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Podcast Episode Notes: This Is TASTE - Episode 588: Pujol's Enrique Olvera Has Thoughts About the Tasting Menu
Episode Overview
- Podcast Title: This Is TASTE
- Episode Title: 588: Pujol's Enrique Olvera Has Thoughts About the Tasting Menu
- Hosts: Matt Rodbard and Aliza Abarbanel
- Guest: Enrique Olvera, acclaimed chef behind Pujol in Mexico City and Cosme in New York.
- Additional Guest: Ken Concepcion, from the Los Angeles bookstore Now Serving.
- Release Date: [Insert Date]
Key Themes and Discussions
Enrique Olvera's Culinary Philosophy
- Balancing Time: Olvera discusses his strategies for managing his time between New York City and Mexico City, emphasizing a mix of pre-scheduled trips and spontaneity based on opportunities.
- Favorite Cities: He mentions enjoying different cities during specific seasons, revealing his fondness for New York in spring and autumn, and coastal areas during winter.
Dining Preferences and New York's Evolving Culinary Scene
- Dining Out: Olvera shares some of his go-to spots in New York for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, highlighting places like Café Integral and Milos for seafood.
- Mexican Cuisine Evolution: Olvera reflects on the growth of Mexican restaurants in New York, noting the increase in quality and attention to traditional techniques like nixtamalization. He discusses how cuisines evolve from casual fare to high gastronomy.
Experience at Cosme and Pujol
- Opening Cosme: Olvera recounts his initial vision for Cosme, focusing on simplicity and seasonal ingredients, contrasting with his previous experiences at Pujol.
- Pressure of Quality: He expresses the responsibility he feels to deliver exceptional dining experiences at Pujol, emphasizing the importance of hospitality.
Tasting Menu Evolution
- Format Changes at Pujol: Olvera discusses the evolution of Pujol's menu formats, moving from a la carte to tasting menus, and the decision to simplify offerings post-pandemic to enhance guest experience.
- Regional Menu Innovation: The concept of a rotating menu based on Mexican regions is introduced, allowing for seasonal and regional specialties to shine.
Upcoming Cookbook and Cultural Reflections
- New Cookbook: Olvera talks about his latest book, "Sunny Days, Taco Nights," aimed at home cooks and focusing on tacos as a universal food.
- Cultural Commentary: He touches upon the impact of current political climates on the Mexican community in America, underscoring the importance of community and education about rights.
Ken Concepcion and Now Serving
- Bookstore Background: Ken shares his journey in the culinary world and the establishment of Now Serving, a bookstore in Los Angeles specializing in cookbooks.
- Event Highlights: Discussion on hosting events that create intimate experiences between authors and readers, fostering connections within the culinary community.
- Spring Book Recommendations: Ken highlights notable cookbooks, particularly from African and Central American cuisines, reflecting on the increasing demand for diverse culinary voices.
Key Takeaways
- Culinary Evolution: Olvera illustrates the importance of evolving culinary practices and the integration of cultural heritage into modern dining experiences.
- Community Engagement: Both Olvera and Concepcion emphasize the significance of community in their respective culinary journeys, advocating for inclusivity and cultural pride amidst challenges.
- Book Recommendations: Concepcion's insights into current cookbook trends reveal a growing interest in diverse cuisines, particularly from underrepresented regions.
Closing Remarks
- The episode concludes with the hosts encouraging listeners to explore the culinary offerings in New York and the significance of community spaces like bookstores in fostering culinary dialogue.
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Links and Resources
- Visit [TASTE Online](https://tastecooking.com) for more episodes and content.
- Connect with Ken Concepcion's Now Serving bookstore [here](#).
Listener Engagement
- Listeners are encouraged to provide feedback through reviews on Apple Podcasts or ratings on Spotify.
Production Credits
- Theme Music: Steve Rydell
- Production Team: Clayton Gumbert, Pat Stango, Shalia Harris at Penguin Random House.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. Resi is a digital platform that connects restaurants to restaurant lovers by elevating dining experiences, providing original industry content, and helping to fill some of the country's most exciting dining rooms. Because restaurants have always been more than just places to eat. The amazing world of restaurants is just a few taps away in the Resi app and at resi.com.
0:31The conscious effort we do make is not to overdo it. We don't want to say like, oh, we want three Michelin stars, and then we're going to start doing crazy things just to get that. No, we're very focused on the guest experience. We're very focused on who we are.
0:49This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard.
0:58It was really amazing to have Enrique Olvera in the studio. Olvera is the acclaimed Mexican chef behind Pujol in Mexico City, Cosme in New York, celebrating its 10th year this year, and other acclaimed restaurants around the world. In this episode, Enrique shares his honest thoughts on how a global chef stays fresh, especially in the highly competitive restaurant scenes of New York City and Mexico City. We also talk about the business of restaurants, which is always a hot topic with those running them. Also on the show, we catch up with Ken Concepcion from the terrific Los Angeles bookstore now serving.
1:32We discuss the busy spring season and what types of books Ken is most excited about. I hope you enjoy this episode.
1:45Enrique Oliveira, welcome to This is Taste. How are you? Great, Matt. Thank you for the invitation. this has been a long time coming I'm a huge fan of your work we've known each other for a long time and got to hang out and have some meals we're gonna talk about Cosme's ten years which is remarkable I feel like I've been going there steadily for the for the decade it's been in New York talk about Pujol we'll talk about your cookbook but tell me a little bit about how you as a chef and an operator how do you split your time between New York and Mexico City and then other places? It's hard to keep a balance in terms of the time equation.
2:24So I've done two strategies throughout my life. Some years I've decided I'm not going to fill up the agenda in the early weeks of the year and then serve the waves as they come. And then I realized there were a lot of waves, so I was traveling a lot for short periods of time. And then some other years, what I do is I sit down normally the last week of December and then I assign certain periods to New York, to Los Angeles, to Oaxaca, to Los Cabos, to Nayarit, which are the cities that we have restaurants at. And then leave some spaces in blank. That also normally tends to change. So that's why I go back and forth.
3:14Sometimes I put the time slots and then an invitation comes through in the day that I was in New York. And I can't say no because I really don't have to be in New York. I just put it for myself. But then it ends up being like a mix of the two. So I'm still trying to figure it out. Every year in my notes, I always put a note to myself like travel less, but more days. This would be my goal. More days in the cities. I mean, given this travel and all your businesses, I mean, I'm putting you on the spot, I realize. But is there like a favorite city that you just can't stay away from? I think there's different times for different cities.
3:56So definitely New York, you know, like the spring and the autumn are amazing here. I personally like a lot being in the winter next to the ocean and in the sun. So I tend to be in Nayarit and Los Cabos a lot during those times. And then I think the summer is really nice in L.A. and in Mexico City and in Oaxaca. So that's how I try to organize it in my mind. It's a nice strategy to have those locations in those days. When you're in New York, though, and you're off the clock and you're not in your restaurants, where do you like to dine out? I want to know, and I have some other questions about New York's evolution with modern Mexican.
4:38I know some of the great talent here now, but where do you like to go out? So normally in the mornings, I love to go out for a jog in the river and then have good coffee. I love Integral. I normally stay at the Bowery Hotel. That's the hotel that I like a lot because Atla is just a block away. and then I can hop in the subway also super easy and Cosme is a couple of train stops away. So I tend to go to Café Integral and Lydia in the mornings for coffee and a pastry. And then at lunch I like to do seafood. So I normally go to a Greek restaurant. That would be my go-to. Oh, it's nice. Do you have a favorite?
5:29it? No, I tend to go a lot to Milos just because they know me and I love the lunch there. Try to keep it clean like a salad, some fish, nothing too fancy. I used to go a lot to 15 East 15th. Unfortunately, that is no longer open. I know. But that was also like a really cool lunch pot. Sometimes I eat family meal in Cosme. Sometimes I go to daily provisions and just get a chicken. So those are like my go-to like regular places. And then sometimes I do like longer lunches. I tend to stay in the Cosme area just because I normally have meetings before or after. And then at night, I go a little bit everywhere.
6:22I really like Altro Paradiso. I think it's like solid. So consistent. Yeah. So consistent. Yeah. Ignacio's cooking, yeah. Yeah, and I think he also not only, like, he takes a little bit to start, and then once he's there, he keeps the, I think he keeps the quality super high. And he keeps his menu items consistent, too. He's not flipping it around too much. Yeah. I like that. Great, great tour of New York here. And I want to stay with New York and ask you just about New York's Mexican scene. I swear I had a guest on very recently who said there's no good Mexican food in New York. But for you, you know, having opened a business here 10 years ago and seeing this evolution, either Taqueri Ramirez or places out in Queens or, of course, you know, your restaurant Cosme and Alex Tupac's restaurants.
7:16It's one of the best in the world. Yeah, I guess how he defines good Mexican might be. Truth. an issue, no, because I think, for example, something that happened with a lot of cuisines in New York is they became popular in a casual, everyday level, and then restaurants started to try to execute in a higher gastronomical level, no? This happened, for example, with Italian food, no? And everybody recognizes it. With Korean food, it happened as well, no? There has been, like amazing, like easy, casual Korean restaurants in New York forever. And then a few chefs try to execute that at a higher level in terms of the quality of the ingredients and the precision of the execution.
8:04Not necessarily that you're changing the cuisine. It's just you're trying to execute with the same standards that Michelin French restaurant with obviously keeping certain things from the culture, which I think is the tricky part, no? Because it would be like really out of context to try to do like fancy Mexican cuisine in a French setting. No, it makes really no sense. And because it hasn't been done as much before, I think this is when the trouble starts because then you start carrying or we start carrying as restaurateurs a little bit of our personal baggage. So for example, when we opened Cosme, I was in a very contemporary mindset myself.
8:55So the mindset of Cosme was contemporary, Mexican with local products. Right now, as I have aged and 10 years have passed, I feel myself a little bit more classical, like a little bit less contemporary. But Cosme still has this vibe. But yeah, like you said, the scene has been evolving constantly. You cannot complain about how dynamic the Mexican restaurant scene in New York is. I think it's even more dynamic sometimes than other cities in the U.S. Yes. And I think the quality has also been getting a lot better. Nobody was nixtamalizing or hand-pressing tortillas when we came here. or at least that I knew of.
9:45Now a lot of people do that. Now there's projects like Sobre Masa that nixtamalize. It's kind of like required if you're going to open even a casual Mexican restaurant, either a taqueria or something a little more plated and seeded. You have to talk about your nixtamalization now. And I think also a lot more Mexicans are opening Mexican restaurants, which helps a little bit with the flavor profile, because it's always a little harder for somebody. Like if I tried to do Korean, it would probably be difficult for me. It would take me a while. It's not that it's impossible. It just would take me a little while.
10:24I remember doing a story with you when Cosme was opening a decade ago, and you were showing me the pains you were making with sourcing corn, bringing it from Mexico. And what nixomalization was, I believe you probably introduced the term to me as a writer and I was extremely excited. I remember writing a piece about it. Take me back a decade when you opened Cosme. What were you hoping to do for this really competitive city, a place you just laid out really beautifully how we've evolved as a town with great Mexican food, but at that point, really not much going on in the, I would say the seasonal local angle.
11:02And of course, with your fine dining background, you know, having that kind of arsenal there, what were you hoping for? I think what actually helped us a lot is that we were a little naive. We didn't know what we were getting ourselves into. We didn't think a lot about it. Puyol had been successful for a while. I was a little bit tired of feeling in my comfort zone in Mexico, and I wanted a challenge. So to me, it was a little bit about that. And also coming back to New York because I went to school at the CIA in upstate New York. So New York felt a little close to me. I have really good friends here in the industry.
11:48So I felt like I had a good network. But it really was something that we didn't think a lot of. We just said we want to do something that focuses a lot on the basics. so we don't want to we said like we won't have like all the kinds of glassware for different wines we will have just one glassware that is amazing we will not have a fish knife and a fish fork and like all this ceremony that Puyol was going it was taking that road and we said with Cosme we want to keep things like very simple focus on a place that is fun that is loud both that it's a little bit like New York, that it feels like it has a New York dining scene.
12:38And then use the local products as much as we can and keep our roots through the corn, the beans, and the chili program. Those are the things we're going to bring from Mexico, and then everything else we will try to use from the area. Yeah, and you have the market right there, of course. Talk about your location a little bit, because at the time, a decade ago, We forget most of the Buzzi restaurants are happening in Brooklyn and then downtown a bit. Midtown or Flatiron where you're at, I mean, it seemed like almost like a dead zone. I mean, Gramercy Tavern, of course, legendary space, but that's like a one of one.
13:16So what was it like opening in that area, in that location in New York? Yeah, it took us also like a couple of years to find the space that suited our project. Yeah. It used to be a strip club, so it had this fun little vibe to it. And I guess the two Santiago's, my partners, had lived in New York for a while. Originally, we were looking at Tribeca. We saw a couple of things in Soho. And then when this space in the Flatiron came up, they said, like, it's not as cool, but it's also very centric. Now it's like people can easily get to Cosme from almost everywhere in the city. So larger than we wanted originally.
14:09But also, thank God, we were busy almost from the start. It's incredible because I mean, Cosme ends up being in Soho. Think about how those rents and that neighborhood is just like overcooked. You know, Atla is like kind of East Village, but it's a different format. but it's the perfect location for Cosme. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I always have thought that, no, there's luck, and you have to listen when people are, or something comes up, no? Like, you have to take the opportunity because it's presenting itself. Hi there. It's Matt, co-host of the show. We are currently running a This Is Taste listener survey, and we'd love to hear from you.
14:58Do you have a guest request? A restaurant you wish we'd visit to talk about on three things? What about a lesser-known cookbook author who deserves a spot in our studio chair? You can let us know by clicking the link in our show notes to complete the survey. It will only take a couple minutes, I swear, and will help us continue to make the best show possible. That's the This Is Taste listener survey link in our show notes. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. If you're one of those last-minute shoppers, you might know the feeling. Ideas are running low and the clock is ticking. Here's a fun idea.
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16:49Terms and conditions apply. I always have wanted to ask you about the corn husk meringue because it's truly one of New York's most iconic desserts. I've spoken about on the show a couple times. I love this dessert. It is a must order every time. What's the kind of a brief story about how that is that a puzhol recipe that you kind of brought over or is that like an original costume? Meringues is something that we eat a lot in Mexico as children. There's a couple of pastry shops, El Globo being one of them that used to make this preparation. And you would probably get it on a weekend. And it was just a straightforward meringue.
17:30As you know, Mexico City had a big Austrian and French influence during their occupation. So a lot of pastry shops have these kinds of preparations. And then when we were opening the restaurant, Daniela said we should do one with a corn cream instead of just straight cream. And back then, Jesus Perea, which was the pastry chef from Le Bernardin, we had hired him to do desserts at Cosme. And he came up with the development of the recipe. And then they didn't know how to plate it. So they brought it to me and it's like, okay, let's just break it and put like a, we used to do, no, it's kind of, I always have liked two concentric sauces.
18:22We do that in the Mole Madre. We do that in several dishes. So it was the concentric creams and then just meringue to hold them up together. Yeah, it's a stunning plating presentation. And really, when you dip into the cream, you're taken to Europe. You're taken to the finest pastry shops in America. And you're taken to Mexico in a way that it causes a lot of emotion. It's like this is exquisite cuisine. Yeah, I guess the cornbread is something that translates to different cultures. So I think that's the fun part about it is that it can remind you of a cornbread in the U.S. or a panqué de elote in Mexico or even in Italy.
19:07It's a beautiful dish. I have to ask you, you know, Mexico City, of course, is at the center of the universe with culinary travel. I mean, we've seen such an interest in going to Mexico City as Americans. And I think globally, it's like this like one of the top visited cities in the world. And, you know, Pujol is like at the top of the list always. And I have to ask you, do you feel a little pressure running this like iconic restaurant in one of the most visited cities in the world? and the fact that you noted that you're not there every day, because why would you? Like, what's that feel like to have this restaurant with your name on it be so, like, you know, thousands of photos a day are coming out of this restaurant?
19:52Yeah, it's a little crazy, too, because it took us a while as well to get to that point. Yeah. I mean, obviously, you feel more than pressure. I think responsibility to make sure that when people visit us, it's worth their money and their time. So that's obviously a consideration. We want to provide them with an experience that is not only technically impeccable, but also warm and that you feel like you're in Mexico. I think hospitality is in our bones in Mexico. So we want to make sure that not only you come and you say like, oh, this meal was technically perfect, but you actually feel good. You feel welcome.
20:37You feel at home. You feel that Mexican warmth. So it is something that we talk a lot about during our manager meetings. And we always try to keep the feed on the ground. I think the conscious effort we do make is not to overdo it. We don't want to say, oh, we want three Michelin stars and then we're going to start doing crazy things just to get that. We're very focused on the guest experience. We're very focused on who we are as a restaurant, what we like. We approach it as you would approach anybody coming home. This is the way we approach most of our restaurants, but especially Puyol. We want the experience to be very calm, very welcoming.
21:33The menu structure like that, you have like a few hors d 'oeuvres. Like normally when you invite people, you never come and sit down directly on somebody's dining room. You normally go to the living room, have like a little bit of crudités or whatever you're doing, offer themselves a drink and then you move to the table. and then you cook them what's in season, you know, and the best that you can. So this is the dynamic in Puyol and then you play the music that you like, you know, and you make sure that the soap in the bathroom is amazing. Yeah. And you're always smiling and you're always like trying to be a little bit ahead of the curve, you know, and try to anticipate the guest needs as much as you can.
22:22Is it a formatted tasting only? It is. And it's like one option and you're in the hands of your chef? Throughout time, we have changed different formats as well. When we opened, we were a la carte and tasting. Then I think maybe in 2007 or 2008, we moved to tasting only but with certain options. then we moved when we moved to the new location we had two separate menus back then I started to be a lot more concerned about health and how food makes you feel I think it's something that happens to us as we grow a little bit older you start realizing like long tasting menus with a lot of different proteins makes you feel really tired No, and you don't, it's not that you don't appreciate the technical part of it.
23:20You just can't get through it. Yeah. I mean, if you get to a certain age or even in any age, you just can't get through it. You're like, oh man. Yeah, it's not pleasurable after a while. Especially because of the mix of the proteins. And then I remember I spoke to an anthropologist and he told me like, Like imagine somebody like 500 years ago eating at the same time fish, rabbit, foie gras, meat. This didn't happen. The body's not used to that. Like if you had fish, you would eat a lot of fish. A lot of it, you can eat a lot, but only fish or only seafood. So in 2016, we moved to a seafood menu and a corn menu.
24:04And we stopped using meat because of sustainability. The rhythm that we have in Puyol is very high. We normally do like 250 covers every day. Business is good, Enrique. Business is good. Amazing. That's amazing. So imagine how many cows we would have to... You can't be roasting shanks for like 250 covers. I mean, you'd have to expand your space and it keeps it more efficient. But also, I think we've written on Taste about just a general exhaustion for like the 25 course tasting menu. And many, I think in New York at least, have recalibrated. So it's like prefix now. You've seen that more. And now we're moving again.
24:53Oh, yeah? Well, after the pandemic, we stopped the corn and sea. Yeah. And we just did one. because we were all, I think everyone after the pandemic or during the pandemic, we're trying to keep things as simple as possible. Yeah. And now we feel a little bit more comfortable and we're moving to, I call it like a little time wheel, which is amazing. We're doing two things, which is regional. We divided Mexico into six different regions. and then we are doing seasonal regional and changing every four months. That's exciting. That must be great for you. Yeah, and then you come back to it, which I think is what I really disliked about the lineal proposition of cooking.
25:46You do a dish, it stays during the season and then you forget about it. And there's some dishes that when I go through the books sometimes of Puyolico like, oh, that dish was amazing. Like I remember specifically a dish that we said, it was like all the white things that grow under the earth. So it was like parsnips, leeks, and ant eggs. Wow, incredible. And it was cooked like all of them were cooked in bone marrow, and they were like presented like bone marrow. And it was amazing. There's a dish that, and then we stopped doing it because the Ant Egg season finished and the next year we were doing something else with Ant Eggs.
26:32And it's such a pity. Play the hits, Enrique. That's what you got to do. Like, it's smart because if guests like these dishes, you should bring them back. Yeah. It's a lot of pressure, too, to have to write a new menu every season. And I guess also, like I was saying, when I was young, no, I was like trying to create all the time. Yeah. Now I feel very comfortable. No, like going, like, yes, we still want to create. No, I was speaking to Gustavo, to the chef in Cosme yesterday. And I was telling him, like, don't feel the pressure to create, because then it'll be very difficult. Like, if you need to put a dish that was on last year's menu, do it while you think of the new dish.
27:10And then if something comes up, also do it. Yeah, that's a great way. Yeah, Virginia strikes, put it on the menu. I want to talk a little bit about your new book, Sunny Days, Taco Nights. Great title. Great title. What did you want? You've written nine books. What more did you have to say with this book? I guess also it's what we try to do with each book is have a different approach. We have had some Puyol books. The first one was about the 10 years. Then we had Mexico from the Inside Out, which was our first book with Faidon, which was a lot about Puyol, a little bit about Cosme. then we did to Casa Mi Casa which was like more for the home cook and then with as tacos have become universal and more popular we're seeing that people are starting to cook tacos at home.
28:04Most of the taco books that I've seen tend to be more documentary. So there was like these are the different tacos like Tacopedia or other so many tacos. Tacos by Alex Stupak, that's a good one too. That's an amazing book. I think probably the first one in English, no? Yeah, it was like 2016 he published that here at Clips and Potter. Yeah, I remember the cover, no, with the tortilla. I think Alex was ahead of his time. No, he's, I remember the first time I ate in Empeyon, I think he was plating John George food on tortillas. And I thought it was so cool. No, it's like, because he was making the point that, like, if you put in a tortilla, it should be cheaper.
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28:55But I think people maybe didn't understand that message at that time. He's still ahead of his time. Yeah. That guy. Yeah. He really should check out his new spots. The otter, it's quite good. Yeah. I should go. I haven't seen him in a while. Yeah. We went together to have such a fun trip. I bet. Yeah. Hopefully someone was writing. Were you with any journalists? Or was it just that research? No, it was him and Rocio from Sanchez in Copenhagen. And then Alex Reese from Oaxaca. We had a super fun time. It was for Pujol's 10th anniversary. It's going to be 25 years this May. So it's crazy. Oh, you're celebrating 25 at Pujol?
29:40I didn't know that that was the lineage. Wow. Yeah. 10 and 25, very linear right now. A big year for you right now. Yeah. Getting older, man. Hey, you know what? You're looking better. I'm going to start applying to the Legacy. The Legacy Awards? You'll be in the Senior Tour? I know. I like the Senior Tour. It's a little bit more classy. It's good. I mean, you've won every award and you've been on all the lists and it's nice to have a mindset where you can become a classic chef and not put that pressure on yourself. It's a nice place to be. Yeah, it truly is. I'm very grateful. I'm going to go off script here.
30:16Please take a pass on this question. But I want to ask you this. In talking about Mexico right now, you know, in our country in America, there's a great political turmoil around immigration. And, you know, Mexico has really felt the brunt of this of negativity and legislation. And I have to ask you, Enrique, as a Mexican and working in New York and being aware of our political situation, generally, what would you say to Mexicans living in America who are currently under great pressure from the government? Yeah. No, it's, uh, it's exhausting. No, I think, uh, fear is something that, uh, is really hard to live with and brings a lot of anxiety.
31:09Um, I know a lot of people are nervous, no, and, and it's hard because it doesn't seem that it's not going to be like a short period of time. I think this is the problem with this kind of mentality is that it sticks. Um, so we'll see how things, uh, evolve, uh, Fortunately enough, I think also Mexico has been recognized over the past few decades as a cultural powerhouse, not only for the food, but for movies. So I think there's also a lot more pride that there used to be about being Mexican before, and hopefully that helps us get through this period. I think it's important for us to stay focused.
32:00It's a little bit out of our control, no? And just make sure that we stay. Also, I think the best way to get through this is to try to anchor yourself to the community. Because sometimes I see some people being isolated, staying home because of the fear of going out, no? And isolation is, I think, very dangerous. Yeah, you have to have community. But with that said, it can be more challenging with a constant threat. I mean, when you speak with the staff members in New York, Atla and Kalsme, who may be under pressure, what do you say to them? I've asked this question to other chefs working in New York.
32:46It's a constant dialogue and discourse. And it's a big part of the restaurant industry right now. Yeah, I think, I mean, we're trying to do everything that we can to make sure that they feel as safe as possible. Our HR team has also told them their rights. It's important that they know what they can do, what people can ask them to do. So I think this is the only thing we can do right now. And they're always welcomed in Mexico too. This is also something that it's super important that they know. They can always come back. Mexico is an amazing country. There's opportunity. There's great businesses.
33:36A lot of Americans have moved to Mexico during the pandemic. So, I mean, it's a beautiful country. So it wouldn't be that bad to move back to Mexico. Yeah. Yeah, and your sentiment about having a real clear structure with your HR team and, you know, educating about rights is such an important facet. And you hear about other chefs, you know, of a Mexican background and not, and just educating staff. It's tough out there. Yeah. From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, an exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal.
34:17A Restaurant Story, the 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist. Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-starred talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus. The full program is available at MontrealOnLumiere.com, presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox.
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36:17Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Enrique, and this is Taste. We ask guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? Let's do it. Can I answer in Spanish? You can answer in Spanish if you'd like. We have some Spanish guests and we don't do translation, but we could do some of that. So the best fruit. The best fruit is the one that's in season.
36:56Fair chef, fair chef. Peach. Okay. Peach in season is your guy. Okay. The worst vegetable. The worst vegetable, radishes. What kind? Like English or daikon? The black ones. I love how they look, but they're very tough. They're tough to cook with, yeah. I like them just with lime. Very nice. What is your typical breakfast? Yogurt with honey and some pecans. What kind of yogurt are you, it's a big choice here. There's lots of yogurts in our world. I normally have Greek yogurt in Mexico from a farm called Cuatro Encinos. Oh, you have your spot. That's good. I love that yogurt. The best dessert? The best dessert is ice cream.
37:44Also, I like nut ice cream. So it can be like hazelnut or pistachio or pecan or coffee. Coffee. And would you describe Mexico as having a big ice cream scene? There's raspados and then there's more sorbet like nieves and ice creams themselves. Mexico is not a big dairy country. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead? Lutes. Lutes. Wow. Good one. I love Lutes. Talk about it a little bit. So classic. And also perfect. It was like being in a movie. I miss those places. Speaking that, there's not many left in the world anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And when you were at the CIA as a student, did you get to go come down and visit Lutaz?
38:35Yeah. And I remember I came when I was doing the dining room cooking segment of the program. So we're doing the get it done. I was just going there and seeing... The carts. Yeah. People cook in the dining room. I think it's amazing. Yeah. Do you play around with that at any of your restaurants? I like the philosophy. I remember when I was in class, the instructor told us, no, that you have to cook very gently in the dining room because you didn't want like the big, no, splash of oil or the smoke. So he taught us how to sear fish without using very strong heat. And I always liked that. And I cooked that at home.
39:20Obviously in restaurants, you can't. No. Because you have to go more fast. Yeah. But I tend to cook like that a lot when I'm home, like very slow. Yeah. You know, you don't need to crank it up. I mean, it's fun as a home cook, obviously to go full flame. Yeah. But, but I think it's more gentle, less violent. That's a very well, well said. Good tip. When you're craving fast food in America, where do you go? Uh, in and out. Yeah. What's your order? Uh, just animal style. Yeah. Yeah. Do you hit it up when you're in LA once in a while? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's like one of the few places that I go to when I'm in LA often.
40:00You mentioned Bowery Hotel in New York. Where do you stay in LA? I normally stay close to the ocean at the proper in Santa Monica. I like running a lot and jogging, so it's nice to run next to the ocean. It feels like a little bit of a vacation. If I stay like a little bit more in the city, I feel like I'm in another city. and there it feels like a little bit of a vacation. Are you running races at all? Are you training? Yeah, I did the marathon in Lisbon last year and doing the half marathon next Sunday in Zurich. Oh, wow, cool. Oh, so you do train. I took a hunch on that one. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow.
40:37What was the marathon like for you? I mean, those are no joke. It was harsh. It was like, it's not two half marathons. It's like eight of them. Yeah. Like I think once you go past 30, your body starts to take a, you can feel like it's crazy because you can feel how you're like literally eating yourself. Yeah. Speaking of eating, when you're done with the marathon in Lisbon, great food city, of course, what were you, what was on your menu? That's how we choose them. No, it's, it needs to be a city that you can eat after. Yeah. And I also like small cities. So, no, this is why it's like Zurich. Or thinking, they told me the Hawaii one was amazing.
41:21Yeah. Marathon. Kyoto is also like a city. Kyoto. So, yeah, places that are beautiful, small, and that you can eat a great meal. San Sebastian would be another. Oh, that would be beautiful. When you're running, just training runs, are you listening to music, podcasts? Are you just letting your mind wander? If I'm in nature, I try not to. if I'm running in a city I definitely have my headphones on yeah music yeah music yeah I have two or three different playlists one of them like very calm more classical music yeah and then I have one like like hits from the 80s in both Spanish and English oh yeah so I I try not to I run because it disconnects my brain yeah so I I'm not like I don't like the workout songs like very strong because I actually use it to get calm.
42:14It's a way to start your morning, start your day in a calm spot. I agree. That's a great way. Your favorite city outside of Mexico and America to visit for food? San Sebastian, one of them.
42:30Probably, yeah, Tokyo. Tokyo, yeah. Yeah. It's easy. I mean, those two are high up for everyone. For a reason. uh i'll tell you i've been going uh a lot to zurich lately because i'm uh dating someone there and and zurich's a great city to eat as well there's this place called camper that i love going to i i miss every time i i go back i go all the time have you been approached to open in japan uh a couple of times uh but i think japan is something that you need to take super serious and I would do either, if I'm not able to move there for a while, I would probably do something more casual. And I think the only way to do something upscale is if you have the time to be there at least for a year.
43:19You could see Outlaw working in Tokyo. I could see that working. Yeah, something like a little casual. If you can't be there all the time. Yeah. My kids are getting older, so maybe in a couple of years I have free time and then I'll do... I don't know if like a permanent thing, but maybe just like a year. I would love to live in Japan for a year. Yeah. I would love to. And they'd probably love to have you there too. Yeah, hopefully. Last one, your favorite sandwich. My favorite sandwich is just cheese sandwich. Just like really good butter, sourdough bread, a nice Comte cheese. Comte, yeah. And then just like press it.
44:00I like to put a heavy weight on it. make it thin are you adding heat? yeah yeah of course toast okay toast it it has to be you're pressing it down toasting it yeah yeah yeah the press sandwich and then serve with cornichons beautiful yeah only butter no acid no acid no I love this choice with comp de yeah that sounds that's a that's a very European sandwich yeah I love that I love that Enrico Alvaro thank you so much for joining us muchas gracias
44:34Ken Concepcion, thank you so much for joining us at Taste. How are you doing? Hey, Matt. I'm great. Thanks for having me. Well, I've wanted to have you on for a very long time. We've featured you on Taste and did a great interview several years ago. But we haven't had you in the podcast. Now Serving is your store that you run with Michelle. And it's so important to our industry. So many of our authors that we feature on the show stop by for terrific events. I've done events at your store in LA. It's truly remarkable. I love your store. Tell us a little bit about how you got started with Now Serving.
45:12Oh, thanks. Thanks for all the kind words about the shop. So we opened the shop in 2017. So we've been around, we're in our eighth year right now. And, you know, a cookbook store was really one of the things that was one of the reasons why I was inspired to get into cooking. One of my first jobs out of college was actually working at a bookstore. And I was just obsessed with cookbooks. and that really parlayed into my interest into working in the restaurant industry. I wanted to go to cooking school, but I just got out of college, so I didn't have any funds to do that. So I just started working in restaurants.
46:08And cookbooks were kind of the way for me to learn while I was working in restaurants there. Well, Ken, it's clear that your deep culinary background as a chef working for over a decade in the industry makes now serving so special because you speak directly to the chef community in L.A. who are seeking out cookbooks, as many chefs do. But, of course, there's a much broader audience of people who just love cookbooks. And I love that you have both audiences really attracted to now serving. Tell us a little bit about your culinary background, like where you worked as a chef and what that was like and how you decided to leave the chef world and then start now serving.
46:54Absolutely. I started working in restaurants in the late 90s in St. Louis. And I'm originally from New York and New Jersey, but I went to school out in St. Louis. And after school, I really figured out that I wanted to try working in restaurants and work with food. And so, you know, cookbooks were a big part of that. And, you know, I'd come home from service. I'd read books until the early hours of the morning and then go back to the restaurant. And with working in restaurants, I'd worked professionally as a chef for almost 19 years. And 12 of those, I worked for Wolfgang Puck here in Los Angeles.
47:53I got a job offer in St. Louis to work for Wolfgang to help open his fancy steakhouse which I lovingly called the fancy steakhouse called Cut in Beverly Hills in 2006 and I really thought I was going to be out here in LA for maybe a few years and that's when I met Michelle you know working in restaurants really yes it really informs the shop but it also you know what Michelle kind of adds to it is you know I remember when we first started thinking about who our audience was I was like well if we just get the chefs and industry and the professionals then we should be okay. But it turns out that obviously everyone loves food and the home cooks, the home bakers, the cookbook lovers themselves, it was really heartening to see everyone kind of turn out.
49:01And this was, of course, coincided with the social media, Instagram, food Instagram boom of the 2010. So that was really what kind of launched us. What a great time to open a cookbook store, just with the added intensity and interest in cookbooks and the food world as a whole. You've survived the pandemic, and we can talk a little bit about that later. But in 2017, when you're opening, let me ask you, how did you find this truly unique space in Chinatown? I guess you could call it Chinatown, I guess, but it's in a plaza that has so many other great businesses, and it's such an iconic space now.
49:49Oh, thanks. You know, it's funny. Michelle and I, we looked at a few other spaces when we were thinking about opening Now Serving, and at the time, I was still working as a chef, And, you know, I'm still I was close and still very close to a lot of chefs in the industry here in the community. And there's something about Chinatown that really kind of was kind of luring us in. We had a number of chefs who had just opened businesses in Chinatown. um like it was the Valencia brothers from Lhasa and Alvin Kailan um you know Roy Choi you know he had opened Chago in Chinatown at that point which was really kind of put Chinatown on the map as far as like not necessarily a new culinary destination but some a neighborhood to kind of really look at and you know it's so central it's you know it's a stone throw from dodger stadium it's right outside of downtown so uh yeah and you know growing up in new york i'd always uh my parents would always take us to down to chinatown to mott street every weekend so you know chinatown has always been kind of like familiar and comfortable but also kind of uh you know, an enigmatic place.
51:26So it felt kind of cool to do that. Absolutely. I mean, great timing for that, for that, for that location. Of course, the pandemic comes in and a lot of the energy just gets sapped away and nothing you could avoid. But how did you survive the pandemic? I mean, it's amazing that you're that you were able to do that. And I remember you did so many virtual events and you became known as hosting some of the best conversations during the pandemic. And that's when I got to know you really well in 2020, 2021. So it was, it seemed to work out well. Yeah, no, uh, I really appreciate that as far as the, you know, the virtual events.
52:05Um, so in, in, uh, when everything kind of shut down here in LA, March 16th, 2020, um, We actually didn't really have a robust online e-comm site, so really because we didn't really have the space to do online fulfillment or shipping. But of course, with everything shut down, we pushed everything online, including our events. and we really kind of stripped it down to the bar tax and looked at what people could do and what people were interested in. And the best thing for me about the virtual events was we would have the people from Dishoom talking to Evan Kleinman here to someone in Italy talking to another great Italian chef here in Philadelphia.
53:12So it was really a great way to make the world a little bit smaller when it was such a challenging time. And we actually were online only for about a year and a half, and that really kind of pushed us to the next level. And, you know, we're very, very fortunate for that. Yeah. And you've continued that spirit. And it leads to my next question. You have now a tremendous lineup of events within the store. And it's a really cozy store. I mean, it has, you really pack a punch for the square footage you have there. And it's just so well designed and so many great titles. And we'll talk about many. But I want to know, like, the events that you host there.
53:58I mean, you're coming off this busy spring season. And what's it like at a now serving event? You know, it's funny. I always joke that we definitely need a bigger boat. It's 500 square feet to kind of play with in the shop. But as far as the events, we really kind of focused on, we do a lot of things, but in In this shop, we focused on an author conversation with a moderator that we also curate as thoughtfully as we can to match with the author and the subject matter of the book.
54:45Incredibly, we can pack 40 people into the shop and it feels like a house party in the best way. and you know after that I always kind of liken it to seeing an event in the shop it's kind of like seeing a show at the Troubadour and it's really just an intimate setting where you wouldn't necessarily you know be talking to Ben Shruri from Attica 15 feet away from you so we feel it's pretty special absolutely and it feels like a basement party for sure i love that vibe about it uh well let's talk about some spring books i think you you have a great sense of what's what's good and what's selling and we're going to link to now serving links in the show notes where you can buy books at the shop and i highly recommend that we love indie booksellers and we try to bring voices on as much as we can on the show uh i mean it's a broad question but like this spring season so much happening what are you drawn to title wise what are some titles that that really are jumping out for you editorially anything that's like it really been selling well i'm curious about that sure um i mean this season this spring season is has been really kind of impressing us as far as the scope and the breadth of everything that's coming out there's been some great african books like Eric Agypong's Gone Into the World, which is one of my favorite books this year.
56:25Chop Chop, which is a Nigerian book. And then that kind of goes into, like there's a great Caribbean book called Kin by Marie Mitchell, which we really like. And then titles that are sticking out to me right now, There's Coastal, which is from the chef Scott Clark of Dad's Luncheonette. And also Calvin Ang of Bonnie's in Brooklyn. Salt Sugar MSG has been – honestly, we can't really keep that in the shop. It's really moving with our community here. This is some great recommendations. We've had several of those authors on our show, And I love that you mentioned African cookbooks because I asked him at Sartwell probably five years ago, what are you looking for?
57:19And I think he said, you know, African cookbooks. And the industry has responded in the best way in publishing these works. And Kin sounds – I haven't picked up Kin yet, but tremendous author there and a groundbreaking work. Let me ask you about what you wish were more cookbooks topic-wise or otherwise. I mean, you're at the tip of the spear with cookbook trends and I'd love to get a sense of what you're into right now. Yeah, you know, it's funny. We kind of look at what is coming out and trying to assess, you know, where publishers are kind of coming from and what authors are being featured. There's definitely a ton of stuff out that we have to do our homework with as far as whether it's the creators or influencers who are being published or smaller authors that we need to do our due diligence and really look into what they're trying to convey in their work.
58:25But for us here, specifically at Now Serving, I would say once or twice a week, we have people coming in looking for books that represent the breadth and scope of Central and Latin America, specifically Guatemala, Ecuador, more Peruvian books. Brazilian books. I know there's one coming on the way probably in a year or two from Biden that we're excited about. It would be great to see more representation from that part of the world. And also, Cambodian and Lao books would be fantastic to see more of that as well. Great thoughts, Ken. I appreciate that. And I think we have folks in the industry listening and hope to publish all those titles here at Penguin Random House and throughout the industry.
59:36I want to talk about the collab you have with Suzanne Gowan. I mean, we did this great event with Korea World last year and you were there selling books. And it was such a great collaboration because you're there and Suzanne's hosting us at the restaurant. We're doing a collaborative menu. I love that series. Are you planning any of those in the future? Right now, we are kind of assessing what that collab is going to look like in the future. But I want to say that the two years that we've been doing it with Suzanne and Caroline Stein and their amazing team at Caldo Verde at the proper here in downtown Los Angeles, it's been amazing just because you get to see the book come to life.
1:00:25uh, in other people's hands. And it's really gratifying to see authors like you and, and Dookie kind of see the food and the work that you guys put into the book, you know, really kind of actually like show up on the plate and get, you know, get delivered to the guests and, and see how gratifying that is. What a fun restaurant, Caldo Verde and the rooftop there too, the proper, I really loved my time there. And it's, it's true. You would get to meet a bunch of authors who are actually on the line working and cooking with Suzanne and her staff. It was a special moment. Yeah, it's such a cool collab, and I hope we get to do more of it.
1:01:07Well, you also sell periodicals, magazines, indie publications, in addition to cookbooks. What's interesting you in that world right now? What's on the shelf? Oh, yeah. So One Wall at the Shop is dedicated to our magazine. rack, which I always kind of think of as like in a record store, in like a 90s indie record store, it would be where you would see like featured albums. And for us, it's magazines and food publications from around the world. Right now, there's an independent magazine called Synonym that we're huge fans of. and we're disclosure we're friends with you know the team behind that but Synonym is great there's two issues out right now and the second issue is called Rice and Beans and it really kind of looks into the culture and into the food ways of some of the most kind of common foods that you know we're all familiar with but really kind of taking a deep dive into what goes behind it.
1:02:27Love that. I need to pick that up. I wasn't familiar with Synonym. I will definitely check that out. It's great. Yes, terrific. Terrific. Yeah, I love indie publishing. It's so exciting. And when you curate such a great wall, it's just like an added bonus to come into your shop and have all the great cookbooks, but then have these indie presses there too. Yeah, it's very throwback. You're a huge music fan and you have great taste in music. And I think I've been lucky to travel to so many culinary bookstores around the country and world. And yours is the most punk, Ken. It's the most punk, to use an embarrassing term.
1:03:04But I feel like you have that ethic of a record store more than anyone. I appreciate that. But, you know, a friend once said that we were just trying to be the other music of bookstores. And, you know, as an old head, I really appreciated that comment. And, you know, to be honest, at least a couple of times a week in the shop, I have to remember that I need to turn the music down and that it's a bookstore. so man i think blasting music at a bookstore is the best best way to do it i always when we do live events at risoli i'm always like let's turn up the music guys before we hit the stage i'm like this is an event bookstores are are like record stores i'm with you i'd be doing the same ken it's been a real pleasure speaking with you your shop is now serving if you are visiting la or live there.
1:04:04You got to stop by. Thank you so much, Matt. It's been an honor to be on the pod.
1:04:14This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.
From the publisher
It was really amazing to have Enrique Olvera in the studio. Olvera is the acclaimed Mexican chef behind Pujol in Mexico City, Cosme in New York (celebrating its 10th anniversary), and other acclaimed restaurants around the world. In this episode, Enrique shares his honest thoughts on how a global chef stays fresh, especially in the highly competitive restaurant scenes of New York and Mexico City. We also talk about the business of restaurants, which is always a hot topic with those running them.
Also on the show, we catch up with Ken Concepcion, from the terrific Los Angeles bookstore Now Serving. We discuss the busy spring season and what types of books Ken is most excited about.
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