513: Hype, Aesthetics, and Very Good Pizza with Chris Hansell (Chrissy’s Pizza) and Brooks Headley (Superiority Burger)

32:11Right. And I remember like we were eating it, you know, just sitting there, like the three of us just sitting there like, what the fuck? You know, and, you know, you're like in typical like self-deprecating mode. It was like, I don't know, I'm not a chef. And I remember Hannah looked at you and she's like sitting there and she goes, honey, you're a chef. that's so great phil hannah came in the next day to record with us because i recall she's like i was just some random guy's apartment eating pizza and here he is it's chris sitting before us and chris back to you let me ask you about the the dough and and setting up a dough program you're doing like 150 pies a day 160 160 like going from this this like at home pizzeria you obviously have the industry experience and you you saw high volume industry but how do you think about your dough program and like is it like are there like oh fuck moments like the dough isn't working the dough is not we don't have enough um not yet uh okay good next question no no um so this is the first time i've ever let anybody else touch my dough to opening this shop which is like you know i i think that like most chefs can like oh someone else is making my food um but there's this amazing guy named Luis who's who's from Chile and and he's like a punk guy so it was easy for us to get along and he was actually a dough guy at Lindistry prior but my dough is completely different than theirs like I have no I don't know what Massimo does um for his dough and and that's good that you don't know good because I don't want any of that I don't want my pizza to that's what when I was talking about the pizzerias that I worked at I was hesitant because I don't want anybody to think that like any of where what I'm doing comes from that pizza like those pizzas are great and they're amazing but everything that goes into my pizza is from me being a psychopath in my apartment during COVID um yeah yeah that's basically it like I didn't I mean like there's some influence from from like classic spots but like but um but Luis is incredible and I had to show him multiple times because I do my like like so I taught myself how to make the dough so i fold it differently i i mix it differently like there's the way that like so he tried to seal my dough balls when he we were cutting and rolling when i was training him and he couldn't do it because i was like that shit is really hard because he was trying to do like the normal method like this pinch and and turn method and you can't for some reason the way i mix and i don't want to change it um you can't do it that way and so it took him a while but you know the dough is like better than ever and i just can trust him he's there right i'm here talking to you and he's at the shop right now making Thursday uh Fridays so it's like over 50 60 hours 55 I think it's about 55 between like the the way it sits out at room temp before like during the mixing process and then before service but um yeah 55 I used to do 72 yeah but um it's not you can't really organ you have to have more fridge space more fridge space and I have my my place was a coffee shop prior so it's very small you saw it oh I saw it yeah and we'll have a basement but but anyway yeah it's like it's it's a it's a 55 55 or maybe a little bit more hour cold fermented dough there are no pre-ferments there is no sourdough um i'm not against them in general but i am against them for my pizza um it's just a direct dough that's handled with care and fermented for a long time and again like and again the time is not it's just not just a number it's flavor like we're talking about developing flavor how do you think about that with your with your with your bread your bread program it was tough for me to be like okay i can't go full 72 unless i do a poolish or a biga or something like that and i didn't want to do that i don't like for my pizza i don't like the flavor profile i like that so like one of a huge influence for me is like a place like um like king umberto and elmont or whatever like giovanni like he he his dad, they're still using this classic dough, this direct ass dough I think they throw the pate fermenté method where they throw some old dough into the new mix which is awesome but then he's messing around with Roman style and these metro pizzas it's cool, that's a huge influence for me because I can go there still and eat that slice and remember the exact time I was there with my dad when I was a kid but then also try his Sfinchone and all these newer things he's messing around with it's about flavor development and what and how you think about i think about that dough like which is like it's pretty like i talked to him he's pretty open about it like you know their classic regular pie he's like yeah we do like the old dough and the new mix it's like this hydration whatever whatever um it's just i think that all i learned was that time and care develops that flavor so i like 55 hours 60 hours i think 72 is good too but it's a little bit riding on the edge depending on like the temperature or whatever, like the possibility of over-proofing.

37:08And I think that the way I mix it, which is, I don't know why I do it the way I do. Yeah, but it sits out for a certain amount of time before it goes in the fridge. It sits out for a certain amount of time after it comes out for service. And I think that the flavor is great. And I think that, and it's hard for me to say that because as Brooke said, like I'm pretty self-deprecating about my food. But it hits me where I'm like, my dad would love this. And so that's all. That's all I give a shit about. There's that Jeffrey Steingarten essay about pizza in one of his books where he talks about specifically New York pizzerias as being these prehistoric bakeries that are on every street corner, you know?

37:49And that's such a cool way to think about it, especially thinking about this new Chrissy's. It's this prehistoric bakery that does one thing really well. That's cool. It's very cool. And thinking about pizza areas as bakeries is an amazing thought and something we tried to further on the show. It really does come down to the bread development, the flavor development with your bread program. Let me ask you about finding the spot on Nassau in Greenpoint, picking Greenpoint, a place that has great pizza. Well, you can go to any neighborhood in New York and have great pizza. And the early word is that this is pizza you can't miss.

38:25And I visited last weekend. And lines are – I won't give it times, but there were maybe like 50 people in line. What's that like to have a pizzeria just like blow up like that? I thought it was going to be busy, but I didn't know it was going to be this busy. I did. Yeah. Word is out. It's been a – so Monday was our last day of service. We were closed on Tuesdays and Wednesdays for now. That marks a month we've been open. And the line has never stopped. And it's crazy. But for me, luckily, I'm buried kind of in the back by the oven. So I don't see it. And it forms not in front of my store or going in front of my window.

39:07It's to the left. So if I look out, I can see the first person in line, but I can't see how far down the block it goes. And so if I saw it, I'd probably freak out and get nervous. But I'm just stuck there. I make every single – yeah, that's another thing. I make every single pizza that comes out of the shop. It's me. There's nobody else that tops and launches them. It's me. I have a guy running the oven named Aqbal who's incredible, who used to work at S.B. Also, he worked at S.B. Yeah. I see the path. My friend Dristan is pushing them out a little bit for me so I can go faster when it comes time.

39:39But it's me making every single pizza. So I don't really have a second to think about the line. I just have to go. I'm grateful that people want to eat it that bad. Do I like that they're waiting for a long time? No, but people are talking about it, and so people are lining up. How do you mitigate it, though? Like how do you – like from service, you know, you have somebody working the booth. And how do you make people not get super mad? David. David. Mercenary David. So David, who also used to work at Superior. He's the sweet giant man who controls the line. He's my expo guy. He controls the line.

40:15Very nice guy. He's the best. So he'll go out 2 o 'clock. We open at 2 o 'clock. He'll go out at like 1.59 or 2 o 'clock and just make these announcements and tell people how it works and tell people, you know, what to expect and how if they want to stay they have to get it on a tray if they're getting it in a box the box has to go with them so the box is great the design loving that i mean it's just the classic it's just i mean i didn't want branded boxes it's just it's just a classic pizza box but he if i didn't have david who like has he he comes from he cooks but he comes from he was the door guy at international bar for a little while no way so he's got the gift of gab he's got the gift of security working line at international oh man that's a that's a great skill set to have yeah so i'm there wow he's he's the guy if i didn't have david because we have chelsea who also kind of like runs the joint she's the front of house person and runs the joint basically but she's a little bit less social than david so like it takes a lot of weight off of her and i think that he likes to be able to be outside it's just it's this incredible crew of people like it's everyone's a character it's amazing i mean it reminds me of sb of course i mean especially early days sb when you could really get to meet everyone in the space you know you you foster it's a similar sized insurance pretty close like pretty except you have i have a basement but yeah it's funny when i saw the space i was like shit this looks like old sb yeah well i want to ask you i'll start with you brooks you know you each have spent time playing in bands and you know i I think bands inform restaurants in unique ways.

41:47Of course, there's the soundtrack and having band signifiers and merch around and having a vibe. But really, let me ask you, Brooks, there's this mentality that touring musicians have. There's ingenuity. There's thinking on the fly. There's a lot of skills that you gain on tour. How does that relate to restaurants? And how have you been able to channel your previous careers in music to make these restaurants so special? I mean I don't really think that there's like any sort of direct connection if you've been in a band and you run or work in a food operation I mean at this point like pretty much almost everyone has been in a band yeah but the for me it's the and this doesn't necessarily apply directly to someone that was in a band or in a touring band or in a touring band that made no money and slept on people's floors or whatever is just going back to what I was saying before is obsession um i think it was like one of my favorite john waters quotes is like without i'm gonna fuck this up but without obsession you have nothing you know um and when you are in a band like you're you're working together and you have a singular focus you know and you're and and typically all four or five or six or two or one person is completely obsessed with the project at hand and because you have to be um so i tend to look for people that have that feeling or that vibe of obsession um even if they weren't necessarily like in a shitty punk band or whatever but um i can count off on my hand like a like a bunch of people that have worked at sb that have contributed massively to like the operation just based on their obsessive nature with food you know so i think uh yeah one of my other favorite quotes is michael lasconis the old pastry chef from la bernadette would always have this cuisine or death oh i love that guy i love that love that love that mention michael what about you chris what how does the band your band background like help you open chrissy's i don't know that how it helped me open chrissy's necessarily i mean i mean i similarly to what brooks i mean like what brooks said makes total sense i also just think that uh i always like to say that and i've said this to brooks multiple times is that like coming from um punk or hardcore and stuff like that like it just immediately gives you the upper hand in life because it kind of does because it's like you know it's like doing everything yourself putting out your own records going on tour booking them by yourself you have these organizational skills that like don't come that you didn't learn in school i didn't go to college so like i didn't learn any of these things in school i learned them through playing music and trying to just you know perform in front of people and have a good time but also i think that because uh punk and hardcore so special uh there's these aesthetics in it that influence like how like you said like how did your pizza get so popular like i don't know like i just posted for i like to make something look cool like i'll take a good photo of the pizza or whatever but through album art and photos of old books like documenting the 80s hardcore scene and stuff like that's like you have these you have like it's the coolest art in the world it's like the best art so it's like if you get to be into cool stuff your whole life what we or what i consider like the coolest shit like i i think that like does like having chrissy's like the the design aesthetic my friend sean did the sean joyce southpaw signs like did like the sign and and did the windows and did the new logo and all these things like because we can't but he knew exactly what to do for me because he also grew up going to I mean you have the upper hand in aesthetics I mean you have confidence and you have a point of view which I think is two things point of view is huge in restaurants and food and if a place doesn't have a point of view it feels weird well yeah when it's farmed out to an agency or a fancy restaurant designer and it's meant to fit an audience you're thinking about audience first but both of you are singular and you're not thinking about your diners in terms of the aesthetic you're thinking about your own vision right Mm-hmm.

46:02Yeah, 100%. Brooks, I've wanted to have you back because I think my – I've been to Superiority, I think, three or four times this year, and each visit is extremely memorable. And I think a lot of our listeners have been and left with an impression of innovation, especially on the pastry side. You're always with gelatos, ice creams, sorbets, and, of course, all the plated desserts are always changing in a way that's exciting. What's year two? What's the theme like right now of your second year? Do you have a general sense of how things are going? We had a pretty creative and solid year starting in kind of the late spring, pretty much right when the market really started ramping up.

46:48For Old SB, it was a lot of, what can I say, like it was a tiny menu and then like specials constantly i mean that's not totally accurate some some of the of the specials we did run every day too and when we first opened up uh the new sp it was such a massively different operation in terms of uh amount of staff and amount of covers and this and that um so I wasn't able to initially like have it be as insanely changing and crazy as possible and that's just you know because you know the whole thing with you open up a restaurant and you all of the reviews and all the attention is immediate like within seconds of opening within a day of opening that kind of thing and you always get better you know and it's just i mean it's the way it is i'm not complaining about that um but the uh yeah we've had a really good year in turn and a lot of really awesome people uh filtering in and out of the kitchen um so moving into the winter now you know getting into like potentially the third year as we have just an arsenal of specials that are non-seasonal um that i don't have to necessarily worry about specific things coming from the market because of their hat they happen to be in season at the same time like i'm still deeply into like micro seasonality when the opportunity emerges like you know that perfect moment in early october where there's uh new crop apples and raspberries at the same time and they kind of taste the same and that's so cool um but if you don't go to the market for two weeks you miss the whole thing um i love stuff like that or like you know when the kiwi berries start um and why the fuck do kiwi berries grow upstate but actual kiwis don't like that's so weird so cool um but being able to like grab things and that's something that i uh i really like to make sure that the staff at sb knows is that like you know we are going to the market as much as possible to like because sometimes you miss a week you miss something yeah um and that doesn't necessarily mean like we're only using market produce because that'd be impossible but um it's really important to me to like you know know the farmers that you're dealing with and know what know what they have coming know what is available and like you know there's certain things like i'm trying to think of a good example but there it's it's it's so many different things where say like a nectarine is amazing one week and then maybe it was only amazing that one week and then it kind of like it's still great and you can still get it and you can still do something beautiful with it but that one week where it's you don't have to do anything to it and it's such an incredible sensation you know it's amazing i think we had a great stone fruit season in new york this year i thought it was like last year was crummy it was like really bad for whatever reason but talk about farmers you like i i would love to know like who are the guys you're hitting up i mean we get a ton of stuff from campo rosso um there are fridays at union square um occasionally it seems like uh the sp instagram is just are just commercials for campo rosso um but yeah they they they i've had a deep kinship with them since the restaurant started um chris and jesse um because they they do a lot of things that are kind of inefficient in order to get like the best possible thing and you know for example they're doing um sprouting cauliflower and sprouting romanetto and this like purple sprouting cauliflower that is so delicious and so crazy that like just a quick blanch and like gently salted water is just it's unbelievable and then if i make a sauce or something crunchy to go on it it's almost like not that important compared to like the actual raw product you know and like again that's not to say that like i'm only using that kind of stuff You know, our collard green sandwiches is, you know, we get boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes of collard greens that come off of a truck, you know, and that and those get pressure cooked into like silky awesomeness.

51:17But it's really special to be able to serve. And again, this goes back to obsession, like Chris and Jesse growing these things and getting the seeds from Japanese purveyors to do this thing. and then having to sell them per pound for a price that a lot of people might walk through the market and be like, oh my God, are you serious? But it's absolutely worth it. Absolutely. And you can go there on Fridays. They're at Union Square on Fridays. Yeah, Fridays, go early. So check it out. Go early, Campo Rosso. Can I just interject about Campo for a second? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To what Brooks was saying, like two years ago or something, he got me a bunch of Jimmy Nardellos and jalapenos from Campo Rosso and I did a special pie.

52:00This was what I was still doing at the apartment. That was just jimmies and jalapenos. And then I did piped ricotta on the finish. And I remember Brooks was like, so how did you prepare the jimmies and the jalapenos? He's like, what did you do to them? I was like, oh, nothing. I just sliced them because they're so fucking good. Right? When you just don't have to mess with it. Brooks, tell me, I'd like to know one dish that you feel that maybe less people know about on the menu. I know you've got your standards and your classics. But of course, there's other ones, some hidden gems. What do you want to call out?

52:34I feel that, like, I mean, the food at SB, like, it's a pretty small menu, our pink all-day menu at this point. I'm very proud of our French fries. It only took us, you know, 10 years to finally figure out a way to do it. And now they're offered all the time. You actually get them automatically with a burger. You can get a side. it's a tremendous amount of work and it's a tremendous amount of stress because potatoes are just brats you know but I think for me the thing that I think is really special about the new SB is our bar it's an amazing bar to hang out at it's a small it's the old Odessa bar Which which you never would have known it was there in some right like I have a few friends that between the two of them have claimed that they went to Odessa thousands of times and both of them are like I never sat at the bar.

53:38never and some people will say oh yeah i sat at the bar but for the most part people are like yeah i don't ever remember anyone sitting at the bar um but it's we basically had to rebuild it um because it was kind of falling apart but it's um we made a conscious a conscious choice um and our bar manager now gm fozzy butt who's kind of like legendary east village bar guy if you've ever had a drink at any east village bar in the past like 25 years it's pretty good chance that fozzy served you one of those drinks you know um and when fozzy and i were talking before we opened the idea was we didn't want to have any creativity in the cocktails we just wanted to do classics but with like deep deep deep care for fresh juices you know and we even And even to this point, and I think it's like I'm not really a cocktail guy, but I love the cocktails at Superiority Burger.

54:36You know, we have a ZoomX machine, which we let's say. OK, so we got the ZoomX machine because they're totally cool looking. And we put it in back of the fountain in the in the hopes that we would sell tons of fresh orange juice for brunch. We drastically overestimated the amount of orange juice people want, which is zero. And those things are a pain to clean, too, right? they're a pain to clean but it's our ice cream machine yeah but the quality of the juice that comes out of them it juices them juices the citrus so delicately um so we kind of use it mainly just for the bar for lemons lemons and limes and it just it as soon as we got that machine which was like a few months ago um it immediately like elevated the the quality of the the citrus and for the cocktails you know and um occasionally we'll have like a creative thing here and there for a special, but it's just so fun to sit at that bar.

55:33We have these amazing, amazing bartenders. Fozzie basically curated our bar with the best characters, like the kind of person, the kind of people that you want to serve you. And they're so nice, kind people. To me, my experience at your bar has been kindness. Yeah, it's fun. There's a great service. It's really, really fun. I mean, these guys, these are East Village guys. They're not like fancy suspender mustache guys. These are East Village guys. and gals. And I feel like the kindness and the hospitality has always been excellent at Superior de Borg. Yeah, it was funny. David and Anna from Elska in Chicago were in town.

56:09And they were doing a James Beer dinner and they had come in for lunch. And I was like, oh, after your dinner, you should come back and hang out at the bar. It's my favorite bar to hang out at. And David looks at me and he's like, don't get high off your own supply, by the way. Is Mark working? Mark Auerbald? Does he work in shifts? Oh, yeah. You'll see him around. A couple days a week. If he's working, it's the best. If Patty's working, it's the best. Yeah. We have all of our bartenders just fucking rule. No, it's a great bar. It's a great reminder to that. And also, if you're waiting for a table, you can always have a drink there.

56:38Sure. You could eat at the bar, too. I mean, you can eat at the bar. When you ask me where I like to hang out the most, I didn't want to say it because he's sitting right next to me, but it's like the bar at Superiority Bar. It's a good one. And shout out putting Al's Ale on there. Oh, yeah. I like that choice. Well, Al was a regular at Old SB for years. And then during COVID, he started that making his non-alcoholic beer. So it was sort of a given that we would that would be our non-alcoholic beer, which we actually sell a ton of it, too. So, no, it's a really nice beer and great reminder. On This is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste.

57:10So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious. Taste check. Each of you, you're taking the test. Chris, you first. We'll go. We'll go each answer the question. Starting with you, Chris, the best fruit. Pineapple. apricot okay what makes a good apricot because they're hard to find i feel oh yeah i like them because you really almost never can you eat them raw like you have to develop the flavor yeah i like the challenge and when they're good they're so good ah so good the worst vegetable kale yeah please please please expand it just sucks it's weird on my stomach uh it's never like massaged correctly.

57:49It's like the mouthfeel stinks. I don't know. I just don't like it. You gotta try Nico's stuffed shells. Okay, maybe I'll try Nico's. There's probably a good kale in our city. I was opposed to. What about you, Brooks? What's your answer? Potatoes. I fucking hate potatoes. Was there like... No, I mean, I love potatoes, but I hate potatoes. But you hate... Oh, there's such pain in the ass. Alright, the best dessert? I was gonna say bread. But if I had to choose, it'd be like affogato or something like that. Oh, affogato, right. What's your pastry ambition up at Chrissy's? None. Maybe some semolina rolls.

58:26But, yeah, I mean, I don't have any pastry. I mean, I love fancy desserts. It's one of my favorite cookbooks. It's great. But I have no – I'm not a sweets guy. No cookie? No cookie? I mean, like a salty chocolate chip cookie would be the best. Bro, margin's nice. You'll then make some money. All right, Brooks, what about you? Favorite dessert? The banoffee pie at the Spotted Pig in 2006. That's my standard answer anytime anyone asks me. Like the most brilliant, perfect slice of dessert I've ever had. You came to play. I appreciate that. Favorite city outside America to visit for food? Mexico City.

59:03Can I say two? Sure can. Athens, Greece. Those are the two places I've ever had the best food in my entire life. Fuck, I've never been to Greece. I couldn't even tell you what I ate there. These are also places that I had the privilege of going on. I never would get to travel without touring. So stopping in a city to play a show or two and then eating is like the best thing on the planet. And the two places I've loved the most are Mexico City and Athens. Brooks, you? Most obvious answer, Tokyo. Yeah. It's like, again, going back to obsession, like, it's all great. It's all great? Never been still.

59:35I mean, pizza there. All right. There's really good pizza in Tokyo. There's good pizza in Tokyo. Okay, this is a big one for each of you. I'll start with you, Chris. a restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead so my answer to that is going to be strange because it's just there's two there's two places that i just lived near for a long time that both closed around the same time uh northeast kingdom in bushwick like that burger was like insane um and i miss it very much and it's i think it's an artichoke pizza now so i'm sure you know how i feel about that yeah um and uh this other place called cafe guia that was like a couple blocks away from northeast kingdom that was just like my hangover breakfast spot just like the best the best breakfast and it was there for like six years and closed in 2016 or something like that.

1:00:17Good memory. How about you, Brooks? I mean, they're all so tied to specific time periods. Sure. That's what's good about this question. Let's go back there. Let's go back in time. Village Yokocho? Yeah. Like, What year though? Because it got the food kind of, it used to be, you know, I don't want to be, I mean, like just, just everything, like the, the, the yellows in the room and the serve, the service style. Oh, man. Like, it just was always fun, you know? Favorite cookbook of all time? Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking, Marcello Hassan. Yeah. I mean, if I'm ever cooking at home, which I don't do ever, it's just making that tomato sauce, like the butter and half an onion, whatever.

1:01:00Yeah. It's the best. And I just, like, you know, have it in the shop. I always just like to look through it. It's nice to have you peeking there, looking at you every day. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's nice. How about you, Brooks? I've said this a million times. The Last Course by Claudia Fleming, like the greatest dessert cookbook of all time. And also Eat Me, the Shop Sense book, just because it's the best. Yeah, it's a wonderful book, both of those. And Claudia's new version of The Last Dessert is available now. It's not out of print anymore, which is amazing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've pretty much ripped off every single dessert in that book multiple times.

1:01:37Do you guys have a relationship, you and Claudia? Oh, yeah. Claudia's my bud. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. A favorite recent cookbook discovery? Bread and How to Eat It. Yeah. Rick Easton and Melissa McCart. It's just the coolest book. It's basically telling you not to make bread at home. Why wasn't Rick here, too? I know. We should have gotten Rick. I know. Rick should have been here. Can we do a trio one next time? We can. You guys are always invited back. It'd be great to have the three of you on, Mike. And that book is amazing because how do you publish a book here at Knopf and say, hey, you shouldn't make this.

1:02:09Yeah, but if you have to, here's something. It's a really, really cool book. What about you, Brooks? One that I hadn't had, and I actually just got like a couple weeks ago because I decided I wanted to tackle the seitan recipe, is the Xi 'an Famous Foods book. Oh, yeah. And so I've been basically trying to make their seitan like over and over again over the past couple weeks. I didn't make it yesterday, but I made it the day before. And I'm still not even close, but I'm learning. Yeah. And the whole method where you, you know, you start with flour and water and then let the dough rest and then wash all the starch off.

1:02:50And then you're left with like the 100 percent straight gluten. Just because like the every time I've had the cold skin noodles there, it's just it's. And the thing is that you learn in the book is the starchy water is the noodles and the gluten is the seitan in that dish. And that's so cool. Separation there is interesting. Last one, your favorite sandwich. It could be like a specific sandwich from a specific place. It could be a specific restaurant sandwich. It could be a general category. We will accept both answers. A cheesesteak with Cooper Sharp long hots and onions from Angelo's in South Philly.

1:03:28I got to hit that one. I don't know. His bread is so insane. Brooks and I talk all the time about how it's really nice when someone's cooking pisses you off. Or baking in this manner. His bread, I'm just like, fuck you. This is too good. It's opening on Avenue A. Yeah, I heard he's opening. It's called Danny and Coops or something. But yeah, I think it's on Avenue A. Oh, wow. Breaking news here. That's good. What about you, Brooks? Favorite sandwich? I was never, ever, ever into tuna melts ever for any reason. I was kind of like in general opposed to like tuna salad. But I was in L.A. over Labor Day and I had a tuna melt at Apple Pan.

1:04:12And it was a fucking straight up religious experience. And I don't understand. And I think that's my favorite sandwich now. So I can't wait to go back to L.A. so I can go back and get one. What's the factor? Is it the cheese choice? I watched I was sitting at the counter and I was watching the guys on the griddle like they just pulled the bread out of the bag they toasted it they took the ice cream scoop of uh tuna salad and there was a slice of I believe Tillamook cheddar and then some butter on the griddle and that's it and then it came with a little pile of pickles yeah and some uh can California black olives.

1:04:52Oh, shit. Nice. And it was, like I said, it was like a religious experience. I love that memory. Brooks and Chris, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us.

1:05:06This Is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.