488: There's a Bread Baker Inside All of Us with David Tamarkin

25:30and he just wrote a blog for us. Oh, nice. Yeah, there's a bread machine book out this fall as well. So I think it seems like there's definitely a resurgence perhaps. I think it is his. Anyway, so yeah, there is a resurgence. You know, this thing has never left. It's a, I don't know, New York City, how many people have them? I mean, it's a hulk of a machine. It's a big machine, but I think if you need, you don't have like a big oven space or you don't even have an oven, you can, bread machine seems like the perfect solution. And with sticky doughs, you know, enriched doughs, like, I don't like, I have a thing.

26:01I don't know what you call it, but I really don't like touching it. I don't like anything sticky. You got to check out that podcast, Ologies. Okay, so I have an ology. They probably can sort it out, what that means. So the bread machine, I should have one because it'll just mix all the sticky doughs for me. Speaking of sticky doughs, we hear about the term hydration quite a bit. And let our listeners know, what does it mean exactly? And you had mentioned earlier how starting with a lower hydration bread is maybe great for beginners. But talk us through a little bit of what that word means. Hydration just refers to the amount of water in your dough.

26:38Hydration can come from water or anything that is mostly water, like juice or milk. But things like oil, eggs, that doesn't count. It's really the things that are water, mostly water. And you basically can't have gluten formation without water. You know, when the gluten in flour mixes with water, that's when everything starts to spark and come together. And you need a strong gluten network to trap the gases of fermentation. Basically, what I'm saying is you need strong gluten in order for your bread to rise. No, you said it really well. So a 45, 50, 60 percent hydration dough, which some pan loaves are, is going to feel really nice and tacky, but not sticky in your hand.

27:22You know, like it's going to feel like the other side of a sticky note, you know, a post-it note. Yeah. You know, where nothing's going to come off. You're going to be able to shape it really nicely. A dough that's 75, 80, 90, 100, and you can have 110 percent, 150 percent. I love that idea of like over 100 % hydration. Those doughs are going to be like soup in the beginning before they start fermenting. I mean, it's going to be a big challenge to shape and to mix. And so you either want to use a mixer or you want to be a pro or just give it time because over time with fermentation, things get less sticky and more manageable.

27:59But yeah, does that answer the question for you? Absolutely, David. You really answered it well. So I have another question about the book. You have a lot of voices from the outside coming in. And I like that about King Arthur brings in all sorts of bread bakers from around the world of food. Let's talk about a few of the contributors in the book. Okay, sure. Can I talk about the main contributors of the book, the writers of the book? Because I'm not a writer on this book. The writers are Jessica Batalana, Martin Phillip, and Melanie Wanders. Some of the best writers and bakers in the country.

28:30You know, Martin's one of the best bread bakers in the country. Melanie is one of the best pastry chefs and now Brett Baker's in the country. Jessica, of course. I don't think she's been on the show, but she's long overdue. She's, you know, the author of Repertoire and she's an editor with me at King Arthur. Yeah. Brilliant team. And a contributor of Taste, I believe, in the early days. She's writing everywhere. You know, sometimes I see her byline. I'm like, oh, she's writing for The Times? Yeah. So an amazing team. And yes, but, you know, it's a team that doesn't have expertise, you know, of every single global bread.

28:59So we brought in people like Hedy McKinnon. And, you know, we brought in people. I think Betty Lou is in there. So, you know, just to bring in some of the global breads that we didn't feel that we necessarily had the expertise in-house to, you know, put in the book. The point of the book really was to, you know, be as comprehensive as possible without being like a six-volume, you know, thing. Something with Lab in the title or something. Right, right, right. So I wasn't thinking about that. With Modernist in the title. You know, and I, well, it was important to me to put out a book that was not only sourdough.

29:31So many of the bread books that have come out in the past few years, including some really incredible ones like Maurizio's book. Perfect Love. Perfect Love. It's a great book. You know, I'm a huge fan of Tara Jensen. Yeah. I think her book is so fun. Flower Power. Yep. But those books are very, they are exclusively sourdough. And there's a whole world of baking outside of sourdough, just as there's a whole world of baking outside of European, you know, Western civilization baking. I mean, there's just so much exciting stuff. So there's like an incredible sesame bing in this book. There are some steamed buns.

30:08There's a bunch of in the Flatbreads chapter, just so many wonderful things. I love it. Do you have QR codes in the book? I do have. Yes, I. We do have. I mean, I know you're not the primary author. I am King Arthur. I love QR codes in cookbooks, particularly for technique-driven cookbooks, which bread baking is. So it's chock full of QRs. It points back to your great content. And there's so many recipes. It's exhaustive in a great way, not exhausting. And I highly recommend picking it up. And thanks for shouting out those other books too, Flour Power and The Perfect Loaf. You can't just have one bread book, right?

30:42Well, you can now because our book, I mean, but you can throw them all away. You took it, David, and you ran with it. No, I mean, these are people that are in our orbit that we use all the time. You know, Maritio, Tara, they've been in our blog on our YouTube channel. We really want to create like, you know what was really cool, Matt, was when we went to go to get the blurbs for this book. Reaching out to people like Dan Leder, Ken Forkish, Claire, they all were like so excited to do it. And I think that speaks to the community of bakers, one thing. You know, I think bakers are just by nature generous people.

31:15Yeah. and we do a lot to support other people's books we're always you know you know throwing people like flower or tools to put in their media kits or like support an event or something um and also just yeah these books are these books are incredible so i think you're right not there is no reason why you should only have one bread book there's so many different ways to do things which is a real challenge when you're writing a bread book because yeah you really have to decide one way because otherwise you're going to confuse people but if you have the whole breadth of If you haven't reached the O, you have King Arthur's stuff, you have Forkish, you're going to get a very wide range of, oh, Dan Leder too.

31:49Dan Leder is another great, generous guy. And I love his books. So you get all these people together. You have them on your bookshelf. You have a very good view of all the different ways to do things. David, on This is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, Fast and Furious taste check. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right. The best fruit? Apples. Apples were not my favorite food until I started spending more time in Vermont. Vermont apples kill. They're so good. And now I can't eat any other apple. But Vermont apples is really my answer.

32:19Okay. I think Vermont is like number four for me. Number three is New York State. Number two is California. And number one is West Michigan. Okay. I mean Midwest. West Michigan apples. I'll give you that. Maybe not California. Very surprised by California. I think like Washington actually. Sorry. Washington. I kind of missed on that one. California Washington we're kind of the same yeah it's all the same all the same no it's not not the same just kidding the worst vegetable bananas I know it's not a vegetable but any but I just can't I mean I totally didn't answer the question I hate I hate bananas so much that even when I just think produce you say worst vegetable I just think banana like it's just I mean bananas are just the worst just the worst thing with the worst thing that was ever created um I couldn't I really I don't know I I love I truly love all vegetables I'm not a huge fan of okra yeah okra can be but I'm not gonna say it's the worst vegetable no but bananas back to that you know Rene Rizepi and Matt Golding just did Omnivore it's a great show on Apple TV plus and one of the episodes is about bananas that's disgusting I'm never gonna watch oh my god David you gotta check it out no I truly would I would I would hurl like I would I would not be able to watch that I can't be I can't be in a room you know what my worst nightmare that's an ology right there that's definitely an ology and people have that's it's not an uncommon one but you know when you're on the subway like the worst or on a plane and then someone next to you is eating a banana like it is it's the worst thing for me i honestly start to panic like what am i going to do if this person opens this banana which they ultimately do and then sometimes people eat half a banana and leave it somewhere or they're just holding or they're just holding now they're just holding an empty banana peel on their lap they put it in back into their bag i mean it is They put it in the seat back pocket on a plane.

34:05Oh. That's tough. You know what really bothers me about bananas? When people cut them in half the knife and then they give them out as halves. Something about that skews me out. Wait, what do you mean? Like at a party or something? I don't know. Like at a 5K? At the end of a 5K? I just like, it's kind of like, I don't want half of this banana that I'm going to eat as exposed to like the box. Anyways. I mean, the minute you cut it, it's oxidized. It's brown. You just sold me up eating on bananas. Thank you. What if I want? Let's go on the posse side. The best dessert. I think blueberry pie is really high up there.

34:38I think rhubarb pie, like 100 % rhubarb pie. I think pie is the best dessert. Fleeting season on rhubarb. Blueberry also fleeting season. So you're like one of those like select VIP pies that only happens like three weeks out of the year. Yeah. And then I'll go with, then in the winter you can do apple pie, cream pie. But yeah, I think the rhubarb and the blueberry pies are better. Pie over cake then. yeah fair alright your favorite American fast food chain Wendy's haven't had it in a long time never has been mentioned on this show really no one's mentioned Wendy's square hamburgers bro that's what makes it good really I don't know I mean first of all it's Ohio I'm from Ohio I think Wendy's was an Ohio thing yeah I think Dave Dave Dave Thomas Dave Thomas yeah but he was like really into adoption yeah And I thought that was cool.

35:32I don't know. Dave Thomas, like peaks and valleys of Dave Thomas. Man's a gentleman of multitudes. Yeah, like Wendy was adopted. Okay. And now I'm adopting it as my favorite. I love that one. I don't know. I just have, I haven't eaten Wendy's in a long time, but I remember going in high school a lot. And I don't know. I just thought it was made to order, I thought was the thing. Or was that Burger King? Definitely Burger King. Maybe Wendy's. but do you remember the super bar? I was going to say, the salad bar, right. It wasn't just a salad bar, my friend. It was the super bar. Yeah, the super salad bar.

36:07Yeah, the super bar. Three tiers of bar, salad in the middle, and then it had Italian bar, and then it had Mexican taco bar. So for like$4.99 in like 1992, you could go to a Wendy's and fill up your plate with salad and with rigatoni something, and then definitely like a bean burrito. Sounds great, right? Yeah, and so why is it not the best fast food? I mean, you're making the case for me. Fair enough. I just want to say that when the Superbar started, I thought, you know, I don't know how old we were when that started, 13 maybe? 13, 11, 10. And I thought, oh, like the Wendy's I go to is like the best Wendy's.

36:47Like we're the one with the Superbar. I was like, there's absolutely no way that they have this in every Wendy's now across the country. It was like a catastrophic failure. And someone in media needs to pick it up into an oral history of the super bar. Just saying. Your favorite cookbook of all time? I think it's six seasons. That's amazing. I think, I don't think there's, I mean, there's no book that I go back to again and again and again more than that book. I think the concept of that book is just brilliant. I think the design is gorgeous. Every single recipe works. Not only does it work, it's absolutely delicious.

37:21I don't know. I just think, I just really love that book. It's amazing that you bring that up. I was just talking to you about it with an author who cites it in her book as such an influential work. Joshua McFadden did this book like eight years ago, and it's become canon. Yeah, I think immediately it was canon. And so I think it's obviously props to McFadden, but also to Martha Holmberg, who was a co-writer. I think she did a lot to help shape that book. I'd like to thank Martha Holmberg as well for working with Joshua and making that one of the most iconic books of a generation. A favorite recent cookbook discovery?

38:02Like a new cookbook? Yeah, something that's crossed your wire, something that you've hit a PDF, hit you. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what? The Kismet book from L.A. I've actually been cooking from that. I don't know how much buzz it's getting. I get the sense it's maybe not getting out there very much. You know, on the surface, it didn't look like particularly new. Like it didn't look like there was much new stuff in there because we've had a lot of these Mediterranean books come out. There's a lot of, you know, but I love those restaurants in L.A. And I don't know. I thought there was some interesting ideas.

38:41And I've been cooking from it. The Sarah's are great. And that book is getting buzzed. We published it here at Clarkson Potter. And it's a really terrific book from this past spring. so I'm glad you brought that one up. Yeah. I remember when I moved back to New York, I don't know, about 10 years ago, I think one of the servers was still at Glasserie, and my apartment was, like, right down the street from Glasserie. So I have warm feelings about her and just what she can do. That was a really short-lived but amazing restaurant. I got to go one time. That was, like, your local. That's cool. Yeah, it was great.

39:11A cuisine you would like to learn more about? It's always Chinese food. So I grew up in Ohio, in Cincinnati, Ohio, not a very strong Chinese restaurant culture. Yeah. And I grew up with the misunderstanding that Chinese food was orange chicken, lemon chicken, you know, whatever. Americanized Chinese food. Yeah, which I love that stuff, but I really regret that I kind of came up in a culture that I just didn't, you know, this incredible cuisine that's so vast and so varied, so delicious, and that deficit has just stayed with me my entire life. I feel like I can't catch up. So I'm always feeling like that's the one I need to learn more about.

39:53I love that answer. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Chicken parm sandwich? I always thought you'd go plant-based for some reason. I don't know why. So you regret the decision. I mean, I do, I could go, I could definitely go also go old school, like California sandwich, like the avocado and the sprouts. I'm not going to pull you, my man. No, but that is also true. The truth is that falafel, is that considered a falafel? Sandwich and pita? It's on the buffer, on the fringe. I can honestly tell you the only thing I ever want to eat is a sandwich. Love it. It's all sandwiches except beef. And, of course, with some fresh-baked bread that you bake yourself.

40:28Right. I would love it. Always. David DeMarcon, what a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you.

40:43Hey, Eliza, we're back with three things. I'm so excited. What's your first thing? I went to Laveau d 'Or for like a birthday dinner with me and two friends who both had birthdays around this time of year. And I really loved it. Have you been? I haven't been. Tell me all about it. I'm really curious. There's been a lot of hype around it, I think for good reason. Some facts about the restaurant. It was established in 1937 and then it was reopened, I think, this fall by the guys from Frenchette and La Roque, chefs Riyad Nasser and Lee Hansen. And it's a set menu, only 50 seats in the restaurant.

41:17So it's kind of a hard reservation to get, which meant that we did have a 5 p.m. dinner on the Upper East Side, which felt very fitting, honestly. And I love it. You pick an appetizer, an entree, and a dessert per person. And then everyone gets salad course as well after the entree. And it was really fun. It's very classic French food. We got pomme souffle with caviar. But they were very – it was also like a potato chip, like a giant puffed hollow potato chip that's perfect for the creme fraiche and the caviar. we got pâté and crut, steak au poivre with frites, etc. Avec frites. Avec frites, yeah.

41:51This is exactly what it sounds like when I was in Paris. But it was really great. And it was a very interesting mix of people who are maybe love on the Upper East Side or working over there. Kind of a fun dining room to be in. It's cool that you went there and I was going to ask you about the scene check, but it sounds like it's very Upper East Side with, you know, some food fans. Because these chefs have run some of our most popular and acclaimed restaurants in the past decade. Yeah, I think everything was really beautiful. If I was going to be picky, I would say the desserts were kind of a disappointment after everything else.

42:22Like really the appetizer and entree were beautiful dishes, very delicious, composed really well. And I think the desserts just kind of weren't quite there, which was a bit of a disappointment, especially because I was with Tanya, who takes dessert very seriously. But I really liked it and I would definitely go back. What's your first thing? My first thing is I've mentioned it briefly, but Bowie has a new flavor and it rolls pink guava, la guayaba. Bowie's is aqua fresca company that is based in Austin, Texas, founded by Victor Guardiola and Jordan Hicks. And I have been crushing these cans. It's probably my favorite flavor yet.

43:02You know, Bowie has a really cool concept. They're doing aqua fresca, but they're trying to, you know, they're keeping it like 40 calories per can. And with that, it's all naturally sweetened. And I love the way it's like sour in the right way for a commercial product. It's almost like these are fresh juices that we've concocted or we've put in our own dilution. And I just love the way I love the branding as well. But I love the way that they are bringing these flavors to the mainstream. I love their passion fruit as well. Have you tried any of these products, Bowie? No, I've had the watermelon one before.

43:36Or, you know, you turned me on to them. And then when I wrote that article for Taste last year about like the apex of peak beverage, peak beverage. Thank you. I'm like, why can't I remember my own headline? When I wrote that peak beverage story, they were one of the brands that I talked to because I thought they were doing a really interesting thing of having kind of cultural beverages that have a little bit of a spin on them. And they also had just gotten a big sprouts distribution at the time. So I think they're kind of reaching a point where they should be easier to find. Yeah, I think so. I've only found them at like small shoppy shops and I wish they would be at like ShopRite.

44:09That would be cool. But, you know, great things come from Bowie. And I just love that. I'd love to have the founders on the show. What's your next thing? My next thing is I went to a really great pop up on Sunday. It was from ZNZ, which is a DC based, like Palestinian Jordanian family run Manoush Bakery and Zaatar Company. I've been following them online for a while, wanting to try their stuff. And luckily, my friends Arsh and Noreen brought them out here to New York to do a pop-up at Huda in Williamsburg to kind of feed the community and also raise money for two mutual aides in Lebanon and Gaza.

44:42They were doing this, you know, traditional Manoush flatbread on the saj, which is the big domed kind of grill, I guess, just straight up on the sidewalk. And they had maybe like 15 members of their family there, including like sister-in-law from Jersey working the cash register, dad and like three of the sons behind the kind of bar area where they were making everything. It was just really delicious. I think my favorite one was called the Tomb Raider, which has the tomb drizzled over the flatbread with, you know, za 'atar and cucumber and tomato on top. And I also was talking to my friend Noreen, who did the dessert there.

45:16She did like a Kier rice pudding with apple butter and toffee that was quite good. And she told me just a little bit about the family history that I think is interesting, which is that their father opened a fried chicken and sub shop called Chicken Tonight in Rockville, Maryland. And it was open from 1982 to 2006. And that was kind of the first family restaurant. And then when it closed, the younger generation started doing these flatbread at farmer's markets. And then when it came time for them to open their first restaurant or their first bakery, they actually secretly rented the same storefront that their dad and uncle were running this fried chicken restaurant out of for like almost 40 years.

45:51Didn't tell the family. There's a really cute video on their Instagram of it like being the surprise moment for everyone. What? I know. It's so cool. It's so sweet. It's really sweet. To go back to your family restaurant and open up a new, oh my gosh. And they didn't tell them, right, until they actually showed up there and then one of them had the keys. They're like, how do you have the keys? Which is really sweet. I think they're actually closed right now just because there's some plumbing or gas construction happening in the neighborhood. But I think they should be back open soon. And certainly if anyone that's listening is in D.C., I would definitely make my way there.

46:20Well, I love to hear about fresh flatbread being served. I think that I was talking to a chef about this in L.A. It feels like that's such a cool concept to do fresh flatbreads and all these different condiments and drizzles. And we'll definitely link to that video in the show notes because I can't wait to watch it. Yeah. I mean, on one hand, it's a very old concept, right? Of course. It's like a way that this has been eaten forever. But I think certainly here in New York to have that really distinguished like Saj grill like on the sidewalk and be able to eat it immediately. It's kind of like how a taco is best like right when it's being eaten.

46:51So, yeah, I think that's really cool. Great point there. I think that's really smart. Like, obviously, this is traditional cooking and it's been done for generations all around the world. I think it's just all about concepting for New Yorkers or D.C. and seeing it done in that way and having all that energy around it. Yeah. What's your next thing? My next thing is I was in L.A. and I went to Dayglo a lot. And I feel like they're tweaking the menu a bit, so I have to shout it out. Dayglo, it's a coffee storefront. They have one in Brooklyn as well, in Chicago. I think in Texas. I'm not sure. But what they do is they have a great cold coffee menu that I'm going to get into, but they also have a great retail wall.

47:28So they have coffees from all over. I think I spotted coffees from Coffee Collective, Little Wolf, Fried Hats, which are those tins. I love their branding. Moving Coffee and Kawa. And so I love going there for retail and definitely trying bags here and there. But, man, their cold drinks are so exciting right now. The Warhol is espresso. So it's like an aerated cream, citrus and vanilla. Probably my favorite is, well, I have two favorites, French Dispatch, Espresso, Roasted Chicory Cream, Anise and Pecan. And the Alyssa Lunch, it's matcha, strawberry and pistachio milk. So plant-based, great combination, not too sweet.

48:10I saw them sell like four of those when I was just sitting in the cafe. And, you know, Dayglo, I haven't been to the Brooklyn location, actually. But in L.A., it's definitely my favorite place for coffee right now and especially for cold drinks. It sounds really good. I feel like the strawberry matcha combo has been so big, certainly online and also in kinds of drink places over the past year. And when I was in L.A., I tried one for the first time. Honestly, quite good. Quite good with pistachio milk, too, which I think is a nice when you get a nice product. It's very rich. It's a rich drink and I love it.

48:43What's your last thing? My last thing is that I want to give a little scene report from the Fort Greene dog costume contest last weekend because the winner had a food related costume. Have you been to this before? I've heard of the Fort Greene. I've been to the East Village parade. Yeah, the Tompkins one is quite good. Yeah, that's the Tompkins one is the one I've been to. But tell me about it. The Fort Greene one is funny because everybody sits on the steps kind of on the north side of the park. So there's kind of stadium seating of people watching and judging the dogs. And they bring up, I think they had almost 100 dogs that had enrolled.

49:18And everyone cheers for them. And then the judges make a top 10. And then the crowd picks a top three. And then the judges pick a winner based on the cheers for the top three. It's all a cheer-based system. Very cool. And there are lots of really cool costumes. It's almost like people have started making sculptures that their dogs are attached to. because if it's a little dog, they're allowed to be in a cart or something like that. So there was a family that made literally the Coney Island Cyclone, and the dog was sitting in the little roller coaster car on the top of it. That was one of the top winners, for example.

49:53But the best one and the crowd favorite by far was a small little dog. The dog's named Gemma. She's a friend of one of my friend's dogs, actually. So we were very excited about this. Dressed up as a Babybel Cheese. Oh, no. Stop. That's ridiculous. Like an interactive costume. Like they walked the dog up and it looked fully like a baby bell kind of on top of this, almost like a snail shell on top of the dog. Then they took off the plastic wrapping. Then they unwrapped the wax like the same way you would eat a baby bell and left the cheese underneath it. And when they started unwrapping the wax, the crowd just lost it.

50:27Chaos. Shirley starts screaming so loud for this dog that people in front of us move their seats because they were worried about their dog getting scared about the crowd noise. Adorable. and the dog was happy, I would imagine. The dog was happy, I think. I mean, the dog seemed fine. The dog was actually supremely unbothered by the whole thing, which was really impressive. It was a sculpture with a dog underneath it, basically. Some dogs didn't even make it on the stage because they were scared about the crowd or they didn't like the outfit. Gemma did not care. She was very happy to be a cheese.

50:53And then what happened was they called up the top 10 and originally somehow she wasn't put by the judges into the top three. And the whole crowd starts chanting, baby bell baby bell and so they had to reconfigure everything and obviously this dog won i'll show you photos i love to see that that's amazing i love a good food theme costume at the dog parade there were a lot of hot dogs there were a lot of hamburgers etc but the baby bell cheese i think the fact that it was modular and interactive is really it won the baby bell baby i was like we We are in a society and our society is united. We are divided, but we are united for baby bell cheese.

51:34Do you like baby bells? Do you ever eat them? Honestly, no. And one of my friends that I was with had never had one before. She didn't grow up here and we were all leaving afterwards and she had to peel off and go to the bodega. Ooh, peel off. Peel off. Good job. And go to the bodega to buy one and try it for herself. Sleeper Hit is the black one, which is like, I think, sharp cheddar. Hard to find. It's actually not hard to find. It's actually quite easy to find. But that's my flavor of choice. Yeah. Yeah, Gemma the dog obviously was the classic red baby bell just for recognition. Classic red.

52:03But I like that there's more out there. Yeah. What's your last thing? My last thing is I have to give an Erewhon scene report because I was just in LA and why not? Can we have the like four green dog scene report, the Erewhon scene report? We're doing scene reports here. Yeah, okay. I mean, we're out in the world. You know, we're not just like in here talking to people. We're out in the world. That's what we do, right? What's up at Erewhon? So Erewhon's great. Like Air One's great. They're still selling$11 raw milk. And that's cool for the half gallon, maybe a gallon. Do they really sell raw milk?

52:35Oh, yes. Of course. Actually, I saw one for like maybe in the$18 range back in when I went to the Beverly Hills one earlier this year. But I was at the one off Sunset, which is probably my favorite right now. I think there's parking underground. It's pretty easy to get to, et cetera. But I found some new products and I wanted to shout them out because that's the beauty of going to Erewhon. I skipped the smoothie line, frankly, because that's just crazy. And it's too much to wait in line for a$22 smoothie. Bless you if that's your thing. A couple new products. Kelsey's Kitchen has plant-based gluten-free bars that I just love the texture.

53:16It really was a bar that – or a brownie bar, I guess you could call it, that speaks to me. I'm like a soft, you know, rich chocolatey guy. And I had the mint. So that was a new discovery. I hit up Midday Squares, of course. Lexington Bakes, of course. Florida Soul is always there. So I sampled those. Cove Soda is a brand new to me entry into the probiotic soda wars. It's pretty crazy. I'm kind of upset about the probiotic soda thing, to be honest, because they're encroaching into the kombucha section of the case now. I know they are, right? For real. And I have less kombucha to choose from. But go on.

53:57You're team booch for sure. And I think the bodega downstairs that we love is still very stocked with kombucha. No, they have more probiotic soda for sure. I'm currently drinking a kombucha from the bodega downstairs and I did not have that many options. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But maybe I think one or two are going to maybe pass in 2025. I feel like it's going to be a real rubber hits the road moment for probiotic sodas. A reminder that Alipop and Poppy are the big brands. But Cove is cool. It's sugar-free probiotics. So they're going for the sugar-free thing. Really great nostalgia with the cola flavor that I sampled.

54:35But I like their flavors. They have grapefruit, root beer, and grape, which were three of like maybe 10 flavors. and like the sugar-free thing with naturally sugar-free, I'm kind of into that. I like the branding a lot. I mean, I'm just going off of like one can, so I haven't really sampled their selection, but I kind of like it. That's cool. Even though it's not the section of the refrigerated beverage area that I gravitate towards, I like to hear about the updates. I feel like in general, just going to Erewhon and standing in front of all of the drinks is always such a, it's both grounding and also like makes me disassociate at the same time.

55:09I love that. You know? It definitely is not your everyday bodega or everyday grocery store. It definitely has a little bit of a dissociation. I follow you on that thread. That's good. Yeah, but it's kind of nice, you know. I feel like when I go to the grocery store, it's because I have things I need to buy from my home. And when I'm in L.A. and I'm at Erewhon, I'm not grocery shopping in that same kind of way. So it kind of suits the way that I'm existing, that I can be kind of floating around and wafting over to look at a vegan cinnamon roll and then getting a drink or something. Yeah, good point.

55:40I use it as research just for the show, just to see what's on the shelves. And I always find new products. I saw some new gluten-free pastas. I can't remember the name, but I was like, wow, we have more room for gluten-free pasta, I guess, in our world. Last product I sampled was Zob's Hot Sauce. The dadle pepper is what they're making with, which I think is a cool pepper. It's sweet and low heat. And shouts to Miles Soberoff, who's the founder. And I actually was having a quick catch-up with my buddy Dan Holtzman at Danny Boy's in Westwood. And there he was. He recognized me from the show. I'd never met the guy.

56:17And, hey, shouts to you, Miles. Thanks for listening to the show. And I went and bought your pepper sauce, and I think it's terrific. So two SKUs, original and St. Augustine style, which I didn't. I got the original. But a new hot sauce for my pantry. Can I ask what kind of food you think would pair best with this hot sauce? You know, that is a personal question, I feel. Like hot sauce, I'm usually not. Like I'm definitely a Valentina guy. That's like the one that's my standard. Of course, Frank's Red Hot is always there as well. Or Crystal. um i personally and don't laugh when i have cottage cheese around i always put hot sauce on cottage cheese what does that make you does that make you feel okay no i'm into that it sounds good um i don't love putting it into cooking personally um unless it's like uh like obviously hot wings or something like that but like just throwing it if you're like doing like a mushy uh vegetable stir fry um some people in my household uh context clues can can figure out who that is likes to just throw a lot of hot sauce into the stir fry right away and i'm like nah i like seasoning on my own um i really like for when i'm making like chili or lentil soup or something tabasco or more of like a vinegar based hot sauce i think really rounds it out in a cool way that's a great call i think putting the vinegar based into chili when you're cooking it makes sense i just love i do you like sour cream in your chili yeah i mean on the bowl for serving not in the actual pot.

57:47Yeah, no, definitely. And I just like, I think about sour cream and always like dousing it with hot sauce. For me, instead of it just being straight sour cream, that's like my chili go-to with definitely hard cheddar or sharp cheddar. You're like making me think of my hot sauce journey. I mean, definitely on any kind of cheese tortilla, I always put a bit of hot sauce. What else do you put it on? Everything. We could just like name it like 20 minutes. I really, I have a lot of hot sauce. I'm someone who would carry, actually, I have had little mini Tabasco bottles that I carry around from time to time, which is fun.

58:21But I'm excited to try this new one. Yeah, it's a good one. Thanks for sharing your three things. You too.

58:30This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.