kind of just championing for it and I would read I've read I've read a bunch of history books on Hungary and notably George Lang's The Cuisine of Hungary which was an inspiration for me he starts off with like like four chapters worth of of history on it and it's if you just peel back the layers it's really been influenced by so many different other cultures and yes you could say that about other things but you can really kind of see it and dig deep and kind of pull from different eras and flavor profiles and stretch things and that's what i thought was really cool about hungarian cuisine is that it can it it's not just what you see on the surface there's definitely stuff below By the way, you just got to dig.

48:07Oh, yeah. We'll go over some of the dishes. We know chicken paprikash and goulash are these kind of canonical dishes that we know in American food culture. But there's so much more. And for me, I've been to Budapest. I've been to like Lake Milan and travel through the wine regions. And, you know, it's a country that lost the most Jews in the Holocaust. You know, the Jews were eradicated from Hungary during that time. And so that's deep history. And then, of course, you've got a Soviet history, too. And it feels to me when you talk about the layers, you've got these multiple layers. And really, when you think about writing about in second generation, are you looking at the Jewish side, the historical side?

48:49Are you looking at the Soviet side? How does that work? Really? Well, the concept for second generation really started before Auggie's. If anything, the book was kind of the seed for Auggie's Counter. And at the core of all of it is my grandmother. um agi and i wanted to kind of open the the doors to hungarian cuisine shed new light on it but almost in a way of following my grandmother's story so i'm not really focusing necessarily on on hungary per se i am but i'm agi's counter and the book are in in tandem kind of inspired by her journey from Hungary when she fled in 56 during the revolution.

49:35She went to Austria, worked her way through Europe, came to New York, met my grandfather in Queens. And there's just that story and that food is like this, it's just like a train ride through all these different things. And so it's really about her and then Hungary. No, Jeremy, thank you for clarifying. It's a really strong statement. It makes a lot of sense now that you say it that way, how it is more of a family history and a story about immigration. And now you've kind of unlocked a little bit in my brain about, okay, this now makes perfect sense. And it's a cuisine that I find deeply fascinating and I love especially the wines too.

50:18You really are on to something. Let's go back to when you were a young 'un. When you were nine, you declared to your parents that one day you would become a chef. Yeah. And now you're a chef. How did you know at nine? Yeah, I think about it sometimes. And my mom likes to remind me that that is, we were on the way home from school. And I just said, you know what, I think I'm going to be a chef one day. And she's like, yeah, okay, great. Yeah. You know, you wanted to be an astronaut, you know, the day before and whatever, a soccer player the day after. But no, I really stuck with it and I owe it to these three women in my life, my mom and both my grandmothers, because they really made food at the center of everything, the good moments, the bad moments.

51:06it was a way to just cope with life. And I just, all my like big discussions and big life changes have mostly happened over food. And I think the idea, maybe, you know, I didn't think about this when I was nine, but maybe in some way, shape or form subconsciously, I just, I wanted to like have that superpower. I wanted to be able to produce something that could comfort somebody. and I would also come home and my mom would be watching soap operas and then Rachel Ray would come on at whatever, like that four or 5 p.m. time slot and then Ina and then Paula Deen. That just kind of naturally, I would do my homework in front of the TV and watch with her.

51:51And so, yeah, I think it just brings me a sense of comfort. I love that sentiment. And you mentioned a few names, but looking back and it could be not just as a young 'un, but when you were at the CIA and starting a career, Who were your culinary heroes? From day one, I was a big Jada De Laurentiis fan and Emeril Lagasse. Like those were the two. Because that's all I knew. That's like all I knew when I was, you know, 10. No excuse needed. Yeah. Those are great people. Jada sat in that chair that you're in like a month and a half ago. Yeah. She's the best. I have all of her cookbooks. I got a couple of them signed and I am definitely a fan.

52:32And, yeah, I would say also Nigel Slater, who was a cookbook author in the UK, and he was one of the first cookbooks I bought. It was called The Kitchen Diaries. He's somebody that I really looked up to, although more of a cookbook author, not necessarily a chef, but I think he is. And, yeah, those were kind of the realm of which I was brought up in. Yeah, those are great, great mentors and I guess mentors in the printed sense. But take us to the CIA. You went to Culinary Institute of America. What's that experience like for you? Is it a two-year program? Is it a four-year? What did you end up doing there?

53:14Yeah, so I was told to go to school, to go to CIA specifically by every chef I had worked for. So I had a career, I'm putting quotation marks on that, in through like seventh and eighth grade and then into high school that's how i like paid for my car and um i worked for todd english yeah for a year um when you were in seventh grade when i was in eighth grade i worked for todd english um wait that's low-key insane dude you worked in a like kitchen yes grade i grew up in florida south florida yeah bokeh specifically and he had a restaurant called Wild Olives. And it was a popular restaurant at the time.

53:58And I remember I had eaten there and my dad leaned over to me and he said, you should ask them if they're like, would take you one day a week. And I was also before that I had like been scooping martini glasses full of sorbets at my, there was a local country club in Boca Raton, Florida. There's like hundreds of those. So I was looking to make a, you know, I was like, yeah, sure. I should be in a restaurant after school because why not and I got friendly with the chef I came in like once or twice a week and I would help them make their flatbreads and cookie dough and uh and so that's that you loved it oh yeah I it was I should have been like for anyone my age I should have been terrified but I just something about it just really blew me away what did you love about it was it the craft I mean are you you're obviously a craftsman you you love you're an artist um did you love that part did you love the people like what was your jam there I can relate this back to the CIA I really hated school I was not a fan of school and so anything that took me out of that environment.

55:10And also I just, I know it was never somebody that had a big friend group with people my age. So I always got along with people that were older than me. So being in the kitchen setting really nourished all those needs. And yeah, just learning things that were new. I was always very into like things that were hands-on, obviously making like the flatbreads at Wild Olives and And rolling out, they had like pies on the menu. And so it was just a very stimulating experience. So when you were at the CAA, when you said you hated school, was that, did you hate like high school or did you actually hate the CAA too?

55:48I hated high school. Okay. So what's CAA like then? Yeah. So long story short, culinary school was just not for me. And like I had mentioned, I was told that I had to go. I buy chefs at Wild Olives. And then I went to work at this bistro called Brulee on Atlantic Avenue in Delray. And it's like a kind of place where Brulee would be. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. On Pineapple, you know, in Pineapple Grove. And so I was just kind of force fed that. And I was like, OK, that's what I have to do. I got to go to culinary school. I never took my SATs because they weren't required. for that. And yeah, when I got there, I definitely was, you know, big eyed and was wide eyed.

56:36And I was just, everything was, I was like, Oh my God, I'm in a place where I can learn to do what I love. And while I think that rang true through halfway through the experience, there came a point in time where I said, I come from this working background and I really miss just learning on the job. And also there was a student debt looming over me and having to, you know, knowing that I was going to have to pay that back. I really wanted to just start working as soon as possible. So you left after a year? Left after a year, right at the like their halfway mark where they transition you into your intern internship.

57:16Oh, so you were like, I don't want to have to pay to be an intern I would like to actually go work and get paid right so I left on my internship I went on my internship I moved to the city uh to New York City and I wound up working at Prune on First Street and heard of it yeah yeah and I remember Gabrielle Hamilton um had said to me like this is your reset button like everything that you thought you knew throughout the door like Like, you're now working in New York City. Like, you have to learn everything again. And that was terrifying to hear, but also incredibly valuable. And validating that you wanted to, like, that's her saying between the lines that, okay, you went to culinary school to get a background.

57:59But, man, you're going to learn the real shit now. Yeah, it was eye-opening. And I loved it so much. And I had actually, I was listening to a radio show podcast that had Andrew Carmelini on it. And he, at the time, was talking about going to culinary school, not going to culinary school. And in that, like, I don't know, 45 minutes sit down, he convinced me that I just definitely do not need to go back to school. And you end up working with Andrew. And I sent him an email, like, a year later being like, so I listened to that show. And he responded to me. So that's how I got my next job. Stuart did, which one did you, La Condoverde?

58:39La Condoverde, yeah. Oh, wow. So let's go back to Gabrielle Hamilton, though. I feel we don't get too many folks in on the show talking about their experience working at Prune, which is now kind of like a private event space. They're not really doing service. What did you do there and what did you learn? Yeah, I was a line cook in every sense of that position. and prune is a notoriously small New York City kitchen with this really cool basement that feels like you're in a maze with all these brick walls. It's like quintessential New York of a very specific era and time. And looking back, I think I like romanticize it, but it definitely, I wish restaurants like that, more of those existed.

59:30And they still do, but it's definitely something that is of yesterday. And while I was there, I worked the line. I did saute. I was on grill and fry. Gabrielle, and I admire her so much for this, is that even though she was this celebrity chef within the industry and, you know, author and writer, and she could have been anywhere else, like she would be on the line, running the pass, plating the food. and she would I'd be like right behind her and she would look back and she'd be like that doesn't look good enough or you need to do this redo this again that's not how we plate like and so I learned a lot of my plating skills from her yeah because the way that she would play it was very it was like effortless like it looked the end result was this beautiful effortless thing but it was really painful to create it and to like see her because her vision of of food is so specific to her and it's not just like oh i'm gonna take a sauce schmear it through the plate slice yeah it wasn't like negative space and john george style this is like gabriel hamilton downtown and i and i see a lot of it just like in your caesar with caraway rye the way that's plated in a way it's structural It's like it's actually vertical space the way you do it inverted.

1:00:49And that's feels like prune to me. Yeah, there's definitely I learned I learned a lot from her and learned a lot from the chefs that work there. And at that time, I was actually the sous chef was Dara Tesser, but also I worked with Mishama Bailey. And so I had really great teachers and colleagues that I was fortunate enough to learn from. Yeah. And you work with Andrew Carmelini as well. And you you start kind of building reps, obviously. How long do you work until you get kind of a bigger chef job? Because Augie's is not your first kind of running the show job. You had previous jobs too. Yeah.

1:01:25Well, La Conda, I continued as a line cook, then wound up doing, becoming like a junior sous chef where I was kind of working a bunch of different stations on the line. And then from there, worked at Bouvet and Via Corotta as a junior sous and eventually found my way to a restaurant called the eddie which was in the east village i reapplied as a line cook and worked my way up to sous chef and then eventually took over as chef so yeah i had a i don't know if i would call it a not normal trajectory but you certainly put in the reps and put in the work i mean i think there's no normal there's no normal yeah totally and the eddie you know you got great reviews there and i think i first heard your name at the eddie which is a great restaurant but then you decide obviously you want to do your own thing you've got your your grandmother's story you've got both grandmothers actually and when you open in 21 what's what's going through your mind we're just under the pandemic you're opening a restaurant what's happening then so i had left the eddie and at that time my boyfriend michael had moved over to the west coast so we were bi-coastal and for a job and so when the eddy closed i was like well i have never been anywhere else but the east coast and might as well just go try something new so moved out there helped open up um this wine bar uh that had austrian roots called the asset and in what city uh it was in los angeles right near uh sunset junction is it yeah junction east side yeah center junction yeah um and so when we were living in echo park and i had toyed with the idea of really opening up a restaurant obviously that for me that had always been like the end goal but i'd been working on second generation and like little by little i'd kind of come back to it and then also the restaurant but i didn't have the funds to do anything about it.

1:03:31So yeah, I, when the pandemic hit and ESSEC closed and I had all this time as did the world. So I said, well, I better hunker down and start coming with a business plan and sort of piecing it all together, realized that I needed to move back to New York in order to make this thing a reality because this is where people know me and that's where I was going to get the most support in every way, shape, and form. But not only that, then I also launched a Kickstarter and we fully funded the restaurant with$65 ,000. That's amazing. Which is like not heard of for a restaurant on a platform that sells tech and games.

1:04:13Yeah, usually it's just like projects. I mean, when you kickstart Aggies, what's the promise? Is it just like they just gave you money and were like, go for it? Yeah, I mean, you give rewards in exchange. like you'd be like well when we do open if we do open you'll get a free cup of coffee or like a tote bag and it says a lot to raise 65k you know off a kickstarter to start a restaurant you find your space in crown heights like what's what's the build-out like what's that what's going through your mind opening in that neighborhood and deciding that this is gonna be an all-day scenario yeah well the the space that we're currently in was known as butter and scotch which was this really cool uh bakery boozy dive bar um and actually the site of my very first pop-up that i had done like seven years prior to that so i knew the space and i had a couple friends that had lived in the neighborhood so i knew there was definitely folks that were around my age and would probably come to the restaurant.

1:05:23And yeah, opening was, it was a first for me. I had never opened up a restaurant before. So that was completely new waters to explore. Walls were coming down, although I don't know if I should say that here, but so walls were coming down and there was countertops that were shattering and, you know, we hired somebody then they quit even before we start because blah blah blah and it was just you know it was the the trials and hours of being a first time we've seen that tv show yes we've seen it and and we know and it's real i love to get into some of the the the recipes from the book second generation and let's start with a good old-fashioned chicken paprikash um it reminds me you know paprikash is this dish that is both foundational to hungarian cooking but probably misunderstood and you know buying good paprika is important right how are you doing this dish and and why is it a little bit misunderstood yeah so chicken paprikash was made uh weekly by my grandmother uh so it's something that was very normal to me and at the the core of it is good paprika sour cream and chicken and a lot of onions and you really can't go wrong there and i i think more people should invest time into making the dish because it is very simple to make.

1:06:50It's braised chicken stew. But yeah, good paprika is kind of at the core of it. And that's really hard to come by here in the States. How do you do it? I'm like, I'm actually asking you because I want to buy some because when I went to Hungary, I bought some great stuff and then I haven't been able to repeat that. Yeah, it's sadly, there really isn't like something super duper close to it. But I will say that Burlap and Barrel has their Noble Paprika and the Sagetti Hot Paprika, which are the closest that I have found to being pretty on point. Otherwise, you get this kind of like touristy stuff that they sell in like these red little satchels.

1:07:33And it's just it can almost taste rancid. So I think most people's idea of paprika is just very it's just non-existent. I know because the stuff you buy from McCormick has, you know, that's the stuff you see dusted on deviled eggs. Yeah. Which doesn't have much flavor. And then, of course, the tourist stuff is rancid probably from markets. So, yeah, Burlap and Barrel, it's a good pick. Let me ask you about goulash because you ask readers in the book to forget about everything they know about goulash, which is funny. Why so? So silly. I say things and I'm like, why do I say that? Why did I say that?

1:08:04Because it's fun. It gives us things to talk about on shows. Um, yeah, goulash is kind of ugly. Uh, if you, you know, take a step back. Pretty beige, pretty, pretty, yeah. Yeah. And it's usually made with this chuck meat, you know, or just throwaway meat that can be really tough. And at least that's how I was raised on it and served with egg noodles or bread. Um, also some like freshly cut bell peppers. But I wanted to, same with paprikash. I wanted to explore different versions of these dishes that wasn't limited to one item. Like I have made a shrimp paprikash before. I have made whatever, a quail paprikash or a pigeon that we served at Aggies.

1:08:50Or with goulash, we do it with, we've done it with beef cheek and short rib, which is the version I feature in the cookbook. So in that sense, it's like taking something that's, to me at least, is so fundamental, but can be applied to so many different variables and meats and proteins. So I felt like goulash was a great kind of like jumping point. Yeah, use it as like a mission statement almost. The way that Hungarian cuisine can be cooked. Enjoy that. Savory peaches and cream, kind of chef-y, but that's cool. I'm not like criticizing it. I'm actually loving it because I want to make it. How do we do your version of peaches and cream?

1:09:33Yeah. So something that we made at Auggie's counter and I love stone fruits. So, and that's just inherently Hungarian and Eastern European of me, but having, you take goat cheese, you cut it up or pull it apart and you marinate it in like this really fragrant toasted fennel seed and oil. There's also some other spices in there. And then it gets draped over marinated stone fruit that sometimes we toss it in like lovage vinegar, chamomile vinegar, and olive oil, and then just throw a bunch of herbs on it. And it's really just really lovely. I sense a theme with pickling fruit. It seems like acidity in fruit is something that you really embrace, you know, cherries or even blueberries and definitely with the peaches.

1:10:26Now, let me ask you about the pastry program, your pastry chops, because they're real. And I'm like, this is the kind of restaurant we have to save room at all costs for dessert. And let me ask you, how do you think about your pastry case, your baking case? First part. Second part is what is the genesis of this amazing cheesecake that everyone talks about that Auguste cheesecake is amazing? Yeah. The cheesecake was developed by our opening pastry chef, René Hudson, who modeled it after the juniors cheesecake yeah and which is such a solid solid yeah and i well i wanted a dessert that on the dinner menu where there was just one dessert and and it was done incredibly well that's always was something that really piqued my interest because desserts at any restaurant are like always a hard sell there's always a lot of waste um but pastry chefs put so much time and love into them.

1:11:24So I wanted to showcase something that I just felt like really brought all that together. So the cheesecake was born and I wanted to put olive oil on it, which, uh, Renee absolutely did not want to do. And, um, it wound up really taking off and people really jived with it. So, uh, yeah, it gets the olive oil, the flaky salt, the lemon, and then we added the blueberry compote to it. Um, and I think the lemon in olive oil is incredible addition. And then when you walk in during the day, there's incredible bakery program. And you you have so many baking recipes in this book. What draws you to that?

1:12:00Yeah, well, I, I've always loved baking, I've considered taking the pastry chef route, but, but I didn't. And I loved, I really love taking savory aspects and combining them with, with sweet application. So yeah, I mean, it was really important to me also because Hungarian cuisine is, has these really incredible desserts that not a lot of people know about and tiered and they go sideways and up and down and, um, the list goes on and they all include fruit for the most part, um, which I love. So it was important to showcase that at the restaurant. Um, yeah. It's a sneaky book in terms of the pastry ambitions in it.

1:12:47It's a smaller trim, and you might think it's just like Hungarian, but it's like really a beautiful pastry book. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Great job. I have two chapters on pastry. I know. It's really notable. Why didn't you become a pastry chef? Why did you decide to run your own restaurant? I decided not to be a pastry chef because I, maybe like most savory chefs, just get impatient and don't always have the patience to like, I mean, I love figuring things out, but it's definitely, you know, being a pastry chef is so, so intensely methodical and strategic. And I'm always looking to just bounce and do the next thing.

1:13:30Yeah. Not that I don't take the time to figure things out, but it certainly was. Yeah, it was a hard it would be a hard it would be hard for me to do. Yeah. I get it. You understand your limitations, but you you also have to be the boss. Yeah. Which is a different skill set. Yeah, I to be able to like move from the kitchen. I was just talking to my employees and I was like, I have to find something that I can wear that I can like, you know, like a like a Superman costume where like I can transition from the kitchen to the front of working the front of the house to like doing admin work to meeting with vendors to working on a cookbook.

1:14:07and they don't make one outfit for that and maybe someone should. Or maybe I just haven't found mine yet. But to wear all those hats is, yeah, it's a hard juggle for sure. I love hearing your story and I recognize the difficulty. This is an Ed Anderson book, which I've worked with Ed on a book as well. And I love Ed Anderson. Talk about working with him. He's one of my favorite photographers around. Yeah, Ed worked on some of my favorite cookbooks. 12 recipes by Calpenter now was really where I solidified my interest in calling him up. And he happened to be around the same time that we were shooting the book here in New York.

1:14:51So working with Ed was just so easy and so comfortable. And he's like somebody I wanted to, like, I would want to have been friends with him in high school. Like he's just completely chill yeah uh and his process is just like yeah like i said it's just so it's it's effortless so he really is an effortless uh photographer he he can definitely style prop style as well which is nice and and how long was the shoot two weeks yeah yeah which was i liken it to summer camp uh i think back on it and i was like we were just it was the best group of people especially for my first time doing a shoot. And it was every day.

1:15:33I would just, it was in the flower district. At a studio in the flower district. Yeah. And, you know, that scene in the hours where Meryl Street is like, I think I'll buy the flowers today. It literally was right there. Oh, wow. And so it was just, it was beautiful. And it was, it felt like camp. And it was a good time. Yeah, it really, it really delivers. It's a beautiful book. We were talking off mic before we got on mic, and I need to bring it back to the mic. A second location is in the works. What can you say right now about what you're planning? So it is not an Auggies 2. It leans away from that narrative a little bit into a new narrative that is also deeply personal to me and explores just different roots of mine that I've always wanted to.

1:16:26a little bit more Southern. I spent a lot of summers in North Carolina and I, it's a cuisine that I've always wanted to kind of dive into, but maybe like, you know, I'd referenced Gabrielle Hamilton. It's very specific, my version of what I think Southern is to me. Yeah. Which is influenced by a lot of different things. So yeah, we'll, I guess everyone will find out when it opens. Yeah, are you planning to open this year? Yeah, hopefully for like mid to late fall. Yeah, excellent. Is there a name yet? There is a name. It's called Pits, which was my nickname growing up. It was my father's nickname for me, P-I-T-T-S.

1:17:13That's so cool. That's a great name. And I can see it like written out too. It's a cool name. It's a great space. And I'm really excited. We have a really great team that's being formed. And yeah. What neighborhood? Same neighborhood? Different neighborhood. But that I'm not going to sell right now. You've like started saying some things. I'm like, all right, I'm going to push my luck and ask for the neighborhood. I'll stop with the neighborhood. All right. We'll stop there. But we'll look for pits opening in the fall. I'm sure it'll be really well covered. And man, I hope to have you back when we can talk about pits.

1:17:48Yeah. On This Is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Jeremy, are you ready? I think so. The best fruit. Stone fruit? Nectarines? Nectarines. Love that. The worst vegetable. There's no such thing. But this is very chef-y. Cardoons and fiddlehead ferns don't make any sense to me. Yeah, fiddleheads taste like ass, man. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know what to do with any of those things. Definitely. But luckily it's like a two-week season in the East Coast. It doesn't matter. uh the best dessert my grandmother's uh german chocolate cake it's i don't know just it's top top of the line it's super nostalgic for me it's her version of it um she always called it a german chocolate cake and as i got older i was like this is not a german chocolate cake but it was because of the chocolate that she used um they called it german chocolate um but it's baked in a bunt and it is just, it's so aromatic and fluffy.

1:18:54And it's just like my favorite thing. I love that you, I mean, German chocolate cake is not from Germany, it's from Texas. That's where the chocolate company is from. And it's cool, I will look for that. Okay, your favorite New York City restaurant right now that is not your own. I have been frequenting diner a lot. And the last time I went was just like maybe two weeks ago. The menu was just so on point. Everything was just so good. Their iteration of the chicken each time. They had a pate and a trifle for dessert. And just, yeah, it's so easy and beautiful. Definitely, yeah, diner. Diner's really great.

1:19:36You used the term effortless. Yeah. And that's diner to me as well. Yeah. That's, like, I know that they source from the market. And they're it's such an institution now that like, yeah, I don't know. Everything there is just really beautiful. Your favorite American fast food chain? Dairy Queen. Into that. What's your order? The brownie earthquake. Wow. I mean, is it like a brownie sundae basically? Or is there what's the earthquake? I'm not familiar. Yeah. So it's soft serve. It comes in like a plastic bowl. and then they put a bunch of hot fudge and little tiny brownies on it. Yeah, it brings me right back to Fridays after elementary school.

1:20:22Yeah. I was a big kid, and I loved my brownie earthquake. Listen, you were appreciating food at a young age. I appreciate that. A few more. Your favorite cookbook of all time. That's really tough, but if I had to, can I list like three? Sure. Okay. Is that all right? David Tanis' The Heart of the Artichoke, The Kitchen Diaries by Nigel Slater, and The Cannell House cookbooks. Yeah. Those are maybe like my top. Very literary books. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. A favorite recent cookbook discovery? I knew about it before, but Bill Neal's Southern Cooking. Yeah. And there's another book that's kind of like a little bit of an anthology of a bunch of other recipes from Crook's Corner.

1:21:07and so I've been reading those lately which I really love. Give us one menu item at Pitts. Working on this veal sweet bread over putinesca. Also we're doing like this pimento with mortadella. Two separate dishes. Wow. So pimento mortadella with like. Yeah with fried saltines. I was like using the motion of a cracker. I was thinking Ritz but fried saltines is even better. Yes. Like seasoned fried sultines? Yeah, yeah. Like firecrackers? Like firecrackers. Oh. It's going to be good. Yo, of course it's going to be good with good mortadella. That's like nice. Yeah. That's nice. You got good skills here.

1:21:47A cuisine you would like to learn more about? Cuisine I would like to learn more about. It's not necessarily a cuisine, but I've always wanted to learn more and understand more about fish. It's not something that's like in my wheelhouse as a chef. and while I do work with fish currently, it's just not, I want to know more. So learning more about sustainable fish and fishing and how I can best prepare things because it's always been a bit complex and daunting to me. So maybe learning more about that might make me a better chef. That's really neat to hear and knowing your limitations as a chef, as an accomplished chef, as a James Beard finalist is pretty rare.

1:22:31I think most people of your caliber would be I Know Everything or Loki. No, absolutely not. I love it. It's so good. Last one, your favorite sandwich. My favorite sandwich is the American Combo at Court Street Grocers.

1:22:48Yeah, that is my favorite. It's just so, it's got the ham, turkey, the pickles, the slaw, secret sauce. Yes. It's got everything you want in a sandwich. or the Kai Rizdal from Wax Paper, Los Angeles, which is a tuna salad with celery and pickled peppers. Lauren and Peter, I actually know them. They're the owners of Wax Paper. I used to order that all the time from them. That's my favorite radio guy too, Kai Rizdal. I love him. I don't have a lot of experience listening to him. I knew him first as a sandwich name. Yeah, you knew him first as a sandwich, which is even better. So, yeah. But anyway, yeah, those are my favorite sandwiches.

1:23:34That's great. Jeremy Solomon, thank you so much for joining. This is Taste. Thanks for having me.

1:23:46Eliza, how are you doing? I'm good, Matt. How are you? We're doing a series of segments that are previewing our great fall season. We haven't seen every book, so we're not calling these the best and the greatest. We haven't been able to assess everything. But these are books that have jumped off the Amazon page, off of the books, our magic page, off of the omnivore pages, our favorite indie retailers. They're the ones that really we're looking forward to. And again, plant forward is the category. What is your first book to chat about? My first book to chat about is called Easy Indian Vegetarian by Chetna Makan.

1:24:19Chetna's name you might know from The Great British Bake Off. She also has done a couple of cookbooks, including Healthy Indian Vegetarian, which came out in 2020, which was one of my kind of comfort books during the early pandemic. I think she makes really great recipes and I'm just excited to have a new one from her to add into my rotation. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Jenna and I love that she is maybe going to come to New York and do an interview in our studio. So we'll look forward to that. My first book is The Weekday Vegetarians Get Simple from Jenny Rosenstrock. Jenny is a longtime friend of the pod and has published a number of books.

1:24:55We may know Jenny from Dinner, A Love Story, a series of books from about a decade ago. But The Weekday Vegetarians is a popular sub stack. And Jenny is just one of my favorite recipe writers, like straight up. She makes really accessible, simple recipes that have vegetables and are vegetarian focused. She's not saying that you should always have a vegetarian diet, but she's mostly cooking vegetable focused and vegetarian-focused. These are 100 accessible, stress-free recipes to make plant-forward cooking more streamlined. And really, she's focusing on the streamlined part here. Some of her, I would call more of her streamlined recipes in this collection include sheet pan gnocchi with butternut squash, mushroom charred bread pudding, crispy eggplant bowls with pistachios and basil.

1:25:40So she's really using the larder that we all have around and really focusing on streamlining dinner, getting it out on the table in an hour or less. And I just love Jenny's recipe writing. So this is a terrific collection. What's your next one? I just want to say the idea of a savory bread pudding really speaks to me. So I'm excited about that book as well. Totally. I love a savory bread pudding. It's actually great for like entertaining. People like a bread pudding. It looks nice on the table. Yeah. And it's just comfort food purely. Totally. The last book I'll talk about is called Big Vegan Flavor.

1:26:10And it's by Nisha Vora. And it is truly a big book. It's 600 pages. and I think is kind of just hitting on this idea of cooking like fully plant-based, really craveable, delicious food in so many different ways. Nisha Vora has a really big following on Instagram and TikTok. Rainbow Plant Life is her handle, which you've maybe seen before. And I think there's just a lot of recipes in this book that I'm really excited to cook. And the techniques behind them are cool. Like there's a recipe for miso butter seared king oyster scallops. So she's turning mushrooms into a scallop, but she's brining them ahead of time, which is what gives it this really good kind of texture to make it really tender, which I have cooked many mushrooms in my life, but I've never brined them before cooking.

1:26:49So I'm excited about that. There's also a recipe for like a chai spiced custard tart with mango, which just sounds like something I want to eat a lot. And I think this is another example of somebody who's developed a really big following online by knowing what people really want to eat and figuring out how to make it easy to actually cook. And so it's cool to see that be translated into a book. I'm really looking forward to that one. And speaking of big books, this is an absolute doorstop. Mastering the Art of Plant-Based Cooking from Joe Yonan. I've gotten a chance to actually hold this book.

1:27:23We got it pretty early here in the office. It is a really amazing book to hold. It is 300 mouth-watering recipes for flavorful staples, weeknight meals, and celebratory feast. Now, Joe Yonan is a name that we all know. He's the food and dining editor at the Washington Post. And he wrote a regular column called Weeknight Vegetarians. And really, I like Joe's sensibility. These are extremely well-tested recipes. And I'm just a fan of tackling this topic and calling it Mastering the Art. Wow. He's delivered on the promise. And it's 300 recipes. That's like a lot, like 300 recipes. A couple of those include smoky eggplant harissa dip, a citrus and mango salad with fresh turmeric and cucumbers, Enchilada Five Ways and Black Sesame Swirled Cheesecake.

1:28:11So he's really covering the gamut of plant-based cooking. And really, he also has a lot of great reporting in there. You know, this gentleman is a editor at the Washington Post. So he takes the journalism really seriously. For anyone who's trying to get more into plant-based cooking, this would be my pick. It's really a big book and I enjoy it. Yeah, I think it's cool. Also, his last book, Cool Beans, was the title. Yeah. It was a bean book. is kind of, I think, like a step on the way up to this one because beans are obviously such a huge staple when you're doing plant-based cooking. So I like that he kind of mastered one corner and then said, okay, let me take a whack at the whole spectrum.

1:28:48Well said, Eliza. And I agree. He's really like, his ambition is super high with this book. And again, I can't imagine the proposal, 300 recipes is like tremendous. And I don't think you're gonna be disappointed with this book. There's so many more plant-based books to talk about throughout the year and we will, but thanks for sharing yours.

1:29:09This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.