494: Grandma Cooking Wisdom with League of Kitchens

24:43You know, it's it's kind of this to me, this false confidence in a knowledge that most people don't have like an instinct. You know, and again, if you're like an accomplished restaurant chef, you probably can fudge it and just make it work. But as a home cook, especially cooking a cuisine that's unfamiliar, I think there is a benefit to having a lot of detail. Yeah. And I think some of those details, like how to properly wash rice, for example, like those are the things that set apart grandma cooking because they've been doing it for so long that like they don't even necessarily think to say it.

25:15Right, exactly. And so that was a lot of my role, too, putting myself in that not knowing beginner's mind home cook who's never cooked Indonesian food before and just asking those, quote unquote, dumb questions, you know, where sometimes they'd be like, well, you just do it like this. I'd be like, OK, but why? Or like, do you ever do the, you know, kind of I think for them, too, and made the process of writing these recipes with us made them think about what they do in a new way or even to become aware of it. Like, oh, yeah, I guess I do that for that reason. Or like, I guess my mom used to do it for that reason.

25:48But I didn't really know. Yeah, definitely. I'm curious about what the photo shoot process was like. Also, it seems that you were getting very like personal with everybody and like going into their homes even. Yes. So the photo shoot experience is actually very unique. So as you know, most cookbooks, the way they do the photos, they shoot them in a studio and a stylist will cook all the food and the props will be rented. That's very typical. So I knew that I wanted the photos to really express our instructors, their families, their homes, their food. So what we did is we actually did 14 different shoots in 14 different locations in each instructor's home across New York City.

26:27And the instructors cooked the food themselves. And we used their dishes, cutlery, table, textiles, everything to style the photos. And we had an amazing team. And we worked with Kristen Teague, our photographer, and Monica Perini, who was our stylist, who were really excited about this process because I definitely talked to photographers who were like, I can't do that. It's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And also that because we at each shoot, not only were we doing beautiful shots of the food, we also had them invite their friends and family. And we did lots of photos of the table and eating with their families.

27:02So we needed a photographer who was happy to do both, which Kristen is. Yeah. Which was amazing. And there's portraits, also really beautiful ones of all of the recipe developers. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So like their portraits, their families. And I felt like that was so important, too, because another aspect to what we do is really sharing the cultural context of food and recipes. So each recipe starts with a quote from the instructor, which I love so that we have their voices. And in the head notes, we really focused on sharing, like, when is this food eaten? What are the customs and traditions around it?

27:34also, what are the accompanying foods eaten with this dish? Because I feel like that's something that's often left out of cookbooks and even at restaurants, unless you know to order certain dishes together, you may not, but like that combo is the dish. Like for instance, like our Lebanese instructor's fool, which is this fava bean kind of mash dish. She always says it's very important to serve it with a full plate of extras. And this is how you judge whether someone's a good cook or host or not. So that's like cut up peppers, onion, mint, parsley, radishes, all arrayed beautifully, scallions. And you take a bite of the full, which is like a bean dish, so it's kind of pasty, like all beans.

28:20And then you take a bite of one of these fresh vegetables, and that's the dish. Like if you only eat the beans with pita, That's like, you know, 60 percent of the experience. But so often, you know, if someone just finds a recipe for full and they make it, they don't mention that plate of extras. It's really like an extension of the recipe. Yeah, I think that is such a great detail on what you gain from having people who are really like cultural torchbearers sharing these recipes. I know certainly I've made things before that I haven't thought about to pair them with because even just making something new is like that's my cooking for the day.

28:56Right. But so often. like the accompaniment, it's something simple like that. It's interesting. Oftentimes it's like an onion or fresh vegetable because it kind of cuts and balances the other flavors. But even just, you know, a big part of what we do in each recipe is we also, the way we chose the recipes in the book, we're making sure that recipes that went well together as a meal were in the book. Because one thing I also love sharing is about sort of classic meals, like fish and chips of every culture. You know, like there's certain things that are always served together. So, you know, for instance, like our Mexican instructor shares her recipe for picadillo, like ground beef and potato dish.

29:38And she always serves it with Mexican tomato rice, black beans, sliced avocado, and fresh cheeses like queso fresco. And then she likes to also put sliced bananas on the rice, which her babysitter used to do when she was growing up, which I love because it cuts the spiciness. But something about having that full plate of all those things together, it just enhances the pleasure of each individual item. Yeah, I love that. And I actually make picadillo at home like quite often as a comfort food in the winter, but I've never done it with rice and bananas like that. So my eyes just got so wide. Totally, totally.

30:20And again, a detail like that, like adding sliced bananas, It's not hard. You just have to know to do it. Right. Someone has to tell you. Yeah, exactly. And so many things like that we tried to capture in the book. And even, you know, some of the recipes, for instance, like our Afghan instructor shares this turmeric egg recipe. It's the recipe that's the easiest one in the book. I make it multiple times a week. My kids love it. Probably most people listening have all the ingredients at home. Basically, what you do is you take ghee, you slice up some garlic, fry the garlic and the ghee, you add a pinch of turmeric.

30:52and then you fry an egg over easy in it. And it's delicious. It's fast. You know, you could use olive oil or butter if you don't have ghee. It's so few ingredients. And you would never think to do that unless you had had it, right? And that's an example of a dish too where Nowita, when we talked about it, she's like, that's not even a recipe. Like, why would you put that in a cookbook, right? It's like I'm always interested in those kinds of recipes because unless you grew up in an Afghan family, you wouldn't know about that egg. But it's something that's so easy, fun, delicious, pleasurable. And like, I love sharing that, you know, because that's something anybody can do.

31:30And it's delicious. I love hearing about this as a recipe that you make at home, because I would imagine that the just variety and deliciousness of food coming out of your home must be so high. And it's been a decade that, you know, this has been a part of your life. How has your home cooking evolved in this past 10 years? Yeah, well, it's interesting. So when I launched the company, I was actually pregnant with my older daughter. I have two kids, two daughters who are 10 and 7. So in a way, my older daughter, Sylvie, was like born at the same time as the League of Kitchens. They're twins. So I have a 7-year-old and a 10-year-old.

32:04Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 10-year-old. Yes, exactly. League of Kitchens and my 10-year-old are twins. Yes. Exactly. It's her other sister. And so my kids have grown up in the League of Kitchens, which is so cool because the instructors have known them both since they were babies. and they have this community of aunties from all over the world who love them. And, you know, all through their childhoods, I've either been cooking foods at home or bringing home foods from events or the instructor's homes for them that they've grown up with. So meaning like when you become a parent, you often start cooking a lot more at home because there's just greater necessity.

32:38So it is interesting that I feel like becoming a parent coincided with starting League of Kitchens. So I just did a lot more home cooking than I did before that. And I've become a lot better. I mean, for me, it's been a dream of just like my personal education, you know, in the kitchens of these incredible women learning so, so much. Yeah, I would imagine it's probably a nice side effect of having the business and the baby at the same time is there is this like bench of aunties that want to love these kids and spend time with them as well. And like our Indian instructor made me these incredible like Indian lactation bars after I had both kids, which are so great.

33:21And also even just, you know, some of the things we talk about in the book are home remedies from the kitchen. actually. I did interviews with each instructor and I love hearing the home remedies from the kitchen from each culture. That's so fun. And I've learned a lot about that. Yeah. Are there any home remedies that you've picked up and now do at home? Yeah. Well, also we talk about beauty tips from the kitchen too, which is also fun. So good. Well, one thing that's super simple I learned from our Indian instructor, Yamini, and she has a lot of like Ayurvedic home remedies is if you have a cold, just to take a little turmeric and some black pepper and mix it with some honey and just suck on that.

34:04And it's so soothing and just like great for when you have a cold. I love that. I feel like my bench of cold remedies, I'm always trying to grow. I'm normally like boiling ginger and turmeric and black pepper and tea like that. Yes. Well, our Indonesian instructor, her quote is like, Like every Indonesian home remedy is a combination of turmeric and ginger, basically. It's a good place to be, I guess. Yes, totally, totally. So I can't help but ask, like the whole idea for originally starting League of Kitchens was that you wanted to find a Korean grandma to learn to cook from. Did you ever find her?

34:38Is she still out there? So this is it's sort of ironic, right? One of our founding instructors was a wonderful Korean woman, but she was actually at that time already in her late 70s. And I think she retired after about three years because it just sort of got too much for her to like do the hosting and the cooking and the cleaning up and all that stuff. So we are looking for a Korean instructor. In fact, I'm always looking to hire new people. So anyone listening, if they have any candidates, we need people who live in New York City. Yeah. What else does your dream candidate have? We're putting out a call in the air right now.

35:12Yes, totally. So excellent home cook, using traditional techniques and methods, warm, charismatic, loves hosting, loves cooking for people, comfortable, teaching in English, though their English doesn't have to be, you know, perfect by any means. Like when our Lebanese instructor Jeanette started, she was always like, Lisa, my English is so bad. And I'd be like, no, it's fine. And you know what makes your English much better? Teaching four and a half hour classes to groups of Americans in English. With like a captive audience who is already obsessed with you and wants to eat your food and very patient.

35:47Exactly. Exactly. So it's kind of like a great way to improve your English. But anyway, comfortable teaching in English. And they live in New York City and they're comfortable hosting groups of American strangers in their homes. So Korean is like one kind of dream on the list. Are there any other cuisines or cultures that you're especially looking for right now? Yes. I mean, there's so many. um again we had a trinidadian instructor she retired i'd love like trinidadian or west indian instructor i'd love to find a chinese instructor um an instructor i'd love to find like a brazilian instructor a peruvian instructor a moroccan instructor uh i mean i could go on and on yeah i mean i'm picturing like this going out across new york city from where we are in midtown manhattan call like immigrant grandmas please come.

36:37Yeah, they're all of these like aunties with like the carts going down the street that are stopping right now all of their groceries. They're like, I sent something. I'm being called. Well, I have a feeling we will probably hear from folks after this episode airs and I will be sure to send all of the emails. Well, the other thing I'll say too is not everyone has to technically be your mom or grandma. Like our Afghan instructor, our Mexican instructor, when I hired them, they were in their 30s, but they cooked like grandmas. And what I mean by that is, for instance, like our Afghan instructor, when she got married, she lived in a large household of 35 people and she cooked at least one meal a day for 35 to 45 people every day for 40 years.

37:19So for 10 years. Wow. So like that comfort and ease and confidence and depth of knowledge. Like so actually we have merch and one of our slogans is cook like a grandma because it's sort of I would say it's sort of like a state of mind. It's a kind of an attitude is you don't have to be old. You don't have to have children or grandchildren, you know. Yeah, I think one of the things I always say about getting older is that I'm really looking forward to getting older because my cooking is just going to become better and better because it's more years of practice under the belt. So I really aspire to cook like a grandma.

37:53I think I have to get this merch maybe. I would love to send you some. But I think another thing, you know, one of the other questions we ask in our interviews in the book is what do you think is the secret to becoming a great cook? And I think one thing that everyone says that I agree with is you have to love to eat. Because you have to know what tastes good, you know, so that you can make your food taste good. So I think that's a big part of it. And then just the practice, right? I mean, I think that's the thing, too, becoming a parent, just having to cook every day in a way that I didn't before.

38:27Just that has made me such a better cook. Yeah, definitely. I want to play a little rapid fire to close. But before we do, we talked about this idea of, like, cooking with love a little bit before. And I feel like when you see that on like the back of like a package of like processed cookies, like it's just kind of it's so cheesy. But I do think there's something legitimate behind that. And I'm curious if you've thought about like what cooking with love actually looks like in practice. Yes, totally. And actually, that's our other merch tagline. Cook with love and cook like a grandma. So, yes. So I know it sounds like a cliche.

39:03We've all heard a million times. What does it mean? But as I said, all of our instructors say it and believe it. So I've actually thought a lot about what I think this means. So to me, it's cooking with intention and attention. And it's thinking about the person you're cooking for that you love. And when you love someone, you want to make them something they'll enjoy and that will make them happy. And that makes you put extra effort and extra attention and you shape it to their taste. And it's just, again, it's like you pay more attention and you're more intentional in the way you're cooking and the decisions you make and the way you plan your menu and how you need it.

39:41And that's and they're bringing that like passion, that desire to make something delicious, to share it, to express your love that way, to show care. And I think when you put that care into cooking, it's going to taste better. And that to me is what it means to cook with love. couldn't have said it any better oh thank you okay now i'm gonna do a little rapid fire to close and i'm gonna make you play favorites so i'm sorry i know it's hard okay uh your favorite style of cuisine to cook right now it's funny i've actually been cooking hungarian jewish food from jeremy solomon's recent cookbook because as i mentioned part of my heritage is hungarian jewish so it's funny last night i made chicken paprikash i love that and i think it's a good time of year like uh jewish holidays like yeah cozy fall all of that actually we just hosted a break fast party for yom kippur and i also made his white fish salad and his cured salmon which were both great so those are like break fast classics i love it um your favorite cookbook that's not the league of kitchens cookbook yes so i actually have close to a thousand cookbooks i'm a very passionate collector yeah so i kind of feel like the fact it took 10 years to write this cookbook i also read and cooked from so many cookbooks.

40:54It was like doing a PhD in cookbooks and how they work. So this is hard. Okay. For reading and uniqueness, I will say A Tale of Twelve Kitchens, which is written by a British graphic designer, Jake Tilson. It's incredible. It's like collage, biography. That's super unique. I also love Nigella Lawson's first cookbook. how to eat it's like to me the epitome of the perfect cookbook chat um i love a lot of british cookbooks like rachel roddy's um my roman kitchen i love that cookbook i'd say from for actually cooking from i love bottom of the pot by naz daravian about iranian cooking like every recipe i've cooked from that has turned out great i love korean home cooking by sohee kim which is also co-written by rachel like that's my go-to korean cookbook i really feel like that cookbook when i cook from it it tastes close to my grandmother's cooking also my korea by huni kim is my other favorite korean cookbook his more chefy but i like incorporating some of his chefy touches also japanese farm food i love because again it's very by nancy singleton hashishu is very like home cooked japanese food which is so different from restaurant food also fuchsia dunlop's simple Chinese cooking.

42:16Again, like really home cooked Asian food. And also I love Mina Stone's cookbooks. She's a friend of mine. And I love that it's like Greek grandma cooking with a little bit of this like cool edge. Yeah. OK. I love how I asked you for one and you said 15. But if you have a thousand, I think that's pretty good. How do you organize all of the cookbooks? Oh, my God. They're just everywhere in our apartment. That makes me feel better. If you were going to say alphabetized, No, no, they're not organized. They're stacked. They're overflowing. Actually, I saw this really funny sign that said it's not hoarding if it's books.

42:51And I was like, I kind of, that speaks to me. OK, your favorite New York City restaurant. OK, again, this is an impossible question. I love going out to eat breakfast because, again, when you have kids, it's harder to go out to eat dinner. So my three favorite breakfast places in New York right now, one is Devel, which is a Japanese cafe in the Lower East Side. It's like kind of Japanese Western blend. They have amazing uni, spaghetti and these toasts. The beautiful like mosaic toast. Yes, yes. Like their black sesame toast I love. Also, Saravana Bhavan, which is a South Indian chain that's on 26th and Lex.

43:31I used to live there when I moved to New York in 2004 in that neighborhood. and they do an amazing South Indian breakfast, which is super fun on the weekdays because it's all like Indian tourists visiting New York who need Indian food for breakfast. And then I love Golden Diner, their Thai Cobb salad. I just am obsessed with. Those are all such great restaurants. I love this. I'm going to show up for breakfast. Yes. Your favorite New York City bakery? Okay, again, can't choose one. But for pastries, Der Pioneer, which is in my neighborhood in Kensington, I love. I have a weekly breakfast date with my husband there.

44:03amazing like german austrian pastries and then for bread runner and stone their buguit baguette i love and uh biencui their miche and also their croissants and i mean anything from any of those your go-to bodega snack i would say bacon egg and cheese on a roll with ketchup and hot sauce nice um a piece of like kitchen wisdom or a kitchen hack that you learned from one of the instructors that you think more people should know about? Yeah. So simple thing that many of our instructors do is they grate their garlic on a microplane or in a grater for their recipes. And sometimes you need to chop it or slice it for how a recipe is supposed to turn out.

44:44But I just love that because it's fast and it often helps the garlic just sort of spread into the food. A now closed restaurant that you wish you could bring back from the dead. Yes. Tiffinwala, which is a South Indian restaurant on like 28th Street and Lex that was there when I lived in that neighborhood in the like mid 2000s. They had an incredible five dollar South Indian lunch buffet. Buffet? Yeah, it was a buffet. Wow. Yeah, that was so fresh and always had like changing dishes. It was a dream. Wow. OK. Yeah. Finally, a fictional food scene like from a book or a movie that you wish you could eat in real life.

45:23Yes. Yes. So, oh, my God, I'm mixing up the name. It's the Ang Lee movie from the 90s. It's like Eat. Oh, Eat, Drink, Man Woman. I was like, not Eat, Pray, Love. That's the other. No, Eat, Drink, Man Woman. Actually, so I saw that movie when I was like 13. And the father is a chef who makes this incredible home cooked Chinese food for his three daughters. And actually, I think that planted a seed that kind of one branch of it grew into the League of Kitchens because it created, I think, in my mind, this fantasy of how incredible home-cooked food could be that was different from a restaurant, that you could just have these feasts.

46:05And yes, I would want to eat in that movie. Me too. And I think even though there's not a Chinese instructor in this book, I think maybe the soul of that lives on. Totally, totally. I mean, that was my dream. And I feel like that's the League of Kitchens. When you go to any of these instructors' homes and all of our workshops start with a homemade meal, it's like that. It's amazing. Well, it's been so fun talking with you. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you. This is so fun.

46:43And to close this episode, we hear from Chef Rogelio Garcia to tell us about his new book, Convivi, Modern Mexican Cuisine in California's Wine Country. Hi, I am Chef Rogelio Garcia. I am located in Calistoga in the Napa Valley. I'm inside the Four Seasons at Mission to Start Restaurant Oro. My cookbook is Convivir, Modern Mexican Cuisine in California's Wine Country. So my book is unique because it's a take on Mexican cuisine in the Napa Valley. I grew up here. I made a lot of connections. Napa supported me throughout my career and be able to take it from a lens of a chef that grew up in Northern California, but the roots are Mexican.

47:33It's those twists where I used local seasonality, but also respecting the traditions of Mexico. the biggest inspiration of writing the book was that growing up in Napa I think that you know there was a lot of times that I kind of felt lost you know most of the restaurants were cooking out of Europe you know France Spain there was a little to no representation of my roots and so for the last 10 years I've been researching Mexico talking to historians reading books I talked to my mother. She had a lot of amazing stories growing up in Mexico City. How, you know, the culture is, the holidays. And I think most of the point is the people, how they're willing to give so much where they don't have a lot themselves.

48:23And so that inspiration kind of kept building up. In the last four years, I've dedicated myself to writing Convivir. The team did such an amazing job. Definitely went through a lot of trials and tribulations with them. A lot of learning, a lot of rejection as we were trying to gear up for the book. But seeing it for the first time and seeing it at a bookstore for the first time has been such a phenomenal milestone in my career. The first time I got to see the book was super exciting. When I got the call, I want to say it was the month of June of this year, from the publishers and said, I got the first copy.

49:05I literally dropped everything and drove about an hour to get the first copy. I walk in the room. They were clapping. You know, they were giving me hugs and just, you know, just super, super proud. But actually holding it and seeing it come as it was, I never thought that I would have something or even create something that will live way after I was gone. And so, you know, I have two boys, right? So they're going to be here after I'm gone. But to have a book, it's quite the feeling. Recipes that I would love people to kind of take a look at, I think one that I grew up with is the spinach tortitas.

49:54That's something that my mother cooked for me as a kid. And I think till today, I love spinach. They're these almost fritters, if you will. Eggs, flour, blanched spinach, kind of chopped. There's a little bit of cheese and you just lightly fry them in a pan. Crazy good, exceptional. Brings me back to my childhood days and it's definitely a homage to my mother. The other recipe I would say, one of my favorites, maybe not on the healthier side, it's chicken fried tacos. Chicken is fried, obviously. It's got this beautiful tortilla that's handmade. And when you bite into it, you get this bright avocado tomatillo sauce.

50:34What best thing to put together, which is tacos and fried chicken.

50:46This is Taste is hosted by Matt Rodbard and me, Eliza Abarbanel. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things happening.