486: New York’s Most Plugged-In Food Writer Isn’t a Food Writer with Rob Martinez

25:00Are we feeling the prices? Are these restaurants hurting? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're smiling. I mean, you're not smiling, but you're like dumb at like, geez. It's a bad time for mom and pop restaurants. I mean, that's part of the idea. It's part of what I do is preserving, in a sense, doing a snapshot of these restaurants because so many of them are unfortunately disappearing. I mean, like the cost of everything is so incredibly high for restaurants right now. Eggs, I hear a lot about. But I'm doing this show now, like this show on the side, this YouTube show, we have to make a meal for like less than a certain amount of money.

25:37Oh, cool. And I keep going to these restaurants that I used to go to back in the day for like a cheap fix or whatever. And everything is just crazy. It's, I mean, and I don't blame the restaurants, but like it's really hard for consumers right now to eat out, which makes it harder for restaurants to have to charge more. It's kind of a perfect storm. I don't think you could talk to any restaurant owner who'd be like, I'm thriving. 2024 is the best year ever. It's just, it's down across the board. Yeah. And like, we've got a lot of like external forces with, you know, just inflation in general, not just food costs, but all costs.

26:08And of course, we're really feeling it financially. And many folks are questioning if it's worth going out and eating at a restaurant. you know and that just that question of like should I cook at home or should I dine out is affecting these restaurants so much oh yeah yeah I feel bad for a lot of like the local standbys in my neighborhood who now you know you want to get a plate of like peramil and rice and beans it used to be something that you could count on for like 10 bucks or less and now it's like 15 bucks like yeah that's rough yeah yeah it's something that we're keeping our eye on on the show and I hope you know I hope there's a change in trajectory when it comes to this this movement I don't see it us getting out of it.

26:50I don't know what people are going to do. Let's talk about the Frito Misto at Pecheria Galena in Torino. And I love seeing you take your aesthetic and your inquisitive nature and your general American East Coast vibe. You take it to Italy and I feel like it's a real unlock for you. It puts you in a fully new kind of rob. It's like you on the road. And I love the Torino videos. Tell me what you learned about Torino? Well, Torino is a great city. It's, um, it's like the fourth largest city in Italy, I believe. And it feels very underrated. Like if you say I'm going to Turin, people are like, why not?

27:27Like they've almost never heard of it. Um, I started going to Turin because I did a show in Italy, um, with a sommelier named Jeff Porter, great dude. And, um, we shot all around Italy. We shot in like half of the States of Italy, 60 days. And my crew was based in Turin. So So whenever we had a break, I'd like to go hang out in turn with my guys who I still love. And whenever I'm around there, I feel like the need to return and see my friends that, you know, they have kids and stuff like that. So for this series of videos, I linked up with my friend's ex-girlfriend, Valentina, and had her be my fixer.

28:01And she just knows everybody in turn. And, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about what makes a good video for me. Like, how do we kind of cover the things that are typical, maybe a bit universal, but also really specific to Turin, things like Agnoloti del Plin, which is more, I guess, specific to Piedmont. And, yeah, I think I'm really proud of the videos we came out with. They didn't perform like gangbusters. Interesting. Interesting. Surprising. Eh. If you really think about, well, I've spent a lot of time thinking about the algorithm, maybe too much time. and once I reflect on it, I understand why they didn't perform very well.

28:38But yeah, Turin as a city, I think one of the things that people can, you know, one thing that people can take away about it is that it doesn't have a lot of tourists. So, you know, people complain a lot about Rome being like overrun. Turin, it's students, locals, and frankly immigrants. And that makes it kind of more charming. You know, you feel like you can live like a local there. The food is world-class. It's near Piedmont, which is a world-class wine region, And also just one of the most beautiful places in the world, especially around now, like October, truffle season. It's like unreal. I love it.

29:10It's very charming. Tell me about the Frito Misto, because I felt like that was something that it felt like you were we were experiencing your absolute delight and kind of just surprised about how the quality of it in that video. I love that that moment there. Turin has the oldest or the largest outdoor market in Europe. It's called Porta Palazzo. and basically this guy Beppe, who's a maniac, which you can see in the video, he's insane. Great dude. His family has been in that market for over a century and he started to see kind of the market forces at work and thinking, okay, there are these chains coming and maybe I should protect my family and maybe I should open up a restaurant outside of Puerto Palazzo.

29:55And that's the place that I went. So he has all of this insane knowledge of fish from his grandma, from his mother. And then he combined that with just making an absolutely incredible fish restaurant. It just gives you piles of fried, delicious, a lot of it local from Liguria. Yeah. Fish, yeah. And made the butchering shots too, the cross sections, the deheading. Yeah, and those guys who do all the butchery have been there for like 40 years with him. Those guys are fast. Yeah. Knives. I love that scene. I could talk to you all day about these videos. And again, like check out all the accounts and I'm going to link to some episodes in the show notes.

30:34Rob, let's talk about production a little bit. I want to get a sense of your tech setup. Like when you're walking into these spaces, is it just you? Do you have a producer with you or a shooter? What's it like shooting these videos? Yeah, I'm doing everything alone. Like I said, when I went to Italy, it was helpful to have a translator and a fixer. But for the most part, I'm walking into every place, just me. I shoot on an iPhone 13 Pro, specifically that one. Even when I upgrade, I'll keep the 13 Pro and keep shooting on it. I shoot with DJI Mic 2 is what it's called. I find it to be a little bit more idiot-proof than the Rodes.

31:11Yeah. I mean— These are shotguns or lovs? What are these? These are lovs. You can see them in the video. Yeah, those are lovs you clip on, yeah. Yeah, if you talk to any old-school sound person— like my guy in Italy, he hates seeing microphones, and I'm just like, dude, people know it's a video. It's over. Like we're not trying to hide the microphones anymore. Like people know they're watching a video. I mean there's something charming in the fact that you're using these clip-on labs and you're not like trying to be too Hollywood with it. It feels like this is the way you shoot in situ. Yeah. Yeah.

31:39I mean I'm standing like probably closer to them than I am to you and just chatting. You know, and the camera kind of melts away because it's just this tiny little iPhone. And then I think there's also this quality of like people experience their lives on their phone. They use their camera and it has their memories and stuff like that. And so I kind of want that quality. Like I want when people watch my videos, they can almost see through their phone, right? Yeah. And see what's on the other side. Sometimes I relate it to like a first-person video game, like Bioshock or something like that. It's just a disembodied voice kind of like walking through the fish market of Turin.

32:16And you can just kind of experience that. And hopefully I ask some good questions. I mean, you really do. You produce these segments and these episodes really well, and we've talked about the humanity. But on the tech side, having those small iPhones gets you in tight, and obviously no one knows you're shooting something that's going to be seen by 7 million people. Yeah. It's cool. No, this is a massive compliment because it does not read like an old tech iPhone because it feels like you clearly hit this 13. It seems to be the right tech for you. Well, the 13, it focuses closer than the other phones.

32:48so like you can get closer to food with a 14 on it snaps into macro mode it looks bad so dude that's when the phone got bad or the camera got bad yeah yeah i mean everyone was like man the camera sucks now yeah yeah so i stick with the iphone 13 and i mean also it's just so flexible i mean like i said i come from a somewhat traditional video background like i can operate i can operate these cameras clayton we're filming we're filming here guys to be on the internet at some point our videos but the iphone is just so flexible i never have to think about my white balance my ISO my shutter speed I can just walk in and it can adapt to so many situations and all I'm thinking about is I'm looking around the space and going cool where's the light what lights do I need to turn off if I need to turn anything off which is something I've had to do like I'll ask a restaurant to turn off every light in there yeah if I want to get my shots you know no definitely now I want to segue and talk a little about monetization and and really I'm going to link to your patreon in the show notes and support Rob that way there's other ways too we'll get into the t-shirts which are super cool but i saw you posted on a candid instagram story you know about the challenges creators face and and really you know the way that maybe we aren't supporting um our creators that we're like definitely loving and thumbing through every single day and i feel like how do you how do you actually make a living with this stuff yeah i mean there's a lot of ways to make a living as a creator something i don't do which i've mentioned that a lot of creators do is I don't accept any money from restaurants.

34:13But, you know, some of these creators get like$1 ,000 per post or$750 per post. And a lot of them also segue that into being like a social media manager. So, like, they'll manage a restaurant's social media page and do all the photography and stuff like that. But then also the restaurant gets like three videos on that channel that are not disclosed that they're actually an ad. That's very popular. Anyway, I don't do any of that. Basically, I just use YouTube AdSense, TikTok AdSense. It pays maybe – I'm not supposed to say my CPM. Whatever, man. I'm not looking for tea. I mean, you're pretty candid about economics on your post.

34:50Yeah, yeah. But, you know, whatever. It's like – I think it's like 11 cents per thousand or something like that. Not very much. Basically, it's like a million views on YouTube gets me like 1 ,100 bucks. Yeah. Is that the math? And then on – no, 110 bucks. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. A million views gets me about 110 bucks. And then on TikTok, a million views gets you about 400 bucks. And if you do long form and you're eight minutes plus, then you can actually make some money. So like, you know, me and another creator are developing a YouTube show. And, you know, we're not thinking about it as like a cash cow, but we're like, hey, that could be a good way.

35:22If we can make something popular, like that can make you actually some decent money because it's more like$10 per thousand. And then you're making like 100K per million, 10K per million. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesus. No, bro, I'm with you on the tens. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I mean, it's clear that it's less than many would think, particularly given how much work you put into it with the travel and all that. And also just in general, you've got millions of people watching your videos. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like it's a crazy amount of views for a little amount of money. So, like, I think on YouTube I'm averaging like 15 million views a month.

35:59Like some, some months go by and I'm getting a million views a day on YouTube, but the takeaway is like 36 grand a year or something like that. Yeah. But honestly, I mean, you work in the food media, I've become pretty comfortable living lean. Yeah. You know, like I took a big pay cut to work at Righteous Eats and, um, even now I don't think, I think maybe I'm making as much money as I made there just on like AdSense and stuff. But yeah, I've become very comfortable living lean. some other ways that I try to make some money is uh patreon um I sold some merch though that's probably going to be costing me more money than anything because you have to drive all this demand and it's a whole thing I didn't yeah didn't learn uh until I actually did it and then you know brand deals can pay you a ton of money so like Colgate is like hey why don't you make a video and brush your teeth after this is like the bad version but you know they're gonna pay me like a big bag like yeah yeah you know but I'm not really like big game hunting I don't have time I don't have time to email Colgate.

36:55Yeah. Colgate, reach out. Or anybody reach out to Rob, you're going to listen to the show and I think your work speaks for itself and clearly you have an audience so there's going to be, there's like an A plus B there. Yeah. I mean, also, on the other hand though, like I won't accept some like shit brand deal. Like, Yeah. Again, I'm cool living lean. Like for me to make 40K a year from like YouTube and TikTok adsense, I'm like, I'm crushing it, yo. To make 40K a year just making food videos, that's like the greatest, like that's awesome. not enough to live on in New York City not even close but you know I'm not going to bend over backwards to do like some bullshit that like killed the loyalty of my audience I respect that take it's not even a take I respect that ethic that you have and really support Rob and what he's doing when I asked you about these t-shirts it's cool you split the profits with the restaurant the designs are great do you design them yourself?

37:46no Matty Fisher great illustrator I this is a weird little bio thing but like I got one poem published in my life and in this book of poems it was illustrated by Maddie Fisher this is like years ago so I always just had her in my head and then when I had merch I reached out like hey you probably don't know who I am but I'm like one poem in this big book of poems that you drew oh cool and so we reconnected and she lives in Ridgewood and um yeah it's one t-shirt uh for the first like five weeks of content that I made so there's one in San Francisco one for the Bronx, one for Brooklyn, one for Philly, and one for North Jersey.

38:22And yeah, they're good. They're quality. They're printed in Bushwick by my friend Brendan at Beezer Printing, which I also did a mini documentary about. Yeah, they're good shirts. That's great. I'm going to link to the show. They look really cool and they support local restaurants, which I love to see what you're doing. I mean, that's rad. More people should buy these. Yeah, of course. I mean, it doesn't make any sense for me to like, I'm not going to put somebody else's business on a t-shirt and take all the money. Well, I like that you give, you know, obviously you give them shirts and they're the models.

38:51Yeah, yeah. I like that a lot. I went and shot those myself. Well, in San Francisco, I had a guy named Alan shoot. And then in Philly, I had another guy shoot named PJ. And then in Jersey, Brooklyn and the Bronx, I shot those myself. That's real cool. Where do you want to go city-wise, country-wise? What's on your list of destinations that you'd like to give these deep dives into? I want to go deeper into America. so you know all the other countries are really glossy and nice and you know there's like a pleasure-seeking part of my brain that would like to go there but i am american and i feel some sense of duty to to cover america especially like i said now we're in so many kind of like small mom and pop businesses are disappearing um so that's really kind of my focus going into 2025 is America America is there a region you haven't visited like of the country there's so much I'm way less well traveled than people might think I haven't been to many states I've never been to like New Mexico or the southwest I would love to go Albuquerque or something like that that'd be great I'd love to see that let's make that happen let's figure it out let's do it I'm sending emails out sending emails out hit up Rob is there a New York City restaurant Grail that is on the list to shoot at I think Junior's Cheesecake is a place that I will film at.

40:12And I would love to get that story because it is a great story. It's also really good cheesecake. Yeah. So good. I think it's underrated. I think people are like, oh, it's like a brand. Better than any cheesecake in LA. LOL. Shot taken. I'm just kidding. No, no, we're kidding here. But it's good. It's really good there. Yeah, it's fantastic. And then Roland Roaster. But I don't think I can. And I've actually spoken with Roll and Roaster, and I don't think that will ever happen. Why? They're very protective over what they do, but I just love it. I love the aesthetic. I love everything about it.

40:46I've been to the one out in Brooklyn once, but do you remember when they had that spot in the East Village? No. They had a Roll and Roaster in the East Village. What? For real, like maybe 2007, 2008. Oh, shit. They had a Roll and Roaster on like— It's a dream. It was right by Webster Hall. I remember going to shows at Webster Hall and hitting Roll and Roaster afterwards. Every restaurateur in New York would kill to have the clout of Rollin' Roaster. We have Rollin' Roaster fan base here. Describe what it is. Rollin' Roaster is a restaurant that's in Sheepshead, right? Yeah. And they specialize in roast beef.

41:19And they have a big wheel that you spend on your birthday and you can get free stuff. And they also give you a pizza if you spend over like$35 or something like that. Fun fact, they serve pizza? Yeah, they give you a free pizza if you spend over a certain amount. But yeah, I'm a fiend for hot roast beef sandwiches, so naturally. Oh, and also the last grail, I'd like to get an interview in with Keith McNally. I don't know where he's at with doing interviews, but. Yeah, so what are you going to ask Keith? I think you're on the list of like maybe 100 journalists for that one, but I think you got a shot, man.

41:49Yeah, I don't know what I'd ask Keith, but I would just let him rock. He's a maniac. He is on a tear. Yeah, yeah. He is on a tear for real. Come on the show, Keith. Come on, Keith. Come on, you got two spots. I did it. Yeah, we have two spots for you. You can come on any time. Robin, this is Taste. We asked guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit. Well, I think you got to think about fruits in terms of floors and ceilings. So, you know, a pear is a miserable low floor, but a really great pear is an incredible high ceiling.

42:27You know, an apple doesn't really have a very low floor, doesn't really have a very high ceiling. So if you're looking at a fruit on its best day, I think you got to go peach. For sure. It's the ceiling goes to the moon. It's unreal. A great peach, but there's definitely a low floor there. The mealiness of those, but great call. The worst vegetable. I'm going to go with zucchini or courgette. It kind of sucks. Yeah, it comes up a lot here. Agree. It's just so prevalent in the summer, but man. Watery. Watery. It's not easy to cook with. The best dessert. The raspberry cream pie at Briar Muir Farms on the North Fork of Long Island.

43:00I love the idea of raspberries and cream. It's like such a, I grew up with that. I love that. It's an unbelievable pie. Tell me what's the crust. It's just a traditional pie crust, but it's just a thick layer of like a mix of cream cheese and also whipped cream. And then they have just this homemade thick layer of raspberry jam. It's outrageous. Rob, the New York City restaurant you visit the most. Recently for a story, the Arepa Lady. I went there a lot. but often you can probably find me at Sobre Masa in Bushwick. Okay. The number one slice in New York City. Nana's in Great Kills, Staten Island, the upside down slice.

43:40Upside down. What is that? Tell me. Sauce on top, cheese on the bottom. It's an incredible slice. It's outrageous. It's better than any of the new slices. Favorite spot for tacos. Ooh, I'm going to give the nod. I'm going to do two. First of all, very underrated spot, the Carnitas taco at Tortas Neza in Corona. And then for tacos guisados, which are flour tortillas filled with stews, you got to go to Bordertown. Unbelievable. Yeah, Bordertown is a great call there. Good one. Favorite pasta in New York City? People know that I always love Larina in Fort Greene. The smoked spaghetti is unbelievable there, but also the lasagna is out of this world.

44:16Lasagna, hard in a restaurant sometimes, hard hang. A few of the creators you actually follow. Sure. So I got to show love to at Moober Eats, Julian Mu. He's one of the few creators who creates food content. And I look at what he does and I think, I wish I did that. He's smart. He makes great series. He finds amazing places, Julian Mu. I'll also say Nicholas Nuvon, who's maybe a little bit larger of a creator. But he is really focused right now on the West Indian culture in New York. And I think his style, his curiosity is so genuine. I think everything him and his team are doing are knocking out of the park.

44:53And then a smaller up-and-coming creator, I'd suggest, is Pete Candia, who's actually a food writer for the New Jersey Digest. He is like a New Jersey food freak. And he makes cooking videos that are getting better and better every time he makes them. He's a young guy. Pete Candia. Great. I like your interest in North Jersey. That's rad. Yeah. Yeah, you've been putting on some miles there. I love North Jersey. Yeah, it's a good spot. A cuisine you would like to learn more about? kind of like generally West African food. I think every time I have it, I think this is unbelievable. So when I cover Harlem, eventually there's a great restaurant there called Pekin that does Senegalese food.

45:32And I'd love to dive in. Your favorite cookbook of all time. I give two again, I would say the art of simple cooking by Alice Waters and also the art of fermentation by Sandor Katz. Man. I love that Sandor Katz book. Oh, that that's a crazy book. It's like a textbook. Yeah. It's a textbook. It looks like some narrative in there. He's been on the show. It's a good, good old episode. I'll link to it. Excellent. Yeah. A favorite city outside America to visit for food. I give it to Mexico City. I think people already know that, but Mexico City is a panoply of delights. Just an incredible place. Last one, your favorite sandwich.

46:07Ah, favorite sandwich is always going to be a hot roast beef sandwich with gravy and mozzarella. I used to get it from La Coma Deli in Ronconcoma, but nowadays I like to get it at Babylon Village Meat Market. Oh, man. So what makes it good? I mean, Babylon Village Meat Market is a high, high-quality place. They really take butchery seriously. Their roast beef is phenomenal. Their gravy is phenomenal. Phenomenal family. Yeah. I mean, what's better than a roast beef sandwich dipped in gravy? Definitely. I had it at the beach. Oh, yo, that's a good beach sandwich. It'll hold up a little bit. It's a controversial beach sandwich.

46:37You got to eat it in the first hour. You got to eat it in the first hour. I don't care if sand gets in it. I'm dunking at the beach. Rob Martinez, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you very much for having me.

46:56Hey, what's up, Eliza? How are you? I'm doing well. I'm caffeinating, so you know it's going to be a good B segment. I'm doing a little breakfast tea. I don't typically do it, but I was feeling a little horsey this morning. Well, here we are. It's great. What's your first of three things that you're interested in, excited about, loving, etc., etc.? You know the drill. My first thing is that I got to go to Kellogg's Diner. I haven't talked about this, right? Absolutely not. And please tell me. I've read so much great press. I've read some OK press, too. So please tell me everything about it. I really liked getting to go.

47:29I feel like all New Yorkers, especially ones who commute or spend time in Williamsburg, have a lot of feelings about Kellogg's Diner. It's been on that corner for over 100 years, and it was really sad when they closed. So I think off the bat, I'm just really excited to have Kellogg's back open and a late night dining destination in New York. When I went, they have still not been 24-7, but I know that they have plans this fall to go full 24-7, which I'm very excited about. And I think my favorite part of the meal was the dessert, perhaps. Unsurprisingly, they have this really great pastry case that's glowing temptingly on the counter that's stocked with all kinds of things that Amanda Perdomo is doing.

48:07And I think easily the best thing I had, sweet or savory, was the passion fruit tajin ice box pie that they're doing there. I want to know, the menu is not diner or diner. And it used to be a little bit more of that pancake egg style of diner. But there's a brand new chef there, correct? Yeah, it's more of like a Tex-Mex sort of diner. We got flat nachos, they call them, as opposed to the layered nachos, which were good. But honestly, I think I could have used a little bit more topping to chip ratio on the nachos. We got some great fried chicken. But I do think the dessert is really the standout.

48:44And I'm really excited for when they go full 24-7. I think I might have to plan a late night out around there just so I can go get this icebox pie at like 3 or 4 a.m. Well, that's great. I think a 24-hour spot in New York is hard to find these days. It's so hard to run. Like I would be very – I think when they go full 24-7, I would love to have them on the show and just talk about the logistics of when are you doing prep? When are you getting deliveries? How are you paying for stuff for full 24-7? I think I was with some restaurant friends when I was there and everyone was very hung up on the logistics part of that.

49:15Yeah, figuring out how to do 24. I mean, good luck to them. Yeah, we're all rooting for them. Yeah. What's your first thing? Well, I'm going to also speak about a relatively new New York City restaurant. I got to go to Lola's last night, which has gotten a lot of interesting press. Two stars in New York Times from Melissa Clark. It was her first review as the temporary critic. But all reviews aside, I feel like I am experiencing one of my favorite new restaurants in New York. It was terrific. Wow. Okay. I've been really wanting to go, so I'm happy to hear it. Was there a standout thing that you ate?

49:51Many things. And a little background, Suzanne Cupps is the chef. And Suzanne hopefully will be on the show at some point. You know, a veteran of New York City restaurants for years. She grew up in South Carolina and has a Filipino background as well. So I think the blending of the South and the Philippines is her bio, but it's not necessarily the remit for the restaurant. And I think Melissa Clark taps into this idea that it's like a very comfortable, very approachable dinner party slash hangout at a house kind of meal in the middle of Manhattan. I think Melissa nailed it with that observation.

50:24I love the space. It's in Nomad on 20th Street and 5th. And, you know, it's a really open space. They've got poured concrete floors. It feels a little like auto boy a little bit, which is cool. I always like that aesthetic in New York. It's not as common. But really, let's talk about food here because to me, she is doing what she knows, which is Gramercy Tavern, which she's alum of and really using the green market as her playground. And she's doing it so well. I think the highlight for me, and I don't think this is going to be on that long. So sorry if you're going to miss out on it. But it's these BLT toasts with bacon jam, really thick cut tomatoes.

51:02FYI, tomatoes are still in season right now in New York. It's like we're recording this on October 20th. So that's pretty crazy. It's also like 78 degrees out right now. So. And like 22 days of no rain, which is, it's just an interesting fall. Kind of like the vibe personally. I like that this weather. It's fake fall, which is why I like it. But back to the toasts, bacon jam, thick cut tomatoes, kimchi and dillaioli. I love it. She kind of puts it in four bites for the table. She really knows ratio. felt like when I left the meal, I had about 10 courses between four people and I felt extremely good.

51:37It wasn't too much. It wasn't too little. Um, but I like, I like the way Suzanne thinks about New York city dining and like our global interests as diners. And I just loved her popcorn chicken, um, which is, you know, marinated in buttermilk and soy sauce. I believe I'll talk to her a little bit more about that when we have her on the show, but the fermented hot honey, terrific little dipping sauce. And probably the highlight, you know, is a salad with buttermilk ranch, which, you know, lots of greens, you know, you've got some watermelon radish and some really nice, very velvety greens, but she puts pretzels in it, which is cool.

52:14I've never really experienced that. Have you? No, I mean, maybe on a road trip in a moment of genius, I put pretzels into a salad to go yeah certainly not in a restaurant are they just straight up pretzels are they being crushed at all they're like okay good question good follow-up good journalism there i like that questions people need to know question people need to know i i i they're homemade obviously and they're little bits and they're not like the rolled gold style that's what i was picturing yeah i didn't sell it right they're like little like crispy sourdough pretzels i believe so they're not like too salty but it's just a nice inclusion when you're thinking about adding a crunchy bread element two salads which you should um i loved it it was terrific well i'll have to go i've been wanting to check it out and your endorsement makes me even more excited yeah definitely check it out they're six months in um quite busy um please go it's a terrific restaurant what's your next thing my next thing is a canned wine oh i love it i know i feel like there's been a lot of good developments in the ready to drink space and i think this one is really cool they're called Famidu Vien.

53:21And they're a collab between Zevro Vien, which is a really big natural wine importer here in New York and across the country, and also a New Yorker named Paloma Bray. And they are working with lots of cool winemakers. I first connected with them actually because of a cake zine event that we were doing last month. And I had grand ambitions of keeping some of the wine to drink for myself, but it went incredibly fast. And then I had to just seek it out elsewhere at one of my local wine shops in Brooklyn. I think my favorite wine that I had is this kind of light chilled red that they're doing that is a Grenache blend with three different varietals.

53:54And I'm just really excited to see more like cool wine that's being made with people that aren't feeling fussy. I think for a long time, people looked down on canned wine as like it couldn't be good because it's in a can. So to see really cool winemakers like Chateau de Beru, like working in that space, I'm a fan. I love that you're bringing up canned wine. I think it's a great format for wine, especially if you're not a big drinker in your household and you want to buy the full bottle. It's great to have a couple of cans around, which we do in our household. There's some cool NA canned wines happening, too.

54:24I know Leitz is doing one, which is my favorite NA wine out of Germany. And they have a can. It's definitely a white. I'm not quite sure. But I think we should do a story on it, I think, down the road. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot of other developments happening in that space. So it would be cool to take more of a look at it. What's your next thing? My next thing is a package, a media package that came out a couple days ago from Eater LA. And I love it. It tackles how influencers are affecting the LA dining scene and really their unique place in LA. And props to the team there, Matt Kang and his team there.

55:02I think it's a terrific package. It packages four stories, and I'm going to link to it in the show notes. I want to focus on a specific story written by Kathy Chaplin, who is a longtime food writer and blogger. And what she has done is really given a deep and detailed history of the original Los Angeles food bloggers going back nearly 20 years, but mostly in that 15 to 10 year window. These are folks like Zach Brooks, Bill Esparza and Sharon Yang of Weezer Monkey. There's a lot of food GPS is in there as well. And I think if you were in L.A. and you were you lived there. So maybe you have some insight.

55:41I'd love to hear your take, Eliza. You know, back, I would say, 15 years ago, food media in L.A. was starting to change and it was moving from L.A. Times and Jonathan Gold to like these really, you know, ambitious food blogs. New York, of course, was doing that as well. But I think New York had much more established food media, many magazines. And I just love this history that Kathy paints. And one thing that's interesting in the piece is that, you know, we talk about on the show a lot how we are thinking like TikTok and these restaurant reviewers using social platforms are maybe disrupting blogs and disrupting traditional food media.

56:22and what's interesting is that during this period print magazine was thinking about blogs displacing them and like you think about i think we've been very open how we enjoy and we are we promote you know tiktok accounts they're not all for us but like the movement is is interesting so like she like thinks about the psychology like what was jonathan gold thinking when these all these blogs were uh were kind of taking his you know stealing the mic from him a little bit. And I think the conclusion is that, you know, Jonathan Gold eventually, when he was leader at the LA Times, they would hire some of the blogs, the bloggers to create content for the LA Times.

57:02And she details that. It's a great piece. And I think it's a great document of history of food media in Southern California. Yeah, I really like looking back at the shifts of different eras of media, because obviously, we're another shift right now. This reminds me, I was reading Emily Sundberg's newsletter, Feed Me This Morning, and she has a blurb at the bottom about a Wall Street Journal story that just came out that says that there are 27 million paid content creators in the U.S. And 44 percent of them say that social media is their full-time job, which is 7 percent of the American workforce, if all of these numbers are correct, which I think clearly is an indicator that we're at another big shift that's happening.

57:39So I like this idea of going back and seeing what can we learn from this previous shift that was happening in the media space. Yeah, I'm going to check out that. I saw that in Emily's email this morning. It was terrific. And I like what Matt's done with this piece and the team at Eater LA. I think there's one, like a diary of a TikTok account and what she has eaten over the course of a week. And it's like, wow, they're putting in the work. I mean, I know it's like, obviously glamorous to be invited to go to junkets and travel the world for free. But like, what we I recognize the work that many of these TikTokers, I recognize this work that TikTokers put in their craft and to like discount it and be like a crabby old guy and say like, man, I don't want to I don't like these guys is is super, super false and not my my instinct.

58:23So bravo to you guys, Eater LA. I'll link to the show notes. What's your last thing, Liza? So I went to this new restaurant called Bridges recently. Have you been there before? Heard all about it. It's definitely a very exclusive restaurant. I've heard. Yeah, it's definitely a very exclusive restaurant. It's Very beautiful. The chef is Sam Lawrence, who cooked at Estella for a long time as the CDC. And I think that there's a lot of Estella's influence on the menu. And I went there and had like a very sceny and beautiful meal. And I think the highlights for me were these two tarts. There was a Comte tart with beautiful chanterelle mushrooms and a chocolate tart for dessert.

59:00But I left like really thinking about like what who is this restaurant for and like where are restaurants opening in New York and what does that say about dining? And what I think is interesting about Bridges is that they opened like very much in the heart of historic Chinatown here in Manhattan in the longtime home of Hopxing, which was a restaurant that closed during the pandemic. The space was left vacant for years. When they did begin to open, there was a lot of controversy with the longtime business owners in Chinatown about whether or not Bridges would be able to receive a liquor license.

59:28Like there was this effort to kind of try to keep them out of the historic heart of Chinatown because they are not a Chinese restaurant. They're not owned or operated by Chinese people. And I think when I went there, I found myself thinking about it a lot because they're like literally the only business on the block that doesn't have a sign in Chinese characters, only in English. And when you go and eat at this restaurant, it's really beautiful. It's a hard table to get. And it's certainly not a cheap meal either. And it kind of left an interesting taste in my mouth where I had this good meal there.

59:56But I just don't think I would go back to eat because obviously, like, you can open a restaurant anywhere you want in New York. And this restaurant was empty. And I think like it does serve the community to have things that are open. But I think at the same time, it maybe is like it's not really serving the neighborhood of Chinatown and certainly where it is like in historic Chatham Square. It's not even on like what we would what some people would say is Dime Square or other parts of lower Manhattan. It really is like next to where the original Nam Wah is and like all of these other things. It's a really great point and a topic to consider.

1:00:29I think we dine today not just by what is on the plate. Like that is not what dining is. It's about context. It's about the neighborhoods. It's about the way neighborhoods are integrated into menus. I think what's interesting and maybe a bit of why you have mixed feelings perhaps about this restaurant is that it's called Bridges and, you know, the Two Bridges neighborhood is, you know, where it's located, which is a traditionally Chinese neighborhood into the lorry side. And, you know, using the branding of this neighborhood and you're in your kind of like hotspot restaurant amongst traditional community, the traditional community is, yeah, it's gentrification, you know, full rip here.

1:01:09And I think mixed feelings, I recognize it and I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of change happening in Chinatown. And we certainly see a younger generation of Asian American restaurant owners and store owners like Golden Diner or Beverly's that are opening and they are like, you know, changing up the history of the neighborhood a little bit, but they're still serving the community and they still have access points. And I think especially just the heart of Chinatown where this restaurant is, it really is like even the Chase Bing nearby has Chinese characters on it, which I don't know.

1:01:43That's probably a separate conversation about how like international corporations are masquerading as being a part of a community. But I just found myself thinking about it a lot as we see a lot of new restaurants opening in New York this fall. And I guess I'm curious for listeners if people have eaten there, if people have thoughts about it, just kind of talking about like what does it mean when restaurants open in different places? It's great. And I think it's a great example of why long-form restaurant criticism is so powerful. And Ryan Sutton brought that up in his episode. I'm hoping this restaurant gets reviewed by The Times, by like, you know, The New Yorker.

1:02:20And I think in great criticism, these topics will be covered and negotiated. So we'll see if there's consensus around your feelings here. Yeah. And I'm not trying to like pick on bridges because certainly there are lots of other restaurants that have opened in like gentrifying neighborhoods across New York, across the country, across the world. I just think this is a recent example. And I do think like the very specific block that it's on would feel different even than something five blocks away. No, you're saying this straightforward and I appreciate it. I have a separate question about the neighborhood.

1:02:53What's your take on time again? because time again I went during fashion week and I was with a friend I don't live in the city anymore I'm just outside so I'm not like hanging out late night too much but um they like stopped serving alcohol randomly because of some permitting shit I know vampire weekend just did a pop-up show there it's called like time time square now with a singular because dimes and and is now uncool and time again is now cool I'm being funny here Eliza what is your take of time again well Well, it's interesting because I think there's been efforts to curtail the crowd of people that go to Time Again.

1:03:29It was very popular over the summer because it spilled out into the street that's next to – is it Columbus Park down there? It's Columbus Park. So there is a one-way street and it's on the corner. So people were just kind of standing in the street and it had this kind of block party vibe, which I think is nice. I think it's cool that you can just walk up to a bar and see your friends there and you can go in and get a drink or you can just kind of stand and loiter and go along your way. I certainly have spent time at time again. But recently I was walking by and I saw that there was kind of, I don't know if it was caution tape or scaffolding or something, but it seemed that they were trying to like fence that in.

1:04:05So I think that like certainly as GQ and other places have been writing about this bar and Vampire Weekend has done pop-up shows there, like maybe they're trying to curtail it a little bit. But I think it's funny also because you see this trend in the Lower East Side around there specifically of people sitting on like the little plastic stools that are very common in Southeast Asia. And the other place that does it is, you know, a couple blocks up that way. But it's Măm, which is a Vietnamese restaurant. So it's very much in the character of that restaurant to be doing that there. And they just opened this cool wine bar called Lai Rai next door.

1:04:36But time again, you know, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the tradition of people sitting on these stools. It's just like a easy way for people to, you know, sit and be outside there. So that's just kind of a side commentary that I think is interesting to be seeing, like increasingly people sitting on these little stools on the sidewalks here in Manhattan. Yeah, I think like for me, when I was, you know, hanging out there for a drink, I kind of enjoyed the way that they're using New York creatively. And, you know, in that they're in that gray area permitting. and I think having a place where people can gather affordably if it's like having a drink and being outside, smoking cigs, doing all that.

1:05:17And I think that that's really great to bring energy downtown. It reminds me of the East Village 25 years ago, which I think that spirit had been lost until the pandemic when Dime Square became a thing and Lower Manhattan really saw a boom in people hanging out outside and gathering. And I just, I like it. It seems like it's creative and I'm all for it, though. The Vampire Weekend show seemed like it was just a bunch of fashion editors who are invited to sit in the front row and take Instagram photos of each other. Yeah. I mean, maybe I'm just better excited to get to go to the show. Yeah, yeah, right.

1:05:53Me too. I'm totally bitter. By the way, I'm totally bitter that I didn't get invited. That's my read. Yeah. I think it's always funny when it becomes like a cliche to go somewhere. And I've been at parties or screenings or whatever recently where many different people have separately said, oh, let's go to time again after this. So I think it's always kind of funny when it gets to that level. But I do like the spirit of it being easy to just roll up somewhere and see people that you know and be able to socialize without having to pay a cover at the door and go in somewhere. Exactly. Yeah. I think we're aligned there.

1:06:22I like that. Do you have another thing to share? We got off tangent. We did. But, you know, if you're with us now and I think no, no, we have unlimited time here. It is free to post a podcast. I wonder if there's like a 14 hour podcast. There's got to be something like that. Well, I listened to a 14 hour white noise on Spotify. So it's just a version of that. Ooh, let's, let's, let's maybe pivot to white noise. My last one is a restaurant. Um, I was just in Southern California and I got to spend some time, um, in Alhambra and I got to go to Yang's kitchen. Have you heard of Yang's? I've been dying to go to Yang's kitchen.

1:06:54I'm excited to share my first take and I hope to go back. I know we're planning, um, a trip this December, Clayton, Eliza, and I to Southern California to do some episodes and stay tuned for those. I love Yang's. I heard about it from a couple of food writer friends. I went there with Jason Stewart from Halongan and food writing, and he was a big fan. So I had a wonderful brunch. They call it brunch and dinner. That's how the menu is broken up, but it's more like lunch all day, cafe, breakfast, lunch. And then they stop at around three and then start at five. So I only had the midday menu. But man, so many things to say about this restaurant.

1:07:35First, like downtown Alhambra is rad and like walking around and seeing a real mix of, you know, Cantonese restaurants and, you know, boba shops and, and then, you know, Kashmir boutiques, you know, it's like really, it's a rapidly changing neighborhood. And it's just interesting. But, but Yang's are really delivered you know the menu splits between like hong kong cantonese and then like i would call it like all day cafe bistro like france you could see it in paris um and like there's a chicken liver mousse that's next to some uh you know cold noodles and um for me there's a few favorites that come to mind i mean like the cornmeal mochi pancakes um with this like a little slather of butter is really a hot, hot tip.

1:08:22You got to order that even if it's later in the day and you're not feeling like pancakes. One thing that I don't want to bury the lead on, this is like a sneaky gluten-free restaurant. They make it very clear in the menu what's gluten-free and there's a lot of gluten-free offerings. I'm not sure if that's intentional or just the way that they're cooking there. But I also love the breakfast plate, which is like a composed, like there's eggs and and like greens. And then you get a choice of a protein so that you could have braised tofu. You could have dried steelhead. You could have hanger steak.

1:08:54Really nice bento style. I just, I loved it. And the cold noodles were, I would say a little bit in the Dandan variety in terms of the way the sauces marry with the noodles and the vegetables. Really great. So you could get like pancakes, Dandan noodles, incredibly great V60 pour over, cappuccinos, and then to close it. And this is like something that everyone talks about is their soft serve. And their classic is Wiser Farm Melon, which is like, you know, the cool melon in Southern California and the great melon. There are good melons. I just had some when I was back. Yeah, no, I mean, I don't want to be shallow and say cool because it's just like a guy, a farmer, he's doing his thing.

1:09:29But like the cool restaurants and the best restaurants are using Wiser and cream. So it's Wiser Melon and Cream soft serve. Just like top to bottom, a really cool place. I love like you can get on the Yelp waiting list pretty easily. I think I waited like 15 minutes. And I know there's longer lines at dinner, but honestly, worth going out to Alhambra. Really close to South Pasadena, I didn't realize. I'm not so familiar with driving around there, but pretty close to LA. Love it. I'm really hoping we can go when we're back in LA soon. I think we might be making a stop there. So maybe we'll have more to say about Yang's Kitchen in forthcoming episodes.

1:10:06Okay, I look forward to it. Thanks for sharing your three things. You too.

1:10:14This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.