591: From Condé to Culinary School to 2.3 Million on TikTok with Meredith Hayden of The Wishbone Kitchen

23:35You can go. Haven't been in years, but you're making me want to go. I know. Love to hear that kind of kind of thought about a restaurant. Yeah. Tell me about your private chef life because you lead the line, but you still need to make money. Yeah. Are you working at Condé and then at nights doing private work? How do you develop as a private chef? Because I know Wishbone Kitchen is the narrative around it. Your story is a private chef and your stories of cooking for all sorts of interesting people. Yeah. So just for financial transparency, the job I had at Condé Nast was paying me about like$30 ,000 a year.

24:09and I had just moved into a new apartment that was a little bit more expensive than my past one. Still like a hole in the wall, didn't have a window in my room, like the tiniest space. Sounds like a New York City apartment. Yeah, it was in a great neighborhood. And when you're in your 20s, that's all that matters. And so after doing my externship with Charlie Bird, it's obviously a paid externship. I was like, wow, having an extra stream of income, whether it be an extra one or$200 a week, has really made a difference in like how I can live my life. So I didn't want to give up that extra one or$200 a week.

24:43So I went to my culinary school's career advisor newsletter and I looked for part-time jobs or even full-time jobs that I thought would be able to provide me a better salary. I applied to a ton of jobs in food media. I mean, I was applying to every job under the sun at Bon Appetit at this time because I'm like, I already work here. So it's like technically you should want to hire me. What year are we talking about? Just so we know. This was 2019. OK. Early 2020. So actually, no, 2019. So November, December 2019. And I had stumbled upon a few listings for private chefs, which I had zero context or knowledge about the industry in culinary school.

25:28They only really teach you about being a restaurant chef or being a restaurant line cook. No other sort of context is given. Like working with clients, client service, like the way you'd have to travel a bit. Exactly. And so I attribute my history of babysitting to my ability to kind of wrap my mind around private chef work and how that could work. not from actual real life private chef experience, but just experience in being in other people's homes and providing a service for them. And so I'm like, yeah, I can go over to someone's house and cook them dinner. Why not? Like I do it at my house all the time.

26:08Simple as that. Let's go. Exactly. I'm like, it makes sense to me. So I had applied. I'd reached out to a few people via email. I kind of got the vibe from some people like they were looking for really healthy, vegan, boring food. And I was like, I don't really want to do that. And then I met my clients that I ended up working with for four years. I went in to do a test run for them. I, you know, asked them what kind of flavors they like and if they wanted to send over any inspo or what have you. And the recipes they chose, I remember being like, oh, these people are fun. Like they sent me all of these amazing recipes from New York Times cooking.

26:51And it was just like real food. And so I showed up to their apartment. I cooked them dinner. I said, like, you don't have to pay me or anything. But I would just love to have the opportunity to work for you guys. And that's how I got started. And then four years later, here we are. Here we are. Was it like a nice house? It was in an apartment. Just an apartment? Yeah, it was a gorgeous apartment. I had no context as to who these people were or what they did. I was like, their personal life is... A little Googling before? I didn't Google them before, which is hilarious because everyone says like, oh, you were working at Vogue and then you started working as a private chef for a fashion designer.

27:32There must have been some sort of connection. It was completely happenstance. Hi there. It's Matt, co-host of the show. We are currently running a This Is Taste listener survey, and we'd love to hear from you. Do you have a guest request? A restaurant you wish we'd visit to talk about on Three Things? What about a lesser-known cookbook author who deserves a spot in our studio chair? You can let us know by clicking the link in our show notes to complete the survey. It will only take a couple minutes, I swear, and will help us continue to make the best show possible. That's the This Is Taste listener survey, link in our show notes.

28:10From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, an exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story. The 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist. Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-starred talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus.

28:53The full program is available at MontrealOnLumiere.com, presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. I mean, we've had private chefs on, and you're giving a little peek behind the curtain about how you start this four-year relationship. So tell us a little bit about what it's like cooking for a designer and a busy family. Are you traveling with them? You think about that as part of a private chef life, but some don't do that. And, I mean, you have to, like, you really got to show your skills because you can't just be making the same stuff. I know that. So two parts to that question.

29:29I wasn't traveling with them because I started officially working for them January 2020. Oh, there you go. So we all know where that goes. They had floated the idea to me February 2020 to see if I'd be interested in going out to the Hamptons with them in the summer. And at the time, I had never been to the Hamptons, was kind of afraid of it. Really? You had never been? You weren't a Hamptons person. No, I grew up going to Nantucket with my family. We went every summer since 97. And so it was in my blood to hate the Hamptons. That's like the rivalry. And so I was like, OK, how am I going to make this work?

30:07Working my office job and then going out to the Hamptons on the weekend to cook for people and then going back to the city on Sunday, Monday and going back to my office job. Like this was not work. There were no work from home situations. And I was like, honestly, that sounds impossible, but I guess I could figure it out. Thankfully, not thankfully, but eventually pandemic got furloughed from my job, eventually laid off from my job. So I was like kept the job through the private chef. Yeah. Oh, I would. You didn't bail out. This is cool. No. Well, because I needed the health insurance and just the job security.

30:45I was way too scared to, you know, rely on freelance work at that age. And even though that is probably the age where you could do that, I was just terrified to have that kind of responsibility. So I kept my job at Condé Nast while I had started building this private chef business. And I was under the impression all summer I was going to go back to work in August because everyone was furloughed for three months. and I had really started to enjoy the private chef thing, started getting inquiries from friends and family to cater stuff like backyard weddings and all of these small gatherings that people were doing during the pandemic.

31:25And when I finally got word that I was officially laid off, I like obviously had a moment of panic, but then I was like, I just have to figure this out. I mean, people, the budget that people had for these events was very enticing to me, especially coming from making such a low salary that I was like I feel like if I could land one job one good job a month plus these like regular clients I could easily make double what I was making yeah you figured out the margins of work yeah that's cool yeah um and so that was really exciting and that's kind of also how I discovered my love of home cooking instead of restaurant cooking it's a great segue because I want to I want to really get to the origin of Wishbone Kitchen because, you know, you set it up really nicely.

32:13You know, you were a working private chef. You had this corporate job, but you were an unknown person. You were just a person. You're not a person anymore. You have this incredible following and folks listening to the show, I'm sure, follow you and really love you. And you've got this debut cookbook. So what's it like? Like, what's the origin of posting as Wishbone Kitchen and then just getting the traction. You clearly have the special sauce, pun intended. Thank you. But really, there must have been some trial and error. I just like the origin story of like, how did you get into posting? So I had been posting stories of me at culinary school and cooking on the weekends on my personal Instagram as you would post, you know, going on a hike with your friends or, you know, it was a very casual thing.

33:03And I started getting all these people in my DMs, like friends from college that I hadn't spoken to in years and cousins that I hadn't seen in a few months. They were like, I love your stories when you post cooking. You need to post more of these. And I was like, OK, well, I don't want to spam everybody. I still want to have my personal sort of space on the Internet. So I made a food account. And this was also I had already started private chefing. So I was like, this will be good because now I can advertise my private chef services. And so that was kind of my thought process around starting the account.

33:38The name, I had gone through a few different names. Some of them are like so embarrassing and cringe. Give us one. Give us one, please. Okay. One was called Food Baby Mama, which is like so a sign of the times. I can't. I mean, listen, it is a sign of the times. I reckon about 2020, 2021. Internet lingo. Thank you for not picking that one. But I landed on the name Wishbone Kitchen, inspired by my mom. She would roast a chicken for us every week, and we would do the little pull apart the wishbone after dinner and make a wish. I have memories of that myself. And we all, my whole family just has a ton of superstitions around luck.

34:18My mom's nickname is Ladybug. I love finding signs of luck. I don't know. It's silly, but it makes me remember home. And it feels like very reminiscent of my childhood to like look for those signs of luck. And so Wishbone Kitchen was always inspired by that ritual of pulling apart the wishbone. but then also just kind of like having those wish like you would make a wish and you would hope for it to come true like it just felt like a moment of fairy tale in the monotony of life works in many ways it's a personal uh symbol of of your family's history with chicken but yeah there's definitely a little bit of fairy tale that's sprinkled on your content you know especially with the hampton stuff oh totally um i i think a big thing that i realized during the pandemic was the ability for food to transport you to a different place because we were all stuck at home and you couldn't go to that glorious vacation in Mexico.

35:24So you can make margaritas at home. Like that kind of thought thinking became much more apparent to me that cooking as a form of escape and a form of sort of self-entertainment was so valuable, especially during those times. And I find myself really inspired by that kind of thought process. So one of the menus in the cookbook is, in the cookbook, there's a section called making a menu where I kind of curate most of the recipes into dinner party menus. I like that. It's a nice moment. Yeah, they have like different themes. And one of the themes is manifesting the med. And that's based on like, you're on Instagram, you're on social media, you see all these people drinking Aperol spritzes on the beach in the south of France or whatever.

36:18And you're like, oh my gosh, I wish I could do that. So my sort of answer to that feeling is here's a menu that'll make you feel like you're on the beaches in the south of France, but you're in your backyard with all your best friends. Yeah, we'll get to some recipes in the book. I love it. We'll get into that. I want to know about the moment when you went big. I mean, is there like a post that you felt like this is like the moment that you just became the Wishbone Kitchen at the Wishbone Kitchen? What's that like? For sure. So when I first started posting on social media, I was just posting recipe videos.

36:53My face wasn't in it. I very much took my personality out of all of my content and it was very straightforward recipe driven. And I was getting frustrated because it had been a year and nothing had really come of any of my social media efforts. And I had seen a TikTok or something where somebody had said, if you ever feel stuck creating content, you can always go back to creating content that you like to watch. You don't have to feel like you have blinders on and you're stuck in this niche. And people who are successful with food videos on TikTok at that time were only posting those high-res, detailed food tutorial videos.

37:33Yeah, with the whisper voice, pans and hands. Yeah, exactly, pans and hands. And so I tried to recreate that pans and hands formula and I don't have a fancy camera. I don't have good lighting equipment. It wasn't until I, you know, thought, well, I love watching vlog content and I love watching people take us along on a day in their life, especially when it's somebody who works a job that I don't have much experience in. And it's kind of like a peek into a life that I will never live. And it's fun and it's escapism, but you're also kind of learning something at the same time. Anyways, I'd filmed a vlog October 2021 while I was out in the Hamptons for this big fancy gig.

38:14And I remember editing it and I did not post it until March because I was so in my head. I was like, nobody cares. Why would you post this? That's so embarrassing. Wow. You sat on this gold content. Yeah. I love that. That's a good story. It shows sometimes you just need to let it marinate a little bit. I know. I mean, like you had said, before I had posted that video, I was a nobody. And then I had posted it. And then all of a sudden I started to transition into something. And that sort of metamorphosis was very exciting, but also so scary. How do you feel at that moment? What do you mean by scary?

38:48It's interesting. Well, I think the biggest fear of putting yourself out there online or in person is being misunderstood. And I think posting on social media is very vulnerable. and you don't have control over how people are going to perceive you and how people are going to interpret your words or your actions. And so I think there's a little bit of like release of the control. Like you kind of surrender to the court of public opinion in a way. Are you thinking that the perception is that like this is your house, you're not like hustling with two jobs and this is just some deletante who didn't go to culinary school just like trying to flex some some like right tick tock magic well i think like very early on before i even decided i wanted to go to culinary school it was evident to me that the food space was a male-dominated space and i wanted to do every single thing i could in order to earn respect and also give nobody any sort of ammo to discredit my passion for food, my skill.

39:58And so I didn't want to be the girl who didn't go to culinary school and just, you know, throws on makeup and blows her hair dry and curls her hair and looks all cute in her outfits and then makes silly little recipes. I wanted to be taken seriously. And so that's why I kind of hid myself from all of my content in the beginning because I had had a private chef agency tell me, you know, we have very serious clients and we think you would be best fit for things like bachelorette parties. That sucks. Fuck that. I know. That's fucking terrible. And so it was always this like under this unsaid tone of like not being taken seriously because of how I present myself and things that I'm interested outside of food.

40:45And I tried to suppress that for the first year on social media. And it wasn't until I just like put it all out there that people were like, you know what? Yeah. And Meredith's fun. Meredith knows what she's doing. Nice with the nice with the skills. I mean, that's that's really this the special sauce there for it. It's like real credibility with the with the culinary ideas. But of course, being a fun hang. Exactly. Like a fun I remember when I was very, very young talking to my parents about politics. My dad said, obviously, you have to align with a politician's views on the issues, but you also really need to want to have a beer with them.

41:23Yeah. And I think about that all the time. And I feel like that's kind of the embodiment of what you just described. I have some questions about the book. But before that, you know, you write openly about your frustration with with food media and gatekeeping. And I totally get it. I mean, you've told the story. You applied for all these jobs at the company you worked for. You were in culinary school. You were nice with the skills, but you didn't get those jobs. And I just want to know, like, how did this, like, rejection, this gatekeeping, you know, drive you to launch Wishbone? And just general thoughts about that era, because I think you have a really good story to tell.

42:01Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of people can resonate with feeling bamboozled by the amount of rejection they experience in their career. we were sort of sold this story that if we worked really hard and we studied really hard and we got good grades and we went to the good school and we did the extracurriculars that we would graduate and we would be able to get a job that paid us enough money to buy a house and live a life like live the American dream and I think a lot of us feel a little cheated out of that and this is a very niche example of that where I'm like okay I went to business school I had a job in sales and marketing.

42:41I went to culinary school and you're telling me I can't even get a job in marketing for a food publication. I just felt like, what else do you want from me? I felt so frustrated. I felt so, you know, discounted. And again, the biggest reason why I kind of made it work is because I had to and I was unemployed and nobody hired me. And I had people texting me, calling me, saying they'll give me a couple thousand dollars to come over and make some dinner yeah for them and their family and i was like you know i'll do that these people want me these people want these are the people who value my services right it's funny because i i coordinated a lot of office catering during my job as an assistant and i would see i was like oh my god the company's paying thousands of dollars for this mediocre yeah lunch catering i could do this so much better cantaloupe from like you know three seasons ago and so that's when i started like okay maybe i could really do this in terms of just making money from cooking um but yeah that's kind of what drives me is just number one necessity and then number two the platforms like tiktok allow for people like me to get put in front of new eyeballs in the past you kind of had to have that seal of approval from a big media conglomerate in order to like reach a million people.

44:05And now on TikTok, it's just a matter of do people like what they're watching or are they going to keep swiping? You're going to get like 95 days of consumption for a video, right? And that's no publisher can offer you that. Right. It's good advice for I think folks listening to the show who have aspirations to work in food media and maybe have had rejection. Everyone has rejection. To maybe, you know, follow your instincts, let it hang out and do something fun. Because honestly, sometimes people can't, if they don't have the same experience as you, they can't really see what you're trying to convey.

44:42And they might put the kibosh on something because they don't trust it or, you know, they can't afford to run a story that doesn't do well this month. And they have to go for something a bit more clickbaity. And, you know, maybe next year we'll run that piece on this very niche topic that you're really interested in. But right now we really need to, you know, run another clickbait piece. And I think back to certain examples like the Queens record label didn't want to release the five minute and 55 second long version of Bohemian Rhapsody. And they were like, screw you, we're going to do it anyway.

45:17Like went to the radio studio, gave them the wrong copy of the song and they played it on the radio and it became an instant classic. Yeah. And I think about all the recipes that have gotten the kibosh because they didn't have that stamp of approval. They didn't have like they weren't in a casserole. Exactly. In February. It wasn't a quick and easy weeknight meal. You know. We'll get the tongue a little bit. Yeah. Meredith, tell me about the vibe of the Wishbone Kitchen cookbook. I just want to get a sense for the listeners who don't know your style. I think you have a really strong point of view and voice with these recipes.

45:51Explain it a bit. I feel like my I'm still finding my voice. I don't consider myself to be a food writer. And I kind of talked myself out of writing for a while until I took this cookbook on. And I realized, you know, if you have opinions and thoughts and you write them down, that makes you a writer. It's like, again, you don't need someone's permission. So a lot of my writing style and this book is very conversational and very approachable. I like to think it's like swapping recipes with a friend. I'm not seeking the perfect recipe for a roast chicken, but I'm telling a story about the roast chicken I grew up with and how I make it today and how I make it a little differently and I make it a little better.

46:42You know, every single recipe in this book has been inspired by someone or something. I don't necessarily think of myself as a recipe developer more like a recipe curator. I like that. It makes sense with what you're especially the head notes are written in such a personal way. You took some time there. You have some great stories to tell. So whether it's a recipe that my mom made growing up or a recipe I had in a restaurant I just find a way to infuse myself into it and then share it with people that I think would like to make the same thing. Well, I have some questions about specific recipes.

47:17I mean, this chicken cutlet club, outstanding. Wait, really? I need to know what about it you find to be unique. It's ranchy, right? Yeah. It's ranchy. So like chicken cutlets and ranch in a club is not the typical way of doing it, I would say. Yeah. I feel there was one other twist on it. Remind me of it. I think, okay, I can run through the sandwich and maybe it'll ring some bells. It's a crispy panko fried cutlet, buttermilk ranch, a salted slice of tomato, bacon. I also offer the option to make the bacon in the microwave. Yeah, totally. Because I'm like, okay, if I'm frying chicken cutlets, I'm not getting another pan out and getting my stove all messy with bacon grease too.

48:00So that was some of the thought process that went into it. Bread choice? bread white bread yeah totally which funnily enough the bread in the photo they ended up sourcing accidentally like a honey wheat bread and i was like you guys it needs to be white bread we photographed it anyway but that's like the one regret i have oh my god i picked the one i mean listen i've written uh cookbooks and i have the photo or two that i cannot stop looking at and and that's one of them what the fuck well but it's okay it's an amazing recipe um it's inspired by like a chicken sandwich I had in Barcelona when I was 21 years old.

48:36It changed my life. I think everyone has that sandwich that they like don't stop thinking about. It's on a brioche bun, crispy fried cutlet with a cabbage slaw that was so acidic, but also creamy. And it was also perfectly balanced. And I feel like a lot of club sandwiches that I've had are dry and sad. And I just wanted it to be reminiscent of that flavorful, crunchy, texture-filled sandwich I had had. Well, I think I was drawn to it because cutlet in a club with bacon and with ranch, that combination to me is fresh. Yeah. I like that combination. I think we tend to strip apart a few of those ideas.

49:16So I liked it. That gave me the like, that one's good. There's another one. It's your spicy squash pasta. and the head note talks about you catering a fancy party yes so tell me about this fancy party that inspired this kind of i would say it was it's a cool way of using squash uh and i liked your technique there it was really smart thank you um so funnily enough it was that weekend that i had described where i had filmed my first vlog it was no shit it's the one that was the weekend so we have i mean i can pull up the vlog for you after but you can see me making this soup in that video So it was this really, really high profile client that I was connected with through that private chef agency that was so patricious to me.

50:02You NDA'd it up. You can't say who it is? I guess I could. Who is it? It was one of the wives of this big finance guy. Yeah. So it's not a very public facing high profile client, but it was from a technical standpoint, a very high profile situation. And I was so nervous going into it. I remember I had gotten 48 hours notice. That's why they put me on the job because I was the last one left. They wouldn't have trusted me with that kind of gig, which is wrong of them. But anyways, I had gone to, traveled out to the Hamptons to cater this luncheon for this woman and her friends. And after the luncheon, she said, that lunch was so fabulous.

50:47Would you be able to stay for the rest of the weekend? I have a guest quarters down the hall. You can stay. You didn't pack an overnight. I actually did. You did. Because I like. Because during the Hamptons, you pack an overnight. I don't know. That's what you do. I mean, I was driving from my parents' house in New Jersey. God forbid, you know, the lunch runs late and I feel like I can't drive home at night and I need to crash somewhere or something. So when I was a private chef, I mean, I always just had a change of clothes. You're a planner. I get it. Yeah, just in case. Yeah. So I was like, you know, yeah, I can stay.

51:18And so she was like, okay, cool. well, I'm going to a movie premiere right now. And then my friend that I'm going with is coming back with me. Could you make us dinner? Here's what I'd like for you to make. And one of the things was vegetable soup. I forget what else I made that night. It was like fish and rice peel off or something. And I remember the only vegetable soup I grew up eating was my mom's beef and vegetable soup that was like chuck roast braised and beef broth with onions. And then at the end, she throws in frozen green beans and carrots and corn and there's some potatoes in there.

51:52So definitely not the luxe kind of soup I would want to serve in a compound to somebody like that with a staff helping me of like 15 people. I could tell it needed to be elevated. So I remember looking at the house manager. She was like my partner in crime that weekend because she would me the client's preferences that she wasn't exactly keen to disclose to me. Like I had made this vegetable soup with carrots and tomatoes and parsnips, all of these different root vegetables. It was October and vegetable broth. And I had looked at her and I was like, it looks kind of, should I keep it like with the vegetables whole and just like floating in the broth?

52:36Or do Do you think I should puree it? Because I remember in culinary school or even in fancy restaurants, you always get these like fancy purees. And it's just like I was like, that feels like fancier to me. Drizzle a little olive oil. Yeah, it looks fancy for sure. And so she was like, oh, yeah, do not serve her that bowl of broth with vegetables suspended. Like, God forbid. I was like, true. Totally true. So I got my immersion blender out and I blended up the soup. I topped it with some little feta, a micro green and a drizzle of olive oil. And she was like, oh, the soup was amazing. I plated it in her fancy china.

53:12They did like the cloche over it and everything. Stop. You had a cloche? Oh, my God. They had like carts because it would be it would take so long for them to get from the kitchen to the place that they were dining. Yeah. The dining wing that they also told me have the soup be boiling hot so that it doesn't get cold by the time we reach the dining room. The pro tips of the house manager. No, totally. She was the best. It was just like such a bizarre experience, but like an amazing experience. I'm so glad for that one weekend. And they were super nice and it was a lovely job. but definitely learned a lot about fancy, making food for people that makes them feel fancy.

53:56And then you get back and you're thinking about your cookbook and you kind of take this idea of squash and you make it into a pasta. Well, I realized, I was like, this is a great way to incorporate flavors from vegetables in a chic way. I don't know. No, it's smart. It's less clunky. It's a smart way to do it. I mean, are there any other fancy parties that you feel like you want to mention? Early in my career, I catered a book party out in the Hamptons for Rebecca Minkoff. She's also a fashion designer. Coincidentally, her head of PR, I had worked with at Condé Nast. And so she had been following me on my personal Instagram and had started following my Wishbone Kitchen Instagram when it had like 400 followers.

54:41And she was like, we need a chef. Would you be able to come out and cook a dinner for 30 people out in the Hamptons? and I was I had never done anything like that before. Meredith, I mean, do you get nervous? I mean, I feel like you're like downplaying it a little bit or you're just like ultimately it's just like you can't be nervous. But like, I am just imagining 30 people. I mean, and this isn't just like a restaurant gig. This is like you can't fuck it up. I know. You're the one. Well, I mean, funnily enough that I show up to the gig. I was so nervous. The only reason I took the job was, number one, it felt like an amazing opportunity that could potentially launch my career.

55:16It didn't. But then also I needed money and I was like, they're going to pay me money, so I'm going to make it work. I hired my best friend's little sister who was a waitress at the time and her and her friend came and they were my like staff. But I showed up to cook oven roasted salmon for 30 people. I tried to preheat the oven. I was like, something's not working. I went to open it. The oven wasn't turning on, told the guy from the PR firm that had hired me, could you come and check out the oven? Have you guys used the oven? Like it was this rental home that they'd been staying in. He goes to check the oven and the door falls off the hinges, the oven door.

55:55And so I have no oven and I have to cook salmon for 30 people in like an hour. And I only have the pots and pans that came with the house because I wasn't planning on cooking anything on the stove because it was all like very fresh local veg. and then the cooked salmon and whatever. And I had to just, like, throw it in an all-clad and say a prayer. And instead of doing individual fillets, I did a sort of, like, deconstructed salmon where you kind of, like, flake off big chunks of it and then you, like, top it with a sauce and herbs. So you were doing, like, a shallow saute? Yeah, almost like a steam.

56:34Oh, okay. Oh, you all clad it with a cover. I see what you're saying. I covered it because I knew I wasn't going to— I cooked the salmon in two big pieces, cut it because it was a whole side of salmon. I cut it in half and I cooked them both at the same time. And I knew I couldn't flip them because they would just get stuck and fall apart. And there were these like massive hunks of fish. So I was like, I'll just put them in here and steam them. And once they're cooked, I'll remove them from the pan and flake off these like chic big chunks of salmon. Oh, yeah. And arrange them in a way that's like rustic or I don't know.

57:10It's rustic. I mean, you were throwing some cool salt shapes on there. Yeah, yeah. And citrus. And then, I mean, I always say like the dinner party failure is the failure of the chef to sell it. Yeah. So if you like super fuck up your dinner party, you just like present it to the audience. And just like have confidence. That's one of my biggest tips for hosting is to bury the lead with your guests. don't you know make promises you can't keep because that's when you find yourself in some trouble and i've found myself in that position a lot as a private chef um always undersell the menu because then you'll always exceed their expectations that's what i mean like you verbal what the meal is you don't like over promise you explain and then you kind of like you present it right you don't just like throw it down and have like a failure in front of it you got to kind of persuade, but do it subtly because I agree.

58:05Never oversell. No one wants to hear about how amazing the food's going to be from the chef. It's like fine, but if you had said, oh, it's no big deal, and then you whip out this gorgeous platter of salmon, they're like, wow, I had no idea you had it in you. You got stories. Have you done some TV talks? Are we developing this story into something scripted? Because there's an energy here. that works. It's so funny because when I started working as a private chef in my first summer out in the Hamptons, standing there as a 23 year old catering these events, I remember I was like, this is kind of crazy that this is happening.

58:44My life is a movie. My life is a movie, but like not in a narcissistic sort of like self-involved way. Just kind of like when you think about it objectively, this is kind of crazy that this is happening. But yeah, no, I mean, right now I just have been sharing my story through the book and through my website. And I've started to start sharing more personal stories and anecdotes in my sub stack as I sort of find my voice and my footing in food writing because, you know, I transitioned my videos into personal storytelling, but it hasn't been until recently that I've felt confident enough to honor that in my writing as well.

59:28And so it's, yeah, it's been fun to start exploring. I feel like once you start getting these stories down, there's going to be some more interest. I love that. I can't let this interview pass without mentioning, this is an extremely very pro Adam Brody podcast. Like we are team Adam Brody. Got to interview him once on his OC press tour back in the day. I got to interview him when I was younger and he was younger. But you You cooked with Adam Brody. I did. You cooked with Adam Brody. And you have a great video for it. Tell me about that. Well, I have some unfortunate news. I was not an Adam Brody fan before cooking with him.

1:00:08Literally, you didn't know who this guy was. I knew of him. I knew of the OC. But it was a bit before my time. And I grew up with an older brother. And so shows like that were not an option in the house. It was either sports, video games, or watching the Food Network with my mom. So I'd never watched The O.C. and I know that he's beloved and adored. So I like had that going into it. And his new Netflix show had just come out and I told myself, I'm not going to watch it until after I cook with it because I don't want to be nervous. And so I sort of went into it just being like, oh, I'm cooking for this guy that people seem to really like.

1:00:45And he was so nice. It was at the end of like the longest shoot day of what I imagine was like a very long week of shooting. We were on set with Pringles doing their Super Bowl commercial. I wasn't in the actual commercial, but the whole premise of the video was cooking with Adam Brody and Pringles on set while filming the Super Bowl commercial, which is such a like sort of wild concept. Sounds like an agency might have been involved there. Totally, totally. So the circumstances were not ideal. The room was like filled with 40 people. We would film our parts on my phone. Literally, it was just my phone on a tripod.

1:01:28In between takes of a scene, they were shooting in the same room, but they were running over time and they had to get the scene done. And so we were really under like the worst circumstances ever. And he was so fun and understanding and patient. because I feel like that's always a concern with food is it never works out the way you want it to, no matter how many. It dies, you know, per camera. Like it just like dies when the camera's on. He was just so easy breezy. And I'm now a lifetime Adam Brody fan. I can say that that converted me. Good. Well, it makes two of us. I love that. Meredith, on this is Taste We Asked Guests about the discerning taste.

1:02:05So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit. strawberry raspberry you went strawberry at raz i like the pivot yeah in real time yeah because raspberries are always good a good strawberry insane but it's too variable a lot of bad ones you're well said the worst vegetable

1:02:30oh oh i don't know you like them all i don't i used to hate green beans but recently i've really been enjoying them Fair. So I'm a converted green bean hater. There's got to be one that gives you the icks. What's an example of something someone else has said? I mean, parsnips have been taken L's left and right here as of late. I like a parsnip. Okay, fair. What about - Oh, I know. Good. Okay, it's not the world's worst vegetable. It's my personal least favorite, cauliflower. Fair. Oh, wow. I hate cauliflower. There's a cauliflower recipe in the book. You put it in there because your editor was like, maybe put it a little - No, I was like, I know people love cauliflower.

1:03:11People do. And I just like used a recipe from Charlie Bird that we had done with fennel and I just like did it with cauliflower. There. I like it. Honest. What's your typical breakfast? I fluctuate between oatmeal with berries, yogurt with berries, or like a cottage cheese slice of tomato chives situation. Ooh, I like that savory. I also have been loving cereal. Yeah. Lately. I go in floats. What's the brand? What are we doing? Honey Bunches of Oats. Oh, that is a grail. That is one of the best ones. It's so good. Are you the yellow gold or the blue? Classic honey. Your classic honey. I also got a box of Cookie Crisp recently, and I've been putting that on my ice cream at night.

1:03:56I haven't checked in with Cookie Crisp in a while. So good. Good to know. I can check that one out. What's the best dessert? I think if I had to pick one dessert to eat for the rest of my life and it would only be that one dessert, it would be ice cream. Oh, yeah. Definitely. It's just so reliable. Do you mess around and make it yourself? No. So I had mentioned earlier, I am a new found sweet tooth person. Yeah. Growing up, I had exclusively liked savory. I had no interest in dessert, really. And I don't know if I'm just growing up or what, but my taste buds now crave sweets. And I've been having so much fun trying all of Jenny's ice cream flavors.

1:04:37and I now want to make a new ice cream flavor. I'm saying this publicly to hold myself accountable. I want to make a new ice cream flavor every week this summer. That is crazy. And have like a little series like ice cream of the week. I like that. Because I'm just like, I love it so much. It's so fun. Are you going to be making a specific piece of equipment or is it like... I have like a Cuisinart plug-in ice cream machine. I had used it as a private chef to do, actually at that Rebecca Minkoff party, like a homemade Nespresso, espresso-infused gelato situation. Cool. So I'll probably just use that, but I am eyeing like the really fancy restaurant machines.

1:05:17Like those look pretty fun. Those would be fun to do. Is there a restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead? Oh, yes. Uncle Boone's. Yes. Uncle Boone's. Let's go there. I lived on Spring Street two blocks down from Uncle Boone's. It was in the basement of this building, also on Spring Street. Such a cool vibe. My intro to Thai food in general. And they are one of the many restaurants we lost during COVID. They've since opened Thai Diner, which people love. But the vibe in that space before was just like so incredible. Thai Diner is a totally different vibe. A lot of the same recipes.

1:05:58But two of the recipes in the book are actually directly inspired by Uncle Boone's. the crab fried rice and the cow soy. It was one of those restaurants that changed the way I looked at food and the restaurant space. I mean, I remember sweating out in the cave. Yeah. I mean, you're like in one of those corners in the cave and you've had a little bit of lob that hit a little harder than you thought. I'm like, I just remember it. I had my birthday party there one year. They had this like big punch bowl. It was just like such a time. It was such a fun place. Those guys are great hosts. I love those guys.

1:06:33When you're craving fast food, what's the move? I think, you know, my family's from the South. I went to school down South, so I love Cookout. I love Zaxby's. I love Chick-fil-A. But all reliable for me is McDonald's. Yeah, definitely. And Taco Bell. Oh, you went Taco Bell for number two? Yeah. I think we— Or Wendy's. I've actually come to the conclusion recently that Wendy's deserves a little bit more respect. Definitely. I mean, it's not just for the frost you're talking about for the regular items. Yeah, the chicken sandwich. Ooh, I haven't hit that. Before Chick-fil-A made like actual delicious chicken sandwiches readily available throughout the nation, the Wendy's chicken sandwich was really my first experience with something that wasn't like a chicken patty.

1:07:21Yeah. You know? And then you took it and you made it into a BLT. There you go. There you go. You were inspired by it. A couple more. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food? Um, I really enjoyed my time in Barcelona. I studied the history of food and wine there. And I feel like Italian food is really popular here in the States. And the history of Italian food is really popular in food media. And it was interesting to kind of dive deep into something that at the time wasn't as popular. Yeah, it's a great cuisine to focus on. It's a great reminder about Spanish cuisine's, you know, deep, deep roots in history.

1:07:59It's so complex. Yeah. And there's so much lore there. It's very interesting. Last one. We've had a lot of sandwich talk, but I really want to get it. Your favorite sandwich.

1:08:11Recently, as in the past five years, I've been really loving a chicken salad sandwich. Yeah. With chips and a Diet Coke. Like, to me, that is summer. Totally. Now, question. Do you put grapes in your chicken salad? No. Fair. Not judging. Is there any leading the witness? I have a few different chicken salads that I like. For a chicken salad sandwich, I like a regular chicken salad or a curried chicken salad with golden raisins. Golden raisins, not great. But then the farmer's market by me in New Jersey makes a pecan cranberry chicken salad as well as a Waldorf chicken salad that has the grapes in it.

1:08:48Yeah. Those I exclusively eat with Triscuits. Yeah. As like a dip. Yeah. Not in a sandwich. So if it's got grapes, it's a dip, not a sandwich. I was debating Triscuits. I go between Wheat Thames and Triscuits. I'm a Triscuits girl. I love Cheez-Its, Triscuits, Goldfish. I'm a huge fan. I could even wait in Cheez-Its. What's your favorite Cheez-It flavor? I mean, it has to be Tabasco. I haven't tried that. That one's when you can find the Tabasco-branded one for sure. What about you? What's yours? I really like the Cheez-It Duos, Parm and Extra Cheddar. They have the flavor-blasted dust on the outside.

1:09:26and they're like the two flavors in one bag but they did a collab with hidden valley ranch last year and it sounded so good i wanted to try it so bad but i couldn't find it anywhere and they ended up sending me a box of like 40 boxes a box of boxes ranch flavor cheese it's and the social media girl had dm'd me and was like i'm talking to corporate about putting these available for sale on our website and they did because i was like demanding access to this flavor of cheese I don't know if they're still available on their website. You are making me happy. You're such a pro ranch chef. Meredith Hayden, this has been a ton of fun.

1:10:01Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you for having me.

1:10:09This Is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, Director of Media Production and Development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.