515: Korean-American Food’s Big 2024 with Danny Lee

31:19So a lot of industry people gravitate towards there because after they don't have a shift, there's so many places where you can get, you know, good food, especially raw bar. Sorry, I mean— Old Ebbett Grill. Oh, Old Ebbett. That's one right by the White House. Exactly. Oh, yeah, dude. And their raw bar is legendary. But again, it's just a solid place. You know, a lot of people like to not go to places that feel corporate and like a big restaurant I don't think you'll ever hear anyone in the industry talk badly about old of a girl that place has fed and quenched a lot of entry people's thirsts for decades yeah the fact that you're doing that reverse happy hour is amazing yeah I lied you know in terms of a classic restaurant you can't get more classic than order the grill old of a grill that is that is a great pick Danny and this is taste we asked guests are about their starting taste so to close this interview here's a little rapid-fire fast and furious no are you ready i think so the best fruit asian pear yeah hard to come by sometimes hard to come by but it's so versatile we use it for we use it as a sugar substitute actually for um we'll also make a puree out of it and like that's in like our bulgogi marinade our calvi marinade at mandu we actually uh use it to kind of brine our chicken wings oh so good the worst vegetable canned canned that's the best answer i've heard in a long time just canned i feel like i mean canned beans in some ways like green beans can can work no just no yeah certain things are fine canned but vegetables not veg the best dessert you know i don't have the biggest sweet tooth but i would say hot dog yeah it's you know it has almost serenity to it you have that like perfect you know texture Cheerwise.

33:09Dough. I like the version where it's just the brown sugar and cinnamon and sesame seeds inside. Delicious. Favorite American fast food chain? Oh, easy. Fuddruckers. I love Fuddruckers. And I'm not sure how many are around anymore. But I mean, it's like a running joke. Peter Serpico actually bought me a Fuddruckers t-shirt. What makes it good? I don't feel like those are the spots. Fuddruckers is a perfect restaurant. Danny is it because the burgers are like cool like creative is that what like they're like no it's not creative it's it's their it's a great patty the their brioche buns are perfect yeah and then they have this incredible fixin's bar and I also love their wedge fries and that's a point of contention between a lot of chefs and I is that they make fun of me because I love wedge the wedge yeah yeah but I love their wedges if they're fried perfectly and the seasoning is like A plus correct yeah that's all you need from a wedge I almost worked at FedRucker's right after college.

34:07It was like a scene from that movie Waiting. Oh, yeah. Where the manager pulls him and he's like, hey, you could be under me in a couple years. You know what, you gotta have this. That literally happened to me because I was a regular at the one right near my mom's house. Oh, no. And I knew the whole staff. They'd always give me cookies and shakes to bring home to my mom and a burger. And he was like, let me talk to you. What did you do after college? And I was like, I don't know. And he was like, you should work here. Put you on the management track. A couple years, you could have this store. And I was like, I want this store.

34:33that's like you went back and really thought about your life yeah as I remember taking my mom to dinner and I was like hey I know what I'm going to do after college she was like what are you going to do I said I'm going to become assistant manager at the Fuddruckers down the street she was like no you're not a Korean mom doesn't answer that is there a Korean Fuddruckers in your future no I would like there to be an actual Fuddruckers in my future I love that answer Danny that's real fun I mean you thought that one through a couple more your favorite cookbook of all time You know, funny enough, I've never been a big cookbook guy.

35:06We have cookbooks, and we've also been gifted a lot of cookbooks. I mean, obviously right now, Korea world. Yeah, right. Because we're in it. Yeah, you're in it. It's beautiful. I love seeing you and Angel in the cookbook, but yeah. We've collected some cookbooks from Korea over the past few years. Right now, there's one specifically about banchan. Oh, cool. And that's been fascinating to look through. A cuisine you would like to learn more about. Ethiopian. D.C. has a huge presence of Ethiopian restaurants, and it's something that I feel like if you have lived in D.C. for any number of years, you can take for granted of how many delicious Ethiopian restaurants that we're surrounded by.

35:48and that's a cuisine that I'd really like to delve into in terms of the preparation and cooking process and some of the use of spices. I think there's a lot of overlap with just the philosophy of cooking the European food and the philosophy of what goes into Korean food. There's a difference obviously in ingredients but I think there's a lot of things that could be shared. I've had the privilege of traveling to Ethiopia and I absolutely agree the style of dining, the flatbreads feel like pagine in some ways, injera, and also just like the use of chili, spice. There's fermented sauces. I think that's a cool connection.

36:29I love to learn more myself, so that's a good one. The last one, your favorite sandwich. I'm really, really basic when it comes to sandwiches. So my mom used to run a deli with her best friend, Mrs. Chung, like when I was basically born until when I was maybe 10. And they would bake chicken breast overnight and bring it in deli slice it so i'll just get a really nice you know french loaf fresh baked chicken breast and just uh some type of like either provolone or swiss just melted on top literally nothing else no mayo nothing and just eat that i will still make that to this day no condiments nothing nothing and i get made fun of a lot for it but it's to me it's maybe it's a nostalgia thing but um just simply baked chicken with cheese uh and bread it to me is a perfect i love that simplicity i had i do with uh tortillas just tortilla and cheese yeah yeah i love that it's something about like the texture and the purity it's like it's like one note in the best way it's like soft and cheese like it's like chicken breast and cheese and bread yeah and And even back then, I didn't like cheese.

37:40So literally just be bread, chicken, bread. And then I would sometimes put potato chips inside. Oh, that's a little bit of crunch. Yeah. Oh. It was so dry. So hungry now. This is amazing. Dry is good, though, with chicken breast sometimes. It sounds weird, but like some of his texture actually over plumpness. Danny Lee, what a great conversation. Thank you so much for having me. No, thanks for having me.

38:08Simon Kim, welcome to This is Taste. How are you, my friend? Mad. It's been a long time coming. So, so happy to be here. Much love. I love it. We've shared meals. We've shared stages. You've never been on the podcast, so here we are. My first time, and I'm a huge fan of you, your book, your love for our culture, Korean culture and food, and you sharing this with the rest of the country in the United States. It really means a lot, and I'm really grateful. Thanks, Simon. I really appreciate you saying that. I mean, it's just a love of what you do and many Korean-American chefs and restaurant folks.

38:44And just I've been inspired by your story. And I want to dig into Corey, your family's restaurant in Tribeca in the 90s. Before I get to that, what's good in New York right now? You're opening concepts. You've got Coca-Doc. You've got plans. But where else are you going? Because I know you're a big restaurant fan. Before I go there, on behalf of Korean people, thank you, Matt. Oh, buddy. That's humbling. I do it truly as a fan. I cover Korean food with Dookie and just as a huge fan. And we feel it. And this is not anything other than true affection. And that's what we appreciate. And so, yeah, my question about what's good, where have you been going?

39:25I don't know. It's my time right now. It's our, you know, we have amazing people. I have amazing business partners like Victoria James, David Shim, Chef SK, our COO, Alex. We have an amazing team. So we're ready to play. So we're obviously opening in Eastside, 550 Madison. That is going to be like the crown jewel of our company. So we're really working hard towards building the best version of that. But we just opened Cocoduck and Singapore. So lots of excitement. Yeah. We're very focused. Wait, you open Cocoduck in Singapore? We open Goat in Singapore. Right, right, right. You open Cocoduck in New York, and we'll get to that.

40:08Yeah, I mean, so many cool plans. I mean, the Eastside expansion is going to be amazing. Do you have any time to go to other restaurants that aren't part of your group? Definitely. I mean, I need to stay inspired. And New York City has so many amazing restaurants. And I feel like this year, a lot of exciting things are really opening. So I'm very excited. I've yet to go to San Sabino. Yeah. I love Donna and you guys. Definitely. Can't wait. I'm going there on Monday. I can't wait. I might join you. Yeah, let's roll. I love it. Yeah, yeah. Sansa Mino is cool. Have you been down to Ariari in the East Village?

40:41I've not yet. I love Busan and I love the seafood there. So I heard so many great things, but I didn't get a chance to go. Ariari is good? It's good. I mean, they've got like three or four like just standout dishes. The albap with the uni cream. They've got this incredible ganjan salad that just has a really nice style of... Kanjang salad. Like the ganjang dressing is special. That's cool. These aren't your restaurants. It's getting to your restaurants. Yeah. I appreciate you being game to talk about other spots, but I wanted to start the conversation about Kori, which is the restaurant your folks ran in Tribeca.

41:17It opened in 1998, and you worked there as a young 'in, and I loved Kori. I was able to visit a few times. I didn't go there a lot, but I did enjoy the space. It's so unique. So, Simon, tell me about working in Korean restaurants, not in Koreatown, in New York in the 90s. What was that like? Yeah. So that was my mother's restaurant. And this was 90s. 98? 98. Yeah. So this was way before this boom of modern Korean. And when my mother was like, I'm going to open a restaurant there. I was like, no, you're not. This is Tribeca. My middle-aged mom, you can't do that. But she's a hero. So she took the bullet.

42:00She bit the bullet. She dived in head on. And I was a 16 years old bus boy from Long Island taking Long Island Railroad into work. I didn't know how this was going to go. But it went well. People loved it. So your mom, her instinct was to open in Tribeca and open in this very airy, lofty space that didn't feel like Koreatown. Was that a strategy or was it just where she found? That was. So she went to the French Culinary Institute. Yep. Then, I think since then it changed its name. Yep, yep, yep. So she went there and took a lot of technique, and she basically took this French way of preparing and cooking, and then she adopted that into Korean cooking that she was really keen on.

42:48And she opened curry. When you were working there, I mean, what's it like as a 16-year-old working in a Korean restaurant in the early 2000s in New York, it's a different attitude towards Korean food. Were the diners, was it like a niche audience of people who loved Korean food and then Korean Americans? Who were the diners? I think it was a nice mix. There was definitely people who was fascinated by Korean food because it was so new. Because back then, it was only 32nd Street, very ethnic, immigrant. and my mom opened a restaurant in Tribeca that's a little trendier. I remember before we opened the restaurant, we wanted to paint the wall with sponge.

43:33And I remember it was like a 20 feet ceiling. So we took a big ladder and I remember like dabbing the walls with a sponge. Oh, I lived in the 90s too. I remember sponge painting. That was like the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. That was a lot of fun preparing, but not knowing, you know, I think that's when it really clicked, that entrepreneurial spirit, because we had no idea what's going to happen once we opened the door. And that anticipation and my mother, who had basically no idea how to run a restaurant in Tribeca, and Tribeca was a lot cooler then, right? Right now, it's a little more gentrified.

44:10It's so true. It was way cooler then. It was really cool. You had film offices. You had definitely a Tribeca grill. Yes. As a restaurant. Nobu was there. Back then, it was an era. It was kind of a romantic era for Tribeca. And to be part of that was what my mom wanted. And she took a crack at it. And to everyone's surprise, it was really busy. And I think that's what I learned. If you build it and if you put your real heart and passion into it, it doesn't really matter whether you're serving Korean food, Japanese food, Thai food, Vietnamese food. I think humans desire human interaction, something that you prepare with intention, good intention, good hospitality.

44:58Then people will come. It's not a rocket science. It's so smart. I think this actually leads to your real estate strategy with going back to Piora with Cote, with Coca-Doc. I mean, these are not prime corner spots. They're destination spots. Clearly, a strategy was born at Tribeca. Right. And I think that's when it was validated. When my mom, middle-aged mom from Korea, who spoke very little English, opened the restaurant and her gravitas, her love to serve, love to please, love to cook, basically drew people in. And especially a city like New York, where we're so sensitive. We're like New York is the busiest city in the world, probably.

45:40But it's also the loneliest city in the world, if you will. So I think when you have this love and affection, people are just so drawn to it. It's true. Let's talk about the menu at Cori. What is your mom's style of cooking? You know, you talk about she went to FCI and developed some culinary skills. but it was probably a lot of like Soma, like some of the traditional cooking, right? Yes. So she went kind of like Huni's route, right? Basically, there's a traditional route and then there is also modern route. So it was kind of blend of modern and tradition, but all presented in a pretty modern way, if you will, French way, if you will.

46:20So she was a head of her game, if you will, right? That kind of incorporating French technique. So most notable one was tuna tartare and tubu sobekki. So Tuna Tartar, she made this wasabi and cream cheese soy sauce dressing with tuna and seaweed salad and Asian pear and black sesame garnish. It was really like the cream cheese, that richness on lean tuna with wasabi kick. And I think there was a green wasabi tobiko. Oh, right on. Old school stuff. 90s, baby. Baby, and this is like the Philly roll, version of the Philly roll, but doing it in that Korean style with some of the technique there. And then the Asian pear definitely had that kind of cooling sweetness.

47:11It was really nice. The other one was dubusobegi. So she took like this rectangle of tofu, she cut it in half and hollowed out the middle and filled it with diced mushroom and different vegetables and then tied it together with the chive and then deep fried it in panko crust. And I forgot what the dressing was, but it was very innovative and it was really kind of like... Probably like a sweeter, lighter, or maybe like a citrus. I'm just like riffing. I think so. I think like kind of like soy saucy, citrusy. Yuzu, chai, yeah. Yes. But of course you had the traditional sundubu with seafood as well as kalbi.

47:52That was obviously 16-year-old's favorite food. Completely. Absolutely. It's 43-year-olds for me, too. I mean, I love Colby. Come on. I actually remember one cool night. So I was eating at Corey, very hungry, and I was gnawing on the bone. And then I pulled it and the bone fell off and the plate actually shattered into two pieces. I don't know. That's a silly thing. That showed how hungry you were at that point. Yeah. Corey, and did it close like 2010 to go later? I think my mother sold that business in middle of 2000. I think we had it for about 10 years and then we sold the business. I see. Well, you know, I want to hear a little bit about back in Long Island growing up.

48:36What's food like in your household? Are you eating mostly Korean food or are you kind of blending it as a Korean American? This is ironic. So my family was all about food. My father was a huge introvert. So he never asked me, how's school? How are you doing? I love you. Let's go hiking. It was more along the lines of like, is this steak cooked perfect? Is this seasoned well? You know, it was a little bit of a, you know, if I was my mother, I would definitely call him a little bit of an asshole. You know, like so critical. Yes, exactly. So, but that being said, every memory that I had, childhood memory that I have is circles around food.

49:19You know, a vacation that I went, a graduation, a birthday. It was all about the food. That's what I benchmark all of my memories with. So naturally, mom loved cooking. She knew how important the food was to her husband and children. So she cooked her heart out every time. She took many classes. And she was one of those person that just cooks deliciously. You know, she cooks scrambled egg. It was just better than a lot of other scrambled eggs. She had that intuition. Exactly. She had that. And yeah, so I remember my mom took it upon herself to really please the family. So during the weekend, it was a huge breakfast.

50:04And all my friends from Korea always wanted to sleep over at my place because she would prepare this picturesque. This was in Korea in the 80s. she would cook like four different types of cereal a pancake eggs bacon orange juice this western style for breakfast and brunch right she would do that so everyone wanted to sleep over because it was a it was like very picturesque and in 80s in korea that's not necessarily very common and for dinner she would cook like everything from japanese sashimi to temaki hand roll nights to my favorite was pork short ribs that are 돼지 가위 돼지 가위 yeah but like with soy sauce and caramelized onion basically if we can think of it she can make it yeah and she would dig the recipe and the saddest part of this is when she opened Corey that's when everything stopped right she had to focus she's cooking for her job as a son who loved her cooking I am in distraught that Kori should not have happened for my personal eating purposes I mean it's the truth it took away from some of your childhood maybe she wasn't making gamjatang for you at home but you could have it at Kori correct good on there well your career when you entered the restaurant world you clearly just went all in I mean you hustled you worked it with John George and Thomas Keller I just had John George on the show and we talked about Matsugen, which you worked at.

51:42Let me ask you just first, what was that like? John George and I were kind of reflecting on how this was a restaurant ahead of its time. What was your role there? I was the assistant general manager there. It was really ironic because the location of Matsugen is literally across the street from Corrie. Corrie was on Church Street and Lennart and Franklin. Matsugen is on the corner of Church and Lennart. So I remember as a 16-year-old busboy, I remember my mother saying, look at that restaurant. That is this super famous chef, Jean-Georges restaurant. And I remember as a teenager looking into the window inside a closed restaurant, being so awed about how beautiful the restaurant was.

52:31And fast forward, and I was managing that restaurant. It was a very surreal time. Yeah. And let me ask you, that's a really cool memory. And the cemetery is quite amazing. When you worked for John George, you probably picked some things up. But front of house is really where you excelled. I mean, when I met you with Piora and even before that, I believe, you know, consummate front of house guy just understands what hospitality is like. What is John George? What are you learning working through the John George system? I remember my biggest, most vivid memory of Jean-Georges is his humbleness and his vigor and joy for life.

53:13I remember I interviewed with him, not with him, but in his company. So I remember going to his Soho office. I met a couple of people. I interviewed. I got the job. So I was really happy. You know, finally, I get to work for Jean-Georges. You know, Jean-Georges is the holy grail. And as an Asian man, he incorporated Asian flavors and cooking technique into classic French cuisine. So he was like, he is the godfather. Spice market, Vong, two places that come to mind. Really? Yeah. Truly innovative. And now the mix of culture is so prevalent. But without him, we can't really talk about it. Yeah. So finally I get to work for him and I'm super joyous and I'm like over the moon.

54:01I got the job. And I remember I was in Soho. You know, Soho always has this kind of cool vibe, right? And I was in, I think it was a Prada store. Just kind of like, I didn't have any money. I mean, you've always dressed well. Simon, let's get real. You walk in, I mean, the cuts of the suits are quite aggressive in the best way possible. Like you know what you're doing. I try. You're doing some Prada window shopping. You're talking about. Yes. And I was young and I remember like somebody was honking at me, boom, boom, and Simon. And I was like, somebody's calling me? And I look and of course there was Jean Georges in his silver iconic G-Wagon just like waving at me with this vigor.

54:42And I was like, oh my God, that's Jean Georges waving at me. But I think that's Jean Georges. Jean Georges has this kind of pure, almost childish, you know, he's just so pure. And he loves life and he's so humble. And it's not about the money or fame. It's about the joy of working. And I think that joy makes magic. And I learned so much from him in that sense. I love that memory. And it's so true. If you meet him and just if you meet you, you've taken that on. Both you and John George, I mean, your group is growing like John George. And you both like to stick to the fundamentals of running restaurants.

55:22and not being on TV all the time. I know you're on TV once in a while, but like it's about the operations. You enjoy this work, right? Absolutely. I love this so much. And I'm so grateful. We built this culture. We genuinely love what we do. You know, it's not do what you love and you don't work a day in life. It cannot be more true. I'm so grateful because I grew up always wanting to open a restaurant, always loving food. And now I get to be in a position where we ideate and we face, you know, it's not without challenges. But when you have a group of people who genuinely love what they do, challenge becomes more like entertaining puzzle pieces.

56:05Oh, my gosh. You know, like it's a thousand pieces. Let's do 2 ,000 pieces. Let's do 10 ,000 pieces. And more people that are like-minded joins the company. And it's when you have that critical mass. things just cannot be more grateful. It's a great metaphor, the puzzle pieces. And also like you, like sometimes the table gets flipped over and every puzzle piece like leaves the puzzle and you have to pick it back up. Right. And I don't think it's about completing the final piece. Obviously, that's the greatest feeling, right? When you put the final piece, boom, complete. But I really do think the bigger profound joy is about genuinely kind of embracing the difficult times, embracing I don't know where this piece goes.

56:47But when you have these people who are all like-minded, then you genuinely embrace it. And I think restaurant business is such a laborious thing. Day in, day out, it's rainy out. You want to work from home? What do you mean work from home? Yeah, right. Not an option. And weekends, sick days, you just have to show up and do the work. So if you don't really embrace that, I think this business can be very torturous. Great metaphor. I'm just putting a pin in that one. It's quite excellent. All right, so you walk into Tempenny, and you're introduced to the food of Chris Chippelone. And I just want to get your sense, because Tempenny was, to me, that was a really good restaurant.

57:31And that guy clearly had some skills. I mean, I remember walking in, I remember Sifton had written about it, and it's in this weird hotel, and it's like a weird location, but the food was like so outstanding. So then you link with them, and you open up Piora. And that, to me, is a huge moment in New York's history with Korean cooking. Because what you did, you did this boldly modern Korean restaurant that was probably unrecognizable to many. But if you had been to Seoul or if you knew Korean food, you recognized many of the ideas were Korean. Very progressive. I'd say even ahead of its time. Talk about that era of Piora.

58:05And that was really your entry as Simon Kim, the man who runs great Korean restaurants that are not quite the traditional Korean. So Piora was born and the name Piora means to blossom. And I have worked for amazing chefs like Jean-Josier and Thomas Geller, BR Gas Restaurants for Steve Hansen and MGM Grand. So I really worked a lot as a front of the house professional. and it was my time to kind of do my own and I was able to raise, it was very difficult because nobody wants to cut a check to an unproven entrepreneur. But I managed it and it was time to open my own restaurant and what I wanted to do is, what I didn't want to do, I always wanted to do goat.

58:56Goat was always, was the end goal, if you will. What's the idea? Like Korean Steakhouse? Correct. Yeah. basically Korean barbecue everybody loves literally unless you're a vegetarian you love Korean barbecue but my dad was not necessarily a big fan of Korean barbecue he liked a little more of a bougier refined fine dining aspect he was like Ruth Chris guy he wasn't like a Chodongol guy he was or maybe more like he was more like Jean Georges guy got it got it yes so he liked that kind of white tablecloth thing So growing up as his son and growing up as a child who loved Korean barbecue because it's so much fun.

59:38It's rambunctious. You can scream. You can like big music. Everybody's having such a great time. And it's such a stimulation overload. You know, meat is grilling. Music is loud. People are like shouting and people are toasting. And there's this kind of innate vigor that Korean barbecue has. but my growing up in my family household i wanted to incorporate what would be the unique angle and that was code right basically you can have all the fun in the world but you can have the best ingredient in the world the best beef best wine list great caviar like whatever an amazing cocktail and killer speaker and amazing music list and you have the best of both worlds so that was the end goal so how do i get there i wanted to do something that is not very blatantly korean i guess having worked other than korea i never really worked at a korean restaurant yeah and i wanted to really prove it to myself and to the city that i love that i can play non-korean as good as anybody else yeah i think that was my kind of you didn't want to like go and this is an era when Korean cuisine was being placed in a box.

1:00:58And you didn't want to be in that box. You wanted to be respected by Michelin Guide, by the New York Times, by World's 50 Best, essentially. And at that time, when you were opening Piora, there wasn't Korean restaurant on people's radar. I mean, John Chick was probably the only one, but that was a very, I think you were probably around that same time. We opened in 2013. So, yeah. So when you opened in 2013, 14 pior happens responses is you had you had allies people love that i love the restaurant it was tremendous um when do you start thinking about coat and when do you open coat and how do you transition into this like this fully formed korean steakhouse so the idea of coat the idea of korean steakhouse the idea of elevated korean barbecue that i wanted to do was incepted way before Piora.

1:01:53I'm talking about when I was working for Jean-Georges, I talked to my chef, Chef SK, who's my business partner now for Coco Doc. I told him my dream is to open up the sickest Korean barbecue restaurant in the world. So I feel like I've been brewing that for at least nine to 11 years before I opened Goat. I mean, it's, I talked to you about it when you were opening Piora. I remember talking about this idea of the steakhouse and you bring in Victoria James, you start doing panchan in your way, but you're charging more. You're not in Koreatown. You're in more of the Flatiron. You've got this amazing wine list.

1:02:31You've got a vibe that's hip-hop and loud music. You've got a lot of people introduced to Korean cuisine who maybe weren't looking to eat Korean cuisine, but they ended up at Coat. And like the thing takes off. The thing goes berserk. It's a hit. It went nuts. We opened the door and we were packed from day one. And seven years later, we're still packed. God bless us. You know, it really, we struck a chord and it was so difficult to raise capital for that restaurant. Interesting. When I said, I'm going to do a high-end Korean barbecue, people are like, not going to work. Interesting. Literally, I had such a hard time raising capital.

1:03:18And I had my homie, Unu. He's my partner and who helped me fundraise. I named my son after him. Oh, wow. Unu's, anyways, he's my homie. Good friend, yeah. Yeah, he was always there. I remember because I was so distraught, like can't raise capital. I started construction. I'm undercapitalized. I'm stressed, stressed. I remember because I had really low self-esteem because it was just really tough. And I remember Uno sending me L.O. Blacks. Yeah. I'm the man. Oh, yeah, right. So he made me listen to that song every day. And I listened to it just to pick myself up. And it was really, really treacherous because I was underfunded.

1:03:58Construction had started. And I didn't have money to pay for construction. So I had to raise capital as it goes. It was really dark times. And so grateful. The moment we opened the door, it just kind of popped. So how does that happen? Like what's the, how do you articulate this vision? Or is it just word of mouth? You enter the space. Your pancheon is unique. You've got these cuts of meat that are unique. It's not a high-end Korean barbecue. It is something fully different. What I learned from Piora. Piora had a Michelin star, was very successful, critically acclaimed, but I couldn't make any money.

1:04:35And also I felt like I was in somebody else's clothes. serving Italian-American with Korean influence, what I learned is you're in New York City, the fucking capital of the world. If you want to have a fair shot at this, you got to be yourself. Like, you got to be authentic. And then you have a chance. That doesn't get you to win. No. That you have a now chance at getting in the ring and putting your head in the ring. So that was the vision. Gold is kind of precisely who I am. I love I'm a carnivore. I'm Korean and an American. And as much as people shit on Peter Luger's, I love Peter Luger's.

1:05:17Not here. We love Peter Luger's. We love that family. They've been on the podcast. I do not shit on Peter Luger's. Those people who do, they can fuck themselves because the place is really good. I cannot agree more. And also, I feel like Peter Luger, David is a good friend of mine. I respect that restaurant so much. And people who need to shit on other places to elevate themselves, I feel remorse about them. Anyways. You and I got a little reel there. We're going to keep it in, though. We're keeping this edited in because, you know, we got Peter Luger's back. No, totally. And also, it's about nostalgia.

1:05:54It's about sports team. It's not about anything other than I believe in it and I root for him and you can go fuck yourself. No, totally. But goat is authentically me. I'm Korean and I'm American. So what I want to do is take what's best of a Korean barbecue, which is grilling on the table side. You smell it. You hear it. It's a great pastime. It's like nothing else. But what sucks about Korean barbecue can be you smell, you don't want to wear fancy clothes there, wine list, music, hospitality, reservation system, bathroom cleanliness, and the vibe. Because for me, vibe is everything. I don't really mind as long as it's a good version of itself, Japanese, Chinese, Greek, Italian, French, Korean.

1:06:48As long as it's a vibe, I want to go out. I think that's, don't get me wrong, food is so important. Quality of food is like, don't talk to, we can't talk about a restaurant without having quality ingredients, commitment to excellence, and we're in New York City. So once you have that, I think - There's more of those intangibles. There's actually creating a space that you want to order Chateauneuf-du-Pape and pay 450 for the bottle, which is important for your margin, straight talk. And like Korean barbecue, especially with beef prices going up, the margin's different. It's more of a volume game.

1:07:20It is a little bit more unwieldy at times. It's changed a lot since you opened Coat, and plenty have learned from you, I would say. Because that's the thing, right? So it's the same with every culture. In Italian culture, there's trattoria, simple, simple wine list, house wine. And then there is a restaurante, where they have full wine list and tiered multi-course meal. French have a bistro. Bistro di Gostezion, yeah. And then there's a brasserie where it's a little more richer. Same thing with Korean. We just wanted to make Korean barbecue. I love barbecue because it's casual and awesome. But it's a Korean steakhouse.

1:08:03And that was, I think that was the aha moment, right? Like where it's not about barbecue. It's about steakhouse. And I think that allowed clients outing to corporate cards to more refined experiences. People can get it. Like I go to Steakhouse for a purpose. Closing dinners, celebrations, like things that are part of corporate culture. And you acknowledge a huge part about the restaurant industry in New York, which is the corporate card, the entertaining element. And Cote does that really well. I think it's so important as a restaurateur who, I'm a businessman. You know, I'm a restaurateur before anything else, a passionate hospitality professional.

1:08:48Ultimately, running a business in New York and being able to afford increasing cost, labors, and being able to really provide a real professional living to our employees. It's a real thing, right? So the way I look at it is you have to create a business that appeals to everyone. In a sense, the corporate cards, basically pre-tax corporate travel and entertainment budget has a lot bigger check average than a family outing, right? So what ends up happening, we will not be able to serve$74 butcher's feast that has dry-aged beef, American wagyu, kalbi, two stews, all these things. I will not be able to provide it because if you go to American steakhouse, a filet mignon without anything is$80.

1:09:44Is$80. Yeah, totally. So how are we able to serve the entire thing at$74 with all these costs increasing? It's because we kind of subsidize. So the corporate cards who are spending a lot of money basically kind of subsidize so that we can provide$74 to families who are not necessarily drinking Chateau de Du Paps, right? People just want value. So they get to enjoy that. The most value-driven, in my humble opinion, so that we create that pretty robust ecosystem. So everybody kind of wins. And that is the formula that we want to create. Love the candidness, and it's really, really great to hear because it is straight talk about how corporate culture and corporate cards do create a cost structure for you to align with and be able to pass the savings on, so to speak.

1:10:35And I think it makes a lot of sense, especially with your fixed menu pricing, which has followed you at CocoDuck as well. Before we get to that, because I do want to get into your embrace of chicken, which is an exciting time. I interviewed you and Jenny Kwok from Hanyo and Elliot Park of Auto Boy and Auto Mix at the Korea Society. We took the stage February 2020, like February 27th. It was like days from the pandemic. So this is a pre-pandemic conversation. And I asked you about the moment in Korean food and really the excitement around it. And I asked you why. And you had a really great quote.

1:11:13Quote, we are just chill people and want to have fun. Very Simon Kim answer. I want to ask you now in 24, tell me, is the response the same or why is Korean food having a moment right now? Korean food is having a golden age right now. And Korean culture as a whole, Korean drama and how much Netflix just invested billions of dollars into Korea. The content that Korea is making is really robust and exciting. But focusing on Korean food, I think Korean food is pretty well balanced. When I go to Europe, I have a hard time because I need lovage. I need kimchi. I need fermented probiotics and fibers and prebiotics and probiotics and that kind of a balanced diet, right?

1:12:03The yin and the yang, right? So we like to pair meat with vegetables. And we like to eat vegetable with little meat, right? That kind of a balance, I think, is really well-received. And fermentation, the probiotics, and the science behind healthy eating, gut biome, all those things are good. So if you think about it, I think geopolitical thing has a lot of things to do with it as well. So if you look at it, geography-wise, there's Japan that's closest. They adopted Western culture first because they discovered Japan first. and then there's Korea and then there's China. So I think there's this kind of a wave that's moving that direction.

1:12:46And also industry has a lot to do with it. So they all follow this direction. Japan, first they did manufacturing. Toyota, Panasonic, Sony, they made a lot of money in that. And then what they do is they invest that money into financial institutions like Mitsuri Sumitomos and these bank financial institutions start to make a lot of money. That's when the golden age is about to happen because manufacturing, you're still, there's a finite amount of margin, right? There's a labor cost, there's a cogs, but financial institutions start to make money that is a little more. It's exponential. Exactly.

1:13:27It's a higher multiple because that business is quite different than building circuit boards. Exactly. And when that is successful, they start investing into culture, whether that is music, art, restaurants. And I think that's when the golden age kind of happens because people can fund it. At the end of the day, you can have the best chefs and best restaurateurs, but without funding, you're kind of at moot. So I think that's kind of the phase. So Korea went through that phase. Hyundai, Samsung, and Korean banks kind of flourished. And now they're investing into this culture. And also what really helped was China.

1:14:09So Cold War between China and United States, like Japan, Korea, and then it was supposed to kind of move into this China wave, but China wave got shut. So in my humble opinion, Korea kind of got like, it stopped in Korea. So it's still there. And I'll also add, and we write about this in Korea World, and we're dedicating this week to a lot of the topics, in the book, I'd say a government that was aggressively investing in the arts and investing in building the culture and the soft power, I guess people at Monaco would say, soft power was important. And the Korean Food Foundation was one that I worked with directly in 2008.

1:14:54That was investment in food. And I think they made some good decisions. They made some less good decisions. But to have a government invest in culture as a way of bringing dollars into Korea and exposing the world to Korean culture was a wise investment, too. Absolutely. I think government has took a great stance and current government of President Yoon and his first wife, first lady, definitely is investing a lot into Korean culture. And I think it's definitely seeing a huge, huge boom. And I'm very grateful Goat got designated as an excellent restaurant, foreign restaurant outside of Korea. So I think those kind of recognition definitely gives us, the international players, kind of a little boost of confidence and appreciation from the motherland, which is so important because my parents are there.

1:15:55You know, when I get written up in New York Times, that's a great thing. But when I get written up in Korean newspaper, my parents are so delighted. It's actually pretty funny. I love to hear that. And it's cool that you talk about the geopolitics. I think you've really said some smart things and it's sometimes hard to weave politics and food together. But thank you for doing that, Simon. Yeah, my pleasure. So there's definitely that geopolitical kind of a geographical influence. But also, if you look at more qualitatively, Korea has been in wars, invasions, colonization. We went through a lot of difficult times.

1:16:33Hardships, to say the least. Authoritarian governments. authoritarian government student murder I mean like crazy stuff like that Gwangju massacre which I read about in Korea World is a big terrible part in Korean history and trauma traumatic exactly and during imperialism and dictatorship a culture cannot flourish right culture is one of the most beautiful thing right it's like flower it only blossoms when everything goes right and it and even if it It doesn't like there's basically Koreans, we call it Han, this generational angst, right? Because we wanted to, our culture to flourish, but it's very difficult when we're getting bombed, we're getting invaded.

1:17:21And there's a force that's trying to weed out our culture like purposefully. So I think we have this resilience and that built up desire to flourish. And finally, we've had this peace after the Korean War. And now that desire to flourish is what we're seeing. And this is our chance. This is our shot. And everybody's coming together to flourish our flower more beautifully. I love it. More metaphors. You're just nailing these metaphors. And I just want to add quickly, the scale of it all needs to be addressed. And I mentioned as much as I can. It's a country of 50 million people. Talk about the way 50 million people inspire and influence global economies, global culture.

1:18:07I mean, it's amazing to think about a culture that has had a war in its recent history, colonization in its recent history. And the adversity of the Koreans have overcome and not just overcome, have won and thrived. Big part of the story here. Absolutely. Let's talk about chicken. What a segue. I mean, I feel like we could go in many directions. I wonder how did you realize that fried chicken was something that you wanted to take on and kind of rethink and recalibrate? Because, you know, what you're doing at Cocoa Duck is really interesting as an operator. The cost structure we'll get into. Culinary.

1:18:52I mean, you're making the McNuggets of our dreams. I mean, let's be honest. That's what they are. But you're doing some real cool things with a food that, like, Americans know. The idea came pretty simple. So after goat, David Shim, Chef SK, we finished work. We're like, let's go eat because we're always hungry after a restaurant job. So we wanted to go out. We go to K-Town. We love fried chicken, Korean fried chicken with beer. It's just such a fun thing, especially after handling so much beef every day. So we're always looking for some alternative to beef, sushi, chicken, pork, are some of the things that we really enjoyed.

1:19:31But I'm also my father's son. So I'm pretty critical about what I put into my body. I can enjoy anything, but like to consistently get into it, I need high quality ingredients, right? Because as much as I love Popeye's, I love just diving into that carnal joy, you know, the buttered biscuit. Oh my God, it's the best biscuit in the world, man. Oh my God, it's so good. I wonder what's in it though. Yeah, we don't need to go there. But see, exactly. But like, we don't need to go there, but I kind of do care, right? I have two children and I love this joy of sharing food. I think that is the most joyful time for me.

1:20:15Like being able to share food with your loved ones. It's literally the biggest and only joy that I can really think of, you know? So if that is the case, I can't do that with food. That is actively bad for you. that animal was raised with ill intent to raise faster, unhealthy, doesn't matter. You create ingredients and oils, seed oils that are known to be inflammatory. GMO'd flowers. These things are just intentionally bad. And I just couldn't find alternative to that's really joyful too, because it's not about this healthy food. It's about this joy of enjoying amazing fried chicken, but that also happens to not have all this negative quality to it.

1:21:04And I couldn't find that. So we did it ourselves. Yeah, I mean, the culinary invention at Cocoa Duck. And like, you know, the menu itself is fixed. You can do add-ons, same ideas as coat. You can have a really nice bottle. You can have a bunch of cocktails. But you can also get in there and in and out in an affordable way, I'd say. Man, I want to also talk about that authentic storytelling aspect. It's so important for me to look at something and be able to tell its story in an authentic way. Because it's about that, right? Restaurant is a story. Without the story, it's an eating and drinking establishment.

1:21:39Yeah, it's nourishment. That's it. Right. And what we want is create a brand. And what made sense was, so I always thought if everybody loves chicken, like Americans love chicken. And if you look at the meat consumption per capita, chicken has been skyrocketing like an endivia stock price. We see it with the recipes too. Recipe search is huge for chicken, obviously. Right. For the past 60 years, it never dipped. Whereas beef, fish, pork, they all have been kind of up and down. But chicken has been soaring up. So I think that was a validating thing. But it was just not about business. It was also about, because I'm, once again, I'm Korean and American.

1:22:22And when I looked into fried chicken, did you know, Matt, Korea has the highest number of fried chicken restaurant per capita in the world? Simon, yes, I did know that. I know you did. Because I just went to Mom's Touch Lab in Songsu. Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah. If anyone knew, Matt knew. No, but thank you for bringing up that point. It's great. So, and I wonder why though, right? If you think about it, Koreans didn't eat fried chicken until Korean War. Yeah. So this was a complete full circle. So GIs, the soldiers during Korean War brought, because Koreans love to boil chicken and drink the soup.

1:23:10It's good because Korea was a developing country. So how can I cook one chicken and share it with the entire family? Samgyejang. Exactly. Make a soup so you can all drink the soup and get satiation and enjoy a little bit of meat, if you will. But when the U.S. Army came to Korea during Korean War, the GIs brought fried chicken. They're like, you know what? Let's fry chicken the way Americans do it. So Americans brought fried chicken, culture fried chicken to Korea. We developed it. We fell in love. And now we have the highest number of fried chicken restaurant per capita in Korea. So, and there's a culture, mu, you know, the pickled radish.

1:23:53So freaking good with fried chicken. Oh, it's the perfect. I mean, it's sweet to just the right level. And then it has sour at the low note, if we're talking about like music. It's like high note is sweet, low note is sour. And the crunchiness of it, the cold temperature, the texture. It's almost familiar because fried chicken is kind of crispy and the mu is crispy. but it's watery, kind of like the sweet vinegar washes off the residual fat that the chicken had. So you can eat more chicken. Everyone knows you need a pickle with a fried chicken sandwich. So, I mean, truly, it's the Korean version of the pickle.

1:24:27And Koreans kind of added their own flavor into what they adopted from America. So what I wanted to do is bring that and marry that with American fried chicken and create, once again, just like goat. it's a New York moment, right? It's basically, it's pretty complex, but it's pretty simple. Like Americans bring it to Korea. I bring it back from Korea to America with addition of our own flavors. Let's talk about the concept. I mean, walk us through the way it works. I'm just, I went there recently and I'll tell you about my meal, but people were lining up. Yeah. Like lining up before the, and everyone had a reservation.

1:25:07I know. People were lining up to even like with reservations. So that's a nice sign. Yes, so we have actually sittings in the front. We have about 20-something seats in the front that we don't pick reservations for. Oh, right, and those are the walk-ins. As well as, I believe, how many seats do I have at the bar? 18 seats at the bar. So we have about 38 seats that first come, first serve. And there's nothing that I'm more grateful for than people lining up. You know, it's like such a surreal moment. I saw on Instagram that your bartenders who were great by the way I ate at the bar solo. It was really fun.

1:25:41They brought out drinks for the people waiting in line. I thought that was a nice touch. Good hospitality. That's your style. Once again, I'm so grateful for my team. I don't ask them to do that. They just take it upon themselves. It's a culture. It's like John George. Back to your original days. It's taking care of it. So how am I dining at Cocoa Dog? Because I think it's, to the general consumer, it's like a little bit of a mystery. So it's such a new restaurant. Yeah. So dining at Cocoa Dog, number one, is going to be a hell of a good time. I think that's the most important thing. Like killer music.

1:26:13I got amazing track. I work with this guy named Michelangelo. He puts together our music list. Badass. Yeah. I mean, it's like definitely some boom bap from the 90s. I think you got like, you know, Black Moon playing. You've got some Q-Tip playing. You've got some of these, you know, Gangstar playing. Definitely a little bit of that thread, but then some R &B as well. Yes. So even before we talk about food, there's amazing track, amazing speaker. And also David Rockwell did a killer job. Yeah. Love the design there. it's kind of hard to believe that's a fried chicken restaurant. It sinks in the front, which I think is brilliant.

1:26:45I haven't seen that in a chicken restaurant in the States. I've seen that in Korea, but you know, you get your hands a little sticky. Yes. You got to have a sink. I don't know. I think there's something really sexy about everyone having clean hands. I would say sanitary more than sexy. That's the S word I would use, but I would say both of them are pretty. I think sanitary is kind of sexy. that's like something that Cuomo said during the pandemic I'm just joking sanitary is sexy is that right? I'm fucking right but I feel you but I like this idea that you can actually wash your hands when you're leaving no because as a restaurateur I shake so many hands and when I shake hands and the hand is really clammy it feels a little weird whereas at CocoDoc everyone's hands is really nice and fresh Yeah, yeah, right on.

1:27:36There's something really cool about that. Now, back to food. So at Gokodak, just like Coat, so we have this, at Coat, we have this thing called butcher's feast. $74. It's a very, very comprehensive menu that has basically appetizer, entree, savory meal and their 식사. Yeah. Ends with dessert, right? At Gokodak, we have this thing called the bucket list. the bucket list consists of a little shot like warm shot glass full of chicken consomme kind of shows you the quality of chicken that we're using it's highlighted a little bit with hongsam which is red ginseng to give you a little bit of boost of energy if you will and then the table gets studded with banchan, four different pickled stuff we have radish, we have celery we have kimchi, like cabbage kimchi, as well as a scallion salad.

1:28:38And then the first array arrives, which is OG, non-sauced, gluten-free, pasteurized bird, fried chicken that is delicious in a bucket. And once you are kind of gnawing on that, almost halfway done, the second batch arrives, which is soy sauce glazed, soy garlic glazed, or gochujang glaze. You get to choose one. And then as you're finishing that, we give you this cold, wild perilla noodle with capellini noodles. Which I saw a lot in Korea in the past two or three years. It's a really, really cool idea that you're bringing here. Ho-chuk-ban is a great perilla noodle cold and I love that you're doing that.

1:29:20And we do it with Italian capellini noodles. And also when you're eating this fried chicken after fried chicken, you get a little fatigued with fried food. But this cold noodle kind of gives you this refreshing, savory, not yet dessert, savory kind of refreshment. So you get that rejuvenation from the fatigue of eating fried chicken. And then when you finish that, we give you frozen yogurt. Yeah, love that. Kind of a la Pinkberry. Yeah, it's like your version of naengmyeon. Doing the noodle naengmyeon is, I think, great, but not for everyone. But doing a cold refresh on the savory side and then going into the really smart.

1:29:57So by the time you finish that frozen yogurt with a blueberry syrup, you're kind of like ready for round two. So if you're going out, if you have another thing after the dinner, you feel really plucked and really refreshed. And the best part, it's$38. Yeah, I'm glad you said that. The entire thing. I'm glad you said that because the fixed pricing is smart. And same idea, like you're getting, you can definitely ball out if you want, right? There's ways to do that. 1 ,000%. And in Korea, we do chimek, which is chicken and beer. What we do at Cocoduck is chi sham, which is chicken and champagne. So Victoria James, you know her, the badass.

1:30:40She basically put together literally the largest champagne list in America. Wow. So I believe we have over 500 labels now. So if you're looking for, if you want to go, if you want to take us for a ride, we can go. Are you going up to Ream? Are you guys going to do like a coconut cream? You do a little pop up up in Champagne? Hey, why not? Right. Once again, everybody loves fried chicken. So I feel like with fried chicken, I can go anywhere and please people. Last question before we get to our last section. I know you have expansion plans, but like dig deep for this answer. What, Simon, is the concept, the Korean concept, the Simon Kim concept of your dreams?

1:31:16What is that restaurant that you will one day do maybe in 10 years? But what is the dream? Honestly, I'm so grateful that I'm living my dream. I feel okay. Yeah, because I feel like coat and coconut are my dreams. And now I'm living that. So doing that. But I think there's endless things that I want to do. I feel like there's a seafood concept I want to do. I think you know what I'm talking about. I think which is lacking in New York. hue, right? Yeah, man. Because we all know about sushi and sashimi, but I think there's a huge discovery to be had for the seafood. Can I just jump in about hue?

1:31:56I feel it's such a cool idea and concept that is challenging for Americans because of chojang. Right. Because of the red, you know, the crimson sauce with vinegar. I love it. I mean, Huni did a great hue at Hanjeon. That was amazing. I'd love to see you rise to that occasion because I feel Hawaii has not had its moment in New York yet. On This Is Taste, we asked guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid-fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? Yes. The best fruit? Watermelon. The worst vegetable? Eggplant. Why? It just doesn't jive with me. I mean, eggplant, parm, I love that.

1:32:38But other than that, eggplant is just kind of like... Skin stuff. Yeah. It's a tough hang. Agreefully, the best dessert. Pavlova or baklava? We're having a pavlova moment in America right now. I love pavlova. It's good when it's good. Because it's so light with meringue. It's like low in calories, but the bang for the buck is like the amount of pleasure. It's elegant. It's kind of like - It looks dope. It looks beautiful. Like passion fruit pavlova. I mean, it just sounds so elegant and nice. I had a really good one at Major Domo a couple of weeks ago. It was nice. That's cool. Your favorite American fast food chain?

1:33:14Shake Shack or In-N-Out. That's like left brain, right brain. I mean, how do you, that's like the most diplomatic answer. See, I like that because I am and kind of guy. If somebody asks me this or that, dude, why choose? You know, I live in America where I kind of have it all. Into it. Favorite cookbook of all time? Nobu's original cookbook. I don't know it. So cool. Yeah, I think it was published in the early 90s. I think that was my first experience holding a cookbook. And I remember it being, as a teenager, reading that book, how the pictures, how intuitive and how easy to understand. I think I can make that miso cut from that moment.

1:34:04That's incredible that you say that dish. I love that dish. I love that dish. I mean, that dish has been copied. I love it. It's been copied like one million times. It's like Pavlova. Once you make it, like it's a classic. I love it. Okay, a favorite New York City restaurant that you do not own or operate? Don Angie. Cool. Yeah. Cool answer. I love Scott's sourdough pasta with chicken and olive. I feel like I have, it's such a simple dish, you know, it's not like fancy, fancy food, but I vividly remember that simple pleasure of eating that pasta, the fluffy dough with chicken perfectly cooked olive yeah that was that was a moment favorite Los Angeles restaurant LA to me is Koreatown right because I can't just there's so many great restaurants but I can't escape Koreatown because I long it there's a restaurant called Sungbukdong oh my gosh Sungbukdong is a jam yeah have you been to Youngmani do you know that spot I have not been to Youngmani I know the spot but yeah Sungbukdong good shit man yeah yeah LA expansion, it's got to be on your horizon.

1:35:11I do think I definitely want to be there, but when and how, we shall see. You pick up those 310 phone calls when you get those. 100%. I'm ready. Call me later. Exactly. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food? I like Busan. Busan is the second city of Seoul. It's port city. The seafood there, the Hue, it's epic. But everything, even galbi, there's haeundae amsogalbi, which is fantastic, that's going through renovation. Bobby from Yoon's in New York, that's his family business. I'm excited for that renovation. But jakalchi sijang is the big market there. Yeah, there's restaurants upstairs, you get the fish down, you go up there, catch it.

1:36:01And Busan has this kind of Miami vibe. Interesting. People are a little more like, they got gold chains. Yeah. You know, people are just a little more animated. Port Town. I love Port Town. Big film festival there. I mean, it has artistic community. Busan is beautiful, too. It's around the ocean. Seoul, just like first cities. Like even New York, Madrid compared to Barcelona, you know? I think Barcelona has a little more romance, right? There's a little more romance. Like the first city is always like go, go, go, go. Whereas Busan has this kind of like beach town. It's like South Beach. It's fun.

1:36:38Nightlife is fun. the food stalls and Hue Chip. Yeah. It's just good times. Yeah, Hue Chip is definitely more of a party town. Busan and, of course, Tokyo. Love those choices. Last question, your favorite sandwich. My favorite sandwich. I think it's, I grew up in Long Island, so I love Long Island Deli. It's like a roll peppered turkey, Swiss cheese, lettuce, tomato, honey mustard. Plot twist. I like that. Yeah. I like honey mustard a lot. Me too. What kind of roll? Just like a poppy seats. Poppy roll. Yeah. Making me hungry. I love it. What a great chat. Thank you, Simon Kim, for joining This Is Taste.

1:37:22Matt, much, much love, and thanks for having me.

1:37:29This Is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.