529: New York’s New Semi-Anonymous Restaurant Critic with Feed Me’s J Lee

28:34The food is amazing. I wrote a really glowing review. What I didn't mention is I haven't been so hungover the next day. It's so long. Yeah. I've had a lot to drink. It's been my job. You're a professional. I'm a professional, and that was next level, which is maybe a means that it was a great time. I had a great time. Yeah, I'm glad to hear it. Yeah. Levador, I got to get to know. But it's not an institution, but it is an institution at this point. Well, it's a historical place. Yeah. I mean, I've written about Balthazar. I've written about the Odeon. They do things that are good. I don't know if I necessarily need to eat at a bistro in New York.

29:15I guess I've been privileged enough to go to France enough where I'm like, why is our institution pretending to be, oh, S &P. Yeah. S &P, it got bought. It's gotten a little bit more expensive. But S &P, everything there is fantastic. It's a great vibe. They do a good job. It feels like New York. Yeah, I mean, the original S &P, you know. Yeah, it's a little different. That place was a little dusty. Yeah, yeah. But that was great about it. Yeah, no, it was. I definitely had a lot of meetings there. It was a great little, great neighborhood in the Flatiron. But, like, I love S &P. And, like, Balthazar, I've been to Balthazar and Odeon in the past six months.

29:56I have to say, I mean, Odeon, I talked about in three things. It surprised me how great it was. And they do, like, I want to hate on it more. I want to. I used to be. Everything is, like, the service. It's like, the lighting is like, it's like Disney World. It's like, it's crazy. It's a very young crowd too, which is cool. And it used to be really bad. I mean, I would say. I don't know. It was bad. I mean, it's been around for like 30 years, 40 years. I avoided it for like. 40 years. It's crazy. Everyone, I hadn't been until last year. Everyone's like, you like restaurants. I was avoiding it. I always thought it was so dorky.

30:32And then like Keith McNally did his like anti-Chinese food post. And I was like, I hate this guy. Yeah, no. I didn't like that. No love for that guy. I'm sorry. He's going to get a lot of press for his memoir, but he's been. He's influential, but I was just like, you and I don't see eye to eye on food, so I don't care about going to your place. I don't love Balthazar, though. I feel like outside of getting a seafood tower and pretty consistent, I guess, I just have a disappointed time and again with breakfast and with dinner there. And, you know, I'm not going to like, you know, yuck on someone's yum.

31:04I mean, it's a great space and great location. I'm the, I've said that I'm the yucker of yums. I'm the self-proclaimed yucker of yums. I mean, it's part of criticism. And we call it as it is here. I really loved your buy sell for 2025. I think this common end of year, you know, rubric that can be quite, you know, wane and not great, a little bit trend following. But yours, I really liked it because you had some really strong opinions. and I want to go over a number of them. So you had sell croissants, buy tavern-style pizza. Tell me about that. See, when I was making the list, like when I'm thinking about being an influencer versus being a critic, and I do want to be entertaining, there's the thing of the take versus the opinion.

31:55Like sometimes the take can be more entertaining, but the opinion is what I actually believe. And when they overlap, that's when things are perfect. And with this list, I tried to have it be almost entirely things that I actually believe. I would say that they're all things that I stand by that aren't just takes, that they're all actual opinions. Good context for this list. Yeah, yeah. Croissants. Croissants, that's what I'm saying. I don't not like croissants. I just think every day I'm seeing someone literally rip apart a croissant, and it's like, this is crazy. It's like a stick of butter. It's so rich.

32:34I don't understand the context for these people. I'm not a bread person like that in general, but I'm always like, how are so many people are eating croissants? Every day a new bakery is opening where I'm seeing a new croissant on Instagram. And I'm like, who are all these people eating croissants? People are eating croissants every day? That doesn't seem healthy. Keeping the butter business in check, I would say that. When I'm in France, I put on my beret, I eat a croissant. But we're in New York, eat a bagel. Yeah, yeah. Truth. And you talked about Tavern, but I feel Tavern is the superior pizza.

33:09It's the best casual-style pizza outside of New York-style pizza. Yeah. I don't know if I agree, man. I think I'm all Tavern. Tavern's number one. I was trying to not be controversial. I do think Tavern is the best style of pizza. Best style. Period. Period. I think that, yeah, I was scared. Thank you for encouraging me. I was scared. I mean, Tavern, and listen, if you've been rolling on the show, we've talked about Tavern a lot. I had some guys on thin crust, sausage giardiniera in Chicago. Oh, my God. Pepperoni, I would say, with sweaty pepperonis. Traditionally served at Taverns, very light bites with beer.

33:50Really, really, really thin, and Vito and Nick's pats, we talk about it. But some places in New York, I think, probably do it pretty well. Yeah, I mean, Emmitt does a good job. Good pie. Yeah. Yeah. And I've heard that the Pizziolo that I know, Pizziolo that I really respect, he has two great pizza places in New York City. He might open a new place that's going to have tavern-style pizza. He's a Midwestern boy. I was like, are you friends with Scars? It's not Scars. It's not Scars. I'm just kidding. It's not, but it's going to have natural wine and tavern-style pizza. It's my dream. It's a dream, and that's a great guy.

34:26I hope the tavern is giving more flowers. We're moving on. Buy sake, sell omakase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about that. I like that. I love sake. I used to be, I still am. I'm a wine person, you know. I was like a very, like, part of the natural wine thing in New York, you know. But at a point, like, it becomes pretty intense. And it's like all of the, it's like, it's a lot. Sake is just so nuanced. It can be so beautiful. It's hard to even taste for most people because we're so used to drinking. I was used to just drinking super acidic natural wines all the time. It had to be crazy tasting. It had to taste insane.

35:11And then sake is like, oh, it's like you have to like not wear deodorant and like close your eyes and like be in like a room with no music, you know, especially at the high level. but it's so nuanced, so beautiful it's also just so easy to drink and it has umami which it pairs so well with food the thing that changed it for me was going to this restaurant in Paris it's called House it's the old chef from Clown Bar and he has this tasting menu in Paris and it's like, he's Japanese and they're doing the French-Japanese thing but they do like I did the drink pairing and we did the cheese pairing and it was all sakes for Rockford and blue cheeses and all these.

36:01It just blew my mind what you can do with the pairings for sake. It pairs so well with food and people don't realize it. And then omakase. Crazy times these days. If you hit resi. That's what I was going to say. Sorry, I don't want to interrupt you but I was hitting resi. It's a ghost town. Wow, there's a lot of availability. I go on a Friday night, I'm like, where can I eat? Nowhere that I want to eat. It's only 10 ,000 omakases. And half of them, they don't have sushi chefs. It's just like someone they found on Craigslist, they have a fridge, they have a cutting board, and they have a knife and some second-rate tuna.

36:38And they call themselves an omakase. It costs$70. It's like the only thing you can get on Resi anymore. It's literally a ghost town. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, we should write about that in taste. I think we're going to tackle that. And you're going to write about it too, I'm sure. All right, next one. Love this one. Buy Pepperidge Farm. Sell the giant goldfish at Time and Tide. Love that. Tell me about it. I haven't had this goldfish at Time and Tide. Neither have I. Fair. I love having an opinion about something that I haven't even. At least you're honest. At least you're honest. I was writing this and honestly, I was struggling to have a list that didn't feel like everybody else's list.

37:15but at the same time I just bought these Milano cookies from the every time I'm walking through the grocery store and I go to the Pepperidge Farm I'm like it's literally a struggle it's a fight to not just buy any Pepperidge Farm item and I was like yeah they're amazing dude the Sausalitos oh Sausalitos every Milano Sausalito oh my god you and I we were messaging when you posted this because this like drew me to your writing and you made this comparison it's like in Japan yeah Talk about it. I was really smart. Yeah. It's just like they're doing like every cookie they have is like spot on with texture and spot on with flavor.

37:53That's their own lane. Everything tastes perfect. I've left the bag open. I felt like for like two weeks. It doesn't get stale. It also doesn't taste super artificial. Like I got these mint chocolate chip Milanos. I don't like mint chocolate chip that much. And it didn't taste like gross artificial mint chocolate. It tastes natural. It tasted like itself somehow. It was like everything just the food science in Asia is like insane. Yeah. They have amazing packaged goods. And I feel like this is like the American company that's doing it on the low key. Yeah. Great observation. And I agree. I walk down that aisle every time at my shop, right?

38:32I'm like, yo, I got to grab a saucepan. I'm always fighting against the Intimans. Yo, that's a different conversation. I know, I know. We're going to do it another time. I'll feel like. There's so many cookies to talk about. We can go long. All right, next one. Buy, late night dining, sell. Servers explaining the concept of small plate. Oh, yeah. So I was scared when Great New York Noodle Town, like, stopped being open, like, late night. It was closing at, like, 9, which is, like, that's ridiculous. You were, like, the late night boss. That's 12. That's 12. I was, like, it's done. It's, like, finito.

39:08It's, like, over. Late night dining in New York is, like, why would they ever want to? I was always like, two people are going to come in? Why would you ever have a staff? And then they realize that they just don't have to. And I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. But now it's back. Not in full force, but Kellogg's is doing, they just did on The Times today, like the 24 Hours of Kellogg's Donner, shout out This American Life, Chicago. Yeah, yeah. But they just did that. Kriya Krishna wrote a great piece. I like that one. Great piece. Yeah, yeah. That was very entertaining. but also like something like Dim Sum Garden like they're open until 2am I've been in there late night so cool they're drinking Hennessy these like old Chinese ladies and they're letting them smoke inside oh cool it's crazy but I think it's coming back I think people want that was what's so cool about New York it's like you don't always want to be at a bar sometimes like I'm still waiting for Superiorty already burger to be open 24 hours yeah is it gonna happen I don't know I think Brooks probably keeps it a little bit tighter and he's gotta have a reset Because they're right on Avenue A.

40:12That's like the worst place to be open late night. I know. I know. And I mean, it would be really interesting to see that spot run 24. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Maybe. I mean, who knows? It could be in the future. And then the small plates. Oh, the small plates. Selling on the splinters. I feel like I've gone to places recently, and they haven't asked me that. I feel like every time I would go to a restaurant for a long time, they would ask me that. And now I feel like they're like, I think they've realized it's uncool. I mean, every GM in town read that Eater article. That's why. I think those— Food writing matters.

40:48Food writing can change the world. Brother, you're speaking it, and I think everyone wants to know about restaurant culture, and they want to know, is it worth spending our precious money on dining? It's a high way or act with the prices, and we've well established these prices are merited. Many of these prices, not all of them. Some of them. But I'm not making a comment on pricing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People want information. People want information, and you're providing it. I got one more. Yeah. Sell industry, buy. My challah hurts me, but I'm going to let you talk first. I love industry. Oh, you do?

41:30I do. Oh, man. That's why I'm selling industry. Oh, you're selling high. I'm selling high because, one, I didn't love the last season, being real. But, two, a lot of people, this was their favorite season, and it was their most popular season. Now they blew up the world where all these people are in different cities. Yeah. Like, I have not seen a show where they've been able to sustain, like, when it's been in one place and then they've blown up the whole world. Like, I don't think it could be very good. You're right. I mean, they blew up the world. And you've got to sell high. They blew up the world.

42:02They're doing a full reset. This isn't a TV podcast, but no spoilers. And maybe turn off if you haven't watched season three. But, I mean, let me just throw this out there. Yeah. Let's take industry to New York. I know. Let's frame it in New York. It's such a London show. I know. I always wanted Harper in New York. I was hoping, yeah. I mean, that's. But I don't want it in L.A. And I don't want it in the English countryside. Red herring. Red herring. Red herring. Let's just say New York-centered industry season, I'm here for that shit. Yeah, yeah, me too. I'm here for that shit. I pray to God that's what happens, and I pray to God that Harper gets more fucking flowers.

42:40Yeah, let's give Harper Mahal is the actor, and you're, like, great. I love her. Yeah, she's great. She's, like, ice cold. Yeah. She's, like, incredible. Like, she gives me chills. She's so cold. It's been a fun conversation, and I got a few more. I mean, I spot on Instagram that you had this nice stack of mineral waters. Ah, yeah. Mineral waters, we talk about it. I just can't stop talking about it. Mineral waters, you do not get enough love. Shouts to Jordan Michaelman for writing out and taste about mineral waters. And I saw that. I'm like, we should talk about mineral waters. Ah, nice. You have a wine background.

43:12You clearly care about beverage. What do you got to say about mineral waters? I like them. I mean, I like to taste anything. Yeah. Like, yeah, I have a beverage background. These waters taste crazy. And, like, if you're into wine or if you're into sake or something, it's the base for, like, all the beverage we drink. Like, especially with sake, like, the water is what gives it all of its character. It's also, like, so cultural, the way that these waters taste so different. So you get to, like, travel around the world in these, like, nuanced bottles of, like, bubbles. And I love bubbly water. Yeah.

43:45So I'm not so serious about it. It's, like, one beverage that I've not been, like, certified in or whatever. But it's something that I love to indulge in. I love to indulge in general. Yeah. But it's just great. It's natural sourced water. Places like Poland, Ukraine, you know, Albania. We can get these waters at markets that sell foods from these countries or on some restaurant list. But it's really untapped, pun intended, resource. It's crazy. And restaurants should be. I know. I'm surprised. Actually, after I wrote this. It's SP. That's why. Someone hit me up about doing a collab on a water tasting for a restaurant.

44:26Oh. Come back and talk about that. That would be fun. Yeah, yeah. I would love to. Because San Pellegrino and Aquapana, they got the lots. I think it's an industry thing where it's like. Yeah. Yeah. That shouldn't be the case. I know. Yeah. Because you can sell these waters for the same prices. It's a smart business. Free business advice. anybody start like a water consulting company. I think water on menus. And we could talk about domestic spring waters too. We've got plenty of sources in America who doesn't have to. I mean, on the flip side, there's questions about the carbon footprint of bringing these heavy waters from overseas.

45:07There's that. I mean, I have to recognize that. That's the one knock and it's valid, right? But also we're bringing wine. So why should something that we need to subsist be like it's bad to bring that from overseas, but then we bring over wine from overseas. Yeah, everything is bad. I mean, bro, like if you're drinking out of a Nalgene and that's it, sure, you got that argument, but if you're drinking anything, you pop the top. I'm sorry, the argument's over. Yeah, all of this, yeah, I don't know. It's a tough argument. Yeah, it's tough. You're heading to London soon. Probably by the time this airs, you might be returning.

45:44But I'd like to get a sense. You travel a lot. You're just in Australia. And when you're heading to London, what's on your hit list? Where are you going out? I've never been to St. John. Word. I've never been. People have been in my DMs telling me they lost their fastball. It's past its prime. The flagship or bread and wine? Some people tell me that bread and wine is better, and some people tell me that the flagship is better. I don't know. I'm getting lots of mixed reviews. But I think I have to just see for myself. And the thing is, like, guess what? I am a tourist. I think I'm going to—I won't say that I'm going to like it, but I think I won't see the cracks in the facade the same way that someone from London will.

46:23And it is an institution. It's an institution that changed culinary history way more than something like Balthazar. Balthazar changed no culinary history. St. John's has. Facts. Facts, for sure. And I was just at St. John's Bread and Wine, and I think it's worth visiting. You think it's better than the— I've never been to the flagship, and I was a pure tourist myself, so I can't represent, and I know dining is different when you're visiting a city. Anything else on your hit list? I'm going to go—this is the big one. The Yellow Batoran. Have you heard this discourse? No, no, no. Tell me. Oh, there's a big discourse going on online about the Yellow Batoran.

47:00And the chef is kind of a bit of a very British, like a certain type of British person, like I would say posh, maybe pompous. And he posted this diatribe on his Instagram that was saying, small plates is ruined dining. He's like, when you come to a restaurant, you must know the etiquette of coming to a restaurant. You must wet your tongue with a little bit of Beaujolais. and then you must have like a little bit of cheese to wet the palate and then you must have a pie to satiate the tummy. It's like this whole thing. And everyone is like, he basically was just being like, people who come to my restaurant are cheap.

47:41And he called out all his customers. Everyone got so mad. But everyone either says it's the best restaurant or the worst restaurant. They're only open for lunch Monday through Friday. Jay, this is lining up to be something. I know. There have been some good articles about it. Yeah, yeah. You got to really. Give it a look. Yeah, Viddles, of course, I'm sure. Jonathan Nunn and Viddles wrote an amazing review of it. He's an amazing writer. I love Jonathan. Yeah, yeah. Good writing there. I'm excited to have an American, because the class thing in London is just so different than here. I'm excited to bathe myself in this weird class dynamic that I will pretend to ignore.

48:20No, it's different when you're walking around Soho, I've got to say. Right by. Yeah. I have to say Rambutan, if you can make it over there. Oh, Rambutan. We'll put that on my short list. Cool spot, you know, Sri Lankan restaurant right off Burrell Market. Sick. Definitely worth visiting. That would be my one London record. I appreciate that. It's a cool spot. All right, so you're staying semi-anonymous, so we're not going to draw your illo as your face. Yeah. But I do want to ask you, because we have to draw an illo. What do you want? How do you want us to draw you? Draw me as a knife. as long as a knife wearing a hat and glasses tinted glasses a knife wearing a hat and tinted glasses Jay can we get a little specific about the knife what are we talking like an Indian chef are we talking about I would like to think that I'm a chef's knife but I'm a paring knife well you're you're razor sharp yeah yeah yeah I want to be more nimble I like to be more nimble nimble you're getting tight spaces I like that on this is Taste we have guests about the discerning taste so to close this interview here's a little rapid fire fast and furious taste check are you ready Yeah.

49:24The best fruit. Mango. Mango. Definitely mango. Mango. Yeah. I wanted to have an interesting response, but mango. No, no. Mango is the best, period. Love that. Worst vegetable. Worst vegetable. The worst vegetable. I've got the take and I've got the answer. The answer is bell peppers, green bell peppers. The take is artichokes. I think I agree with both, but do tell me why. Artichokes. people love to love artichokes but they would not love them if they did not look so beautiful and if they weren't so hard to eat. I've never encountered an artichoke that was worth the time and effort. Yeah. Word.

50:04And then, I mean, bell peppers. Bell peppers are gross. I mean, I like them like on a sausage. I like them on a tavern style pizza. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But they are, I don't know, it's cool that everyone's into Jimmy Nardella's and stuff and they realize that there's a better world out there. Oh, yeah, Jimmy Nardella. So buying that. Yeah, buying Jenny's. All right. Your favorite city else in America to visit for food? This is where I have the answer in the take. The answer is Tokyo. The take is Toronto. Oh, word. Yeah. Tokyo is amazing. It's obviously best food in the world per capita. You can get the best pizza.

50:36You can't get the best Mexican food probably, but you can get the best everything else. Yeah. Toronto, it's the most diverse food city I've been to. It's like Chicago, I think it's pretty diverse, but it's segregated. Toronto has ethnic food that I've never even heard of before. The first time I went to Toronto, I was like, what is Eatrian? Their diversity, and it's all great. I don't know. It's really a cool city for food. And it's close to New York. Yeah, I know. It's a short ride in Canada. We can get up there, drive up there. All right. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead.

51:11Okay. I got Village Yokocho. Oh. Village Yokocho, legendary restaurant, perfect restaurant, perfect place, like perfect price. And like when they had Angel Share, like there was actually like a speakeasy in it. It's like that's goaded. 2005, 2006. But my other answer is Del Posto. Ah. Del Posto is where I first learned about fancy food. They had a lunch that was like, it was 45 and then it was 60. But I would go to lunch there and be like, oh, like they put a little like they put a little stool for like my girlfriend's bag. Like I spilled a little wine on the table. They put a little tablecloth.

51:49It's the same pattern. They line it up. That's like the first time that I ever was like, oh, like there's something higher than what I've been eating. But this is the service and this level of presentation is. And with Italian food. And that's the pioneering moment for that restaurant. Yeah. New York City. There were French restaurants that got the four stars, but never an Italian restaurant. This was the first to do it. And Mark Ladner, chef, and of course, Brooks Headley doing pastry. What a combination of talent in that kitchen. One more just shout out. I wouldn't. Yeah. Sambar. That's mine.

52:20If I was on the other side. Sambar. Oh, my God. Second to have Samb. Obviously, that's the one I was back literally every week. Yeah. I'd say about Echoco. I love that call. It's been on the show a couple of times, too. and you know the foil yaki I think I was I learned about foil yaki there and and just what an array yeah it didn't fall off yeah I know it never always the same and they had such a like wide variety of food like you could get a different menu every time and it's always interesting yeah yakitori you could get some some fish if you want it's like a great energy yeah I wish and you know that that block down in the east village you know kind of kind of blew up you know there there a lot of gentrification or whatever, moving in, moving out of stuff.

53:01And unfortunately, we lost that one. So, all right. I got to ask you this. You're your number one restaurant in New York City of last year, 2024. I already said it, Le Boudre. Yeah, that's the one. I'm not too ex-poetic because it's just like I've gone so hard about how much I love this place, but they just do everything right. And like, as I've said, I don't want to eat French food in New York like that, but just their level of generosity yeah the it feels like a restaurant that's been there forever at the same time it feels like a restaurant that's not afraid to do new things um it's like in the past in the present at the same time it's like the perfect room it's beautiful like i can't think of a restaurant that i'd rather spend a special occasion at i love that and you can party like i got i had The best time there.

53:53I got wasted. Yeah. I mean, sometimes that's the sign of a great meal. But you can have both. Yeah, exactly. A few more. Your favorite cookbook of all time? Superiorty Burger, hands down. I'm not a vegetarian, but Brooks changed the way that I cook. He does fusion without it having—it's not fusion. He just uses anything he wants to his own delight to make the most delicious food possible. It's not like he's trying to make an Asian-style salad. He just makes it delicious every time. And it doesn't always look beautiful, but it's perfect every time. It changed the way that I cook. I love that assessment of Brooks cooking.

54:37And yeah, it's like he's not trying to play up any labels. Yeah, there's no labels. It's very punk in that way. And I don't even want to say that because it's just a dorky thing to say. No, it is. In this format, in the audio format, maybe in Rit World, you don't want to say punk, but. Yeah, not that, but yeah. It works. It says what it is. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Oh, Jimmy John's Turkey Tom. Oh, stop. Double J's coming in. I love the call. Jimmy John's Turkey Tom. It's just the most bland food in the entire world. To me, it's the most neutral food. It's like eating a bottle of bubbly water.

55:20I've said that it's made me feel like God. I look at the world and I'm indifferent to it. I don't need some bombastic huge sandwich. I just want turkey. I just want water and white bread and white meat. It sometimes is the meal that speaks to you. At a certain moment. Yeah. Well, Jaylee, what a pleasure. It's great getting to know you on the mic, and can't wait to hang with you and have a meal. Oh, yeah, we should. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you. This is amazing.

55:57This Is Taste is hosted by Eliza Abarbanel and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is produced by Shalia Harris and Pat Stango and edited by Clayton Gumbert. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com. And make sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates on all cool things that are happening.