In short
Podcast Summary: This Is TASTE - Episode 640: Tariffs, Trends, and Keeping a Brand Spicy with Fly By Jing’s Jing Gao
Podcast Overview
- Title: This Is TASTE
- Hosts: Aliza Abarbanel and Matt Rodbard
- Focus: Engaging conversations about food, cooking, and culture with notable figures in the food industry.
Episode Recap
Guest
Jing Gao, Founder of Fly By Jing
- Brand Overview: Fly By Jing has garnered attention for its products, particularly its chili crisp, positioning itself as a leader in the market for modern Asian flavors.
Key Themes and Discussions
- Brand Growth and Expansion
- Current Status: Fly By Jing products are available in over 12,000 stores, including major retailers like Walmart and Costco.
- Product Development: Expansion into new product lines including sun-dried noodles designed for easy consumption alongside their sauces.
- Market Dynamics
- Consumer Awareness: Many consumers are still unfamiliar with chili crisp and its uses. The aim is to educate and integrate these flavors into everyday meals.
- Retail Partnerships: Collaborating with retailers to build brand presence and ensure product visibility has been crucial for success.
- Industry Challenges
- Tariff Impacts: Gao discusses the impact of fluctuating tariffs on their supply chain and pricing strategies, emphasizing a proactive rather than reactive approach to long-term planning.
- Sourcing and Production: While all ingredients are sourced from China, there are considerations for production location to maintain quality while managing costs effectively.
- Cultural Impact
- Changing Palates: The episode discusses how increased exposure to varied flavors enhances consumers' culinary experiences and expectations, making them seek out more diverse offerings.
- Future Trends: Gao hints at future product innovations focusing on convenience, quality, and potentially expanding beyond chili-based products.
Additional Segment
Hailee Catalano and Chuck Cruz
- A live conversation about food trends, including:
- Unique food collaborations.
- The concept of "softboy foods" which emphasize mindful and seasonal cooking.
- Insight into their culinary inspirations and the popularity of beach sandwiches.
Closing Thoughts
- Gao emphasizes the importance of expanding culinary awareness and accessibility through their products.
- Both segments highlight the evolving landscape of food culture and consumer preferences, reinforcing the idea that food is a continuous journey of discovery.
Key Takeaways
- Expansion and Accessibility: Fly By Jing is committed to making Sichuan flavors more accessible to a broader audience through innovative products.
- Navigating Challenges: The dynamic landscape of trade tariffs and consumer expectations requires flexibility and strategic planning.
- Cultural Shifts: There is a growing acceptance and demand for diverse flavors in American cuisine, indicating a shift in the culinary landscape.
Resources
- Buy: The Book of Sichuan Chili Crisp
- Subscribe: This Is TASTE on [Apple Podcasts](https://apple.com), [Spotify](https://spotify.com), [YouTube](https://youtube.com)
- Learn More: Visit [tastecooking.com](https://tastecooking.com) for more insights and episodes related to cooking and food culture.
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This summary encapsulates the key discussions from the podcast, highlighting important themes and insights while providing a structure that allows for easier navigation and understanding of the content.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:28This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. I think this is broader than even just Americans. I think for everybody, the more exposure you have to newness, to something that's different, the more it kind of expands your mind, expands your consciousness, expands your palate, right? And so I'm of the belief that once you expand your palate, you can't go back. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbarg.
0:59Fly by Jing is one of the most exciting brands in food, and we were lucky to have the company's founder, Jing Gao, return to the studio for a great conversation. We talk about the company's incredible trajectory and how growth and expansion into new product lines comes with its challenges. We also tap into what it's like to make chili crisp in China and how the yo-yoing tariff dynamic keeps the company on their toes. I have so much respect for what Jing is building at Fly by Jing and hope you enjoy this conversation.
1:32Jing Gao, welcome back to This Is Taste. How are you? I'm great. It's great to be back. We had you here in 2022 when your book came out and a lot has happened with Fly by Jing. And I mean, at that point, it was already fully formed and in every target. And it was part of the lexicon and Chili Crisp was really growing. But two years later, wanted to have you in to catch up. How are you? I'm doing amazing. Love your products. I love you as a creator, as an author. I mean, there's so many dimensions to your career. We'll go over many of them. But I want to start and talk about the grocery side. You're in 12 ,000 stores now.
2:09And I mean, you have your fans and you now have these amazing noodles that I think we were talking about the last episode a little bit. In theory, now they're fully formed and out there. I want to know about the current grocery scene for you. And like, I'm always pressing for expansion when I talk to founders like yourself. I'm just curious where you want to take it. Mm hmm. Yeah. So it's really exciting being in our industry because, yeah, things are always evolving. They're always changing. You know, six years ago when I first started Fly by Jing, the landscape looks dramatically different from what it looks like.
2:48today, right? At that point, you know, I actually launched it because I wasn't seeing the kind of products that, you know, I wanted to see on store shelves and, you know, the modern Asian flavors that, you know, we feel like are so part of our lives today. It really wasn't around just six years ago. So it's been really exciting to be a part of that and to kind of, you know, help to spearhead that movement. So, you know, like you said, we are in 12 ,000 doors today and that number keeps changing, keeps growing. We last year actually rolled out, you know, across 4 ,000 Walmart stores. Right. So that was a huge moment for us because all of a sudden now we're reaching people who we have never reached before and who might be seeing us for the very first time on shelf.
3:35Right. Whereas before we built this like brand on social, on digital. Yeah. Direct to consumer. I mean, that was a big launch. Exactly. And so we were able to tell a rich brand story and create a rich brand world online. And now, you know, we've evolved to a point where, you know, actually the first point of contact is not through that anymore. So how do you then convey to someone like who you are, what it is, and why they should pick you up, right? And so, yeah, so it's a constant kind of like evolving landscape, and I think that's what makes it exciting. There's always a new challenge, you know.
4:09So as part of our core, you know, our core is still the sauces, right? These are the flavors that we have built our foundation on, and these are super high quality, deeply complex, rich, flavorful products inspired by my hometown in Sichuan. But we've also evolved since then to allow people to consume these more easily and kind of meet them where they are. So that was the impetus for launching the noodles. So we just launched our sun-dried noodles in Whole Foods, and it's about to go into many more stores. But they carry our sauces with them, so you're able to enjoy them easily. As we've reached more and more people all over the country, we've realized most of them actually still have not tried a chili crust.
5:04They don't know what it is, and they don't know how to eat it. But they all know what pasta and noodles are, right? So we've just found different ways to kind of incorporate our flavors and allow people to enjoy them more easily and accessibly. What an incredible opportunity for like a gateway, right? Like everyone knows what a noodle package is. We've been living off of ramen since ever. But now you have your flavor pouches within the noodles next to the chili crisp line, the crunch. Exactly. Exciting. I mean, what about Costco? Yeah. I mean, I just like made my heart sing when I saw it in Costco.
5:40Yeah. Yeah. So Costco has been a really great partner with us. You know, Costco is going to have an interesting one because we actually started working with them when we were very small. And they are known for these like huge, you know, household names that they have huge mega packs for. But also they highlight, you know, local producers and, you know, because they're all about the treasure hunt experience is what they call it. Right. And so sometimes you go to Costco, your local Costco, you'll find something and you might never see it there again. But like it's part of the experience of like discovery.
6:13So, yeah, so we've been lucky to have been in and out of like Costco all over the country over the last few years. I love that. Let's talk about just Chili Crisp in general. And I think I was at the Fancy Food Show speaking with some Whole Foods executives. And it's obvious that they're always searching for the next, the next greatest flavor trend. And, you know, Chili Crisp has been trending for a while. You're very much a pioneer in the category. My question is, is how do you keep the buyer side interested in Fly By Jing as they're seeking out to find the next Chili Crisp, literally on their mood boards and mission boards to find the next this and that because of the success?
6:52But I would say just reading this, it's got to be challenging to stay relevant. Yeah, that's a great question. I look at Chili Crisp as a form factor, right? It's a form factor. It's a way to enjoy flavors. But at the root of it, like what you're enjoying is that flavor experience. And so we, you know, we are rooted in our foundation of being rooted in like Sichuan, this rich culinary tradition, right, this heritage. But then also we always look at, OK, how do we make sure we're meeting people like today for how they eat and how they live? And so that's kind of how we approach product innovation.
7:33Of course, we always talk with, we're constantly in conversation with our retailers who are very much like to the ground where they know what, you know, they're anticipating what the consumer wants and needs. And so it's also an open dialogue with them of like, OK, so what are you seeing and how can we help to meet that demand? And ultimately, though, like I think, you know, as a founder and, you know, as someone who started this company, basically wanting to fulfill my own need and desire to, you know, just what I want. There's also an element of that as well. So following my own intuition, what do I, you know, what brings me joy?
8:12And, you know, I think that that would bring others as well. So, yeah. But so I feel like, you know, Chili Crisp, it's kind of a crazy phenomenon to think of. Well, I and I and I really love the answer. It was a difficult question because I'm not trying to say Chili Crisp is over with big air quotes and like people are moving on. I think like directionally, the buyers are just looking for trend. But I think in general, we're talking about real people. It's just starting. and I think it says a lot about America, the fact that you're now in 12 ,000 doors, you're at Costco and Walmart and that this product that covering food I've been doing for 20 years, even 10 years ago, it was considered almost like a food, like a stunt food almost.
8:57Like it was something that you would eat when you wanted like something tingly and it was like this thing that was, of course, I'm saying it from the general population, of course, many people were cooking with chili crisps, But it's now people are cooking all over the map with it. What does that say about America? This like this embrace of this product that 10 years ago was considered very niche in like the Asian grocery market. I think this is broader than even just Americans. I think for everybody, the more exposure you have to newness, to something that's like different, the more it kind of expands your mind, expands your consciousness, expands your palate.
9:34Right. And so I'm of the book. belief that once you expand your palate, you can't go back, right? Like once you've tasted something truly amazing, you really can't go back to eating like basic plain stuff. And so that's kind of been our approach, right? We kind of viewed like, you know, through this vehicle of Chili Crisp, I was helping people to, you know, expose people to these flavors that were so deep and rich from my hometown that they never would have had access to before. And through that, now, you know, we're seeing that it's becoming a part of people's like culinary lexicon their their palette has been awakened and expanded and now they're like they're asking what's next yeah right and so i think like we've kind of opened this portal now for us and a platform to be able to introduce even more you know and what is what is that what does that look like you know it's still evolving yeah but um it like i said earlier it's rooted in tradition it's like we're lucky to have such a rich wealth of culinary heritage to draw from.
10:34But at the same time, like, how can we push it forward? How can we make it modern? And, you know. So you've got a whiteboard with some ideas in your office. And, of course, the launch of Noodles is big for you, and that's probably going to take up a lot of your energy this year. Hint at what you're thinking. I don't want to spoil a great show. I'm not asking you directly to tell me about your product roadmap, but do tell us a little bit. I can't wait to share more with you. Great. But it's literally in the works right now. I've been super inspired over the last like six months alone, even just my travels to Asia and just really, you know, seeing kind of what's happening on the ground there.
11:16What's, you know, because I do feel like in Asia, in a lot of ways, they're 10, 15 years ahead of us. So I spend a lot of time in Seoul. It's absolutely that. Absolutely. It's where they're living in the future. And so it's cool to kind of get a glimpse into the future. Right. Right. And, you know, again, it's like, how do we I'm always thinking about at Fly by Jing, our purpose statement is to evolve culture through taste by expanding palates and minds. So I'm always thinking about how do we keep pushing? How do we keep pushing it forward? But in a way that makes sense for here. Right. You can't just take something directly from Asia and apply it.
11:50You know, it's not going to work. And so, you know, some of the trends that, you know, we are seeing and that retailers are kind of giving us feedback on is convenience. You know, what like how do you make more convenient meal solutions for people who don't have time and are often not interested in cooking? I mean, sadly, that is kind of the reality. It's real talk. I mean, we really we champion home cooking here. We have cookbooks surrounding us. But truly, when you want to make dinner at 9 p.m., it's not always going to be that big recipe. Totally. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, people have multitudes.
12:31And so even even those people that do have I mean, I have like 50 or 100 cookbooks at home. But like, how often do I actually have time to sit down and, you know, prepare? Right. So. So, yeah, convenience, but like quality and, you know, incredible, you know, flavors that are authentic and international. I think just people want variety as well. Do you leave chili completely? Does chili, do you enter like? I mean, if you mean like spice and heat, like, yeah, not everything that we do is going to be spicy. Definitely not. Actually, we have a new flavor of noodles coming out right now and actually two more to follow that are not spicy.
13:14Yeah. But they're super unique in their own way, right, and super umami and deep, flavorful, rich. so yeah so so we we are expanding beyond the chili crisp universe of course and you already have like it's clear just by looking at the noodles and just looking at all the sauces it's definitely not always the chili crisp but i guess i was thinking like i mean even like pastry dessert like that category i mean i mean i wouldn't rule out other types of categories yeah the way that i would think about it is uh you know it's interesting we're in the asian aisle of the It used to feel really limiting that it's like, oh, God, like you're just putting every Asian culture, every Asian food into one four foot aisle.
14:00Right. Whereas meanwhile, pasta sauce has 26 feet, you know, or, you know, any ketchup and mayonnaise literally have cereal has like 45. Exactly. So it used to feel really limiting. Now, I will say that a lot of retailers have started expanding their set. So we have heard from retailers like Whole Foods, Target, like they're expanding it. You know, it's still not, it's still far away from, you know, pasta sauce. But what's interesting about that set is normally within the kind of CPG, consumer packaged goods world, you kind of want to stay a little focused. You don't want to go from like shelf stable to frozen to fresh.
14:42Completely agree. Right? Because you're adding complexity into your business. your complexity in terms of your supply chain, but also who you're selling it to. There's different buyers across the different stores. However, within Asian, because they like to bundle this all together, it is one buyer. It's one aisle, right? So it kind of is now an opportunity if you see it through that lens. Okay, so what else could we create that fits into that aisle? Yeah, and I think the general consumers are seeking out the quote-unquote Asian food aisle, And I think four feet is becoming 12 feet in the regular shop rights and the basic grocery stores of the world.
15:21Yes, absolutely. From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière. An exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story. The 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist. Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-starred talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus.
16:05The full program is available at MontrealOnLumiere.com. Presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. Hi there, it's Matt, co-host of the show. We are currently running a This Is Taste listener survey, and we'd love to hear from you. Do you have a guest request? A restaurant you wish we'd visit to talk about on Three Things? What about a lesser-known cookbook author who deserves a spot in our studio chair? You can let us know by clicking the link in our show notes to complete the survey. It will only take a couple minutes, I swear, and will help us continue to make the best show possible.
16:42That's the This Is Taste listener survey. Link in our show notes. I have to ask you about strategics. I asked Andrew from Graza about this. Are you getting lots of calls? Are you getting just like for investment? Because, I mean, your brand is so strong and you're a leader in the industry. People look to you as a guide. What's that like? Thank you. I mean, we've been in touch with them over the years. I think, yeah, we keep them up to date. I mean, they know what's happening. They see the data. They see us at the trade shows and whatnot. But it's not a very constant conversation. But yeah, we see them.
17:24They see us. Yeah, to be clear, too, I'm using super jargony on the show, but strategies are like the big dogs. Yeah, yeah, the big dogs. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, like, we're just building to, you know, create a brand that has longevity and that is really going to shift the culture and the landscape. And, you know, and that's part of the reason why I took investment as well, right, from private equity. It's like, who can help us do that? Like, we don't need to feel like we have to take it all on ourselves. No. And so that's part of the strategic conversation, too, is like who can help you achieve that ultimate goal?
17:58It has to be. I mean, we look at the successful brands and you always ultimately have to have some kind of investment there from PE or from a strategic investment from the big guys. I want to shift and talk about tariffs because it's important to talk about this and you're really qualified to answer this. You know, with the White House yo-yoing their way through this landscape and with the messaging being so inconsistent, how are you, Jing, dealing with this? And in terms of especially with 12 ,000 doors about the cost structure of your products fluctuating from the supply side, I can't imagine that's an easy waking up in the morning and hearing about the latest news.
18:38Yeah. So this has been happening for months now. Right. And like it's not gotten better. And, you know, it it was definitely kind of felt like a roller coaster. Right. In the first few few weeks and kind of in a way you get desensitized to it because the news keeps coming out and it gets crazier and crazier. And so you almost can't ever take like a piece of news as fact, right, or be able to act upon it. So that is a challenge, right, because how do you do long term planning when you're getting inconsistent information constantly? um so i think like the way that we approach it and we try to approach most things is to um not be not uh operate from a place of reaction um and contraction and fear but rather kind of like okay how do we look ahead and how do we understand that everything is constantly in flux everything is cyclical everything changes and you know how do we operate and make decisions for the the ultimate long-term good.
19:48And so, you know, just trying not to make any decisions that's going to have long-term negative impact, such as, you know, make drastic pricing decisions. Yeah. You know. But you kind of have to, in the back of your head at least, when you're talking about 40, 50 % tariffs and your products are made in China wholly. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so one of the things that we have done over the last few years, a few months, is actually as we start thinking about product innovation, right? Like how do we kind of like mitigate our risk, right? Does that mean bringing production to the U.S.? Not necessarily because it may not make sense because, you know, our core products, the differentiator, the essence of it is that all of the ingredients are sourced in Citron, right?
20:36So even if you bring it here, all you're doing is tripling or 10xing the labor costs, but you're not actually, Like you still have to bring in all the ingredients. Yeah, it's an agricultural product that is grown in China with terroir and expertise and a labor pool that it's not just about the cost, but like just a real like skilled people working for you. Exactly. Exactly. But there's other things we can do. We can diversify into other products or form factors or ingredients for new product innovation that still maintains our essence, but, you know, is just broadening, you know, kind of our base.
21:13So there's that. And also just like I think over the last six years, I've been quite conscious of like, you know, building a sustainable organization that has resilience to hopefully weather storms here and there. And I think that's really important. And that goes into your pricing decisions, right? Like making sure that you are actually a profitable company. And it's very difficult for startups to be able to do. But I think, you know, and then you startups are often criticized for their pricing. It's like, oh, my God, how could this be so expensive? Like this big label brand name is like 10x cheaper.
21:57But there's a reason for that, right? So I think to build a business with longevity and sustainability, you really have to consider profitability and just building in that resilience. So we're fortunate to be in a position where we don't have to make any drastic decisions. We are committed to not raising the prices. We actually last year implemented a price decrease of almost 30%. It affects your margin, but if the margin was a place that you liked, you could take a little bit less margin and keep the prices because you need top line revenue to make this thing work. Yeah, yeah. With that being said, we're definitely tightening our belt.
22:36We're not going to spend on anything that's not essential or to our core. Yeah, really great answer. And it's complex. And I'm sorry you're going through it because it feels I have empathy for folks in food who have to deal with overseas productions. Let's go there and talk about what does it look like in China in your facilities where you're making this chili crisp? How are you working with them? I'm sure you're traveling there quite often, which is not a short plane ride. So I credit you for maintaining high quality at this scale. But what's the factory like? Yeah, so we have multiple factories that we work with.
23:15And most of them we've worked with since the very beginning, right? And they've grown alongside us as well in the last six years. And some of them are doing exceptionally well. Like they've grown much faster than us even. And, you know, it's been exciting to be a part of that, you know, a piece of that, you know, puzzle of like kind of helping everyone rise together. Right. One of the benefits to us being carried by these large retailers like Costco's, the Walmart's, like they there are very stringent high standards for food safety, quality control and even like social responsibility, you know, environmental impact.
23:57And so we have done, you know, extensive audits, you know, by international groups of these factories that have, as a result, raised their standards of even just like wage equality, like, you know, all kinds of things within the factory. So for many of these factories, it's been their first time doing that. And so kind of raising their standards to an international level has been helpful. And are there pain points when you're trying to respond to an audit and you're working with a culture that maybe isn't responding to the audit? Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a challenge the first time you do it.
24:34But the good thing about these audits is that they're not meant to be punitive. They're meant to help you evolve and grow. So we've been able to, over time, really meet those standards. But yeah, I mean, you know, without – it's a process and every factory goes through that, you know. So it's not just the Chinese ones, but they're super excited to be able to raise their own standards as well. And so I think they're grateful that because of the relationship with us and then our relationship with our retailers or whoever we partner with, like Disney, for example, they have really high standards as well.
25:12like we are able to like kind of lift up everybody together yeah i mean it helps you get into channels when they have these high standards when you're ahead of it and those standards are changing as we evolve what's it like when you go to china like your own personal travel schedule because i can't imagine it being easy to to get out to the factories with frequency yeah yeah so we try to go um whenever we need to which turns out to be about three to four times a year um that's a lot Yeah, yeah. But it's, you know, it's like, also we've done, you know, during COVID where we couldn't go to China at all.
25:47And we actually did product development by shipping, you know, product back and forth through FedEx. But it's a lot faster sometimes to just get on a plane and go and like do the tasting live and be able to provide feedback live and make adjustments right away. Usually we go for about a week to two weeks. And the factories are pretty, you know, in the countryside or a little bit more remote. So you have to, like, drive out there. And then we try to make it as efficient as possible. Just like, okay, what are we here to do? We're here to approve certain formulas or, you know, new product development.
26:22And everything is kind of prepared before we arrive so that we're just getting down to business. but yeah and then usually like there's a meal or something afterwards I mean the hospitality in Asia is there's nothing like it it used to be they still sometimes do this whenever we would arrive they would have everyone at the factory stand outside and form a line and as soon as you get out of the car they start clapping and they bring me a bouquet of flowers oh that's so cool I mean, it's awkward for you. But my team just finds it hilarious. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so they do stuff like that. And then, like, we'll go out for dinner and it's always, like, a feast and a lot of baijo.
27:08Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, product of Sichuan. Exactly. Legendary product. Yeah. High alcohol content. It's like a Chinese mezcal of sorts. Very nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, in my drinking days, I definitely enjoy some baijo. Yeah. It's beautiful. I like the flavor profile. It's got that smokiness like scotch a little bit like mezcal. Yeah, the fermented kind of like grains. Yeah. It's a really nice one. I mean, thanks for sharing the behind the scenes because I know doing that four times a year is a lot. And this is what makes founders go, like having to be the factory. So once it's made in the factory, how long does it take to get to America and on the shelves?
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27:48So if there's no delays, it's typically probably two months from there. one month, three weeks to four weeks on the water. And then once it gets to the port of L.A., for example, you know, then it might take an additional almost a month to get to the warehouse. Yeah. Just like on a truck or whatever. But what's kind of cool about Chili Chris is that it is a product that the flavor develops over time. So you actually don't eat it right when you make it, you know, because it's not developed. And so that extra time helps it to actually become kind of its prime flavor. You picked a great category to make in China.
28:31You're not doing fresh produce. You're not doing ice cream. You know, not that you would, but like there's probably some calculation when you're in the conception of this company that it would, the time on the boat actually helps the product. Yeah. Very, very smart. I want to shift and talk about food service. You own a restaurant in L.A. I'd like to hear about that. But I also want to hear about how Fly by Jing is starting to integrate into food service. Because you think about right now at QSR, you think about that category doing collabs. I mean, it's all about the collab. And how do you think about collabs?
29:07And first start there, and then we'll talk about the restaurant. Yeah. So we have been lucky to have collaborated with some amazing brands and restaurants. we actually have had collaborations with Shake Shack with Panda Express with salad chains with poke chains with ice cream chains we actually have something with salt and straw right now oh I tried it I tried that I was out in Portland I was at their original location and I saw it on the menu and I'm like I gotta try it Yeah. What do you think? It's cool. Trust me, it's cool. It's not for everyone. No. It's not for literally every consumer. Yeah.
29:53I really enjoyed it. I'm not going to say it was my favorite flavor that they did, but I really, really, really like it. It's very hard to do. It's very unique. Yeah. It's unique. Yeah. I really like it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we've been doing that stuff since actually the beginning. Like when I first launched Flybeging, we launched with an ice cream collab in New York. It was with Odd Fellows and in L.A. with Wanderlust. And so it's been kind of a fabric of our identity. And, you know, it helps that we are a flavor company that, you know, flavor goes on anything, right? So, yeah, so we've been doing it.
30:32And then also through our, like, CPG collabs as well. So our Fish Wife one, very popular. If you go to Whole Foods, you'll probably find us in, like, six different aisles in the grocery store. We've got a cracker. We've got a nut mix. That's a winning formula. Yeah. It's been really great. Yeah. To kind of, yeah, for our name to be able to show up elsewhere without having to actually, you know, create, like, take the risk and create that category. It's wonderful. Right. But it's, yeah, so it's been really great. And we're seeing, you know, collaborations pop up everywhere now and even, like, Chili Crisp products everywhere now, right?
31:13Like there was a kettle chips just did a Chili Crisp chip. Just as Chili Crisp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, you're kind of seeing that more and more. Completely. Is there a world where we have a Fly By Jing dipping sauce for a chicken McNugget? That's the dream. Truly. Yeah, yeah. McDonald's. McDonald's. Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready for it too. I'm a big fan of McDonald's. Me too. Listeners of the show know that. I think the innovation there is very smart. Same. Quality with an asterisk is very high. Yeah, totally. I think it would just with the resonance of the term chili crisp and seeing that on a menu when you're in drive-thru, you're like, how could you not try that?
32:00Yeah, exactly. It just sounds delicious. Well, tell me about your restaurant in LA. I've never been. I'd love to go visit it. Tell us about you have one location. And is this something you want to maybe expand? Yeah. So it's called Swa. Yeah. Swa Supret. And the idea is that it's a modern Asian grab and go concept. OK. That's also a coffee and masha bar. And there's also a soup prep component to it. There's a kind of curated selection of Asian pantry goods and home goods and so on. And it's in the heart of Larchmont Village. so it's a great beautiful street one of the few walking neighborhoods of LA so it's become a real like neighborhood kind of spot you know people are coming locals are you know the neighboring locals are coming every day for their matcha fix for their breakfast lunch even just like meal prepping for dinner and stuff because we sell basically just really craveable delicious sides entrees um that you can share with your family and and it's all flavored with you know authentic citron and asian flavors that you know a lot of them are powered by flab aging products um but then we also use local california like fresh produce and great proteins and um and so it's just like a really nice combo the inspiration behind it was that i've always wanted um you know that convenience for myself and you think about convenience and grab and go where you can just like you know incorporate into your busy schedule there's not much that is healthy and tasty yeah right you're limited to fast food oftentimes which that has its place but you don't want that every day so um so the dream was always like okay how can we create something like the pret-a-manger model.
34:00Yeah, it's exactly perfect. But have it be like super high quality ingredients and the flavors that I crave. I feel it would do well in London. Oh, absolutely. I think it would do really well in New York, actually. Of course. Better even than L.A. Because L.A., there's just not a walking culture. Yeah, and it doesn't have like the density in Larchmont that you would have in like Tribeca or even like the East Village or Midtown even. Yeah. So, you know, that's the dream. It's like, can we replicate this all over? in the right places. But for now, the location in Larchmont, it's a beautiful space.
34:36We designed it with our friends, these great architects. And it's got a really zen kind of Asian tea house feel. You walk in and you're just instantly relaxed. We've become actually more known for our matcha program now than the food even. But it's just a really nice neighborhood spot. I love it. I have to try it. I haven't. Oh, please, next time you come to LA. And you're thinking expansion, perhaps? Would love to. Yeah. Yeah. But it's hard because, I mean, you've outlined this big food company you're running. And to, like, have to, like, switch your brain and look at, like, a single or expansion restaurant, that's got to be challenging.
35:14It is. And, you know, I have different partners for SWA. Oh, good. And so, you know, I'm very lucky to have great operating partners. So, you know, they're kind of taking care of the everyday. But, you know, it is. So, yeah, it's great to have great partners so we can think about it together. I love this conversation, and I would love to have you back in a couple years to hear about more expansion. Yeah, me too. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. If you're one of those last-minute shoppers, you might know the feeling. Ideas are running low, and the clock is ticking. Here's a fun idea.
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38:33Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. On This It Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little Fast and Furious taste check. Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready. The best fruit. Yellow dragon fruit? Oh, tell me about it. I don't know. Have you had yellow dragon fruit? I don't think so. Okay. I don't think I've had dragon fruit, but I don't know. Yeah, so like the red ones, the normal ones, right? Yeah, that's what I know.
39:03They're kind of flavorless. They're really good for you, a lot of vitamins and stuff, but there's not much flavor. The yellow ones are like this delicious, sweet explosion. It's so good. You got to try it. I love that answer. The worst vegetable. Kale. Man, I had a really bad kale salad recently, and I have. Why? I just don't get it. Why do people like kale? It's not good, no matter how much you massage it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it gets watery if you massage it too much and overdress it. It's not good cooked either. It's not good raw, not good cooked. It's just health. It's healthy. It's just, okay.
39:38But maybe not. You're thinking. What is your typical breakfast? So these days, it's usually what my toddler has left over. So it's like yogurt, some fruit. Yeah. Toddler eats first always. Exactly. I've started doing celery juice in the morning. I don't know what it's doing, but, you know, it's... It's working? It's working, I guess. The best dessert? I really like a good, like, sorbet. Oh, yeah. Yesterday I had a really good mango sorbet. That was nice. Oh, yeah. When you get that seasonal fruit. Have you had a superiority burgers? Oh, yeah. I have. Yeah. It's so good. So good. So good. Great answer.
40:20A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. Okay. So in L.A., there was – so Joshua Skeens. Yeah. He had a restaurant there called Angler, and it was so good. It was like Saison. Have you been to Saison? I have never been to Saison. I know all about Angler. I know his pedigree and history. Yeah. Yeah. So it was like Saison, but like a tenth of the price. Yeah. And it was great. Angler was amazing, but sadly it closed. But he has another project now, I believe. I don't know what he's doing now. Yeah, he had a pizza thing, but that closed. I don't know. I love that call. I never made the Engler.
40:54Great reputation. A few more. We talked about this earlier, but I want to know, when you're craving fast food, where are you going? McDonald's. Yeah. That's my number one. Confirmed. Right? Is that your number one? 100%. Yeah. I think the menu is the best in terms of like, it offers me something that I want always, right? What's your order? It's definitely, you know, I hit value meal because I just like to see what they're doing. I just like the cost structure of hitting up, seeing what their daily specials are. Just seeing, and that gets me into the menu. I've been doing a lot of double cheeseburgers, to be honest.
41:31I love a double cheeseburger. Double cheese is probably over the QPC for me. I definitely am hitting five nuggets. Me too. And definitely a small fry, no soda. And if I'm feeling frisky, I'm doing big breakfast in the morning. which is like a I'm doing that once a year it's like a once a year thing where are yours? I love the breakfast I love the sausage egg mcbuffin although I'll also shout out the Starbucks one is pretty good Starbucks egg sausage breakfast sandwich wow we're really going in I have like a very quick commute morning and I'm doing the app and I'm hitting the turkey one sometimes and I'm feeling a little frisky I'm going sausage it's really really good even the egg white spinach Those bites?
42:17Wrap. Oh, the wrap. That one's really good. I love that one. Yeah, yeah, with sun-dried tomatoes inside. It's good. And I like, this is how people eat. Yeah, exactly. We're talking about Starbucks and we're talking about McDonald's. Grab and go. Yeah. Exactly. So McDonald's, real quick. Yeah, what do you got? Double cheeseburger, nuggets, fish filet. Oh, shit. Yeah. I love it. I need the variety. Yeah. And then a medium fry and Diet Coke. Okay, yeah. No, I love that order. I've had that order many times you know what's a sleepy hit and this is I'm gonna lose all cred and sorry listener if you're already this far I may have lost a lot of cred their morning taco like breakfast like the little taco they do it's like not a good taco but it's its own thing with little bits of sausage it's like a sleeper for me sometimes I don't hit their hot sauce not good but sorry that's me that's not me but we can talk McDonald's Last one, your favorite sandwich.
43:17A ham and cheese croissant. Is that a sandwich? It is. I consider it a sandwich. I don't think it's a sandwich. I actually don't think it's a sandwich. How is it not a sandwich? It's because it's... Meat and cheese in between two pieces of bread. Okay, so I'm like thinking about a ham and cheese croissant, meaning the fully formed ham and cheese flavored croissant, not the croissant sandwich with ham and cheese in between. Well, I was actually originally talking about that. That's what I was thinking. But it's like it's in between two things of bread, even though it's fully formed around it. We're getting technical here.
43:52I'm going to accept that answer. Tell me why. It's the best. I mean, it's the best. It's just like, you know, I also like a ham and cheese baguette sandwich, right? But, you know, but then you have the extra buttery flakiness of the croissant and it's perfect. It makes a sandwich so much better when you're using croissants. So great. Just back to fast food. Do you ever do BK croissants sandwiches? I have never tried that. I just did not have high hopes for the croissants, but are they good? When I was like 11, I would go there after piano practice to TMI here, but that was like my order always.
44:29I haven't returned. Have you had Raisin Cane's, by the way? Definitely. It's good. Yeah, it's pretty good. When's the collab happening? I mean, you know, call me. Call you. It's so popular. It is crazy. It's such a good company. And just in like five, six years, they've grown. I just think like chicken, fried chicken in any form is never going to like lower its index. Yeah. It's. But also just like their model. It blows my mind. Like we have one thing and like even the sandwich is just the thing. It's the thing in bread. Yeah. Well, I mean, you think about Asia, just back to that. I mean, just like perfecting one food.
45:09That's just like the model in East Asia and Southeast Asia. I mean, you just, you do one thing. In America, we just, we need more variety and more channels. We can expand beyond chicken, hopefully. No, but like Raising Canes is nailing it. There should be more Raising Canes doing one thing really well. Totally. I love that. This has been so much fun, Jing. I hope to have you back soon. Thank you so much. Likewise. Thank you.
45:39Haley, Chuck. Haley Catalano, Chuck Cruz. Hello. Are you guys ready to answer some questions? Yes. So ready. I mean, honestly, first off, what is the beach sandwich situation like right now? Oh, yes. We love a beach sandwich. What have we made currently, Chuck? We did a prosciutto and asparagus on the beach recently. And we cooked the bread on the beach, actually. Yeah, that was fun. Really? Yes. We brought our pizza oven to make focaccia at the beach. Yeah. We took it to the extreme. Is it like a mobile peach oven or are you like bringing it out in the truck? We brought a gas tank and on there.
46:17Yeah, we just drove right onto the beach and just like baked it on there. Yeah, we did the whole thing. That was an intense beach sandwich. You don't have to do that. But it was fun. So like what makes the perfect beach sandwich? Because I think we often make our own and they're extremely soggy. Always. Yes. I feel like it's all in the layering, right? Oh, yeah. The layering and just not putting any wet stuff close to bread. Sandwich it in other stuff. And like thin vegetables. Thin vegetables. Yeah, like thin shaved onions, thin shaved lettuce. Thin. Pro mayo or not? No. I like mayo. Do you guys ever fight about the mayo situation?
46:55Yeah, sometimes when we'll split a sub, I'll get like half mayo on mine. Yeah, we're those people that say, can you put half mayo on one side? Half mayo and half in the other. So Friday nights, big. I mean, I watch it every Friday. I want to just know, like, tell me, how do you cook? How do you think about this big dinner? And what are you making on Friday? Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, Chuck. Yeah, we kind of just, like, make whatever, like, we kind of, like, I don't know, kind of inspired by, like, Cheesecake Factory. Yes. TGI Fridays. TGI Fridays. Like, a lot of those fast, or not fast casual, like, casual restaurants.
47:31Yeah. Or what are those called? You know, like, Red Lobster. Oh, show, Red Lobster. Yeah. Hush puppies. yeah oh yeah they're underrated right i love them i mean i love them like red lobster is so good so good chuck's friend actually was a manager of red lobster so we get a lot of those mixes a lot bring like the biscuit mix home oh really and like steal it from the back of the red lobster make it at night and it was really good really good fresh out of the home oven really good i am in awe of this this thievery um all right chuck i want to ask you a big question so eric kim recently wrote this piece in the new york times officially anointing you as a soft boy yeah you want to read this you want to read this soft boy article the comments were wild yeah like people it was like split people were like defending like he we don't need to be talking about soft boy i have to hear from you what how do you feel about the soft boy status yeah i like it it was um i I feel like, you know, it's just like, for the whole thing about it, it was just like, kind of like, it was written in like a very nice way.
48:36You know, he was like. Yeah, it wasn't negative. Yeah. No, no. And like, he was like, it was just like about being like mindful and intentional with like the produce and seasonal. And I thought like, it's a nice, like, you know, it's a fun way to cook. Yeah. What is the word? What's the word? Like aggressive chef guy. Or like disgruntled, you know, I like to cook, you know? So it's like. It's like the opposite of like the aggressive chef. Yeah. Right. Yeah. and they were celebrating it. Yes. So what are the soft boy foods then? It's just like a new food group. Like soft boy foods. Yeah. Yes. I think like, like herbs, right?
49:13Herbs. That's not a lot of herbs. Herbs. Yeah. Herbs. Well, you also said peeled tomatoes, like conchus saying tomatoes. That's a soft boy food. And just like seasonal things. And just like, let's unpack this a little bit. Okay. So seasonal things are soft boy. Okay. So how, but I know all chefs think about seasonality and go to the green market, but there's gotta be something you pull from within your soft boy attitude to make these greens and herbs more soft boy. That's true. Yeah. I don't know. I guess it would be like, just kind of like matching it with something else to make it like. Nostalgic vibes.
49:50Yeah. True. Oh, it kind of like, yeah, kind of like, yeah, nostalgic and kind of like pulling it back to something. It's like, or like what your mom's cooking. That's very soft boy. Yeah. Like channeling mom. Yeah. Haley, what do you think about Chuck being a soft boy? Oh, I love it. I love it. I was like my little softie. That's true. I mean, it's lovely. I love Eric Kim. And I think he did a really nice thing to kind of take the toxic masculinity out of cooking. Yes. And create this term. Yeah. I think it's great. I think people were just like in the comments, like, because they just, I don't know, people don't get it sometimes.
50:23But it's a nice thing. And it's sweet. And if you know Eric, of course, sweetest guy. I mean, he's like the president of the soft boy food club, you know, Eric, it's lovely. I think it's just this evolution in food, this vocabulary, this vernacular, we don't need to use the same words and it makes like 50 % of New York times readers uncomfortable, but that's like, okay.
50:48Thank you, Chuck, for being a sport with that question. You're nice to feel that Haley, you knew you wanted to be a chef at 12. yeah I want to know like when you're 12 like what draws you towards that career and like is it food tv is it like working in restaurants what's that yeah I think well yeah I was just very lucky to know at a young age what I wanted to do I think growing up my mom's always cooking my grandma's always cooking big gardeners I'm always around food at a young age and then I think my aunt and uncle were both professional chefs. Oh, okay. And they were a couple obviously. And I was like, they're so cool, like cooking together.
51:28Um, so I really resonated with that. And then I think I was a food network kid. So that with the food network kid, I was like, that's what I'm going to do. Okay. What's your food network diet looking like? I mean, it was a Rachel Ray. Are we doing Bobby Flay? What's, what are you thinking? What got me into food network was Rachel Ray, the garbage bowl, the, you know, grabbing all the ingredients really fast and bring it. It's like, she would really do that in the 30 minutes isn't that crazy truly remarkable rachel ray no edits no edits like they're just doing it different when she would like black black out the like products yes oh my god yes everything like there was no brands on there yeah like it's like obviously like um like craft macaroni and cheese but it's like boxed out the big black thing like it's like some kind of like adult film or something like boxed out um i i i want to hear chuck were you into food tv as a as a kid yeah i was i was more into a travel channel and like yeah like the anthony bourdain andrew zimmern and shows like that yeah yeah i kind of got into cooking like just i got like my first job was in high school at uh at like a chinese buffet and then i just kind of like liked the environment so i just kind of stayed in it you're like this is amazing yeah this is fun when you're working at a buffet like what's the what's the like push like i mean are you putting out like like 1 ,000 egg rolls yeah it was like there's a lot of oyster shucking and it was like a Chinese slash it was like a yeah Chinese slash Japanese buffet it had a lot of stuff had a lot of different like stuff going on but um yeah oyster shucking there was like sushi there's like deep frying sushi and it was yeah deep frying sushi yeah are you pro or con on this idea uh it was good at the time yeah yeah it sounds really good actually it was like the day the day old uh sushi and then they would try it yeah that you had that experience too because actually on my when i used to work at a golf club we also did the same thing with the day old sushi rolls we would fry the next day so maybe that's like some sort of oh wait
53:30not ideal me well you know hey yeah there's some there's some shady practices at that buffet I want to ask you, The Cut has called you the internet's most beloved chefs. And I think that's actually true. You guys are lovely to hang out with. We've had pizza together. And you have this online community. I think many in this room follow you. And, you know, I want to check in. What are the DMs looking like these days? Because, like, between the two of you, we're like a million. We're like maybe two. Maybe eight on multiple platforms. so you got some fans what are the dms looking like well i feel like well we started our joint like channel or whatever because we wanted to like have a like more connection with our audience and i feel like that was a good way to do it yeah and so yeah now i feel like we like can chat more with everybody and it's like more of like a secret group club like if you know about friday night dinner it's kind of like we're all there but it's like i feel like it's not really very well known but it's like a secret club yeah and i like a secret club yeah like sometimes like we'll say like we'll have like a word of the week and then yeah and then people will use the word of the week throughout the week on our videos on our other channels what's a recent word of the week uh consistency consistency oh it's silly oh we're not talking peewee's playhouse here we're like this is like some deep food yes yeah consistency it's like about being consistent yeah and just you know everything yeah and interactive was another one yeah oh yeah interactive that was to have a lot of birthday shout outs because we would shout out birthdays every week yeah during lives and stuff yeah no just during the friday night dinners like in the middle and um so we used to get a lot of like happy birthday shout outs in our messages too which we like because a birthday is a special day and it should be it should be shouted out for infamy but then people got mad yeah so we had to take it away so we had to stop wait why did people get mad they said oh i have to fast forward through this part every time it's like so boring i'm like this is fun it's called this is joy this is joy and and this is engagement yeah yeah what are you guys being asked in your in your instagram your dms like what what kind of questions are are people asking you we got a lot of like recommendations like asking for recommendations of like where to eat and stuff or like whether or not we should go to someone should go to culinary school like our thoughts on that i feel like we get that a lot a lot of like young cooks asking about uh advice on how So should you go to culinary school?
55:59It's a loaded question. Is it? Yeah, because it is expensive. They don't really tell you if you want to cook, right, when you get out. Really? It's not going to pay the loan. Yeah, which is a lot of school, I guess. And then the flip side is you can learn a lot just working in a restaurant on the job. Interesting point. So culinary school, a lot of money. You're going to learn the moves from the textbook and get a little of the practicum. but you're also maybe not going to cook in restaurants. So would you do it again? Would you go to the CIA? That's where you met. You met up at Hyde Park. Yeah.
56:34Yeah, I'll do it again. We always say this. Yeah, I would go again because I, that was like my real college experience. So I feel like I became myself like going there. So I always. Yeah, it was a really nice like campus too. And it was like the area was really beautiful. It did instill like a very serious, because they're very serious there. Very much so. So it did instill like a very, even though we might not come off serious like there's a there's a little seriousness in there about like how we you know cook and stuff are you is the seriousness like getting a little bit too much and too intense during these this coursework oh yeah yeah oh they well like it was like the program was like you go through what was it like each class is three weeks and every three weeks you learn a different cuisine or a different technique or a different it's like 12 hour classes at the time i don't know if it's still and the teachers or like instructors are like very strict i think even more so because like they're trying to teach you the industry and stuff yeah so they kind of push it and then yeah like you got multiple like yeah i got kicked out of class like really yeah like my hair was touching the back of my shirt one time they cut my hair too yeah once mine was also so they they would come around and cut your hair they cut your hair yeah yeah if it was touching your yeah they bring out the scissors in the middle of class yeah yeah well before it started like when they kind of do like a lineup they check to see it like because you have to have your what was the thing a neckerchief yeah like tied a certain way and your hair had to be a certain way um also they would shave your arm yeah with your knife with your knife to make sure it was sharp enough like if your if your knife was not sharp enough to shave your arm then you got sent home this is not in the ca brochure like there's no chance they're saying that we're going to be cutting your hair in the middle of the day.
58:18I don't know if they still do this now. This was, what, 10 years ago now? I don't know. So, yeah, you're paying so much money just to, like, yell it at. Yeah, that's a thing. You get yelled at, yeah. Yeah. It's probably changed now, I think. I'm like, I don't know. Okay. I don't know. Do you feel like, have they gotten soft at the CA? I don't know. I don't know. Probably, right? Yeah. I think you'd have to, like, how the industry is going and all that. Yeah, it's probably the best. Yeah, I know it's better to be that way. What's the dream restaurant collab? because I just know and you can duck the question fair but please don't for audience you're you're you're obviously building towards something together you're writing cookbooks you know Chuck your book is coming out soon Haley you just released your incredible book but it's books are great media is great but you're restaurant people it's obviously gotten to know you so you're building towards something what is this restaurant yeah yeah I'd say it's like a it's a small restaurant like the our main dream was to have a restaurant that's why like we kind of started this whole thing and it was just going to be us two just like maybe a third person like people yeah no dishwasher no we want to do like yeah that's still a dream yeah just maybe three yeah maybe three now do everything that's like what we really want to like everyone does everything like running we would run the food we would you know be a server we would cook it like how cute is it if like i cook something and then i just give it to you like right so not just me like you know Haley, you could charge like$600 for a tasting menu.
59:44No, well, we'd want you to be small. Small and cute. Okay, what's the cuisine?
59:51What are we thinking here? Soft. Yeah, soft. Very seasonal. Soft and seasonal. Lots of herbs. Bread. Yes. Soft bread. Soft and seasonal. Soft and seasonal. S &S, I can see the logo. That's nice. I mean You're gonna do it though right I hope so One day You're busy now Okay last two What food is not cool right now Oh like things in food Or food like a food It's interpretive but we could say both Oh Do you wanna go where I think I'm gonna say caviar I feel like it's a little It's overdone a little bit bit a little too far and why is it so like why can you get it so easily because you know it used to be like you can't really get this all that but i feel like you can find it anywhere yeah it used to be just petrosian you would go out to brooklyn get the cool stuff but now you can just like get it on like fresh direct yeah which is fine maybe it's good it's accessible but i don't know i guess i feel like maybe it's a little overdone yeah have you done a caviar bump in your life yes i have i am still on the fence of even if i it's like i don't even know maybe i haven't had like the best caviar in the world probably i'm like i don't know if i like it yeah it's like yeah it's fun it's it's a fun thing to do yeah it's fun yeah it's fun but it's losing i think it's funness because it's too it's like everywhere available i don't know if that's bad yeah um what's not cool not cool okay uh i probably took your caviar yeah that was i was oil maybe true that's another one like just like willy-nilly yeah just kind of i just don't really like the smell of it either yeah i mean no one does i think we like fake it kind of like that we love truffle oil but we just don't love it yeah no no yeah that's true those are good ones yeah fair okay so what is the coolest food then oh yes we were just hot dogs it's funny that this is a lot of hot dog talk yeah yeah set you up but it's so true that we love chuck and i love We've been on a huge hot dog kick last, like, I guess my whole life, but.
1:02:08But we love, we were like, we should plan a trip just going to try different, like, hot dogs around America because. Oh, yeah. They're so fun. Name a more fun food. I agree with you. Also, regional hot dogs, just like. Exactly. Chicago. Yeah, Chicago. Shout out. Yeah. Sonora dogs in LA. Yes, yeah. Central dogs, they call them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Chili dog. Chili dog. And we could just go all day. Yeah. We got a big show, but we could just name hot dogs all day. For real. But like, honestly, the Chicago hot dog. Haley. So good. The best hot dog. Is that what you're saying? Yes, it's the best hot dog.
1:02:43It's got it all. You know, all in one. It's hard. I will give it. It's a little hard to eat because there's a lot going on. But it has, you know, it's salt, fat, acid, heat. It's kind of like a soft hot dog, you know? It's like. Soft hot dog. I love it. It's so good. Haley Catalano and Chuck Cruz, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.
1:03:07This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste
From the publisher
Fly By Jing is one of the most exciting brands in food today, and we were lucky to have the company’s founder, Jing Gao, return to the studio for a great conversation. We talk about the company’s incredible trajectory, and how growth (and expansion into new product lines) comes with its own challenges. We also tap into what it’s like to make chili crisps in China, and how the yo-yoing tariff dynamic is keeping the company on its toes. I have so much respect for what Jing is building at Fly By Jing.
Also on the show we have a great conversation with Hailee Catalano and Chuck Cruz, recorded live at The Bell House. We talk about softboy foods, beach sandwiches, and what the DMs are looking like.
Buy: The Book of Sichuan Chili Crisp
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