564: TASTE Travels: Eating Really Well in Victoria, British Columbia

26:30So I have seen the movies and I do quote them with my friends. Oh, you do. So you're the cocktails are themed after Twilight. And I believe Twilight was filmed in Victoria. Lots of filming in Victoria. It's a popular destination. This is the kind of killer. Bella was the name of a cocktail with sherry, cherries, and mezcal. Every cocktail is named after a Twilight reference. Many of them. Maybe not everyone, but like Tamar picked it up right away. I'm unfamiliar with the Twilight series. You have some homework, I guess. I know. I was like, this is cool. And she was right away like, this is rad.

27:02So I like this place, Hanks. You know, I didn't get to have a full meal there, so the jury's still out. But I really, I like this meal. It's good. So moving on, I wanted to do some non-food. Of course, I went to the bookstore. But Bouchard Gardens, have you heard of this name at all? Do you know that name? It is ringing a bell for me. In Victoria. And like when I said I was going, I had family and I was kind of doing my research, like poking around. Everyone's like, go to the gardens. Now, when you go to the gardens in February, there are no gardens. So, but we had a beautiful tour, wonderful staff there gave us a tour.

27:36and we walked the grounds and we could get a sense of the way the garden is laid out and really just beautiful in the winter just seeing this these old cedars and these beautiful redwoods just like amongst these these gardens and you know there's all sorts of styles there's a sunken garden a rose garden with hundreds of varieties of roses Japanese garden they do fireworks every weekend there I need to go back during the summertime seems like a must in Victoria but But there is a food element there that I got to experience. Okay, I'm picturing like mulled wine or cider or something. Am I on track?

28:09They had that in one. Yes, you're on track for one of the dining rooms does, you know, cocktails and warm drinks. Hot toddies, as you call them. Yes. We got to actually enjoy something that you can book ahead, which I really recommend. It's high tea in the British style. And I really liked the way they did the service. Canterbury Teas does all the teas there. And I just really liked the dishes, you know, lots of like little little sandwiches with like they had a wild British Columbia smoked salmon, rillette with chives in middle of a croissant. They had a grabiche egg salad with Dijon and Cornichon.

28:45And then they had a bunch of sweets, of course. So high tea, I'm really not like that aware of a formal high tea service, but it's like truly a meal. It's like having like lunch. and then on the sweet side, you know, carrot cake and, you know, some salted caramel mousse and just, like, really nice place. And I think if you're visiting Victoria, especially in the spring, summer, or fall and you're going to see the gardens in bloom, book this ahead. Like, a great tip, I think, is to have, like, this beautiful tea service. Really, really, really well done. Highly recommend. I love this. Do you get to eat, like, triangle-cut sandwiches with the crusts cut off?

29:21You know it. Okay. You're visioning it. As one should. On multiple layers. Tears. Tears, they call that. Tears. So they had like, you know, the sweets tear and the sandwich tear and really, really fun. Like, I love the room. It's like flooded with light. And, you know, the gardens, I'm sure in the, you know, in the full bloom is beautiful. How lovely. Bouchard Gardens. Gotta go there. Linking to all these spots in the show notes. But as an aside, I got to meet with Isabel Chung and she's taking over the kitchen at Fairmont Empress. And I don't have too many details. She told me some off-the-record things that I can't really say.

29:55But, you know, Isabel has worked for 25 years in Hawaii and parts of Canada and is such a talent. I read up on Isabel's career. And I just have to say we had a great chat at the Fairmont Empress. So check that out. Well, Liza, those were a few of my recommendations. I have more to come. But for now, enjoy this interview with Lori Joyce. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. If you're one of those last-minute shoppers, you might know the feeling. Ideas are running low and the clock is ticking. Here's a fun idea. Aura Frames. Aura Frames is the solution with a gift that feels personal, a little curated, and sent with love.

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33:29Lori Joyce, welcome to This Is Taste. It's really great to connect with you. This is awesome. Thanks, Matt. So I was in your shop, Better Acres in Victoria, and we had a great time. You tasted me through a bunch of your flavors, but I found out about your story, and it's really remarkable, and we're going to get into it. You've got so many cool things going on, but I want to first, just from the jump, what's up with Better Acres? I know it's a newer business. What are you doing there? I'm making the world's best ice cream. Didn't you experience that? I love how you said that to me when we were when we were scooping or picking our scoops.

34:08You're like, you know, this is the world's best ice cream. And I'm like, well, I've had some ice cream in my day. I will be the judge. Yes, Laurie, truly amazing ice cream. You're really making something special. So I agree. You know, you are just as impressive. You are very technical with your knowledge on ice cream. You're being kind. I mean, I guess I've had some scoops. No, it's just it's nice to talk to someone that appreciates actually what I'm doing, like really understands how, you know, you understood how unstable the base is and how valuable that is. You got that. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely part of this job.

34:51I, you know, twist my arm to try some ice cream and talk about it. But but for real, like you really do have incredible ice cream that has this texture that is hard to do. And, you know, flavor profiles and flavors that speak to me. And we were talking a lot about pistachio because that's like a that's a tough one to do and do it right. And I really love yours. Oh, thank you. Well, you know, ice cream's funny that way, right? Because everyone enjoys ice cream, but everyone has a different standard of ice cream. Most people just think ice cream is ice cream. And to me, that's like saying bread is bread.

35:25It's just not the same. So when I meet someone that is as passionate about quality, like real whole ingredients, I mean, we'll be friends for life. Yeah. And let's talk about the ice cream itself. You're using dairy from British Columbia, and you're really about the farm. You grew up on a farm, and you had gardens in your life. Really, talk about how you think about these flavors. Well, I hope you felt this when you came into the shop, because I really wanted the shop to feel like you were in my farmhouse. I want everyone that comes into the shop to feel like they're walking into my home, I want them to feel the heritage.

36:05I want them to feel like truly my upbringing. And so growing up on a farm in Victoria, born and raised, my first dairy source was my own cow, like literally for the first 10 years of my life. And I really understood how important and the quality of that was when we no longer had her. There's a very big difference. Yeah. And how do you take that ethic and do it at scale and make it, you know, you know, doing all of these hundreds of gallons a week? How are you able to do that? Well, it's actually really easy to make good ice cream. People find that so confusing, but it's always like mass-produced product in general, it's always modified or it's always filled with cheaper ingredients for margins.

36:56And, you know, so initially when I started, I took the knowledge of my upbringing, really understanding cream and full fat. And, you know, as well as I do, the value of a high butterfat percentage. And that's and that's why this all started. Like, let me tell you, when my two boys and I think a lot of kids, you know, ice cream is probably one of their first food experiences. And I was the mom shopping in the grocery store, buying ice cream, you know. And because of my upbringing and because I was already in the food business, to me, I was really surprised and really very much disappointed when I discovered that what I thought was ice cream was actually called frozen dessert.

37:40I really, that's how and why this all started. I was just like, wow, this is not even called ice cream. Why is that? I didn't understand that there's actually a percentage difference of what can be considered ice cream, which is, you know, more than 10 % butterfat versus frozen dessert, which is less than 10%. So because of my upbringing on the farm, which was so important to me, it was like ingrained in me, it was my normal. It just seemed pretty obvious to me that there was an opportunity to make a better ice cream product. So, and let me be clear, you know, I'm not making thousands of gallons a week or per day.

38:20We passionately make and source ingredients and we make ice cream for our shop. And then now we're in grocery and we use a co-man for that. And they just have to follow very diligently my recipe and source those same ingredients. Great, great, great thoughts there about the difference in quality. And I think we definitely look at ice cream in many different ways. And sometimes it's just whatever we can get. It's just what we're going to scoop on top of like some pie. But then when you go into a shop and you have somebody who's really has a pastry background as a pastry chef and doing great flavors, it's a different thing.

39:00And more and more people are, you know, paying more for ice cream because it's like a cronut. You know, you're going, it's like it should be considered pastry, not just this throwaway dessert. Well, firstly, Matt, I don't want to take credit where I shouldn't. I am not a pastry chef. Let's be clear. We'll get into your background because there's a really sneaky thing about your background. But let's stick with ice cream now, but it's cupcake related. I want to know, like, when we're walking into Better Acres and we're there, like, in the summertime, great time to visit Victoria. What is the selection?

39:38What's the menu looking like? Well, I'm going to have to tone it down this summer. We're going to have to stick to 12. And that's actually 12 flavors. And that's a situation that I'm dealing with right now because what 12 flavors are those going to be? Because it seems like everyone is so interested in, I mean, there's two different customers. They're the customers like yourself that appreciate the quality and the simplicity and the true indulgence of real quality ice cream. They're not looking for crazy inclusions and sprinkles. But then there's also, because of where we're located, I mean, this is a pedestrian-only street.

40:17This is a street where sometimes there are three cruise ships in town at the same time. and there's thousands of, it's like literally thousands of people walking by the door all day. It's an incredible shopping situation and opportunity, not only for myself, but also for these people that, you know, Victoria attracts people from all over the world. It's fascinating. And so how do I create a product that really every type of person is going to enjoy? And that's why I'm quite excited because I get to do what I know. And I feel that because of my upbringing, which is a tremendous European influence, it seems like a lot of people right now, because we're living in a time where there appears to be this crazy uncertainty, instability, I think people just crave comfort.

41:15and for me comfort is simple and quality and um so i'm choosing my favorite 12 flavors that really resonate with old world um a european kind of influence like for example my rocky road remember it's typical rocky road but then i've added amarina cherry into it because it's my heritage. So it's a little different, but there's still that comfort there. And just doing the best of the classic flavors that these cruise ship people that are my parents' age, quickly, it transcends them to their childhood, essentially. They're like, wow, this is, yeah, this really tastes like Fudger Kohl's from the 80s kind of thing.

42:00What about your strawberry? I think strawberry is one of those flavors where, you know, you can take many directions. I think there's like obviously the haagen-dazs to many is the north star you may disagree um but but how do you think about this flavor that you know when you go to victoria in the spring and summer you've got strawberries there and you're using them yeah but there's this there's this local farm called gaily strawberries and um they're right in season um i was i mean this really was the definition of labor of love. We were, we were buying flats and then hand-washing them and literally soaking the strawberries overnight in our cream base.

42:39So it was strawberries and cream and people were lining up. It seemed like for days and in the back, you know, we had like nine flats that we were hand washing. It was ridiculous. To be honest with you, Matt, I don't even know if I can pull that off this year. It was just, it was just because, because of course then you have to like dehydrate them because 99 % of a strawberry is water. And because our base doesn't have any gums in it, water is our enemy. Right. So it was a very technical flavor to make. Really, really cool that you can have some local strawberries when you're visiting. And I want to ask you about the flavor that has broken you or a flavor that is your grail that you are pursuing that maybe in future months you'll be able to crack the code for?

43:28That would be – it's a secret I don't want to say. Okay. I don't want to talk about it on here. You'll have to come. Okay, you know what? You're going to do it? You're going to break some news? Why don't we just call it breaking news? I'm going to just send it to you, and then you tell me first what you think. All right, all right. We'll keep it. You keep keeping it hush-hush. I appreciate that. Because it really is a farm thing. Okay. It's an unusual flavor. Oh, man. Can you give us a hint? We grow it here. Okay. There you go. And you know what was amazing is, and the customer was ready for it, which was super cool, is I was able to incorporate herbs from our garden.

44:17like just chop up herbs from our garden like when i did the um dark chocolate sea salt with rosemary like right from the farm um did you try that when you were there i didn't try that one no i don't think i made that i made that happen yeah we live in a bit of a microclimate here in victoria like it's actually parallel to you know parts of the mediterranean so there are things that we're now able to grow and i do believe in climate change and thanks to climate change um it offers more diversity. And it's really interesting. So like, for example, my parents have brought all of their knowledge from growing up in Croatia.

44:55So they're planting and they're growing a lot of European fruits that, you know, maybe in the eighties and nineties weren't that popular, but they're really popular today. And I'll be incorporating, or I have incorporated some of that stuff into the ice cream. Like, you know, we'll do roasted fig from our figs. You saw the fruit stand in the shop. Well, yeah, I mean, let me just say, like, when you walk into the shop during season, it's a farm stand. You can buy produce at your store, which is cool for an ice cream shop. Really unique point of view there. I like to say that I'm bringing the country into the city.

45:29And when I was building out the shop, I actually discovered that, because, of course, I live like 20 minutes from downtown. So I wasn't that familiar with the offerings down there. But I was like, wow, they're really, if I came off a cruise ship, the first thing that I would want would be something like local, like fresh fruit, ideally something that really represented that local area. And I learned pretty quickly that you can't find that in downtown Victoria. Like the closest grocery store is like five blocks from where I am. And so I was like, wow, I'm going to, I'm going to put a fruit stand in here.

46:09And it was people loved it. They were like, wow, this is this was picked this morning from a farm 20 minutes away that I, of course, can't get to because, you know, we got to be back on the boat in two hours. And so that was a that was great. Tell me about the visitors to Victoria and why, as a local, you know, the food scene is so unique. I mean, you talk about these boom times during the summer, but there's also like spring and fall and like it's not all about the cruise element. I mean, I was there in the winter, so there was nobody really there, which was awesome for me, to be honest. But what's it like visiting Victoria and why is it such a special place to visit for food?

46:45Well, in the off season, especially because it's so mild here, you know, like, for example, on the farm today. I'm going to eat lunch after this phone call. And most of the stuff that I'm going to eat was picked out of the ground this morning. So what makes Victoria really unique is that we can grow and forage and hunt and fish all year round and feed our families. And, you know, that's, that's truly the reason why we did the store is because when the pandemic came, my, my parents are older and they were really ready to sell. And, um, but then pandemic came and my dad realized that we didn't have to wait in line at the grocery store because our freezers were full of food.

47:29And that's when it truly was that full circled moment of we have food security. This is how valuable this farm is, is like, we have one chestnut tree that's 30 years old and it will feed us all year round. And, um, and so, you know, it was like, okay, how can we keep the farm, survive this, maintain it, afford it. And, um, you know, that's, that's why when you go to the shop, you really, you can read through, you know, on the walls, there's this, I tell the story as to, um, why I did the store, right. It's a tribute to keeping the farm and thanking my parents for everything that they did. So it's, it's, it's, I'm hoping it's going to be the way that we get to keep the farm and ultimately inherit the farm.

48:16Very, very cool story, Laurie. Thanks for sharing that. I think it's remarkable that, you know, you got through the pandemic and, you know, soon enough, you opened up a shop right in the middle of downtown Victoria. And I mean, you're, you're, you're serving, you're doing some scoops in the summertime, right? How many, how many are you doing a day do you think? Well, easily, easily almost a thousand. I mean, And it was crazy. Wow. Like it was, it was, we didn't, so I, you know, as you can imagine, I'm bootstrapping this, right? So we had to get open in time for summer for obvious reasons. And so when we opened the door, I couldn't afford signage for like the first, I don't think I had signage up until like the end of September.

48:55And so, so this is a, this is an example of being at the right place at the right time, right? We just opened the doors and I have this picture that I'm going to frame one day because it just represents what I just said. We opened the door and all of a sudden there was people in the door. It was amazing. It just really calmed me down because it's like, how am I going to pay rent? How am I going to get through this? We did it. We did it and immediately people connected with the product and loved it. And all day, every day, every week, and so far every month, I get this, can I talk to you? Can I say something?

49:38And I'm like, I always feel like I'm in trouble for something. And they're like, I travel a lot. Like, because as I mentioned earlier, there's a lot of people from all over the world that come to Victoria, which is, I didn't know that. And I find that fascinating. And I'm so thrilled to experience that. and these people are like you know I like ice cream and I get ice cream everywhere I go but this is truly I think the best ice cream I've ever had yeah yeah I had a similar feeling when I walked in you know I you know try a lot of ice cream as I mentioned and when you when you try a special product and you you get the story and you meet Lori you meet you it's like holy cow this is a really unique spot I want to ask you I know it's hard because you're local and you have a lot of opinions about restaurants but i mean i on this episode i've shared many of my favorite experiences but i was a mere tourist i was just there you know checking out the scene but as a local what are a couple maybe three restaurants that you just really love that you think our listeners should should visit we live 20 minutes from um downtown victoria and if you if for people that have the opportunity to take an Uber or get on the bus.

50:49There's amazing restaurants that have been around a long time that are just outside of town. So still 20 minutes away. But they really do a very good job of representing what Victoria and Vancouver Island are all about. Deep Cove Chalet, which is in Deep Cove, which is closer to the airport, closer to the ferry. So it's actually not that inconvenient. And it's in an old house that's literally on the water that is surrounded by gardens where they're growing their own vegetables and herbs that incorporate into the dishes. But it's a very humble home. It makes you feel like you're going to your aunt and uncle's on a Sunday dinner every day of the week.

51:33And it's old school. There's a lot of British influence here in Victoria. And so it really kind of gives you that vibe. It makes you feel like you're going into someone's home in the seventies. It's cozy, it's humble, it's very elegant and understated. So Deep Cove Chalet would be a place that you'd celebrate special events. Recently opened, maybe a couple of years, maybe right after the pandemic as well. situated right beside the ferry in a small hidden marina is fox and monocle super talented owner operator chef also sourcing local ingredients hyper seasonality on the menu which is really important to me i really understand that living on a farm which you don't get in mainstream restaurants everything is made fresh i mean every time i go there which is not that often but the croissants are still warm.

52:35Like, like Matt, that's my standard. Right. You gotta, you gotta make sure it was baked that day. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I'm going into a place and the croissant is still warm, I'm going back there all the time. Like it's, she does a phenomenal job. So Fox and Monocle is a good one. And then actually right downtown Victoria, like if you don't have the time and you've got to stay on foot, there's some really good hidden gems like in Chinatown and um I don't know if you went to Hank's I did go to Hank's I really liked my meal did you really yeah yeah I went to Hank's of course isn't that cool like that whole like real again like you kind of I'm impressed Matt that you went there like who told you about that place I had a I had a local or somebody who knew the area uh hit me to it yeah it's it's like that's a local spot Zombrey's also like very reliable makes you feel like you're, you know, hanging out with some crazy Italian family.

53:33And then what's incredible, what's happening now, because Victoria has changed a lot. Like, you know, when I grew up here, Victoria was really boring. Like it was the town of the newlywed and the nearly dead. That was kind of the slogan. And now it's very artistic, real celebration of culture. And so there's these really cool farm restaurants that are opening up, like up Island, but you know, the vineyards and, you know, like day trips, a lot of that. It's great. I forgot, you know, our co-host Eliza and I were going over some of my, my, my, my places. And I just remembered one I didn't mention.

54:12Um, Le Petit Saigon. That's the Vietnamese place. You told me about that, Lori. I went on our last night, got to meet one of the owners who runs it with her mom. I forget her name. And I'm kind of, I'm bummed I didn't share this with Eliza, but honestly, this bowl of pho, it really, really is special. I really, really like that bowl of pho. It's amazing. I am so I'm so happy to hear that you took me up on that. That place is isn't that don't you feel like you're in Vietnam? I mean, I've never been to Vietnam, but I feel like that's what it would feel like if you're I've been to Vietnam. And honestly, that's a great call.

54:54I think the way it's the the pho served and we had, you know, I'd be fun. It was I think the the what I liked about it was the broth and the the stock that is clearly. the most important part of that meal. And I had a little joke where, you know, people, unfortunately, when they have pho, they'll won't even taste the broth and will start dumping shit in it. And that's really offensive because this broth is so, it's like a compliment. It's a beautiful broth. And, you know, it's a little spot that you had recommended. So I'm sorry, I forgot that you had recommended it to me and a local did. And it really is worth, and I love the vibe inside.

55:36It felt really, really, really warm and cozy. And that's the thing that's so interesting about Victoria is that there is such a, I mean, we have a very old Asian heritage here. Yes, yes you do. Right? And so that's a second generation family that owns it. They've been around a long time, like 20 plus years. They really cater to the locals. And, you know, when I, so I discovered them when I was building up the shop. and unfortunately I never got to eat there when we were building it up because I always, they just, you know, they're working there all day. So by eight o 'clock, they're like, sorry.

56:13No, they just kept on turning me down, which of course made me want to go there even more. But yeah, it's awesome. I'm so, I'm thrilled to hear that. Yeah, it's definitely worth a visit. Now, I want to just like circle back to your career before you started an ice cream shop and I read your bio And if I wouldn't have met you, I probably would have been like, hmm, suspicious. But I know you, this this seemed to be true. You co-founded the world's first cupcake bakery. You ended up starring on a reality TV show that was played in, you know, many countries, including in America on Food Network. And so, like, your voice is here.

56:56Maybe folks may even know you from your face and we'll have an illustration of you up at the top. So they'll know Lori Joyce. But this is like a really interesting background. You know what's so funny is because I only moved back here like during the pandemic, I've met new people and new friends. And I don't ever lead with that because it was obviously so long ago. But I met someone maybe four years ago and I – because she asked me, you know, she kind of started drilling me as to my background and I ended up telling her. and she told me that she went home and Googled me because she thought I might be crazy.

57:35She was like, this girl told me that she used to have a TV show. My best friend and I also from Victoria. So we grew up together. And as girlfriends, we always talked about starting a business together. And that didn't happen. We went our own ways. I went to university. And then this job brought us back together. And I was actually a sales rep at a local industrial odor control product, phenomenal product that took me back to New York. And I set up distribution there. This is in 2001. Having the time of my life, this is truly when I fell in love with New York. You know, I'm in, I just graduated university.

58:15I'm probably like early twenties. And right after setting up that distribution, I got called back to go because of September 11th and they needed the product. And, um, I, there I was this little young Canadian girl, um, working on site, setting up this incredible odor control product and firemen would stand in front of this fan and they would just tell me, they'd thank me. Like I was, I had a real positive impact with this product. I was changing their work environment. It was, it was a fascinating, but very sobering experience. Um, you know, I'm sure you're a New Yorker, right? Like you remember?

58:58Yeah. Yeah. Really, really all, all of fall of 2001 and what it felt like. And, um, and so just to get a relief, I took Heather to Magnolia bakery before it became quote unquote, the world famous Magnolia bakery. and they happened to have the cupcakes in the corner in this little table. And I think I mentioned this when I met you, but because of my very traditional European upbringing, I never wanted what my mom made. So my mom would labor over these like this hand, like she made her own filo pastry, like with the apples. Cause we, our first farm, we had like 500 apple trees. and so it was like this very decadent fancy European dessert and I just wanted rice crispy squares and cupcakes right like I was the kid trading prosciutto sandwiches in elementary school for PB &J like I really wanted to fit in I think I was the only kid that English was a second language um my parents were very different I'm the only one that lived on a farm my parents had a very thick accent, you know, like there was all these things working.

1:00:10I felt it was working against me. And I just wanted to be this like little Canadian girl that fit in and have cupcakes and Rice Krispie squares. And my mom would never make any of that. Well, firstly, she didn't know how to, but she would never make it. She would never do that. So I was really excited because Magnolia was making these beautiful cupcakes and they were delicious. And we, I bought a box of They came in an unmarked white box. Oh, really? No branding even then? No, no. This was literally September of 2001. And it was, it was like, this is really, the only people that knew about Magnolia were people that lived in the village.

1:00:49And the only reason why I was in the village is because that I was staying with a friend also from Victoria who was living in the village. and in the cab ride back to work as I had like three cupcakes, I think Heather maybe got a crumb. She was like, this is what we should do. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like neither one of us had worked in food. We'd worked in retail and in fashion and now this order control company, but neither one of us knew how to bake. And I cut her, you know, typical best friend reaction. I totally cut her down for it. I thought that was a ridiculous idea.

1:01:26And, um, as things progressed, I worked, you know, I set up this company for this incredible opportunity that fell through. And, you know, months later in back at back in Vancouver, cause I was living in Vancouver at the time, I just realized that I had been doing such a good job working for someone else. Imagine what it would be working, doing it for myself. And there's this big furley sign on this really cool strip in downtown Vancouver. And, um, you know, I called Heather and I was like, let's do this. And, you know, of course then her response was, I thought you hated that idea. Like you totally cut me down for that idea.

1:02:05And I just was like, you know what, fuck it, let's do it. And four months later, so April, 2002, we opened our doors and that was the first one and it was only cupcakes and that's like the big the big difference and what's the response like in 2001 to a cupcake bakery when we were when we were brainstorming the ideas to what it was going to look like and and all that stuff and keep in mind similar times right like do you remember it was all about comfort martha stewart magazine valentine's day issue of 2002 was cupcakes they were they were what what decided our brand identity it was like the cover was pink and cream and chocolate brown and i grabbed that magazine and i was like that's gonna be that's that's like the quintessential shop and uh the look that we were both attracted to and you know we we were young we were in our mid-20s we'd never done this before it was like there was no google there was no internet it was like pick up the phone and start asking questions and everyone thought we were crazy.

1:03:15Like there was, it was such a dumb idea to everybody to, to open up a bakery and just have cupcakes. Nevermind the fact that neither one of us knew how to bake cupcakes. That's amazing. That little, little, little, little nugget right there. You, you actually didn't know how to make them. So you like taught yourself. We were inspired to make cupcakes for our boyfriends for Valentine's day. And I guess the fashion experience was a huge influence because they looked amazing, but they were like bookends. They were rock hard. I wish we kept them because they'd still look exactly the same. Um, that was the moment where we were like, you know, we have the creative knowledge, but we are not bakers.

1:03:53And, um, a good friend of mine gave me this book called E-Myth, which was a really important book to read at that time that pretty much indicated, like, if you want to grow a successful business, it's probably valuable not to be the pie baker. In In that book, the reference was a pie baker. How do you run the front of house and also manage the back of house? So Heather and I had an advantage because there was the two of us, and we both had very different strengths. And she definitely absolutely rolled up her sleeves in the kitchen way more than I did. But we knew that we had to hire a baker right from the beginning.

1:04:38And the doors opened. I think it was April 12th. And, you know, because we were in a really populated, kind of very dense neighborhood, similar to the village in, you know, downtown New York, we had people coming in right away and a tremendous community there. And, and then corporately, there was this tremendous interest for us to do because, because cupcakes are really interesting. Like you can customize them pretty easily. Right. So we were considered that cool little shop that could do, you know, personal, personal images and custom writing. And, and then we had this super cool customer that came in one day and was like, you know, I'm getting married this summer.

1:05:20Can we like do a tier of cupcakes? And the best thing that Heather and I had at that time is because we didn't know what we were doing. We were open-minded to a lot of ideas and, you You know, it would have been really easy. And I think a lot of people do this because it's not it's something that they haven't done or they don't know. They would just say no. Right. Where Heather was like, oh, that's a good idea. Let's figure that out. You know, and and and then we flooded the market with setting up cupcakes at weddings. And the thing that's amazing about cupcakes is I would be setting up at like the most beautiful golf course by the university for like 200, 300 people.

1:06:04And then in the same day, I'd be out like an hour away into the suburb at a backyard barbecue, setting up 25 cupcakes, like super diverse, super like delicious and fun. And yeah, we just rode that. And it was, it was a crazy, crazy experience. But we broke the three rules of business and that's why we got a show. And this was like, this was like, I'll send you the link. This was like the, this is the intro of our show. It was like, you don't go into business with your best friend. You don't go into a business you know nothing about. And you don't go into business without a business plan. And we broke those rules and kind of proved them all wrong.

1:06:44And it made great TV, right? I mean, you were, what was the name of the show? Cupcake Girls. Right. Cupcake Girls. That's still online. Yeah. You can find it. And we weren't coming from the entertainment business, right? We weren't actors. So it was literally ad lib. And it was two girls that knew each other really well. You know, we were best friends. And we had this crazy dynamic, high energy, high intensity. And we were both like, wow. I mean, I obviously recognize the value of doing a show because we were beginning to franchise. So at that point, we had like 15 locations. And it was a great opportunity.

1:07:23for the franchisees and, you know, for us. Lori, it's been really great hearing this story. I mean, it started with ice cream, then we got into cupcakes and your journey. And I cannot wait to visit again and try that strawberry ice cream. I'm going to do it. Next time you're going to come to the farm. It's a date. Lori Joyce, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. This was great. Thank you very much for this opportunity.

1:07:59And we're back hearing more about Matt's big Victoria tour. Well, I love these conversations with Andrea and Lori. And I couldn't leave this episode without a few more recommendations from Victoria. Really got to visit the place. So Eliza, the Chinatown in Victoria is historical. It's there are alleys that hold boutiques and there's a beautiful small museum that gives a history of Victoria's Chinatown. And I was able to go to one restaurant that I saw the sign. I'm like, I have to go in. I'd done no research. But this sign had to be 75 years old, Neon. Really, really cool place. The place is called Don Mi's Seafood Restaurant.

1:08:43Totally your spot. I love old Neon anywhere. I feel like I am a moth to the neon flame. How was the food? The food was great. You know, it was a dim sum. Like we were there on a Saturday afternoon. Perfect. And so carts, you know, we had Shalambau and Hargao and like really hot tea. And we were trying to like not fill up on everything. So we tried a few dishes. Really great staff. And it's 100 years old, this restaurant. Sticking in Chinatown next to Don Mee's is a place that I spoke with two separate chefs. I'm like, where do you like to go? and I got really, really hip to this place, Maiz Nix-Tamal.

1:09:19It is a tortilla factory in the middle of Chinatown in Victoria and oh my gosh, really terrific work. The chef's name is Israel Alvarez Molina and he worked at Pujol in Mexico City for many years and he moved to Canada and opened up this tortilla factory and really for me, I love a fresh tortilla off the assembly line and he was doing it right there. I got to chat with him briefly and really, really great. You know, a couple of the tacos that I enjoyed was barbacoa, beef barbacoa, grilled Nepali quesadilla, and then, of course, Eliza, tamales. Fresh tamales. I'm on the menu right now as soon as you mention this because I love that it's in the middle of Chinatown and this looks so good.

1:10:05Yo, it was so good. Did you eat tamales? What kind? Of course. I think I had chicken tamale, Tinga. Yeah, I had a chicken tamale. Again, trying not to fill up on everything we're trying to do. like a survey of the city. But kind of a hidden gem. I did not get this name of this place in my prep before visiting. That's why you ask the questions to the chefs and the folks who know food where to go. And I just think if you're going to this beautiful museum and walking the alleys of Victoria's Chinatown, definitely stop by Maiz, Nix de Mal. It's a really great spot. So fun. Yeah. Okay, where else should I go on the trip?

1:10:38Well, I have, of course, a coffee recommendation. Okay. And, you know, I had some coffee. I had some good coffee. I had some okay coffee. as you will on a visit. But the one place that really stuck out because it is a shop that is a multi-roaster shop, meaning they are not roasting their own coffee, but they are selling coffee from throughout Canada. It's called Hey Happy. And yeah, they were really happy there. They were like really nice, like for real. They were caffeinated and happy. They were caffeinated and happy. Loved the layout. Got myself a pour over. sat next door in like the in like the seating area.

1:11:15They brought me this beautiful tray and it was beautifully served. And really, I enjoy learning about coffee from a shop by looking at their wall. And some of the roasters featured was Drum Roaster, September, Prodigal and Subtex. Those are a few of the roasters represented there. I had a pour over that great, you know, milk drinks and food as well. It was a really, really nice visit. It sounds like a nice kind of cozy place to fuel up between all of the eating that you were doing. Definitely agree. A couple more stops. Now, I had to really think about how am I going to talk about Victoria's seafood?

1:11:51And I was like, I had in some menus, but I was like, I need to go check out some boats. I need to actually see the boats. You need to feel the salt air. Yo, definitely. You're like, you see, you can see the seaplanes coming in. And I haven't mentioned that you can actually take a seaplane from Seattle or from have you taken a seaplane? No, but I would love to. I'm the same way. I really want to. Tamara was not so into the seaplane idea. I respect that. They're kind of small and they land on water. Yeah. But back to the boats. I got to go to the harbor and I got a wonderful tour of this remarkable, I would call it a fishing company that also is a restaurant that also does mail order.

1:12:35And it's called Finest at Sea. Really, really, really cool. So the story is really interesting. It was founded by a guy named Bob from Many. It was founded by a guy named Bob from Many and Bob, Captain Bob, his name is Captain Bob, of course. Captain Bob. Captain Bob started out with one boat. He was a fisherman. One boat led to two, led to more. He now has 10 boats. And they're all going out throughout the season, throughout the year, but there's definitely high seasons where they're fishing many different species. and really when you go to Finest at Sea, they have a food truck and I would say as a visit, you can definitely get like fish and chips, but not like just cod, which we're used to in the States, but they're doing sockeye and they're doing halibut and it's fried really, really well.

1:13:20You can also get a plate of smoked fish. So like lots of different styles of sable and salmon, all smoked there. And I just love Bob's story. You know, he's the kind of guy who will, you know, leave Victoria for three months and go fishing for three months. That's how it works. I love getting seafood from people who know it that well also. Also from anyone named Captain. Instantly I'm in. Captain Bob seemed like a character. And really, Finance at Sea is a place that you can definitely buy retail, but I think going there and visiting and having some fish and chips is a must visit. Fish and chips, one in Canada for sure.

1:14:00Yeah, in Canada. You know, you think about the UK as fish and chips, but, you know, Canada's got a great fish and chips culture for sure. Commonwealth, yeah. Yeah, the Commonwealth. And speaking of that, my final destination is not a food destination. I'm a fan of the show The Crown, so I'm a little bit like royal pilled at times. I just like the ceremony and, you know, the last season was not my favorite, but ultimately what a great show. So I'm always thinking like, what's it like to be a royal? Like, what's it like to be in those shoes? I'm not saying that I got to meet a royal. I'm not like I didn't have that kind of access.

1:14:35But I did get a tour of the government house. What happens at the government house? Right. The name is like the government house. It's like, what is the government house? OK, I had a real education on this tour and it was a cool tour and you can reserve them ahead of time. They only do them on Saturdays. And the government house is the residence of the lieutenant governor of British Columbia. So it's kind of like a ceremonial house. So the lieutenant governor is like the connection to the crown, is like the connection to the Commonwealth. So this is the side of Canada that, you know, is represented by England.

1:15:10And when you enter the government house, you're, of course, greeted by a portrait of Queen Elizabeth and King Charles. And we got a tour and we walked through this giant ballroom where they do ceremonies for like terms of service. Like if you've worked for the, you know, the Canadian government or the crown for 25 years, you get it. You know, you get a medal. But we got got this great tour. And I would say in the summertime, they have a 15 acre garden. Gorgeous, gorgeous. Even in the wintertime, just walking around the grounds. Beautiful spot. Cool neighborhood. There's a castle as well that, you know, is a few a few minutes walk away.

1:15:50That has a long history. But we went to the basement of the government house. Spooky. And yeah, spooky for sure. And I don't, you know, if those walls could talk, I don't want to, I really want to be listening. But they had this billiards table that was like massive and they actually let everyone go into the women's room. And it was like designed exactly like 1958. Like all the wallpaper. Like couches to recline on. Of course. Couches and powdering, you know. I love a bathroom with a couch in it. That's always like I'm not. I'm going to be late coming back to dinner. You know, I'm going to be hanging out.

1:16:23Hanging out. And just the wallpaper, too, was incredible. I mean, it's so well preserved. And I think if, like, you know, if you're not Canadian, you're just visiting Victoria and you've had all this great food, you want to do something, you go to Bouchard Garden. But then get it to the government house. It's just a cool history lesson about, you know, the way this special relationship between Canada and England and the Commonwealth and just seeing some really cool furniture. Like, yeah, please sign me up. I'm glad that you had your royal moment, Matt. Yeah. You deserve it. It was a royal moment.

1:16:50And thanks for letting me talk about my trip to Victoria. I love this place. I definitely can't wait to visit again. And I hope you enjoy this special episode.

1:17:04This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.