472: How Gen Z Really Thinks About Food with Casey Lewis

27:40Put it on after pay. That is a second conversation about afterpay and about the actual financial repercussions of this type of consumption. I think status snacks are here to stay. And again, I'm going to stress Andrea Hernandez, Snack Shot on Substack. You should be definitely reading it along with After School. Follow her on Twitter, too. She's so great on Twitter. Yes, she is spicy. Love Andrea. The tea is hot from her. Definitely. All right. It's interesting. we're into this conversation a bit and we haven't talked about YouTube. And to me, I follow media a bit and I read like, you know, the semaphores of the world.

28:17And there's always something about YouTube and something about Gen Z being big. But like, I don't know. And I wonder if these streams are really coming from the younger generation, Gen Z alphas, or if it's like parents putting their, you know, the kids in front of YouTube who are two. What do you think about YouTube right now? The research I've done on YouTube, I should say the research I've done on YouTube, but not physically on YouTube, because I spend no time on YouTube. Yeah, I spend a lot of time reading about YouTube. Casey, you're not the same. I spent way more time reading about it. It is such a giant.

28:52And in my research and also conversations with gen alphas and gen Zs, they are spending so much time on YouTube. It is their TV. And what YouTube has that TikTok doesn't, they can really just put something on, put it on in the background and let it run. TikTok, you just don't have that ability to like embed yourself in an influencer or a TV show or, you know, whatever. But I think, you know, cord cutting is not even a topic anymore. There's no cords. Yeah. The cords have been retired. They're in the earth. Yeah. And YouTube, you know, young people grew up watching YouTube. And so they already have that very strong relationship.

29:31Earlier this year, I went to VidCon in Anaheim. And I felt like I was looking into a world, that world being YouTube, that I had spent no time on or in. And, yeah, I mean, all of these years later, when I was at Teen Vogue now almost 15 years ago, So YouTube creators were just starting to really take on the conversation around them was very, very loud at that time. And like Lilly Singh came to the office and she was massive at that time. Massive. And they're still going. YouTube is still going. It's still going. It's like a quiet powerhouse. It's still quiet. And I'm with you. I don't spend a lot of time on YouTube.

30:13I watch Doobie Doobop's episodes. I love Tina. She's terrific. For me, when it comes to food and YouTube, there's only one name that comes to mind. It's Joshua Weissman. Joshua Weissman, and you don't know who he is because I can read your face. Which I think is like so interesting about this platform that is clearly so significant. But we're just missing it. Not you. I'm missing it. And media is missing it. Because like look at the numbers and look at the platform that everyone who's smart about the stuff it says is growing with the young generation. And I look at Joshua's numbers. He drops vids.

30:46usually on the weekend, and he's in top 20 trends. For a food creator, I think that's remarkable to be in a top 20 trending list for food. And big shouts to Joshua Weissman for creating content that is compelling and creative in his team. Joshua is a terrific creator. But it's just so interesting that we still think about TikTok as being important for food, but in fact, you remember YouTube better. So Casey, I want to ask you a personal question, more about you, I know you have an interest in wine and wine writing. And I think that's really cool that you are taking the time and really have an appreciation for this.

31:26So first, just you personally, how do you think about wine and the future of wine, maybe as your own like connoisseurship changes or just how you learn more because everyone's learning all the time about wine? So I'm interested in wine personally, but something I think about a lot is the future of any of these industries, right? Wine being one of them. But with Gen Z consumer habits changing and sort of seemingly always shifting, it makes me wonder what the sustainability or, you know, the future of any given industry looks like. So wine, let's, you know, consider Gen Z is drinking less than any other generation.

32:02They are constantly renegotiating their relationship with wine. They are taking breaks in ways that other generations wouldn't have. You know, I've talked to so many young people who are just like off alcohol just casually, which now I think millennials have picked up on that as well. But it's astounding to me that a 22-year-old living in New York, just graduated college, is taking a couple months off just for the hell of it, not for dry January. And so I think often of what things were like when I moved to the city. I moved to the city in 2010, you know, right out of college. I went to University of Missouri, was in a sorority.

32:48The drinking scene there was one thing. And then coming here where sort of your social life revolves around happy hour. But happy hour in 2010 was often craft beer bars. Yeah. Craft beer bars largely don't exist anymore. Some do, but like the last. It's a dead category. Yeah. The last great one in Williamsburg just closed, the one that was attached to St. Anselm. Oh, wow. And it's like. Sput in Dieville? Yes. That closed? It closed. I remember going there in the early 2000s. Yeah, I mean, I would go, my friends and I would go there, you know, we were young. We could hardly afford that beer because it was fancy beer.

33:19But we'd still want to go. It was a good scene. And now there's just no craft beer bars. There's some cocktail bars. But if you're going to go just have a casual night with your friends, you're probably going to go to a wine bar. Because in the last five to ten years, there have been all these interesting wine bars opening up. Sauced, I think, is a big one. Ten Bells. Yeah, of course, the original. Yeah. And it's like these places are so different than the wine bars when I was young and in the city. When I first moved here, there were a couple of wine bars in Williamsburg. They felt so stuffy.

33:52And so I'm just constantly thinking about how industries are shifting and wine in particular is shifting. And Stranger Wines is my local wine store. And every time I go in there, there's young people in there. Part of this is because I'm getting older. So the people that work there, they feel like young people to me in some cases, and they're not like 22, you know. But these kids have so much input and so much thoughts to share on wine. And so long story short, very interested in wine, both somewhat to drink it, but also just what it stands for as a macro trend. Yeah, it's very cool that you bring up a couple topics here that I would like to discuss.

34:35I mean, one is the NA movement and how Gen Z is clearly shifting towards NA and thinking about NA products. We mentioned a few, but also just like sobriety in general as like a trend or as like a movement. And I agree. I've seen so many young folks who've taken months off with when I was growing up in New York, it would be only dry, dry, daniwary or never, to be honest. And so I think the products are on NA, NA beers. We've written a lot on taste, but also like water. I think mineral water is going to be way more of a Gen Z thing once the mineral water companies do a better job of marketing, frankly.

35:09Yeah. Although I do have something to add there. There's something really interesting among a lot of Gen Zers in that they don't like bubbles. Or what we would call maybe fish. Carbonation. Yeah, carbonation. They're very resistant to it, many of them. So it's going to be interesting to see what happens with, for instance, champagne, but also mineral water. You know, will La Croix's reign end with millennials? I do not know. Such an insight and never have heard that. And I trust you because I like your work. To be clear about mineral water, just to not correct, but just to say La Croix is not mineral water.

35:44That is truly like that's like seltzer with flavor. When I talk about mineral water, I'm talking about actually flat, mostly. But also like mineral meaning from like a source. I see. Like water from Poland. Jordan Michaelman's written great stuff about mineral water for taste and others. So mineral water that's from Czech Republic. I see. From Spain. And having water actually be appreciated and purchased. Not maybe as a social status symbol but also just as a culinary element. Yeah. I love that. And I think that there are so many more things to explore beverage-wise when you're abstaining with alcohol now versus 10, 15 years ago.

36:26And so I think young people can go to restaurants and they can go to bars and they can still explore, you know, have something that they've never had before, taste something interesting, have that experience with friends. But it doesn't have to be alcohol. It's so interesting. I had in my notes I was going to bring up Dime Square and the new Dime Square, which is Times Square. So I went to Time Again last night. I walked by around 1045 and like my time at like Ledeve and some of these bars in that area. I've seen like, yes, people have been drinking and been social. So last night, interestingly, it was like 1045 and time and again was like shut down.

37:01There were cops around the perimeter of this like area, a little triangle. But interestingly, it wasn't holding back. All Gen Z was there. It was like literally all Gen Z. It didn't hold anyone back from like still being there and hanging out. Many people did not have drinks in their hands. And it was clear that like the alcohol part of this group wasn't the focus. It was more about the community. It's like a one, obviously one example, one small sample. But it was really striking to me. Yeah. I mean, were they doing other things? So that's like always the caveat, right? When you're talking about like sobriety and like NA movement.

37:40And like it's great. I'm glad you brought it up. Like, is it? Yeah. Is like THC like bigger? Is cannabis bigger? Yeah. Is other stuff bigger? Hard to say. I don't know. And that's more for you to answer. Yeah. Well, so in conversations working on various pieces around sort of what is the larger story here, some people told me that, you know, when they abstain from alcohol, they might pop an edible before dinner. And a couple of people mentioned like mushroom chocolates. And I do think people are dabbling in these, you know, you can get a slight buzz. You know, they're not getting like fucked up, but you can get a slight buzz and have just as much fun as everyone else at the table.

38:21And also like your inhibitions are lowered a tiny bit just to be along the same lines as everyone else who may be imbibing, you know, maybe drinking wine. So, Casey, we haven't mentioned millennials that much and we haven't really mentioned alphas that much. And it's becoming nature is happening and millennials are having alphas. Talk about the way food kind of works between the millennial moms and dads and all and the children. This is one of my favorite things to talk about. I in the past have studied Gen Zers the most just because they are the youths. But as gen alphas take hold and we're gen alphas are born literally right now up to like 13, 14.

39:07And there are many of their parents are elder millennials to young millennials. You know, people have kids at all ages. And so observing how millennials who have very specific consumer behaviors are trickling down to their alpha kids and vice versa, because 11-year-olds can have a lot of influence on their parents' decisions. And I think, you know, especially Gen Alphas who have so much screen time and are seeing so much even on TikTok where it's like, I'm seeing Gen Alpha daughters recommend makeup to their millennial moms. Like there's a lot of interesting stuff happening. It's still such a young age group that it's hard to really make any sweeping declarations about their consumer habits.

39:56But we can look at millennials and say, okay, millennials are obsessed with, you know, organic or they're obsessed with like very niche or almost like status-y items, whether it's like the best white crustless bread from Fresh Direct or, you know, an organic avocado that they can get from the avocado guy on Instagram. Yeah, that guy's name is Peter Romero and I work with him. Yeah, I mean, but it's like the specificity, I think, that millennial parents, these are their preferences. And because millennials have so much access to these things and, you know, you could dream up like I want to have the best avocado in the world.

40:47And you could Google that or, you know, the juice guy. Yeah. You know, it's like these people who are like creating the best versions of whatever thing and millennials treat themselves to it. But then they have alphas and then they're like, well, I'm going to give my kid that, too. Like, you know, my energy is being transferred. It's being transferred. And, you know, I think that there's also millennials are I'm going to make a sweeping statement here, but they're doing pretty well as a generation financially. eventually they've reached a point and they're you know figure the youngest millennial is 28 goes up to 43 43 i mean i think like 82 is probably the cutoff i'm you know yeah around 81 so you know they're sort of in the prime of their career at this point many of them and so they're willing to spend more and i think because of covid food became such a especially food at home became such a source of happiness and fleeting moments of joy that people are willing to spend more on food than ever before.

41:47And also because delivery became such a thing that they can be very particular about the brands that they want. And then their kids are also growing up with these fancy ass palettes. So cool. You connected some serious thoughts there, Casey. Amazing, amazing point there. This, again, transition of energy from millennial parents to alpha children. Wow. Lots to think about there. I want to close and ask you about Gen Z. Are you optimistic about this generation? I'm so optimistic about this generation. I am an optimist at heart. I'm a tech optimist. I just – I spent three years writing this newsletter and really deeply studying shifts and behaviors and what happens next.

42:37And there have been some dark times, especially politically over these last three years. But I am so optimistic about Gen Z as a cohort moving the future forward. They, you know, are multifaceted just as millennials are. But I feel good about it. I love that. I love that optimism. And I want to have you back and ask you about more about the way that youth culture is really is leading trend in food and drink. It's so smart. Casey, on This is Taste, we asked guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? I'm ready.

43:15All right. The best fruit? Watermelon. Amazing. So for you, what is the ultimate watermelon experience? Well, it has taken me a while. So I grew up in the Midwest where I could just go to the grocery store, buy a massive watermelon, come home and cut it. Then moving to New York that first summer, I was like, shit, how do I get this massive watermelon? So it's been a bit of a learning curve living in New York and being able to have the amount of watermelon in the summer that I would like to. But my dream watermelon experience, well, I can just eat the whole thing. Like I would just like want to cut it like long ways and take a spoon and just like knock it out.

43:53The worst vegetable. Onions. I'm not an onion girl. Oh, my gosh. I know. I know. I know. It's divisive. Cooked are okay, but a raw white onion makes me want to cry. I mean, it literally will make you cry. It will literally make me cry, but if you had to make me eat one, I would literally, I would, yeah. Listen, like raw onions can be a tough hang. Yeah. Can be a tough hang. And like there's the right time to use them, but there's also many wrong times. So I'm with you on that. I'm not going to like fully co-sign in that, but it's a pretty good answer. The best dessert. I love ice cream. Specifically, not to bring it back to Leo, but Leo Pizzeria's homemade soft serve is my ideal dessert.

44:33It's they change the flavor seasonally. So it's very like fresh. It's homemade. There's a drizzle of olive oil, a sprinkle of sea salt. I love it. But I love soft serve generally. The most Gen Z food. The most Gen Z. Okay. Chia seeds. We haven't talked about that. But tadpole water is this obsession of Gen Z girls on TikTok right now. Sort of problematic dietarily because many of them are drinking this in hopes of losing weight. But hey, chia seeds are healthy and they are high in fiber. And if you want to slurp them down via tadpole water, then I guess so be it. I love that. What about the most Gen X food?

45:16Oh, gosh. I have to say Gen X is a blind spot for me. Yeah. Because I'm a millennial. Yeah, yeah. What do you think? I would say the cappuccino. Oh, the cappuccino is a good one. It's the most. The cappuccino and cigarettes. Yeah. As a meal. Cappuccino is definitely from a third wave coffee shop or even Starbucks. Wait, how about this? So Gen X, their meal is a cappuccino and a cigarette, whereas Gen Z is a matcha with a zin on the side. Oh, we got to get. I mean, that right there is a full conversation. I feel like that's going to be a debate one day that we should have. Your favorite indie retail shop for food?

45:58I live by Big Night in Greenpoint. And it's just Catherine. She's such a talent. I love that place. I can go in there and get an awesome dip or just something to make my meal better. I just love it. I love it. I shop often when I can. I love it. That place, yeah. I will say also Marlo and Daughters. I don't know if you would consider them to be indie, but as a butcher shop, they are so good. I've never had something bad from there. It's a great shop. So great. Exactly the answer. I love that. Your favorite cookbook of all time? It's got to be Alison Robin. Which one? I feel like such a fangirl.

46:32Her first book is literally the only cookbook I own. I don't really cook, except I have cooked. She helped me. She, via her cookbook, helps me roast my first chicken. Amazing. It was a hit. I love it. Yeah. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food? Outside of America? Yeah. You know, Copenhagen really is, I think, I just love like everything about it. I had one of the best burgers of my life there, but I haven't been there for a while. But yeah, I think Copenhagen is really good. It's a great city. Yeah. It's a super cool answer. I did go to Greece last summer, and at first it was like so novel because I love Greek food for the first couple of days.

47:12And then by like day eight, I was like, oh. Yeah, you'd love some sushi. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know the feeling. But Greece is cool. Greece is so cool. Yeah, yeah. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Oh my gosh, this is, I'm so happy to plug this. So my favorite sandwich in the world is Court Street Grocer's Ham and Cheese, which I think you cannot do wrong from Court Street Grocer's. But I feel so passionately about their ham and cheese, a sandwich that I had no feelings about prior to having the one from Court Street Grocer. I think the best is to take it to the beach and enjoy it there. It's even better after like the hour out to the Rockaways.

47:48Oh, yeah. Needs that transit time. But oh my gosh, I die for that sandwich. Their BLT is also very good and I do sometimes switch it up. But if you've not tried their ham and cheese, please do it. I love it. Casey Lewis, after school, definitely smash that subscribe. Such a great read. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you so much for having me.

48:16I'm here with the BO boys. We're just going right in cold open. There is no need to intro these gentlemen, but I will anyways. We've got Pat Stango across from me, longtime producer of This Is Taste. Clayton Gumbart is here to the left of me, longtime producer of This Is Taste. Yeah, I feel like I'm more like producer emeritus as it comes to taste. I hang around. I pluck my head in. I say, oh, everything's going good. Yeah. All right. I'll leave now for a couple of weeks. Yeah, you'll leave and do your own thing, which is like your job here running video and audio at Penguin Random House. You're the guy in the tie who comes into the job site and makes sure everything's all right.

48:56Yeah, yeah. Never seen Pat in a tie. I have to say that. Never seen you in a tie. You know what? A little bow tie. I'll come in a little bow tie. Bow tie would be great. Yeah, I'll come in a little bow tie. All right, Pat, tell me about the B.O. Boys. I'm a huge fan, but let our listeners know we're linking to in the show notes. what is the B.O. Boys? What are the B.O. Boys? I'm using different. I would say why the B.O. Boys? Because Box Office Matters. We are a box office podcast. Clayton and I, twice a week, we recap what happened at the movie Box Office. We look ahead to next weekend because the thing about movies is liking movies is subjective, but money speaks.

49:34And so the only way to truly judge a movie is how much money did it make in the box office? That really is the only way to rank movies. And so that's what the B.O. boys are here for. And Pat, I think there's like a real, really unique situation with film and movies that you can't really compare with like television and music is that when you have a budget that's very transparent, you have then a gross that you need to hit to make money. and then if you hit that number, you're successful. Like we don't talk about budgets of TV shows that often and never talk about budgets for albums versus downloads, but we have, it's like real math.

50:18Yeah, and people care because no one has ever cared how much a song costs, but they do care about how much a Jurassic World sequel costs for whatever reason they do. And so that's why they listen to the B.O. Boys because it matters to them how much these movies cost, what they make. You know, it's – Matt, when did you start following movie box office? I feel like we all have our time when we first realized that box office exists. Were you someone like us who would follow it in the newspaper every week when you're a little kid, see how much there's something about Mary made in its eighth weekend, ninth weekend?

51:00I feel it's a great question. and thank you for turning it on the tables on me. I think for me, I was definitely more of a spin reader than an EW reader. And I think that speaks to many listeners. So music to me was like my world that was like revolving around as a child. But to answer your question, I really think Titanic was the one that for me, I understood that when you started having this movie around for six months in the theater, that was unique. And then you started actually talking about the Billies, The thing did, obviously,$2 billion at the box office. And for me, what about you guys?

51:38Clayton, when did you start covering it? It was Titanic for me as well. I mean, something about Mary Run was, of course, generational. I think it's something that we all sort of know where we were when we saw that movie start going up, which is rare for movies to start moving back up the charts. But it was just that dominance that Titanic had and all the close calls. I know like the Grease re-release almost beat it. And I can't remember what week it was, but it was in the teens where the Titanic was still number one. The man in the Iron Mask, Leo versus himself. Yeah. Because really the only person who could have beat Leo in that year was himself.

52:19Right. Didn't happen. But I mean, also, I think the summer of 89 was a big one, too. If you're talking about when we were little babies. Was that when Ghost Dad hit the charts? You know, Ghost Dad's not a huge box office hit. It was Batman. But Batman 89, of course. Last Crusade. Last Crusade. Yeah, summer of 89, depending on your age, that's a real box office summer that ignited a lot of people. How about you? What's your origin story, your genesis story? I mean, 89 is a big one. I was eight at that time, so I was really starting to follow the box office in the New York Daily News every Monday.

52:55The Jim Carrey year of 94 is a big box office year for me because that was really seeing a star go from nothing to having three huge box office. Is Liar Liar one of them? Liar Liar was a few. Liar Liar was an early comeback vehicle for Jim Carrey. Okay, what are the three? It was Ace Ventura in February. Then in July, you had the mask. And then December, it's Dumb and Dumber. Three huge hits in one year. Wow. That was huge. Those numbers are still big. and you talk about it on your great show. And I'm just going to say it is really a fun show. It's a fun hang with you guys. You guys are really compelling hosts.

53:32And really what's cool about the show is you back into talking about the slate of movies, which is what we all kind of want to hear is like what's out, what's good, what's not. You have your thoughts. But then, of course, there's numbers behind it. There's numbers. There's got to be numbers. You can't just say something's good or not. You've got to give it numbers. Give it numbers. Clayton, let me ask you. I feel like this idea of the box office bomb and like the interest in it is like schadenfreude schadenfreude. Is that the right way? I always miss. Schadenfreude. You know that term? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

54:03It's when you when you revel in the misery of others. Revelling is is true. And I've had I've had some issues with the German language on on the show. Oh, I have to edit it. I know you do. You have to edit every word. And that is while you're doing God's work. But Clayton, talk about the idea of us like reveling in misery and box office bombs. Well, it's interesting because I do think it's it's like anything when you watch somebody make a mistake or fail. I mean, I think there's a lot of people who it's enjoyable to watch that happen. You know, people who watch hockey for the fights, people who go to NASCAR for the crashes.

54:42I think there's also a level of wanting to then see redemption. Right. I don't think everybody just wants failure, failure, failure. I think they want people to be able to bounce back. When you look at somebody who is like Will Smith, who has had his problems. And there was a question. Is this bad boys movie going to do Bafo Bobo after the slap? And this year, that movie was one of the leading lights of the summer that sort of, not sort of, actually brought us out of a dark May, where you had Fall Guy that underperformed. You had Furiosa, which was a complete tank job. and then you have the star who was on the wane and people were like are people going to go see him and they did and i think there's a level of both sides people wanting him to fail but also people wanting him to succeed because at the end of the day when where it goes the box office goes the culture right and when the box office is thriving when people are out and social and buying popcorn and they're buying now and laters and they're buying king not me man that's a really that's a really not the one but it's not what do you buy and not snow caps either i'm obviously Reese's Pieces Reese's Pieces if i'm talking about box candy uh it's definitely Reese's Pieces so was this from ET this is ET famously put those on the map oh he certainly did and like the marketing around that was incredible like they were able to like you know take that that scene and sell like a billion boxes of Reese's Pieces, which is still like a little inferior to peanut butter M &Ms.

56:22I don't know if... I'm an M &Ms guy at the concessions. That's my go-to. Since this is a food podcast, let's just go off on this for a second because I know you're a fan of the Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. Yeah. And you love the seasonal ones. Yeah. Now, why don't feeders have a specific theatrical only Reese's Peanut Butter Cup that you can only get at the theater that has a different distribution of the chocolate to the peanut butter filling, which is what you like, right? What is your favorite? You like the pumpkins, am I correct, or the trees? I would say pumpkins are number two. The trees are number one.

56:58The trees are number one. But Easter can really be a pleasant surprise if the ratios are hitting. Easter eggs. Easter eggs. Great. So what would be the shape for the theater, do you think? I mean, if we're talking about - Popcorn bucket? A popcorn. I mean, for a theater, I thought we were talking about actual releases. Yeah, I mean, do you want a little—would you eat a Reese's Pieces that— That's shaped like a tiny popcorn bucket. Or that's shaped like Joker. See, exactly, Pat. I'm thinking that more like the actual movie-specific. Or like you have Smile 2 coming out this October. Would you eat a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup that's shaped like the Evil Smilers from the Smile movies?

57:33Or just a big smile. It's just a big smile. It would be like banana-shaped. But it's a scary smile. Can you imagine the opportunity for shoving more peanut butter into a smile-shaped Reese's? And then you could put it in your mouth and show the chocolate teeth and you could go to your friend and be like, huh? There's definitely like some social media elements. I feel like Reese's needs to hop on this and get into this, into this like novelty Reese's for movie specific. Pat, back to you. Let me ask you, this season, Clayton, you laid out some really good examples of like some tanks and some successes.

58:07But for you, is there a movie that just outperformed? It doesn't have to be like it made the most money, but like outperformed more than any. Well, I mean, there was it ends with us, the Colleen Hoover adaptation. And we're all in the book business in some way. Yeah, she's on the wrong side. She's, you know, she's on the she she's not a company person at the where we put, you know, we're all one big family. Yeah. I mean, Colleen Hoover, I think, you know, life is long and contracts are short. Exactly. So there you go. Let's let's come over. We could all run into each other at the kitchenette someday.

58:41But that's a movie that people and I'll pat ourselves on the back, which is something I like to do. I'll have myself on the back. Your name is Pat after all. Exactly. So I have to do it. But I did call that early in the summer. I mean, I think we both did. We sort of knew how big those books were, how rabid that audience was. But that was not a movie that the general, you know, movie analyst culture was pegging to be as big as it was. I mean, that movie did. It's over 100 domestic. It's giant hit. You know, Blake Lively. I think a lot of people don't realize how much of an audience she has. So that that was a bit of a surprise.

59:21I mean, Inside Out 2, everyone knew it would be a hit, but it's so much bigger than even the first one was that it is somehow become a surprise, even though the first movie made a billion dollars. it's hard to surprise when you have a bill on your on your previous movies you know bottom line but that movie somehow did that yeah well that's gonna that has to do with anxiety obviously the breakout star the breakout star on all the pajamas all of the blankets all of the sheets I mean you're gonna see anxiety anxiety is the new Cinderella I love that anxiety can be branded it's really good I mean at this point for the younger generation Who needs Mickey Mouse?

1:00:04Right. Just put anxiety on all the Disney merch. Right. There was a good amount of drama in the behind the scenes for that movie, too, that probably led to some success, right? Like, lively feuding with the director, co-star. I mean, or, like, please inform us. Is that just like a dumb media story that no one really cares about? I actually don't think it affected the box office either way. If anything, maybe positively just because it kept the movie's name in the news cycle a little longer. But it really is just people love that book at people. And they wanted to get that type of movie that you don't get a lot.

1:00:46You know, they want to see a female-led romance movie and movies with robots and movies with dinosaurs and movies with superheroes. They all do well, but once in a while you want a movie that's not robots, not dinosaurs, not superheroes. That's just people talking on a roof. And that's what it ends with us was. It was just a couple of people talking on a roof, talking in a flower shop, falling in love, falling out. You know, whatever happens in that movie. You know, when you talked about box office bombs and people rooting for bombs, maybe there are people out there who root for bombs. But the B.O.

1:01:22boys, we always root for the box office. I love it. We shoot a trait when a movie tanks. We talk about it. You know, The Flash, we talked about that. That movie bomb. Anything that bombs will go into it, but we never root for a movie to bomb. No. And I think we hope our listeners, we're all positive. It's a positive box office community. You want the community and the industry to succeed, but I'm going to take a negative and continue this conversation. Clayton, let me ask you, the past five years, biggest bomb that you'd say, it doesn't have to be necessarily the amount of money lost, but it's just like the biggest bomb.

1:02:02I think the one that really sort of made people scared was the Marvels. And I want to be clear about this. The Marvels did not bomb because of who that focused on, who that movie focused on, because the leads were all female. That is not the reason that movie bombed. The reason the movie bombed is because Marvel, the MCU, had been putting out very bad movies in succession. I mean, Quantumania, Ant-Man Quantumania was a movie that opened really big, but nobody liked it. And that was sort of the turning point of people moving away from superheroes as the thing. And the Marvels just happened to come out after that came out.

1:02:55The other thing was DC was eating dirt. Black Adam. I said that for weeks and weeks on our show. Weeks and weeks and weeks. Everyone knows that. Flash, as Pat mentioned. So the tide had turned on superhero movies and the Marvels really paid the price. And that's one that I think had the MCU and Kevin Feige scrambling to change what they were doing. And they have less TV shows, less movies. I think you know they have some they had a Deadpool and Wolverine a you know that's a that's a a now it's sort of tied to the MCU more than it was because of the merger but I think a big success correct yeah big success huge success but the thing is with superhero movies is you're not going to be able to make a success out of Guardians of the Galaxy or the Marvel's these small time comic book characters you can't just put them in a movie and expect people to go it's got to be marquee Deadpool is marquee Spider-Man is marquee batman is marquee and joker was the crown jewel i mean joker has won two oscars yeah and joker is one of the biggest stars maybe the biggest stars in hollywood just joker yeah but joker and leo those are your two brother we're talking my language i love leo yeah i love my leo but fully adieu even with gaga who we love yeah the buzz isn't great on this movie so we'll see, can even Joker fail?

1:04:24It would be a big shocker if that failed. I mean, the marketing around it has been, I think, pretty tremendous. I think the ads have been really good. And Pat, let me ask you, does marketing actually matter as much as they put the stock into it? And does a good name and a good poster and some good placement on the NBA or NFL, does that actually matter? I mean, it's definitely tougher now because there's not the monoculture there was when we were growing up. You know, you can't just put all the movie ads on must-see TV Thursday night, you know, during your Caroline the City and your - Single guy.

1:05:00Yeah, single guy. And 30 million people see it. So it's spread out. So it's more scattershot. You know, the thing that Clayton and I talk a lot about when we look at marketing on the B.O. Boys is who has to eat the wings? You know, who has to go on Hot Ones? That's when you know a star is really - That's such a great metric. Who's going to eat the wings? And who doesn't have to eat the wings? And who doesn't? Like right now, Leo doesn't have to eat the wings. Leo's never eaten the wings. But Killers of Flower Moon did okay at the box office. Maybe not as well as they had wanted to do. So it starts to make you think next time Leo has a big studio release, does he have to eat the wings?

1:05:43and I still don't think so I think Leo but one or two more movies from Leo that don't hit the$100 million then I think Sean reaches out to Leo's people and says I think it's time for Leo to eat the wings even though Leo is a vegetarian so that's going to be a tough one it'll be cauliflower it'll be cauliflower it'll be call wings I mean I'll say this in defense of my man Leo and that film was produced by Apple and I feel like a little bit away from box office, you know, I would say the target for that film was to get subscription to Apple, right? And they gave them And Oscar nominations And like the prestige and make them the next, you know, Sunday night HBO, which has been ineffective.

1:06:26Those shouts to Omnivore on Apple TV Plus. We had the PR people from Apple in here and they were like, make sure to say Apple TV Plus, but if you have that subscription service, what a great show. Well, when we're talking about the wings, there's someone like Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise was a guy coming off of Maverick. Right. Saved theaters. We thought, there's no way Tom is ever eating these wings. He's too big, doesn't have to. Right. Then the Mission Impossible movie comes out. Right. Dead Reckoning Part One. Dead Reckoning. Just Dead Reckoning. Well, it's always been Dead Reckoning. It came and went fast.

1:07:02So that movie comes out, only has one weekend in IMAXs. then you got the steamroller that's barbenheimer right he is a guy that went from never going to eat the wings to it's possible this guy's eating the wings it's possible he eats the wings and and that's how hollywood is you he would have to eat the wings though jumping out of a helicopter you know like sean sean is gonna be on like a one of those like two person um um um yeah yeah Parachutes. Oh, okay. I thought you meant to be like on one of those Wright Brothers planes where they're each on a wing because he would have to eat wings on a wing.

1:07:43That's walking the wing. Yeah. And he's eating the – I mean, this is Tom. I mean, he touched the Hollywood sign. The guy's jumping from space. He has a space movie where he's going to be jumping from like a satellite. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's definitely going and doing a space thing. Speaking of Tom's, let's pivot to Tom Hanks. Okay. Isn't Tom Hanks kind of box office poison? Oh, so Tom Hanks, obviously he's never going to be where he was in that historic 90s, early 2000s run. Maybe the greatest box office run we've ever and will ever see at this point. Well, it's box office and not the, I mean, we're big awards guys too, but it's box office and awards for him that's what made that so insane.

1:08:27But it was every year,$100 million hit, Tom Hanks, the greatest movie star. Even Turner and Hooch made some money. Even Turner and Hooch made a little bit of scratch. But that 90s, 2000s run, historic, he's never hitting that again. I think he was in the wilderness for a little bit. And I think he's found himself at a certain level. Because all these 90s movie stars, they all had to figure it out. You know, Julie Roberts, George Clooney, Denzel has stayed pretty steady. He's an action movie every two years. Gladiator 2, he's got coming out. Like, he's in a good spot. Tom Hanks has had a couple of hits the last few years in a sense because he was the co-lead in Elvis, and that was a huge hit.

1:09:12He played Colonel Tom Parker. Right, that accent. Right, right, right. And whatever you think of the performance, that was a big hit. And he had A Man Called Otto, which was an adaptation of a book that did, I think, 70 million domestic. Sneaky. So yeah, Hanks is, he's not where he was, but I would say he's righted the ship. He's got that, now he's got an interesting movie coming out in October. He's, have you seen the trailer for Here? It's a Robert Zemeckis movie. His boy Zemeckis. Starring Tom Hanks and Robin Wright. Liked that pairing a lot. Great pairing, Forrest Gump classic pairing. Yeah, exactly.

1:09:52Do you like this though? The movie all takes place from one camera angle from the entire movie. It's a camera that is in the corner of a living room in a house, and we see the progression of this couple from when they're young to old. And that's the movie. So I don't know. It sounds like somebody has been reading a little bit of Mammoth. It feels like this is like somebody's trying to do the theater thing. Well, it starts with dinosaurs. I mean, the trailer shows that we see that there's dinosaurs that used to be where that house is. So I think they speed through that. I can't see it being an hour of dinosaur stuff.

1:10:24but they're going to show if they want if they wanted to be a huge box office hit it should be mostly the dinosaurs yeah yeah it would be very cool if there was like definitely some like scenes where you like peek outside the house and there's like some like just like brutal violence oh yeah that that would be a hit if it's like an hour and a half of dinosaurs and then we speed through tom hanks's family life in that house this is a big question and and and clayton uh you know uh we've I had a lot of conversation about food and film, but I want to get your takes, each of you, your top three movies that kind of revolve around the world of food.

1:11:02I'm not saying it's a food movie, but maybe there's some food adjacent or, you know, maybe it's an overt food movie. So, Pat, you kick it off. Do we want to do the B.O. Boys top three and we alternate or do we want to do our individual top three? Well, I think I'm just going to get into answer the question here. I'm just going to get into it. Do you not have three? Are you not a – No, no. I have three. I was trying to save Pat in case he didn't have three. Oh, I see. But he doesn't need my save. A wingman will do that for you. Pat, give me a three. Well, I mean, I think my three, I'm just going to go because I'm Italian-American.

1:11:37Yeah. And food in gangster movies is almost as important as getting shot in the head in gangster movies. You getting shot in the head is always the most important thing in a gangster movie, but then food is second. So the Godfather movies and Goodfellas, those are my food movies. Those are the ones where I look at everything they do in those movies. I'm like, yeah, that's my life. I love it. So we're obviously talking about in Goodfellas, the iconic scene in the prison. Yes. Slicing with the razor, slicing the car. You got to get it thin. Got to get it thin. So it just melts on the pan. So it melts in the pan.

1:12:16your three platon uh well so my first one is sort of food adjacent as you said was okay yeah no i love it it's interpretive question it's the founder the michael keaton film brother i've said that on the show you know that yeah that i think movie is this was michael keaton's sort of uh comeback after he did birdman uh was the had an oscar stolen out from under him by eddie red redmaine a a black mark on the oscars forever the big o the i i just want everybody to google if you really want to make yourself sad i want you to google after eddie redmaine wins this oscar they cut to the crowd and in the front row you see michael keaton and you see his hand and you see him slipping his his speech his oscar winner speech back into his jacket heartbreaking heartbreaking But The Founder, I think, is an under-watched movie.

1:13:19It's about Ray Kroc, who is known as the mind behind McDonald's. But if you watch this movie, you know the truth and who really built that and what he did. And what I love about that movie is it's about business, but it's also about the American dream, but how you can go from somebody who's struggling to somebody who's thriving and what that does to you. And the way that movie, I mean, you can speak on this, too, because the way that movie makes you root for him and then slowly you realize what sort of person he was or or became. It is so captivating and it's a great performance by terrific and design is great as a period piece.

1:14:02It has real wolf of Wall Street energy, like low key wolf of Wall Street energy, not in a stylistic sense because they're very different stylistically. But like to your point, and I fully agree, you see what money does to the human condition using this iconic brand. Yeah. Great, great film. Number two, I think the definitive chef movie, Burnt. You might know it as Adam Jones. Wow. It's its original name. So this was Bradley Cooper, which it's interesting that they were going to call this movie Adam Jones because it's weird to name a movie. a name that's less interesting than the actor playing the part.

1:14:44Yeah. And this was a movie that I fell in love with. Stephen Knight wrote this. He's a gentleman who's written a bunch of different movies. He also created, I believe he created Weakest Link. Oh, yeah. What a great show. Or He Wants to Be a Millionaire. Early 2000s. He was a British guy. Yeah, one of those big ones he invented. But he's also a screenwriter. And this is a movie I'm a big Bradley Cooper fan. Yeah, me too. And I know it's loosely based on Anthony Bourdain's life. He also did a television show that got canceled, Kitchen Confidential, that was blatantly based on that book. So he played an Anthony Bourdain type twice.

1:15:25Three time might be the charm. Get him his Oscar. But that's a movie that I love unabashedly. And I know it's not critically acclaimed. It didn't do well at the box office, like$13 million, something like that. But it's a movie that I love and I rewatch. I like that. I need to rewatch it. I think there was like a romantic angle that kind of turned me off a little bit. But that was just me. But I'm not going to shade on your – I'm not going to yuck on your yum. Well, I mean is this – because you talk to a lot of people in the food industry. Obviously that's what this podcast is about. Is this a movie that people in the food industry scoff at?

1:15:58I think that there's too much connection between the disastrous TV show and the show. There was like two – it was too close. And I think some writers in food who try to dabble in film, which is I don't recommend, but they still do it. I think they sometimes connect the two as the same piece, which is unfair to Berndt because, yes, there are fans, I believe, in the industry. It's come up on the show. We've talked about film. It's definitely one of those like cult classic films at this point. I would say. Yeah. I mean, I'm part of the cult. Cult adjacent. I could see the B.O. Boys someday sponsoring a screening of Burnt in a local theater.

1:16:37I like it. Like when they come to us and say, oh, come on, we need to get people to this movie theater. B.O. Boys, could you sponsor? Maybe throw in some taste. And taste, yeah. A little taste B.O. Boys collab. B.O. Boys and taste collab on a screening of Burnt. I mean, we could do, and I know. I like that. Maybe Bradley Cooper makes a surprise appearance. I don't know. We'll put the calls in. I mean. We'll do a Q &A with him afterwards. Why not? Let's do it. Invite him. What's the third one? An animated film. And you probably know which one I'm going to say, right, Matt? You want to say it? Everyone goes for the rat movie.

1:17:10Oh, no. Food Fight. Oh, see, I was thinking about it, too. 2012 Food Fight. Charlie Sheen star. I love it. I don't know it. It's a movie about a detective. He's a dog. And he's investigating crimes that have to do with mascots for food companies. So you actually have a character voicing Charlie Tuna. That's pretty cool. They actually use the real IP. They use the real IP. Sweet. And this is a hidden gem. I know a lot of people love Ratatouille. And Ratatouille is great. It's fine. It's fine. But Food Fight is where it's at. So look up Food Fight. I love that. I recall this being a little bit buzzed about when it came out.

1:17:51Well, it was a huge bomb, actually. It made, I think, a couple hundred thousand at the box office. Maybe not even that. Yeah, it was a rounding error move. Yeah, the budget was astronomical. I mean, there might have been some money laundering involved in it. Yeah. Can I turn the table on you? What's your top three? I like a lot. I like Tempopo. I think that's a good one. Number one is definitely Big Night. Okay. Big Night still to me is a classic food movie. and I don't I think like I would say the psalm documentary that inspired a lot of spinoffs and some TV stuff but the original psalm documentary about the training to get certified for like the highest level of wine certification is just it's like truly a lightning in a bottle moment when When you can capture the attention of many people about an extremely boring topic to most people, which is learning about wine, it's not that exciting.

1:18:52But to create that drama around it with some of these kooky characters, I highly recommend that. So I'd probably say Big Night, Tempopo, and Sam. Sam. Is Charlie Tuna in it? Charlie Tuna doesn't make a cameo in Sam, but he could. I always thought he'd be big. I thought it's one of those things where he could translate to leading man because he's a dapper gentleman. Yeah, he's got the looks for sure. I want to close and talk about these live events you're having because I'm going to link to the show notes. You have events in Los Angeles, Boston, New York City, and it's B.O. Boys on the Road. Amazing.

1:19:26Check it out. Pat, tell me a little bit about what are we to expect at a live B.O. Boys show? So we've got L.A. October 8th, New York October 22nd, Boston November 16th. So we're going to be doing talk about what came out that weekend. So the L.A. show, it'll be right after the opening weekend of Joker 2 Folly Adieu. So we're going to break that down. We've got special guests. L.A. we've got, I mean, people are about to lose their minds when I say who we're going to have on the show. We're going to drive off the road. So if you're driving right now, just sort of pull over into the shoulder. Yeah.

1:20:01So we've got Scott Mendelsohn, who is the box office legend. He's the icon. He's our box office daddy, the one who really popularized analyzing the box office through his years of columns at Forbes. So he's our big special guest, Jeff Bach, Exhibitor Relations Co., another huge box office analyst. They're going to be on stage with us, and we're going to be breaking down that weekend, looking ahead to movies coming out the following weekend. So the Saturday Night Live movie comes out the next weekend. A lot of big – The Apprentice. The Apprentice will be predicting that box office. The Lego – the Pharrell Lego movie.

1:20:36So we got a lot of big movies to talk about. But then we've also got short films, did Man on the Street things. Clayton was out there in Washington Square Park, New York. Matt, we talked to Gen Z. Yes. And we talked to, we actually, I think we did talk to at least two Gen Alpha. They were, I mean, maybe very young Gen Z. Bringing the kids in. 15, was 15 still Gen Z, I guess, right? But on the brink. And it's shocking. It's shocking. It's shocking. And those findings, those videos, we're going to show them on the live tour. Special guests, then New York, we've got special guests. Nice. We've got huge movies to break down there.

1:21:16We're going to be talking about Terrifier 3, which, you know, speaking of Halloween, October movies, that's going to be a big one. That's the reverse of a food movie. Yeah. Because people get sick. I'll close each of you. One movie you're most looking forward to this fall. Pat, you first. This fall, you know, Saturday Night, it's a movie about the making of the first episode of Saturday Night Live. And Lorne Michaels in this. you know I finally get to see a movie where Lorne Michaels is basically portrayed as some kind of huge hero and I can't wait to see it. And let me guess he produced the film?

1:21:55Well, I think he gave it a thumbs up. Okay, he gave it a thumbs up. He said go ahead with it. Yeah, so that one is probably not going to be a huge box office hit but as a SNL nerd I cannot wait to see it. What about you, Clayton? Onora. Sean Baker. Have liked everything the man has done. it's about time that he becomes an Oscar darling and I think this thing could be a sizable hit at the theater as well. Pat Stingo, Clayton Gumber thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you Matt. Thank you Matt.

1:22:31This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stingo and edited by Clayton Gumber. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.