552: 150 Flavors of Cheesecake with Tavel Bristol-Joseph

28:44We would ferment, so like leeks. We would get a whole bunch of leeks in when they're in season. ferment that, make dehydrated leek powder. And now that is in a jar on the shelf. So when you're cooking, we're able to pull from all these things. I'm talking about, yeah, you name it, turnips, tomato, all those powders we would make and we have them in jars. And then we would make, whether it's vinegar, kombucha, misos, all of our old bread scraps, we ferment that and make bread aminos where you can put in ice cream or just in sauces that adds amazing umami flavors. So we're able to utilize all parts and the whole of the vegetables, fish, make gorums, all of that.

29:33So that was something. And then our beverage program, too, is really special. So when we talk about a restaurant that is a true representation of what Texas food is, not style of cooking, But food. Foodways, like what's grown there. That's what Emmer and Rye is. It's 90 % local. Very, very cool. Which you don't find often. Yeah, and the Green Michelin is one of the highest regarded acknowledgments of a sustainable restaurant. Sustainability, top of mind. And I'm glad you're proud of that because it should be. Hard to get those in Michelin, I respect. Yeah, they've only given out 30-something of those ever.

30:13Yeah, it's definitely a high bar. Well, let's move to kanji because I think you're opening a restaurant that's highly personal. And you're doing cuisine that I would imagine the Austin diner needed some education. It wasn't like bourbon-centric cocktails and, you know, large cuts of meat. Yeah. You were doing the food of your home. Or I would say you can describe it, but, like, for me, it's like, you know, pan-Caribbean. Yeah. There's influences from all over. And again, please, listeners, go there. It is such a great hang. The music is wild. I mean, great soundtrack. Fun, fun vibe. But you could put it in a white room and eat the food on its own.

30:58And it's like, holy shit, Tavelle, you're changing my opinion about a lot of things. So talk about opening, Panji, and what that meant. And how did you build this menu? Because I know there's dishes on the menu that you opened with still, and they're popular. and you're going to talk about the pepper pot, I hope. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, congee was birthed, honestly, the idea was from when I moved to Austin. And as we all, when we go to a city, we try to find ourselves within the food system, right? So if whatever is your culture and your background, you look for that cuisine to see how well you're relating to this community.

31:43And when I looked for Caribbean restaurants, there was one food truck that came up. So there wasn't a Caribbean restaurant. That's shocking. And that's, yes, for being a food city, right? Yeah, and a huge university there. People from all over the world going, yeah, wow. Exactly. So the diversity in food, I felt like that was an area that was missing. So in my opinion, okay, I just recognize, because in business you recognize demands. And you always pay attention to those things. You don't have to act on it right away, but you have to be aware and seek those things out. So I knew there was a demand.

32:21I said, okay, cool. So that was the first thing. But more personally, I was like, well, who's the next Caribbean person that's going to move here? And when they do the same exact thing I did, how are they going to feel? right and for me being a restaurateur in the city there was no way that i could sit back and let that be a thing so i knew in my mind that there was some point we needed to do this now again i'm a pastry chef so my first thought is it was never a open up a savory restaurant my first thought was an ice cream shop or a dessert bar. That was my first thought. But personally, I knew that there was a representation that needed to show up because I am a man from the Caribbean, and I feel like that representation always has to be present as long as I'm in a space.

33:23So that was something that I had on the back burner. So we opened up Emmer. We opened up Henbit. We opened up Hestia. And then the pandemic happened. And during the pandemic, I won Food and Wine Best New Chef. So things are starting, some attention is starting to brew. And I said to myself, and this was when, you know, everything in the world is changing and people are focusing now on, you know, diversity and space and things of that nature. And I said, well, I had this thing in the back of my mind that I knew there was a demand for. And this is my time to do something about it because now we have this platform.

34:10And now we have enough successful restaurants that we can look into what this is. So I went back to my business partners, pulled up Pinterest, created a vision board. And we said, this is what I'm thinking. I presented it, menu, everything. My partner's like, man, it's great, but, you know, we got to figure out how to get. I said, it's okay. We're going to go to Guyana. So we got everybody, my whole partner team, five of us. And we got on a plane and we went to Guyana. And we spent about six days, eight at every place, all of that. But we came back and it was like, okay, cool. We like it. You sold them.

34:58We want to do it. Yeah. Love it. So, yeah. So then we started the process. But the importance to me wasn't taking them to Ghana. It wasn't about the food necessarily. It was because we're all chefs, right? And we can always make something better. And we are going to also make it our way in a sense, right? No matter if 10 people cook the same menu, it's still going to be different. And so I knew that we were going to create something different. But what I really wanted us to get was the spirit of the Caribbean. What I wanted was for them to see those, look those people in their eyes and see the proudness, the culture, the celebration, what joy really felt like.

35:47and how they were received when they got there, which was very important. Very key. Because I wanted the same exact feeling to be when you walk into kanji, how you're received. And that's what we call hospitality. But I wanted to make sure that that was a very, very important part of what kanji represent was how do we make people feel when they walk in? And the only word we can think of is welcome, right? I felt welcomed when I walk into this space. Like it was curated and it was, it doesn't matter if I've never been to the Caribbean, it doesn't matter if I am living in the Caribbean at the moment, it doesn't matter.

36:30When you're here, we're all welcome. Yeah, it's an amazing statement. And certainly firsthand, when you walk in, as I said, it's a vibe, it's a party. Energy, all of that. And, you know, in the east side of Austin, there's lots of party. And it's a beautiful city with lots of conviviality, so to speak. And more. And more. And then after that, it was like, okay, let's get into the food. Exactly. How do we make this? So I didn't want it to be a Guyanese restaurant. But the beauty of Guyana is that it is a melting pot of the Caribbean, right? So all these different cultures, the Portuguese, Chinese, African, Amerindians, everyone contributed to the fabric of what that food is.

37:16So being able to create a restaurant that represents the Caribbean as a whole. So we're talking about food from Puerto Rico all the way to mainland Guyana. So we got Trinidad, Jamaica, Haiti, all those countries, St. Vincent, all those countries in there. So I am not going to represent all of them on one menu. But what we're going to be able to do is as we continue to curate the menu, we're going to take you on a journey throughout the Caribbean. So you're going to get dishes from all across the country, all across the continent in a sense. That really represents what that is. In lesser hands, it's maybe not successful.

38:00I mean, it's a huge scope to land. And of course, you know, you've got opinions from, as you mentioned earlier, from all sorts of people who grew up in Puerto Rico and grew up in Haiti. So when you're thinking about taking on all the Caribbean, how do you narrow it down? And as a follow-up, we have to talk about your sweet potato. Because you see sweet potato in the menu. Okay, fine, great. It's remarkable. So take us through that dish. I love that dish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so just to answer both questions, it's yeah. You, what I now read down is every dish needs to tell a story.

38:37So, you know, a dish had, wherever it comes from, wherever the inspiration is, that is part of the narrative. And, um, you know, so like, like for Guyana making pepper pot, right. Which it's a national dish of that country. I had to do that in the most authentic way. So, you know, we're going to bring casrip from Guyana. And casrip is essentially yucca juice that's reduced with sugar, cinnamon, some other spices. And then you add that thickening. It looks like molasses when it's done. And you add that to like sauce. You can add it to cakes, all different types of things. And it's this dark, rich.

39:19Jamaicans, they use browning. But Guyana, we use casserole, right? So we definitely had to do that dish. And with the sweet potato dish, that dish came from Trinidad. So they make the same couscous in Trinidad. So the real foundation was, okay, cool, we're going to take that. And then there's this Puerto Rican dish. I can't remember the real marionette, but it translates into boat. Essentially, it's a ripe plantain that is stuffed with like meats and they slice it, they fry it, slice it down the middle. You stuff it with meats and beans and stuff. So we essentially took the inspiration from that and we just roasted sweet potatoes.

40:09We made this like coconut couscous spiced. Oh, my gosh. Coconut couscous. We put that in the bottom. then we did the beans and then we did some passion fruit and some garlic and just kind of like sauteed and then we put that in the set man, as soon as I tried that you get the combination of like creaminess from the sweet potato sugar from the sweet potato then you have like that acid from the passion fruit and then the nutty flavor from the coconut couscous in the bottom And all that, like, texturally flavor. It's actually one of my favorite dishes. And I have to just say, your cooking is so technical.

40:54These are technically sound dishes. And I think these are savory courses that only a master pastry chef can figure out. You see it in Brooks Headley's restaurant, Superiority Burger. A pastry chef made that menu. And, you know, it's like veggie burger, but it's not. It's like so many different components. and this leads to pepper pot and talk about as a pastry chef, how are you cooking your national dish? It feels like there are a lot of steps in that dish. I mean, that's why congee's food is so unique because I think a lot of Caribbean food you have in New York City, it's like mom and pop restaurants and some of the food is a little bit, I would say rougher around the edges perhaps that the chef may not be as technically sound and it's beautiful.

41:41There's like lots of soul in restaurants that are in Queens, as you mentioned before. And I love those flavors. To bring it into a restaurant from a pastry chef lens, it's just like you don't find this food anywhere. Right, right, right. Well, and that's the thing. Like, one, I'm blessed enough to have really talented chefs that work with me, right? And the interesting thing that makes our group special, which is Emer and Rare Hospitality, What makes Haar special is that all of us have to agree on this thing before it moves forward. So it doesn't matter who you are or how many accolades you have.

42:22When you make a dish for the group of chefs that we are tasting with, we all should agree on this. And because we're all coming from different perspectives. And what happens is also I'm able to get influence from, you know, a chef that understands Japanese cooking. And they're like, hey, like, what about if we do this and bring this flavor out? And so I have an arsenal of talented people around me that when I make a dish, what I made is not the final product. Yeah. Right. So so most of these dishes like like like our jerk chicken, Like I made the first one and it's like, how do we make this better guys?

43:07And then I get like five or six people. That's like, okay, we can do this. We can do that. And then we were able to transform this steak just because like our jerk chicken, we made, I made the jerk seasoning, everything from scratch. So all these fresh herbs and spices and peppers that we grind up and I made it, we tasted it and it's like, it's really good. But how do we take this to the next level? Well, one of our chefs was like, what about if we ferment it? I'm like, ferment it? I've never heard that before. It's like, yeah, let's ferment the jerk seasoning. And if we ferment it for about, you know, we ferment ours for like six months.

43:45So now there's this beautiful blend of this flavor. Now it's more earthy. Now it's developed. All the peppers have expanded to its capacity. And it was just like, holy shit. You taste it side by side, and you're like, this is way more superior. And you would only know that if you taste it side by side. If I serve both of those products on different days, it's both delicious. Jerk chicken everywhere. I mean, the islands. Shout out to islands in Brooklyn. That jerk chicken is ridiculous. Right. And I don't know if you're doing the six-month fermentation there. I'll take islands, jerk chicken any day.

44:23Right. But the simple thing, right, where someone can say something that changes the trajectory on what you expect or think or what you grow up with. Right. And that's what makes kanji special, I think. We're able to not only utilize, because the truth is you don't want to eat the food that your grandmother made or your mom made at home when you go to a restaurant. Although you think you want to eat that, that's not what you want. You want the elevated version of that. Yeah, yeah. And that's why it's always funny when people say, whoa, my mom makes it. And I think it's like, yeah, but would you want to come to a restaurant and pay for that?

45:04Exactly. Go to your mom's house. She'll make it for you. The ultimate response. That is the response. Chef's listening to the show. That's the response. Tell me a little bit about Pepper Pop, though, because to me, that was a real high. Yeah. So Pepper Pot is the national dish of Guyana. It was really a combination of the Africans and the Amerindians that lived in the land, right? And the Amerindians had the idea and the method on how we were able to use casser. And, you know, Africans gather hunter meats. So what it is is this combination. Essentially, it's a meat stew. So you would use any game meat.

45:51In our restaurant, we use wild boar. One, it's an invasive species in Texas, but it's also very flavorful. And when you're able to get good wild boar, it's special. So you're essentially seasoning the meat the day before. and then we sear it and then we add the casserole. And as I mentioned before, what casserole means to me more than anything else, it was like this is an ingredient that comes directly from my country. And there's no way that I was going to make a version of it, right? As I said, we like making things ourselves. But that was one thing I was like, I am not going to do that. And I remember tasting caser probably when I was, what I can remember, I was like seven years old.

46:51And it was one of those moments where you're like, wow, this thing is like sweet, but it's a little bit spicy. And it has some like this notes of like bacon spices. So it was a flavor that I always, always, always remember. And as soon as you taste it one time, you can never forget it. And I was like, wow, like this is so good. I was seven years old and my aunt owned a factory. in Guyana. I say own a factory, but it was a really small time, right? And her daughter makes Gazrip now. So I just reached out to her and I was like, hey, would you mind? She's like, absolutely. Then we have to figure out how do we ship it from Guyana to the restaurant and all the details.

47:36You need a little bit more than a suitcase full for a restaurant. Yeah, you need a little bit more than that. So it was one of those things where that story was so important for me to tell through the food. Most people sitting there have no idea how deep and meaningful that is. Also, I only ate, you only eat cashew during Christmas time, right? Because it's a meat stew and there's not a lot. You grow up poor, so you don't eat meat every day. And when you're having that much meat, it's something that is special. So, you know, we got that. We worked it out. We got that in. And I wanted that to be on the menu because, one, it reminded me of my childhood every time I see or taste that dish.

48:18And two, I wanted to tell the story of that country in a most beautiful way and through the food. And to me, that's why that dish is so important that I would never take it off the menu because it's me. It's you. It's you. And you're using products directly from your home. Yeah. But, of course, you're using products directly from your new home. Yes. The wild boar. Absolutely. And, you know, I think, like, academically, that's a beautiful thing, but it has to be delicious. Yes. And, of course, it's got to be. It's popular. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of our top-selling dishes. Tell me about the pastry side briefly about kanji because I think literally you can go there and have dessert only.

49:03Yeah. And you're going to be happy. The Khaasribe ice cream, as you said, the flavor profile of the syrup is so unique. And when you have it in an ice cream form, it just really, really hits in a cool way. You've got the black cake, which I love as well. As a pastry chef, this was an important element of Kanji's menu. Yes, yeah, yeah. I had to do justice to the dessert also. So, yeah, we have black cake on the menu. Black cake, not a dish stemming from Guyana. That is the dessert that is, you know, it takes about a year to make because you have to ferment the fruit for an entire year. So you're fermenting your orange, your watermelon rind, sorrel.

49:49You're fermenting all of that in rum and red wine for an entire year. Then at the end of the year, you blend it and then you essentially make a pound cake and you fold it in two. bake the cake and then you soak it with more rum. So it is a lot of alcohol in there. But what that means is that it doesn't go bad, right? So I've had a 10-year-old cake before. That's wild. It's crazy, right? Because of the amount of rum and red wine and the fruit that are fermented in there. It's essentially something that you can put into your fridge. And what it does, it represents longevity. So you will eat that in the Caribbean at like weddings and birthdays because it's very sentimental for folks.

50:36So I had to do that on the menu because it's always a celebration when you come in the country. It's a memorable moment. And also I wanted to create something that you can't find everywhere you go. So the dessert menu was really curated to utilizing true, real dishes from the Caribbean. We got tres leches on there. We had to do a rum punch because you can't go nowhere in the Caribbean without having rum punch. So I got a sorbet. But what we did is we do three different flavors sorbet, and then we pour a shot of Demerara rum over the top. So you can't go wrong. Eldorado, sorry. So you can't go wrong with that, right?

51:21It's such a fun time. I'm going to have you back, and we're going to talk about San Antonio and your tasting menu there. You do a tasting dessert bar. I've always wanted to have a dessert bar like that in New York. We don't have one. It leads to my question, Tavell. New York City expansion. Do you touch it? Do you go there? There is a possibility, I think, for where we are right now. So we just opened up Pullman Market there in San Antonio. And now we're up to 12 restaurants. For us, it's now based on the deal and what is the offer. I love this. Yeah. Now we're in a space because the passion projects have worked its way out now.

52:09Now it's like, okay, let's just settle here. We have a few projects that we're really excited about and we would want to expand those projects. Right. So depending on how the deal is, that's where we're we'll just leave it there for now. We'll leave it there for now. Let's let's get like listen. Developers, listen to show. Let's get the deal. Get the deal done. I'd love to have your food in New York a little more frequently than my time in Austin. Hi there. It's Matt, co-host of the show. We are currently running a This Is Taste listener survey and we'd love to hear from you. Do you have a guest request?

52:47A restaurant you wish we'd visit to talk about on Three Things? What about a lesser-known cookbook author who deserves a spot in our studio chair? You can let us know by clicking the link in our show notes to complete the survey. It will only take a couple minutes, I swear, and will help us continue to make the best show possible. That's the This Is Taste listener survey, link in our show notes. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts. There's big talk about cooking simplicity, but you're usually left with disappointment after smashing that promo code.

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54:01I was super impressed, and I haven't even talked about the ribs, which I cooked in my Instant Pot. There was a rub of salt, white pepper, and togarashi, and I pressure cooked with water and apple cider vinegar. It was incredible. These ButcherBox ribs are amazing. For nearly a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free. As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free protein in every box for a year, plus$20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always.

54:41That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. On This is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? Oh, man. Sounds amazing. All right, let's go. The best fruit. Best fruit. Soursop. Yeah. What's the flavor profile? It is a combination between mango and pineapple, to best describe this. It's juicy. It has so much acid, so much antioxidants. It's good for your body. It's like one of my favorite hands-down fruit ever. The worst vegetable. Ooh. I don't think I've ever run into the worst vegetable before.

55:30I don't know if I've ever ran into a vegetable. You've got to have one. One vegetable that I will not, okay, let's say a vegetable that I don't really care for. Sure. Polite, you're polite. Politely, radishes. Yeah. I can do it out. Fair. Do you have a typical breakfast plan? Like, what are you doing for breakfast? I don't eat breakfast. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not a breakfast guy. If I'm going to eat breakfast, it'll probably be some self-scrambled eggs with caviar. I know it sounds fancy. But I only eat it once in a while. That's how often I eat breakfast. You're not a breakfast guy. This is why I asked the question.

56:08I wanted to get if you're a breakfast guy or not. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food? Italy. Favorite city? Florence. What's the dish? Amazing food. Restaurant called Zaza. The dish that I had there, they're a combination between Indian and Italian. Oh, beautiful. The dish that I had there that was very memorable, I would say. They did this, like, gnocchi, but it was like in this like beautiful coconut curry sauce. I dream about that dish to this day. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. Oof. Restaurant that I can bring back from the dead. It's a restaurant in Austin.

56:52It was called Texas French Bread. They closed. That was a restaurant that, yeah, they had some amazing pastas there that I really liked. Yeah. Their bread program was great. Really good. Your favorite cookbook of all time? Favorite cookbook of all time has to be, well, I got two. What's Cooking in Guyana was the first book that inspired me as a chef. and Professional Bacon was the first bacon book that I've ever picked up when I went to school. And they both, it really transformed the way I view the world. Wow. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Oof. Favorite sandwich. I'm not a big sandwich guy, but what I will say is I've had an egg sandwich where it was egg salad, fried egg, salsa matcha between two breads.

57:56This idea is genius. It was so good. You get the fried, you get the scramble, you get the salsa matcha. Absolutely. Is this like at a Mexican spot? I can't even remember where I got that sandwich from. Yeah. But I know I remember eating it, and I think I got that sandwich somewhere in Wisconsin. It was like a spot that you walked in. and actually I made that shit up. Now I'm thinking about it. They were doing the egg sandwich. That's a regular egg sandwich. And I was like, yo, can you fry an egg and put it on that for me? And the dude was like, yeah, I can do it. And then there was salsa matcha and I just put some salsa matcha on it.

58:39It was the favorite sandwich I bet that. You invented it. That was it. It sounds braggy, man. We gonna listen to this show and they'll be like, this dude is... No, it's exactly, your memory was that it was from a restaurant, but it was actually your brain. Yeah. Tavell Bristol-Joseph, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Yeah, I appreciate you, Matt. Thank you so much for inviting me.

59:08Hey, Liza, what is up? How are you? I'm good, Matt. How are you? I'm great because we are in spring cookbook season right now. Yeah, the weather is not spring, but the bookshelf is spring. Yes, the spring colors are blooming on my shelf. And we're here to talk about some of our, I would say, some of the books that we're looking forward to being released this spring. You know, we haven't read every single one of these. We've checked out the PDFs. But these are titles that we just want to talk about. We're excited. Yeah, I think it's such a good season for cookbooks. And there are even more than the ones we're going to talk through today.

59:44and certainly a lot of authors that we'll have on the show as well. But these are some of the ones that we're jumping off the page, at least. Absolutely. And we will come back with another couple spring previews on the show. We have some surprise guests talking about their lists. And we also just will have our own in three things and just popping in from time to time. Do you want to start? Yeah, I'll start. Yeah. OK, the first book that I'm excited about is called In the Cusina. It's by Woldy Reyes, who is a Filipino, like plant-based, mostly cook here in New York. Woldy is a buddy of mine through the food scene here.

1:00:17He does a lot of catering for events. And I think he's really known for this beautiful, vibrant, like contemporary Filipino style. And his book I'm really excited about because he's kind of encapsulating his family history, the family recipes that he's adapted to be plant-based in some cases. And everything looks really good. I want to make this kabocha squash lumpia. Oh, yeah. Also his babinka cake, which is a very bouncy, squishy cake he's kind of known for here in New York. He's even done it for a cake scene event before, which I was really pleased with. And he has a couple of babinka recipes.

1:00:49So I think those will be some of the first things. I love it. Well, I'll jump in next. And my first book is Pakistan by Mariam Jelani. Mariam is somebody I've known for a long time. She was actually a cook-in residence at Taste six years ago. And I've had the pleasure of working with her. And this book, to me, is extremely my kind of book. It's very, very editorial. She grew up in Islamabad, Pakistan, and, you know, has traveled throughout the country. She's also lived throughout the world and has a really cool point of view on this complex food identity. and you know just reading through the incredible prose here the introduction and many of the chapter openers I learned a lot and you know she lived in a Pakistan that was certainly affected by partition you know that that is a very complex and and and hard topic to write about I would say Miriam's real talent is just the full editorial package it's the writing it's the recipe development and the editorial photography.

1:01:53It's gorgeous, this book. I'm so thrilled for her and I can't wait to talk to her on the show about it. Yeah, I think that'll be such a fun episode. Yeah. The next book that I'll call out is called Fat and Flour by Nicole Rucker, who is one of my favorite bakers probably ever. She has a bakery in LA called Fat and Flour, which I love going to whenever I'm back in LA. And I also really loved her first book, which is called Dappled, which is all fruit baking recipes, which is definitely my kind of book. And I think this one is just a really like expert way into baking and pastry. She has a lot of techniques that I've never seen before, this kind of cold butter technique.

1:02:31And a lot of the recipes just sound so good, like a white chocolate banana cream pie. I love banana cream pie. And hers are great. Yeah, her pies, she's known for her pies specifically. She had like a specific pie bakery in Grand Central Market before Fat and Flour. And then also some of the recipes are just this really expansive look into technique and variation. Like there's six kinds of chocolate chip cookies. There's five kinds of brownies. There's six kinds of banana bread. So I think if you are looking for that kind of like expansive baking book, this is maybe the one. I can't wait to see the book.

1:03:03I haven't checked it out yet. But Nicole is a friend and has been on the show in the past. And I've always enjoyed her cooking. She had a restaurant that was a non-bakery that I liked. And she has fat and flour, of course. What a singular voice in pastry. Love that one. What's your next one? My next one is from Rick Martinez. He is back. Oh, I'm so happy Rick is back with another book. Yeah, he's such a thoughtful, thoughtful guy. And Mico Sina, his first book was just a breakout hit. And we know Rick from his days at BA. I believe you worked with him and know him from your time there. Yeah, when I started at Bon Appetit, Rick was there.

1:03:39And I was always like the most excited when his recipes would go up for tasting in the test kitchen. He's really such a talented recipe developer. So this book is called Salsa Daddy. I mean, for real, that's such a great title. It's perfect. Perfect title. I have to call out the team. It's Alex Beggs and Alex Lau working on this book. Two people I have such respect for. Alex Beggs is a prolific collaborator and writer. And of course, Alex Lau is a talented photographer. And it all comes together in this magnum opus about the world of salsa. And I mean, for me, I love salsa. I've been eating it since I was eight years old, you know, cracking that jar in the Midwest.

1:04:22And that's how I knew salsa. You know, moving to New York, I learned a great deal. You grow up in L.A., you have your salsa opinions, I'm sure. And I just I love the way these recipes develop. And I mean, he's got a salsa, a sweet and sour plum with jammy tart plums and Fresno chilies and garlic. He's got a Yucatan salsa. with tomato and habanero and sour orange. I think he's kind of expanding the salsa universe. You know, you don't know salsa until you've tried Rick's salsas, is kind of the point of view here. And I love that he's got, you know, he breaks from the salsa recipes and has a whole section about frying chips and plantains.

1:05:00He does a whole section on salsa matcha, and he does a peanut salsa matcha, which is quite the project recipe, but he makes it very, very clear on how you're doing it. He's just such a talented recipe developer. And then at the end, he has some recipes. So it's not just about making the salsas, it's cooking with it. And he's got tortas, tacos and quesadillas and one dessert. And I think you're doing the interview with him for the show. And I'd love to hear about he has one dessert recipe. That's a little teaser. It's pretty amazing. The book is Salsa Daddy by Rick Martinez. I love it. So good.

1:05:32Yeah, I can't wait to talk to Rick about it. I think the point of view that you can make a salsa and have that in your fridge and have it be the jumping off point for whatever else you want to cook is really smart and just something that's really appealing to me. Yeah. Okay. The next book I want to talk about is By Heart by Haley Catalano, who's one of my favorite food developers, content creators to follow online. I think a lot of people know Haley and Chuck, her partner, who they live together, and they both are doing amazing videos. I loved chatting with them both in the studio, I think a couple years ago at this point.

1:06:02But I think it's really exciting to see a debut book from Haley. She just does the kind of food that I want to eat always. And a lot of recipes that, you know, I've seen her do on Instagram or maybe she has a version of on her website. She's kind of expanding on and rounding out and having in this book her big beach sandwiches that I always like. That's my favorite kind of video to watch is her making these beautiful, elaborate sandwiches and then packing them up and bringing them to the beach. She has one with like brie and butter with shallots and frisee. That sounds really good to me. Yeah.

1:06:29She has a figgy tapioca pudding that I really want to eat. It's just the kind of like soothing, comforting, delicious seasonal food that really like makes me feel like, yes, I actually should add another cookbook to my collection. I love Haley's point of view. And I just think when I mentioned Haley in passing in our building at Penguin Random House or just friends in food media, everyone's like literally like she is my favorite because I just think that the way that these videos unfold, there's a lot of like really smart cooking tricks there, but also she's got such creativity with the recipes.

1:07:03Yeah. And she has a really strong restaurant background. Yeah. That's apparent from the way that she sprinkles salt in a video to the way that she's developing and writing these recipes. Yeah. My next one is Sesame by Rachel Simons. Rachel is the founder and owner of Seed & Mill, which is a shop in Chelsea Market known for their tahini products, halva and tahini. and one of my favorite founders. I've had her on the show, and we have such a great time catching up. And, you know, Sesame is a book that there's a lot of desserts. There's like a sesame and miso peach crumble and a bittersweet chocolate tahini tart.

1:07:38But then on the savory side, you know, there's a great tahini granola recipe and some crunchy sumac chickpeas with tahini. And I just like the way she expands tahini in many different ways, creative ways in the food universe. So I think like Rachel's book has the best cover, too. I have to say that. The cover is incredible. They got an illustrated cover. Judge's book by its cover. It's so good. That's Sesame by Rachel Simons. The next book that I want to shout out is called Setting a Place for Us. It's by Hawa Hassan, who wrote In Bibi's Kitchen, which is such a special book that I love having in my collection.

1:08:13And I think this is one of the most ambitiously reported cookbook concepts I've ever seen before. It's a collection of essays and recipes, which is also how MBB's Kitchen was structured. And this is exploring the history of eight countries that have been impacted by geopolitical conflict and talking about how that conflict has impacted cuisine and food systems. I think that this is a topic that I'm personally really interested in learning more about. And I really trust Hawa's reporting. And I know she spent years traveling to these countries, meeting with home cooks, talking about their stories and tracing how that has impacted how they're cooking.

1:08:46I think it's just the kind of information that is hard to find really anywhere else. And also the recipes, I think, sound really special. For example, papusas con cortito, which are like papusas with that cabbage slaw from El Salvador, fava bean fritters from Egypt, ground peanut soup from Liberia. And I think getting to read the context behind all of these recipes is just the thing that will really set this book apart. So that's setting a place for us. What a great project. I loved MBB's Kitchen and how I was such a terrific journalist. and this important work. So I'm glad she's publishing it.

1:09:18Yeah, and I'm excited to have her into the studio and have a much longer conversation just about this concept and how she brought this book to life because I'm sure there are a lot of good stories there. My next book is a fun one, Every Day with Babs, 101 Family Friendly Dinners for every day of the week. It's from Barbara Costello. We know her as Babs Online. And I didn't know much about Babs until we agreed to do an event together. We will be appearing live at Rizzoli in New York City on April 8th, and I'll have a great conversation with her there. Tickets are on sale now. Check it out. But she is, in her words, a home cook, mother of four, grandmother of eight, and the adopted grandmother of two million viewers.

1:09:58I think that's really funny. And I just like the way she is obviously – she's a grandmother. She's cooking for her grandchildren and hosting. And I mean, this is like pure Americana, warm hug bacon pasta, salsa verde fish tostadas, mini van pepperoni pizza chicken and some desserts like her famous chocolate chip cookies. I just think Babs is really a lot of fun and has a lot of fans out there. And this book is, I think, a big crossover from creator to cookbook that is really working. And I loved paging through it in advance of our conversation. April 8th at Rizoli, we're appearing. Yeah, I'm so excited about that.

1:10:37I am one of the two million who consider her to be adoptive grandma. And I think that it's really special to have that kind of generational wisdom that's being passed down and kind of enshrined in a book as well. And I would imagine that in addition to the recipes, she has a lot of those kind of hosting, cleaning techniques, too. Oh, yeah. What's your last one? My last one is called The Guma, and it's by Norma Rod, who you might know her name because she's been a part of the Otolenghi Test Kitchen universe for a while. I really loved the last cookbook that she worked on with Otolinghi that was called Extra Good.

1:11:08And this is an intro to the food that she grew up with in Bahrain, which is not a country that I've had a lot of food from before. So I'm really excited to get to learn more about what the Bahrainian cuisine is like and also just kind of Nora's point of view outside of the Otolinghi test kitchen. Some of the recipes that I want to make are springtime fattouche, stuffed baby eggplant, or, you know, she says aubergine because they're British. They're British. slow cooked fenugreek lamb with pickled chilies, pistachio cake with lapna. I think especially as spring is approaching and there's all these really beautiful green herb heavy recipes, this book is kind of the way that I want to be cooking in a month or two from now.

1:11:45I love that you mentioned Noor's book. I got to spend a little time with Noor and Yodam before. And speaking with Noor, there's like no sharper mind with recipe development and being a leader in the Otolinghi Test Kitchen really had Noor cooking across cuisines and cultures. So it's so cool to see Noor focus on the foods of Bahrain and tell her own personal story, you know, stepping out from the Adelanghi shadow and having her own moment. But I just know without having seen this book that the recipes are going to work just because of the rigor that she puts into her previous cookbooks. And I really I really love catching up with her.

1:12:17I hope to have her into the studio to hear all about this book. My last one is The Choi of Cooking. It is the next book from Roy Choi. No, Roy is an icon. He's the founder of Kogi in Los Angeles and has appeared on many culinary shows and Netflix shows. And he's just around our world. And I've gotten to know Roy over the years as somebody who comes from a really, really, really strong fine dining background and then ended up opening up Kogi and just changing the way we thought about Korean food in America with the Korean kimchi taco. But this book, he's lightened things up. He's really focusing on eating healthy and trying to take a little bit of a spin through some of these fusion-y Korean-American dishes like kimchi, Philly cheesesteak, and he's got a cold bibim noodles salad.

1:13:08Just looking at the package, having the book in advance, it's really visually extremely fun. Lots of sidebars, lots of voice in there. And I think Roy writes terrific books, and I'm happy he's putting one out this spring. Well, Liza, it's been really fun catching up about spring cookbooks. I can't wait to make many of these recipes. Have some of the authors on the show. Yeah, me too.

1:13:33This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.