590: From Top Chef to Kwéyòl / Creole with Nina Compton

25:04But there's kind of multiple definitions. How do you kind of define those and break it up in the book? Well, it's really about showcasing the people as they migrated through the world and where they settled and how they left their imprint. And most of that was through food. So when you talk about gumbo, that came from Africa and ended up in New Orleans. And they basically, it was something that was basically modified in New Orleans. And it became very New Orleans where Africa's gumbo is very different. But when you see those things to the islands, a lot of things like the curry, curry came through the Caribbean, through people from India and, you know, that came and they brought their own spices and they settled there.

25:49So everything is speckled, you know, from the ancestors that came and left those things. So it's really a beautiful celebration of the dishes that survived so much time and we enjoy it and we keep it. We don't modify it. So somebody asked me yesterday, did I change any of the classic recipes? And I said no, because that is something that has been around for generations. I would not want to put a twist on ackee and saltfish or green fig and saltfish. It's good as it is. And I'm not going to touch it. And I want to be respectful about that. Yeah, I think this book is interesting because it is kind of like a historical artifact in some ways.

26:30You have these very traditional recipes. But then you're also doing things like catfish, which is not a fish that I think is very common in Jamaica. But that was something that was developed moving to New Orleans where catfish is just bountiful. And I said this could be a great application of putting the jerk on there. But I think the most satisfying thing about the book is also documenting our cuisine and our culture, but also seeing people that are not from the Caribbean try these recipes and get so excited. and that is the happiest thing for me because I'm getting people sending me messages of I made the breadfruit pie and they'll send me a picture and I'm like it looks perfect and that for me is the proudest moment because I'm like I did the recipes right because I don't like to write recipes I am uh by touch feel you know measurements are not really my thing but doing the book was that was definitely a huge learning curve for me because everything had to be measured because it had to be replicated by somebody else.

27:32Right. And someone who maybe hasn't made it before and doesn't know what it's supposed to look like. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about how you approach the recipe development for this book. Did you do it in sections or how did you kind of also find the time? You have three restaurants that you run. Well, I have a good team. Yeah. And we would test the recipes out. And then if it was really good, it'd be family meal. And some of the staff were really excited about, oh, this is going to be in the book. So a lot of the things are either developed through my journey. Some of those recipes are pulled from memory as a child.

28:07Things like my mom's soursop mousse, I replicated and I tried and tweaked and got it. My sister's cassava cookies. I'm like, hey, you made these for me. They were really good. Do you have a recipe? She's like, I just kind of eyeballed it. So a lot of those things were tweaked. And it was also fun having some of my staff do that because the things that I grew up with, like breadfruit and dasheen, they have never cooked before. So they were like really excited about how to cook these things and treat them. That makes a lot of sense. And also like talking about the way that a lot of these recipes are shared traditionally in an oral tradition or even the fact that you are cooking by feel.

28:45Yeah. How did you try to, you know, write everything down and get the measurements right? Well, it would be cut an onion, put it in a cup. The hard way. Yeah. You know, it's very hard. I think a lot of people think cookbooks are very easy to do, and they're not. It's a lot of work, and you've got to make sure every recipe makes sense, and it can translate to the home cook. I mean, a recipe like the curried goat is a very lengthy recipe, but I wasn't going to take any shortcuts because I wanted people to make their own curry spice and understand it's just not turmeric in a bag. It's a lot of things are in there as well.

29:25So having an appreciation for making curry goat is it's a huge undertaking, but it's worth it. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things to order when I go to a Caribbean restaurant, but I've never made it myself. And when I sat down and looked at the recipe, It made me like have so much more gratitude for the people who make it that I get to eat it from. It's really special. Curry is my comfort food. And, you know, when I go to a Caribbean restaurant and I smell those things, it just brings me so much happiness. Yeah. When you go to a Caribbean restaurant, like what are you smelling or tasting or looking for that makes you feel like, you know, it's going to be a good meal?

30:01Well, definitely if they're cooking curry, you can smell all of those spices. I definitely get curried goat, curried cheese, whatever kind of curry they have, I get that. Or oxtail, rice and peas, plantain in any form, whether it's fried, boiled, that as well. Yeah. Is definitely my happy point. Are you a patties person? I am. What's your favorite patty? It's beef. Yeah. Beef is just classic. You can't go wrong with it. I like a good beef patty, but my favorite local Jamaican place does a vegan lentil patty. That's a good one. It's spiced so perfectly. The lentils are like the perfect texture.

30:40It's my like favorite thing to order there by far. So you put cocoa bread or no cocoa bread? I do get the cocoa bread, but it's kind of a lot. It's a lot. To eat it like as the proper sandwich. So I feel like I get the cocoa bread. I eat maybe like a third of the patty in the sandwich. And then I just use the cocoa bread to like soak up the oxtail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good move. I went to a friend of mine, Paul Carmichael, that has Bar Caboar. Yeah. And he has all of the patties and they are just a work of art. I've been really wanting to go to the restaurant. It's a beautiful... I've been there.

31:17This is my second time going. And it's going to be my second trip for the year. And it just opened also. Yeah. But I went last night and I had all the patties. And he has sauce that I told him, I said, I'm not really a sauce person, but this sauce is everything. So he's really taking dishes that are a little obscure and a lot of people that don't know Caribbean food. Like sauce is not normally on a menu. Yeah, I don't think I know what it is. Can you tell me? It's basically like pickled pork. And he does it beautifully with blood sausage and sliced cucumbers and parsley and lemon juice. And then he basically cooks the pig's head until it's tender and then you chop that up.

32:05So it's kind of like a room temperature chilled salad, if you will. But it's just a lot of flavors going around. It's beautiful. Okay, so I'll order that. I'll get all the patties. Is there anything else you think I shouldn't skip there? The okra is pretty good. And then he has the Salamon Gundy, which is a smoked fish dip with cassava chips that are perfect. That sounds really good. Yeah, he's super talented. I'm really happy to see him really elevate and not elevate, but really bring Caribbean food to this forefront in this beautiful, just beautiful food. Yeah, I think it's one of the restaurants that I've been wanting to go to the most.

32:44So the fact that it has the Nina Compton sign-off. Yeah, yeah. It has like a triple sign-off on it. Absolutely. Hi there. It's Matt, co-host of the show. We are currently running a This Is Taste listener survey, and we'd love to hear from you. Do you have a guest request? A restaurant you wish we'd visit to talk about on Three Things? What about a lesser-known cookbook author who deserves a spot in our studio chair? You can let us know by clicking the link in our show notes to complete the survey. It will only take a couple minutes, I swear, and will help us continue to make the best show possible.

33:20That's the This Is Taste listener survey, link in our show notes. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts. There's big talk about cooking simplicity, but you're usually left with disappointment after smashing that promo code. Now, Clayton, have you ever tried one of those subscription boxes? Yeah, Matt, my friend gave me a code for that one that has all the chopped vegetables in little baggies. I felt like a drug dealer trying to cook dinner. Yeah, man, I have so been there. ButcherBox is a true exception.

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34:37As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free protein in every box for a year plus$20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. I want to talk a little bit more about the recipes in this book. So the Create Go is one of the project recipes. If someone is listening who's, you know, buying a copy, picking it up, are there any recipes you would recommend that they kind of start with? I mean, there's a couple.

35:16I think having like the hush puppies is an easy one, especially if you have kids. They're fun. I think getting the kids involved in the kitchen is also just a good thing to have, exposing them to something different. I think something easy like the coconut rice and peas is a good one. the jerk chicken, just making the jerk sauce, it lasts forever in your fridge or your freezer. And you could put that on fish, chicken, pork. It's just a good staple to have. So I think you can just start with anything. Just build it up. You know, don't start with the curry good off the bat. Just work your way into it.

35:55Yeah. I'm curious from the developing side, when you were working on the book, was there a recipe that took the longest to perfect? um it was actually the black cake because again i don't measure anything i'm not a baker so i had modified because i think that they wanted it in cups and i had it in grams or some whatever it was some something didn't get transferred properly to the right measurements and it was actually when we were doing the food photography and I told the food stylist, I'm like, oh yeah, this recipe is, I've made a thousand times. It'll be just fine. And we were baking the cake at Babs and the food stylist calls me up.

36:42He's like, it's not, it's like a soup. And I'm like, what? And I'm like, there's no way. I'm like, I've made this recipe. And we were shooting at my house. So I came down to the restaurant and I'm like, that's just so weird. And then I looked at the measurements um and i'm like oh the flour is off so thankfully we fixed it so but that was definitely anything with the baking that was i think the trickiest recipes for me i feel like that's always how it goes yeah i didn't know that you were shooting at your house yeah what was the whole like book photography process like because you have not only beautiful recipe photos but also like photos from all of the places in the book yeah so we we had casimo harris do the lifestyle photography so we did miami um jamaica new orleans andst lucia so he had never been to lucia as well and he was just in heaven seeing the beautiful plants and everything so i think when people come to a tropical island for the first time they're just you know it's like you you grew up like this?

37:46Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's just like, this is, this is crazy. He's like, everything is so vibrant and so green and so lush. And, um, took it, taking him to the market, taking pictures of all the produce and the vendors and the fishermen. So we had a really good time shooting that. And I said, I'm just going to shoot at my house because we have a, you know, a lot of space and I'm like, we'll just have the restaurant bring every day. we do 10 recipes and they would bring all the mise en place and we do some of the stuff at the house or we cook it at babs which is down the street and i remember when the stylist was bringing the prop stylist was she's like i'm gonna bring all the the plates and everything to the house i'm like yeah and she had this trailer attached to her car and i said audrey this is this is everything and she's like yeah there's also stuff in my car and we had thousands of forks and knives and plates and so many things and napkins and I'm like how do you pack all of this and she had it everything was on her laptop by item number everything was labeled she was so organized but it was just great seeing her get excited about oh we're gonna shoot with this I have the perfect pan for this and this fork and this linen and this plant.

39:13It was just very thoughtful styling. And it just made the book so much more vibrant, which I wanted. I wanted the book to scream Caribbean and be not flat. I want people to be like, I really want to make that recipe. Or when they open the book or they look at the book, they want, they can't get their hands off it. And I think that's something I wanted to make sure that was carried through from front to back. Yeah, I really think I had that experience. And, you know, I don't even have the physical copy. So I was just looking on my laptop, which is not normally how books shine. But between the photos and the recipes and also the illustrations that you have throughout.

39:53My sister did those. Really? My sister did those. So she's such a creative. And we were talking and she's like, oh, I could do the chapter openers. and she did the map and she did every single chapter opener. So it was just a really beautiful project and I'm so proud of it because it was a lot of work and there were so many times I would tell Usai, I just don't want to do this book. And she's like, come on, we're almost there, which was not true because we're probably on chapter one. But, you know, she was like really like encouraged, like let's, we have to finish this project. And it is daunting because you think about how many recipes you have to do and how each essay or each, you know, recipe opener has to make sense.

40:37You want to make people know what the story is, make them want to cook it. And it just can be, oh, the black cake is something we had during Christmas. It's going to be a little more meat on the bones. Right. And also the fact that you started the proposal a decade ago, more than that, it must have been like such a long process. But I think the result is it's like a family heirloom. The fact that your family worked on it together, the fact that it'll be in people's homes. Like, I think all of that care really comes across. Yeah. I want to talk to you about Top Chef a little bit. The fact that you first encountered New Orleans as a city when you were on Top Chef, I think, must have been such an unusual way to kind of get to know the city.

41:17Do you remember what your first impressions were like in that moment? Well, I remember when they said, it was like the week before we were going to film, they said the location is going to be in New Orleans. And I told my husband, like, oh, my God, I'm going to finally go to New Orleans. And I remember when I landed, we were in an area that did not look very New Orleans. It was some suburb where they held all the cast. And the next day we went to the French Quarter to the cast house. and I remember just driving and just being in silence but just looking at all the houses and the people and just everything and once we started filming I was exposed to Leah Chase, Emma Lagasse, Donald Link, David Kinch, so many chefs that I admired.

42:10I'm like I'm cooking for these people. I can't believe it. And somehow it always, when we wrapped and I told my husband, I'm like, I really want to figure out a way we can get back there. And it wasn't like a driving force, but it was always in the back of my head. Like there's some way I need to end up there again. And when we got the chance at the restaurants, we were so scared because it's such a big food city and there are so many impactful chefs and people know what they're talking about when they talk about food. And it's not just the chefs that are cooking professionally. It's also the home cooks.

42:49They know how to cook. People would bring you a quart of gumbo and it's the best gumbo you'll ever have. So when we got to move to open a restaurant, I was just like, this is pretty intimidating. And I didn't know how people were going to respond to us opening a restaurant. not being from New Orleans and it was a lot of buzz and I was I was really scared because everybody's like oh Nina Compton from Top Chef makes her return and I was just like I just want to come in very quietly but it wasn't the case but luckily the people of New Orleans are so lovely and beautiful and welcoming that they made they were so excited people were stopping us in the grocery store saying thank you for moving here and we're just like nobody's ever said that to us and it was just 10 years later we're still there and we we just love it yeah new orleans is my favorite it's maybe one of my favorite cities in the world i i have spent a lot of time there because my sister used to live there and i think when you are there you just couldn't be anywhere else there's such a distinct sense of place and i think that all of the people who live there know exactly who they are because they know where they come from and they know that New Orleans is such a special city for all of these reasons that you're talking about.

44:06So I feel like being able to kind of be a part of that city and contribute to it and learn from it must be just a really special experience for a chef like yourself. No, it really is. And I think Topshed did a really good job of their research on the challenges that we would do. It was very in tune with what New Orleans is about. and it was like a little educational tip for me doing the show of like what to expect and it was just a great experience and it led me back to New Orleans. So your first restaurant in New Orleans, Comper La Pet, you opened as you were moving there. Then you opened Bywater American Bistro, or Babs as it's called now.

44:47Later on, how did you approach that second restaurant once you were already like living in the city, had a better understanding of the scene? Well, it's a funny story. So we lived in that building where Babs is. Really? We lived upstairs. And it's a funny story because when we moved to New Orleans, I said, I want to buy a house with a rose garden in the garden district. I want to live on St. Charles or something, whatever it was. Uptown, yeah. I already had my mind set. And we looked at places. we had a realtor and we would it's too big or it's we wanted one story whatever it was like nothing really spoke to us and my husband said like hey we're running out of time we don't have time to be house hunting and opening a restaurant let's just sign a lease in this loft for a year end up being five years but the restaurant down below which is an Italian restaurant Maritza we we became regulars over there and we were thinking about doing a second restaurant you know just bring something to the neighborhood and the chef and his wife that ran the restaurant they said we're just tired we just want a break we just want somebody to take over the lease and we're just like we'll take it over and it was the best time.

46:11So we did a quick transition and took it over and it was great because we would just walk up one floor and we were home. So it's still going. I mean, we live a minute away from it now, but it's, yeah, it's still going. Yeah, it's so interesting. I feel like Bywater as a neighborhood, there's been so much development and like growth there over the years. Do you have your local spots in the neighborhood? Yeah, so there is Small Mart that is this cute little cafe and they have the best bagels. And that's a great one. There's also Petit Clouette, which is another cute little cafe. Bacchanal, Akamaya.

46:54Alma is a great, whenever I have friends in town, I go there for brunch. Amazing Honduran food. There's just so many places popping up now that it's really adding so much more to the neighborhood. Yeah, I think when people go to visit New Orleans, obviously a lot of people spend time in the quarter. They go to the Garden District, all of that. But I'm always recommending people go to Bywater for an afternoon and walk around. Go to like Music Box Village also. Which is, I don't even know how to explain it. I guess it's like a playground where all of the things make sounds. Yes. Is that right? Yeah.

47:29It's an interesting space to go. There's also Studio B that is incredible. So I always recommend people like there's a lot to do in that neighborhood, even though it looks a little bit spread out. But it's walkable. It's fun. And it's a legit neighborhood. Yeah, it definitely feels that way when you're there. I feel like New Orleans is a city of neighborhoods. Yes, it is. Yeah, I agree. So I imagine people must ask you if you would ever want to go back on a competition show. So I'm going to ask you that as well. I have been asked to go back and I wouldn't do it. They got me, they got me pretty close.

48:09A couple of years ago, they're like, we're going to have you. It was actually during the pandemic. They're like, we're going to be doing an international top chef that's going to be filmed in London. And we're going to have people from all seasons, from all over the world. And we really want to have you. And I started the process. And then I just said, no, I said, I don't think I want to do this. You don't have to go back through all of that. It's just a lot. It's a mental game. It's a physical game. I'm older, you know, and I'm good. I don't need to prove myself to anybody. I have great restaurants.

48:44I'm doing great. So I don't need to do that anymore. Yeah, I think that's a very, like, reasonable and smart way to feel about it. Yeah, I think it takes, like, probably a certain temperament to even do that one time, much less twice. And it's a lot. I think it's the hardest thing I've done because there's no way to prepare for it. Even though we knew that we'll be shooting in New Orleans, I'm like, oh, we're going to have a beignet challenge. No beignet challenge. We had a hot sauce challenge, which I didn't think about. So there are a lot of things that we thought we would have and we didn't have.

49:16And you don't have a cell phone. You don't have a recipe book. You're just going in with your knives and you're just, you're winging it. And it's fun if, you know, if you can do that, but it's a tough, there are no days off, the schedule can, we could wrap super late and then we could start filming at 5 a.m. So it's, your body's out of whack. So it takes a toll. I don't regret doing it, but. You did it. Yeah. Yeah, I did it. I'm good. Yeah. If the pandemic projects were between going back on Top Chef and starting this cookbook again, I'm glad that you started the cookbook again. Same. Same. So I want to talk a little bit about the book tour.

50:00I know that you're here in New York right now for part of it. What do you have planned and what does it feel like to get to be in the celebration stage? It's beautiful. We did an event in Brooklyn with BEM last week. We're big fans of BEM. They just came on the show recently. Yeah, they are just doing, they're just, the energy is so beautiful. And the energy in that brownstone was beautiful. It was all Caribbean women that came. And it felt like I was surrounded by my sisters. They were just glowing and happy and complimentary. and so when you see that the excitement that people have getting this book and getting to meet you or take a picture it's really great so you know it's not a full city we're not doing every city we're just doing some selective cities for now and hopefully do some more in the fall but right now we're doing New York then I'm doing Chicago in May Miami of course in June and then I'm doing the Caribbean in the summertime.

51:08Oh, that's going to be really fun. What's the New York event that you're doing tonight? So we're doing a JBF platform, James Beard platform tonight. And that's just going to be a casual conversation with Osai and some small bites from the book. That sounds really nice. Yeah. I feel like we didn't really talk about Miami and all of the cities that we've talked about, but I guess what did Miami bring to you as a chef? it's so funny because Miami when I moved there I could not get my footing for some reason as a chef, as a person moving there, it was just very hard for me to get stabilized and my sister was living there and she had she went to UM so she had her fan her core group of people and I didn't because I was working And I remember I told, I said, I'm going to give it one year.

52:05And we hit October. And I'm like, in December, I'm leaving. And then Miami Carnival came out. And I went to these events and I saw my people. And then I started making connections. And then I'm like, okay, Miami is not so bad. And then 14 years later, I was still there. So understanding Miami was really instrumental for me as a chef living in the States and understanding how impactful Caribbean cuisine is and seeing people use yucca and conch and, you know, turmeric and coquette milk in these restaurants. And I'm like, this is beautiful. And also seeing things through a Latin, Afro-Latin lens, which I have never experienced living in the Caribbean because it's normally French, African, Indian.

52:59But then seeing people use plantains as tostones, which we don't normally do. But just seeing how they use those ingredients differently was so intriguing. but being surrounded with also people from Haiti, people from Cuba, Jamaica, Barbados, San Lucian, and you also had Nicaragua. You also had Belize. You had people from Honduras, Colombia, Peru, and just being exposed to those cuisines was, I couldn't ask for anything better because it was, the food was so energizing and so much flavor and just so different and so fresh. and I was just constantly learning. So that's what kind of kept me there for so long.

53:44Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And it's interesting to me. I feel like Miami, similar to New Orleans, is a very singular city in the United States. And when you go there, it feels like you could be in all of these different countries. It's the only place I've been in the U.S. where people speak Spanish first, no matter who you are, which I love and I think is so much fun. But I had never been there because I grew up in California. So it's like, you know, flying all the way across the country. But once I moved to New York and I went to Miami, I was like, oh, Miami is incredible. And the food I've had there is like the best food I've had.

54:15Yeah, there is every cuisine you can get. Every cuisine. And it's, again, that's another city that is really about time and place where you know where Miami is. It's not going to Kentucky where you could be like, where is this? Miami is very specific. Just like New Orleans, you can just look at the buildings, the architecture is the same way that that is Miami. Yeah, I totally agree. And also similar to New Orleans, everyone in Miami will remind you that you're in Miami. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They're proud. Yeah, very much so. What are you going to do when you go back to Miami? I'm cooking with my best friend.

54:54Really? Yeah, so we met at Scarpetta and at the Fountain Blue. We reopened it in 2008. And it was just a crazy time. And it was a billion-dollar construction to revamp it. And this was the height of the recession. We're just like, these people are crazy to do this. And it was such an over-the-top opening where we had the Victoria's Secret fashion show. It was like the opening night. And you had all these celebrities. And you had people like Mariah Carey. The restaurant was still under construction because we had opened a week after the opening of the hotel. and we had a like a construction curtain over the front door and we'd be like testing the food and we had Alex Rodriguez came in and he said oh are you guys serving lunch and the general manager was just he didn't want to say no and he's like of course like have a seat and he comes back he's like A-Rod wants lunch and we're like we we don't have a menu like we're still testing the stuff and he comes back he's like oh he just wants a Caesar salad we're like we don't have any romaine we don't so we're like running around the hotel trying to get this stuff and I guess he loved it so much that he told other celebrities so then the next day like Mariah Carey comes in for lunch and we're just like Jesus Christ what is going on here but it's something I'll never forget so So we've been friends since that day.

56:27And so we're going to be cooking in his restaurant. Wow. What did Mariah Carey eat? Do you remember? I think she went like roasted chicken, no oil and like steamed vegetables. OK, yeah. But it's it was a wild time. Miami is a crazy place. Well, I'm excited that you get to go back. It sounds like it'll be a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To close today, I want to play a little rapid fire taste check game with you. So I'll give you some questions. You're going to play favorites and tell me what comes into your head. Okay. Okay. Your favorite ice cream flavor? Pistachio. Ooh. Your favorite late night snack?

57:05Doritos Cool Ranch. I'm really glad you specified the flavor because it does matter. It does matter. It does. It does. Your favorite cookbook right now that isn't your own? Ooh. Ghana to the World. That is a beautiful book. And I know Eric very well. And I got his book at the Philly Chef Conference two weeks ago. And everybody was like going to lunch and like popping around the city. And I went up to my hotel room and I sat and I read it cover to cover. And I texted him and I said, this is a beautiful book. It is just, it's so personal and it's so needed. And it just, it really touched me. Well, I love that book and I love hearing that story.

57:49I hope you found lunch afterwards. Yeah. Something from St. Lucia that you wish was easier to find in New Orleans. Breadfruit. Your favorite New Orleans restaurant that isn't one of your own. That's not fair. I know. That is not a fair question. You could do a couple if you want. People would kill me. Are you going to plead the fifth? You could not say. Yeah, there's just too many. Okay. How about a favorite New Orleans bar to go to? Bar. That's a tough one, too. Well, I like Juho of the South. That's a good one. Chris Hanna does a really remarkable job at the bar. Okay, I don't know if you're worried about getting in trouble with the Mardi Gras cruise, but I was curious if you have a favorite parade to go to.

58:37Well, that's a hard one, too. I think I enjoy Muses because it actually comes by the restaurant. So the first year we open up, compare, we would see the parades, and you see like the big shoe. Yeah. Do you have any of the shoes? Yeah, we have quite a few shoes. Wow. So, okay, for people who are listening, they throw high-heeled shoes off. Yeah, and they're glitteratied. Yes, yes. I like aspire to catch one of those shoes. When you catch a shoe, it's the most amazing thing. And you have to be careful not to let it hit you in the head also. Okay, final question. a scene from like a book or a movie that you wish that you could magically eat in real life?

59:22It would be Casino, where Robert De Niro says, he goes into the kitchen and he opens the muffin and he says, I want you to count every blueberry that goes into the muffin. So you want to eat it, not count all the blueberries. Yeah, exactly. That's such a good one. And Nina, thank you so much for coming on the show. My pleasure. This was so fun. Thank you for having me.

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