484: 10.5 Million Instagram Fans Later with Betül Tunç

0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. I didn't choose dough. Dough chose me. I spent my childhood watching my mom and my older sister making delicious Turkish pastries. And my dad gave me my first child-sized ruling queen and ruling table for my fourth birthday. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbarg.

0:59Betul Tunch is a baker originally from Turkey and the founder of the social media phenomenon Turkaz Kitchen. On this episode, we talk about how Betul crystallizes her unique approach to home cooking and how her outstanding new book, Turkaz Kitchen, traditional and modern dough recipes for sweet and savory bakes, breaks fresh ground in centering a book around dough. So it's a great conversation and I hope you enjoy it.

1:35Betul Tunch, welcome to This Is Taste. This is such an honor. I've been a major fan of your work going back years online. And this is your first podcast interview. It's your first interview. So thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. to talk about Turka's Kitchen with you. So it is an honor to be here. Thank you. Absolutely. And let's just jump right in. What inspired you to launch Turka's Kitchen, which is now, if you're not familiar, a major platform online. You have a very clear aesthetic that is beloved by many millions of people out there.

2:16What inspired you to launch this? Actually, it was out of necessity for connection. After getting married with my husband, we moved to the U.S. And then he was doing his PhD and we were living in Madison, Wisconsin. We have a huge Turkish community in there. We have lots of friends. I never felt I'm a foreign country. It was so lovely at this moment. But then a year later, we moved to Chicago for my husband postdoc. And at the time, Kerem was so small. My son was so small. He was only three to four months old. And we were living in downtown Chicago. You know, downtown Chicago. It is so crowded.

3:09And also, Chicago is so windy, so cold. We were at home with my son and also my English wasn't so good. So I couldn't make so many friends. But I need to do something. So as always, whenever I feel I'm lost and I'm depressed, I find myself in my kitchen again. I was baking and cooking every single day. I was tasting new recipes. like and then one day my husband suggested me to create a social media account to connect with the other foodies and then I was like yeah I think this is the best solution for me to because I was thinking to keep all of my recipes in the same place at the same time and then I thought yeah it would be nice to keep all of my recipes in the same place it would be nice cookbook for my family for my kids and then decided to create my first Instagram page.

4:16And then my journey has started after that. That's incredible. And we'll get into the visual identity that you've created. And of course, all the amazing recipes. It's really, it's magical, I'd say. It takes us to a world that many of us don't know. And you're really warm and inviting. I want to ask you about growing up and And tell me about where you grew up and what was food like in your household growing up? I'm coming from a huge foodie family. And my mom was making everything at home. She was making everything from scratch. And she was making generally Turkish recipes, kind of like soups and stews and delicious desserts and pastries, Turkish pastries.

5:05and also my uncles and my cousins are chef owners they have several restaurants in turkey and i always have a chance to access delicious turkish recipes turkish dishes in turkey i grew up eating lots of like kebabs and mizzes and like flatbreads you know just like a birex lots of delicious food and then when I was a teenager my older sister and I took charge of the kitchen and my mom like told us well and then she was super happy to pass the responsibility for the dinner and she was my older sister was responsible for the dinner and then I was responsible for all of the dessert and pastries and we are both are so interested in the kitchen we tried lots of different dishes from all around the world we were watching lots of tv show we buy lots of cooking cookbooks and we tried everything actually we learn everything together so like i I would say I grew up in a very huge foodie family, so I have always access to good food, you know?

6:26Oh, it's obvious. And having a restaurant family, too, on top of that really made you aware of the range of cuisine available in Turkey and around the globe. And you told me you moved to Madison, Wisconsin, which I went to college there myself. Oh, really? Yeah, absolutely. I have a lot of love. I love medicine. This is my personal, you know, in here. And it's like, it's so similar to Blacksburg, Virginia. It is, you know, like a small city. It is so lovely. I love, I'm a winter person. There is like a long winter days. It was just like so lovely to move in medicine. My first visit to the U.S.

7:11Yeah. And let's talk about the food when you're moving from Turkey. And I love that you're a winter person. Obviously, you needed to be a winter person. to live in Madison. But when you were, when you were first living there, what was it like to, to taste Wisconsin cuisine and, and American cuisine at that? You know, what's funny, Matt, we just, we love Turkish food. You know, just like, I think every culture loves like, every cultural person loves their own culture, cultural foods. And we just for a long time, we just ate at home and generally Turkish food or just like a kind of like a like a limited other cuisines like a kind of like a very common recipes tacos and kind of like a much more french pastry something like that then I decided to just visit much more uh like different cuisines restaurant it was a huge like uh change in my life oh my god I love her cuisine I love first of all we met with Indian cuisine it was so lovely and then and we met with the Mexican cuisine then Chinese cuisine and the Thai cuisine I was like oh my god it is so lovely I feel so lucky to be here because we have chance to taste all of the different cuisine at the same time just like but and also like all of the people are just making like native chefs and restaurant owners making them.

8:39They're so lovely, so delicious. And I learned so much in here. Oh my gosh. Were there any restaurants in Madison that you recall really enjoying the names of those? My memory is so bad. I'm so sorry if I don't remember the name, but there was an Indian restaurant. It was my first restaurant that I eat outside when I was in the US. just it was so good their naan was amazing just i then i told my husband i'm gonna i want to go there again immediately yeah when you have naan for the first time i mean it's it's this amazing texture um let's go back to the launch of uh turkha's kitchen and and and you know you clearly have skills when it comes to cinematography and food styling.

9:34And I mean, your husband encouraged you to launch an account, but what was your background in filmmaking and food styling and creative endeavors? Because I really am surprised that you just started it. I mean, it seems like you have a background at least in film not really i'm a soft though food photographer and video videographer and when i just started my instagram page i always just um the food like the visual of food always so important to me just because the food would invite you first of all like with its visual and smell, right? In Instagram, in social media, it is not possible. Like if people can taste your food or even they can smell it.

10:29So you have them, you make them believe it is so delicious, so good. And you have to feel like, oh my God, I wanted to eat that. So it is so important to shoot delicious photographs. you have to shoot your recipes and your food so delicious and then um like when i just started to shoot all of my recipes it was just like a very disappointment for me they were so awful and then i was super upset i was like oh my god they don't look how delicious they are like because they're delicious but I can't show them and then um I did lots of research and again my husband uh thanks to my husband he's my biggest supporter and um my husband gave me my first DSLR camera for our wedding anniversary and then I think it was the beginning of the new chapter for my life because I loved shooting my food, you know, and I did lots of research.

11:34I was baking and shooting every single day. It was a neat hobby at the time. So then, meanwhile, I improved my skills and here we are. It's an aesthetic that is delicious, first and foremost. I'm so happy you mentioned that it's not easy to capture the cuisine and the taste with photography, but it looks like it tastes great. But it's also really inventive. And I wanted to get a sense of how you landed on this aesthetic, which is a part, you know, it's a lot of overhead and you're shooting the preparation of the mise en place. And you're wearing incredibly beautiful traditional garments. And I think that had a lot to do with, along with the cuisine, the capturing the attention.

12:22When did you decide to wear these clothes? And is this your traditional? Is this what you wear every day? No, no, no. Naturally, it is not like a blonde, any tradition, any culture. They are just like my favorite outfits. And I always loved vintage, Matt. I loved all fashion items. and I always whenever we go to any like a any different city I always visit uh popular antique stores you know just maybe I don't know like because when I was a child my grandma passed away just before I was born so uh my mom we were we used to go to my grandma's house and then my mom loves her mom so much and then she was always so happy when we were at my grandma's house and then she was making everything with her antique tools and then like a you know just like a kind of like a different uh unique utensils and then she was using them and it was always just I have lots of memory about like like this so I think for this reason I love vintage i love old fashion things so much so uh i had a collection just before to start my shoot my all of my photographs and then i you i love to use them in my photographs because they make them more vintage more invited so i think it was the reason why i choose my aesthetic and and also i love fashion i always loved but my my dad is a tailor so maybe Oh, wow.

14:04That's a really interesting part of your story is your father is a tailor and making clothes and altering clothes. Exactly. Maybe he inspired me so much. I love fashion. So actually, I'm so lucky because my job sort of allows me to use all of my hobbies in the same place, you know, at the same time. so I love to design style my outfits for my videos so just it's because they helped me to show my vibe the vintage vibe easily so I think I find my aesthetic with this way so I love that to shoot that kind of like a unique style video so people really love them and people certainly do and you've got millions of of fans uh around the world and I wonder when you're walking around on Blacksburg or Madison and maybe not wearing your clothing for your videos.

15:02Are you recognized ever? Do you get stopped on the street? It is so lovely. This day I'm getting recognized by people. And also they found my house somehow. I don't know how. They sent me some gifts and some cards and they are so lovely. I love, I love all of them. They are just my social media family. and I feel so lucky to have all of them. My outfit's not like this, you know, just I'm using this outfit for only my videos. We've gotten through the aesthetics here and that's a big part of your story because we know you from visuals, but really I want to focus on the book, which is really brilliant.

15:44And what struck me at first was the foundation of this book is dough. And the idea of a book around dough is fresh. Like we have, of course, baking books and pastry books and bread books, but you're not using any of those words. You're saying dough. And so let me ask you, why focus on dough and do we maybe take dough for granted as home cooks? You know what, Beth? There was no other topping for me, for my first cookbook other than dough, because I didn't choose dough. Dough chose me. Like, we have a huge connection with it because I have tons of lovely memory from my childhood. I spent my childhood watching my mom and my older sisters making delicious Turkish pastries.

16:38And my dad gave me my first child-sized rolling pin and rolling table for my fourth birthday. and then I used to sit with them then I used to help them like I'm just telling you help them just kind of like a trying to help them it was just so lovely then when I was a 78 years old my mom used to prepare a real dough as a play-doh and I spent hours to shape and rule it shaping and rolling it and then she end of the day she was she used to cook that and we enjoy them in the dinner so I have lots of amazing lovely memories from my childhood and and then years years later again my one of my first viral video was dough recipe and people loved my dough recipes and I made tons of tons of different type of dough recipes in my instagram page and i was getting tons of questions again betul what is your secret we wanted to make dough just like you how can we make beautiful risen perfect dough just like you can you share your secrets and your tips with us so and then i thought it would be nice to write a cookbook cookbook a dough cookbook and to share all of my experience over 25 years with them and then just like write all of the tips and techniques and what is the important secrets, all of the secrets with them.

18:16But yeah, like in the middle of the process, somehow I realized that it was so painful that I realized that like writing a dough cookbook was a huge responsibility because like dough is, dough can be easy because it has a few easy recipe, easy ingredients that everybody can find their pantry. But on the other hand, it is so complicated. There's lots of tips and techniques behind it. But I'm so thankful I did that. I'm so grateful what I did. I will write the same book again because I'm so happy. Yeah, it's a beautiful book. It's brilliant. And really, it opens up so many doors to cooking with dough at the foundation of your home kitchen.

19:11And one thing dough-related is pasta. And you have a really sneaky talent of creating these really original pasta recipes, hand-rolled pastas. Give me one of your most original pasta recipes from the book. Yeah, sure. I grew up eating homemade pasta, Matt. Homemade pasta is a stable dish in my mom's menu. We were making, she was making every time at home. I rarely remember we ate, we eat just packaged pasta in my childhood kitchen. my older sister and I were making homemade pasta weekly and then we dry them and then we keep them in the refrigerator we eat them like a through the weeks and I repeat the process every single time so like it is our favorite so it's just I love homemade pasta and if we are talking about the beautiful pasta if we're talking about the best favorite pasta it can be so easy it's some it can be so like a simple you can just use high quality olive oil topped with parmigiana cheese and a little like a fresh basil like not need to just add so many fancy things in your homemade pasta because it's it's so delicious by itself you know but my mom used to make kind of like a ground walnut pasta when I was a child.

20:44It was my, one of my favorite. She was, uh, after cook the pasta, she was tossed, she, she tossed the, um, homemade pasta with brown butter. And she was, uh, top of it, uh, the mixture of granulated sugar and, uh, ground walnuts. It was so good, Matt. Like you have to taste it. It is kind of like a buttery and a little nutty and a little sweet. It's so good. so delicious and it was one of my favorites when I was a child but right now I can make it so much because my husband not a super fan of like a sweet taste and a savory dishes so our go-to recipe in here I toast a homemade pasta with a roasted tomato sauce homemade pasta with a roasted tomato sauce and top with homemade burrata and drizzle some high-quality olive oil and some of like a fresh basil on the fresh herbs.

21:48And that's it. It's so good, so easy. It's so comfort for all of them, all of the pupils, you know. It's such a great reminder that when you make fresh pasta, you really don't need to mess it up with anything too complicated. I'm thinking about this ground walnut and brown butter and a little bit of sugar and a little bit of salt. I'm just like, this recipe, it feels like kind of perfect for a pasta that makes a statement that's a little different. And you're just pulverizing the walnuts in like a food processor and then - Yeah, yeah, generally. You can just process it in the food processor. You're gonna have just mostly a size of like a ground walnut.

22:36And then in a small bowl, you have to mix it with the granulated sugar and then top with homish bread pasta. It's so good. It sounds amazing. I'm making that one. And also, I love brown butter. So I can just, I can't stand with that. If I have a brown butter, I can just dip fresh bread with that. That's it. No need to add anything in this one. It is so good. I love brown butter. Betul, tell me a little bit about browning butter and really any advice that you can give our listeners about browning butter. I feel there's a little bit of technique there. Yeah, I generally make homemade butter. You know, I love make my own butter.

23:24So if I have a homemade butter, you know, just medium, high heat, I put that in a medium pan. and people never can't leave the butter when they are making brown butter because it's so important. It can burn so easily. So when it's come to like a little boil, like not the boil, like it's going to be like a kind of a fluffy. Bubbling a little bit. Yeah, bubbling. And there is going to be a foam on the top of the butter. And then immediately they have to remove from the stove. and then they can prepare a small, a little small size of like a cold water, or maybe they can just wet a kitchen towel. They can keep it next to the stove top.

24:13Then immediately I put that onto a wet kitchen towel because I wanted to make sure it's not getting so dark immediately. So then just if they're going to have the not knotted smell, they're gonna immediately remove from the stove top and they're gonna have delicious brown butter I think that's a great tip to just remove from the stove put it on a cold towel cool it down as quickly as possible use your senses if you're smelling it it's burning you're going too hard I want to talk about chocolate babka which was the star of one of your first breakout videos and and really what's the key to making a great babka at home yeah babka was one of my first viral video but I did I wasn't surprised because like it is the like I think it's the amazing combination of a buttery and fluffy flowy fluffy enriched dough with a delicious chocolate feeling it is so good it is so delicious no one can say no for a delicious vodka so if you are talking about the key i think the most important things for the enriched dough you have to make sure you need it well and also you rest it well so for this reason i generally use a comfort cold fermentation for all of my enriched doughs by the way we have a whole chapter for enriched dough i love to make enriched dough and um and also yeah general i prefer to make a cold fermentation from all of my enriched dough I keep in the refrigerator at least three hours or better they can keep it overnight because it's helped to develop an amazing flavor and also like the puffy pilavi texture and also plus it's helped to shape it more easily because it's the enriched Enriched dough is kind of like a little sticky and soft doughs.

26:21So, and also if they're using high quality, delicious chocolate with the right butter ratio, I think they're going to have the most delicious babka. Wonderful tip. And I agree, your enriched doughs chapter is a really detailed assessment of baking and cooking with these doughs that serve a purpose in the kitchen. And I love it. I want to ask you a little bit about your rise in social media. When you started the account, was it a hit right away? What's it like launching it? And then when you start growing your audience, I mean, that's an exciting time. I'm sure you had a lot of emotions. What was that like?

27:05Actually, I would say there were a few different chapters in my Instagram journey. when I started like my main growth started with my rails but when I started to share my recipes and my Instagram in 2017 I was sharing everything in Turkish and also like trying to just like a like focusing on developing my food photography and in a very short time I got positive responses from different huge food photography pages and food styling page and they were sharing some of my recipes and some of my photos as an example and also some of my recipes shared by some food magazines and my for this with this way my followers were growing slowly but it was surely Then in 2019 to 2020, my sweet boy, my little miracle, started to preschool.

28:15And then I started to English class. I started to take some English classes and decided to switch my page to English because I thought it would be nice to have more local audience from the U.S. And then at the same time, Instagram began to push more videos in their platform. And then I thought, yeah, I think this is the best time to change everything for my page. And I started to take more videos with my style. And one of my first door recipe went viral. And I think it was a moment that I said, yeah, I found my thing. and like because I was getting tons of amazing DMs and love the messages from all around the world it wasn't easy because it was I was so emotional and I was like a kind of like a shock like what are what what is going on because like some days like I grow 70 80k in a day you know just like it It was so huge.

29:22Like the response was so lovely. And I tried to enjoy all of the stuff. Like it was so lovely. I mean, when you start growing that quickly and you've got over 10 million followers on Instagram and that number is remarkable. I mean, it's truly one of the largest accounts on Instagram. And you should feel extremely proud of what you've grown and built. And with this audience, I mean, comes opportunity. but what's interesting is that you have remained really private you know you know you haven't been on television shows and you really haven't this is your first podcast interview and and it seems it seems I mean your English is incredible and I'm just stunned by the the the you just started learning a lesson five years ago and it's it's remarkable and I know for real I need to I need to say that because it's it's I don't take that for granted I mean it's it's so remarkable and So let me ask you like about the actual, the growth of it.

30:22You're given all these opportunities. What's it like to feel these business opportunities? How do you manage that all? And you have a young child as well. It's a lot going on in your world, Batul. Actually, it wasn't easy. It is not easy right now too. Because like I'm, and also I'm a perfectionist, Matt. Just I work so hard. I just, I spend hours to just improve all of my things, you know, my recipes, my photographs, my videos. And I feel like I have to try this trust and love, deserve this, all of the things that Instagram might just success give me. So, like, it is so lovely. the first year was a little more like a little harder than right now because like like i wasn't managed to look at this love you know just because like i can't explain it like because you are getting tons of emotional email email from the people they're asking like they're writing you as like their very personal memories with you.

31:38They are sharing all of the memories, lovely memories with you. They are sharing the tool. I made your recipes for my wedding anniversary. We did something like that. And it's like they're sharing lots of emotional moments with you. And I would say just it wasn't easy. It was just like so lovely to, of course, experience everything. But yeah, it wasn't easy. Exactly. Yeah. One of those opportunities that you took is really cool. You did a collection with anthropology. And I mean, I'm looking through the pieces and they're really, really special. And, you know, a lot of creators are offered opportunities.

32:17But to do a full anthro collection is neat. How did you come upon that opportunity? And like, I know you say you're a perfectionist, so you clearly had a lot to say when you're doing a whole collection. Yeah, it was so lovely collaboration. I enjoyed every step of this collaboration, Amit. You know, I use different antique tools and like different utensils in my recipes, in my videos. And people will ask me where they can find these items. And then they will just always ask me a bit too, where can we find them? like please tell us a brand or tell us a store and then it wasn't any like a specific brand any specific place that I can suggest them so I and also just I began to dream of having my product line with one of my favorite friends and then I went to my manager and then we reached out anthropology and then they were super happy super excited about the idea and we got started immediately and it was so lovely so what are some of the products that you're the line what are you selling and are people buying them i mean are people are people picking them up yeah oh my god it was best selling collection in anthropology they sold out so quick and then just like i was so proud like because um the team the uh the design team was so uh creative and so collaborative they come with the idea to use turkish uh inspired pattern in the collection it was so lovely idea because it was so unique and um people love the idea i think and uh like these days they They brought back some of the best-selling items.

34:10Again, they are still selling the collection. But yeah, it was so lovely. Exactly. It was the most beautiful experience in my career. What's your favorite item you're selling? Butter, butterkeeper. I would say definitely butterkeeper. I love all of them, to be honest. Of course, all of them are so beautiful. But I love making my own butter. So it was so special. I love the shape and it was so unique and the pattern is so good. I gifted it for all of my friends and everyone. I bet. I bet it's a beautiful gift. And I think it's really neat that you linked up with that brand. It's a cool brand. So Turk House Kitchen is out this fall and you probably have some plans.

34:58I'd love to hear what your future plans are with this book. And then, you know, down the road, Betul, you've got some plans. Actually, I don't know. This is so lovely question, but I don't know exactly. Because I was always so busy in this last two to three years. I was just, I was the only creator behind all of the things math. I was just, I was shooting and testing and writing and like making everything by myself. And also I was just, I keep trying to post in my social media account. So sometimes I was working 14 to 16 hours in a day. I was so busy. I always just look so like, it was, it was hard, but it was so lovely at the same time.

35:51So for these days, I think I'm going to try to enjoy and handle all of the things that this cookbook brings me and the success brings me. And also I postponed all of my other dreams and other ideas until now because I just focus on Turquoise Kitchen cookbook because it was one of my childhood dreams. I wanted to make it perfect. I have to feel like I did my cookbook. I wrote my cookbook and I have to feel proud. So right now, I think maybe just we can, of course, we are going to write another cookbook. I have a special idea and I'm so excited. I can't wait to share it with the people. And we are going to open my dream bakery.

36:40I hope so. Oh my goodness. That's, wait, that's amazing. I know you've teased this out, but your own bakery will be in Blacksburg? No, no. I think it's going to be a little bigger city. So maybe Washington, D.C. We're thinking. You're looking at Washington, D.C. All right. What is your dream bakery? Broadly, what are we talking about here? Yes, exactly. I have a dream of like a place that's cold to Kost Kitchen. It's like anybody, anyone when entered the place, they're gonna feel like oh okay we are in turkos kitchen home you know uh it must be just uh the style must be turkos kitchen style and we are gonna make delicious amazing pastries and then they're gonna people will gonna see all of the process the kitchen will be open and they're gonna smell this amazing uh like pastry smells and yeah it's just it sounds so lovely and so warm to me just let's see we are gonna wait and see what are some of the uh the items that you're gonna have on your menu what what do we want to what do we want to serve i have so just i think i i'm gonna have some of them i have some certain ideas uh of course we are gonna sell uh croissant and also betul's croissant but it is a little different than others and And actually, like, of course, I'm going to make lots of Turkish pastry, too.

38:14So I have a bunch of questions. So, Betul, are you going to be working the bakery? Are you going to be like, we walk in and see your face? Yeah, I think so. Just because I wanted to be there. Maybe I will not make everything. Just, you know, I will not make everything. But I'm going to be there time to times. And I wanted to just be there. And I'm going to host the people, talk with them, and just hug them. And, you know, it is one of my dreams. That's cool. And will you like move to D.C. for a little bit for that? Yeah, we have always a plan. But right now we just stick Blacksburg because we love Blacksburg.

38:50But sometimes I think we have to do that. Let's see. Have you been to a Virginia Tech football game? Are you a Hokie fan? Of course. Of course, we just often go to match and it is so lovely. It's just a so lovely feeling to be part of this beautiful family. It's just so lovely. I love it. I love to see you at a football game with the jersey on. That would be fun. It's great catching up with you, and I really look forward to visiting your bakery. It's going to be so cool. It would be so nice. On This Is Taste, we asked guests about their discerning tastes. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.

39:35Are you ready? Yep, sure. The best fruit? Pomegranate. I would say pomegranate because it reminds my childhood. The worst vegetable? I'm not a picky person, but I would say bristle sprouts. My assistant gets me love it so hard, but I'm still not there. She's trying. I love it. The best dessert. This is a tough one for you. Creme brulee. All the time, creme brulee, but with orange flavor. Creme brulee is a red flag for us, for my husband and for me. If we ate a bad creme brulee in any restaurant, it means just, no, we are not coming here one more time. I like that. That's a sign of a good restaurant is a good creme brulee.

40:25That's good. All right. Your favorite American fast food chain? I would say Rat Robin. I know it is not the kind of like very fast food style, but this is our option in here. What's your order at Red Robin? I love that place. Scorpion burger. It's so good. I love the sauce and love the fried jalapenos. Yeah, they have a really good burger menu. That's right. Your favorite cookbook of all time. I have a whole collection and I'm getting tons of cookbooks from my influencer friends. and I have lots of talented friends. I'm so lucky. And they all of my favorite one. But if I'm talking about my favorite one, I would say one of the Turkish cookbook, we call it Our Table.