550: Cult Melons and a Wild Elk Plug with How Long Gone’s Jason Stewart

32:57And it's sort of been like protein mode. You know, that protein is so hot right now. But I feel extra kind of Joe Rogan primal by eating this elk meat. So I'll just like, I'll treat it like tacos. So just like a ground taco meat kind of vibe. Sizzle up the elk and then, you know, in a bowl with some rice and avocado and some Greek yogurt. and like a little hooks five-year cheddar on there, some cilantro and, you know, hit it with hot sauce. And it really does make you feel different when you eat like real elk meat or real anything that was like, this was killed, flash frozen, sent to your house, no extra processing, no weird shit, like truly wild stuff.

33:44Like you eat it and that's like a fifth element with food that a lot of people don't have the pleasure of being able to enjoy. Yeah, having that source. Was this a listener? Was he a listener that hooked you up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But from way, like an old DJ friend from like a long time ago. This guy, Jimmy Scott. But he's just a sweet guy that's like, you know, those types of hunter folks, if they have a good kill, they're like, you know, I have 800 pounds of bison in my garage. I'm never going to eat it, so I might as well give it out as gifts. I think that's so cool to have a friend send you something that they killed.

34:24I mean, that's like truly, right? It's like a love language for a very violent person. It could be a little, you know, unless you're a Jeffrey Dahmer type, you know, don't send me those. I don't want to be involved in that. But it is a beautiful gift. Yeah, yeah. It makes you savor that meal. Yeah. A couple more LA questions. Is there just like a restaurant that nobody is talking about or writing about that you just love? No. You know, I was thinking about that question. And, you know, every restaurant that I personally really love, I feel like they genuinely have their set of fans. but but those types of restaurants that i really love i i also like the fact that they are they have their own like customer base that is not overblown it's manageable but it's very consistent and very loyal where those types of places where a lot of people will be turned off by them for whatever reason but the right people are turned on to it those those are the places that i like to protect by gatekeeping and not telling anyone about it.

35:39So, yeah, you dodged the question, which I appreciate. I mean, I knew you would. But I did think long and hard about it. But I think the, you know, the restaurant industry, especially in Los Angeles where there's so much red tape and so much difficulty and startup money to get it going, if the restaurant is not great, it's closed in a month. Tough town. Just a tough town. There's no, you know, unless you have fucking carbone money behind you, there's not a lot of runway. And you're going to be flipped upside down in Toronto real quick. That's probably an outdated plane crash joke, depending on how late this episode gets.

36:16We've had a little bit of a bad run in that arena. And I think I appreciate your sensitivity to the topic. It's good. All right. I'm trying to find where I was sensitive. Yeah. So I want to definitely plug Emily Wilson's conversation on the show. She runs the Angel. Terrific. I listened to that episode. Oh, you did? Cool. Emily did a good job. Emily's cool. And I like indie media. I love, I think LA Food Media is an interesting place. And I'd love to get your take on how LA is covered by the big boys, you know, LA Times and so on. Do you feel like it's doing it justice? I would say no. Yeah. Overall.

36:54But also, you know, when you were talking to her about it and you were asking her, like, why do you do what you do? and she was being nice and saying like you know I want to do these larger scale profiles on people and I want you know she wants to do it monthly not quarterly and like you know there's no places that are going to really be like hey can you like write a really in-depth interesting article about this person and take really cool photos and you know we're gonna like there's just no budget for it and there's no real desire for it and the reason why people like her are excelling at what they do independently is because there's just nothing else and you know i don't i don't consider myself to be a member of la food media really that's surprising not really i mean i guess la food media and influencer media kind of like i'm more of an influencer a little bit more in la than new york because i think in new york there's more publications so you have like that business card or that grand.

37:54I liken it to every other form of quote-unquote content creation, but releasing music or film or whatever. The ability to use consumer technology to anyone can start a podcast, anyone can be a food writer, anyone can make movies. 99 % of them shouldn't. So food media is just people on TikTok eating hot wings in their car, and that's it and that's what's going to work and that's what makes the money so of course uh you know a bill addison article about a charming new cambodian spot in gardena is going to get less clicks than a fucking eight-year-olds asking each other what their favorite pizza topping is it's uh those it's got to be changed gotta find a middle i would say i I think, I mean, the legacy publications, Eaters and LA Times of the world, clearly have to get into that social video space, but not make it feel so like done in a lab.

38:58Yeah. But I mean, you say the big boys. Yeah. And like the LA Times used to be the big boys. Jonathan Gold. Yeah. It was like a national thing. People were like, I don't care what restaurant this guy's talking about. I'm excited to read this person's take. and he was working in a time where this newspaper was able to pay him enough money to do exactly this and only this. And now the average podcast makes more money than the LA Times. Yeah. Just as a whole, with zero overhead. Yeah, I know. Then the margin's much different too as a business unit. So it really has to be a labor of love and then you hope that you'll get a sub stack subscription and, you know, be able to make that your living.

39:43And I'm sure Emily will, you know, she's quickly on track to do that. And there are enough people who will pay five bucks a month, you know, to keep the lights on and keep her doing what she loves. Jason, what's your writing future like? I feel like there's a great something in you. And I think you know that, obviously, you write so well and you have a lot of point of view. What do you want to do with your writing career? That's a really good one. I mean, I don't think I want to write a memoir because it sounds scary, but maybe when my family dies, I'll do that. Wow. You're one of those. I mean, but you got to name the names.

40:25That's the thing about the memoir. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to name the name. True. I mean, I would like to do a cookbook, but not in the traditional sense of one. I think, you know, some essays and some thoughts on, you know, as cheesy as it sounds, my observations on life and society and culture through the lens of food is really what I like to do. And it's, you know, everyone has opinions about everything, but it's really hard to kind of focus on and get down onto it. And food is just such a great, easy way for me to get into that creative zone and for everyone else in the world to consume it because we all consume it if we're lucky enough to have access to food.

41:12Buddy, I hope you do it. I hope you do it here. It'd be great to work with you on something. But also, I hope you do it because it's going to unlock so many stories that I think fans of your show, you know, people who know you personally probably have never read and your observations will be cool. Well, I've actually in this last week, I've had two big moments that have helped me in that direction where it seems like such a daunting task to write a book of any kind, you know, especially a cookbook. Like, hey, you know, I know you have 11 full time jobs, but write 200 unique recipes for me that have never been done before.

41:50Like that's it's so impossible. You know, you can get 10 years of an advance to do it and focus your whole life and then you can do it. But I talked to my brother. We hung out a few days ago and I was talking to him about books and writing. And he was like, oh, well, you can just start here and then work your way up to here. And he basically gave me like 12 chapter ideas for how food has sort of shaped my life. So a little bit of a memoir around food, but like starting out being we were both vegan when we were in high school, like 14 or 15. And that's where we learned how to cook tofu. And then here's our first fast food love.

42:30And here's this. And when I started, you know, so he just talking to my brother, who is like a twin. We're twin. He's worked in food my whole life. So talking to my brother and him giving me ideas of like reminding me about my life, because it's, I can't even think about my life, but he knows me better than anyone else. We shared a womb together. So that was really exciting. And then I also listened to the audio book of Stanley Tucci. Oh, yeah. Taste. Well, no, there's a new one. Oh, the new one. Oh, OK. And, you know, thanks to the good people at Spotify, it was available for free, so I didn't have to pay for it, thank God.

43:08But listening to this guy who's such a great actor and an amazing speaker and people will listen to him say anything because he has such a charming voice and tone and personality. that's why he's soothed every every mom that i know but the guy's talking you know he's he's talking about how he went to sugar fish you know it's it's like the a diary like a journal of like yes that book right so you know he's just like well i woke up today and i had some yogurt it was okay and then we broke for lunch on the set of conclave and i had some leftover pasta that i made the night before and i'm like i just i just listened to three chapters of this guy saying absolutely nothing.

43:51Obviously, if he can get a book deal because he's a famous celebrity, but what do you think his advance was? I don't want to speculate. A couple million, maybe. Probably. Say he made two million and he just had a journal for a year and they're like, well, was it amazing? It doesn't matter. So that type of thing excites me where if people want to hear what you have to say and you have a good speaking voice, you're charming, you're funny, You know, he'll take some digs at the French because he's an Italian and that's what you do. And that's really all you need. And people just want it, especially with audiobooks.

44:28I'm working out. I'm walking the dog. I'm doing the dishes. I'm commuting. I'm on the train. Just keep talking in that beautiful voice so I don't have to think about how I hate myself and my life. And we can keep doing this every year. From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, an exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story. The 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist.

45:11Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-starred talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus. The full program is available at MontrealOnLumiere.com, presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts. There's big talk about cooking simplicity, but you're usually left with disappointment after smashing that promo code. Now, Clayton, have you ever tried one of those subscription boxes?

45:49Yeah, Matt. My friend gave me a code for that one that has all the chopped vegetables in little baggies. I felt like a drug dealer trying to cook dinner. Yeah, man, I have so been there. ButcherBox is a true exception. I was sent a box of premium beef and pork and was blown away by the quality and variety. There was 100 % grass-fed pasteurized ribeye, tri-tip, and ground sirloin for my favorite at-home smash burger recipe. George Motes, you better watch your back. For pork, they sent me a beautiful center-cut pork loin for slow roasting. I was super impressed, and I haven't even talked about the ribs, which I cooked in my Instant Pot.

46:27There was a rub of salt, white pepper, and togarashi, and I pressure cooked with water and apple cider vinegar. It was incredible. These ButcherBox ribs are amazing. For nearly a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free. As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free protein in every box for a year, plus$20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. This is Tasty.

47:08We ask guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Jason, are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit. Best fruit. I'm going to have to say the orange. I don't eat oranges, but I'm obsessed with orange juice. Oh, orange juice. Wow. Yeah. And I know that when I say best fruit, you would think of fruit eating and not fruit drinking. But I have such a close relationship with orange juice, and it's so important to me. It's the one. Like that and like Martinelli's style apple cider. Yo. I cannot stop chugging it. At the bodega, New York bodega.

47:45Grab one of those. Yeah. I just can't stop. Or my friend Macklin, who does Stir Crazy. He has his own little artisanal apple cider lawn. You can see it at local spots. Got to get the stir-crazy. So chuggable. Got to get the stir-crazy guys on the show. It's going to happen. So do you want to get one of those Italian machines for orange juice pressing? Or French? You know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It has a name. I'm lost on it. You got to call one of those in. I've thought about it for sure. A friend of mine, his parents opened, or they had dreams of opening a little cafe, and they had the machine where it makes the orange juice.

48:22And he was like, do you want this? And I said yes, but then I was like, I'm realistically not going to have this like$10 ,000, five foot tall orange juicing machine in my one bedroom apartment. I think Brooks Headley was telling me they got it. They never use it for orange juice, but they use it for their bar because it's terrific for citrus. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like for any kind of citrus. Yeah, why not throw some limes in there, brother? Throw some limes in there and get that going. The worst vegetable. I talked to my wife about this. We agreed it's the sunchoke. Yeah. I guess, is that a vegetable?

48:54Absolutely. And if it's undercooked, you've got a problem. Yeah. I remember it had a great run. The sunchoke fleeced us all for a while, but for the price per bite and how fickle they are and how seasonal and expensive they are for what ends up happening inside of my mouth, no necessita. What's your typical breakfast? I don't really eat breakfast No way, okay That's an answer Every morning, black coffee in a cup Whole milk in a separate cup And orange juice in the third cup So I drink those three beverages every morning A glass of milk every morning Yeah, because most people put milk in their coffee But I like the separation of them I like to have black, hot, strong, bitter coffee pour over boom v60 or chemex v60 yeah word and then you know that's hot black and bitter and then thick cold white creamy milk on the other side it's just like eating korean barbecue and yeah shochu strauss dairy you doing shots i'm a strauss man strauss there's another one called alexander yeah with an e at the end it says there's cream on the top but there's no cream on the top.

50:12Strauss, it's a glass jar. You crack it up and there's two inches of thick pure cream. You poke that through with a knife or a chopstick. It's delicious. Beautiful. What's the best dessert? Jesus. Best dessert. I mean, it really depends on what you have eaten for dinner. Correct. You know, it has to act as a perfect, you know, so like you've had some of the best Japanese meals in your life and the best dessert is something that you never realized you wanted. Just a perfectly ripe piece of fruit cut into cute little pieces. But also, you know, I really love a good carrot cake. I love a sticky toffee pudding.

50:52Yeah. Or just some vanilla ice cream. Brand? Are you going Haagen-Dazs? I don't really have a brand. It doesn't matter. High quality vanilla ice cream is my bag. is there a restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead uh

51:15damn i thought i had one and then i forgot it that's okay what was that what's the style i would i would say that it it would be a restaurant that still exists now but i feel like has died inside and has become a shell of itself um and what would that be oh my god i feel like i have it don't look at me okay you know well i mean there's so many restaurants where you mourn what you had you're like back in the day this was i'll say it whole foods whole foods hot bar cold bar when i you know when i was in my early 20s yeah you know i would go there for lunch two three four days a week you can kind of graze you can pick a little bit steal a grape leave whatever but back you know pre-amazon i used to love the whole food salad bar and you could create a weird ass meal as healthy or as bad boy as you want yeah throw on some shit it's delicious it's easy it's quick and now uh you know the whole foods produce and bar hot or cold is an abomination what was your best restaurant in 2024 like your your best restaurant visit we'll say like it to be like the best but um yeah there's my wife and i went to to san sebastian oh yeah and there's a spot bar antonio there's all there's tons of the little kind of tapas spots in in spain and everyone has their favorites but when i was there it was you know pretty peak tourist season so there's a little corridor area where all the big popular restaurants are and there's just an hour long line of like drunken college kids on vacation from europe and then like american you know shitty americans with their kids their parents are like just go do whatever kind of thing and because the drinking age is lower and they're a little more chill about it so it's just like going to like a shitty frat bar vibe you don't want to be there so bar antonio it's it's in a different area of town off the beaten path but just go there and and get some some cheap wine little bites but they had the best Spanish tortilla I've ever had in my life.

53:28It's head and shoulders above anything else. And the mama makes it in the back in this giant fucking pot. You know, it's like a 50 pound tortilla. They're constantly making it. They bring it out. They slice it up, put it on plates and people just appear from the bushes and grab it and it's like$3. Wow. It's so good. Such a good call. Last one, your favorite sandwich. My favorite sandwich, it'll have to be a classic white boy special just turkey provolone avocado kind of vibe that's my that's my daily driver that's my if i had to pick one obviously i love you know a good tuna melt or a pastrami at langers that kind of thing there's a lot of amazing legendary sandwiches an italian you know hoagie kind of vibe is is just as good but i just get so much comfort in in a plain old turkey provolone avocado any condiment yeah Yeah, mayo, mustard, sprouts, lettuce, tomato, onion, and a little oil and vinegar kind of vibe, too.

54:27I love that. Jason Stewart, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. What a great conversation. Appreciate it. Pleasure is mine, my friend. Thank you for having me.

54:44Tejo Rao, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you? Doing great. Thanks so much for having me, Matt. Well, Linda Tejal, we're going to have you into the studio in New York or we'll do it on remote, but do a full Tejal career retrospective conversation. I've been wanting to do that for years and I hope you can come back. But I really just wanted to get you on to talk about this really cool story that you wrote about Panda Inn and its connection to the Panda Express empire that we all know. But before we get into that, you know, I have to ask you as a critic out in L.A., you know, where have you been dining recently in Southern California that's making you excited?

55:29There are a bunch of places in L.A. right now that I'm really into. Well, I'll tell you one about one called Comal, which is Fatima Juarez's place in Mercado La Paloma. It's in the same building as Holbox. And she used to make the tortillas. She still makes the tortillas for them and a couple of other places. But she's basically, she's nixtamalizing all these different heirloom corns that she's bringing in from Mexico. The tortillas are so good. And she's also featuring like artisanal Oaxacan cheesemakers and delicious beans. And everything just kind of tastes like the best version of itself. And it's very out of the way for me, but I cannot stop going, which is like how you know a place is really good.

56:13I mean, in L.A., yeah, when you're committing to that two hours in the car to go have some incredible Mexican cuisine. And that's right on USC's campus, right? It's not. I don't know if it's technically on. But yeah, it's exactly. Yeah, it's kind of like South L.A. And she has specials. You know, she has things that will just run for a couple of days and go away. So I keep going to make sure I don't miss those. There was a Nico Atale on the menu recently, this corn jelly. It's just great. And it's also kind of kid-friendly. I can take my toddler and the Mercado is very kid-friendly. You just pull up a high chair and sit at whatever table you want.

56:53It's great. I love that space. It's such an amazing place to visit. It's great. And the lines for Holbosh are wild. They're very long. And I always kind of want to whisper to the people at the back of those lines who are getting cranky, like, do you know about Komal? yeah i love rasa ruma too i don't know if you if you've been here recently johnny lee is cooking there um really kind of playful like dialed in malaysian chinese food and it's the last word hospitality group so the guys behind like found oyster and barra santos and queen street so they just the room has great vibes you know in addition to the food just being really, really delicious.

57:40It's nice to start a meal with like a giant pile of shrimp chips and three kinds of completely different sambals and like a cool glass of sauvignon. You know, it's just like a really great restaurant. Yeah. You know, Found Oyster. I mean, that group, what they're doing is really impressive just from like my seat, just seeing how much influence they have and really how the spaces are so unique. And this one, this addition to the group sounds like they're building like a little mini empire it sounds like. It really are. Yeah. And all the places are so different from each other. Yeah, completely.

58:13I love Mori Nozomi too. That's the kind of place I would go every time there was a shift in the season if I could. But it's hard to do that with an omakase. I haven't been excited about an omakase in a really long time, but it just doesn't feel generic in any way. Like every single dish is special. It's not show-offy. They only do one service a night. So you're not being like rushed through the factory, you know, while someone else waiting to take your seat. Like there's something they're, they're, they're both, um, like taking it easy and creating this flow to the meal. Like there's something special about their, the way they're negotiating, like the time and space of that counter that feels really seamless and easy, even though it's not.

58:57No, I mean, they make it probably feel effortless. And a follow up, you know, here in New York, we've got this like omakase deluge and it's almost like an industrial complex. And yeah, that's like all you see are these so-called omakases. And it's challenging to open an omakase tasting menu because there's just so much competition. Are you feeling similar vibes in L.A.? I think it's kind of like an international phenomenon, the generic omakase. But this really does not feel that way at all. You know, it really feels like the style feels really distinct and the dishes themselves feel really different.

59:36You know, there's not the, there's a little bit of that. You know how now you go out for an omakase and they want to bring out the luxury ingredients so that everyone can take a photograph. Oh, of course. Every single, you know, there's a little bit of that, But then there's also the opposite of that. You know, there was one of the dishes, like a toro takuro roll at the end. Instead of bringing out like the big, beautiful, pristine fish, they bring out the bones of the tuna. And you watch them scrape, you know, the little bits of meat off of the bones and get every little scrap to make this toro takuro roll.

1:00:15And it's kind of moving, you know. Oh, yeah. The opposite. It's like theater. I mean, we say that a lot, like, you know, food can be theater. But when you're paying, you know, a pretty high fee for a meal, you would expect to have something like that. And also just seeing the product at its origin and that technique is I've never seen that. That's very cool. Well, let's talk about your great piece, The$3 Billion House That Orange Chicken Built. What a great head. Love that. It's a terrific read, and I'm linking to it in the show notes. And first off, just tell me a little bit about the origins of Pasadena's Panda Inn and, you know, how this single restaurant would later in some ways expand into Panda Express and change the way Americans ate Chinese food.

1:01:01So there's so much kind of fast food history in Southern California and Panda Inn is part of that, even though Panda Inn itself is not really a fast food restaurant. So the Charing family, they're from Yangzhou in China. They moved when communists came to power, they moved to Taiwan. And the father of the family, Ming-Sai Charing, worked as a cook in Taiwan as a chef and then moved again, immigrated again to Yokohama in Japan and worked in the Chinatown there. um andrew chairing his son went to college in the u.s and a lot and with his dad and then with his wife peggy chang opened panda inn in 1973 and it was just kind of like a neighborhood um you know chinese american restaurant they did takeout they did catering for parties um they i i had asked when i was in touch with them for fact checking i tried to get a hold of a bunch of their old menus from the 70s and 80s.

1:01:58It was really fun to look at those. They had a noodle section of the menu called Chinese pasta to translate what they were doing for Southern California audience, some of whom were really familiar with Chinese food, some were not. So it was this really diverse audience that they were bringing into the restaurant, including the family that was developing the Glendale Galleria, which was also built in the 70s, I think 1976, and then had this big expansion in 1983. And they wanted a whole bunch of fast casual restaurants in their food court. And they asked Panda Inn to develop something for that.

1:02:40And so they came up with this kind of fast food Chinese American restaurant. And it was the very first Panda Express. You know, it's like a huge moment in, in, in American food history. Um, but I don't think they knew it at the time. It was just one restaurant. And over the years now they have 2 ,500 locations of Panda Express. And then they have a hundred more restaurants, which include, um, you know, the uncle Tetsu brand and Panda in a few locations of Panda in, um, yeah. And it's a privately held company, which is pretty wild. That's wild. I mean, that's amazing that it has remained a family business, so to speak, all these years.

1:03:22And I love this story of how, you know, the request from the developer just to, you know, open a restaurant. They're probably obviously a new Panda Inn. And then they land on this menu that you say really smartly changed food history forever. And it's really a lot of it's based on the single dish, the orange chicken. And I want to get a sense of from your reporting, how did they kind of adapt orange chicken for the mall? And like, is the recipe that we eat today at Panda Express? Would you consider it similar to what they launched within the 70s? I think there's, it's a huge gap between the, what was tangerine peel chicken, like a bone-in chicken dish on the original menu and what we know as orange chicken today.

1:04:14And I also think, you know, it's, it's worth noting orange chicken is not, they don't like culturally, they kind of own that dish, but it's not their dish. You know, it's a dish that I wrote about this phenomenon. You know, we love like an invention story and a creator story. But a couple of years ago, I worked on this obituary of Ali Ahmed Aslam in England, who had been credited over and over and over again with the invention of chicken tikka masala. And the truth is, it's just, it's more like Cartesian geometry or something. These dishes are not usually one person's invention in one moment, but it's like simultaneous discovery over time, overlapping influence and overlapping invention.

1:05:02It's really fucking messy. And it's even more so when a corporation is involved. You know, these dishes aren't just like dots on a timeline, but it's like a rolling inevitability in a bunch of different restaurant kitchens. And I think orange chicken is similarly just tangled up. And maybe it descended from tangerine peel chicken slowly. If you can get someone from the Panda Group on the phone, which I did, they're pretty vague about the dishes origins. And I think that they're strategically vague. You know, there's a story that, yes, it slowly developed from this tangerine pill chicken. And then there's another story, which is that Andy Cow, one of their corporate chefs, developed it when he was in Hawaii in the 80s.

1:05:48And it's maybe they're moving away from that version of the story. You know, I'm not sure. It's not trademarked. They don't own the dish. Lots of other restaurants make the dish. But when we think of orange chicken, you know, we often think of Panda Express's orange chicken because it's very powerful, you know. And I could have spent the whole piece writing about the origin story and I didn't want to do that. Yeah, you wrote a really fine piece that I love how you split the difference between this family story and then there's some of your own story in there a little bit. And it's a really nice read and you tap in with a lot of your writing until, you know, bigger topics, just hearing you speak about it.

1:06:28This is why we love your writing so much. And I'd like to know when you go to Panda Inn today in this brand new renovation, what's the orange peel chicken like? Like what's the actual dish like? It's definitely nicer than it's sort of the platonic ideal of the Panda Express orange chicken. You know, it is like stick it is, you know, a fried it's a chicken nugget with a with a sweet and sour glaze, essentially. But it's like beautifully presented. It's not like when you get it at the airport, and it's kind of been sweating in the box. And there's this like alchemy of like the condensation starch and the oil and the sugar.

1:07:10I mean, it is a little bit more sophisticated than that. But if that's the version, you know, and love, it really is kind of the platonic ideal of that of that dish. There's some spring onion. There's a little bit of orange zest on the top. It's not fussy, but it's nice, you know? Yeah, it sounds like there's a reason why fans of Panda Express will make pilgrimages to this restaurant. Did you get a sense that people are visiting the Pasadena restaurant as just like hardcores as big fans of Panda Express? I definitely saw a little bit of that and I saw people kind of, you know, filming themselves and stuff.

1:07:47But I also and I and I, I think I put this in the story or I meant to like there's also a lot of family reunions and people who've been going there since the 70s, you know, people who families from Pasadena and South Pasadena who I want the first time that I went to Panda Inn was with a friend who she grew up here and has been going with her parents. parents, her whole life. You know, it's it's there's also a little bit of that where it's still kind of a family restaurant at the same time, which is an interesting tension. And they make this big renovation. And what's it like to walk into this new space?

1:08:24I'm curious when you hear about a multimillion dollar renovation. I mean, that's cool that, you know, they have the capital to do it and that this longstanding legendary restaurant now has a little bit of a refresh facelift. Yeah, I think part of it is also the company saying or, you know, reclaiming and retelling their own corporate story and their own myths. Like, this is our corporate flagship and we want it to feel worthy of this empire that we've built. You know, it used to be pretty, it was this low ceiling space that had an entrance right on the street. It didn't look particularly special.

1:08:58And now it's very grand and colorful. And I would say it even has a little bit of a, it has a deluxe kind of generic Chinese restaurant vibe at first. But then when you kind of look closely, there's been a lot of thought into the way they've designed it. It's a little bit Disney-fied, you know, everything tells a story about the family and their journey and the business. Those two stories are kind of interlocked together. So everything's doubling as an explainer for what's on the menu. You know, why are there Taiwanese dishes here? And then And there's something on the menu and there's also art on the wall explaining that the family has this connection to Taiwan and to Japan.

1:09:42And now there's a very fancy sushi counter and you can even get an omakase menu at that counter if you like. It's very fancy. There's also private dining rooms now with big tables and lazy Susans, which I love a lazy Susan. Oh, it's the most user-friendly way to dine in any cuisine. Like bring it back. It's such a delight. Yeah, it's really fun. I want one in my house, but I don't have a round table, unfortunately. Oh, yeah. Wow, having it in your house would be pretty ill. I love that. Now, what are a couple other dishes, if we're going to Panda Inn, that stuck out to you that maybe we should check out?

1:10:18I think, I mean, there's something. So, you know, there's classic Chinese American dishes like honey walnut shrimp, which you can order a regular version of that. But then they also make it as a roll, which I just think is kind of, it's both like a little goofy, but it's really fun. And I think it gets at what people love about this restaurant. You know, it's not a perfectly made roll. It's a little sloppy. There's a seam, but there's like fried shrimp and these like candied walnuts on top. And it's just really fun. You know, I didn't grow up going to Panda Express. And and when it comes to kind of it's like Panda Inn is referencing its own fast food within this restaurant that's not fast food.

1:11:06It's almost like a like a ride for people who are familiar with Panda Express. But I don't think you have to be to enjoy that because the references are so international at this point. you know it's so cool i mean it sounds like a lot of fun if like a joyous experience just to to learn about the family history and um you know it has a little epcot center vibe that you're giving with this which which is not a bad thing like listen like there's different restaurants are different people and different situations and it sounds like this is a lot of fun and i really want this role i mean i'm telling you it sounds it sounds really crowd pleasing to me Yeah, I mean, with a, you know, like a lychee martini.

1:11:47Oh, yeah. No, definitely. Definitely. We're checking our snobbery here. I mean, I can take like a walnut shrimp roll. It sounds as delicious as you say. You know, I love that. But, well, I really, really love this piece. And, you know, when you write about L.A., you really find these amazing stories of the history of L.A. and Southern California with your beat. And throughout California, I know you're covering it. I have to ask you, though, about L.A. and really how are things going with the restaurant community? I mean, I could ask the question broadly about L.A., but I wanted just to focus on the L.A.

1:12:27restaurant community, you know, in the aftermath of the devastating wildfires that really affected the region. Yeah, I mean, it's still, you know, I think that the news cycle has sort of moved on in so many ways. But, you know, there's still restaurants cooking for people who are displaced. There's still, I think that really scary moment for a lot of restaurants where dining rooms felt empty for, you know, over a week. and people were really nervous and thinking places were going to start closing and places did start closing. Maybe we've bounced back generally from that. But, you know, I reported on this a few weeks ago.

1:13:05There's now the threat of there's a fear of deportations. And for some restaurants, that means people aren't coming to work. And for others, it means people aren't coming in to eat. And for others, it means both. You know, there's a there's a lot of post fire. And in this moment, we're in now just a lot of uncertainty, a lot of uncertainty and restaurants are still doing so much work to make people feel cared for and to make people feel good. It's just so moving, you know, it's kind of unbelievable. It's been unbelievable to just witness it from afar and read the coverage and the great publications of Southern California.

1:13:47And, you know, I haven't been back since the fires, but it seems that getting people to visit L.A. is essential to keep the restaurant industry going from, you know, the tourism money that comes in from, you know, conventions and just like general travel. as a local, you know, does it feel like visiting LA is a good idea? I mean, yes. Good.

1:14:15There was a moment during the fires where, you know, I knew friends who were thinking about coming to LA and they decided not to come because they felt like it was a strange time to be a tourist. I think that moment's passed. I think you can now, you know, you can come and enjoy things you normally would in the city with the exception of certain parts, certain neighborhoods, you know, that are still recovering and that have a lot of work to do. I'm coming back soon and we're going to have a meal. We're going to have a meal and hang out. But Tejal Rao, thank you so much for writing this piece and for telling us about it on the show.

1:14:50Thanks so much for having me.

1:14:56This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste. Thank you.