500: Christina Tosi Ranks Those Very Special Reese's

26:47Yes. So my favorite thing during the pandemic was to demystify, right? We were in this weird, like, I don't have this, but I do have that. We were more on the what I don't have as opposed to what I do have. And this is one of my favorite things that I learned to think about when I was a pastry cook at WD-50 for Wiley Dufresne. Great Lower East Side restaurant that closed. And it was really thinking about every ingredient and what that ingredient holds. And so when it's a grocery store ingredient, it's thinking about like, great, what's in it? One of my favorite things to do, people like went through a point where they couldn't get sugar.

27:24And I was like, OK, well, let's talk about what you have in your pantry, right? Like, do you have maple syrup? That is sugar. You can substitute it. There was a point where I was like, do you have ice cream? I know you have we're locked indoors. I know you have ice cream. Guess what? Melt it down. What is it? It's milk. It's eggs. It's sugar. So now when we make a recipe, you don't need as many eggs. You don't need as many milk and you have the sugar. Thinking about that. So do the same to mayonnaise, which feels weird because we think about it only as a condiment. But mayonnaise is eggs. It's oil.

27:53Maybe it's a little bit of acid, sometimes some sugar, some salt. Guess what? Those are all things you need in a cake recipe. and it's already emulsified so you don't have to worry about your batter separating and in chocolate cake especially because you're adding cocoa powder which tends to dry out the cake batter the mayonnaise allows you to get more moisture in without worrying about separation so it's like the most high level and low brow way of thinking because it's emulsified though like the liquid is like stuck in there exactly you can get more liquid in to combat the dryness of cocoa powder You want the flavor of cocoa powder, but you don't want to deal with the sort of dry crumbliness of it.

28:30The emulsification of the fat, the eggs, the acid is already there. So you can get away with adding more in without your batter going. You also just I think like one out of 10 people hate mayonnaise and nine out of 10 don't. And there's like a like a draw when you're baking with mayonnaise that you're just like selling it pretty hard. I think you just have to lean into the things. It's not stunty. It's just true. You don't have to bake with mayonnaise. You don't have to make a chocolate cake with mayonnaise. But I'll tell you what, if you put that mayonnaise in your chocolate cake and no one tells you about it or you tell no one about it and then everyone wants to applaud you, you got to give credit where credit is too.

29:08So anyways. Let me ask you about just inspiration. How do you like develop your recipes and how are you tracking inspiration through the world? I know some chefs like to go on IG and see what's happening in the world of pastry. Some like to read old books. What is your style? That's such a great question. I often use my like belly as my guide. So just like, what am I hungry for? Like this whole muffin obsession coincides with sort of this relative life change of like slowing down and, and, and. That's usually one way in, one like in road. Another in road is I like to make people happy with food, usually dessert.

29:50and so just asking them like hey matt like it's your 500th episode like what flavors do you like what are you into what's your favorite dessert i'd like to do a little bit like of um like an armchair expert and interrogation and then i use that as my curiosity jumping off point and then um my third is i like to go to thrift stores and yard sales and look at other people's cookbook collections. I'm always so curious about so many things on like the milk bar menu that are classics are things that spurred from something that came before. I love the newness of the dessert that people are putting out into the world.

30:30And I find that I do my best work when I both can see that and cheer them on and then put on my own blinders and find my own like inroads of inspiration. But I'd say those are my top three. Well, since you asked hypothetically, I'm just going to say this canned peaches but something very unexpected so like not a cake but using canned peaches which you know we can like say canned peaches are not as good as fresh peaches but i think that the concentration in the syrup of a canned peach you're you're vibing with canned peaches i'm vibing with the sparkle in your eye when you said canned peaches i was like oh he's not messing around this isn't like a chopped episode this is matt is really we've hit a chord y 'all okay canned peaches I'm on it yeah yeah okay well we'll check back with you on that one I feel maybe at the end of the show you'll have something pop in your head I'm into it or you're just like I'm no I'm a little like I was gonna go gooey butter cake but then you said not cake butter cake is a bar but then I was like is it tart to 10 I I'm I'm I'm scrapping I'm only one degree right now like my creativity works in like degrees down into the depths and I'm already in tart to tan mode of like something in that but then it's like oh so buttery works brown buttery works the flakiness but i would go probably three or four more degrees deeper before i decided whether the tart to tan with peaches is a good idea thank you for indulging me i never asked you if you even like canned peaches oh i think you like canned peaches okay fair and that's all that matters i mean i grew up in like with ohio midwestern sensibility so everything's canned and jarred to survive the times when you're not harvard fruit cocktail baby yeah okay so sprite cake and ohio summers that is like the pairing that speaks to me it speaks to some of our audience and i love that you're incorporating sprite into baking and to be clear there this is like two examples i said with bugles and sprite this is not your ethic there's like full cloth like classic pastry in here too but i just these jumped up to me yeah these are like the moments of like They're the breadcrumbs of my taste buds as a kid.

32:33My grandma always baked. And so we didn't ever buy dessert at the grocery store. But her grocery store's name was Bob and Carl's. And they had a 7-Up cake that was at the front, you know, in the produce section. And I would always eye it. And I remember her just like tugging my arm like, let's go, let's go. And eyeing it and thinking, you can put soda in a cake? or in Ohio, it's soda pop. Soda pop. Or pop. Pop. Yeah. Pop. Pop. In a cake. Seven Up no longer exists that I could find, but it was the soda that my grandma drank. And it really is my love letter to that, like lusting after this cake grocery store memory.

33:15And just the death defying act of like, you can have, you can drink soda and eat cake. Like for me, it was like, girl, you got to choose one. You don't get both. and the idea that your cake could be flavored soda pop for me still remains a magical thing. So I spent months putting together, like trying to figure out how do you get as much Sprite flavor and effervescence into this really like dense buttery pound cake so that it can still be a gorgeous slice, but also celebrate the spirit of soda pop. So cool that you can think about childhood and you think about this memory of buying a Sprite cake, but then take your pastry chef skills and make it work for your wide audience.

33:58Like connecting those dots, not easy. I respect it. Well, just true. I respect the hell out of it. Just true, where you're just like, it was true for me. Yeah. So I don't know. But I'll also teach you how to make a mackerel. So we're good, right? All right, we'll talk about a few more recipes. I just want to zoom out and talk about the cover. You worked with Chip Kidd on this cover. That's like, wow. And also like Chip Kidd is like kind of the greatest name for a pastry cookbook cover designer it really is and it's double d for those that don't know double d yeah what's that like working with chip kid i just had to get a little nerdy about that one you know it's funny i tried to play it cool and then i couldn't resist and then i nerded out and he got really shy and humble which i so appreciate but his brilliance for me and working with him was he reminded me who we are and where we came from and what made who we are so special.

34:52And it was very much this, like, a la minute in the moment from scratch. How do we make something visual with the simple ingredients that we already have lying on hand? And he saw a post once during Bait Club where I would just trace things in flour or sugar or rainbow sprinkles. We just use ingredients to spell something out to, like, catch people's attention in their scroll. And he was like, that's the cover. Like, that's it. It's nothing else. It tells you everything that you need to know, but in a very non-traditional cookbook cover land. So it's basically just my finger tracing out the words Bake Club.

35:30It's really, really, and it's got a little bit of texture. It feels like you can trace along because, yeah, there's a little spot gloss in there. A little spot gloss. I love that. No, it's a beautiful cover. And I just had to, you know, work with a legend like that. What is Chip like to dessert-wise? Do you have a sense? Well, he's coming. I mean, he likes classics and icons. I think he's also maybe a little bit of a risk taker, but I'm going to feed him dessert tomorrow night in celebration. So I'll let you know. Maybe he's a canned peach guy, too. He might be a canned. I'm going to throw it out there.

36:01You're still thinking about it. I'm into this. Tell me about the peanut butter cup slicer that you were commissioning somebody to make or you were thinking you were in like R &D mode. Oh, I got it made. I got it made for Will for Christmas a few years ago. I actually think the person is in Michigan. Oh, yeah? I'd have to look it up. Big peanut butter cup country there. Big peanut butter cup energy. We have a love for all things Reese's peanut butter cups, like so much so that there's a PB cup recipe in the cookbook. There sure is. Because at some point you have to figure out how to make them for yourself too.

36:35It's terrific. And it's a little bit of like what do you get your partner to make them, to like really commemorate your, it's not an inside joke, like the insider truth of things. And you're very over about your love. Yeah. To get the like one of one of it in a really hilarious way. Cause by the way, when you both love peanut butter cups, I'm just going to be honest. I will just take the last one. Cause I'm like, you're too polite to not give it to me. Like you were raised, you know what I mean? Like you were raised a certain way. So I'm always going to eat it. But the peanut butter cup slicer allows for all the things to be true, but it's this cute little pedestal that fits one peanut butter cup and it's a wire cutter and you it up and it wheels it up and the wire cuts through it and it slices and then it wheels it down.

37:18I mean, I have photos of my sister and brother-in-law and husband where we do a whole, we got into an argument one Thanksgiving that Will was like, I can tell the freshness of a peanut butter cup. And I was like, I can too. And everyone was like, I can. And so we were like, okay, let's do a blind taste test. And we went out to as many different 7-Elevens and supermarkets and we got Reese's Peanut Butter Cups with all different Best Buy dates on them and did a blind taste test. One of the greatest activities to partake in over the holidays. Did you find that there was a characteristic of a fresh, like a factory to table?

37:51There is, you can, we used to go, well, we had been to Hershey Park two or three times as a kid and I was like, nothing tastes better than a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup right off the line. At the park. Whether that was actual, do they make them at Hershey Park? Who knows? But that was definitely the emotion they sold me as a kid and I was hooked. There is. But also depends on like then let's be dorks about food. You know, like from a distribution standpoint, how much temperature degradation happened. Did it go into hot and cold spaces, et cetera, et cetera. But we were pretty good. I'd say we got like a solid B plus.

38:30But then, you know, you're kind of in your head. I always think there's a little bit. When you open up a fresh one, there's like a tiny coating of moisture. Yes. There's like a little – and you can like – if you swipe your finger across it, you get a little bit of residue. If it's too dry, to me, that's a stale one. When they're really close to being bye-bye, they're dry in the center for sure. You can tell about that. You also sometimes get like a little spotting of like fat at the bottom of that like little U-board, like coated U-board, which is a telltale sign. But like the reality, Matt, is that I love peanut butter cups, but I usually eat around the ruffled edge because I'm actually like a holiday Reese's person because I don't even need the crinkle outer crack.

39:19I'm here for the soft. I'm here for maximum peanut butter and the soft center. You led to my next question. Christina, we got to talk about novelties and seasonals. Seasonals and novelties. Yes. What's the top three for you right now? I know it changes. Oh, my shapes? Yeah. I'm a tree gal. But during Super Bowl season, there's something about the football where I am pretty certain that you have the most amount of peanut butter. I think I'm with you with the football. The bats. Like we're just coming out of Halloween. They're fine. Listen, I'm not going to say I didn't eat all of my children's version.

39:51Like we literally we have a meeting before we go out trick or treating. All of the Reese's come back to the parents. You know what I mean? And they don't actually like the peanut butter. So it's perfect. Some of the kids don't like it. But I won't I mean, I won't even go to bed. I can't sleep through October 31st until all the novelties are eaten. But I so my favorite is actually the football. But tree season is coming up and a lot of people give trees and I'm getting pumpkin trees are in the fall. I like the Easter. Oh, tell me the egg. The egg, the yellow foil. I have to tell you this story.

40:23You know, during the pandemic. They're probably the same exact shape. They're basically the footballs. The footballs. Yeah. No, no. They're definitely very similar to the footballs. So emotional. They were like, maybe the footballs can be the eggs. The eggs can be the footballs. Pandemic happens. It's March 2020. It's April 2020. And, you know, people aren't really shopping. So clearly a lot of the CVSs in Brooklyn had stocked up on their novelties in February. and so April rolls around and Easter rolls around and people haven't been going into the stores so I find myself at a Rite Aid on Court Street and I'm looking at a wall of Easter novelties.

41:01These are usually in Brooklyn prices are higher they're usually around$1.79 a piece which is very high In some states, maybe$1.25,$1.40. I look at a special little sign that has been kind of handwritten. Ten cents. I literally was like, I'm so excited for you right now. Ten cents. An A. What? So, Christina, I went and bought...

41:41went home and then they were not there a week later just this is i literally this is my know thyself where i'm like girl you cannot you can go to the store every day but you cannot bring home five dollars worth but when the but when they go on sale like post-holiday in my family there's a text thread and it like the bat signal goes out go go swarm swarm i know it is no we watch Oh, I love it. Ten cents. Ten cents is the lowest I will ever see. It was at the right end on court. I think that they clearly just had to move. Yeah, they're PO. They over-forecasted. Well, they didn't know about this world event.

42:20What about Puppy Chow? You call it Puppy Chow. It's called Money Buddies in certain parts of the state, but you call it Puppy Chow. Tell me about why this is so important in your book. It was called Puppy Chow when I grew up. It's one of my favorite when I'm spending time. Well, I guess maybe I'm just hungry. Like a little bit. I call it weeknights, W-E-A-K nights, where you're just like, I need something. I need a quick, I'm hungry. I'm not trying to fuss. But also it's one of my favorite things to make with my nieces or with any kid that's like, can we make something together? That's like one of the joys of my profession is I get that question.

42:54It's one of my favorite things to make because it holds infinite possibility in flavor story and construction. The idea, like it's the ultimate Midwest thing too, right? Completely. Like melt down some version of chocolate chips and fat. It can be a peanut butter, but it can also be a nut butter or really just butter butter. And it could be chocolate. It could be peanut butter. It could be butterscotch. It could be white. Like I could go on, right? So just the variation there. Then put it in a Ziploc pack with some cereal. And of course, Chex is like the icon for it. But it could be any cereal.

43:27It could be any combination of cereal. And then zip it up. Zip. And then shake it around. Which is the fun bit. And then add confectioner's sugar. But for me, I see that as an invitation where it's like it's some confectioner's sugar, but you can add spice to it and you can add salt and add sprinkle and you can do anything that can be pulverized down into confectioner's sugar like state can be subbed in or added to confectioner's sugar. And then shake it some more and then keep it in your fridge or freezer and eat it in perpetuity. The like unzipping of the Ziploc bag, the re-zipping, if you keep it like really cold, the crunch that you get.

44:04I'm a texture hound. The crunch that you get going from like soft powdery outer to that to that like soft but still pretty firm chocolatey to then the crunch of the cereal. It's all just all my favorite. There's something to be said about the two to three week age of puppy child. There's like there's definitely some fridge aging. like there's definitely something happening with the aging of a puppy child give it three weeks it's like chili you can't eat it the first day you can't eat it babe you gotta give it a few days so but we were really up we were like so what is this called and should we call it something else and is there a trademark because these are like all of kind of like the realities the grown-up realities of writing a cookbook and i was like and then you say puppy chow too many times and someone's like are you really calling something puppy chow and that's the sprite cake moment or the bugle bar moment where you're just like that's what it is and so put it down we are not compromising the name yeah yeah to close i want to ask about milk bar what's good at milk bar i i walk by it i i drop in i get some soft serve i get a cookie uh i have friends shout out to eram my my good young friend in san francisco loves loves you and milk bar we always try to when she's visiting San Francisco.

45:19I love it. We're 16 this year. We're actually a few days from our 16th birthday, which is crazy. We're building more bakeries, which is awesome. Any cities? About to open in Chicago, and then a few others that are to be named, but I'll be there. Yeah, yeah. We continue to love the showing up for people and people's lives. The big and the little Aram, we're in San Francisco together moments. and it's still my favorite place to innovate. Like obviously I love to bake and cook at home, but doing it for the people as a business at Milk Bar is so much fun. The partnerships that we lean into are like opportunities for us to do that.

46:01I brought you a Thanksgiving croissant. Thank you. One, because the stuffing croissant is in the Bake Club cookbook and it's on the menu for a limited time and they like go crazy every day. So show up early in the morning and get your Thanksgiving croissant on. People line up for these. I love it. They're so good. People love pastries. There's just something about it. I had Dominique Anselen recently. We just keep talking about lining up for pastries. Something like pure joy about waiting for a cookie or a croissant. You're not waiting in line for mac and cheese. I mean, I would for really good mac and cheese.

46:30But there's the inherent joy of just showing up with dessert. And our mantra is just like dessert for the people, man. We just want to democratize dessert. My goal in life is to feed every single person in the world a cookie because we talk about all these big, hefty, heavy things. And it's like small, joyful things, little by little over time stack up and make a really big difference. And so 16 years in, it's been like an absolute joy. And I'm just so curious and open-minded and excited about what the next, you know, we're 500 in, in taste. We're 16 years in, here we go. We'll see you on the other side, Christina.

47:07I love it. On this is Taste We Asked about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit. Mango at the Santa Monica Farmer's Market changed my life. I'd give up the rest of dessert for my life if I could just have that mango over and over. The worst vegetable. Beets. Hate beets. Yeah. Can't even smell them. It's a challenging one. This is for everyone, but for you, it's extra special. The best dessert. everyone answers it my best dessert is um chocolate chip cookie dough that's warmed slightly in the microwave or like grossly under make baked on a baking sheet it it will never get old for me never ever ever that's childhood because like the lunch ladies just didn't know how to it's like the part of childhood that no one ever would let you take it to you know what i mean or would make you take it too far when all you really wanted was it kind of warm raw Favorite city outside America to visit for food?

48:05Paris. Mexico City? Paris. It depends. Depends. Those are great answers. Both. Both. We'll give you. You worked in restaurants in New York for years. Is there a restaurant from New York that you would bring back from the dead? Oh, in a heartbeat, WD-50. Yeah. In a heartbeat. It was so ahead of its time. And it was so the reason that we think about food the way that we think about food. And it never got, I think, the credit that it deserved. And if it were still an operation, think of the incredible dishes and flavor combinations and technique. I know. That would continue to propel us forward as like a food community.

48:43It's true. There's some that come close. A hundred percent. But yeah, that was a special. And the alumni that came out of it is probably the most special part. What Wiley Dufresne was able to kind of foster in that space. And then the pastry side, Alex Tupac. Like Malcolm Livingston, Malcolm Livingston. Come on. Sam Mason, you. I mean, like so many. Rocio Sanchez. Rocio Sanchez. You could literally, yeah. Renee took all those guys. You love it. He's like, you're closing? Great. Yeah, yeah. Come join us. That's a good one. I love that, that you named that one. Your favorite cookbook of all time?

49:19The Joy of Cooking. Yeah. It's still, it's not where I go for my recipe. It's where I go for my starting point. It's just chocked full of so much history and ingredients and wacky and true and heartfelt. It's a funny way to put it. I mean, a good way to put it. Wacky is what it is in the best way possible in all respect. A recent cookbook discovery that you found. My recent cookbook discovery, like to the point of one of my jumping off points is going to like yard sales or thrift stores in search of great cookbooks. Are you ready for this? It makes perfect sense when you think about it. pick up the cookbook and find the page that has been dog-eared, turned to, has the most crumbs laying in the center.

50:00That is the recipe that you either take, I mean, buy the book. It's like a dollar. Take a picture of like that is, you want the recipe that someone has been made on repeat. And how do you find that in a cookbook? That's how you find it. Unreal. That idea is so, wow. Because we don't make every recipe from every cookbook in perpetuity. Maybe we bake through the book, but we find the one or two recipes that slay, that slap, that hit our taste buds. That's my, that's my, it's funny. It's like my recent discovery, but it's like hiding in hindsight for decades. Put on my WME hat. That's a TV show. That's a TV show.

50:37There you go. That's a TV show. You're really pitching these shows I'm into. We had a little one off the mic. Well, you should do it. The one off the mic we won't talk about. All right. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Oh, my favorite sandwich. Oh, East Village Days, sunny and annie's on avenue b just below the park and i always get the turkey reuben and i add kimchi because honestly if your local bodega isn't offering to put kimchi in your sandwich you're not at the right sunny and sunny and annie's it was my after 16 years ago like once a week on my air quotes friday night which was sunday night because i took monday off i'd walk over there they're open 24 hours which is great because at 3 a.m when you're like i'm ready for my weekly sandwich.

51:18It's the thing that fueled the whole Milk Bar empire from my contribution. Beautiful memory. Avenue B hit some great restaurants back in the day. And also, by the way, they still come up with new sandwiches. They're all hilariously named. They're all super clever and creative. And they don't get, like, it's an if-you-know-you-know, but it's the equivalent of going to an amazing bakery that has these great mashups. Sunny and Annie is first. I love that. Shout out. Christina Tosi, this has been a lot of fun. Happy 500th, my friend. And thank you. It's an honor to be here. Thank you for coming by.

51:46I love the book. Thank you so much.

51:57Eliza, what's up? How are you? What's going on? Not much. I'm just in recovery from my birthday weekend. We can talk about some of the things I did maybe. Oh, my God. I want to hear all about your birthday. You start. We're doing three things. You start. Okay. My first thing. Okay. It's a food plus activity, which is, I think, my favorite way to spend a weekend in New York. Food plus activities that I went to Pastis for lunch and then went across the street to the Whitney afterwards to see the Alvin Ailey show that they have on right now. And I highly recommend both of those activities, especially together.

52:28It's a one-two. It's like a perfect New York. Into the fall, into the winter. Is that show on past the holidays? Yeah, the show just opened. It's going to be up, I believe, through February. It's really incredible. It is kind of a combination of archival video and sound that is showing highlights from the Alvin Ailey Dance Company and then art that is both inspired by Alvin Ailey or was inspirational to him. Also, some of his personal letters with his friends like Langston Hughes, for example, that he collaborated with. And you're just kind of walking around the space, taking everything in. Beforehand, I went to pastis and I got French onion soup, which was like a very it was soul nourishing, I would say, in a both edible and non-edible way.

53:08I love the one-two pairing. And, you know, this show has been covered and on my list. And I'm so happy to hear it's as good as it sounds. And what's the scene check at Pastis right now? Oh, wow. I mean, it was a lot more locals than I kind of expected, I guess, maybe because we're not quite in holiday tourist season. Yeah, I really like there were a lot of like older distinguished gentlemen who like go there every Sunday probably and eat their own bowl of French onion soup together. That kind of vibe. We got a really nice like little two person booth that kind of seats out facing the dining room, which is really good for people watching.

53:47It was a lot of families, a couple of dates, I think, that were happening. It was cute. So Pastis, the old location, you know, Tom Brown, the designer, used to go there literally every day for breakfast. And I think he ordered like eggs and toast and one other thing. And it was like the legend of Tom Brown sitting there every day. And I've always thought about that. I've always gone back to that little, I think it was a New Yorker piece about him. and like in my retirement, in my life, when I can maybe have a schedule, I want to do that. I want to be like a regular at a restaurant every single day.

54:24That would be so cool. Yeah, I think that's really special. And I did not see Tom Brown, but I would keep an eye out for him. No, I just think that's what I connect with Pusty's for whatever reason. No, I love that. What's your first thing? My first thing is Eli Sussman is doing a collab with Baldor, the fine food purveyor. You see the trucks all around New York and you see it all around the East Coast, actually. And I love this move. He's doing a neon ski cap and it says peak season on it. And then he has a sweatshirt with the phone number of Baldur. And, you know, the the the phrasing, the the recording when you're when you're a restaurant, you call in, you call in your orders.

55:03And it's like the the line that they that they say is like printed all over the shirt. And I just like this idea of like the collab between Chef and Baldor and doing it in like an organic way. It looks really cool. Like I love the colors. And I don't know. I like Sussman. He's doing some cool work. So that's my first collab. My second collab is my friend Steve Rydell is making these cool shirts. Shirt Toast Fears is what it's called. And he's doing these Bob Mould sugar mashups. and he does a Red Hot Chili Peppers mashup, you know, in the spirit of Samin Nasrat's iconic book. I'll just leave it at that.

55:44I'm going to link to it in the show notes. It's a really fun collab. He's doing Beth Orton as Tim Hortons. You know, visual collabs are not the best podcast material, but I'm just saying. No, it's kind of like a riddle because now I'm trying to, I think I can picture what the Red Hot Chili Peppers mashup would look like. And then after we're done speaking, I can go see if I'm right. Yeah, it's great. Just hit the link. Shirtosphere is what it's called. What's your next three thing? My next thing is a public service announcement, which is that I found out I've been using a box grader wrong my entire life.

56:15I don't know if everyone else knows this, but I saw an Instagram reel about this and I actually got really furious that I had never thought about this. Apparently, it's supposed to go sideways. Do you grate this way? That's interesting. I've never seen it done that way, but I always feel like that up and down exposes the knuckle a little bit too much. It's really difficult to grate something up and down. Everything kind of like falls out. When you turn the box grater on its side, then you take your onion or your cheese and you're just kind of moving it back and forth like a mandolin. And then everything you're grating gets caught into the middle of the box grater.

56:48So it's perfectly contained. It's not flying everywhere. And then you can just pick up the box grater and you dump everything that you grated into your pan or your bowl or anything. That's a really great PSA. We're approaching Hanukkah. Yes. It'll be box grater season. Yes. The only way to do it is with a box grater. Do you agree? I completely agree. And I also think there is lore that you kind of need a little bit of bloody knuckles. So that is a proper lockup. I will say I think the bloody knuckles chances are much lower if you're using the box grater this way. I agree. It's great. We're approaching the season.

57:19We're also like holiday pies perhaps. I remember seeing a box grater recipe with pie by grating pie dough as a part of it. Have you seen this? Like you grate the butter for the pie dough. Yeah, exactly. You grate the butter for the pie dough. That's exactly right. I knew it was like a, I'm like, that's how much I bake, right? I'm like talking in broad strokes here. I'm not really doing like full, like, like, you know, America's Test Kitchen style recipe podcasting here. This is straight. Like, I think you use a box grater in a pie. I've seen recipes like this before. I just like, I remember, oh yeah, box graters can be done in pastry.

57:52How about that? Yeah, exactly. But really go home, do a box grater this way. It's going to be like a life changing moment. Yeah. So what else do you box grate? Do you ever get the bricks of cheese? Do you ever do that? Yeah, well, I make a quesadilla for lunch like at least once a week, if not more. So I'm buying the Cabot cheddar and grating it quite often. For me personally, this has been transformative. I always aspire to buy the bricks and save a little dough and just like maybe get a better cheese. I always end up going with the pre-shredded. I think a lot of people use pre-shredded. I don't personally just because I don't like that there's extra kind of preservatives or starches on it.

58:28And also sometimes I want to be able to cut off a piece of cheese and just snack on it. I agree. So I go for the block. The block. The block of cheese. I go for the block of cheese. You're pro block. Yeah. I don't know why. I always aspire for it. But then I look at those bags and they just they speak to me. But I'm you're making me think I might do my next trip to the grocery store. I'm going I'm going block. Do block just so that you can try the box creator this way. It's going to be worth it. Exactly. I was like thinking all the things that could be great. But yeah, that'll be the thing. Yeah.

58:56What's your next thing? My next thing is we had Malcolm Livingston II in to record a podcast. It'll come out, I think, at the end of December, early January. It's so terrific. And to remind listeners, Malcolm is a former NOMA chef. He worked at WD-50. His life is the basis of the character Marcus on The Bear. And he was on the final episode of this latest season of The Bear. And he's such a great guy. But I have to say, and it's because it's fresh in my mind, He brought with him some of his new ice cream bars, part of his plant-based ice cream company called August Novelties. It was really freaking good.

59:35Okay, tell me more. What's the base for the plant-based ice cream? So he uses the tiger nut, which is the size of a chickpea. And he says it grows in Spain. And that is like this unlock that he's had is this new style of milk, this protein source for the ice cream. And really, I think with the Tiger Nut, he's using, getting this texture that we all really seek with plant-based ice creams. I personally like Van Leeuwen a lot. I like their handhelds. I like their pints. I really don't like Ben & Jerry's. I've tried to. I love plant-based ice cream. I love vegan ice cream. It's really, to me, it's like a little bit lighter and it doesn't leave that coating that ice cream has.

1:00:17But his, you're going to like this, dude. He does a version of the Choco Taco. He's basically doing dark chocolate shell with these really, really, really great tortilla chips, like kind of like shredded tortillas as the coating on the outside. I love this idea. It's such a good idea, right? It's kind of genius. I can get this in the grocery store? He is still in research and development, and he is yet to launch it officially. There is a website, so it's not like he's telling me stuff off the record. But yes, he is. He just broke my heart in half, actually. I know. The other thing is he's doing a strawberry and cream with all Harry's berries.

1:00:58Ooh. And I have to say that was my favorite out of all three. And he has cookies and creams as well. Really, really high quality chocolate. I mean, he's going for, and he kind of wants it to be like reach for in August. Like he wants to be a new category of handheld. This is premium. You know, it's a very premium product. I can imagine it on the shelf of Erewhon or in the freezer section there. And this is like one of our greatest minds in pastry doing handheld ice cream bars. Delicious. Okay. Well, when they are one day released, I will be in line ready to buy the Choco Taco alternative. It's going to be big when customers can taste this version of Choco Taco.

1:01:36It's going to be huge. What is your last thing? My last thing is that I went to the preview for J.J. Johnson's Restaurant The Glory that he's been kind of previewing around the city. Have you heard about this before? I haven't actually. You know, I love JJ and he's been on the show a couple of times. I was unfamiliar with the new project from JJ. So tell us. He's been trialing this concept, combining the culinary worlds of the American South, Puerto Rico and Barbados. So kind of coastal cuisine, coastal black cuisine and all these forms. And he did a preview at Platform at the Beard Foundation earlier this year.

1:02:07And then last week I went to one at St. Bart's Church in Midtown, which was a very fun location for it. And actually the bishop of the church was having dinner there at the same time, which was really cool. I couldn't see what he was ordering, but I can tell you what I was ordering, which was really delicious. Some of my favorites were this kind of jerk duck that was really tender and delicious. He did charbroiled oysters that had scotch bonnet butter and crispy chicken skin kind of gremolata on top. That was quite good. Also really like the chicken wings, which were fried and kind of tossed in Old Bay.

1:02:39And then there was a guava sauce that you could soak up. There's a lot of guava on this menu, which is one of my favorite fruits. So I really enjoyed that. I think there is no permanent location for this restaurant yet. He's still kind of trying to find investors and bring it to life. But it does seem to be something that is kind of occasionally popping up around the city. So I would keep an eye out for that. I'm really happy to hear this. JJ has been one of my favorite chefs. I loved his work at the Cecil. I went there a couple of times. And Minton's as well was just kind of like a nightclub.

1:03:06And he was doing great, you know, bar food there. And then, you know, his rice restaurant had been to, I think, in Rock Center when he had it there. That was really cool. Yeah, now it's up in Harlem, Field Trip. Field Trip, right. Couldn't think of the name of it. Field Trip. That place was really cool. And, you know, JJ, his book from last fall or maybe a couple of falls ago, I can't remember, really amazing book about rice. It was like really one of the most comprehensive kind of assessments of the rice, you know, the rice recipe game and really like teaching everybody how rice comes from many sources.

1:03:39And I just thought he was so when we had a conversation about it, he's so passionate about rice and he's not just doing it for the cameras. He was like doing a lot of work behind the scenes. And so but he hasn't had a restaurant. So I'm like like this type of restaurant since Minton's and the Cecil closed. So, wow. So he's looking for like funding or something. Yeah, that was kind of the sense that I got was that they are trying the concept and trying to find a permanent home for it. But when I was there, it was a really good crowd there. Evan was really excited about the food. And I had a lot of things that I would love to get to eat again in a formal restaurant.

1:04:12So I hope it happens. Yeah, I hope it happens. What's your last thing? My last thing is I made a trip to Aquavit. I hadn't been there, I think, in like a decade. And I'm very excited about their new-ish, to me at least, bar menu. So Aquavit has had two mission stars for 10 straight years in New York, which is quite an accomplishment. and the chef is Emma Bengsten. She is a Swedish chef and this restaurant is Swedish in every way. And Aquavit is a restaurant that's in Midtown and really I think a lot of Swedes and a lot of international tourists are there and also like fans who want very structured like prefix style dining.

1:04:55She has a tasting menu that is all over the place in the best way. But this bar menu is cool because it's just like you can, it's a la carte. So there's like lower pressure to have all that food. And a couple of things come to mind because I haven't had like Scandinavian fine dining in many years. And I forget how much I just love the Smorxborg, like the spread of everything that they, you know, the pickled herring, gravlax, shrimp, skagen, cheese and potatoes all like piled together. But what Emma does with baking is incredible. The bread basket has three types of bread, sourdough, rye, and there's some crackers there.

1:05:33And I think that's one of her great strengths. She also introduced this fish burger made with Chilean sea bass, which I really enjoyed. And I have to say, like a black garlic bun, chilioli, it was really nice for a lunch. I'm totally into that. Yeah, I like the sound of that kind of like a lighter burger option. And of course, the homemade bread probably makes it really special. And she also has a princess cake. It's like her trademark pastry. And, you know, Emma, as I mentioned, is a tremendous baker. And I was, like, really happy to make a stop in Midtown to a new restaurant that I hadn't been to in a minute.

1:06:10So that was great. I'd love to hear it.

1:06:16This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.