517: The Four Horsemen Is Brooklyn Restaurant Canon with Nick Curtola

28:48You know, it's like a mayo that we make in-house just with some Dijon folded into it. Yeah, yeah. It's a really, really unique sandwich. And I paid to do the focaccia recipe, which I think everyone this fall should make some focaccia. Yeah, it's so nice to make at home, definitely. Definitely. And it's a pan, so it's a little bit different than baking on a deck or baking it in the oven. You've got a little flexibility there. Yeah, yeah. You make the statement, real cooks make great salads, which I think is true. What do you mean exactly? I mean, I kind of borrowed that from David Tannis going back to him.

29:22I mean, his writing was like heavily inspired me. But I think it's kind of like, I don't know, when I was kind of coming up in restaurants, everybody wanted to work like the meat station or the fish station. And I worked at this place called Camino in Oakland and the chef Russ, like really instilled in me that like salads were much trickier to make. I mean, finding that balance with lettuces, with like vegetables, whether it be, and I'm not talking just like leafy salads. When I think about salads, I think about even something like wax beans, but are, you know, like blanching a wax bean perfectly, seasoning it perfectly kind of like marrying it with a vinaigrette and cheeses and fresh herbs that to me is like a much harder thing to maneuver than grilling a wagyu steak i mean a wagyu steak is going to be good most of the time right and i don't know i mean for me like a salad is all about balance and cooking is all about balance so if you can understand salads and garmage a pantry station i feel like you can kind of wrap your head around everything else to me it's at the four horsemen especially it's the hardest station to work yeah absolutely and it's the hardest dish to make um for home cooks i think we often struggle with um with with everything from the balance of the the the dressing to getting our our produce dry uh you know nick tell us a bit just what's a tip to make a great salad i think kind of you know being really delicate with the greens, probably dressing them less than you think.

30:57They don't take a lot. Getting them really dry before you store them so they don't wilt is another good one. And then just thinking about the balance of, you know, if you have a bib lettuce, for example, you don't want to put a bunch of heavy toppings on top of that or heavy ingredients into that salad. Whereas if you have something like radicchio or tardivo or something like that, then you can load in like some really kind of chunky pieces of cheese and some nuts um and just really thinking about i don't know it's hard but like the final the final end product and what you're looking to get out of it yeah i think weighting down your your delicate leaves is a is a definitely a common error i would say also another no more acid than you think yeah i totally agree i see i see the like the three to one ratio a lot of like oil to vinegar i probably do almost 50 50 yeah no with a little bit of fresh like acid right at the end.

31:51Also, just like bib lettuce and dressing is totally fine. Yeah, definitely. You know, you don't have to flex with like the knife skills on a salad. As long as you're taking pride in like cutting out really beautiful pieces of lettuce, not just tearing it, you know, using a sharp knife because if you're not using a sharp knife, the lettuce will bruise easier because you're just kind of like smashing its cell walls, you know. So yeah, sharp knife, really delicate with like your fingertips when you're handling lettuce. I'm kind of like crazy about salad greens and lettuces at the restaurant. You can ask any of my cooks.

32:21So you'll check the stations and be like, yo, guys. All the time, especially with salads, yeah, especially with lettuces. I'm very picky about how I like them treated. And I really have to instill that into new cooks. Let's start with this. As an aside, you mentioned Russ Moore from Camino, and I love that you bring up this restaurant. It's such an iconic restaurant in Oakland. We published the book here at 10 Speed. You can check it out. It still is available. It's still in print. So buy the Camino book. if you have any interest in cooking over a live fire, what a dramatic restaurant you walk in.

32:51It's like wider than it is deep and it has this fireplace at the center. Give us a memory of Camino because I want our listeners to remember this place. Camino for me, I think Russ was like really at the forefront of that movement of cooking over live fire. He came from Chez Panisse and they obviously have a hearth down in the restaurant there. And they're known for that, but he kind of like really expanded on that um and i remember i went to go eat at um like at shabari yeah and i was like i need to go work somewhere like this where somebody's doing cooking like this who's doing it and it happened to be in my backyard and i was working in oakland at the time um and i i think i maybe emailed russ off of like a craigslist ad and got in on the opening team kind of like helped, you know, set up stations, set up equipment, that kind of thing, like really early on, which was like a really cool experience for a young cook to kind of be part of an opening team.

33:53So yeah, I remember going in there, like the smells of like the wood burning fire, lighting the grill, lighting the wood burning oven. And then with Russ, for me, my big takeaway was just his kind of like experience with produce and working with farmers and his knowledge of like produce, not even seasonal produce, but like micro seasonal produce. That was somewhere I wanted to get in my career. And that was something I strive for and studied constantly because I was just blown away that this guy knew like everything that was in season at any given moment, what quality it was in, you know what I mean?

34:31What level of like starchiness it would likely have and what we would have to do to it because of that um that to me was really eye-opening let's talk about esh tabari uh back when you went because like now it comes up all the time in our conversations and it is like the hardest reservation in the world it's now on world's 50 best every year but back when you visited it was not that and i wish i could go back in that time machine and go at that time yeah i went honestly because i used to watch cook's tour like anthony bourdain's cook's first like tv show the First one on Food Network, yeah. And I remember he went there and I was like, what is this place?

35:06Like, I have to go here. And I'd wanted to go to Spain for a really long time. I might have already actually been to Spain before that time period. But I wanted to explore, like, San Sebastian a bit. So I went up there with the, like, whole goal being to go to Echebarri. So I went to San Sebastian. We got a rental car. And this was, like, before GPS. yes so i remember like going on like map quest or yahoo maps and like printing out the the directions and if you've ever been there it's very remote yeah and we definitely got lost along the way which was like part of the journey and honestly pretty kind of fun um but yeah just going there it's it was like a very magical experience and it was definitely one of those places that shaped who i am as a cook and how i cook and how i approach ingredients because there there's a certain level of simplicity because they're able to get some of the best ingredients, at least for their region and what they're trying to do.

36:07I mean, it was incredible. Love that memory. You have a really great essay about PJs and you have this term, precious juices. And I've never heard this explained. I've never read this explanation. It makes 100 % sense. And give us a sense of how the home cook can really, you know, create a PJ's practice in the home kitchen. I mean, yeah, it's a weird kind of like just idiosyncratic thing we do at the restaurant. It's one of those things that I kind of started saying and then it caught on for us. Like every kitchen has their weird kind of like phrases and things that they say. And that's definitely one of them.

36:46um but yeah it's just like it came from just kind of watching people cook especially proteins and and like we do them on like a sizzle tray or a quarter sheet tray or whatever it is um and they would kind of like put the meat on the plate and then like go to put the you know tray that it was cooked on in the dish station or something like i'm like no get those those are all like the drippings and stuff like get that like people in the uk put that stuff on toast and call it like a dish. You know what I mean? It's, it's a beautiful thing. And I was thinking about, you talk about like dishes we're doing currently, I did this like roasted grape toast with like this chef cheese.

37:26And all the grapes, like when you cook them, you know, they get really kind of like crispy and the flavor gets concentrated and they leach out their juices, those kind of caramelize a bit. And then we hit those with like a little vinegar and all those juices we want to get on that, on the plate and on the dish. Those are like the precious juices, You know, it's like silly, but it's just a way for us to think about not throwing something away that could actually be pretty tasty. Love that explanation. And the toast recipes are really great. Like you make a really strong point that you can put a lot of things on toast.

38:01And I love a Concord with a sharper cheese or even a creamy cheese and reduction of vin in the juices of the grapes. uh terrific what's another toast that comes to mind from the book i think for us like the leek toast is a classic at this point um and it's funny because like yeah we've pretty much i've always done toast at the four horsemen it's definitely an old camino thing it's an old shape in east thing um it's an old franny's thing um and now it's an old four horsemen thing um but but yeah like the leek toast came about and it's one of these beautiful moments where like my sous chef helped out with family meal that day and happened to do these braised leeks and I happened to be working on some sort of toast with like a whipped ricotta and I was like oh man we like what did you do these leeks these are amazing you know what I mean he kind of just like confit them really slowly in oil in an oven and then like cranked it near the end to kind of get a really nice like roasted flavor on him and then we just like spoon that over spoon them over you know ricotta with some really nice anchovies that a purveyor had kind of like just dropped off for us to check out and those kind of moments happen in restaurants or at least in our restaurant like a lot where things will just kind of fall into place magically yeah um and i really have a soft place in my heart for dishes that happen like that happen organically happen with like the team with people kind of working together in like a think tank where we're always just kind of talking and thinking about food.

39:32So the leek toast for me is definitely that dish. Yeah. I love the idea of a toast as a centerpiece because it can definitely happen. A hundred percent. Let me ask you, you know, James Murphy, LCD sound system, you'll play like, you know, 14 shows at Brooklyn Steel. Do you go to the shows ever? Do you ever like, like hit the backstage? I've been to a few. Yeah, definitely been to a few. Is it like, you know, having the fans come into the restaurant is obviously part of the deal um how do you as as as a chef um you know negotiate some of these fans coming in i mean james is there which is great and we've talked about on our last episode about what it's like but for you what's it like having um you know prominent musician as one of your partners um yeah i think james is really great about kind of like separating himself from the restaurant as far as like being a famous musician um he's always been like that he's I was like, you guys are doing all the hard work.

40:30Like the focus should be on you, not me. I come in, I do things here and there. Obviously did the sound and like a lot of the design. But day to day, once the restaurant opened, you know, they've been very hands off. Like for, you know, for, and I think that's been really beneficial to us. And they've also been there for like key critical moments where we really needed them. But yeah, navigating like fans and things like that. I mean, they're, I feel like they're pretty, pretty subtle. You know what I mean? Like you can kind of tell here and there when they're when they're in. And I feel like a lot of that happened when we first opened because the original press we were getting was obviously about James.

41:08Nobody knew who the hell I was. You know what I mean? Or like anybody else, really, maybe Justin. Yeah. So that's kind of like what they grabbed on to. And I think I think a lot of people came in initially for that. But now I think I think they're coming for the restaurant. And there are a few here and there where they also happen to be fans of LCD and like they're pretty chill. and I don't have any kind of any kind of problem with that and I don't know it's yeah James has been great about like separating that yeah it's a real art when you when you when you have the the profile owner but you defer to your team it's very punk actually it's punk and he's got a lot of faith in us and like that's happened because we've worked together for 10 years now and we we kind of have like our own language with one another and there's a lot of trust uh i've always loved the bedino which to me is one of the great desserts that maybe doesn't get the respect it deserves we've written a feature on i'm going to link to the show notes is a great feature about why it's such a great restaurant dish and i hear i see it in your in your in your book and i'm like man i gotta talk to you about the bedino take us through your recipe and and why it's so great so that dish for me was like kind of a an eye-opening moment um yeah in my culinary journey i guess but i used to go to this place called fenton's creamery in oakland like oh dude we could go long i've talked about fenton several times so so the black and tan there oh yes like i always used to get that as a kid we would go to like the san francisco zoo or the oakland zoo and we'd always stop there afterwards um and i used to get the black and tan and for the longest time i was like Like, what is this?

42:45I thought it was like caramel sauce. I was like, what is this sauce you're putting on here? It had like a slight graininess that I really liked that when it like hit the ice cream, it kind of hardened a little bit. And it wasn't until I made this like, you know, budino that I figured out, oh, it's like butterscotch. That's what people are talking about when they're talking about butterscotch. And yeah, just like in my mind, I immediately had this like ratatouille moment, you know what I mean? Where that like food critic eats the ratatouille and is like taken back. I was like, holy shit, all these years, that's what it was.

43:17Like, and yeah, so we turned it into a budino. And that's like, you know, something similar to what we do at like Franny's or something like that. We did a budino actually in Piemonte as well. So, you know, just like a play on some dishes I had been comfortable working with in the past. And then whipped cream, you know, some salted caramel. And then we use these like foie team, which is like a foie de brick pastry just kind of crumbled on top of that. And it's, I mean, I don't know. it's very comforting i wouldn't say like visually it's the most you know insane looking dish but when you eat it it's beautiful textures beautiful level of like richness and like a nice sweetness we don't sweeten the cream so it's like very italian yeah it's nice to like dip into this sweet kind of custard and then have a kind of like a fatty cream to kind of like balance it out butterscotch pudding you know yeah it doesn't like it doesn't sell itself because of the jello version.

44:14But when the Italians do it and when you do it, wow. Yeah, it was a great, that was a great moment for me. I mean, just like another reason I love food and cooking and just like, I don't know, logging those experiences as a chef and just like, I don't know, it was really cool. So Nick, let's talk about restaurant number two. It's been in the press. So I think you can say a little bit about it. It's across the street from Four Horsemen. It's double in size, if not larger. and you're working on the menu. What can you say about when you're going to open around and what's this new restaurant all about?

44:46Do you have a name? Yeah, we're going to call it E Cavallini, which is like a play on the Four Horsemen. It's like the horsies. But yeah, it's about 75 seats. There's a back garden. It's just going to give us a little more room to do things that we can't do at the Four Horsemen with regards to special events, seating larger parties. and yeah the food is going to be Italian I kind of want to go back to those kind of those roots that I have and I want to do just kind of like regional Italian cooking not necessarily like red sauce Italian and yeah regional Italian cooking using like really high level of like produce meats, fish, same thing we do at Horseman but just apply it through that lens Fresh pastas?

45:35Fresh pastas for sure Try to do everything we can in house and yeah, try to bring back a little bit of that like Franny's vibe to Brooklyn. Oh, I love it. Yeah, Brooklyn is going to be, that's going to be a hot ticket in Brooklyn when you open. When are you going to open? Probably, hopefully spring. Nice. Yeah. Love that. I can't wait to have you back talk about that restaurant. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Is there one recipe that you're working on for the opening menu that you've been like, no, I think right now we're mostly just trying to visualize the space, trying to visualize kind of like what a service would look like and how the food will plug into that.

46:10You know what I mean? If we want to do like some larger format dishes and things of that nature, yeah. So you are doing a regional Italian restaurant. Will you be visiting regions of Italy to prep for this? That's the plan. I'm going to Rome in November for like a really quick trip to kind of get a little bit immersed for a few days. And then hopefully kind of like early next year, I might try to go back for like a week or two and just kind of jump around a little bit. So which region would you really like to dig into? So I've traveled kind of a lot through Italy. I've had the good fortune of doing that.

46:45I did a road trip. Well, I worked there and then I did a road trip about 10 years ago where I kind of drove through like all the way from top to bottom and back. I didn't really explore too much of like Emilia Romagna, which I'd like to get to. Puglia, I'd really like to check out and get to see that. Calabria as well. I kind of drove through those areas but like I didn't really get immersed I'd like to do that and then you know I always love to go back to Rome I think the food there is really incredible yeah I love that big fans of Puglia here we've done a couple taste travels there hit you up for some tips yeah Lecce's got some spots you know Bari's got some spots Bari has some spots I mean honestly gelato in Puglia has really really impressed me I know other regions and Italians listening to the show might disagree but Yeah, good gelato in Boulia.

47:38Yeah, I mean, I believe it. Why not? Yeah, why not? Yeah. Nick, on This Is Taste, we asked guests that are about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit? Ripe melon. Interesting. Interesting. I think it's hard to find. How do you find a ripe melon when you're just looking at it? Peak summer for like a few weeks and you get them. I'm like really picky with fruit. I honestly don't really like a lot of fruit, like berries and stuff like that, like weird stuff like persimmons and um but yeah right melon middle of summer uh it's tough go to a farmer's market they they have it yeah the worst vegetable worst vegetable i'd probably say okra yeah for me i granted like maybe i haven't had it prepared properly or perfectly or you know in a way that really showcases it but when i've had it i haven't enjoyed it that much the best dessert uh best dessert i like a i don't know weirdly like like a oh that's tough like a flaunt or a perfect custard or panna cotta something like that that's like executed perfectly yeah yeah you're like doing these this is a technical dessert technical yeah respect that respect it respect the game a restaurant you are most excited to visit in the world it's kind of a cop-out maybe but i haven't been it's been open a long time but i'd like to go to noma yeah you know i see no cop-out everyone else go and I'd like to check it out.

49:03Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Because Franny's has come up on the show for this next question, I'm going to ask it to you. Is there a restaurant you wish could come back from the dead for an evening? And I can't say Franny's? I mean, you could say Franny's, of course. That might be a real cop out. You could say Franny's, but is there a restaurant that maybe New York back in the day, you've been part of the community for a long time? Uncle Boone's. Yeah. I feel like Thai Diner scratches that itch pretty well, but I really loved that Uncle Boone space. I had a couple of really memorable meals in that dining room, and it was a really cool vibe.

49:37I love it. I think the guests liked the space. I don't know if the chefs liked the space. Oh, is that right? I mean, it was a difficult, I mean, subterranean kind of going around the corners, but really, truly. It's kind of a little vibe down there, though. I don't know. Oh, gosh, of course. Yeah. Bringing that style of Thai cooking to New York, and then I think Thai Diner is good. I think that's what it was for me is just having that type of food in New York. It was a great moment. Yeah. Your favorite cookbook of all time. Oh, my God. That's a hard one. Honestly, just having mentioned it a couple of times, but like, yeah, like Platter of Figs or something like that.

50:11I have a lot. I have a lot. But yeah, that one jumps out to me. That's one I've referenced a lot. I just love his writing. Yeah. David Tannis, Platter of Figs. Is there a favorite recent cookbook discovery that you've made? Yeah. Actually, Randy, one of the owners just turned me on to Italia and Boca. Have you seen those books at all? No, no, no. Oh, my God. They're going to blow your mind. Weirdly, like they're done on cardboard almost with all these like hand painted illustrated drawings of like pasta monsters. And like you have to Google it after this because there's some incredible artwork in there and just beautiful like regional Italian cooking.

50:50There's one for every region in Italy. And it's like a whole collection. that apparently is becoming harder and harder to find. I guess it's like a kind of a known thing now, kind of as a cult following. But that was, I don't get into a lot of cookbooks lately. I have a huge collection at home and I did that for a while, but lately I'm kind of like immersed in the horsemen at all times. But those books kind of like picked my head up out of that. And I was like, okay, I need to get a couple of these. Yeah. Your favorite city to visit outside America for food? Tokyo, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. You don't need to say much more.

51:23pretty good pretty good city last one your favorite sandwich favorite sandwich i i mean the the classic parisian ham and cheese or ham and butter on baguette yeah to me is perfect yeah absolute simplicity at its best nick cartola thank you so much for joining this is taste thank you for having me

51:50so eliza i just had a great conversation with nick from four horsemen and i wanted to get your take and have a conversation about just this restaurant that means so much to new york and also broadly for for trends i mean they kind of were a trendsetter in some ways uh what are your takes on four Horseman. Well, since we brought this up, I've been trying to think about the first time that I ate there. Yeah. When did you eat there for the first time? I went there. I think I went within the first two years. And I remember Grand Street at the time wasn't at all what it is today. And I recall the restaurant that was there before long, long ago.

52:29I remember going there and feeling like man this place seems familiar but also walking in right away I had to like really like notice the the Scandinavian furniture and the wood the way it kind of has that that ethos and like for me when I entered it I was like this place is not just the James Murphy restaurant which is what I think the all the headlines were and Nick hints at like how when they opened they collectively the four horsemen which Nick is not not one of didn't have any restaurant experience and were kind of winging it. And so in those early days, for me, it felt like they were doing something very special because they were going against the current a lot with just the style of service.

53:11But we can get into that. What about you? What was your first experience? Well, it's funny that you mentioned it because I did go in knowing it as the James Murphy wine bar, partially because I was doing music writing before food writing and I loved LCD sound system. And I think I probably went for the first time in 2017 when I had moved to the city full time. And I remember walking in and the first thing you really encounter even before all the wood furniture is the bar right where you walk in. And there's two people behind the bar that are pouring wine and kind of running the domain. And I think it really kind of centered it to me as, yes, this is an amazing restaurant where the food is really delicious and thoughtful and seasonal and all of those things.

53:50But that the wine is kind of a forefront in the same way as well. And since then, it's been kind of my one of my go to special occasion restaurants here in the city. And certainly I've been for pop-ups every once in a while for like a special lunch. I think lunch is kind of the more like insidery meal of the day to eat there. It's less of like the special occasion dinner and something quicker. But even for Cake Zine, for the first two years after we finished an issue, we didn't pay ourselves, but we would go to Four Horsemen and have a meal together. and since our art director Noah moved to Paris that fell off a little bit but still when he's back in town and if we're going to be together to celebrate that's probably the restaurant we're going to I think of walking in and seeing James working the floor and and thinking uh there are half of the people in here are like James Murphy fans and it's got to be pretty awkward for him but the other half are probably have no idea who he is and they're there for the wine and I always thought that that dynamic was very interesting because like James was always there when I was there it seemed like he enjoyed being in the space and i've never seen him there really interesting different eras probably yeah probably i think this is like because i think you've gone much more than me because i feel like i haven't gone in so long um i need to go back but it's an interesting idea this is like one of the early restaurants to champion natural wine um at the wine bar at the pass and not just being in a wine bottle shop and i always felt like there was a very clear attention to the diner and it wasn't a place to upsell wines which I thought for me writing about wine I used to write a lot about spirits and wine and I always felt like that was like a move that like this kind of intimidation or even just like maybe not intimidation but this general excitement from the SOM or from the wine manager or even the server to push larger bottles more expensive bottles sometimes it was for monetary reasons but I I always felt like there was no pressure there.

55:48They were definitely giving plenty of tastes. And that's Justin Chernow while working the floor and also just generally the well-trained staff. Yeah, I really think the whole team there is so lovely. And my buddy Will is one of the main wine guys there. And I certainly agree with what you're saying about it being like, these are bottles that I'm really excited about and I want to share with you. And I've always felt very comfortable saying this is the price range that we want for tonight or this is the kind of vibe that we want. And I don't really consider myself to be a trained wine person. And sometimes I dine with people that, you know, I just pass that whole thick book to them because I think that's their fun reading material and they want to choose it.

56:26But sometimes I'll just say this is, you know, the kind of vibe that I want to have tonight. And I think that it is special that you can feel that you'll have something really delicious without judgment. Can we talk about the bread? Sure. So for me, when I first walked in and had that first meal, the rye bread was something that really stuck with me or the bread. I think it was rye, but like there was a bread service, which at that time it felt like charging for bread and spreads was like kind of a thing that was only reserved for like Dan Barber and places that were not on Grand Street in Brooklyn.

56:59But there was like a real attention to bread. And I think that's continued. I haven't been in a while. I think they do serve like a daily bread and spreads. Yeah, they do like a really good crusty sourdough with butter. It's not like a free bread basket that comes to the table. It's something you have to order. But I find that especially if I'm getting things that are more soupy or saucy, it's kind of a nice addition to the table. Yeah, exactly. It was a place that sold bread instead of it being complimentary with the meal. And we think about our current times where that's kind of the default.

57:29You pay for bread and then we're happy to pay for bread. It's very important to support the bread program at a restaurant. It should be, you know, charged. But back then it was a little bit newer for the restaurant scene to have like a loaf of bread for sale. And I just remember it was terrific. And, you know, Nick's cooking, I think I mentioned it in the interview. but he's really an underrated chef in New York. I think he is somebody who trained at Franny's and in California and in Europe and I think he is really, really talented and always pushing the specials forward and in the cookbook, he really digs into a lot of the specials that landed at Four Horsemen and it's a sneaky Michelin star restaurant, frankly and we think of it as a wine, We think of it about James.

58:18We really got to give Nick a lot of credit for the success of Four Horsemen. Yeah, I think their food program is one of my favorites in the city. It's why I make it. Certainly have a great wine menu, but I think because the food itself feels warm and cozy, but also, you know, a little chef-y, like not things I would make at home. It's kind of the perfect destination restaurant for me. Also, their desserts, I think, are quite good. Oh, yeah, for sure. I really like the Basque cheesecake that they do that's kind of brushed with sherry vinegar and honey for that tangy, sweet finish. It's pretty unusual.

58:47Also, the sticky toffee pudding is kind of a classic, I would say. Very much so. Both recipes, I believe, are in the book. The sticky toffee pudding is in the book. I think the bas cheese cake is as well. And definitely underrated. I mean, a lot of it is like, it's just, it's kind of effortlessly good. I feel like that's the vibe of that place. Yeah, I think it's funny to have a cookbook because certainly these are things that I would love to make at home and the recipes are great. But I think that the magic of Four Horsemen is kind of the sum of its parts and being in that space with that staff with the potential to go dance at Night Moves after if you want.

59:24Like I even though I would love to make these recipes at home and I'm sure that I will, I don't think anything really will compare to actually being in the restaurant. Let's talk about Night Moves and then their future because there's definitely some things to be said. I've never been to Night Moves. I feel like I need to go and check it out. Have you been recently? I haven't been super recently. I have friends that go a lot on like the Sunday nights Monday kind of days are they open on Mondays I don't know one of those days off days I think their crowd is pretty different on the weekend compared to more of the off days but they have this incredible like light up disco dance floor which I think was the first reason why I wanted to go there before and it does feel like a really special place and you are walking through this plywood unfinished hallway and you don't really know what's gonna lie at the other side of it and then the door opens and it feels like a little portal into something else.

1:00:14And also they do fun pop-ups there sometimes. I remember like Sunny used to do the Banshan by Sunny pop-ups there before she was up at Achilles' heel, which now she is somewhere else again. But I think it's cool that they have another spot and they, you know, as you know, are hard at work on opening more on Grand Street as well. Yeah. I wanted to talk about the excitement around their Italian restaurant that they're opening. Nick says it's going to be much larger than Four Horsemen, which is great. And seeing Nick cook with an Italian focus is exciting. I know he's certainly worked at Italian restaurants, Franny's being the most prominent, but he's definitely going to have a lot of attention on him during that opening, and I'm sure he's excited to share his menu.

1:00:58I can't wait to go. You know, happy 10 years to Four Horsemen. And 10 more, yeah. I know, 10 more.

1:01:08This is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.