584: Jamie Oliver Stops By!

29:30They buy mashed potatoes. Like it's the most expensive way to consume mashed potato. They're buying it. And they're very brand loyal. Because it's convenience. And this goes back to the root of your argument and your program is that if you have these 10 basic skills in the kitchen. You have power. You can actually cook with Whole Foods, healthier, cheaper. You can still buy crap, but you have choice. You have choice and you have agency. And how are you engaging with the American education system? Because you have these ambitious plans and you have, you know, I'm linking to the show notes, the website you've created.

30:01I find it very ambitious. I find it very, very cool that you want to come over here and, you know, make some noise. Yeah. I mean, I'm not coming over here as a Brit. I'm coming over as a human, really. But also, as I've kind of got older and a little bit more romantic and a little bit more wise about how campaigning works and how government works, it's a sort of weird two-toned approach. Like, the reason that I believe... Two-toned is a good way to put it. Yeah. Well, so first of all, like... We have two tones in the States. You're right. Humans' capacity for change is very low. People hate change.

30:39Governments hate change. So there's that against us. But also humans only tend to really, really react quickly and fast, which we have proved over history, when things get really bad. So we're really close to really bad. Like average child health in Britain and America is really bad. Like, you know, the kind of diseases that we're amplifying through bad lifestyle and mainly bad diets is really bad. the carnage and chaos that is happening and will continue to get worse and the divide between rich and poor homelessness and like it's all connected it's all part of the environment that we live in so so the it's almost like that old saying of the pain of change you know no one likes change until the pain of not changes change is worse than change itself right i don't know if i said that correctly i think we can pick it up in that so just kidding no yeah basically no one likes change until the pain of not changing is worse than change itself.

31:41So what I'm trying to say to you is the best thing on my side at the moment is the fact that things are so bad. So I think we're at a pivot point in the next sort of seven years. At the same time, I think AI is going to be really interesting and it's going to make us reimagine school and hopefully re-love teachers and re-support teachers. But I think we're going to have to do things differently. And I think that the school of the future needs to have – not just nurturing and nourishing the mind, but nourishing the body and the planet central to learning. So, you know, if you've got kids 180 days of the year, as you do in America, and they're going to have a breakfast and a lunch, it might as well be good.

32:25And if you teach them 10 lessons to save their life, you know, 10 cookery recipes, you know, 10 recipes to save your life, which is essentially making American kids streetwise about food, where it comes from, and how it affects their body. Like, you can teach history way better through food, geography through food. Yeah, because you'll have that compulsory education, and you'll be able to link it back. Environment, sustainability, all through food. Just teaching farming. And look, we used to work with Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada, in proving that teaching and empowering kids about food, where it comes from, and how it affects their body, proving that it actually would make more money for your country.

33:05It's better for GDP. It makes you more productive, less people off sick. So, like, the science is there. Yeah. Like, the ethics is there. The potential for amplifying American culture, because it's all around food, right? Of course. And that's a major piece there. Like, all the bits are there. I mean, how many people want to be a chef when they're in eighth grade? Like, what was it in the 80s, 90s? Yeah, or just under 1%. Now it's like 10 to 15%. How many of the best moments in American culture happen with food around it? Like nearly all of it. So I think like everything's kind of roughly in place, but we just need it to get worse to get better.

33:44And I only say that with a little bit of wisdom on my side. But I think what we can do is get organized. And so 10 lessons, for instance, I just made it really easy for schools or after school clubs. Like it's just free. Yeah, it's just free. We write it for the teachers or the guardians, make it really easy for them. We give them videos. We give them pictures. We kind of, you know, we'll do incredible competitions. So school administrators and teachers. Just sign up. Sign up. Yeah, we'll put a link on your links. And it's like, it's free. And it's like, and then as, you know, what I realize is that teachers feel quite unlistened to in the matrix.

34:19So like when they message us, we respond really quickly and we do listen and we tweak our courses. So like we've got, we're in 500 schools in the UK, but I'm growing fast. but we did a test last year in um uh la yeah hence launching it this year to anyone yeah i love that i want to switch gears you have another major theme uh and it's something that you're very open about in the documentary uh in 2019 your your restaurant group went into administration bankruptcy here in the states and um you know it's a tough time and you you clearly uh it was painful to lose 15 lose this restaurant that you just talked about all the money you invested went away And, I mean, Jamie, in 2019, and I ask this question because we have a lot of folks in the industry listening to the show, like chefs and operators.

35:07And we talk about cost of goods. We talk about tax disparities and payroll tax. In 2019, what was the biggest hurdle for you that caused you to have to make this really difficult decision? Oh, so we were basically running the most incredible business for, like, I'd say eight or nine years. Yeah. and in retrospect it was always going to die i just didn't know it so we kind of powered through it was like basically it was a mid-market italian restaurant like incredible ingredients yeah um lots of direct buying from farmers so there was efficiencies on both sides but loyalty on both sides and like quality on both sides uh we trained really hard with staff so we hardly lost any staff it was incredible we literally took pot washers and made them head chefs over sort of like five years so loads of training but we had purchased or rented sites and we just kind of after the initial success of like three or four restaurants like we're killing it i think like i didn't realize there was an arrogance that i didn't know about frankly where we were just paying 30 percent over the odds for rents and like it was a real estate yeah yeah so and then in in the uk we had rates that were based on the rent and that went up 40 over two years and then at the same time there was like the kind of uberization of food um so the high street across the country had about 16 decline so then we had all these peach sites with less people walking past them yeah um and everything was kind of being sort of digitized but we we couldn't retrospect we had real kitchens so we couldn't just have bike riders coming in and picking up our food and like taking it everywhere So we died over about three years and it was very painful.

36:50But the truth is, I mean, what I've learned is that, and this is a tough one for chefs because they're often very emotional, very creative, as I was.

37:02Like now I know that you can only be, you only have permission truly to be creative once you've got like the belt and braces and like the ship built right. You know, your, your labor model needs to be correct. Like your rent needs to be malleable for shit times. And you've got to have a little bit of like stretch. And we had none. So like, so because we were all about ethics, like, like other businesses, because I knew when I went down others would. So about literally six months after me, like another five, like people similar to us went down, but I couldn't, I got to a point where I can't go from selling sustainable fish to not to save a bit of money or like like you know beautiful free-range meats to like yeah filthy shite like you know what I mean like you couldn't go from caring to not caring to like save the business it's like yeah we were dead so we were like basically like a bit of a weather a weather vane yeah for everyone else and of course it went into a recession after that so that was that was tough but look I I feel more rounded now as a restaurateur I feel more rounded now as a businessman i mean there's nothing more brutal than having everything lost did you think about packing it up i mean at 2019 that would have been a time when you could have just not gone back into the restaurant industry you could have i mean you almost your whole production company almost went under yeah and all your employees yeah i mean on the media side that was always separate so okay so you weren't that was never right no but that's good but it was but it was um look like my my home is the restaurant i grew up in a restaurant i grew up above a restaurant my language to thrive was the restaurant and honestly like the business we created like all the hard stuff we got right and you know and and i i'm happy to talk about it as well because i never took a wage or a dividend so i never made anything over the hard stuff is like the culture you created but the easiest of was just signing that lease right yeah i i just i would i knew i had to come back but I also knew that the press would be brutal.

39:06So I think we did a pretty good job of coming back with Catherine Street. I mean, this is the food of my childhood. Like it's that kind of comforting food that makes you feel really good and it's been really beautiful bringing it back. But I think also it's important in life to dust off and crack on and not complain. But I mean, obviously for many nights I re-evaluated how, when, why, what, what could I have done differently? Like, what did I do? You still regret those decisions before 2019. Yeah, but some of them are like, some of the decisions around leadership are really hard. It's a bit like parenting.

39:44Do you know what I mean? It's like, you know, like you can get being kind wrong. Do you know what I mean? If you incentivize people well and you think, oh, well, I'm a great boss, that is really good. But then if you do it the wrong way, you can create monsters that are just trying to work for that incentive rather than you, which you should be the brand and the customers. So you can do really, you can make massive mistakes by being kind. So you've got to be, leadership's tough. Because it's really, you don't want to create opportunities for oxygen to turn into monsters. Do you know what I mean?

40:18You want everything to be about the customer. The incentives need to be aligned with your core values. It has to be the customer, customer, customer. Yeah. And if you skew someone getting a divvy up because they've got like, you know, 3 % of something that's worth 180 million quid. Like you're going to create a monster. Like because they've already spent the money, by the way. They've already spent the money. They bought the house. They've literally about to buy the jacket. So like you just, even how you bring your team along with you. So like it was a massive masterclass for me to like, I thought I was so smug in like being nice and creating cute little kind of B Corp environments.

40:53And it was lovely, but like you can get that wrong. so it's just like it i'll go i'll have another go before my time's up and i think and it's not about greed or scale it's what it is it's about like it's really really important that you show the industry that mid-market you mean a restaurant beyond catherine street yeah you want yeah i have to do something that's multiple site again if i could tell you the energy by having hundreds of chefs engaged yeah focused on the same north star like having a culture of not just how you employ but how you treat the team but also like you know when you've got amazing dry plucked chicken that's like a rare breed from one farm and everyone else is cooking the old regular shit and like you've got like your stuff's getting crispier and tasty like it's like it gets geeky like you start getting passionate about tomatoes from a specific place in a tin making a better sauce yeah you know even if it's going on a pizza like like it there's like there's a there's a there's a kind of another jamie that's sort of really boring like gets nerdy but like you can wrap that all into multiple sites um but i think my next passion and challenge when i do do it is to is a hybrid of what i learned during j.i uh jamie's italian and what i learned in 15 and as obvious as it sounds it's all about talent and it's all about staff.

42:19So if you admit that most chefs are skint and if you admit that it's impossible to save enough money to get a bank loan to start your own restaurant, then what I would like 15.2 to be and my multiple site 0.2 to be is some kind of, how would you use Jamie Oliver? Well, use it for a bit of clout to let me do supply chain and all the health checks and all the kind of geeky science stuff that makes sure that we're getting the best stuff from the best place and gets it to you in a really efficient way. Let me kind of get customers through the door as helpfully and effortlessly as possible and then make you a partner.

42:59So I think the next model will be almost like a hybrid partnership. And offering equity to some employees as it rises up. I think that's a model that we see in the States a lot. If you think about what I created and I never took a wage or a dividend, right? So basically I ran a charity for 15 years. That's 13 years. That's the way I look at it now. So like, okay, well, if we go again, how about actually we invest in people that living in their neighborhood, didn't come to that neighborhood, like get talent in that area so they stay in that area and just concentrate on amazing, incredible mid-market, good value food that's completely consistent and predictable and you can rely on.

43:39What's the timeline for this? I'd like to do it in the next two years when we slightly hopefully get out of this weird time at the moment So 15.2 and then a Jamie's Italian which is like a wide scale I like the idea that I work for my chefs not they work for me It's a really good energy And then I can kind of be like It sounds wanky but I don't mean it to sound like the Pied Piper of the brand The values keep us all consistent Keep us all honest But I think if I can look after them then I think they'll look after me And I think then, and again, it sounds really cheesy, but then we can look after the produce.

44:11It's not cheesy. It's real. No, I'm going to call you out. It's not cheesy. It's not. It's real. And I appreciate what you're saying. I kind of half got there. I half got there. Yeah. And all this, like the experiment, genuinely it was an experiment. The experiment was, could you get Michelin level ingredients into mid-market dining? Yeah. That was the experiment, honestly. Right? Yes is the answer. Yes. I mean, getting the price point right too. strategic buying direct buying yeah um and um clarity on on growth and how they could be part of that um and but all the hard stuff i got right and all the old-fashioned stuff i got wrong so when i do go again i promise i won't get that a few minutes left i'm like jamie you're good you're good on the drums man like what what's up with this like i didn't know this like there is a scene in the documentary and again it's on netflix check it out there's four new episodes i have a favorite uh i think it's clear that you practice ah well you have that set in your at your home yeah i don't practice enough really but what's what's your routine like as in what does that mean like your your drumming routine are you are you going out there in the morning before the day starts No, no, I need to.

45:30It's something weird. So I've drummed since I was 11. Yeah. And I love to drum. And it's like I feel like I can express myself. Yeah. But, yeah, ever since my nan died, she left me piano. And I've just been trying to get good at the piano. Well, you see, you have a music room. You have, like, all sorts of gear. Yeah, yeah. So I play the piano really badly. And I should be spending more time doing my drums. But I guess it's the kind of example of what I was saying earlier. like push yourself to sort of learn new things, you know, learn a language. Ten minutes a day. Ten minutes a day doing something you don't want to do is super powerful if you do it every day.

46:08If you just do it once, it means nothing. But the drumming I love, and it is a good workout. I could tell. You're sweating a little bit. I saw you a little bit of smitz there. Okay, so UK, like the home of some of our legends of drumming, is it John Bonham or is it Keith Moon? Do you have a preference? Ah, do you know what? I mean, like Keith Moon was always very good. I have a favorite now. Okay. Yusuf Days. Yusuf Days, all right. Look up this dude, Yusuf Days. I'm dyslexic, but I think it's like Y-U-S-I-F, something like that. He wrote an album with a guy called Tom Mish in lockdown called, I think it's My Kind of Music.

46:50Okay. It is the most badass. I'll check. The beats, oh my God. like and also because I know I could never do those beats because the ghost notes and stuff he's doing is so annoying oh ghost notes you're going there man but no he's just doing stuff that I'm like the body can't do that really is that possible oh my god but also like you know some humans are like the coolest like he can put a bin liner on and he'll look cool yeah and like so his outfits but it's really because normally normally the drummers are in the background like literally no one cares but so his band he's going it's like Yusuf first and check out that album it's very good I love the plug.

47:25Jamie Oliver, this has been fun. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thanks for having me. From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, an exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story. The 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist. Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-starred talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus.

48:12The full program is available at montrealonlumiere.com. presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts. There's big talk about cooking simplicity, but you're usually left with disappointment after smashing that promo code. Now, Clayton, have you ever tried one of those subscription boxes? Yeah, Matt, my friend gave me a code for that one that has all the chopped vegetables in little baggies. I felt like a drug dealer trying to cook dinner.

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49:23It was incredible. These ButcherBox ribs are amazing. For nearly a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free. As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free protein in every box for a year, plus$20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Jay Cohen, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you, man? Hi, I'm great. It's great to see you. I know. I'm excited to hear about your new cookbook club.

50:07But first, I have to ask, where are you going out in New York? What are your spots right now? What's the rotation? So this is, maybe it's a controversial opinion, but like, I don't want to go out for dinner. Like, I'm just like not someone, I want to be home for dinner. Yeah. I'm a lady who lunches. I'm a lady who breakfasts. Yeah. I'm someone who, like, I'm all about the daytime spots right now. Always have, always will be. So right now I actually have this one routine where I bring all my friends, literally just led, I think it was like, we had like 15 people in our crew last weekend and we start at Buba Bureka's.

50:39Yes. New spot, my best friend Ben Gingy. absolutely exceptional from the team behind Brett's Bakery as well as Ben who's just such a brilliant chef. Will you intro me to him? Yeah, of course. Because I want to talk to him about those lines. I got you. I got you. He also has an incredible cookbook coming out. Oh, amazing. Because here's the thing. You want to hear the... This is... I am... Cookbook author is probably second. First, I'm matchmaker. Yeah. So what I do is literally all my friends get introduced to my best friend, Sarah, who's also my literary agent. So now she reps like, she reps me, she reps Ben Gingy she reps Benny Blanco she reps all these people because like if I meet someone I'm like oh you want to do a cookbook here's your girl okay you get in your cut at least you get in your like percentages from these of course not it's not about that it's about the community no it's great yeah but so then we start at Buba and then we walk over to Hani's to Miro and Shilpa's bakery Miro and Shilpa Uzkokovic Miro was obviously the pastry chef of Gramercy Tavern Shilpa is I think and I say this constantly to her and she always like rolls her eyes she is the most exciting thing in food media right now.

51:43She is my favorite recipe developer. I think the work she does at Bon App is exceptional. She's the person who keeps me on my toes and wants me to be like a better recipe developer. I love Shilpa and we had her on and both those guys on recently on our show. So I'll link to that episode in the show notes. Love this like one, two punch. You're going one, two and then you're going home. Yeah. I mean, by that time, I will say there were moments and this is like, it's so, we were talking about this a little bit before we started. So my friends will sometimes come straight from the club to the bakery.

52:14And that's like the way that we end the evening. And it's the best. What's the club rotation in New York right now? What's good? Well, depends on the vibe. I'm someone who can do just about anything. More often than not, I'm at Basement, which is a techno club underneath the Knockdown Center in Mass Beth, Queens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, I mean, funny enough, I'm going Friday, well, tomorrow. and we'll probably end the night. I promised Zoe Kanad that we're going to go to Elbow, so I'll probably go straight from the club to Elbow. So like an 8 a.m., 7 a.m. catch-up. Okay, so how do you prepare for a duration session at Basement food-wise?

52:55Like what's your cooking routine, like 4 or 5 p.m. right before you're going to hit the club? Interesting. It's simple. It's really like simple proteins. I'm big on what my best friend refers to as slop. Like I'm big on slop cooking. So my mornings are typically some type of like, I make this oatmeal chia porridge slop that I mix in cottage cheese with, and it's like 50 grams of protein. And then in the evening, I do a lot of other slop. So what I do is I make almost like a sloppy joes type thing. And then what I'll do is I'll roast Japanese sweet potatoes, and then I'll just smash them on a plate and spoon over the slop and there you go.

53:39So the slop is like the protein, right? The slop is the protein. And then you've got like legumes and like potatoes. Yeah, but I'm not doing legumes before I'm going to basement. I'm not. That's crazy. That's crazy. Especially if it's a gay party. Uh-uh. Absolutely not. Fair enough. So I love this like prep. I feel the idea of the slop cookbook, you could own that. You know, we've discussed it, discussed it with my editor. Like I think there'll be a slop chapter. Yeah. I don't think the world is ready. Trust me. Listen, it'll be those things. I'm always been ahead of my time. You have been. I think that the world's not ready for that conversation of a slop cookbook.

54:16So right now we'll start with a slop chapter in my next book. So what are the next books? So let's talk about the cookbook club. You know, your approach to do clubs, I'm sure. What made you decide this was the moment and working with Allstora? What was what was the impetus of that? So I've known about Eric Cervini for a long time. He's obviously an incredible queer, documentarian, writer, brilliant man. I bake cookies. So it's like when I see people that are truly doing really incredible work in terms of writing. writing um i've been a huge fan he also did this show that a bunch of my friends had like acted in they were like i don't even know how to describe it because they're like uh tiktokers yeah he had a couple of like cool gay tiktokers in this show he did um so i've known about him for a while then he obviously started this with his partner adam powell as well as rupaul um and really like the goal was to help with like places with the book bans of making sure that there was access to LGBTQ books.

55:26And then I started hearing about these clubs because my friends Rob Anderson and Dylan Mulvaney both have clubs. Oh, very cool. And I started seeing that. And then they reached out and they're like, would you like to do a cookbook club? Which I think is so fun because I get those questions all the time. The questions are, where are you eating? What are the pans or equipment you're using? And what are the cookbooks you love? Yeah. So you're curating a list every month. I'm curating a pick each month of like, what is the book that you need on yourself? Very cool. So you sign up. Tell us about the way it works.

56:00You sign up for the club and you get a book every month? You get a book every month. You could also sign up and do a book every quarter. Cool, cool. And let's say like my pick of the month is something you already have. Like you can skip it. Skip it. Yeah. It's very forgiving. Or buy it and gift it. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Especially if it's one that you love. Like what better way? Yeah. And I think it's fun because a lot of these are authors I know. So there are going to be moments where I'm like, great, all the books, we're going to get signed book plates. So everyone's going to get a signed copy.

56:28Or I'll do a Q &A with them where I'll bring them in because there's a kind of digital community aspect to it as well. Oh, wonderful. I was wondering about that. So you sign up for the club, you get the book, but you also get a little bit of Jake stream. Exactly. Where it's like we're posing questions. Like, what are you cooking from this month? Oh, my God, this is the recipe that I love. This is the author. I kind of have an idea of what my next pick will be. And I'm already going to be like, no, no, no, no. You're going to come. We're going to cook together. We're going to do all this stuff.

56:54Well, let's talk about your first pick. It's a great one. Adelingi Comfort. I had Yodam on last fall. We talked about this great cookbook. It's one of my favorites, I think. What made you pick Yodam's book for your first selection? Well, I thought I wanted something that was relatively recent. kind of a tome like something that people people really could like get a ton out of also I'm like madly in love with Yotam both in like a professional and personal way so it was a really easy pick and his team like so many of the people in the OTK in the Odeling Utah's Kitchen I think are such brilliant additions to the world of food media and when I'm thinking about a book I say this all the time in press where it's like the goal when you're writing a cookbook is so many books and i get i mean you probably more than me get every book sent to you every time someone's book and i will say no shade a lot of them are just adding noise yeah like they're just there's not really like unique perspective there's not like nothing um and all i want to do is add to the conversation and have a really unique perspective where people get to like hear my voice see my my vibe when it comes to cooking and they're either going to get it or they won't.

58:10Absolutely agree. And I think that the noise is what we have to break through when we're publishing here at Penguin Random House. We try to pick the books that are adding to the dialogue and discourse. And this book is really tremendous. I call it a tome as well because OTK, it's like the Warhol factory of cookbook making. It's creative, but it's very technical. And I want to hear from you some recipes that drew you to comfort, which is really, I think, again, we did this great interview with Yoda. I'm going to link to it. Comfort can be many different things to many different people. And I think he did a nice job to show how comfort is not just like mac and cheese.

58:50And when he's listening to this, all I'm trying to do is get him to come out with me. So it's like you'll see him at basement next time he's in New York. I think you could get him. I could get anyone to do anything. Don't get the twist. I know he's coming with me. So what are the recipes that you're really linking up with? The one that I really loved, which is something that's so kind of big in my normal rotation, is I love a one-pan pasta. And they have this caramelized onion oricchiette with hazelnuts and sage. And it's an example of how you could take something so simple as a one-pot pasta, but then the little additions of frying crispy sage and reserving that, using that oil to cook it down, the hazelnuts.

59:30everything comes out better. It's still a quite simple process, but you still have that touch of otolenghi fanciness that to me is exactly what I want to see in terms of comfort food that's quick, in addition to the fact that's like one step above the basic. And then there's this other recipe where it's like hummus, by the way, of South France. So it's like a chickpea and fennel puree. Oh, I love that. It's good. And so it's, again, that same touch and something that I love when I'm developing recipes is it's reminiscent of something that's so popular in your Rolodex. And yet it's just right of center.

1:00:12Yeah. Yeah. Because that's the way he thinks about his recipes at OTK. There's always going to be some creative twist on it. Yeah. Or it will be really, really clearly a link to the heritage and it'll be explained in detail. Yeah. Which is why I love that book. it starts May 1, right? May 1st? Yeah. So all May, you can go to, where can we sign up for it? I think it starts now. Again, I'm the brains, not the brains. I'm the brawn. I'm the brawn, not the brains. It starts right now, so you can order it now. I think this is the first pick, and you continue to do it. Also, if you order now, I believe it's discounted, so the first book is like$5.

1:00:54No way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have a deal. Like, let's circle that. So five bucks. Five bucks. That's an incredible opportunity to get this book for$5. Yes. And then, like, the best part is for every new book club subscriber, a book is donated in your name to LGBTQ plus youth in states that are facing book bans. Incredible. Which is such, like, a good mitzvah to, like, add on to the fact that you're getting the best books. And it's all available at alstora.com. Great. I love it because it's going to be both new flashy titles, but also there'll be times where I'm just going to pick one of my favorite classics that a lot of people may have never heard of, but I go to every day.

1:01:37I love that idea that you're going to do new releases, maybe some older books that are classics. That's terrific. Congrats on the book club. This is very cool. That's going to be a lot of fun. Great chatting with you, buddy. Yes.

1:01:53This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.