547: The Tiny Cocktail Revolution Is Here with Tyler Zielinski

0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. And I like to say that they're the fashionable way of drinking low ABV, where you're enjoying all the flavor that you typically have with your cocktails that you know and love, but without all the overindulgence of, you know, having five full-size cocktails. You could have five tiny cocktails. You get all the same value and flavor, and you could just keep going without, you know, being on the floor by the end of it. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard. Tyler Zielinski is a London-based drinks professional and has written for his places like Punch, Eater, Food & Wine, and other publications.

1:07On this episode, we talk about his very cool debut cookbook, Tiny Cocktails. We also dig into where Tyler likes to drink in his hometown of London and what makes an extraordinary cocktail experience. Also on the show, I have a great conversation with Bonnie Reichert. She is the author of a terrific new memoir, How to Share an Egg, A true story of hunger, love, and plenty. I hope you enjoy these conversations.

1:41Tyler Zalinski, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you doing? Very well. How are you? Yeah, great. It's nice to talk to somebody on the ground in London. We're going to get into, you know, what you're observing there, but we're also going to talk about your great new book, Tiny Cocktails, and what exactly that is. But before we get to the book, let's just talk about bar culture in general, the cocktail scene. You write about it extensively for great publications. But in 2025, what are you seeing? What is exciting you in the cocktail world? Yeah, I would say it's a difficult question. I would say, you know, I think as your career goes on and as you see more of what's going on in cocktail culture, fewer things excite you I think generally and I think that's something probably most people in the industry might resonate with but I think personally I'd say it's this genre of like five star dive bars that has become increasingly popular probably over the last half decade these are venues that aren't really pretentious but they care about as much about the cocktails as they do the 360 guest experience they're about the vibe and they're not shoving technique down guests' throats which I think that behavior always alienates people.

2:55And it's something that we see a bit more in serious cocktail bars, which they do have their time and place. But I think it's this kind of like bars where you could just let your hair down, but also have a great cocktail. The music's good. And there's some other element to the experience, whether that be live music or some sort of performance or games or some added layer other than just the liquid in the glass. So I would say, generally speaking, kind of that genre of bar. Great drinks are everywhere now. And if you have an incredible cocktail program, but of course, as you mentioned, like a great band is playing or music or, you know, great food or the space is unique.

3:33I mean, give me a couple of these five-star dive bars that you've been to maybe in London or New York or wherever you've traveled. Yeah, so I would say, so five-star dive bar, if you've heard of Schmuck, which is opening in New York City imminently. by Mo and Juliet, who used to work at Two Schmucks in Barcelona. They kind of coined that term and I think have also set, were really trendsetters in this space. I think Paradise Lost, which I haven't been to in New York City, but it's kind of this like dark, edgy, tropical cocktail bar. So it's sort of like, you know, quote unquote, tiki style drinks, but in a setting that's kind of like hardcore punk, which I think is super badass.

4:22I also haven't been to Yacht Club in Denver, but similar vibes. And then, yeah, I mean, I'm a sucker for just a dive bar in general. But I think those are a few off the top of my head that I've seen both been to and from afar that I personally enjoy. Well, I love this movement, and it reminds me of the reboot at Holiday Cocktail Lounge on St. Mark's maybe eight or nine years ago. And I used to go there when it was a real dive bar, literally the only place I've ever had Heineken Dark, which like, holy cow, what a grail. But then they, of course, you know, brought in great talent and decided to make it actually a spiffy place.

4:59Dude, Holiday Cocktail Lounge is one I haven't been to in ages since I used to live in New York. But that is the quintessential five-star dive bar. That's exactly what I'm talking about. You know, this bar was just like great vibes. I remember, you know, having a couple shots, a couple daiquiris. And like, next thing I know, I was just like, you know, belting out bangers because, I mean, the playlist was just so, so fire. Yeah, that bar is awesome. So cool. And now let's move to London, though. Like, you know, any cocktail bar doesn't have to be in the five-star dive bar range, but I just returned recently, and I had a great time just, you know, reintroducing myself to the city.

5:35But where are you drinking in London? Ooh, actually, first, I'm actually curious where you came in London, but I'm happy to share mine as well. Oh, no doubt. I mean, I'm, like, not a drinker. I'm an NA guy. Um, so it wasn't really hitting, but I remember having some great nights at Kulu Kale and, you know, some back in the day, London was an incredible cocktail town. Um, I, I mean, I, I was on the restaurant tip. I went to St. John bread and I went to a great, great meal at Pally Hill and Rambutan. Nice. That's the hit list. Yeah. Trying. I'm trying, you know, I, I feel like I had some great intel.

6:11Some good friends reached out, but for yourself, I mean, you, you write about food, you write about drinks. So you're, you're really tapped in. What are you seeing in London? I'm always curious about where people go. So yeah, I appreciate you sharing some of that. Yeah, for myself, it really depends. I think, obviously, I go out a lot for work, and that's a mixture of bars and restaurants. But I think I always like to share where I prefer to go, like on my own personal time, because I think that's really representative if you know the place that I love. And I think it really depends. I think London is one of, I think, probably, I think the greatest city for cocktail bars in the world.

6:46Just like the sheer volume of great bars, I think relative to other cities is something that's really special about London. And there's a little bit of everything. So, you know, for like special occasions might find myself in Conant Bar having, you know, their iconic table side martini service. Side hustle at the Nomad is a massive favorite of mine. You know, you could have exceptional Mexican food. I think some of the best in london um paired with latin tunes and i mean you could get great classic cocktails there and they're poured in ounces uh not ml so that they keep it american which i find comforting uh because i'm a big uh american classics guy you know that's that 60 or two ounces 60 milliliters versus that 50 milliliters makes a really big difference in a in a daiquiri for example um or margarita.

7:36I also love Lioness, which is at the Sea Containers Hotel on the South Bank. You know, I think the hospitality and service is just always so exceptional. You're right on the Thames. So the view is gorgeous. You can see St. Paul's Cathedral. They actually recently received three pins from the Pinnacle Guide, which is the kind of Michelin Guide for the bar industry, which was a pretty big deal. They're the first bar to do it or to get that recognition. And I think deservedly so, you know, the cocktails are so inventive and actually for non-drinkers like yourself, highly recommend going because I think they do some of the best non-alcoholics in, I think, in London just because the ingredients are so, and there's so much effort and inspiration behind every component that they create.

8:29Like right now they have an ingredient that's inspired by like potato smiley. So it's kind of like this like unctuous, like carby, almost like liquid French fry basically of an ingredient that they use. And I believe the cocktail is called the Diamante Swizzle. But yeah, they like really nerd out, they get into fermentation, kind of they look at biology as well. And like, yeah, I think what they do there is phenomenal. But for the most part, though, I mean, you mostly will find me at a pub or dive bar. I think when your whole life is going to cocktail bars for work and restaurants, like most times I just want to like sit in a pub, have a fine pint of Guinness, like have a couple of snacks and keep it pretty low key.

9:12But when I do go out, yes, it's some of these ones that I just named, they're places that I'll typically stop by. Yeah. Well, Tyler, great wrecks. I mean, our friend Chloe Frechette, I remember at Punch, you know, talking about Lioness back in the day. and I have to remind everyone to read your work on Punch, you know, a terrific publication I used to edit at and really it reminds me with the Guinness. I popped over to Dublin and had a bunch of N.A. Guinness 00s and some cool drinks, but there's a bar in Dublin called The Big Romance that I want to call out on the show because we're talking about cocktails.

9:49This is a really special place for me because their N.A. beers were so, They had Asahi. They had a couple of local Dublin NAs. They had really cool, for me at least, they had Tangeray Zero Zero, which is impossible to find in the States. And also just a really great bar in Dublin. Sorry, I'm giving my rec right now because I think this is a great bar. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think this needs to be collaborative because, you know, I'm going to say things that inspire you and vice versa. I think that's where all those organic recommendations come from. them. No doubt. Well, let's get onto your book, The Tiny Cocktail.

10:28And I love a book that has concept and really makes the case from word one that this is a thing that you need to know about. And cookbooks and drinks books are written over years. So you really were predicting the future with Tiny Cocktails because you really hit something that is very much trending in 2025. So first off, just explain exactly what a tiny cocktail is. Yeah, so a tiny cocktail, in essence, is basically a drink that's about half the portion of your typical size cocktail. And so that depends on the format. So, for example, you know, there's a sour style cocktail. You know, there's daisies and highballs and fixes.

11:13And so if you look at kind of like all these prototypes for cocktails, the volume will vary. And in the book, I have a guide to tiny glassware, which I think is the biggest barrier to entry for creating tiny cocktails. But at the same time, you know, you pop into any secondhand shop or charity shop or you might even have these vessels at home. I think, yeah, really, basically, it's just the volume of the drink. And I like to say that they're the fashionable way of drinking low ABV where you're enjoying all the flavor that you would typically have with your cocktails that you know and love. but without all the overindulgence of, you know, having five full-size cocktails.

11:51You could have five tiny cocktails, get all the same value and flavor, and you could just keep going without, you know, being on the floor by the end of it. Very cool to frame it, you know, as having some sense of moderation with drinking cocktails. I think that was like my biggest problem with writing about cocktails is that if you're trying to survey a restaurant or a bar and try to get a sense of what they're doing, you have to drink like, you know, 14 ounces of straight alcohol, which, you know, for some, maybe not the best, but you're solving this problem with your book. And the glassware question, you know, I really respect glassware, but I'll say just looking at the book, this is just a great home book for folks who just want to scale down their alcohol consumption, even if you don't have the glassware.

12:36I know this may be disrespectful to your work, but I'm just saying like you could put in any old glass. And just the way that you've written these recipes are really terrific. Just the smarts there to get us that flavor profile, but like half the alcohol. Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much. Yeah, I think at home, you know, it's more about what the cocktail looks like. And, you know, and I think in the age of social media, we want the drinks that we create at home to also look good because, you know, I think people really take pride in that. So, you know, if you use a full-size cocktail glass you're making a tiny like a tiny cocktail recipe it's gonna look almost like your glass is half full which we don't want and so a lot of like you can you can very much do that if you just purely want to enjoy the liquid and half its volume but if you are someone who likes to you know snap a photo or if you're hosting guests and like I don't want them to feel like I've I've shorted them you know a full drink you want to get the proper vessels to serve them in.

13:34But yeah, it's by no means requisite, but highly recommended. Of course, well said. I think you definitely wanna, you wanna post on the gram if you're putting through all the steps and making it beautiful. Give me a couple recipes and we can talk all day about the different chapters and categories, but give me a sense of the actual, like the highlights recipe-wise. Yeah, so in the book, I've broken cocktails into three chapters and they're by occasion. We kind of went back and forth about how we would organize the recipes. And we ended up going with amuse-bouches. So these are, you know, aperitif-style drinks that are great for welcomes or palate cleansers.

14:14Then we have nightcaps, so cocktails to finish your evening with. And then a chapter called Little Luxuries. And so I'll briefly talk about kind of how, what types of drinks are housed within each. And then a few of my favorites. So within amuse-bouches, these are going to be drinks that are light, citrusy, fresh, uplifting. Then you have nightcaps, things that are a bit either richer or even caffeinated. I think part of the appeal of tiny cocktails as well from that perspective is sometimes at the end of the night, people go opt for an espresso martini, which is very popular these days. but a full espresso martini at, let's say, 12 a.m.

14:56might keep you up a bit later than you intended. So a tiny version kind of gets you that little bump of energy that you need, but without keeping you up all night. And the same thing with more decadent drinks. So those are housed within nightcaps. Now we have the little luxuries. So I think sometimes we spend a bit more on a finer spirit or say even vintage spirits, which are, you know, some people do collect those. And you don't want to create an entire, a full cocktail with that really expensive ingredient or spirit you bought. So you just want to use a little bit of it. And little luxuries are perfect for that.

15:33But also that chapter kind of uses finer ingredients, both custom-made ones. So ones that take a little bit longer to prep at home, or maybe they're seasonal ingredients that are fleeting. And so I've broken up into those three chapters. And a couple of my favorite recipes. so there's a mix of most of the recipes in the book are mine but there is a selection of about 15 or so recipes from some of the world's best bartenders which is which is pretty exciting and as someone who's really close to bartenders in the bar industry i kind of wanted to show some love for some of the friends that i've made along the way so one recipe from a bartender actually from the conat bar which i was mentioning before is a agostino perone he included a cocktail and it's called Golden.

16:16And it was a welcome drink at the Conant Bar one period of time, which is quite cool. And he was kind enough to share his recipe. And it's a mixture of tequila, grapefruit sherbet, cooled jasmine tea, and then Galliano. It's very delicious, very fresh, easy drinking. And then a couple of the other drinks that I love, Fiesta on Warren is one. I used to work at this cocktail bar, helped open it called Lawrence Park in Hudson, New York. It sadly shuttered after COVID, but it's basically like a split-base mezcal tequila margarita with grapefruit that's adjusted with some acid powders just because grapefruit juice, if you don't adjust it with some acid powders, it's not acidic enough to balance the sweetness, but it's really delicious.

17:04is it's somewhere in between a margarita and paloma uh and then one called the sea fire colada which is uh like the champagne pina colada meets ramos gin fizz for all my my cocktail nerds and lovers out there um and it's inspired by a drink that i had at the kimpton sea fire resort and spa in the cayman islands called the escape and it's basically a simplified version of that and it is utterly delicious i love a ramos spin i think ramos is one of those like grill cocktails that you know, in your New Orleans and you're, you're checking out, uh, you know, the scene there, you, you gotta have your Ramos, but of course, if you can riff on those flavors and make it, you know, work at home, hell yeah, I'm here for it.

17:43Yeah. And it's, it's so simple and it's like the effort to value ratio is really high. Um, like it just does not take much. You just pull a few ingredients off the back bar and boom, it's, it's great. And, uh, actually that drink, it's, uh, you can serve it in a tasting glass. So most people have one of those at home. From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, an exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story. The 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time.

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20:17Terms and conditions apply. Don't miss drinking, but I certainly miss the industry and talking with, you know, folks who center the bar culture and the craft of cocktail, you know, in their world. And I just I have such deep respect for people in that world. Yeah, man, I think it is it is a very special industry. You know, it's one that I've gravitated towards and just have not been able to escape. and I touch various parts of the business from bar consulting to journalism to content creation. And the people that you meet, whether it be producers, bartenders, even enthusiastic guests who are bar flies who are always tagging along to, whether it be tales of the cocktail and are these trade shows.

21:03It really is a special industry built around connection. And I think wherever you go in the world, you're not really a stranger in the bar industry, which I think is one of the most beautiful parts of it. Well, let me ask you about working in the industry and just thinking about moderation and health. I've had some great conversations with Jim Meehan on and off mic about this topic, and really being a professional in this industry is challenging with so much consumption around you. How do you, Tyler, how do you square that? Yeah, I think it's something I'm struggling with a bit more in recent years.

21:39is, you know, I'm 31 now, I'm relatively young, I guess, in the grand scheme of people in the industry. But as I age, I'm someone who's a bit more, I would say in touch with with their body, you know, I played sports growing up. And so I'm a bit sensitive and how I feel and how I'm performing. And I've noticed, you know, when I go out and drink, how it affects my professional, my professional life. You know, I work, I've been freelance for seven years now, and I've been working for myself. So, you know, if I'm hungover and I don't work the next day, I don't, you know, I don't make money. And so that for me, that's an issue.

22:16And how I've tried to navigate that is really just going out less. In London, I've moved about as far out as possible. I live in Richmond at the moment, which is Ted Lasso land for anyone who's watched the show on Apple TV. It is a lovely part of the world. But it is, it is, it takes me about at least 45 minutes to get anywhere in central London, 45 minutes to an hour. And so kind of removing myself from the, I think the temptation of, you know, going to too many events and going out and be like, oh yeah, I'll just, you know, I'll meet them for a couple of drinks. Instead of going out, three, four nights a week, I'm going out, you know, one or two.

22:54And I think just knowing yourself, I think is really important. I know that I could easily be tempted. I'm such a yes man and a people pleaser. Um, and which I think, you know, that comes from, you know, working in hospitality, we want to take care of people and we want to say yes. And we want to make sure people have a good time, but, um, that can never be at the expense of, you know, ourselves and our own health. So, um, I think, you know, knowing your limits as well, you know, I'll mix in if I have a martini, you know, I might mix in something low ABV drink, obviously lots of water. Um, so yeah, I think, I think it's just mindfulness and knowing yourself and.

23:29Yeah. I, you know, I, Tyler, I would love to work on a story with you or maybe you'll write it for somebody else about the 31st year, the 32nd year of your life working in cocktails. I recall that time myself. I'm 45 now and listen or 44. I just gave myself a few extra months. But really, that is a real rubber hits the road moment. You articulated it beautifully about how you got to take yourself out of the game a little bit at that 31st year. Yeah, man. We see in this industry, not to get too dark, but people getting sick and people sadly passing away and stuff from things that alcohol definitely can cause.

24:14And it's something that I think in the industry we're having more open conversations about in recent years, which I think is really positive. And so, yeah, I think we all have to be honest with ourselves. I hate to be a bummer. Alcohol, it tends to be fun and fun environments. But at the end of the day, especially for me, I have a wife, family planning in the future. If we have kids, I want us to be able to see our kids grow up and stuff like that. So thinking about, I think, the long term and not always just living in the moment. And joie de vivre isn't always the most positive thing when we're surrounded by heaps and heaps of booze.

24:54What a thoughtful response. I really appreciate it. And I think you're really a great case for somebody who can really immerse themselves in cocktails and the history and, you know, the culture and, of course, the craft and the recipe building, but not be, you know, a bar fly is a term. And not to sound too boring, you know, listen, like I love to go out and have a party, you know, like I'm good for like a, you know, a 3am or every once in a while. Hell yeah. You know, this is not my norm. And I think that's the thing. You know, people see, I'm sure, you know, on Instagram, life looks like really glamorous and fun and sometimes a bit funner than it actually is.

25:34So I think that's also important because I think we're always chasing and being like, oh, I want to be like that person and doing what they're doing and not seeing kind of what's going on behind the scenes. because there's many times, you know, I'm burnt out or if I'm not posting on Instagram, it's probably because I need some like personal time away from it all. So I think, you know, being mindful of what you're seeing and then, yeah, what's I think actually happening. Yeah, yeah. Truth versus reality. It's a really interesting dynamic when we're talking about social and real. But I have to ask you before we go, let's switch over to restaurants because I feel like restaurants are, of course, have great bar programs, but we're a food show primarily.

26:16So, you know, in your travels and you travel extensively, you know, are there any, you know, favorite restaurants that you've visited, you know, for the food and, and, and you can, you know, cocktails of course are part of it, but anything you, you really just had a great meal at recently. Ooh. Um, so I'm, I'm going to show some love for London. I do get to travel and I do get to go to some really special restaurants, one of which is now a museum, which I think many foodies on here will be well familiar with, El Bui in Spain, which is one of the pioneering gastronomic temples for cuisine. But in terms of great meals that I've had in London this year, Lita in Marlebone, it's this Mediterranean restaurant.

27:02The chef worked at a Michelin-starred restaurant called Buca here. It's an Italian joint known for exquisite pastas. And they do pasta very well. I took my wife there actually for her birthday last May and then went recently in that like bitwixmas period, between Christmas and New Year. And man, I was just almost fresh. I was like, how is every single dish so good? And the cooking was just phenomenal. I think Lita is definitely one. Fondo, which just opened recently. is quite a hot spot here in London as well. It's opened up by Santiago Alastra, who has Coal, which is a one Michelin-starred restaurant.

27:44And they, I believe, 23 on the world's 50 best restaurants list. He's opened, it's a bit more casual. Still, you know, still pricey, but really, really well done. And I think, you know, for people who haven't, are hesitant to splash the cash on Coal, I think Fonda's, maybe they're not familiar with Mexican cuisine because that's pretty much on the up and up here in London. It's been a really good gateway, I think, for Cole, which also one of my favorite meals that I've had in London, that one. Great, Rex. It is truly one of the greatest restaurant cities in the world, if not the greatest. Sorry, New York, but London is super great.