630: Is Akhtar Nawab New York City’s Most Respected Chef?

27:33That's Loring Place's kind of space, right? It's like three doors east, I think. Oh, my God, the Shoe Street. The Shoe Street, yeah. 8th Street, what an impossible place to open. well at the time we were like okay it's changing yeah right we're we're this is the one block of 8th street that's still west yeah you know we thought there was a lot happening and there was things happening but um it just never fully changed i think for us but regardless you know i think we had we got kind of as far as we could get yeah this is i think i reviewed eletaria at metro mix when i was like it was long forgotten publication we we did reviews yes i feel like i I liked it.

28:13That's why I feel like I've always had very positive impressions of your cooking. Like I've never had a negative thought. So I probably gave it a positive review. Well, I hope so. But we definitely gave it our all back then. As a team, I would say not one plate ever was put up without being scrutinized. Completely. Yeah, totally. You go on to open, do a bunch of things. And it really shows, after your entrepreneurial nature, you worked on food halls. You were a chef at La Esquina and helped, you know, make La Esquina a really a culinary destination, not just like a place where, you know, celebrities hang out.

28:46So talk about this like period after Eletaria where you're you're doing concepts around the country. The La Esquina times must have been interesting. Yeah, it was very much so. So after Eletaria closed, I was very depressed. Yeah, I really. You were totally depressed. Oh, man. How'd you get through it? You know, time, I guess. My daughter, I would say more than anything, you know, kind of investing more time in the relationship and making sure I appreciate it for what it was. That was the right choice to make, by the way. I think over time, like I was like, man, I really don't want to do the same thing I was doing.

29:25I don't want to have three people working on a dish. I would like to stop screaming and yelling so much. You felt like you were? Totally. Yeah, Elatoria Daisy. I was very kind of, I think, a little less predictable. Yeah, yeah. But I was just so intense. You know, it was a very intense kind of time. And there was a lot riding on your shoulders for that level of success that I guess, you know, you put on yourself to some extent. We didn't have mentorship to show you the other way because you look at Clickio and he's the first to admit, like, that can be a loud kitchen. Damien Weiss can, that can be a loud kitchen.

30:01Sure. Chang can be a loud kitchen. Sure, sure. I mean, we can't hide from the reality of a cultural change in today's era. It was a different time. Different time, yeah. You know, plus I had a group of kind of kids that were working for me at the time. We're all kids, but working for me at the time that, you know, they got it. They understood what we were after, and they understood the intensity required to get it where we wanted to be. that being said you know i didn't want to continue to pursue kind of my career in that same way after that and i i really said i need to do something different i have no idea what it is but something with an equal amount of soul but something also that is materially different and this job for lost skin up popped up through a recruiter and i said i i don't know how anything about this food really almost mexican food was not like you knew it but it wasn't i think rick Bayless was the only chef I had heard of in the entire country doing Mexican at the time, literally.

31:04And I had eaten at his places in Chicago. And I just didn't know anything about it. And I said, okay, I'll try. And I went and talked to the owner, this guy James, and I told him I was so open about it. James Gersten is his name. And he's like, you know what, Oktar, Eric, as long as you're open to learning, I think if you're able to manage the environment, I think you can do this. And I did pursue it, you know, and I ended up staying there for like four years. That's a run, yeah. It was a good size kind of run. I had a lot of, you know, responsibilities to manage at that time in my life. And it was a good job for me at that time.

31:48And they were willing to, I think, change the food, invest in the food, and make it as good as I could make it. And they kind of gave me that runway. I mean, to be clear, this is like La Esquina as a central restaurant. It was only one at the moment. I think I'm not going to comment on the current La Esquina. I'll leave it at that. But when you were doing it, it's like one location. And it's like a very cool room, right? It's where people – it must have been a fun restaurant to run. It was. Because, you know, Soraya, who was the GM at the time, she now manages Zero Bond. And she and I worked very closely together.

32:24We got along very well together. And I think we did the absolute best, you know, we could with that restaurant. And it was high volume. It's very busy. And it was, you know, open late. Open very late. Open late and, like, definitely, like, A-list for New York at the time. I feel very good about the food that we did there. And it was, again, like it was a big learning curve for me. But I found myself much happier to be, I think, in that position of learning and taking a step back from some of the other management ownership type things. And really just focus on cooking, even if it was something different.

33:00What made you move on to other things after La Sculina, after four years? So after La Sculina, I just, you know, I did partner with a fast casual Mexican concept called Choza. Yeah. And then I also opened up a health food company called Indie Fresh. That's right. And so there were two separate things happening at the same time. And then I also was consulting for a friend of mine on a restaurant in D.C. called Table. That was called Table. Yeah, it was called Table. It's a challenging name. T-A-B-L-E. Yeah, that was a table. That's a challenge. I'm sorry. And no, no disrespect. This is a challenging name for a restaurant.

33:35That's what they want. Yeah, Table. And the owner, the owner, yeah, she had a couple of chefs that were there that were very well known. I think, prior to my helping out. And so I kind of just started doing a few different things. And it was just kind of fun for me to dive into a few things. And again, expand this Mexican concept from two locations when I started to five locations. And then growing the IndieFresh concept from, you know, kind of just an idea that was kind of direct to consumer to a couple of locations. and then having, you know, things sold at like Equinox and Soho House and places like that.

34:14Yeah. Is Indie Fresh still around? Did it make it through? Yeah. No. Again, like it's these, some of these startups are very tough to find the balance of, you know, when you stop burning cash kind of thing. I mean, it's nearly impossible with the margins in food. I mean, it's very hard. Can you imagine? It was. And, you know, I think it was a good effort, but I was talking about this yesterday with a friend of mine who came for dinner. Again, it's the same thing. is like, I think what we did is really good. It's just, I think it would have taken millions of dollars to grow it. Yeah. Many millions.

34:45Like founders in the fast casual QSR space. I don't know how they do it. I don't know how to scale. You have to keep raising money for eternity. Yeah, it seems like. Well, let's actually dig into Wayward Fair a little bit more. I said at the top how much I enjoyed this balance of interesting flavors, but also making it very accessible. You know, what's on the menu right now that you're really happy with? I mean, I mentioned too fish and steak. I feel like there's always a cool, and it's all shared plates too. That's the other thing I want to say. Yeah. It's like you definitely, I loved how your server when I was there was like a very assertive.

35:20Like you need six to eight plates. And it's like, great. Thank you. Let's not suggest. Let's just like you're going to do six to eight plates. Yes. Kat's like that. Yes. Oh, is her name Kat? Well, shout out to Kat. She was great. I love her. She's good. She's great. Yeah. Yeah, we're lucky to have her. Yeah. So we've done our best to educate people, I think, on how we want people to order and how I think they're going to get the best experience here. I think that we didn't – I looked for a different word for meze for I don't know how many months. I couldn't find anything that I liked, so we ended up calling it meze.

35:54But the things you find on the meze are not what you find on a typical meze. You know, it's not, you know, baba ganoush or, you know – Hummus. Hummus or, you know, that kind of thing. Instead, you know, yes, we have an eggplant dish, you know, dip or whatever. It's called ajvar. It's more of a Turkish-inspired, you know, pepper and eggplant preparation. But, you know, there's little twists in there. There's some, you know, some vinegar. There's black garlic. There's some fermented, you know, pepper paste that we do in-house. And then lots of really good olive oil. We emulsify these things together.

36:33makes it a little different, you know. And then we garnish it with some, you know, coarsely chopped walnuts and cilantro. I find it to be super clean, very delicious, and you just want to keep eating it. You know, instead of like a cheese, like a ricotta cheese, like you would see somewhere, you know, we use to legio and then a farmer's cheese. And then we have a little bit of vinegar and olive oil. And we actually combine the vinegar with the cream, right? And we get that to thicken. and then we take that thickened mixture and then whip it with the other two. And it stays in a very whipped, smooth, again, super spreadable, unctuous form.

37:10And we emulsify, again, lots of really good olive oil into it. So that's a couple of things. I love, and just the detail for just two of, what, seven or eight mezze's available? Five. Five mezze's. But we do run a couple of specials also. You do some specials too, yeah. My favorite is actually this halim, which I would be remiss not to mention because it's a very Pakistani Indian Muslim kind of dish where it's like, again, it's kind of constructed around these peasant things. Like, yes, yes, we're using chicken, but typically be lamb. and then they enrich it with like things like lentils and grains and rice and about, you know, a dozen and a half spices.

37:58And it's such an interesting blend of things that happen together. It's not like a French pate where you're whipping fat into it. It actually isn't like that at all. There's no extra fat other than some clarified butter, some ghee that we add to it. but we poach the the chicken uh we take that out we cool it and then in that same fortified broth we're cooking the grains and lentils and everything else and i think normally they would just mash it all together and you'd eat it right with all the spices but you know to make it slightly more refined i think we take that grain mixture and we puree it in a blender to make almost like a panade or like an emulsion.

38:41We take that creamy, rich emulsion, mix it with the chicken all together and all the spices, and we actually send it through the food mill. And this is like something like I would say I learned from Marco many years ago. The food mill is actually this really simple tool that we use for so many things. Yeah, it's like the utility player. It's just an unsung hero of the kitchen, I think, because it gives you that rustic element that I want in some of these things without detailing the refinement of how we make it. Yeah. And that's not what it's about. It's about, you know, making sure that when I present it to you, that it feels homey and that elegance of rusticity is present.

39:29And that's kind of what we use it for. Tell me about the spicy green salad. because that to me really stuck out the way that you're adding actually heat to like a pretty traditional just by sight a european centered salad yeah very cool dish we we didn't want to keep it um kind of traditional right chicory is so hearty yeah and it stands up to so much that dressing it with a simple vinaigrette didn't feel like it made the right sense Instead, we went the opposite direction and said, let me make it as bold as we can because I think these greens are so hardy, it'll stand up to it well. So it's really very simple.

40:12It's just the fermented pepper paste that we make in-house reduced down as far as we can so it has a really rich umami to it. And then lemon juice and olive oil. Oh, it's a lemon juice. It's not vinegar. Cool. No, it's lemon juice. So it's really a spicy citronette, right? I think to make it a little different, we have these chewy oil cured olives, which I like in there. We have little bits of fruit because that really balances well with the spicy. And then to really make a change, we do something that I learned in India when I was actually there before the pandemic. It's this gunpowder chutney.

40:47You familiar with it? I know the name. I feel like I've had it in the States, but I've been to India one time. I've only ever had it with dosa. With dosas. Dosa, yeah, exactly, dosa. And I called a friend of mine. I was like, listen, I want to make this gunpowdered masala. You know, can we talk about it? And so we talked it through a little bit. And I ended up twisting it and putting some other things in there like, you know, sesame seeds. But really it's a dry roasted lentil. Yeah. That we use a couple of different varieties. is we use these white ordered lentils and then we use some red lentils, which are a little less Indian.

41:25We combine those two, we roast it slowly, and then it has lots of spices, sesame. And then we let it cool and we actually put in the blender and turn it into a powder. And that powder is what we kind of sprinkle on top. But it really gives it this very interesting kind of ethereal, earthy component, which is like super different. Because you've got that with the fermented chili vinaigrette, and it's kind of playing together. It does. And then we add in, like, some fresh, you know, herbs like, you know, parsley and tarragon and a few other things that really just brighten it up. Yeah, spicy green salad is, I mean, Korean cuisine, you see it here and there.

42:07But not with, like, winter greens. Right. Like hearty greens. Yeah, it's getting a little tougher to get the same chicory things. Yeah, what are you going to do in the summer with your salad? Are you going to switch to like bib or, you know, running? I don't know if it could really be the same as the thing. Yeah, we're working on it now, so. Yeah. I like the vinaigrette a lot. It works well with a lot of vegetables, I find. But we're trying to figure it out now. We could talk about this salad for another hour. Tell us a little briefly about Alta Calidad and what the concept is and the type of food you're doing there.

42:46Because I think that's been around longer. Some of our listeners may know it better. Sure. So at Alta Calidad, it's been open since 2016, I think now. Yeah. 16 or 17. I think early 17. It really just started out as, again, like just intended to be a really good neighborhood restaurant in Prospect Heights. And we found this corner space. but also it didn't like it was my first venture back to owning a place in quite a while and I didn't want to over commit to something I couldn't afford if it went south right so I always knew that if something happened at this place like we could fund it yeah my partner and I smart and we don't have many investors right we only have a couple at this point it must be happy it's been You're open to 16.

43:43Like I saw a lot of tacos. Just keep that in mind. You got to sell a lot of tacos. Yeah. A lot of tacos. The margins are not as good. Many tacos. Yeah. It's always intended to be, you know, a creative thinking, I think, Mexican place. Innovative, I guess, to the extent of, you know, how I can blend, I think, harmoniously Mexican and Indian. And we have a lot of Indian touches on that menu. That's cool. A little less so now than I think when we opened. But it's still all very present. There's little things everywhere. I feel like a lot of Mexican restaurants are switching or, you know, bringing flourishes from around the world.

44:24Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, tacos, people like tacos. They crush. Do you have a BD? Is that like, do you do BD and all that? We actually are, we just started, we did for like a quesadilla for quite some time. But it's not like the core of necessarily some of the things we do. But one of our chefs just made a, Isaac made a birria queso. And it's got this short rib with like our queso that we make in-house. It's really, really good. It sounds good. It's really good. Yeah, send that out before the main show. That sounds really good. We're working on the Mexican mezze.

45:03I'm not sure what we're going to call it. So we're trying to figure out something where we can try to kind of get that same experience. You want pickle? You want flatbread? You want, obviously, a spread? Something. Ah, what a fun challenge. I think so. I think it'll be fun because there's a lot of, you know, quesos and guacamole. Chicharron? Exactly. Maybe chicharron to dip in your queso. I think there's some chicharron on that plate. There's definitely some pickle. There has been conversation for sure. Oh, how fun. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. If you're one of those last-minute shoppers, you might know the feeling.

45:37Ideas are running low and the clock is ticking. Here's a fun idea. Aura Frames. Aura Frames is the solution with a gift that feels personal, a little curated, and sent with love. And a gift that can be purchased in no time with a few clicks of the mouse. Aura Frames are great. They sent me one to check out and it was really cool and dumb simple to set up. I loaded photos using the app, and it was displaying them instantly. There are no limits to the amount of photos you can load, and you can customize messages with each photo. And here's the deal. You can preload an Aura frame with photos and have it directly sent to that special person in your life, gift-wrapped and all.

46:18There will be no price tag, and you can include a personalized message. Think about it. All those photos from this past summer's family reunion delivered in a digital frame. That is pretty cool. For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get$35 off Aura's best-selling Carver Matte Frames, named number one by Wirecutter, by using promo code TASTE at checkout. That's A-U-R-A frames dot com, promo code TASTE. The deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout.

46:57Terms and conditions apply. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts. There's big talk about cooking simplicity, but you're usually left with disappointment after smashing that promo code. Now, Clayton, have you ever tried one of those subscription boxes? Yeah, Matt, my friend gave me a code for that one that has all the chopped vegetables and little baggies. I felt like a drug dealer trying to cook dinner. Yeah, man, I have so been there. ButcherBox is a true exception. I was sent a box of premium beef and pork and was blown away by the quality and variety.

47:34There was 100 % grass-fed pasteurized ribeye, tri-tip, and ground sirloin for my favorite at-home smash burger recipe. George Motes, you better watch your back. For pork, they sent me a beautiful center-cut pork loin for slow roasting. I was super impressed, and I haven't even talked about the ribs, which I cooked in my Instant Pot. There was a rub of salt, white pepper, and togarashi, and I had pressure cooked with water and apple cider vinegar. It was incredible. These ButcherBox ribs are amazing. For nearly a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free.

48:11As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free protein in every box for a year, plus$20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. This has been such a pleasure. I really love talking about your story and your two restaurants. Now, I'm a huge fan of your work. I hope you can come back. On This is Taste, we have guests about their starting taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.

48:50Are you ready? Ready. The best fruit? Mangos in India in season. Love that answer. The worst vegetable? Oh, no. I think sea cucumbers. Please go there. It's never been mentioned. I don't know. I don't know. Something about that texture and taste is really, I don't know. It's tough for me. I've always struggled with sea cucumbers. I don't know. That's a great answer. That's out there, I think, unfortunately. But, yes, you really have to be in a specific place for it, I guess. It's your mindset. What is your typical breakfast? It's pretty simple. I think cottage cheese and like a spoonful of almond butter or something like that.

49:29That is great. So cottage cheese for breakfast. That's, yeah, very small. I try not to eat anything until a little bit later. Yeah. But it's usually, I try to make sure it's something that's, not too much sugar or something like that. What about coffee? Are you doing any caffeination? Coffee and oat milk, no sugar. Oat milk, no sugar. All right. The best dessert? That's a tough one. I would probably say Bananas Foster. Oh, wow. The best dessert. Amazing. And what makes it so good? You know, the problem is gulab jamun is kind of the king of dessert, too. Gulab jamun. Well, it's conflicted. Gulab jamun.

50:07Maybe there's a world for it. Explain that a bit because I had it in Mumbai. It was incredible. Gulab jamun, you know, they're just like it's an Indian donut. It's soaked in a rosewater syrup. For dessert, we do that at Wayward Fair, except it's a canelé instead. And saffron and cardamom. It's ill. So good. King of dessert. Is there a restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead? Bizou. Tell me about it. And Bizou, I used to work there for Loretta Keller. I absolutely loved it. Yeah. Yeah. Where was that at? San Francisco. Yeah, it was SF. When you're craving fast food, where are you going?

50:42It's a place in Louisville. It's called Ollie's Trolley. And it literally is like a caboose on a train, like a trolley. car kind of thing. It's in the middle of a parking lot. There's not much around it, really. And they have just simple burgers that they use the Oli Spice. Any Louisvillian's going to know about it. But they use this Oli Burger Spice, and it's got very strange things in it. I actually don't know what's in it, but there's definitely celery salt and onion powder, garlic powder, caraway, a few different things. And then they season their french fries with the same thing. Oh, cool.

51:22They had the utility player. It's really good. And it all comes to your mouth. Yeah, unheard of. Your favorite city outside of America to visit for food? For food, I'd say Lucknow, where my mom's from. Yeah. Yeah. What's it like there? You know, my name and like Nawab, it has a very long history in Lucknow. And I would say I've been there many times with my mother, and I've been fortunate enough to kind of eat around a lot, around that town where she grew up. So I think I was introduced to it. But there's just a real richness, I think, culturally and otherwise, I think, with the food in that area.

52:02That's cool. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Favorite sandwich, I'd probably say a French dip. Nice. Are you making it yourself or is there a restaurant that does it? No, we make it. We've actually been trialing them at the restaurant for some other stuff. So I would probably say French dip. So what's important about the jus, like the actual dip? You know, it's funny. So the jus was a big conversation point lately. It's the most important part. It's very important. Richness and viscosity is what we came away. It can't be too watery. It can't be too loose. It has to be able to really stick to it.

52:39Yep. Great call. The bread has to be crunchy enough to where it isn't confused with like a cheesesteak or something. Should you be able to drink the jus straight? I think it should be like not quite light like a consomme, but a little heartier. So, yes, you should be able to take a swig of it. That's what I'm saying. Because like some of the jus you'll get and it's like inedibly salty. No, it's, yeah. You don't want to. So we were struggling with the salt component because it's all based on the drippings of the meat that were already seasoned. Right, right. So we're like, well, we don't want to make beef stock necessarily specifically for this.

53:15So we got to figure it out. Yeah, figure it out because you got to use what you're getting. Well, I'm going to try that out. That sounds great. I'll turn it off. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Appreciate it.

53:27Javier Cabral, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you? Oh, man. You know, this week I finally feel like I'm coming up for air after, you know, more than 40 days of nonstop coverage of ICE's siege of Los Angeles and especially how it pertains to our food culture here. Well, let's just start there. You know, you are the editor of LA Taco. And, you know, before these current events, you know, LA Taco was covering the culture and the food culture of Los Angeles, definitely reporting about your community, but known as a food publication mostly but over the past couple months la taco has become an invaluable resource for reporting on ice activity in los angeles and i'm just uh i'm thrilled to talk to you and just hear about what what's happening in your community and i just want to ask at first like how how are you doing and how is the community doing so that's a it's a big question two questions two big questions uh how i'm doing i i you know i've it's it's pretty it's crazy you know i've been doing this for i've been you know writing for for living for 20 years so i've developed a system of um you know just handling deadlines and being amused by them and not and not uh you know not get overwhelmed by them but uh but in this case it was so many tips were were were coming in uh like so fast so like from all you know from our emails from our dms on instagram from from you know just people texting me like people like on the street yelling at me that it just it just it was like another level of of uh of demand for for news so uh you know it was it was i personally had developed new strategies for for dealing with with the with the load of uh you know this just people of information of everyone new stories uh and then how is everyone doing i think everyone in la right now they're breathing a sigh of relief but it's it's a temporary one because it really does feel like we're in the eye of the storm right now with this temporary restraining order that actually has made a difference uh in the racial profiling of a lot of uh undocumented Street vendors, including a lot of food vendors in LA, we are seeing it was almost like overnight, it all came to a screeching halt out of nowhere.

55:59So it feels like in a weird, you know, black mirror twilight zone situation where it's like a like a false sense of peace. But you know, I'm pretty sure that everyone here will take it. Yeah, I'm heartened to hear that. But I know you're being cautious because things can change overnight, literally. Javier, when you receive a tip, either from email or DM, how do you go into action at LA Taco with your team to report on ICE activities, the way that the street vendors in the food community and others are being affected? Because I think you're doing something very important. It's a documentation of what is happening to individual stories.

56:42They're not always holistic stories. They're like really detailed and personal accounts. So the way that we reacted to all these waves of nonstop, hundreds of tips from every different, from our tip hotline, I'm sorry, our tips email, our personal emails, like everything I said earlier, it was an instinctual reaction to covering as best as we can. And when this first started, it was only four full timers at LA Taco. You know, it's me, it's Hadley Tomeki, who is our co-founder and my deputy editor, and Alexis Olivier Ray, who's our investigative reporter, and then Janet Villafana, who is our community reporter, multimedia.

57:30and uh you know some of these things were happening so fast that i just uh i just in my in my gut i just knew that i had to take this very risky approach of uh of actually going against everything that you know we think is the way to be sustainable in journalism and local journalism which is paywalls which is which is subscriptions and i just told the team like hey everyone we need to just get this information out there because we are a service publication uh you know we do provide services to the community and it's like we can't get it out fast enough so we need to just do videos and it seemed like a weird thing at first but it just seemed like you know you know like that feeling i call it like your journalistic sixth sense your your your gut feeling of you know there's certain there's certain things that you have to act on even though it may go against the the written rules of of certain things like that's what I decided to do.

58:26And lo and behold, it's really worked out for us to the point where a year ago, we actually had to furlough our staff because we just ran out of money straight up because we aren't an independent publication and we have no nonprofit safety net. And we just hit a lull. It was the lull that was expected because if you're a journalism nerd or if you work in this industry you you know we all knew that with the new ai summaries on google and how that was going to overnight kill journalism um and you know we we got the brunt hit of that so it was expected but it still sucked and then you know who would have thought that like uh you know the in 2025 the solution to us becoming almost sustainable uh with an asterisk is uh was actually giving away all of our work on instagram for free right and then uh the hope was of course and of course giving the information to the community and making it free and available.

59:21But also you were hoping that there'd be some new subscriptions, right? People would support you in a patronage model or just to read all your other terrific work that's paywalled to get there. Did that net out? It's netting out right now, man. Yeah, I remember last year when we furloughed our staff, our magical number is 5 ,000 memberships, which in a city and I'm sorry, in a county of Los Angeles, which is home to 10 million people, it doesn't seem like that much. But at the same time, it's really hard to just get people to click outside of, you know, doom scrolling and to direct them to a platform.

1:00:02And so, you know, the 5000 number last year seems so distant. It seems so unattainable. Like, you know, we were trying everything. But as you know, journalism and media is changing at the speed of light and and uh you know everything that we thought we knew over the last decade or so or two decades like you know it's just nothing was working so uh you know it was it was an it was a risky move but i don't know i think you know the one truth that has prevailed uh fortunately is is you know show don't tell so we just kept showing consistent work consistent videos that that our community our readership our viewerships appreciated and we started to also break through to outside of our echo chamber of followers.

1:00:46And we started to get famous people that were commenting. And I was like, what the hell? People are watching, people are viewing. So it was almost like embracing this big, scary algorithm that so many journalists, or legacy journalists, I should say, were so scared of. And now it's a different contextual viewpoint. and uh and and now it's it's it's helping us and we're actually at 4800 members now oh my god 200 left to get that initial left yeah 200 left yeah and it's and it's like yeah it was like trust me it's it's been it's been a very emotional roller coaster all around just because obviously it's affecting you know the community that i grew up with and that i'm a part of and also uh you know but also seeing that uh you know last last year i took it personal as the editor-in-chief right I kind of help it, even though I try to be objective and I know, I know all the data out there.

1:01:40I just felt like I felt, I failed my team. I failed my team and I, you know, and I had survivor scale because I was the only one that was left on the payroll to try to figure this out with our publisher. And, and then, you know, and then now a year later, you know, we're at the cusp of, we freaking hired, we hired like a part-time editor. I'm a part-time social media assistant, you know, like last week, this week. So it's just been, and we hired another full-timer last week too. So it's like everything that we're making, we're reinvesting it right back into the platform and to use this momentum for sure.

1:02:12Well, I'm really happy to hear that, Javier, that you're close to that goal. And I think Tasteless listeners should support LA Taco not just because of the local work in Los Angeles, but because of some of the wider view reporting. And I think one of the pieces that I'm going to link to in the show notes that I think is very important for all Americans in this current situation is a really clear guide. It's a piece of service journalism. And it talks about in detail – it reports in great detail what to do if you're stopped by ICE in your car, in a bus, and a train. I mean really broad transportation options.

1:02:53So I think that's good information for all Americans, all listeners of the show. Now, I think people should read that and kind of study it. But in general, are there some guide rails that you would suggest to our listeners? Yes. I mean, it's an interesting time to be putting out these stories because these were accepted truths in the Constitution and rights. But, you know, as we've all seen multiple times over and over again, in video documentation of this and multiple articles, you know, now at this point, all over the world, because people from all over the world came to document this moment.

1:03:37You know, if you're out there in the streets, you saw people from like yesterday, for example, we had like someone from the Czech Republic who was in like who was shattering us in our meeting. So, yes, I mean, the basic essentials is, you know, just remain, you can stay silent and not have to say anything, no matter how much bullying or no matter how antagonistic, you know, a federal officer wants to be. And the other thing is, you know, one thing that I want to make very clear is that LA Taco has worked extremely diligently to confirm that there have been no ICE raids inside of restaurants in LA.

1:04:18So I'll repeat that again. ICE has not entered a restaurant or a kitchen in this 45 days later or almost, you know, what, two months later. and I you know that's that goes against what a lot of you know if you grew up watching like we just did a retrospective on a on a Cheech and Chong movie uh two days ago because we you know we also still celebrate that part of LA film culture too as much as we can even though it's dying but uh we you know we you know if if you're familiar with that movie classic movie there was a very funny scene or at the time funny of like you know uh ICE or or Department of Homeland Security going to a restaurant and all the cooks running out the kitchen.

1:04:58And it was a very funny scene back then. But yeah, exactly. But that's not happening. What's happening right now is public spaces is the name of the game. So if you're in a public space, up until this federal order was, this federal temporary restraining order was granted, they would just grab you in the street if you had an indigenous looking face. And we also published a really good article on knowing how to navigate a consensual stop, which is what federal officers are stopping you for. So a consensual stop essentially means, you know, you're walking, imagine the scenario of that you're walking on the sidewalk to like, you know, park your car from, you parked your car and you're walking to a restaurant or you're going to go grab some tacos and then like a SUV with tinted windows and like, you know, unmarked tags just stops you and asks you, hey, are you from here?

1:05:53even by you looking at that person at the officer or the person who's report who's at least saying that they're an officer if you look or if you respond in in in any kind of way you're that that's called a consensual encounter and uh and you're you're giving them access to them talking to you or to them you know asking you questions if you're you know are you born here are you but you don't have to answer any of those questions and that's and that's what we try to make clear. And all of our iStories that are resources like this, like this story on consensual encounters, how to navigate if you're stopped in public transportation or in a train or in a car, these are all free on LA Taco too.

1:06:36We remove the paywall on these because we trust our gut in a lot of these decisions. And we run the site very horizontally. Yes, I am the editor-in-chief, but everyone's input is just as important. So if someone speaks up and says, hey, it doesn't feel right to charge this, to charge for this article, like, you know, I'm going to listen and, you know, we're going to talk about it. And most likely we're probably going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they're probably right. So yes, all of our ICE coverage on the site is free. So you can, you know, send it, read it. And right now we're in the process of translating everything into Spanish as well.

1:07:12Wonderful to hear. And more of the reason to support. Let's go back to the kitchen example. What's the message to restaurant workers then? Maybe not just in Los Angeles, but nationwide. I guess public spaces are being targeted. Restaurants are not being targeted. So what's the message? One thing that I've seen is how quick the restaurant owners here have unified together against any kind of differences they must have had. And to establish courses and lessons and the essentials of defending yourself against ICE if that moment ever came. So, yes, I mean, the crucial tip, I would say, if you own a restaurant and if you want to be double protected, if you want to be super protected is to have a clearly marked employees only sign, you know, in your kitchen or in any kind of office setting or any kind of like if it's if you have like an open kitchen, you know, you can still put an employees only in the access point to enter that area.

1:08:15And by having a clear sign that says employees only or staff only or private entry or whatever kind of sign that you have on there, that's a way of delineating that this is private property and a federal officer cannot enter this property. And you have the right as a restaurant owner to stop them. The only asterisk to that is if they have a warrant signed by a judge. But you've got to remember, in the heat of the moment, it's really hard to, especially if you wear glasses or if you're stressed out or if you're having anxiety about the situation. It's going to be really hard to ask for that. And we've also seen that a lot of these federal agents claim to have warrants and they show you some kind of paperwork.

1:09:01But we've actually analyzed the videos and took screenshots and actually zoomed in on a lot of these documents. And they're not actual warrants by judges. They're warrants issued by the director of the Department of Homeland Security. So, you know, it's just about asserting your rights, asserting your confidence. And this is a big moment, I would say, for allyship in the U.S. If you are not an undocumented person, but if you deeply care for them, you know, this is your chance to use your privilege to help them and to defend. because chances are if you're a white-skinned person or a white person, you're not going to get messed with.

1:09:42So to recap, staying silent is your right. If you operate a restaurant, to have very clear signage that says employees only and also to look at the documents and look for the warrant that's important to do. And, of course, you acknowledge in the heat of the moment even the most stoic person is going to be affected by this stress involved with seeing an officer in their space. But these tips should be kept in mind. Yes. And one more crucial one that can save you a lot of headaches later when you start the litigation process, which everyone is starting to do right now. So I'm starting to see the waves of this, right?

1:10:28In the words of this, it was also dramatic and violent when it was first starting. but now you're starting to see a lot of lawsuits happening and and and these lawsuits are they they do work i know it's it's like a funny capitalistic thing to to like oh our lawsuits can you sue your way out of the situation but i want to say like you know it was because of all these lawsuits that all these organizations and cities signed on to which is what made the federal judge or at least assisted in her decision uh to to grant this temporary restraining order so when that moment comes, the best thing you can do is to, you know, it's like common law, uh, and this to document, it's to document everything.

1:11:04And you do have the right to 100%, like, like, right, which, you know, again, can be, can, you can be intimidated on this or try to scare you or in the moment of, in a moment of, of the heat of the situation, you know, an agent may try to swipe your phone away from you, but you can 100 % document, film the whole damn thing with your phone or use your surveillance cameras in your restaurant. And federal officers do not have the right to ask for that footage and also do not have the right to confiscate your phone or do not have the right to ask you to delete that footage. Again, they may try because you have a high school to work.

1:11:44We've also confirmed at LA Taco, which is crazy, that they're offering as much as a $25 ,000 or$50 ,000 signing bonuses and then starting you out at more than$100 ,000 with the high school diploma to join ICE as an agent. And that's because we all know that this quote unquote big beautiful bill was signed and it is now ICE and Border Patrol has a lot more money. So you're seeing this and what we're seeing is that there's been rumors and we have not been able to verify this of like, you know, quote unquote, bounty hunters. But what we have been able to confirm through community patrols, highly organized volunteers that form hotlines, which are police alternatives, is that, you know, they, these federal officers that are in the streets right now, they don't, they don't move their bodies around like someone who has any kind of formal training, like a police officer.

1:12:43They don't, you know, they do things very out of, like not not very calculated and and you can tell like a lot of the you know from what my interviews i got to go on a right on a right along with the biggest one called union del barrio and you know and he's the leader of this and uh and he was telling me you can just tell him the way they're that like you can see the fear in their eyes like he's like come on you're you're telling me that like if you if you accept the sign the sign on bonus from like somewhere in the middle west and you get a sign to go you know do an ice raid on like the middle of compton or the middle of watts which are these heavily hood areas in LA that have a lot of gang presence.

1:13:21And if you've seen movies about LA, there's a little bit of fear there. And then our biggest story, LA Talk, which was crazy, is that, I'm sorry, one of the only federal officers that worked for the Department of Homeland Security, that actually was the only one that did not wear any kind of face protection or didn't try to conceal their face in any way. This guy ended up coming to Long Beach, getting really drunk at a yard house, following a woman in the restroom, into the restroom. And then when police showed up, when he was confronted by the security guard, he tried to, he brandished his gun to the police.

1:14:04And he got really drunk and he was just being a creep. And this was a federal agent that worked for DHS that we had documented. Clearly, that actually was one of the ones who detained an American citizen. because another tip that we're working to verify ASAP and it's looking like it's true is that federal officers are getting paid per person that they detain. Wow, that's something I've never read. That's like archaic. I mean, that's like... Yeah, and we just got this tip yesterday and we broke it in our Daily Memo show on Instagram and you can actually hear proof uh you can so this is uh today is uh july 24th thursday so if you look at the daily memo for wednesday july 23rd on our interim account uh you can there's audible proof of uh an american citizen who was detained and even though he was shouting i'm american i'm american i was born here uh you can hear the federal officers uh because the phone kept recording saying i can smell that I can smell that bonus right now, which is crazy.

1:15:18Yeah. So again, it's a wild time to be living in right now. But all I can say is that you don't have to feel helpless. You don't have to feel sad about this. There are many things you can do to be active and support the community that you love. Well, that's a good segue to the work you do outside of the news cycle, which is the taco scene in Los Angeles. And I think listeners of our show seek out Los Angeles for the best in the world. And I mean, tell me a little bit about how you can balance all this news, this news cycle with staying true to your principle of writing about Taqueria's and Taqueria's and all the wonderful work being done in the kitchens of Los Angeles.

1:16:10Yeah, this news cycle really was bewildering to me as an editor-in-chief because I've had the fortune and misfortune, depending on how you look at it, to also cover a lot of big moments in history, like the Black Lives Matter movement here in LA, the pandemic, the catastrophic fires. you know these are three big historic moments in LA that I've covered and one thing that if you what's the one thing that happens with all these is that the new cycle was relatively like once these things happen you know once like the vaccine you know once the vaccine for COVID-19 happened once these fires you know subsided once these you know once the Black Lives Matter movement you know had a couple of weeks of protests and demonstrations like it all it all kind of fizzled out right it was maybe a couple of weeks long the pandemic one was a bit of an exception but you know everything had its cycle and this ice cycle has been has been roaring like on like it hasn't like it's been almost two months now and and and all of our top articles are still ice because so we're still hitting that we're still listening to our readers and seeing the annoying and we're we're knowing that that's what they want to read but also what we're also starting to see is like the direct economic onslaught that these that these ice raids have caused on the city of los angeles and so many restaurants you know whether it's a you know high-end restaurant or whether it's like a you know a mom and pop you know the hole in the wall in the corner you know a lot of these restaurants are suffering all over la i mean as it is it was already so hard to to to be sustainable here as a food business because you know the high cost of high cost of living the minimum wage, the rising cost in food.

1:17:57And, you know, and this was just another thing that, like, was impeding that, you know, just being to have a successful business. And so, you know, we also can't ignore that because we're so directly connected to LA's informal economy of street vending. But we're also, you know, have so many, you know, friends and contacts in the food industry that are chefs or restaurant owners or whatever. And they communicate to us, they tell us directly and so now we're like okay now as an editor-in-chief i'm making i'm making the editorial decision to to start covering these these uh you know like restaurants again and start bringing attention to like to which restaurants are on the cusp of shutting down because they just haven't had business uh in the last two months uh real talk like you know a lot just a lot of business came to a standstill if it wasn't because if it wasn't because of a lot of a lot of customers were either too scared to come out to eat or were either too emotionally distraught to come out and pretend like life's okay.

1:18:54It was also because of a lot of their workforce, which does depend on a lot of undocumented labor, were also too scared to come out and work. So I've been saying that we're going to see the effects of these ice raids on LA's restaurant industry for, I would say, for years to come. Because, you know, we already had so many things against the restaurants here. We had the fires just this year alone. We had the fires. We had, you know, the trickling, you know, of the diminished business because of all the SAG-AFTRA and the Hollywood strikes, which was a big, you know, a big way for a lot of restaurants to make money through all the caterings.

1:19:37So those two dried up. And then now we're seeing this now too, whereas some restaurants were barely bouncing back from all the financial wills from the pandemic. So, you know, we have to keep the show, the show must keep the show goes on. We have to keep reporting on this. So we are actually starting to report more food stories. And, you know, it's we're going to we're going to do our best. I mean, I don't know. We take it day by day, story by story, because it's again, you never know when when this, you know, this tantrum politics can can like fire back up again. and we have to be at the ready and we are at the ready like yesterday we had a team meeting and we're like okay things are coming down right now but like you know let's just stay ready for for whenever this happens but like i said uh you know the local police department has has also you know really i would say calmed down too because there aren't as many protests you know i'm sure you saw that like you know uh almost all the marines and almost all the or half of the half Half of the Marines and half of the National Guard, you know, was deployed back out of L.A.

1:20:40because, you know, there's not much going on anymore in terms of protests and demonstrations. You know, but we're still monitoring very, very carefully. And luckily, because we've been covering these marginalized communities for the last 20 years, we really do have ICE all over the county. Well, Javier Cabral, thank you so much for bringing deep context and reporting on this historical event. And it's important to keep supporting LA Taco. Again, I'm linking to the website in the show notes. You can support becoming a subscriber. And man, I wish you all the best. I hope you can come back and give us some updates.

1:21:17And I am really hopeful for Los Angeles right now. Thank you so much, Matt. Appreciate it. And our mayor and a lot of the general consensus that we've been seeing is that LA was an experiment on this, right? it was made to uh what the the such severe ice rage ice raids was was an experiment to see how how local people would help residents would react how local politicians would react and you know with this new injection of a whole lot of money into uh you know the the into the dhs uh you know So it's not, I wouldn't say it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary if this direct style of immigration enforcement is replicated in other major cities in the U.S.

1:22:06I mean, I know New York saw some action. I know Portland continues to have some action. Chicago, but who knows? Again, what we all saw in L.A. can very well happen in any other major city. Well, we'll leave it at that. I thank you so much for joining. Thank you so much, Matt.

1:22:28This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.