487: Ask Sweetgreen Anything with Nicolas Jammet

22:28And really, we'll talk about some of the moments in the restaurant later. I want to hear about you're in 21 states and you've got this ethic, this ethos that you have to stay local. Local is like part of your ethos, but you're like not local. You're like this massive country. That seems difficult to make sure every location uses farms that are within, I would say, a short drive, relatively short drive. How do you do that? Yeah, you know, our food ethos, so as we've scaled and evolved, we've been very conscious to really make sure to really define the food ethos that we want to scale into. And, you know, in our history, we've sourced a ton of local stuff and really celebrate this idea of sourcing from the right farmers.

23:10But the core of the food ethos is, and again, there's a double click on this by category of food, but generally it's about serving really fresh, unprocessed, whole ingredients raised and grown the right way. you know animals raised right no cooking with seed oil so there's all these different points in it but when it comes to especially produce it's uh it's definitely we love to celebrate seasonality and regionality and sourcing from the region's greatest growers and a lot of these great local growers but for us the in the intent is more on how something is grown versus exactly where so something being 99 miles versus you know 200 but if it's grown in this farm that's using regenerative practices, that's organic, that's, you know, using the right seeds or labor or soil management.

23:51Like those things are definitely more important. I mean, the carbon footprint, all that stuff, you try to pay attention to that, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices essentially. Yeah. But even for us, it's like working with growers that are doing things the right way and think about, you know, soil health a certain way that also just leads to better tasting ingredients. So all that stuff is, there's definitely like an environmental impact and we have carbon goals, but ultimately selfishly, part of the reason we source this way is because we think the food tastes better. Yeah. There's definitely an effect on the culture if you're thinking about these sustainable practices and using the products that have...

24:22There's a farmer and not just a farm or a corporation that's going to taste better. Yeah. And so you walk into every sweet green today and there's a chalkboard that lists all of our ingredients. And so it's not... Our food ethos is not about being 100 % local or local for local sake. It is... We love celebrating regionality, but it's about full transparency and clean ingredients and things raised and grown, right? And, you know, talk about another interesting thing. It was like, I remember putting up that first source board in restaurant number four in Logan Circle in DC. And people thought we were crazy.

24:52They're like, in fast food, no one needs to know where your ingredients come from. I'm like, no, we're sourcing from the best like farmers and some at the DuPont farmer's market that all the fine dining chefs are sourcing from. I want people to know, I want to get credit for this. And now it's kind of hard to walk into any restaurant or interact with any fast food restaurant where they're not telling you somewhere. like having some sense of transparency or pretending or pretending. But, and that for us was interesting. It's like when you lift the curtain between customers and their food, they start asking questions at other places.

25:20They're like, oh, well, I know where the food's from here. Like, where's your food from? And they just want that information then. How challenging was it to cook without seed oils? Because I think that that at the scale that you're at, I think that that's probably uncommon in our country. Yeah. I mean, we, I think we were the, and correct me if someone finds someone else, but we couldn't find any national chain that has done this or is committed to that on the oil side. And for us, it was important because part of the evolution is really understanding, you know, our ingredients, our menu and customers in a deeper sense as the world evolves.

25:50And this conversation around seed oils has just grown pretty dramatically. And something that we felt was very important. We had always only used high oleic sunflower oil, which has a great fatty acid profile, actually very similar to, especially we're not frying with it. But for us, the flavor and attributes around extra virgin olive oil and avocado oil were so strong that we wanted to really switch to those. So making that switch last year was pretty huge because, you know, I think, again, in terms of like trusted food, if you're out there at a chain or in any fast food or fast casual setting, even folks, you know, even in some fine dining restaurants, it's hard to really understand all the inputs in your food.

26:26So if you have a place that you trust and you know, and that's important to you, it's really exciting for you. But also if you don't care about it and you hear us talking about it now, you're asking questions about, well, maybe I should think about the oil that's going to my food. But we believed in it so strongly. We said, you know what, we will figure out how to A, get credit for this and make sure that the price value is there. And just, you know, we have other levers in our economic model that we can balance out. But ultimately, it was important to us. So we made the investment. We'll get to the pricing of sweet greens soon.

26:52I think I have a couple questions about that. And I think our listeners probably do too. But first off, I want to ask you about the Harvest Bowl. You've sold 30 million of them and you launched the Autumn Harvest Bowl recently. What is the R &D process like when you're like, I want to actually do Brussels sprouts hot now, which, you know, before they were like more room temperature or cold. And like at the scale of your operation and trying to do it nationwide, it's probably a little aircraft carrier turning style than just quicking you picking up the phone, right? You know, it's really the R &D process, again, has evolved, but it's still really exciting.

27:30And even though we have 240 restaurants, you know, I think we've tried to balance maintaining enough of the speed, agility of a startup with, I guess, the discipline and execution mindset of a public company. And when you find that sweet spot, it's pretty great. So we look at our calendar a year out and we plan these big moments and the seasonal moments are really important to us. So, you know, we've had a pretty big menu transformation the past year and a half, launching protein plates and steak. And so Brussels for us is really exciting because it was going back to this, like, again, speaking to the core of our ethos and our customer.

28:00The seasonal menu that launches has always been big moments for us. And, again, treating a Brussels sprout like, you know, this incredible consumer product that we want to drop and tell stories around. So how we tell the story of the Brussels sprout and how we make it just really craveable. This year we added this, like, sweet, sticky, salty maple flavor to it that was really great and just a lot of excitement around it. So for us, that process starts a year out with our marketing teams, our culinary teams. We spend a lot of time talking to customers to understand even like what names work, what flavors work for them.

28:31So it's kind of a balance of art and science. Yeah. And so you're working on Next Fall right now. Oh, we're working on all of 2025 right now. Got some big things planned for 2025. Some big things. I mean, speaking of this year, you launched the protein plates, you launched steak, which is a huge moment for you. And I'm noticing there's no wraps happening in the restaurant. And you launched with wraps and you launched with soft serve. Obviously, soft serve is so challenging. We know that that's why you're not doing it. But no wraps. Yeah, I would say definitely a great observation. You're being so polite.

29:03You're being very polite. Great observation. You know, I would say the past year and a half, we've been on a pretty big menu transformation. Just really focused on a lot of exciting, you know, broadening of the menu, the categories, adding all these great new flavors. We have another exciting year of that plan. So I would just say like, stay tuned. Stay tuned. Things are under wraps here currently, but maybe check this space later. Okay, that was a keen observation. Okay, the question I kind of teased at earlier is that, you know, the pricing. And I'd like for you to break it down because I think there are people listening and I probably said to myself, this is getting expensive.

29:40These salads are expensive. That's a lot. When you have three salads, it's like over 60. maybe throw in an awesome Rice Krispies treat. We'll get to Malcolm's Rice Krispies too, man. I don't want to hear about those. But when you hear that, when you hear that, man, sweet greens, it's too expensive. How does it make you feel? And what do you say? Yeah. We spend a lot of time thinking about the overall guest experience. And when it comes to that, really thinking about not just price, but really price value. So really thinking about folks are going to pay a certain amount based on the journey they pick, right?

30:12And so it starts is also having a range of pricing. So our approach is making sure that if you want like a simpler$10 bowl or if you want it like fully loaded with like double protein, the range is there from like 10 to 20 plus. And so, or if you want the Rice Krispie Chew or the drink. So like that range is kind of there for you to select having more entry point pricing all the way to - Dude, I try to do, I do the$12 order sometimes. I'm like, how can I get to 12? And I'm like, man, I got to 12 today. I'm not always at 12, but I'm trying to get to 12. So I think that's like pricing strategy, but I think the broader price value, and we've talked a lot about this so far on our conversation is how do we make sure we are getting credit and sharing the stories on everything that goes into that food, like the true cost of this food from the oils to how we source to the incredible team members that are scratch cooking in our restaurants and even how we design our restaurants to the source board.

30:58How do we make sure that folks understand everything that goes into that price? So price value is a big one. And for us, I think pricing has been a really interesting dynamic the last year or two because if you look at the consumer and you just look at the range of what's happening with inflation and pricing across all the restaurant categories, I feel like the differential between us and some other folks is shrinking. So we obviously are premium, but I think we are the difference in how much more street green is versus some other fast food folks. I'll say the golden arches, if you hit that touchscreen and you're doing orders for three or four, yeah, it might be in the 20s.

31:34It might be in the 30s. So we're seeing some interesting dynamics of trade up from folks that are like, hey, for a dollar or two more, I can get this. Yeah. And some interesting trade down because restaurants have also gotten expensive. So on like a Tuesday, Wednesday night, when maybe you would have gone to sit at the bar at somewhere or order delivery, you're like, well, I'd rather spend 25 bucks for dinner and get delivery versus 60 or 70. And honestly, when you talk about the price value, the protein plate launch was actually pretty intentional around thinking about something that made, that had really strong price value for dinner, especially.

32:02And so we've seen that since we've launched, customers really opting for that at dinner because, you know, we were talking about this earlier, If you're in one of these mega cities, especially like you open your ordering app. So in one of these like marketplaces or anywhere and to get a solid protein centric hearty plate of food that you trust and that is delicious and clean, you know, for under 20 bucks is like kind of a deal. Yeah, you're giving Grubhub like$4.99. So like you got that going for you too, you know. And so for us, it's been really interesting to see how our customers are using our products across the spectrum of day parts and the range of pricing.

32:35But it's something we're really conscious of. We want to create value for customers. But at the same time, we want to pay our farmers what we want to pay them. We want to make sure team members are getting paid right. So the whole economic model and all the stakeholders are – and then we have to be profitable. We're a public company. And so balancing all those things is challenging. But we're on a great road there. So with the rise of a Zimpik, obviously protein plays a role in that diet choice. So do you think about the changing taste when these injectables become part of our culture? you know for good and for bad but i'm not you to say they're all bad is it would be ignorant of me and you know i know the books program here um if you look across pangarandamouse we are publishing so many protein cookbooks and it's affecting our work it's got to be affecting your work too yeah it's a great question i mean it's interesting to look at consumers and their relationship and connections they make between food and health and you know the rise of these jlp1s is really interesting uh you know there's a really funny analyst report that kind of said that these jlp1s actually become a tailwind for someone like sweetgreen because if you're eating less, the food you are cutting out is actually more of the junk food and processed food.

33:41And when you do have to eat, you're going to eat something that's a little more nutrient dense and protein rich. And so, you know, I don't have, you know, a direct opinion on the GLP-1s. I think what's really most important is folks understand like the root cause and the power of food. Yeah. I would imagine the tailwind is real because if you're eating one meal a day too, You probably want protein, but you want good protein and well-sourced protein. So I think there's going to be a lot of tailwinds in food that we attribute to these injectables. So what's the future of Sweetgreen Media? I use a capital M here.

34:10I've always admired the way your company has embraced print. You've always had printed materials in restaurants, in newspapers. You've always had incredible art. There's a real visual identity. And I feel like Sweetgreen is a media company in many ways. I know you don't publish books or magazines, but I remember you had some great magazines in your Nomad location. I remember you could show up and there'd be cool magazines on the rack. That's how far back I go with the brand. So how do you think about Sweetgreen as a media company? And do you have any book plans? Yeah, great question. I would say if you zoom out, I see one of the superpowers of Sweetgreen as a business and brand is really our, you know, the storytelling aspect of and our connection to food.

34:55And so, you know, I think over the years, we tell our stories around food in different ways through like physical assets like newspapers and print, really a lot through experiential elements like we've talked about the festival. But, you know, one of the things we focus most on, especially emerging from COVID the last year or two, is like how do we bring back this sense of like community and physicality and bringing people together around food? And so when we talk about media, for me, it's this broader narrative of like storytelling. So at some point, there'll be a book, you know, like we'll want to like capture.

35:23What kind of books do you want to do? Our stories. And I'm going to come to you for advice. We have a bunch of ideas, but you're one of the experts. Hey, man, you can roll with us at Crown. I would love to have you here. We have some very talented editors. Yeah. We'd love to work with you. We'll definitely be coming to get your advice. And yeah, we definitely want to tell our story in print form also. But I think for us, storytelling in media is everything from our campaigns, how they come to life, to the experience you create in the restaurants, to some of the larger physical experiential things we want to do.

35:48I mean, even with our Brussels Sprouts campaign, it's probably one of my favorite campaigns we did. and I have to shout out our creative team, you know, Jillian and Micah, you know, did this incredible job of bringing this like incredible, you know, like aesthetic to the farm. And we brought these creators, Aki and Kochi, who are these fashion creators, this famous old Japanese couple that do these like fit checks. And we brought them to the Brussels sprout field and we did this whole photo shoot with them and put them in this new sweet green gear. And we just, you know, kind of celebrated the Brussels sprout like it was a fashion campaign.

36:20Yeah, you clearly bring fashion into the world. I mean, you've had Naomi Osaka as a spokesperson. You've had, you know, fashion shows in fields. You know, it's cool. I mean, listen, you could be doing it many ways. You could be doing it like a bland fast food chain and is growing with that. But I think you guys get style points. And I know you don't do it all for bottom line. You do it because you're creators and you're like wanna actually be original. Yeah. Thank you. Nick, what gets you out of bed in the morning, jumping out and ready for work? What excites you the most? You know, every morning I get up super grateful that I get to be building something, a company that is having great, creating great change in the world.

37:01So I think this idea of like changing the food system, redefining fast food, it's like, that's a big idea. And we started Sweetgreen, the three of us would often say, we want to build something that's, you know, generational and can be around for a hundred years. So, you know, I get really excited, even though we're at 240 restaurants, we're public, it sounds really big. it is still tiny compared to what it could be and what it should be. You know, there are thousands or tens of thousands of restaurants of all these other fast food chains. And we believe the future of how folks are going to eat represents our food ethos.

37:31And so we want to create more of that change in the world. So every day I get up excited and grateful that the product and the stories I put into the world are doing good. So Nick, how do you think about the CPG products at checkout? I feel like we've got Malcolm Livingston's amazing Rice Krispie treat, but better squares. And, but you also have like cool, you have Ghia there sometimes, you have Spindrift, you have like brands that I really like that I connect with you, Alipop. How do you think about that? You know, we've been having a lot of fun there. I mean, historically, we haven't had that many brands in our restaurants.

38:02We were very kind of protective of the experience in the counter space. And obviously, historically finding products that fit our ethos was tough, whether it's like what's in it or the materiality. but we've really been broadening and trying to have some fun with some of these like, you know, future food brands that are telling great stories. And so we had a lot of fun, you know, creating the sweet green treat with Malcolm Livingston. He is, I think, one of the greatest talents in the whole industry. I love Malcolm. He's a star. And so that was really great. We did a collab with Siete Chips. So their first kind of collab product, we took our green goddess ranch dressing and turned it into a chip flavor.

38:35They are an incredible company, incredible product, all avocado oil. So I felt really good about that. And then, yeah, Ghia. You know, we're really thinking about our beverage offering. We have Ghia in a number of our cities, New York, LA, and Miami, I believe. I just really love the product. And she's one of my favorite founders and entrepreneurs of all time. Yeah, Melanie is terrific. I think we have a lot of founders listening to the show and many on the show. And I think many covet that slot at Sweetgreen. So how do you scout talent for that slot? I mean, should they just like hit you up on Instagram?

39:04I'm joking. or should they like think about a product that addresses a certain need that you're looking for? Yeah, I would say all of the above. We are incredibly curious at Street Green and we want to taste everything. So the amount of samples we get sent to the office is amazing and I love it. And a lot of them make us think differently about what we should serve. A lot of them were like, we want to serve this. And so I feel like the world of CPG is rapidly changing and it's really exciting to see. So I love tasting everything. So if you have great products, send it our way. Would you ever do retail?

39:35Would you ever go into that realm? Not just selling salads and whatnot, but like actually selling food? You know, probably not a focus for us, but you know, never say never to most things. Good, good answer. On This Is Taste, we asked guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Nick, are you ready? Yes. The best fruit? Figs. Wow. What a California answer. I love it. What makes a fig so special? It hasn't been actually mentioned that often in the show. Really? Really? You know, there's certain fruits that when they're at their peak season, there's just nothing greater.

40:08And a fig is just so sweet and creamy. And, you know, I find myself like having one and then I finish the whole basket within two minutes. It's so true. The worst vegetable? Tomatoes out of season from the grocery store. Yeah. Even though it's technically a fruit, I guess, right? It's a fruit, but it counts in, you know, spiritually it's the same. Right. And you don't serve those times. You don't serve that kind at Sweetgreen. No. How do you actually think about tomatoes though? So, I mean, this is a big question and I know at the end of this, but like, it's like you've got 21 states worth of locations.

40:38How do you keep your tomato game in general? Yeah. You know, our supply chain is made up of so many great regional growers, but it's also like the foundation of it is like some of the country's largest great organic regenerative growers are folks that are just like, you know, doing things the right way. So, I actually think a lot of our tomatoes come from Lipman in Florida, who is an incredible grower, you know, really focused on even like the labor on their farm. They've got a great program and then how they treat the soil. So for us, again, it's really focused on, especially in the Northeast where things just don't grow for parts of the year, on how things are grown versus exactly always where.

41:11Have you checked out the farm? I have not, but our supply chain team has been down there many times. Yeah, that's cool. I should go check it out. Yeah, it'd be cool. I feel like you do visible. If you want to come, we can go for a tomato farm tour. Go check out Lippman Farms. Yeah, why not? The best dessert? Canelé and soft serve. Together. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so is this served somewhere or do you just like riff this at home? No. I mean, two separate, but also together would be good. Oh, I see. It's like a semicolon there. Okay, I get it now. But together would be delicious. Yeah, together would be delicious.

41:40And I am imagining the Combi Canelé was a favorite of yours. Yes, I miss it dearly. I miss that dearly too. What a special restaurant dish. All right, a few more. A restaurant you are most excited to visit in the world? The Harbor House Inn in California. Oh, tell me about it. I don't know it. It is, I think in Mendocino. it's kind of off the grid pretty like remote but everything's grown there it's supposed to be like an incredible culinary experience and then you stay there and it's like this gorgeous like seaside landscape and so beautiful a restaurant you would like to bring back from the dead you know I have to say my parents restaurant like Caravelle yeah yeah I feel like that's a restaurant that if you read the New York Times from like 1970, 1990 there is always going to be a mention either as the society pages or the culinary pages What was so special about this restaurant?

42:32You know, it was like a different era. It was like full three-hour lunches. It was a full, just like a different point in the life of food in New York. And I think it had such a place in New York's history. And so many folks had great memories there and great meals there. And I grew up there. And I just feel like it had a very different perspective when it came to classic French fine dining, but also kind of more modern hospitality and sense of community there. Yeah, yeah. A favorite city outside America to visit for food? I mean, Tokyo. Yeah. You trying to make it with some frequency? I used to go quite a bit.

43:13And since COVID, I've not gone. So I'm dying to go back there with the kids. Is there an international plan for Sweetgreen? My answer is always yes, in a few years. I've been saying that for five years. So yes, in a few years. In a few years. we don't have to go further than that but I think it would probably do okay in many one of my dreams in life is to have a sweet green in Tokyo yeah I think that would align I mean the design questions that you just are asked oh my gosh you'll do it yeah we will one day last one your favorite sandwich honestly I'm a sucker for like a room service club sandwich what hotel most any I will say I have a special place in my heart for the club sandwich at the Bristol hotel in Paris Yeah.

43:57Take us through that sandwich a little bit. Just like the layers, the ratios, I mean, everything. It's great. Yeah. And the mayonnaise choice? Yes. Yes. The answer is yes. Extra mayo. Extra mayo. I'm sure in France it's like the homemade aioli and not one of the American brands. Nick Jemais, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste.

44:27What's up, Eliza? How are you? I'm good, Matt. It's been a while since we've caught up. Well, you know what? We've been traveling, and you just took a really cool trip to the Pacific Northwest. Tell me about it. Yeah, I was in Seattle, which I think is maybe the best food city in the country. Wow. Bold statement, I know. I mean, I think there are many amazing food cities in the U.S., but this was my second time in Seattle, and I just have such phenomenal meals when I'm there, and specifically meals that I think are kind of hard to find in other places. And the first restaurant that I went to that was really special is called Sofon.

44:59And it's a Cambodian restaurant that was on BA's top 10 best new restaurants list this year. And that list happened to come out kind of shortly after I was in Seattle. So we managed to get a reservation. And it really was just such incredible food. They specifically do Khmer cuisine, which was passed down to the chefs from their great-grandmother to their mother, Sofon, who the restaurant is named after. and their family are refugees that survived the Cambodian genocide and they really kind of take this opportunity to share Khmer culture and cuisine really seriously, but also just have a lot of fun with the food on the menu.

45:36There are a lot of things I had that were really good that I would shout out, but a couple would be this, they call it like kamarage fried chicken. It was so juicy, like maybe the best fried chicken I've had in recent memory. A kamarage, I like this. It's like a karage, it's like a little bit of a wordplay. Exactly, which I'm not sure, If that's a really common phrase for it, if that's just what they're doing at this restaurant. When I Googled, I couldn't really tell. But it was really delicious. This like seared mushrooms with a spicy tomato relish and their house chili oil that kind of goes on everything.

46:07And then also this kind of braised pork belly dish that's called, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing this right, but kasakruk, which is pork belly slow braised in tamari coconut milk with pickled and fried shallots and kind of savory and sweet. and I had this very cute experience of having this bite at the end of the meal. And in unison, my girlfriend's dad goes, oh, this is so Taiwanese. And I go, this tastes just like Rosh Hashanah brisket, which obviously braised pork belly does not really taste like Rosh Hashanah brisket. But there's like flavors that remind you of the table. This kind of like sweet, savory, like somehow it had this like almost like alcoholic, like red wine braised kind of feeling going on.

46:47It just was a really special meal. The food of Cambodia is something that I think we've obviously written a lot about Thailand and Vietnam, Laos a bit more, but Cambodia feels like it's a little bit less covered in our media. Yeah, I think Cambodian food is so special and we're lucky here in New York. The chef that does the pop-up, Krung Cambodia, is actually opening a restaurant that I think is going to open. I mean, it's been in the ether, but maybe new to the podcast. It's going to be called Bong, which I believe means friend in Khmer. And it's opening in the old Ursula space. I'm not sure quite when, but I know I'll be going as soon as I can.

47:22I have to zoom out ever so slightly. And you're saying this is the best food city in America, Seattle. And this isn't like the halo, the glow of a recent trip. You went there a little while ago. So you've been to other cities since then. So, man, I like this statement. It was just such a good meal. And then I followed it up with another really good meal at a restaurant called Family Friend, which is a Guamanian restaurant. So it's food from the island of Guam, which I don't think I'd ever had before, which also is what I'm saying about Seattle, just kind of having lots of pockets of different kinds of culinary representation.

47:53And I had actually the best corn soup of my entire life at Family Friend. They're famous for a Kewpie smash burger. They actually went viral for that. And the chef has said that he put that on the menu for the neighborhood kids. Like he didn't actually like really want to be known for this necessarily. And it was a good burger, but really this corn soup is a coconut, soy, corn, chicken soup, kind of partially pureed. And then it has little chunks of corn and chicken in it. It was just so incredible. We also had these empanadas that they call like Chamorro empanadas, which is the largest ethnic group in Guam.

48:29So it had like beef, potatoes, peas, and also golden raisins. And it's kind of the experience of eating there. You really get a sense of the fact that, you know, Guam is an unincorporated U.S. territory. It was colonized by Spain for a long time. It was occupied by Japan for a couple of years during World War II. There's so many different influences that come into the island that were on the menu. I've never heard of a Romanian restaurant ever in my time. This is incredible. It was awesome. Very cool. And there were a lot of food people that were clearly there. The guy sitting next to me at the bar just walked in and I knew that he was a chef based off the tattoos alone and how he proceeded to interact with everyone throughout the meal.

49:03I was like, okay, this is definitely a right instinct. um so i would highly recommend going to both of these places if you're in seattle yeah i have to shout out uh my interview with renee erickson will be forthcoming and then coming a couple months and i had a great talk with her yeah there's one more thing that i did in the pacific northwest that i wanted to tell you about which is that i went crabbing have you done this before never have what's that all about like going to the bay and then taking out a boat in the mud throwing out crab pots and then hoisting up crabs wait you i'm like i was thinking like you were doing like tidal crabbing like dipping your hand into mud but you actually went on boats with the pods yeah uh and we were like cool we were not prepared how intense it was gonna end up being they were selling gloves like for extra right and we were like oh we don't we don't really need gloves you're like that's a scam you're like new yorkers you're like that's yeah literally me and my sister both got pinched started like bleeding all over the boat like it's serious business you hoist up the crab pot and i just wasn't expecting us to actually catch that many crabs but all of a sudden they're just like 30 crabs in the boat and they're all scuttling around and you have to pick them up and measure them you can only keep male crabs of a certain size so all of the female crabs get thrown back to repopulate all of the smaller male crabs get thrown back and we caught maybe like 50 crabs i would say i think we had to toss back we tossed back all of them except for four but we ended up having four male crabs that were big enough to keep um which there were four of us in the boat so that was kind of perfect and we took them just straight back to the dock and they cleaned them and steamed them for us.

50:36And then we bought like a little plastic cup of chopped garlic and butter and then microwaved it and had garlic butter to eat the crabs with. So how do you do this? Is there like a name of the operation? If you go to, we were in Rockaway Beach, actually like not Queens Rockaway, but Oregon Rockaway. And there's all down the marina, little places you can go to where you can rent a crab boat for the day. I think it was like 60 bucks an hour. And then you also have to have a fishing license that you can get there. But it honestly, if we had not caught anything, so would have been fun just because you're on the water driving around.

51:12But getting to like catch and eat crabs right there was kind of the perfect Pacific Northwest send off. So that's my other recommendation is that especially like in the summer, early fall, like it's kind of perfect time to do it. Definitely. And so how far from Portland is this crabbing? operation this was like uh maybe a two and a half hour drive we actually did a little cute road trip where we went to a mushroom forging spot that my sister has and we got a ton of chanterelle mushrooms which is really special and then stopped at the tillamook cheese factory oh yeah right where you can get like ice cream and lots of cheese obviously and then ended at the coast so it was kind of a little progression so in portland i'm putting in spot is there like a favorite restaurant in portland that you keep going back to?

51:58Yeah, well, I don't know. I'm not even mentioning Portland because there's great food there too. We went to Hot Gye, which is this Thai place that's I think very known for doing fried chicken, but all kinds of things that they do are special. We had like a white curry with brisket burnt ends in it, which I'd never had before. That was really cool. Oh, cool. I had some really good pho when we were there. And then when I was flying to the airport, I got a banh mi from one of the many delicious drive-through banh mi places in Portland and then ate that on the plane, which was like the best plane food I've ever had.

52:28Yeah, I love that. I think you've, I mean, Pacific Northwest, fall into winter, it's a great time of year to go there. It's a great time to go. The farmer's markets are really beautiful there. I think it's a combination of just, there's really high quality seafood and produce out there. And then also just so many different immigrant groups that have brought culinary traditions with them and made like really special restaurants. I have to shout out Dew's, which is the teriyaki chicken spot in Portland. I write about it in Korea World. Amazing teriyaki. I don't know if you've ever tried Dew's before.

53:01No, I wanted to because we published a really great profile about the history of teriyaki in the Pacific Northwest. Of course we did. That's right. Shout out to that. Which we could link to in the show notes maybe. But it was just one of those things where somehow there weren't enough meals in the day. Definitely never are. So, you know, luckily I have a vested interest in going back. So maybe my next trip I'll go. Yeah, well, maybe we'll bring, you know, producer Clayton along. Maybe I'll show up and we can do a little road trip. Yeah, we can go back on the crab boat too. Oh, let's go on the crab boat with the microphone boom.

53:29I can see you, Clayton, getting some nice sounds there. Yeah, the sounds of us screaming as we get pinched by crabs. I'm going to bring gloves this time. Yeah, you should. Well, thanks for sharing that, Eliza. Yeah, thanks for asking.

53:44This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.