In short
Podcast Summary: This Is TASTE - Episode 577: Open-Sesame Minded with Seed + Mill's Rachel Simons
Episode Overview In this episode of This Is TASTE, hosts Aliza Abarbanel and Matt Rodbard engage in a lively discussion with Rachel Simons, co-founder of Seed + Mill, a pioneer in sesame products. The conversation explores her transition from corporate law to entrepreneurship, the growth of Seed + Mill, and her new cookbook, Sesame: Global Recipes + Stories of an Ancient Seed. The episode also features a discussion with fashion writer Emilia Petrarca on the emerging trend of restaurants associated with luxury brands, termed as "reSTOREants."
---
Key Themes and Discussions
Rachel Simons and Seed + Mill
- Background: Rachel Simons shares her journey from corporate law to founding Seed + Mill, highlighting her passion for food and travel.
- Seed + Mill's Mission: The store specializes in sesame products, particularly tahini and halva, celebrating the rich history and versatile uses of sesame seeds.
- Location: Situated in Chelsea Market, Seed + Mill has become a beloved destination for both locals and tourists, emphasizing community and storytelling through food.
Sourcing and Production
- Ingredient Sourcing: Rachel explains that 90% of their sesame seeds are sourced from Ethiopia, chosen for their sweetness and emulsification properties.
- Processing: The seeds are processed in Israel, where they are roasted and ground, before being brought back to New York for final production.
- Artisanal Approach: The halva is hand-made by skilled artisans, showcasing the craftsmanship involved in creating quality products.
The Cookbook
Sesame: Global Recipes + Stories of an Ancient Seed
- Content Overview: Rachel's cookbook delves into the history of sesame, showcasing its global significance beyond just Middle Eastern cuisine.
- Global Influence: She aims to highlight recipes and uses of sesame in various culinary traditions from around the world, incorporating influences from Asian cuisines.
- Cooking with Tahini:
- Flavor and Versatility: Discussed the unique flavor profile tahini brings to both savory and sweet dishes.
- Cooking Tips: Rachel provides insights on effectively incorporating tahini in recipes, highlighting common challenges and techniques for achieving the right texture.
Popular Recipes
- Rachel shares some of her favorite recipes from the book, such as:
- Chocolate Tahini Brownies: Combining the nuttiness of tahini with chocolate for a rich dessert.
- Green on Green on Green: Featuring a tahini sauce with fresh herbs and grilled vegetables.
- Bittersweet Chocolate Tahini Tart: A complex yet rewarding dessert emphasizing the balance of flavors.
The Rise of the reSTOREant
- Discussion with Emilia Petrarca: The hosts chat with Emilia about the trend of restaurants linked to luxury brands, examining their appeal and the experience they provide.
- Consumer Experience: The concept of 'reSTOREants' allows consumers to engage with luxury brands in a more accessible way, often through food experiences.
- Cultural Significance: These establishments are not just about dining; they represent a lifestyle and social status, often attracting attention on social media.
Key Takeaways
- Passion for Food: Rachel's journey emphasizes that true entrepreneurial spirit often stems from personal passion rather than a rigid business strategy.
- Culinary Diversity: The potential of sesame as a versatile ingredient is highlighted, showcasing its importance across various culinary traditions.
- Experiential Dining: The rise of reSTOREants reflects a shift towards experiential dining, where brand engagement and social media play significant roles in consumer behavior.
---
Conclusion This episode of This Is TASTE provides a rich exploration of food culture, entrepreneurship, and the intersection of culinary and fashion experiences. Rachel Simons' journey and insights into Seed + Mill, coupled with Emilia Petrarca's observations on dining trends, create a multifaceted discussion about the evolving nature of food in society today.
For more content, visit [TASTE online](https://tastecooking.com) and subscribe to the podcast for future episodes.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. That is exactly what differentiates Culver from almost any other candy. And so it is very much a textural experience. And, you know, it should be a bit flaky and a bit dense. You should be able to put it in your mouth and it should just melt gently.
0:50This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard.
0:59Driven by our passion for food and travel, Rachel Simons traded her corporate law career for an entrepreneurial adventure, co-founding Seed & Mill, New York's first store devoted entirely to Sesame products. Located in the iconic Chelsea market, the business quickly captured the hearts of locals and tourists alike, evolving into a nationally celebrated brand. Today on the show, I speak with Rachel about her growing business and her terrific new cookbook, Sesame, Global Recipes and Stories of an Ancient Seed. Also on the show, I chat with fashion writer Emilia Petrarca about the rise of the Restorant, aka restaurants attached to luxury brands in New York City and beyond.
1:43Rachel Simons, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you? I am fantastic, Matt. It's great to see you. I've been such a fan of Seed & Mill. How long have you been running it? So we are nine years about a week ago. No way. Nine years. Yeah, I know. I want this conversation. We're going to talk about Seed & Mill and what you represent and the way you think about sesame products and tahini. Then we'll get into your brand new book, which I love. It's absolutely one of my favorites of the year. It's really this subject needed a really complete book, and you've done that. Before we get to that, you're a New Yorker.
2:18Let me ask you, where have you been dining out in the city? I always want to know. I think our listeners want to know. Yeah, well, I've been in New York for 10 years. You're official. I'm official. We'll call it that. I have a green card. Nice. And I've always lived on the same block in Chelsea. And I am very, very loyal to my Chelsea community. So I fell in love with a couple of local restaurants, particularly Cookshop and now Shuket, which is on my block. They're all kind of restaurants within the Vicky Freeman Bowery Group. And honestly, I just love to be in my neighbourhood. Obviously, Cedar Mill's got our locations in Chelsea Market.
3:02So I do try to kind of stay local. And, yeah, big shout out to the community that I kind of see every day. I walk past those restaurants every day and they make me feel like a member of the family. It's a great neighborhood. And you get to walk to your location in Chelsea Market where you've been. You're one of the established Chelsea Market vendors and stores. Let's talk about Seed & Mill a little bit. Tell me exactly what you're selling there, a little bit about the mission of the company. So Cedar Mill sells anything that comes from sesame seeds, let's say. So the heart of our business is all about sesame.
3:45And the name Cedar Mill comes from, we're milling these seeds and that creates this product called tahini. And then tahini is the core ingredient in what makes halva. and then we have a tahini soft serve. We've got some halva covered nuts. But the hero of our business is all about sesame seeds. The sesame seed is at the center and your book covers it so beautifully and we'll get into that. When you were thinking about launching Seed & Mill, I'd love to get your take on the broader halva and tahini market. Of course, it's a historical product. Of course, we were able to buy it at many stores in New York and around the country.
4:27Great products. I would say, and my thought is that you, when you launched C &Mill, you were certainly, I would say, inspired by some of those brands. But you really kind of got into like the terroir about where the sesames came from, the production. What were you thinking when you were like, I'm going to open a tahini sesame company 10 years ago? Where was the like opportunity? All right, Matt. I mean, I don't know whether or not this is the right story to share on this podcast, but sometimes I feel like there's a lot more strategy or thought that other people attribute to our business objectives and goals when we started.
5:09So if I'm going to be really honest with you, when we started the business nine years ago, I had just moved to the city. I'd traveled a lot and I'd lived in the Middle East for a while, but I'd also lived in London and I'd lived in Hong Kong. and I was really, my passions in life were food and travel and I thought, oh, I met my co-founders and honestly the three of us just thought we're going to start a business around Sesame because we had an affinity for the product and the region, particularly the Middle East where it had come from. But the business really grew into something much more today than what we thought it would be at the start.
5:48And, yeah, we were very careful about our ingredient sourcing because they are core values that we all had and I certainly have when I eat or when I shop and when I enjoy food. But it became this moment, particularly around Chelsea Market, where I was just blown away by the reaction and I was blown away by conversation after conversation with customers at the counter. And I almost had a revelation about six months after we opened the business that I was thinking, oh my God, wow, this really is a business. And not only is it a business, this is a vehicle for incredible storytelling and community building.
6:27And the number of people from different communities and backgrounds that I have met at that counter, even today when I go there nine years later, I couldn't stand there for an hour without hearing a really personal story from someone. And that really drove the growth and the passion and the excitement. And then the strategy all came after the fact. It wasn't there nine years ago. Amazing that you're honest about this. And I think that's a great thought about some founders go into things for love and some founders go into things for like to hit some points on a deck. And you clearly are the prior.
7:03There was no deck. There was no deck. I didn't even know what a deck meant. Amazing. And that's the best. Let's talk a little bit about the product. Where are the sesames coming from? How are you making the product? Is it made here in New York? Is it made somewhere else? Give us a sense of how it's made. Yeah. I mean, so I will just backtrack for one second. I mean, when I say there wasn't any strategy index, there definitely wasn't that. But we were very, very careful from day one about, well, what are the ingredients in our products? Where are these ingredients coming from? And who do we want to make them with us?
7:38And do we trust them? And are we proud to sell this product? And I really wanted to be proud of the ingredients and the values of the business. So we source all of our sesame from Ethiopia. There's a little bit of an exception now because sadly there is some conflict, a lot of conflict in Ethiopia. So we've had a few sourcing challenges and about 90 % of our seeds are still sourced from Ethiopia with some from Tanzania and the African region. around Ethiopia. The reason for that is that the seeds in that particular region are a little bit sweeter. They've got a really high ratio of oil to fiber.
8:18So what that means is when you crush those seeds, you get a really good emulsification and a great amount of oil. They're not so bitter and bitterness is often something that people feel when they eat tahini. So it was important for us that they would taste a little bit more sweetness and have a great color and texture experience. So we source the seeds in Ethiopia, then we move everything over to Israel where we process the seeds, we grind the seeds, we brine them. All of the extra flavor that comes from the roasting of the seeds happens over there and then we bring it over here. I love that chain and I've heard this from other tahini companies and I think that's like the way to do it.
8:58You have to get that product out of Ethiopia, find a great producer and then you bring it back to New York. And do you have a culinary kitchen in New York to make the halva and other products too? So we make our ice cream on site in Chelsea Market, but actually our halva is also made in Israel. And our halva is all made by hand. I think everything around the tahini and halva industry, it is still a very artisanal product. The harvesting of the sesame is all done by hand, not so much the grinding of the seeds. But the hover is all made, hand folded by a family that we partnered with who've been making it for generations.
9:41It's such an amazing product. I'm a huge fan. I think we have it in our fridge most of the time. No, I love it. And there's a lot of great tahini out there. You know, this has been a booming category in CPG. And one last CPG-related question. What's it like to work right now in CPG and sell products online, at your retail shop, through partners? I mean, it's a product that needs refrigeration. So it's a difficult product to sell because you have to have the cold chain working correctly. What's it like working in that world? CPG is a really difficult channel and it gets more and more difficult every month, every year.
10:22I actually, halva and tahini are shelf-stable products. They don't need refrigeration. And it's an interesting point. We are halva especially, halva never needs refrigeration. And in fact, it's sold and displayed all throughout the deserts of the Middle East and will hold up. The reason that we refrigerate it or recommend refrigeration is that we're very conscious about not putting any palm oil in our products. And for that reason, sometimes they get a bit oily. So it is better to store it in the fridge to stop that happening. But, yeah, I mean, I think CPG has become a very transactional. I mean, it's very much there's a lot of middlemen in the industry.
11:01You know, what gives me joy and passion to continue in the CPG industry is really the community and the customers and their stories. And that kind of brings us back to the book. But, you know, when I see our products on the shelf in a supermarket, I'm super psyched, but I'm much more excited when some of those customers will reach out and tell me a story or share a recipe or a photo or, yeah, that keeps me going. It's nice to have a couple businesses, a couple projects in the mix, and we're going to talk about the book. And I want to start with the cover. It's a really, really cool cover. And I think getting an illustrated cover is quite the coup.
11:39And I'm so happy we went with that direction here. because it's really a striking cover. But there's other things on the cover to talk about, and I love it. So on the top right, you have enjoyed since 350 BCE. What does that mean exactly? I love that. Well, I mean, the book is a history of sesame, and sesame seeds have been harvested since 3 ,500 BCE. I mean, it's a 5 ,000-year-old crop ingredient, and the book is really as much a story and a history of the seed, how it's traveled, how it's been enjoyed across cultures and places all around the world. So it's very much an ancient seed, and I wanted to honor that.
12:20And then on the bottom, below your name, there are many ways sesame are spelled and stated throughout the world. Tell me about this and why that's such an important part of the cover. I mean, I really wanted to differentiate this book from other Middle Eastern style books. I mean, because tahini and halva are typically associated with Middle Eastern cuisine, at least in the way I've experienced it over the last few years. And, you know, we want to give credit to a lot of chefs and restaurants that have brought tahini into the kind of forefront of our menus and our cooking. But for me as an Australian and as someone who's travelled around the world a lot, I've really seen that it's not just a Middle Eastern beloved ingredient and it really has so much presence and history in the food of Asia.
13:12So I really wanted to talk about how sesame is used in Japan particularly or there's some recipes in the book that are featured from Taiwanese chefs or Korean chefs, Thai chefs, Indian chefs. And so I really wanted to globalize the book and make sure that people who were enjoying it would get the best of Middle Eastern cuisine, but also feel that there is a global connection to the rest of it. That was really essential. Obviously, East Asia, sesame oil is used in so much of the cooking. It's a predominant flavor profile. Yeah, absolutely. And you did a really nice job because the book really does focus on tahini, and that's your business, and we're going to get into that.
13:48But giving nods to the world, very nice. Let's broadly talk about cooking with tahini in particular. We see it everywhere. You know, you look at New York Times cooking and many of the recipes on the savory side and the baking side throw in tahini in a great way. I say throw in is actually artfully integrate. I'll say that. But I would like to know broadly, what does cooking with tahini allow the home cook to do? Great question. I mean, and it's multi-pronged, my answer on that. So first of all, I'll start with taste. I really love the taste of sesame. I mean, I think it adds this nuttiness that, obviously, it's not a nut, but it adds this kind of depth of flavor and complexity to a dish, particularly something like a cookie.
14:36I think that is one of my favorite use cases of tahini. So, you know, a chocolate chip cookie is always delicious. No one's ever going to complain about a chocolate chip cookie. But I think adding the tahini to that cookie adds something that people kind of, they take their bite and they're like, ooh, what am I tasting? And they can't always pinpoint it, but they know that there's something really deeply pleasurable about that taste and flavor. So that's the flavor side of it. But I think the other thing is it's an oil, really. It's a fat source and it's an emulsifier. So it's a great addition.
15:09It's a great substitution for things like butter or cream or a dairy product. But it just adds that sort of yummy, sort of almost buttery, silky texture to something, a creaminess without the cream, if you like. Right. And it has like a nuttiness, I agree. It has that earthiness that sometimes you want in a savory dish too. Yes, yeah. I really like a piece of writing that you have early in the book. and it's something, it tackles this idea of when you have your tahini, you pull it out to cook with it, you always have to add a liquid. It's similar to gojujan in a way. You can't just like throw tahini onto something.
15:49It's a little difficult to manipulate. You have articulated a lot of the stress that we get because when you're integrating tahini with water or some kind of lemon juice or some citrus juice, there's this moment where you're like, am I doing it wrong? And I think we all encounter that. But talk about that writing. I love that question and I love that section of the book. I think the section of the book, I called it Lessons in Tahini Chemistry or Lessons in Tahini Chemistry because I think it really throws a lot of people. They'll add the liquid and then counterintuitively they expect it to sort of almost dilute the product and somehow just whisking that is going to work and immediately create this smooth, silky dressing.
16:31But actually what happens is that it gets all clumpy and sticky and gluggy and people kind of have this panic moment where they're like, oh, this didn't work, this looks terrible. And I love watching that sort of revelation moment where you just patiently add a little bit more liquid and whether it's an acid like lemon juice or vinegar or pickle juice or whatever you're adding or just water, it's just, you know, you slowly add a little bit more water and you keep patiently whisking and just almost miraculously it'll go from this clumpy seized, you know, bowl of, you know, mushed to a really beautiful, creamy, whipped, and it almost looks, you know, pillowy within seconds.
17:13And I've always loved that moment because, you know, people kind of, their eyes pop out of their minds and they're like, wow, it went from that to that with a fork, a bowl, no food processor, no blender, just, you know, two or three ingredients and you're good to go. I love it. So you're suggesting a fork and a small bowl. What about a whisk and a large bowl? What's the best way to do it? I mean, a whisk in a large bowl. I mean, it all works. But I love to be able to show people like, hey, you've got your jar of tahini. You've got a tap. You've got a lemon. A little bit of salt and a fork. And it's going to work with a fork and a small bowl.
17:48But yes, a whisk as well. Hi there. It's Matt, co-host of the show. We are currently running a This Is Taste listener survey, and we'd love to hear from you. Do you have a guest request? A restaurant you wish we'd visit to talk about on three things? what about a lesser-known cookbook author who deserves a spot in our studio chair? You can let us know by clicking the link in our show notes to complete the survey. It will only take a couple minutes, I swear, and will help us continue to make the best show possible. That's the This Is Taste listener survey, link in our show notes. From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, An exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story.
18:38The 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist. Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-starred talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus. The full program is available at MontrealOnLumiere.com, presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. I want to talk about the baking side right now, because I feel like tahini integrated into pastry, into dessert, has been this big moment in the past half decade.
19:24And it's not just, you know, a Japanese or Korean inspired, you know, blondie or snickerdoodle. It's like you're seeing it everywhere. And in your book, you have many examples. What's the benefit of baking with tahini? What are some big ideas we can think about when using it? I mean, I love to add it to chocolate. I think chocolate and tahini are just such a dreamy combination. So there's a lot of great recipes in the book, like chocolate tahini brownies. There's a chocolate tart. One of my favorite recipes in the book is one of the first things I ever tried actually using tahini, which was just to combine tahini and dark chocolate.
20:02And I melt the dark chocolate, you add the tahini, and it adds that earthy complex flavor that you talked about earlier, but it's the emulsifier, it's the fat, it's the creaminess. And so I love that recipe particularly because it's literally a two-ingredient chocolate truffle. happens to be vegan, dairy-free, but that isn't, for me, the kind of call-out. It's just the simplicity of the ingredients, the two flavors, very little work involved. And, you know, sometimes I keep them in my freezer and you just pull them out cube by cube to have on your own or as an entertaining dish. But, yeah, I mean, I think it's really that we talked about, you know, that earthy complex flavor and it's that secret flavor that somehow people kind of can't put their finger on.
20:44I think one of the other desserts that I love in the book is the crumble. There's a peach crumble, but the topping for the crumble, I call it a crumble. I think Americans might kind of call it more of a cobbler. But the topping has a lot of tahini and a bit of miso and a bit of flour. Actually, it does call for a little bit of butter as well. So it's not a vegan crumble, but it's the tahini and the miso as well that really make it that kind of, whoa, I wasn't expecting that flavor. What is in that? I love that. Tahini and miso, what amazing partners. One of my favorite, favorite combinations, both savory and sweet.
21:28And I love now adding miso and tahini to sweet recipes as well as savory. How did you develop the recipes? You know, you probably had a lot of feedback over the years running a tahini company and you probably have lots of friends suggesting ways to cook with it. How did that work, the actual development? I mean, the recipe development didn't really happen over the last two years. I would sort of say it's almost been happening since I was about five years old. I've always loved to be in a kitchen and I've always felt very comfortable just trialing things. I've never been actually as much as I adore cookbooks and I collect them and I love cookbooks, I've never really been someone who pulls open a recipe book and follows everything precisely.
22:10I've always felt great. And it's been a creative expression for me to just be in a kitchen and try things. So I do think if there's one space where I'd say I feel quite fearless, it would be in a kitchen. So the recipe development has just been, I knew intuitively that a lot of flavors were going to work together and it was a gut feeling. I think the hard part of the development was the precision part of it because when I cook, I throw a bit of this and I throw a bit of that and I don't follow recipes that well myself. Your editors want a little more precision. I know. Typically. I know. It was hard.
22:47It was really hard for me to go, is it a half teaspoon of salt or a full? Yeah. That was a very tricky process for me. But thankfully, I had a lot of help. Yeah, you had some help in the development. I like that. Well, I love the recipe, Green on Green on Green. What a great title. And I want to make it. It sounds, it's totally my speed. Tell us about that. Oh, I love that dish. It's, you know, when you see, well, for me, at least, when I think about that recipe, even just thinking about it, the back of my mouth is tingling. I've actually, my taste buds are already tingling and I haven't, I haven't even got the picture in front of me, but I just know that feeling.
23:24So the recipe calls for a green tahini sauce, and I'll come to that in a second. And then I've grilled some broccolini over the top, but any greens are going to work. I broiled them, I think. Australians say grilled. So it's got some veggies on the top, and then it's got a little bit of a green dukkah over the pistachio forward dukkah over the top. So that's the green base, the green veggies, and then the green top. But it's really the sauce for me that is the key to this dish. And so the sauce has got a lot of green herbs. It's got some cilantro, some parsley, some dill, but the key to it is the green limes and a green jalapeno.
24:01So just lots of green flavor, the spicy jalapeno, but the acidity from the lime is just... I love this. Oh, I love this sauce so much. And tahini is this like root flavor profile, but you're getting the vegetal side and the spice. Yeah, yeah. Really cool. I make a jar of that sauce and it will last in the fridge for a couple of weeks, actually. Well, hopefully you don't use it quicker than that. But sometimes I'll make a big batch of that sauce and then just leave it in the fridge. And it works with veggies or protein or over a sandwich or sourdough, whatever you're going to spread it on. I'm all for having a tahini based sauce in the fridge.
24:38You know, it's non-dairy. You're not really worrying about any kind of spoilage in that way. And it's so nice to have that. And I have to say, you have an amazing, you know, spice mix sauce section. It's quite elaborate in a way. So check that out. I do want to give a quick shout out for that recipe. Actually, we were talking before about recipe development and the green sauce for that recipe. I was very inspired by a chef called Amy Yee, who was the chef at a cafe called Westbourne in Soho that closed during the pandemic. But she had come up with a similar version of that green tahini sauce. And when Westbourne closed, I missed that sauce so much and ended up making it a lot at home.
25:20And that was really the inspiration for that. Oh, we're big fans of Westbourne on the show. We've talked about the sadness of Westbourne going away. Yeah. We'll have more on Westbourne for future episodes, believe me. Nice. We often ignore the final recipe in a cookbook, but not here. So on page 215, you have a recipe for this really nice, slightly complicated, but I like it, bittersweet chocolate tahini tart. Rachel, take us through this recipe. It is a little bit complicated, but, you know, I kind of think, you know, if you're going to go to the effort of creating something, you know, a baked tart, this is something that I would make when I'm entertaining guests or friends.
26:00I probably am not going to make it on my own on any given Tuesday, but it is something special to make and it's worth it. And I really think the steps are worth it. So that recipe is actually shared by a chef called Maura Kilpatrick. She's the executive chef and owner of a place up in Boston or Cambridge called Sofra. And I met Maura a couple of years ago and she's just one of the most inspiring, humble, wonderful chefs. And so this is her recipe. But when we made it for the cookbook shoot, I will say that we made lots of dessert. Obviously, we had to make everything and everyone on the shoot crew would taste everything.
Read the full transcript
26:41But this particular dish was everyone's favorite. We gobbled up this entire tart after the shoot and said, why didn't we make two? I love that feeling. But yeah, I mean, it's an amazing, so the crust is made with some cookies and sesame. It's really pretty. It's got a speckled look because it calls for both black and white sesame and the Oreo cookies. Then it's filled with a tahini ganache and it's really simple, bitter. Actually, that is the simplest part of the recipe. And then it's topped with this holliver whipped cream. And it's simple and elegant, 100 % worth it. I hope everyone makes that dish.
27:20Do you ever consider that holliver and Reese's peanut butter cups, which is a theme, a micro theme on the show? They're like kind of cousins. Yeah. How do you feel about it? I've said this before, but I want to ask the expert. Well, actually, funny you mention not so much Reese's peanut butter cups, but actually the closest analogy to Halva that we often share with someone who's never tried it before is I often say it's like the inside of a butterfinger. It's got that sort of nutty, kind of slightly chewy, flaky texture, and it's got that earthiness or the nuttiness that you're kind of getting from either Reese's or Butterfinger.
27:58But yeah, I'd love to, you know, I love to combine like the tahini in a little chocolate cup or, you know, that combination definitely is a winner. You've expanded my mind because that is exactly right because it wasn't quite the peanut butter cup, but it was definitely some kind of commercial candy. And I'm like the biggest halva fan. Some people like don't hang with it because I think they've had inferior products. Whenever I visit family in Israel, I'm like going to the market, I'm buying big bricks of it, smuggling it back. But then we've got seed and mill that kind of does the work for me.
28:29I think we get a lot of that. People often come up to our counter and they'll say, oh, I hate halvurin. And then I love to be able to say, but just try this one. And it's partially about quality of ingredients and the way that you're folding the tahini together with the sugar that creates the right texture. So all of those components will make a big difference. But also I think it's the way that you're eating it. So it does need to, in my opinion, I think it's best enjoyed, you know, in a small bite with a hot drink. Like I love to have a little cube of hovel with some coffee or tea and then it melts in your mouth.
29:04And it's also very much about the storytelling and thinking about where it comes from and the nostalgia. and for me kind of connecting the food with the culture and the history and where it comes from really adds to that experience. So I think when people come and chat to us at Cedar Mill or anywhere else and they hear about where does this come from, how is it made, all of that really adds to their overall experience. And, I mean, nine times out of ten they walk away and go, wow, actually I thought I hated Holover but I don't. It's a wonderful statement. My dad was a biggest Holover fan and we always went to, like, places in Chicago and got it.
29:43And it was after I tried yours, to be honest, like a decade ago, I was like, I've actually this this is the best olive I've ever had because I was used to like the more industrial products. And it's just something about it. And I suggest all listeners try halva once in your life if you haven't tasted it because it's so unique. That texture. Yeah. How do you get that texture in your with your producers in Israel? Yeah. I mean, that is exactly what differentiates halva from almost any other candy. And so it is very much a texture experience. And, you know, it should be a bit flaky and a bit dense, but not too chewy.
30:17And it should, honestly, the best kind of halver should, you should be able to put it in your mouth and it should just melt gently. But yeah, the texture is very hard to achieve. And it's, again, one of those things that's much more an art than a science or equal parts art and science. I mean, it's a very precise recipe, but you need to fold the sugar, a very, very hot sugar kind of mixture together with the tahini. But if you overfold it or overmix it, it'll break. And if you undermix it, then it sort of, you know, just doesn't kind of emulsify and come together. I mean, I wish I could take people on tours of watching Halvermaid in person because I think once you see the work and the artisanship and the craftsmanship in it, it changes everything.
31:05Are you visiting your producers with frequency? Have you ever made it to Ethiopia to see where the seeds are grown? So I haven't made it to Ethiopia. That's on my bucket list. And yes, I do. I visit my producers and my partners over there all the time. You know, they really feel like an extension of my family. They're the most wonderful, loving family. And, you know, they're actually, they were refugees from Iraq in the 50s and came to Israel via Iraq and brought with them all of these heritage recipes and techniques. And, you know, together we've kind of made sure that we're very, very careful about where we're sourcing both the tahini from and all the inclusion.
31:50So our pistachios are Turkish pistachios that are really vibrant and green. And we really wanted the customer to feel that difference of, wow, this is made with a lot of love. It's a beautiful story. I'd love to talk to the producers one time. Yeah. Why don't we go on a trip to Israel one day? We'll go record a podcast from the factory. That is on the list. It's a beautiful immigration story in Israel, and I'd love to meet with them and talk to them. Let's do it. And see this really hot sugar being folded into tahini. Okay. Don't have to ask me twice, Matt. I am going to blow your mind. Yeah, we're going to do this.
32:25Oh, one last thing. When you eat hova hot, when you pull it out of those big copper bowls and it's still hot, I mean, there is nothing that's going to replace that culinary experience for you. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. If you're one of those last-minute shoppers, you might know the feeling. Ideas are running low and the clock is ticking. Here's a fun idea. Aura Frames. Aura Frames is the solution with a gift that feels personal, a little curated, and sent with love. And a gift that can be purchased in no time with a few clicks of the mouse. Aura frames are great. They sent me one to check out and it was really cool and dumb simple to set up.
33:05I loaded photos using the app and it was displaying them instantly. There are no limits to the amount of photos you can load and you can customize messages with each photo. And here's the deal. You can preload an Aura frame with photos and have it directly sent to that special person in your life, gift wrapped and all. There will be no price tag and you can include a personalized message. Think about it. All those photos from this past summer's family reunion delivered in a digital frame. That is pretty cool. For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get$35 off Aura's best-selling Carver Matte Frames, named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code TASTE at checkout.
33:48That's A-U-R-A frames dot com promo code TASTE. The deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast, So order yours now to get in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts. There's big talk about cooking simplicity, but you're usually left with disappointment after smashing that promo code. Now, Clayton, have you ever tried one of those subscription boxes? Yeah, Matt, my friend gave me a code for that one that has all the chopped vegetables in little baggies.
34:26I felt like a drug dealer trying to cook dinner. Yeah, man, I have so been there. ButcherBox is a true exception. I was sent a box of premium beef and pork and was blown away by the quality and variety. There was 100 % grass-fed pasteurized ribeye, tri-tip, and ground sirloin for my favorite at-home smash burger recipe. George Motes, you better watch your back. For pork, they sent me a beautiful center-cut pork loin for slow roasting. I was super impressed, And I haven't even talked about the ribs, which I cooked in my Instant Pot. There was a rub of salt, white pepper, and togarashi, and I pressure cooked with water and apple cider vinegar.
35:06It was incredible. These ButcherBox ribs are amazing. For nearly a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free. As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free protein in every box for a year, plus$20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Rachel, on This Is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.
35:48Are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit. I'm going to say mangoes, and they have to be from Australia. Sorry. No, amazing. One thing, we don't cover the Australian native fruit scene that much. Tell me about the Australian mangoes. Well, there's this type of mango grown in Queensland called Kensington Pride mangoes, and they are just my favorite mango. I've never tasted one like that. And whenever I would come back to Sydney, the very first thing I would do is go to one of the gross – They're very seasonal, so you can only get them for about two months during the summer. And I would buy a tray of them.
36:26And I think there'd be about 12 mangoes in a tray, and that's all I will eat for about a week. Amazing. I love that memory. The worst vegetable. That's hard because I really love vegetables. It's hard for me to really think about that. But I'm going to say parsnip because I put parsnip in chicken soup, and that's about the only time I'm ever going to buy a parsnip. Yeah. Yeah, Parsons have been taking some L's as of late on this question. I think it's a good answer. The best dessert? Easy one for me. I'm obsessed with apple tart tartan. If there is an apple tart tartan on a menu, I am not ordering it.
37:04And I'm going to tell you that I had one last week from my local, the Chelsea Hotel, which just opened on 23rd Street again after many years. Cafe Chelsea have this incredible, I think it's called the Chelsea Cafe actually. Either way, they have an amazing apple tart tart. It's such a great dish. The best. You've got to get the butter right, too. The best. It's all about that. All right. You're well-traveled. Big question. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food? Oh, Matt, I am very well-traveled, and that's such a hard question. But I'm going to go back to my roots, and I'm going to say Sydney, for me, has so much fantastic food.
37:43And it's really a melting pot of so many kind of immigrants and kind of culinary cuisine from all over the world. But I love eating out in Sydney. Oh, my gosh. Still the best nam cha dim sum I've ever had in my life. Golden Century. Oh, my God. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, we need to have a debrief on that. I know. It's a great place. I'm sure there are. Love Golden Century. Yeah, there's so many spots in Sydney. What a great food city. Yeah. Let's actually go there for a sec on the mic. One restaurant in Sydney that you just, you cannot miss as a traveler there. Oh, my favorite restaurant used to be Billy Kwong by Carly Kwong.
38:19She's an amazing chef. Her food is just off the charts exquisite. But it actually closed recently. So let me think about that. I mean, I'm going to kind of probably go for, there's a Vietnamese restaurant called Famish, P-H-A-M-I-S-H, and I'm obsessed with Famish. Amazing Vietnamese food. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. Oh. dead. As in like closed. Closed. Not there anymore. Years ago, could have been last week. There's a restaurant that I used to love, love, love eating at. It was in Tel Aviv. It was on a street called Schenken Street and it was called Orno and Ella.
39:03And I think it closed maybe 10 years ago, but I lived in Tel Aviv in the 90s and I would eat there every week. And I think I read somewhere that Yota Motolenghi may have worked there at a point in time, but I think it trained a lot of iconic chefs. And it was an incredible and small institution, very inspiring. Incredible restaurants in Tel Aviv. Yeah. Shankan's got some great ones. Yeah. All right. Big one, your top New York City restaurant of 2024. Matt, you know, I really eat out in my neighborhood. And I do like to eat out when I travel, but when I'm in New York, I'm really loyal to my people.
39:44And actually, one book that I read over the Christmas break just recently was Will Godara's Unreasonable Hospitality that I'd never read. It's been out for a few years, but I love that book. And particularly, he talks a lot about how you feel in a restaurant and the hospitality experience. And so I'm going to kind of come back to a shout out for kind of either Cookshop or Chiquette, both owned by Vicky. But the way I feel in their restaurants is as important to me as the food that I'm served. So I'm going to name Chiquette. It's a great reminder to just when you're when you love a restaurant, just become a patron.
40:21Yeah. Restaurants need support. And we have so many new restaurants. You're going to read Grub Street or Eater and want to go to all the places. And I love new restaurants and support them. but support the guys that you really like more often than not, perhaps. I mean, I walk into those two restaurants and they know who I am and they welcome me like I'm an extended member of their family and nothing replaces that feeling and that experience than the meal. Your favorite cookbook of all time? Oh, I knew you would ask me that. And I have about a thousand cookbooks, actually. Keeping us in business here.
40:55I love that. I mean, I love, live for cookbooks, even though I don't necessarily read all the recipes. I actually just flick through them like novels. I do, I love, I love everything that's ever been written by Claudia Rodin. I think she's a really kind of, she's an iconic Middle Eastern icon and she now lives in London. But there's a couple of recipes from some of her books, particularly her. She has a recipe for a whole orange and almond cake that I've made every single year for my kids' birth, both of their birthdays. And I love her writing. What a great travel writer, too. Yes, yes. I mean, that's the one thing about Claudia Rodin.
41:36It's amazing recipes, of course, but just getting out in the field in the 90s, iconic. If I can give a quick shout out as well to a more recent book that I love, and I'm pulling it out every time I want to entertain. I loved Open Kitchen by Susan Spungen. I think it's one of those books that I've pulled out every time I've wanted to entertain over the last couple of years. I've pulled it out. Her photography is great. Her styling is great. And the recipes are all the things that I want to make all the time. Great call. And you should check out our Susan Spungen episode in our archive because we have a great conversation with Susan.
42:08Last one, your favorite sandwich. Oh, sandwich. I don't eat a lot of sandwiches, I'm going to be honest, but I'm obsessed with sourdough bread. So I love sourdough toast. I'm kind of probably going to say I love a Vegemite and butter sourdough toast. Yes. It showed up at the end. The Vegemite had to show up. I don't know if your audience even knows what Vegemite is. Oh, I think you might have a jar in the fridge. Yeah. I mean, it's a polarizing ingredient. A lot of people don't love it, but it needs a lot of butter. I love it. Has to be sourdough for me and it has to be toasted. The toast is the answer.
42:50Rachel Simons, what a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thanks so much for having me, Matt. This has been great.
43:01Amelia Petrarca, This Is Taste. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to get to chat with you. You're one of my favorite writers and I feel like putting a voice to the byline is always is such a delight. Yeah, I apologize. I'm a little under the weather, but I don't normally sound like this. It's okay. I feel like the springtime allergies have made all my recent episodes a lot more nasally than they normally would be. But you sound great. And it's so fun to have you on the show. I wanted to invite you on because I have been loving your newsletter, ShopRat, and your writing in general.
43:37And I read a recent piece of yours about what I would call, what you call the RESTORANT. So STOR is all caps in that. And I wanted to chat with you about it because I think it's such an interesting moment in like food culture and shopping culture that we're in. And I'm wondering to start if you could kind of define what a RESTORANT is to someone who's listening and hasn't maybe like thought about a name in that kind of way. Yeah, for sure. So I just, I mean, I'm not the only one who noticed this, but there are a lot of, I guess You could call them like it's like either a restaurant or like a coffee bar within a restaurant opening up in New York.
44:20And it just felt like so many places where you could get a coffee or a meal were branded now that I wanted to go out and try a bunch of different ones to see like, you know, sort of what the experience was like, if the food was good. Um, but in terms of what they look like, it's, it can range from a restaurant within a department store. Uh, it could be Uniqlo opened its own like cafe called like the Uniqlo cafe. Um, the Armani restaurant reopened in New York. Uh, I went to, um, this is not in New York, but in London, Alaya, uh, brought in this like very popular, um, London based bakery into its store.
45:07So it just felt like the food and fashion crossover was happening in a more intense way. Oh, and sorry, there was one more that I wanted to mention, which is Louis Vuitton opened a cafe uptown and it was like impossible. I mean, still, it's impossible to get a reservation. There's like entire Reddit threads about it. And that was another one that stood out to me. Yeah, I think they're all great examples. I think when I think about what a restaurant is in my previous experience, the Bloomingdale's Cafe, obviously, an iconic early one. I was in London at the end of last year and I was at the Dover Street Market there and they have a Rose Bakery location up on the third floor, which is a popular bakery in London as well.
45:53And I think it's really interesting to think about like why these kind of like department stores or brands would be interested in bringing like food into the building and like what kind of purpose the restaurant serves. And I'm curious in your reporting if you saw any kind of common threads there in terms of like what the intention is and maybe like how it actually looks like in practice. Yeah. So like you said, it's not a new thing at all. Um, it's, it makes like, like practical sense to have, to offer dining in a store, especially a department store, because the idea is that you stay a while.
46:31They, you know, they want to make sure I, whenever I go shopping, I always make sure that I have a big meal beforehand because, you know, shopping is, shopping is cardio. It can be, it can be exhausting. Um, you don't want to be in a bad mood when you're trying on jeans. You don't want to be hangry. Um, so yeah, it is in a store's best interest to provide you with food and beverage. So, um, yeah, not a new thing, but I guess, uh, what I noticed this time around that felt different, um, was the sheer number of them happening at once. Um, and also, um, I felt like something that is maybe another reason why, um, these stores might be offering food and beverage right now is because the price of goods has just gotten so insane that a coffee or a Louis Vuitton monogrammed dessert is for a lot of people, the only way that they can really buy into these brands.
47:35And I think before that category used to be perfume or sunglasses, or you can get like a key chain or something. And, you know, those are still, um, there's entry points for, you know, these luxury brands. Uh, but even those things are, you know, it could be like$600 for a pair of sunglasses. So, uh, by comparison, a$25 dollar dessert is a much easier way in and you can Instagram it and it still has this sort of level of exclusivity to it because reservations are impossible to get a hold of. So it allows people to like feel like they're participating in this sort of rarefied world without, you know, going into debt.
48:25Yeah, I think it's a really interesting point. And I think the like proximity to the store is also something that's interesting to me because I think the Polo Bar here in New York, which is Ralph Lauren's restaurant, like to me, that's a good example of like, this is a restaurant by a brand that's been around for a while now. That's a really difficult reservation. And I don't actually shop at Ralph Lauren that often, but I don't think there's a store attached to it. Right. It's kind of like a standalone place. Yeah. It's its own thing. And Ralph, um there's also ralph's coffee um which was another sort of like i think one of the sort of earlier examples of a luxury brand getting into uh coffee and cookies and um yeah the polo bar it's like it's very obviously ralph lauren but no you wouldn't you could you could potentially go in there and have no idea that it was affiliated with ralph lauren yeah it's like the same aesthetic but then like fashion influences so many different things so there could be another restaurant that has the Ralph Lauren vibe, but that's just because it's like an aspirational thing to aspire to.
49:31Yeah. And for the brand, it's also just another great way to like bring you into their world. Um, and especially for a brand like Ralph Lauren or Armani, where they have, you know, they have home lines, they sell pillows, they sell, um, bed sheets, they sell, you know, other things. So it, it's like another way to show off their, um, like the range of their products as well and make you want to like, you know, have Ralph Lauren or Armani be in your closet, but also like throughout your home as well. Yeah. So for your newsletter, you did this kind of experiment where you went around for the whole day just kind of eating at all of these different restaurants.
50:11I'm curious what that was like for you, if there were any things that you ate that you felt like stood alone on the food perspective or if everything was kind of like colored with this status of the brand that was associated with it? Yeah. So I started at Printemps, which is a new department store down on Wall Street. It's a Parisian department store. And this is, I think, their first, yeah, it's their first New York location. And I went and there was a line like down the block. It was opening day. So I should have, I should have known. Um, but so I quickly bailed and, um, went up to the Uniqlo cafe instead where I spent, I think$7 on a matcha latte.
50:58That was like totally fine. Um, it did not taste like a Uniqlo, like there was nothing Uniqlo about it other than the like Uniqlo. Um, did you do like oat milk in the matcha latte? What was the question? I think I did regular milk. I'm thinking about like the cost. I feel like$7 for a matcha with alt milk in Manhattan, unfortunately, I would think is pretty par for the course. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I think I just like don't really like matcha, but it was more the vibe in the store. It felt like I was drinking a matcha in a store. It didn't feel luxurious to me at all. It was like, I felt like I was a little bit in a sort of fluorescent lit lighting, um, airport terminal or something.
51:46Uh, so I got out of there pretty quickly. Um, and then I was up by Louis Vuitton, but I sort of have, after having read these Reddit threads and set like a million resi alerts, like literally for every hour of every day for like a week straight, I was like, this is not worth my time. So I did not go to Louis Vuitton and I did not go to the polo bar. So basically I found with my day of trying to like eat at these spots that like, I couldn't get into half of them. But I did eventually go to Printemps, I think the next, or like that Monday and it was raining. It was like 11 AM and I walked right in And their full restaurant hadn't opened yet, but they have a champagne bar on the second floor and it was completely packed with people.
52:38And I was sort of surprised to see so many people drinking wine at like 1130 in the morning, but good for them. And I got myself a chocolate chip cookie, which to me is like a really important thing for any sort of cafe or bakery or store to have. And it was it was really good. So I was happy about that. I'm glad the cookie was good. And I think Printemps is a really interesting example because they have Chef Gregory Gordet, who's doing, I believe, like all of the dining across all five of the kind of culinary options available there, which, you know, he's been on the Taste podcast before. He is a James Beard Award winning chef from the West Coast, from the Pacific Northwest.
53:24So I think to have a department store that from your New York mag story seems like doesn't even have like a ton of retail necessarily. Like it's more about the experience. The fact that they would have like five different options for people to like eat or drink something while they're there seems like a really like conscientious effort to be kind of leaning into this kind of like the brand as an experience space. definitely yeah um i interviewed for my newsletter uh laura lendram who uh she she's with print on but she used to be um at ralph lauren when and and was a part of the team that launched ralph's and the polo bar and she also um used to work at d and de luca which was my like all-time favorite luxury grocery store in soho so good the best chocolate chip cookie for an exorbitant amount of money.
54:12So it makes a lot of sense if, you know, with her involvement, it makes a lot of sense that the store would be leaning into food and beverage. But yeah, I mean, it's a little sparse right now. I think that they'll eventually get more merchandise in. But yeah, the idea is that it's a place that you will want to hang out like all day or for any sort of like in-between moment that you might have throughout the day. And I think in an area like Wall Street, having a sort of luxurious, fun, colorful, like energetic place to hang out is really important. And as evidenced by the fact that everyone was drinking there at 1130 a.m.
54:55in the morning, I think people are clearly like craving a space like that. Yeah. I'm curious how much you think this idea of trying to win people back to be shopping like in person in stores fits into this, like whether that's another kind of lore that you can come by and see if it, you know, if you fit into this in the moment and that you can also like get a coffee or a glass of champagne or something while you're there. Yeah, for sure. I think people really want to hang out and they want to shop. They might not necessarily be able to buy anything, but they, or, you know, like drop a ton of money in one place.
55:33But yeah, they're looking for experiences. And I think especially now that like people aren't in the office so much or they're working from home more on the weekends, it's like, okay, where am I, where can I go? And, you know, museums are great and there's parks and everything, but a store is just like, it's such a sensory, indulgent experience. and especially when things are so depressing right now in the world, I just think like a place like Brenton, which is, it truly feels like Disneyland or I don't know if you've seen Wicked, but like the shiz university that kept coming to mind. Like it really feels like you're sort of stepping into another fantasy world and it's fun and it's bright and everyone's happy and drinking.
56:21And yeah, I just think that there's a real craving for that right now. And in New York, whether you're a local or a tourist down on Wall Street. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I guess like this dovetails into another conversation that I think media is always having, which is about like where does the fashion crowd in New York like to eat out these days? I know there is a big story about Ralph's, which I think is such a great restaurant. But I imagine that you're probably not, you know, eating at restaurants all the time, whether it's for fun or for like other brand events. I'm curious if you think there are any like restaurants or cafes or spaces that the fashion crowd is like frequenting in New York these days.
57:03That's a good question. Yeah, I don't think it's the restaurant, although fashion people go wherever there's a free meal. um i think uh you know if a brand like armani is like the fashion crew they they like to uh go somewhere where they can get a free meal but also where they can where they don't have to feel like the riffraff who have to go on resi and make a reservation like i think the you know one of the only ways that you can like get into the polo bar is if if you have like the email of the maitre d' or something like that and so that's I think the like part of the appeal of of it is that you have to know somebody you have to know the right people to get into it um so you know maybe the Armani restaurant is some is similar to that as well um I think that they're also eating at places like um Vodor uh which is a new restaurant of town from the Frenchette team I I believe.
58:05Um, and I think people like to, it's, you know, it's very small. Um, it's, you feel like your time traveling a little bit. It's, you know, they, they took a former space in New York and, and sort of judged it, redid it. Um, but like kept all of the, the look and feel of the space. So it, you know, it doesn't, it feels not of this modern time. Um, and, uh, Yeah, I think people are they're eating at places that feel cozy and warm and secluded and private and also just expensive. Yeah. I mean, gold is like in the name of the restaurant and you just feel you feel like you're somewhere else and living the good life when you're there.
58:59Yeah, I think the fantasy of the restaurant dovetailing with the fantasy of the outfit makes a lot of sense. And I guess, where do you like to go eat when you don't want to bump into fashion people? oh god okay good question i moved to park slope thinking that i would be safe but i'm certainly not um i i have it's just like my local spot i go to aldi law which is like a really good um italian restaurant in park slope but and and so far i have not run into anyone there but i wouldn't be surprised if i did i don't think that you can go anywhere in new york and and not run into people yeah it's kind of like murphy's law whenever you think that you are not going to see anyone, then you see everybody.
59:42Yeah. Yeah. Park Slope has not, I'm not marked safe in Park Slope. I wanted to turn this into like a semi-advised column for me. I feel like every spring I completely forget how to dress for the weather. And then now that outdoor dining is a thing again and people are kind of getting their parklets set back up, I run into this question of like, what do I wear when I'm going out to dine in the spring in New York? And I'm curious if you have any answers from yourself or like things that you've been noticing that you think are good ideas. I've written about this before, but I called it restaurant pajamas, which is like, I'm not suggesting that anyone wear like actual pajamas to a restaurant, but I like to have my restaurant outfit give this sort of air of pajamas in the sense that it's comfortable and um but also you know like I'm talking like pajama suit set where it feels luxurious to you're not like in like boxers and a tank top or something like yeah yeah I'm talking like I'm talking a night a night suit oh yeah I like to I like it to be like a little slinky a little um but like comfort comfort is key for me it's like my favorite thing to do is stay for as many hours as I possibly can at a restaurant.
1:01:04And so you want to be in something that you feel good in, preferably stretchy waistband. Yeah. I don't know. I think in New York, we don't dress up too much to go out to restaurants. And I'm just coming from Milan, which I love visiting because everyone is really dressed up. I never pack jeans when I go to Milan and I love that it's just um you can if a restaurant is really like an occasion whereas I feel like in New York restaurants are just like it's like my extension of like my home because I never eat at home so I think the restaurant pajamas idea is like uh making it feel like homey and cozy but also um like a little bit elevated not too fancy not not like Taylor Swift try hard, but not like Justin Bieber slob somewhere in between.
1:02:06Yeah. I think for me, I always wanted to be like, you know, not something I would wear just to work around the house at home or go to my friend's place, but also not like something that still feels comfortable. Cause you're right. You want to kind of settle in and enjoy the meal and just kind of like be present in the space. Yeah. I'm also always thinking about like waist up. It doesn't really matter what you wear on the bottom. Yeah. I guess before you go, I'm curious if you have any other thoughts about like the intersection of fashion and food in this, in this current moment. Um, yeah, I guess I would say it's like, it's always, it's always been there, but it's like heightened right now in this economy and, um, something that I maybe didn't touch upon as much as the other points is like just people wanting to sort of signal something by visiting these establishments and sharing that they were there um that like walking around I think that there was maybe a time when walking around with like a designer coffee cup was sort of lame and I don't know it seems to be not as lame right now and it's like a sign that you you went to the place and you did the thing.
1:03:20And it's not maybe it's not like such a mass thing. It's not as accessible. And so it's like kind of a flex to say that you got a reservation at some branded restaurant or got a cup of coffee from. I feel like we're also that sort of relates to the bakery craze that we're in. I feel like we're in a sort of cronut moment again, where people are lining up for insane amounts of time to get a pastry. And I don't know what that says about our, I think people are just like dying for something that feels like good and comforting and special and a pastry or a dessert is that. And, but you also, and they're expensive, but they're not as expensive as a pair of sunglasses.
1:04:07So maybe it's like a recession indicator. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I'm right now recording this like two blocks away from the Louis Vuitton cafe. And I was on the Google reviews and, you know, it's like the most mentioned things. So like some people mentioned the ravioli or some people mentioned the appetizers, but the most mentioned keyword in the reviews right now is the monogram. Interesting. Because it's on every single piece of thing that you order there. Even like the burger bun has a kind of like branded monogram on the top. So I think you're definitely onto something there in terms of like people wanting to participate in things and people wanting to signal that they're able to do so.
1:04:47Yeah. And it's very, it goes very Instagrammable. I think it sort of folds into the whole, like people wanting to travel, wanting to show that they're, it's like less about a thing and more about a lifestyle. And I think, yeah, I don't know that I could stomach a Louis Vuitton branded burger, but for some people that's like the ultimate luxury. So go off. Well, if we ever get the reservation, you're welcome to come and split one with me. This was great, Amelia. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me.
1:05:28This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.
From the publisher
Driven by her passion for food and travel, Rachel Simons traded her corporate law career for an entrepreneurial adventure, cofounding Seed + Mill, New York’s first store devoted entirely to sesame products. Located in the iconic Chelsea Market, the business quickly captured the hearts of locals and tourists alike, evolving into a nationally celebrated brand. Today on the show, we speak with Rachel about her growing business and her terrific new cookbook, Sesame: Global Recipes + Stories of an Ancient Seed.
Also on the show, Aliza chats with fashion writer Emilia Petrarca about the rise of the resSTOREaunt, aka restaurants attached to luxury brands in NYC and beyond.
Do you enjoy This Is TASTE? Drop us a review on Apple, or star us on Spotify. We’d love to hear from you.
READ MORE:
Would you eat at a reSTOREant? [Shop Rat]
Give Printemps un Moment [The Cut]
Seed + Mill Halva [official]
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
