516: Your Holiday Salmon Came From Somewhere with Alaska Fisherman Hannah Heimbuch

0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. And I mean, I think if you live close to a waterfront and you have that opportunity to go buy a fresh fish from a fisherman, that's awesome. But a lot of us don't have that option. So to me, fresh means that it was preserved and properly handled as close to its peak freshness as possible. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rothbard.

0:59Today is Christmas, and chances are that in the next week, you will enjoy seafood of all kinds. Freshly shucked oysters, line-caught halibut, or perhaps some smoked salmon stacked atop a bagel. We love seafood to cook at home and to order at restaurants, but do we recognize the people who bring this incredible product to our fish markets and whole foods? Enter Hannah Heimbach, an Alaskan salmon fisherman with quite the story to tell. In this conversation, we find out about how she works tirelessly during the summer salmon run and how wild-caught Alaskan seafood has quite the journey to our ovens and grills.

1:37I hope you enjoy this conversation.

1:48Hannah Heimbuck, it's great to speak with you. How are you today in Alaska? I am doing fabulous. We are actually in the middle of our very first snowfall today, so we're headed right into winter season. So what's winter like when you're not fishing, or if you're fishing, it's probably doing less of it. What's it like up there? So I don't fish in the wintertime. I live in another part of Alaska called Palmer in the Matanuska Valley. And it's cold here. It's chilly. We had a two-week stretch last year that was 35 below for two weeks straight. Oh, my goodness. So when you are fishing, and tell us a little bit about when the season is, where are you located at in kind of a geographical sense in Alaska?

2:29Yeah, so I'm a commercial salmon fisherman. and my wife and I own and operate a fishing operation on Kodiak Island. So that's a large island in the middle of the Gulf of Alaska. And we work on a super remote part of that island even, actually. So we're off on the edge of the world. Man, it's beautiful there, I would think, right? It's pretty spectacular. Oh yeah, it's gorgeous. We're about 120 miles from any main town. We neighbor a small Alaska native village called Akiak, but otherwise it is us and the whales and the cliffs and not much else until you hit Hawaii. Wow. So let's jump right in and tell me about how you learned the ropes for commercial fishing in Alaska.

3:15Well, I was born into it. That part was somewhat easy on me. My grandparents were teachers and then fished in the summertime. So my dad and his three brothers and my mom, they were all lifelong fishermen as well. So my brother and I grew up on our dad's boats first, you know, primarily in the way, and then eventually actually crewing and learning how to fish. We fished with our dad for several years, a couple of different places around the state. And then my younger brother and I actually ran a boat together for several seasons and really kind of played at the boundaries of co-captaining as siblings, which is super fun.

3:49But then, you know, I started fishing with other people just to try out different areas and finally ended up on the salmon operation on Kodiak Island and just sort of fell in love with the landscape and the people and the fish there. My wife has a similar story. She grew up fishing salmon with her family in Alaska as well. So we've just kind of continued the dream that our grandparents and parents started. That's amazing. And I would imagine over the course of your education, you've seen a lot and you've heard a lot. And I would like to get a sense just initially, what is like one or two elements that maybe us as consumers of wild Alaska salmon, what don't we realize about this product that is so special?

4:33Well, I can definitely lean into the personal part of that. And that's that I would say by and large, the people that harvest salmon and seafood in general, they're doing it as more than a livelihood. This comes with challenges, right? It can be dangerous, It can be cold and difficult and kind of challenges come up day to day as you're on the water. But we're all really committed to this space, this marine ecosystem, this landscape that we get to be an intrinsic part of as harvesters, as food providers for our families, for our communities, and then people all over the rest of the country as well.

5:08So I think kind of an interesting thing that consumers might not realize is the depth of connection and commitment that we have to the seafood that we're producing. Well, I got to witness that firsthand when I visited in the summer of 2015. I was near Juneau and I was on boats and I went to a large processing plant and it really changed my life in many ways. I, of course, liked salmon growing up, big locks fan here. But honestly, I never understood what wild Alaska was like and what it all meant and how preservation and conservation is built into the state constitution and all that great stuff.

5:44But I want to know, has anything changed since I was there in 2015? Yeah, I mean, I think that our waterfronts are undergoing some pretty interesting changes. You know, one of the things that we've been kind of challenged with, especially this season, has been some of our processing plants either consolidating or closing. And those changes are really rooted in some of the economic challenges in the global seafood market, increased operating costs. So I think that on working waterfronts, we're kind of like revisioning how do our communities and our waterfront stay resilient through those kind of economic ups and downs, right?

6:23Because it's a natural resource based on a wild ecosystem and we've got to be able to adapt to what comes our way. So those are the changes that we're kind of working with now as a fleet and industry. Yeah, I was thinking exactly that when I was like, the cost of goods is increasing globally and really with our foodways. In America, we certainly are seeing it as an end user at the grocery store, what we pay for it. And I guess this leads slightly into my question, how did the last season go and were you getting the prices that you felt were fair or is it still a very big challenge? Yeah, so salmon prices, the last two seasons have been down pretty far.

7:01And again, like some of those natural operating costs going up for a lot of different reasons. So the price is still a little bit down, but my fleet had a particularly interesting summer, I guess. So again, we're on a super remote part of Kodiak Island out in the Gulf of Alaska. And our processor, we only have one buyer in that area, which again is 120 miles from any town, no roads, etc. So we're on our own out there on the rock. And our processor decided they couldn't afford to pick up our fleet that summer. So for the first time in 100 years, this area didn't have a dedicated processor that was planning to buy their fish.

7:40So that put kind of our 30 fishing families that all operate in this area in a really tough position. We completely rely on the processor to stockpile fuel for our camps and our boats, to bring us ice to ice our fish, and then, of course, to get our fish back to market. it. But this was ended up being kind of an exercise in resilience and adaptation, actually, that started out really stressful and it ended up in a very hopeful place. We ended up making a new partnership with Silver Bay Seafoods, another large processor in Alaska. It's a fisherman-owned processor. They really went above and beyond to say like, yes, we will buy your fish this year and make it work.

8:20We had to move all of our own supplies and fuel to town. I had some of my crab fisherman buddies who were checking their pots around the island to bring down our supplies and our fuel when they were passing by. I kept them stocked in sourdough bread and cookies when I could. I mean, you gotta, it's a trade economy at that point, right? You gotta make it work. And then, you know, we installed solar panels at our camp to reduce our fuel consumption. So, and then, you know, the fish showed up and we were ready. It was kind of miraculous. And our late run was particularly strong. We had these really big, bright, gorgeous salmon, and it just renewed our hope and our resolve to keep going and keep problem solving as a community.

9:01I would imagine that pivot was done under a lot of pressure and pretty quickly. Yes, very quickly, like, you know, eight weeks to go until salmon showed up. So it was really tough, but at the same time, it showed the commitment of these fishing families to one another, to their community and to ensuring that this food continues to come into the community. I think it's, it's, it's not going away anytime soon, right? It's a healthy, wild, incredible food. And we're not going fishing, I guess, isn't an option for us. Of course not. Yeah. Take us out to your boat. I'd like to get to give our listeners a sense of, of how you, you fish and what's the style of fishing you're doing.

9:45Totally. So our gear type is called set netting or gill netting. and we set net for salmon. Set net means that we actually live in a cabin on the beach, and then we go out in small skiffs a couple times a day to check our nets. Our nets are probably like a 10, 15-minute skiff ride away from where we're staying in our field camp. Our nets are anchored to reef rocks out in the bay. And again, this is the North Pacific, so we get whatever weather it's going to throw at us that day. And the nets then stretch out toward open water, and they're anchored on the other end. And so we get to catch salmon as they're swimming by and headed to their home streams in the summer season.

10:20So we'll go out a couple times a day to check nets. Fish go directly into bins with slush ice, so immediately getting that temperature down. And then later that day, we deliver them to a larger boat to bring them to town for processing. So it's this kind of wild cycle that takes place out in these isolated remote places, but at the same time also a really well-oiled machine and network of moving fish around. So how do you actually get the nets and collect the fish and actually pull and crank the nets up into these larger boats? I mean, that process, it's got to be really violent and really physical to get these fish in place really quickly.

11:00It is super physical. So set netting is almost entirely physical. You don't use some of the equipment that you might see in pictures or videos of other, you know, more boat based fishing. So setting and pulling in nets, that's just all us by hand. And the nets are about a quarter mile long, a little less than that. and then when we're picking fish so we go out and we put the net into the skiff and then pull ourselves along it so the net stays in the water but we just pull ourselves along the length of it pull the fish out by hand and then directly into the fish hold but yeah it's a totally hands on job.

11:39Wait wait wait you are pulling the fish from their corral and the nets by hand and then dropping them into your ice slush yes Wow. That's incredible. I think I saw some skein fishing. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. Saners. Yeah. And so they have larger nets that they pull in using the boat and another skiff, whereas we have nets that are stationary in the water. They're anchored on each side, and then we just pull ourselves along them. Every single beach has its own technique and way of doing things and setting, like I said, is labor intensive, but you also, it's also a great livelihood.

12:19You have to, you have to kind of be a jack of all trades. Like you've got to be able to build and mend your gear. You have to be able to maintain outboards and other vessel components. We have to produce all our own power, water and heat at camp. So we need to be this self-contained field unit, be electricians and all kinds of other things. Is that just the way you do it? Or is that like a more efficient way? Is it better for the fish? I'm really curious because this sounds like you're really, really laboring to get the fish in. So I think it's more of a life choice, I guess. There's so many different ways that people catch salmon in Alaska or a couple different main ones.

12:54There's set gill netting like we do. There's drifting like you'll see in Bristol Bay on those smaller boats. I mean, there's seining with the larger boats. And I chose set netting because I love going back to the beach and my little cabin on the cliff there at the end of every day and then going out in small boats. It's kind of a lifestyle choice. Well, it sounds like you've got a nice cabin and I'm sure it's quite warm and toasty in there. So that's probably a nice lifestyle choice. Exactly. It's where you keep the sourdough going. That's one of the perks. Oh, we got to swap recipes. I love to hear this.

13:30Let me ask you and zoom out a bit about the types of wild Alaskan salmon you are catching. And really, I think a lot of our listeners might not realize that there's a wild species. And then, of course, there's North Atlantic salmon. And then there's farmed salmon, which is a very different product. How do you describe the difference? Well, I don't know a ton about farmed salmon. You actually can't even legally farm salmon in Alaska. But I can describe wild salmon. And I really can tell those in the store when I'm looking at them by, number one, that vibrant color. There's five different salmon species that are wild Pacific salmon.

14:08Kings or Chinook, sockeye or red salmon, coho or silver salmon, pinks, and then kita. And they're all kind of different shades of pink to orange, but they're really vibrant because they feed on this wild krill and other plankton that are giving them that beautiful natural coloration. Wild salmon also isn't going to have as much of the kind of fatty lines that farmed salmon does. So you can really kind of tell the difference just by looking at the filet. Yeah, I think I'll observe a little further and say, you know, the wild salmon I tasted up in Alaska and what I buy in my Whole Foods and my grocery store is leaner, more muscular, and has more flavor for me.

14:51And, you know, farmed salmon, I'm not going to be on the, I'm not like anti-farming salmon. I think it's great for a lot of reasons, but it's a little fattier. And, you know, for some people, that's a flavor profile that works. But I think with a good wild, you're getting a lot more texture and flavor. Exactly. And that's kind of my favorite part about wild salmon is that texture. There's like this plump firmness to it. Like is it more muscular? Whatever it is that makes it just really tasty. Yeah. So how do you think about the word fresh? You know, salmon, as you're describing, is a seasonal food.

15:28It's caught at a very specific time, thrown onto ice immediately. and then shipped around the world. And I think we think about this is like a fresh day. This is the day boat catch. And we have these things, these ideas baked into our lexicon. But when it comes down to it, this is frozen fish. But I think there's some education and love for you to say something about how you think about fresh fish. Oh, definitely. And I mean, I think if you live close to a waterfront and you have that opportunity to go buy a fresh fish from a fisherman, that's awesome. But a lot of us don't have that option. So to me, fresh means that it was preserved and properly handled as close to its peak freshness as possible.

16:12All of the salmon I eat throughout the year has been previously frozen or canned or smoked, whatever kind of way I'm approaching it. And that's a good thing. That preserves that quality that was there when it was pulled out of the water. So to me, fresh means well cared for when it's then ready to be opened and included in your meal. You know, I'll add finding a great fish store monger who has the ability to take a frozen fish and defrost it in a way that preserves that peak freshness. That's a skill. And I feel like we maybe undersell why it's important to go to a great seafood seller. What are your thoughts on the way your salmon is sold in stores?

16:57Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. You can really tell when somebody knows how to handle fish, you know, that it's been thawed properly and in the right temperature and then displayed properly. I think the things you can look for is that the fillets are moist. They're not dried out or anything, that that color is still really vibrant, and then that there's not gaping or discoloration. If you have those things, that tells you that that fillet has been actually taken care of, not only when it was caught and processed, but then there in the store as well. Yeah, I think that's a great tip. And just looking at the color and making sure it's consistent and those gaps aren't there.

17:34How do you think about fish eggs, salmon eggs, ikora, we call it, you know, in Japanese restaurants, it's highly coveted. And I was able to go to a processor and try some ikora that had just been harvested. Are you in that world at all? I mean, as a tourist, I would say I love I love fish roe of all kinds. I have not been brave enough to prepare it myself from from the fish that we harvest. But I would love to learn. Yeah, it was a real special. I'm glad you bring that up because watching the way that the fish eggs are brined and the way that brine is is prepared is part of the process. But I mean, there's such a demand for fish roe around the world.

18:15Oh, absolutely. Well, and even in my little community, when I was younger and I was direct marketing fish, I would be down near the dock, you know, gutting and preparing fish to be delivered to customers. And some of the local grannies would always come down and scoop up everybody's eggs that they weren't going to take home so that they could go brine them and smoke them, which I thought was just awesome. Oh, I love if you can get your hands on some Alaskan row that's been smoked. Oh, nothing better. I love salmon row. It's delicious. How do you think about the term sustainability? I mean, it's a word we throw around a lot, but I think in Alaska, it has a different meaning.

18:54When I was in Alaska, I learned about how sustainability is built into the state constitution. And how do youth as a community ensure that the waters are not overfished? Absolutely. I mean, that's basically one of the most important cornerstones of Alaska fishing. When I'm not fishing, my whole world is dedicated to communicating and advocating for sustainable fisheries management. And a lot of my fellow fishermen do the same thing. So Alaska is huge, right? It supplies like 60 percent of the country's wild seafood. It's an amazing producer. But that means that we have a lot of big systems to watch, making sure that while we're harvesting large amounts, we also are working in concert with the ecosystem and being responsible.

19:44And I think that the biggest thing I've learned about sustainability is that, to use a cliche, it's the journey, not a destination, right? It's a constant commitment to understanding and adapting to our environment. That means ongoing science, ongoing research, and always assessing and adjusting, responding to those wild stocks. So we have, like you said, we have the state constitution that mandates responsible fisheries management. There are federal laws that do similar things that put these regulatory processes in place that give us that ability to constantly review the science, review what's going on in the ecosystem, and make sure that what we're doing is responsible.

20:26I've read news articles about how Russia plays a role in the salmon industry and the global pricing. And I'd love to get some education about this because, you know, when you're neighboring a country that's having a war and maybe those waters that you share are not being as regulated, how does that play into your day to day as a fisherman? I mean, surprisingly, it's very impactful, right? It feels like a world away and it is, but global competition in seafood really impacts us. Seafood is, I think, one of the largest traded commodities on the planet. So this stuff really moves around. And Russia in recent years has put a lot of pollock and a lot of salmon on the marketplace.

21:12Their fishery is highly government subsidized. So even though there's increased operating costs globally for a lot of these things, they've really been able to still produce and put a large amount on the market. Now, in the US, we actually have a ban on importing Russian seafood, but import monitoring is not a science. So it still ends up in stores. So it's just an interesting part of even for a small boat fisherman like myself, like the price I get per pound of salmon definitely depends on this competition and push and pull from other countries. Yeah, it's a nuanced response. And I appreciate it because I think it's challenging in a podcast to go over all the geopolitics here.

21:52But it just seems that Russia is trying to play it like a volume game. And if the fishermen are being subsidized, they're just trying to throw as much against the wall as possible. That's my read. I mean, that's my not being a geopolitical expert, but that is also my read as well, that it's the huge volumes that are coming onto the market really kind of depress what the market can then pay for the domestic products that Alaska is producing. Yeah, this is why I think it's really key to when you're thinking about these choices at your local Whole Foods or wherever you buy seafood. When you see wild Alaskan, it means it's wild Alaskan.

22:33And even if it's a few dollars extra, you know, it has a real meaningful impact on fishermen in Alaska. Yeah, that's right. When you pick up Alaska seafood and you see that Alaska brand, you know that you're buying from American small businesses and food producers, people that are really committed to the environment and the resources that they're benefiting from. And I think it's really important to know where your food comes from and that it's coming from folks that really take good care of it. Yeah, I like that. I mean, wild Alaskan is more expensive, generally speaking, and the price may not be for everyone, but I feel like, how do you respond when people say salmon is too expensive?

23:13Well, I would say that the majority of salmon that I eat through the year is actually canned salmon. And we can it ourselves at home. Obviously, we're fishermen. But canned salmon in the store is actually pretty affordable. You can find it in the canned aisle alongside tuna fish and other things like that. I love that for salads and sandwiches and things. And so I do think that there are products where that nutritious wild food is actually fairly accessible. But you're right, a lot of it, if you're buying from a fresh market or some of the higher end places or restaurants, it is going to be more expensive.

23:48But I like to think that there are options for everybody out there. I love that you bring up Can Sam. We've written about it on Taste. My former co-host, Annie Hazel, wrote a terrific book about tinned fish and has a lot to say about canned salmon and how it's so exciting to cook with. And this leads to my big questions here is how are you cooking salmon, either canned or of course, you get quite a bit of fresh salmon during your run. That must be a beautiful time. Absolutely. I will say most of what we eat is preserved the rest of the year. We're so focused on fishing in the summertime, but it's really hard to replace like a fish that you pulled out of the net, put on the grill and then put on top of some rice.

24:28It's hard to beat that experience. But the rest of the year, we eat salmon so many different ways. Canned, I love to mix it up like salmon salad with celery and cucumbers and peppers and put it on. Sourdough bread, of course, I have to mention sourdough again. One of my other favorite recipes is I love to do a spicy rice bowl with barley rice because I like that crunch, whatever veggies happen to be in the fridge. And then the kicker is this kelp chili crisp that I've been using that I absolutely love. Then I think one of my other favorites, which is probably like my childhood favorite that I still love is baked with like mayonnaise, dill and crumbled potato chips.

25:12It sounds a little silly maybe, but it's a super comfort food for me. Hannah, it sounds amazing. Let's be clear here. There's nothing silly about that. It sounds like you know what you're doing. Right. I mean, I think, you know, six-year-old Hannah definitely had it right. You just put some mayonnaise on it and some potato chips and you're good. I would say though, okay, number one favorite though, smoked salmon. So our family, just my wife and I probably make like 40 pounds of smoked salmon a year. It's a two-day brine and brown sugar and salt and then hot smoked for a few hours and we vacuum seal it and put it in the freezer.

25:46And that is go-to protein snacks all year long. So that is probably my number one favorite. Oh my goodness. I cannot imagine how delicious that is. I love the technique. Sounds like you could actually do that at home here in Lower 48. I think you can. I actually have some good friends from college that tried smoked salmon visiting me up here in Alaska, and they went home and bought just a small smoker that you can have on your porch right out your back door, right? It's totally doable, and I'd love to see more folks trying it. On This Is Taste, we asked guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, Here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.