571: Top 100 Bay Area Restaurants with San Francisco Chronicle's MacKenzie Chung Fegan

28:13I hope the elbow is doing better. I think so. I mean, when I saw her, I asked her how her health was and she seemed, you know, she flexed a little bit for me. So she seems to be doing well. We wish her many more years. At number 22, you have Sandy's, which is a sandwich shop. And I have to I stopped on it. I'm like a sandwich shop in the top 25. And I know you've had some sandwiches and I know that those are very debatable foods in our in our world. This must be a really good sandwich. It is a really good sandwich. The menu is so tight. Sandy's specializes in muffalettas. And there's a traditional muffaletta.

28:52There's also a vegan muffaletta made with mushrooms that is arguably even better. um there's also in season like a tomato sandwich with duke's mayo there's a pimento cheese sandwich there's a great chocolate chip cookie that's kind of it but like if it's on the menu it is there for a reason and it is excellent um and yeah i mean there are not only do we have a sandwich shop in the top 25 we have a bakery in the top 10 um and you know one way that we tried to think about this was we want to recognize restaurants that are doing the best version of whatever it is that they set out to do. And that means that, you know, maybe if we think that this sandwich spot is like making the best sandwiches, yeah, we're gonna rank it in between two spots with a Michelin star.

29:49And, you know, I think that some people are gonna have strong feelings about that. But I think many more of us have had transcendent experiences of biting into a taco and thinking my life will be forever changed by this taco. And we just want to give those humbler foods, more casual foods their due. Yeah. And like also at the price point, too. Like this isn't a restaurant list that's defined by fine dining. You certainly have fine dining in your top 10, but it's not, you're not rejecting it, but it's not centered around fine dining. And I think from the outside looking in, at least San Francisco proper has felt like a fine dining town.

30:30So I love this recommendation. Correct. And you know, when we were thinking about utility, how is this list going to be used? Cesar and I spend much of our time actually compiling lists of top fine dining, for example, or top affordable restaurants, top Italian restaurants. So those lists are out there. You can find them on sfchronicle.com. And we didn't just want the top 100 to, you know, copy paste the top fine dining list. We wanted this to be a resource for people as they're thinking about where to eat for all of the different occasions throughout their lives. Well, before we get to the top 10, I just want to ask you something that I think about a lot in just the coverage of chefs and restaurants on our show as a James Beard voter and just in general in thinking about restaurants is how do you negotiate a restaurant's, I would say, like background noise?

31:26And that's just a broad term. You know, what happens in the restaurant that isn't on the plate, meaning their, you know, their relationship with their workers? The, you know, the chef and owner, who that person is and what they embody as a person. How do you square this when you're acknowledging these hundred restaurants, the best hundred restaurants in the Bay? I would say that that is a bit of a burden. It's also a challenge. So, I mean, you and Cesar, when you're talking about these hundred, how do you how do you look at that? Yeah, it's such a good question and such a tricky question. And, you know, this does not only apply to the restaurant industry.

32:06I think we've been having the debate about, can you like art made by a terrible person for generations? And we'll have this conversation for forevermore. And of course, I think that it came to a head first in the Me Too era and in the Black Lives Matter era. You know, how are you weighing the things that you hear about restaurant owners and chefs and bad behaviors? And interestingly, in 2018, right when the Me Too movement was really gaining steam, it coincided with the release of a top 100 that included, I believe, three restaurants that were either owned or operated by chefs who had been accused of sexual misconduct, you know, very credibly.

32:52You know, one of them was Tosca Cafe, which Ken Friedman was an owner in. And so the Chronicle Food and Wine section had a little bit of a roundtable where they invited four people on staff to weigh in on whether these restaurants and other restaurants where chefs or owners had been accused of misconduct deserve the platform. and three of the people said no that you know there's plenty other places to uh i'll just say three of the people said no and michael bauer the restaurant critic at the time was the lone dissenter and he basically was like i am going to evaluate a restaurant based on what is on the plate in front of me and you know it was more nuanced than that he put some thought behind it but he was like, yeah, these three restaurants are on the list and I had good meals there.

33:44And also I know about the controversies and readers can decide for themselves. You know, I don't think that is, that is not the approach that I want to take. However, I do deeply sympathize with where he's coming from, which is what is the role of the critic of this person who does wield an uncomfortable amount of power in being judge and jury. and it's something that Cesar and I think about very deeply. And while we were creating this list of 100, House of Prime Rib, which we just mentioned, both having a great experience at, you know, a lawsuit was filed against it by a former employee alleging wage discrimination and House of Prime Rib denies it.

34:27And, you know, we were like, how do we take this into consideration? Does House of Prime Rib stay on the list? We decided it did. And I think other critics would have made a different decision. But, you know, I think that it's worth discussing the fact that we are not certain, you know, we don't do background checks on all of our restaurants. And, you know, you mentioned the James Beard Awards. I know that they sort of tried to course correct by having this kind of like, you know, informal tip line. Anonymous tip line, yeah. Yeah, exactly. An anonymous tip line, which I think, you know, the impetus for that came from a really good place.

35:07And then it ended up being really messy. It's like, okay, are you doing background checks on the people who are giving the tips? You know, like, how does this governing body of the James Beard Foundation make sure, I don't know, that the tips are vetted? And it ended up being a quite sticky situation, right? So it's tough because there is no good answer for how you ensure that only, quote unquote, good people, what does that even mean, are being recognized. And yeah, I'm figuring it out along with everybody else in my position. Well, I think you really laid it out well, and UNC Reserve done a fine job in negotiating this tricky topic.

35:49You know, there's a difference between, you know, pending litigation for wage theft and then credible reporting and accounts of sexual misconduct. I mean, there's levels here. And, you know, litigation happens in all businesses. Everyone knows that. And some of it's valid and some of it's not. So to, like, penalize a restaurant because of pending litigation seems unfair. and I think you made the right choice there. I appreciate you really thinking about it. I don't think restaurants are food on the plate, so I disagree with that assessment. I think there's so much more that goes on. And of course, you're going to make mistakes along the way and meaning you're not going to know everything.

36:27Maybe it's not even a mistake. It's just you just aren't going to know and things will come to light and you'll have another list another year. Are you going to do this every year, you think? I think we are definitely going to do this every year. Yeah, so there you go. There'll be a new list and fresh top tens. And let's actually get to the top ten because I feel like we have a lot to talk about. And I'm going to list the top ten. And I'm just going to list them. And I just want to go into a couple of them. I don't want to think we need to go over every single one because we just don't have time.

36:56But you should definitely, once again, the link is in the show notes. Make sure to click on it and check it out and save some of these restaurants to your list. If you live in the Bay Area or if you're visiting there, it's a terrific resource. All right, so the top 10 from the San Francisco Chronicle. Number 10 is Zuni Cafe. Number nine is Single Thread. Number eight is Bread Belly. Number seven is Copra. Number six is The Progress. Number five is Popoka. Number four is Sun Moon Studio. Number three is Rich Table. Number two is Four Kings. And the number one restaurant on your list is Burdell.

37:29I had not heard of it. I cannot wait to visit. I think, Mackenzie, let's start with Zuni. Such an iconic restaurant. It's number 10. It seems well placed. I, of course, don't cover the scene. Why is that at number 10? Zuni is the oldest restaurant in the top 10. Zuni Cafe has been open since 1979. It is as much a part of the soul of San Francisco as I write in the blurb as Emperor Norton or, you know, the Wild Parrots. It's like it is just baked into the heart and soul of San Francisco. And the food still slaps. I think what's really special about it is that it has entered this sort of new era of leadership.

38:13Chef Anne is in the kitchen leading an incredible team of people. Everybody goes to Zuni for the roast chicken. That's sort of like its most famous dish. I will say I think that you shouldn't order the roast chicken. Not because it's not good, but because it's a roast chicken for two. And it means that you aren't able to try some of the more seasonal specials. And that is where Zuni really shines in this, you know, California cuisine. What's at the farmer's market today? They're really carrying on the legacy of Chef Judy Rogers, who passed away a couple decades ago now. And it's just an incredibly special, beautiful spot that I adore and most San Francisco Siskins do as well.

38:54Well said. Zuni at number 10. And we'll jump to number eight, and it's Bread Belly, and it's the bakery you referenced. And later in this episode, I go over some of my personal highlights from San Francisco, and I got to visit Bread Belly, and I have a lot of thoughts about it. But number eight, you put a bakery in the top 10, but this isn't just any bakery. I looked at the gram. Oh, my God, the sandwiches. I just am like, holy shit, those sandwiches. But tell me why it's in the top 10. Yeah, Bread Belly is probably most famous for its baked goods, and it was sort of in this first wave of Asian-American inflected bakeries.

39:25Um, so you may have been influenced by Bread Belly without even knowing it, um, because it has had, um, it's been so influential in San Francisco and I think across the country as well. Um, you know, their fluorescent green kaya toast that's flavored with pandan, um, all of these like, you know, sort of fusion, if I may use that word, like goods, like the ma focaccia, um, delicious. But then they are a legitimate restaurant as well, where they serve soups, they serve sandwiches, and it changes all the time. And they are always, always delicious. So this is probably the most casual restaurant in the top 10.

40:07It is a bakery. But we did feel like if we were going to put a bakery on the list, it needed to be able to serve a full meal and, you know, not just pastries. Let's skip to number six, The Progress. This is from the team behind Staper Provision, Stuart and Nicole. And I'd like to get a sense about the progress. I think outsiders might know Staper Provision, which is also in your top 100. But the progress, for those who don't know, is doing something very special. And let us know about it. Yeah, so the progress opened in 2014. And the concept is kind of like a dinner party format, which, you know, now I feel like it's just kind of how we eat.

40:47And maybe it was how I ate back then, too. But at the time, it was quite novel. And the menu is this Venn diagram where it's shareable plates on the side, vegetables here. It's very seasonally driven, very California cuisine, again. And it is just a joyous place to eat. You can sit at the bar. They've got an off-menu hot dog. The cocktails are terrific. Or you can bring a larger group. They've got a little private dining room in the balcony and just have a huge family meal-style feast. And it is a delight. It is a delight. And I really also wanted to celebrate restaurants like The Progress or our number three restaurant, Rich Table, that are entering into their second decade, which is really tough.

41:28You know, like entering your teenage years as a restaurant is such an accomplishment. And to be performing at this level of excellence, I thought really deserved recognition. It is true. And like you celebrate that 10 year anniversary. Some of the restaurants just call it quits after that. They're like, all right. Yeah, we had that cool party. Let's maybe wrap it up here. But yeah, you should celebrate restaurants that are in their teens. Let's actually do the top four. So number four is Sun Moon Studio. And I had not heard of this restaurant. I looked at the blurb. I was like, wow, this is really, really interesting.

41:58It's in a unique location. And tell us about it. Yeah, they're a new restaurant. They've been open for less than a year. The chefs are partners in life as well as partners in business. And it is just the two of them in the kitchen, which is remarkable, period, but is even more remarkable when you see the type of food that they are turning out. This is a fine dining, tasting menu restaurant. And Sarah, Chef Sarah, is the baker of the duo. And the collaboration between them is really amazing. And their individual stamp on each dish and the way that they work together, I think, is so special. So there's like an egg custard tart, like a like a Macanese egg custard tart.

42:44And Sarah has made the flaky pastry for the crust. And then it's topped with this, you know, wonderful custard. And there's salmon roe on top. Or there's a mini hot dog made with lapchong. And Jeff Allen has made the lapchong. And then Sarah has made this like brioche steamed bun to go with it. But the fact that it's just two of them and it's this level of technical skill, it's just incredible. And it's also in an industrial area in West Oakland. It's right across from the maintenance facility for the East Bay Municipal Utility District, which handles the water system. So you're going to drive by and be like, am I in the right place?

43:27And you totally are. But this is one of the hardest tables to book because there's only four tables and there's only two of them. No way. And are they doing like one or two turns a night, do you know? Yeah. Yeah, I think they're doing two. Two turns and only four tables. Yeah. That's Sun Moon Studio. Sounds exquisite. Such a great call. And number three is Rich Table. You mentioned it. This is another restaurant that is a legend of San Francisco. It seems just from press that they – did they have like a little reboot or like a refresh? I don't know. I saw Rich Table coming up in my feed in the past couple of years.

44:02And I just I was wondering if there's been any changes or just people going back to and rediscovering it. You know, I kind of think that they have not had a reboot and that they are just always good. It is one of, again, speaking of hard tables, they're always booked. And it's one of the few places in San Francisco where I've been to where on a weeknight, people are walking in at like 930 trying to get a seat at the bar. This place is not under the radar. Everybody loves Rich Table and it's for good reason. Hospitality is wonderful and so assured. The cooking is excellent. It is just an immaculate spot to have dinner.

44:42Number two is Four Kings. I believe Four Kings has gotten lots of national press and I've not made it there and I've always wanted to go. Tell us a little bit about it. Yeah, Four Kings opened about a year ago. Frankie and Mike met while cooking at Mr. Juice, which is also on this list and is a fine dining spot with Michelin star. and they wanted to open a place that was a little bit more casual and a little bit, you know, more raucous and fun. And so they opened a spot in Chinatown. It's below a Kumon and they're serving delicious Cantonese inspired food. It's all hits. It's all hits. And it is such a fun, lively restaurant.

45:21The city really needed it. Chinatown really needed it. And when we counted down the top 10 at our event last night, they are so beloved by the industry. Like as soon as it became clear, you know, we were like, and this new restaurant in Chinatown, the whole place went nuts. Like this is a spot that the industry is supporting. They're open late. They're open on Mondays. In fact, the chefs were not there at our event because they were working last night. But, you know, this is the spot where people want to go on their night off. Oh, my God. What's it like naming the top 10 live and having many of the chefs who you've been assessing and trying their food for the past couple of years.

45:59They're like looking up at you on the stage. What's that like? It was so remarkable. And I don't think that I was prepared for it, actually. You know, it was a room full of subscribers, but also of industry and feeling people support their community and just the cheers and applause that would break out when like somebody's friend just won this award. It was amazing. And the energy that people brought on stage, you know, the shock that you could see was washing across some people's faces. You know, when there was a group photo at the end, I think it was someone from Rich Table, you know, he was like, I can't take this photo while I'm crying.

46:37It was it was very moving for me personally to see. I don't know, to see that people were being recognized and that it was meaningful to them. I mean, because I, of course, was like, I don't know, like, do they care? Do they care if I'm saying that you're like, you know, the second best restaurant in the Bay Area. And I think people cared. Oh, hell yeah. The top 10, they care. And like, you know, everyone, they put so much work. I mean, everyone on this top 100 and restaurants outside of the list that, you know, just such a such a tough business. You grew up in it. You know, you know how it goes.

47:09And to get some recognition, especially from the hometown newspaper. I mean, it's got to be for some of them. It's like career defining, I would say. I mean, you know what my hope was, was that all the people in that room have shown me such amazing hospitality, right? Like they're on this list for a reason. They've fed me, they've welcomed me. And I just hoped that like we could throw a party for them on a Monday night, maybe their only night off. That would be fun for them. And that would, you know, give them the respect and just a celebration of, as you said, people who are doing a really, really hard thing in a hard economic climate.

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49:41It was incredible. These ButcherBox ribs are amazing. For nearly a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free. As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free protein in every box for a year, plus$20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Well, at the end of your presentation, you have to name the number one restaurant. And with great ceremony, you named the number one restaurant of the year as Burdell.

50:23And I just love to get your thoughts on naming your first of many number one on the top 100. The best restaurant in the Bay Area. You know, it could mean so many different things, right? And so we had to take a point of view. And one thing that we decided that we wanted was we wanted people to be able to visit number one. And Cesar, who's from L.A., you know, he was like, I grew up reading Jonathan Gold's L.A. 101 list. And I was never able to go to the number one restaurant. It was out of reach. It was expensive. and you know he just went to providence last year for the first time and we wanted um we wanted a spot that you know unlike sun moon studio you could actually book and get into as well and burdell checked those boxes in addition to just being an extraordinary restaurant and one that is both beloved by people in oakland in the bay area and that also is representing us on a national stage.

51:25And we thought that was important as well. You know, we didn't just want it to be sort of like a restaurant that was famous around the country. I think Food & Wine just named it like, you know, the best restaurant of the year as well. We wanted it to be playing on both of these levels about saying something about our region and also just a place that you love to go. Every time I've been, oh, the barbecue shrimp is so good. Talk about the cuisine a little bit. Yeah, it's soul food. So Chef Jeff Davis is, you know, putting his own spin on Southern Classics. The collards are amazing. He does this chicken and waffle dish, but it's served.

52:03The chicken component is like a chicken liver mousse with cracklins. And his food is just full of finesse and is plain delicious. Wow. I mean, I'm going to guess the reservations are going to be a little tougher now with being name number one. But they might be. They might be. But my cousin got a reservation for May this morning. So that's good. Yeah. Still get them. Well, Mackenzie, this is so tremendous. Congratulations to you and Cesar on your first top 100. I'm a subscriber. I'm reading what you're writing every week. And it's just terrific work. Congratulations. Congratulations. Thanks so much.

52:40I really appreciate it. It's a real labor of love, and I'm so happy it's out in the world.

52:49Eliza, I wanted to share some restaurants I got to visit recently in San Francisco. Oh, I love going to San Francisco. I liked going to San Francisco. I really loved it after this visit. I usually went to the East Bay. Our offices were in Emeryville for 10-speed press, so I would go there once a year for several years and I have really good friends in Albany. So I would always be in the East Bay. But this trip, I really wanted to go to many of the San Francisco restaurants that we've mentioned. We've had guests. Also, just give it a little bit of a, I would call it a check, like to see what's happening in this city of great importance in America.

53:27OK, I'm excited to hear about where you went. Well, I'm not going in any order. I have some coffee to talk about. I definitely have some bakeries to talk about. I have some new restaurants, some established restaurant, one that's been open since 1999. One place I really liked is called Bodega. And Bodega is run by Matthew Ho, and it's kind of an extension of his family's restaurant, Bodega Bistro, which operated from 2003 to 2017 in the Tenderloin. And he moved it down the block, so this is still in the Tenderloin. And it's modern Vietnamese. And I really think it reminds me of some of the great restaurants in New York and places that really understand bar culture and getting at the root of some traditional Vietnamese dishes.

54:13I mean, just from the bar standpoint, when you have Hidacino Nest N.A., I'm like, please serve me one of those. Those are really hard to find. You have to order them on Amazon for extraordinary amounts of money. So I love when a bar does a great NA program. But, I mean, the lineup, I didn't try that many dishes because I was, again, trying to get as many places as possible. The banh khan, the rice rolls, bombeo, which is the fermented, you know, squishy discs that are, you know, his version were topped with uni and dried shrimp. There was a bun cha, which I thought was fantastic, which is pork belly and pork meatballs with, you know, side of vermicelli and all the herbs and fish sauce.

54:58And so he's doing, you know, traditional Vietnamese dishes in this like modern bar format. There's a television that was playing the Warriors game. It was I went a little early, but, you know, it seemed like it had a robust bar business. And really, Matthew was just a nice guy to meet. So I like that one. It sounds like such a fun place to get to go and also to kind of start off a night. And the Tenderloin, you know, a very loaded topic. You know, Tenderloin has experienced a lot of change over the years. There's been a lot of, you know, we've seen drug abuse on the streets of the Tenderloin and the new mayor is attempting to, you know, rectify that through various measures.

55:36And I'm just going to say broadly, the Tenderloin was I was staying near there and I wouldn't I enjoyed my time there. I think that there's definitely like New York City block by block. You're going to have your moments. But I wouldn't write off the Tenderloin is what I'm saying. Yeah. Which I think was surprising to me. So, yeah, that's good to know. Yeah. So I went to some coffee places and I'm going to like kind of give a little summary. Jordan Michaelman helped curate this list, which I thought was great. The one that really struck me was Neighbors Corner in Eureka Valley. I think Jordan described it as up in the clouds, which is one of those neighborhoods that's really elevated, those classic San Francisco neighborhoods.

56:21It's a Japanese-style cafe, and they're doing amazing. I just loved it. I tried two drinks there. They're doing matcha latte and hojicha lattes. I tried an Okinawan latte with Cocokuto, which is a black sugar from Okinawa. Really nice barista service there and great wall of coffees. That's called Neighbors Corner. I went to the legendary coffee movement in Chinatown. Just had a nice cup of coffee and hung it outside. They have tables outside with the newspaper. It's been a neighborhood hub for over a decade. They're doing really great pour-overs and drip coffees. And, of course, you can buy a bunch of coffees there.

56:59And then the last one I mentioned on the three things earlier, but I want to mention it briefly again. High Energy Coffee on Clement Street in the Richmond. It's a pop-up that's done every weekend at High Trees and Wine Bar. And I just thought the Café de Ola was amazing and just the vibe. They had great vinyls there, if you may recall. Yeah, I feel like San Francisco is such a coffee city. It's something that it's really known for, but I haven't been to any of these spots. So I love the recommendations. Yeah, thanks, Liza. And I just think coffee there, it's like really the heart of coffee in America by many accounts.

57:31And, you know, coffee culture really, some would say Portland. Yeah, I'm going to say the Pacific Northwest is going to come for you. No, I mean, I'm not going to make judgment. But, you know, with a lot of the big brands coming out of San Francisco, but also some small cafes, it's a really important city for coffee. All right, moving on. I got to hang out with my friend Sarah Desarin from the San Francisco Standard. You should check out that publication. It's a relatively new digital-only publication that's doing great food writing, and Sarah's leading the charge there. El Milamores, which is a place that she has suggested in the mission.

58:06It's a Mexican-American breakfast and lunch plates counter. It's open from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. Really packed. I waited in line for a long time to go there, which I typically don't love, but it was worth it. I thought it was a really nice vibe. Lots of families. I saw some suitcases, people hitting there before the airport. I love that vibe. You know, the list of dishes, huevos ranchero, chikamole, chilaquiles. They do a Mexico City chilaquiles plate with scrambled eggs, potatoes, and a concha French toast, which I fucking loved. It was really good. And, like, I just think that the Mission is a neighborhood that I've been going to for years.

58:46And there's always interesting food popping up in that neighborhood. And it was nice to visit with Sarah there. Okay, concha, French toast, I'm going to be thinking about for a long time. Really, really, really good. And I love the staff there. They were so nice. And I got to hang out with Mackenzie Chung-Fagan, who is the restaurant critic at the San Francisco Chronicle. And I got the full lay of the land. And it's alive. San Francisco is really alive right now. I'm going to move on. So this is one of the established restaurants I went to. I got to go to Kefiko. Do you know about Kefiko at all?

59:18Yes, yes. I haven't been there, but I feel like maybe Mackenzie reviewed it recently. That's what I was reading about. Perhaps. I think maybe she has reviewed it in her tenure there. The Kefiko, you know, is from the chef David Nafield. And I'd never been. I think it was like really, really on the best new restaurant list when it launched about a decade ago and really has really settled in as a favorite. I would say they're doing Italian cooking that is it has a heart in Rome. There's a lot of dishes that tap into the Jewish diaspora of Rome and the history of Jewish food in Rome. And I got to really try a number of dishes.

59:56But what I like about this place is bread is really at the focus. Pizza and bread and the way that they run that program is exceptional. And they do all dry aging there on their own, which I think is harder than it looks. And when you have a major dry aging counter and charcuterie as well within the space and you're doing it there, that's very challenging. and they do an amazing job. A couple of dishes that were highlights, I had a white pie with nettle mozzarella and casal vetrano olive. You know, there was a list of like four or five pies, and this was the daily pie that day, and I really enjoyed it.

1:00:31Focaccia, of course, is mentioned. They do it all in-house. It's really great. And I think that what I like about David's point of view is that it's a very fun restaurant with a really excellent wine program, and it's very busy, like in a Balthazar sense. It's like really like it's a place to be and it's not quiet by any means. And I really loved it. And David has a cookbook coming out from Knopf, I believe. And we're going to have David on the show when that is released soon. So we'll get to talk about David, about his career and running restaurants in San Francisco. It was terrific. I want to go to all of these places.

1:01:11I think when I go to San Francisco, I go see my family. Maybe I go to In-N-Out. Like I do a couple things, but doing like the full proper San Francisco restaurant is such an experience. I know. And I hadn't done it in a long time. Do you have like a favorite from your memory San Francisco restaurant that's not In-N-Out? I mean, obviously not In-N-Out. That's a good question. I mean, classic like Mission Burritos, always something that I do. I do like going to Tartin, in like the manufacturing that has the Heath newsstand next door. Yeah. I think if I'm leaving the airport, that's kind of a good spot to go to to get some lunch and just kind of feel like this is where I'm situated.

1:01:51What's that? Byright Market. Do you know that? Oh, the ice cream there? Yeah. I like the ice cream there a lot. Oh, wow. Also, not exactly in San Francisco proper, but in San Rafael, there's a place called Soul Food. Have you been there before? No, I haven't. What's up about it? Okay. So I love this name because it could be Korean food or it could be like Southern American soul food, but it's S-O-L as in the sun. It's a Puerto Rican restaurant. They do really good like chicken, rice and beans, plates, plantains, like that kind of vibe. And when I was growing up, whenever I'd be driving in that area with my family to visit my mom's side of the family, we would always go to soul food.

1:02:22It's kind of like a local destination. So whenever I think about the Bay, that's something that comes to mind. I like that. And that's in San Rafael? Yeah, it's in San Rafael. I got to go to the Outer Sunset too. And as an aside, Outerlands, what a great restaurant. And I just love that neighborhood. I just think and it's, I caught it on a foggy night, which is probably most nights. And wow, it's really cool craft beer bars lining the streets. And, you know, it's right by the Richmond. And it's just a great spot to spend an afternoon walking around. You head to the beach too. You can walk to the beach.

1:02:56I love a foggy night on the beach. That's so San Francisco. So SF. I'm going to continue. I'm going to stay in the Richmond. I'd never been to Aziza. And I'd always, I've interviewed Marad Lalu, who's the chef there, I interviewed him maybe 10, 12 years ago. You know, this was a restaurant pioneering in the Richmond, opened in 1999. M. Rod Spen has written cookbooks and has opened multiple restaurants. But this was like really the established Richmond restaurant. It was closed for, I think, two to three years around the pandemic for a full remodel. So I got to see the new space, which has been open a couple of years.

1:03:34I got tipped off that brunch there is the way to go or one of the highlights. And I had a really nice brunch there. You know, Murad is cooking his style of Moroccan cuisine. That's his heritage. But he's doing it in a very San Francisco way. And, of course, knowing that San Francisco there was a pancake, there was a fermented pancake. And this was a fucking good pancake. I mean, it was airy, made with semolina, with honey butter, citrus honey, and bee pollen on top. and just looking at it, it was a great photo. It was just a beautiful pancake. And I don't think I've talked about pancakes that long on the show.

1:04:09So it really shows you how much I like this one. But I just think Aziza is a place I like to go back for dinner. I like to hear about Murad's story. He's just a legend in San Francisco. And it was nice that I could stop by. On the West Coast, brunch and lunch are very popular meals of the day. I think people not necessarily stay out as late on the West Coast as they do here in New York. And I think that a lot of people like to have like a big meal before they, I don't know, go hiking or go to the beach or do whatever those things are that people do when they're on the West Coast. But I'm not surprised to hear that you had a good brunch there.

1:04:43It's a good point. I think, you know, San Francisco and the West Coast are maybe earlier risers. Yes. That's my experience. Also, like brunch in New York, it's just polarizing. Some people love it, but it can be not fun. Yeah. No, I think that it's more of like a West Coast move for me. Yeah, they have all that sunshine too. You're just like, you're out in the sun. You might as well. Okay, where else did you go that you want to shout out? My last couple stops, I got to go to two bakeries. And there's many bakeries, obviously, under Statement of the Century in San Francisco. But I picked two places that have gotten a lot of press and I wanted to do little stop-bys there.

1:05:19And the first one is Bread Belly in the Richmond. Have you heard of this place? Yes, I have been before. It's very good. Yeah, cool. So I want to hear about your thoughts. I was quite full so I ordered some things to go I did not have this but I was checking the gram yesterday their sandwiches that's like kind of their sneaky superpower there is like these sandwiches they did a spiced braised corned beef with Sichuan shredded potato green pepper, white cheddar and an herby horseradish romolade on milk bread they're doing like the cross section photo holding it thing it's good for the gram but it looks incredibly well thought through, that sandwich.

1:06:00The twice-baked croissants are legendary. They do them with Santa Rosa plum and sometimes with local grapes. And I just thought that their pastry counter, I really thought their pastry case was exceptional. I hit it around 1 p.m., so it was a little cleared out. But what a volume bake shop. I mean, if you look back into the reaches of the restaurant, If you look back into the bakery, you can see like a staff of a dozen people working. It's funny. I posted something on threads and someone was like, that place isn't good. I'm like, OK, well, you're wrong. The place is very good. So, I mean, when you get like when you have long lines at a bakery, it can be polarizing.

1:06:39I had a great experience there. What was yours? Yeah, I had a twice baked croissant there, which I think is kind of what they're known for. And I really liked it. I think that is kind of a style of pastry that we don't really see as much here in New York. But I really enjoyed it. And I think it's cool when you go to a place and they have something that everyone is really excited about to get there. I liked it a lot. I want to go back. The other bakery was Maison Nico, which I didn't know much about it. I got there very early, like 15 minutes before they opened. There was probably a line of 50 people.

1:07:10Whoa. They opened. They moved it pretty quickly. But I was luckily there early. It's an interesting idea. It's not a bakery and only a bakery. It's a bakery and like a Lyonnais charcuterie shop. And they're doing these really, really classic French charcuterie and baked items. They have a pâté en creux with duck, chicken, dried cherry, golden raisins, pistachio. What a beautiful thing. I did not get that. I'm not like the biggest pâté en creux fan. It was like maybe 9.45 a.m., so I wasn't quite vibing it. They are legendary for their canelés, which I think they're either good or they're bad. and these ones were quite good.

1:07:50Pano Chocolat was quite good. They do quiche and then they have a variety of choux, choux of the day and a really, really cool vibe inside and I thought Mason Nico was doing excellent stuff. I'm looking on their Instagram right now and the detail in these pastries is crazy. Yeah, it's exceptional and the laminated dough, the guanisserie there is beautiful work. Just for the photos, but I took a few things back to my hotel. Speaking of that, the Timbrey Hotel in San Francisco on Market Street, I really liked his brand new, their rooftop bar, a good coffee bar. And right in that neighborhood I mentioned on Market Street, that puts you in a really central location.

1:08:31So I dug that. Yeah, it was a great trip. I was really happy that I could visit San Francisco. We've traveled in California with the crew here. We were in Southern California. And I really hope that we can go to Northern California outside of San Francisco and visit all of the great towns north of San Francisco and east of San Francisco and, you know, into the Silicon Valley. There's so much great food there. Yeah, I'm so glad that California treated you well. Thank you for letting me share. Yeah, thanks for sharing, Matt.

1:09:06This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste. Amen.