656: Real Talk About Cervos and Eel Bar with Aaron Crowder

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30:49Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Aaron Crowder, welcome to This Is Taste. It's really great to see you. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat with you. I love your restaurants. I do not know you. And I'm hoping this conversation, we get to know you a little better. We were talking fishing off mic. Some people will go there. You're a fishing nut, and I love that. But I want to open and just ask you as a chef, busy chef working and operating two restaurants, Servos and Eel Bar, when you're not on the clock, where are you dining out right now?

31:24I'm sure this is an answer that a lot of people have, but can't stop going to Haas. Yeah. Or Haas Snack Bar. I'm excited for their new opening, which hopefully will happen soon. I eat out around my house a lot. There's a new restaurant by the Yellow Rose people that's literally like 200 feet from my house. So cool. Rosemary, and I've been there a bunch of times. Um, there's a diner near my house that serves Mexican food that I love. You're gatekeeping it. I can tell. I cannot remember. I thought I was like, Aaron, are you gatekeeping? No, it's cool. I'm also going to say, not in New York City, but I go to Catskills a lot, which we were just talking about.

32:09And there's a restaurant that's a Korean restaurant on the way up that also makes the Korean rice wine. Oh, yeah. The name Makkali? Yeah, Makkali. Makkali, excuse me. Absolutely. And they also serve eel, which they catch in the river. Oh, wonderful. And it's amazing. And you can do a little research and find it yourself. Okay, so this is a gatekeeper situation. I've actually not been to that restaurant. I have an idea what it is, but let's just keep it that way. It's one of the best restaurants that I've been to in my life, and I think that someone should figure it out. Yeah, no, it's definitely—and we have a lot of writers listening to the show, so do your homework, writers, and head up to the Catskills.

32:51Aaron, tell me a little bit about food growing up in Florida. What was it like in your household? So both my parents worked, and my mom made dinner every night. um sometimes like fancier than others but it wasn't like it wasn't very much like a hobby for her as much as it was like she makes dinner every night except for sunday nights because she would make sunday lunch after we'd go to church and um you know i didn't really think about it until recently about how big of a impact that had on me but i think that it really did um i mean and And it was like lots of casserole. Sure. Lots of like chicken with salsa and cheddar cheese on it and brown rice.

33:36My mom made brown rice for some reason. I mean, she's balancing it out. It's not just chicken. Is it? She's doing the food groups. And really, she did an amazing job. And I think that like my relationship with my mom and cooking are very tied to each other. I love that. So you're having home-cooked meals many nights. Are you a restaurant family? Are you going out to restaurants? Are you discovering what restaurants can be as a career, perhaps? Not at all. My parents, we would go to like the chain restaurants. Yeah. And it was like a big deal. We would go to O 'Charlie's because kids eat free. I love those.

34:14You know? We had Carlos Murphy's. That was our version of it in the Midwest. And there was a few different places that we'd go to that were a little bit more specialized. In Pensacola, where I'm from, there's definitely a lot of people kind of like connect themselves to Creole cooking. And we would go to some restaurants that were like that. And that was interesting. And I remember being interested by it. But this is definitely not the thing that like propelled me into cooking in any way. Yeah, absolutely. You're living your truth. And there isn't that origin story at childhood. So when does it start to light inside you that cooking professionally could actually be a thing?

34:51So I started, the only job I've ever had has been in restaurants. And I started as a dishwasher and a pizza delivery person. And I then worked at a Boy Scout camp for one summer. So that's my only job outside of restaurants. And then I just worked in restaurants. I worked doing coffee. I worked waiting tables. I then bartended all into my early 20s. And then I knew that I wanted to move to New York. And in order to get my parents on the same page, I decided to go to culinary school. And really it comes from like a love of restaurants. Like I loved working in restaurants at that point. I think that the social aspect of restaurants like really was what I needed in that moment.

35:44and once I went to culinary school in New York, it became like an obsession and this is a big theme in my life. I definitely get obsessed with things. Yeah, so tell me, why did you know you wanted to move to New York? Because it's New York. Yeah, yeah. I lived in Florida. I'd come up here going to shows and just hanging out for the weekend with a group of friends that had already moved up here and it's the energy of the city. Even now, like I've lived here for 16 or 17 years. And as like a 40-year-old, I definitely want to leave the city in lots of ways. But there's something that always keeps me here.

36:27And it's the energy and it's cliche to say. No, it's absolutely true. And you can't say it any other way. There's like undeniable energy. Tell me about culinary school and like just actually getting into the work and the craft of it. Because, you know, your restaurants, you know, you're very humble. And I really appreciate that, Aaron. And your restaurants are craft and they're exceptional. And you come from like a very, you know, it's a modest background. You weren't traveling the world to discover these cuisines. You went to culinary school and you started working. So tell me a little bit about those early days.

37:05So, yeah, I went to culinary school and culinary school was good in some ways. I think that it gave me a little bit of a background. But as soon as I was able to start working as an intern, I started doing that, which was at Marlo & Sons. And then started cooking right away. And really, the things that I learned the quickest started in that moment. I learned a lot of French terminology in cooking school. And I learned how to make a roux. But even to this day, a lot of those things I don't use. but there are yeah techniques and just like ways of thinking about food that i started learning in the moment of starting to work in an actual restaurant so you your ex your externship is under andrew tarlo yeah at marlo and sons you worked at diner as well and it's a really it's clearly an apprenticeship because you worked there for years and i just want to get a little inside about what it's like working there and really what's the glue that binds these restaurants uh Marlo and Sons is no longer here, but what's the special sauce for an Andrew Tarlow restaurant in the back of the house?

38:15Because these are some of the most consistent restaurants and acclaimed restaurants for great reasons. Yeah. It's hard for me to really speak to what they are now. I think that Romans is a really good example of a restaurant that's done exactly what you're saying as far as being really consistent both in just high-quality food but also in identity. I think that Marlowe and Sons and Diner has an identity of a neighborhood restaurant, at least when I worked there. And the people that ate there, although there was a lot of people from outside, it was very much like Williamsburg restaurant. Yes, it was.

38:56At that moment, we were cooking like, quote unquote, new American food, which had a lot of rules, but then also not a lot of rules. and for me I was able to cook a lot of different things really quickly and I was working for Andrew Tarlow but also my chef at the time Sean Rembold who I worked for for eight years I believe and under we just worked on continuing that identity of this new American food and I think that that shows in the restaurant as a whole it's been a very long time since I've worked there Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, another like eight years or something. But it's an era and like Sean Remboldt, I'm so happy you brought up Sean's name because I think when Sean really like opened Marlowe, it was like a huge moment for Brooklyn restaurants.

39:50Like it really defined a certain style of restaurant that you're articulating here. And Sean is somebody who also like yourself doesn't get as much press right now currently at least, but one of our best chefs. So it's hard. It's hard to really say exactly like why those restaurants continue to be such important restaurants. Yeah. Seeing that all a lot of the people that I worked with when I was there and there was more people that worked there before me. Sure. But I think that it really comes down to identity and something that's recognizable. And I think that out of the lessons I've learned there, that's one of the lessons that myself and my partners, you know, we talk about this a lot about like, what are these restaurants and what do we want them to be?

40:35And then in the kitchen, it's even more specific, you know, and we really stick to a certain direction. And of course, we can waver from it. No, but you, and this is a great segue to talk about servos and like the early, the origins of servos and this tight focus, not just in aesthetics in the front of the house, but like really on the menu. There's a real energy for servos. Tell us how you and your partners came up with the idea for servos and really, you know, that location in particular. When you opened, it wasn't the obvious choice. My partner Niles spent some time in Portugal on vacation.

41:20And he told my partner Nick, you got to go here. And I think maybe they went together. And I think on that vacation, they decided they wanted to open a Portuguese oyster bar, which doesn't really exist in Portugal. And they told me about it. I went to Portugal. I was super inspired. and we came back with that idea. Very quickly did we realize that an oyster bar in that moment wasn't the thing. And I think like how I wanted to cook as well really turned us into a full-fledged restaurant right away. And I think that within a few weeks we were kind of like on the path. And of course over many years it's changed somewhat too.

42:06But that's the origin story. Yeah, and it's interesting. What year did you open? 2016, I believe. Yeah, it's a 16. Maybe it's 16 or 17. Yeah, it's a 16 opening or 17. And what struck me about Servos was that in that era in 16, instantly it was like where all the food writers and editors were hanging out. It was like truly like this moment where like, have you been to Servos? They're doing it. And I think it has a lot to do with this idea of like you're tapping into Portugal and that this is a type of food and a style of service that maybe at that time in New York wasn't really being represented.

42:44But, you know, you had the BA editors hanging there. You had just food writers in general. What are those early – what's that first year like, you know, running servos and becoming like kind of an instant hit? This is my term, of course. It's funny that you see it as an instant hit because I see it like looking back as it being like a long road uphill. For sure. This is why we had these conversations. However, we did get great press in the beginning. And a lot of that has to do with relationships we had. Myself at the time and a lot of those writers, very same age. We knew each other.

43:23We're speaking maybe the same language about the food that we wanted to eat at that time. And I think that what we were doing was something that was also pretty easily recognizable. you know wasn't covered up by like lots of crazy technique it was really like this is the thing and this is the inspiration and this is the direction and then on top of that like we were really trying to make it taste very good yeah yeah i knew you think everybody is in every restaurant but like um yeah so we got some good press for sure i think that a lot of people think that when you get good press it's just like you're on the top yeah and i think that my experience is you get a few weeks of a bump and then it goes back to grinding to get regulars to have really good nights consistently to have people come back and it's like you're just compounding so it was great and it was hard.

44:24Yeah tell me about the hard part I mean it's a great insight into this is real talk from a real chef like Servo's is a buzzy restaurant and And, you know, you've got, you know, Resi notifies happening. But what are the slower nights like in those early few years? Like, I mean, and what are the challenges? Well, the slower nights, like any new restaurant, you know, they're slow nights. And at the time when we opened, it was, we had a garmentier cook, a grill cook, and a saute slash expediter, which would be me, at least five nights a week. Or sous chef at the time. And I remember it as being really fun.

45:01Yeah. but also a little bit stressful um i i think that on slower nights at least now is our opportunity to really really focus in on on doing it really really well um it's our opportunity to like gain the muscle it is of cooking that um you can continue on and not think about as much when you're busy um which you know it's a muscle um and it's really hard to continue to get that right um so first year you're building you're gaining muscle you're um working on the culture of your restaurant you know you're like building relationships and you know again i said this before but you know compounds yeah what's it like working that that plancha spot at servos uh you know i just was in barcelona and i had a great meal at ultramarino's marine and they have the plancha spot as well and i i gotta i gotta believe that's a it's a fun spot to work because you're just like facing all these diners and anyone who knows knows the bar seats are the best seats at servos and uh but also it has its challenges because you're just like literally right there with like all these diners going through all the diners things which is like meals that may have nothing to do with the food and just about maybe an argument or a celebration but you must see a lot from that spot.

46:18I mean, working the plancha, which I haven't done very much, to be honest, maybe once or twice. Yeah. Yeah. I can only kind of like speak to what I've seen, but it's really, it's a, it's a challenging station. The plancha is small. The restaurant is small and we fit a lot of people in there. There's definitely a, working any station at Cerebos, there's an understanding that people are watching you, but also you kind of get in this mode where there's an invisible wall. And even me, someone sitting on the other side now and expediting, I can kind of tune everything out. However, I think that one of the things that has made Cerebos really good and having an open kitchen and one that's so open is that you definitely feed off the energy of the restaurant.

47:12Like you can hear the volume kind of turn up, you know you can feel people's energy and that definitely pushes people to do a good job i mean the second round of drinks hit and it's like it becomes it's like literally turning up the volume i think diners feel it too no for sure and i think you could talk about that too like the the design of our restaurant which um i think on the outside is just really really beautiful but also is really, really close. And I don't know if everyone knows it, but I think people want to kind of like brush up. You know, people want to be in a place that is close. For sure.

47:52And it works there. That's why we love dining out in New York unless we're not loving being in these tiny spaces. For sure. But I think we love overhearing conversations. I mean, come on. That's the best part about dining out in New York and just like seeing people close to buy. It's a contact sport at times. So what's it like being in this very special pocket of New York? You know, some call it Dime Square. Both restaurants are kind of in that pocket, you would say. And like through the course of Servo's, at least history, I mean, the neighborhood has changed. I mean, especially pandemic, year post-pandemic, you know, that was like and still is like one of New York's most important restaurant neighborhoods.

48:33Youth culture has moved over from Brooklyn to Dime Square. It's really a fascinating neighborhood. Yeah, I mean, there's a ton of energy there. It can be really busy. It can be really hectic. It can be a lot to manage on our end. um we when the when the pandemic happened and we were able to get this outside space um you know it started off pretty simply and that thing has become a little bit more dynamic um and definitely something that we manage but um it's great to be in in the neighborhood it's great to see it change i think that like in the beginning when we were there there was also still a really, really palpable energy.

49:21And labor across the street with skateboarders in the street, cars going by. It's always, at least since we've been there, it's always been a really great place. And it's changing. What do you mean? You paused a little bit when you said it's changing. Is it changing in a way that makes it maybe more expensive? maybe it's a different dynamic it's less neighborhood and more like tourists are there. I mean all of those things are true but I mean it's changing in the way it's just like there are a lot of people there all of the time. Kind of awesome for a restaurant. It is awesome for us. You know things change.

50:00No I appreciate that. So you opened Eel Bar last summer and I think you know I was just there and I shared with Eliza you know just a terrific meal. I just love what you're doing there and we'll get to some of the food shortly but But I want to ask you about the Basque region and what drove you to open your second restaurant. And just like the opening of a second restaurant is a huge moment for you. So I think that both in Portuguese cooking and Spanish cooking overall and then Basque cooking, the thing that draws me to those things and the reason why I feel like we can do a good job cooking them is simplicity.

50:41and the way I learned how to cook was you know quote-unquote simple cooking and I think that myself and the people that I work with my sous chefs we've really become like experts in this in the city I believe and I vacationed in the Basque region now a few times and I love it like San Sebastian specifically is a place where there's just a concentrated amount of good food and a concentrated amount of good food that's casual. Yeah. It's not just the Michelin stuff. No, I mean, honestly, I haven't really even dove into Michelin food there. For me, when I go there, it's about walking around, eating at many places, drinking wine, drinking vermouth, drinking cider, and eating small bites, which you know is a cliche right now in New York restaurants everyone's talking about small bite restaurants or small plate restaurants but they're becoming small bites they usually call small plates for me you know for me it's it's really just about being able to eat a lot of different things in one meal I'm inspired by that yeah it's kind of it's been a challenge to get people to understand that and want to eat that way and we're working on it but Bosque food in general, I think it really comes back down to just like simplicity and food that is super delicious, but also straightforward and understandable.

52:15How do you fight this narrative? And I'll call it the pedestrian narrative, not to be a snob, but like this narrative that many have is that you go to a tapas restaurant or a pinchos restaurant, even a Spanish restaurant, and you're like, you're quote unquote, not going to eat enough or not be full. I feel that perception is probably something you've thought about. We've thought about it a lot. We've talked about it a lot. It's something that we still are working on. I think that it really comes down to people having an open mind first. But also, like, it's on us to get people to order the right amount of food.

52:51And it's on the client to trust us a little bit. I always tell people like when there's more than two people at a table, like doubling up on things more than getting a bunch of different things is a great way to go. But it's hard. I don't know how we really fight against it other than just continuing to do the thing you believe in and doing it over and over again. And then people will trust us a little bit more as it happens. Great point. You know, you get word of mouth. You get return visits. And I think like on the service side, it's imperative that they suggest the right amounts. And it doesn't add up to be, you know, at least on the money side, to be a level where it feels like you've had a tasting menu.

53:39And I think that narrative is that's perception versus reality because you actually order 10 dishes at Servo's. It's going to be on par with many other restaurants. It's not going to be that pricey. And speaking of doubling up, I want to ask you about your Gilda. because to me that is such a great dish. Yeah, I really love it. I'm like, this is also a thing that we have to get people to trust us on. Yeah. It's, you know, it's a pickled cucumber. It's a gordol olive. It's a really good anchovy. There's olive oil on it, right? We had this from the opening. It was an idea that I had based on something that I had eaten before.

54:18Not fully my idea, but like this is our version of it. I don't think we can actually legally call it a Gilda, even though we do. And I think that's fun and weird too. However, it is a really, really delicious thing. And I'm excited to have it. Thinking about these contrasts, but also using great products and presenting it in just such an enjoyable bite. Yeah. Yeah. So I was in the Pyrenees Mountains on vacation and ate at this restaurant, which I have no idea what the name of it is. And it seemed like it was kind of the lunch counter for everyone that lived in this town. And we had a skewer that had like a pickle on it that was like literally this big, like two inches across a olive on the end.

55:13And it was weird. It doesn't eat easily. and I ate like five of them and they were so good. And I'm definitely inspired by weird. Yeah. And I want to continue to make food that's not exactly what everyone expects, but also is understandable when you get it. Ooh, give me a couple of examples on the current eel bar menu. We're recording this in early September, so I know you swap your menu with some frequency, but what are some dishes that represent this like weird and accessible, this like very unique way of cooking we have a menu that um it's obviously inspired by eating in spain um and the dishes that we make are never like true representations of that exact thing um i'm not spanish i'm not portuguese and i don't pretend to be and we don't want to make something that is like a cosplay version of that we want to make something that is inspired by the thing but also represents who we are and kind of represents new york um and i think at eel bar we have a potato salad that is um currently has octopus on it we make a really simple potato salad it's basically mayonnaise garlic and potatoes um and we top it with different things when we opened it was just covered in trout row which was a big hit we'll bring back someday um and this is like inspired by potato salad rusa which is like the spanish version of russian potato salad so this is like our new york version of the spanish version of the russian version of potato salad maybe a little bit of like pensacola sure in there too because i'm like when i had it at the dining room i was with my friend luke and And I was like, dude, this is Pensacola a little bit going on here in the best way.

57:06This is like a pure compliment. It's a delicious salad I had with octopus. And it was really, really well balanced with acidity and the creaminess. I was like, yeah, this is a little bit of Aaron's home talking to you. Yeah, and you can kind of say the same thing. We have a mussels dish that is mostly on the menu all the time. And it's the same mussel that we have at Eel Bar, but we fry it and we put it back in the show. and um i don't think like fried mussels is specifically a thing in spain um or in bas country but it reads as a basque dish um and it's spicy and it's acidic and it's all the things that is us but it's in this kind of package that you can see and look at and be like oh yeah that's just cool a dish from from spain you know so i have to ask you about your cannelly because i i Canelé is like one of these dishes that a lot of people try, very few execute.

58:02My friend Akira Kudo, chef in LA, has a deep passion for it. And if you follow him on Instagram, he's typically calling out bad canelés. I don't think Akira will care that I mention that. But I think yours was just perfect. Talk about like getting this right every single time. Well, I had canelés in France. France, Southern France, Basque France. And I was just like walking around. I got one, I ate it and I was blown away. I had never had one before. So like it stuck in my brain. And when we opened, I knew that we wanted to, to have this on the menu. I am the worst pastry cook ever and I stay away from it a little bit.

58:53So my sous chef, Chase, took the challenge on and it was literally, it was definitely like a months long project. It has to be. Truly it has to be. And he did a really good job and passed it on to our prep cook who makes them every day, Abel. Shout out Abel. Yeah, Abel. The best in the world. Yeah. And he's even taken them further. It's a simple recipe that everyone says is one of the hardest. most challenging and I was like how could it be that hard and it was a challenge but now we figured it out there's no wax no wax used at all it's a simple mold they're stainless steel they're not cast iron I really think that it has to do with temperature of oven and moving things around there are secrets and there are tricks the batter is something that's very simple Sure.

59:51And there was some tweaking there, but what it comes down to for us, it's about temperature. Anybody who is a home baker knows that the batter is the easiest part. Yeah. And what I like most about it, too, is it's a plated dessert. So it's not just like the cannelly that you're going to order at a bakery and point at it and get it in a bag. It's actually you've got peaches and cream. Currently. Currently in the summer months, and you'll swap that, I'm sure. And I just love the way those peaches were presented. Delicious. Yeah. The way that I like to eat dessert and the way that I want to cook dessert or have our restaurants cook dessert, again, is based in simplicity.

1:00:29And we don't have a lot of components to those things. Like this specific canale set is canale's fresh peaches, double cream tossed together. It's pretty simple. And at the end of the meal for me, like I just don't want to eat anything that's complicated. and it fits all the things. It's a little sweet. It's warm. It's mixed with some cold fruit. I mean, it's the texture, man. It's the texture and all the work that you just described goes into just nailing that texture. Well, thank you. And not burned either. That's the other thing about candlelight is they can just go a little too dark. Yeah.

1:01:09Some people may like that. I think it's a taste factor. I think so. Some people really want it to be really, really dark. And ours are very dark. but it's we have to make food that also people want to eat yeah yeah let me ask you about your your chef profile uh you know i i have this like pet theory when when prepping for this interview and i read your press which there wasn't a lot of it i think you did a great grub street diet but also to that there wasn't a lot and uh i think like honestly like 2006 if you were a chef in new York, you'd be a huge chef with Eater and Grub Street and the Village Voice and like the internet because of the way servos and eel bar are presented.

1:01:52Now, you know, chefs profiles are different. There's way less outlets covering restaurants in New York. And like, it's all about the chef presenting food and having a social profile that presents it. And you kind of don't do that. Your profile is fishing, which I think is dope, I think. So how do you feel about your own place in this like chef culture we're in right now everyone's it's got to stay in their own lane you know and i i i don't engage in instagram or twitter i don't do that not because like i'm trying to make a statement or anything because my life and the things i like to do i just do them um as far as like having a cooking you know profile um it's just not that important to me.

1:02:41Sometimes I would like to have an interview, you know, and we're doing that. Yeah. But I'm just, that's just not who I am. I respect that tremendously. And you know it, you know where you should be. The thing that's important to me is having restaurants that work and people love, like that gives me a lot of satisfaction. And continuing to build those restaurants and build our staff and work on the next thing that will happen eventually. But it's not about me. Yeah. Refreshing. Thank you for sharing that, Aaron. I know you're not going to spoil a good show and tell us about your next restaurant project.

1:03:20So I'm not going to ask that question. But I want to know, though, yourself, where do you want to be in 10 years with your career? And just conceptually speaking, the group that you have, and really, there's so much, I mean, potential and future for what you've been building as a group at these two restaurants specifically with you. What themes and maybe cuisines are you thinking about? I mean, right now, not to spoil anything, but right now, Servos and Eel Bar is perfect for us. Or for me. And I can't imagine in the near future working on anything else. And in the 10 years from now, I just imagine hopefully having these restaurants continue to be great restaurants.

1:04:09And I think that one thing that I speak a lot about with my partners, Nicklia and Niles, and also Taylor now, is about having institutions. And I don't think that restaurants become institutions without a lot of hard work and a lot of hard decisions and the way to do that is to continue to be there and to continue to be a part of building what that thing is going to be we don't want to set it and forget it and 10 years from now hopefully yule bar is um on the same path that servos is now and it's going to take a lot of hard work i the sentiment is is terrific i i I love to hear that. And I just want to close and just ask you about entering year two for Eel Bar.

1:05:00I think I've tried to express this on the show for diners need to support restaurants in year two. I think we're in the fall opening season and our wonderful friends in the media are covering all the great openings and we want to support new restaurants. But also we need to go to restaurants that are in year two because year two can fucking suck. and like there's a lot of competition out there in the city oh my god how do you think about these topics of like year two and keeping the momentum going when there's a lot of shiny new toys out there it's just you just got to continue to work on it um you have to have blinders on a little bit um i don't know if there's any like tricks or cheat codes involved in like getting through you know a dip and it really just comes down to working hard and keeping your head on straight and continuing to make the thing that you believe in no I don't know I don't know if there's much more to it no you're being straightforward I mean what about patronage like thinking about regulars and becoming a regular at a restaurant I mean you have regulars at both your restaurant Yeah, for sure.

1:06:14And how do you think about the regular? But I think it's a little nebulous for New Yorkers because it's all about the new places. And we sometimes forget these here two restaurants. I mean, think about the restaurants that I go to often. I mentioned Romans before. Yeah. I go to Romans. I love Romans. Yeah. Romans has an incredible identity that has continued through even, I think, four chefs now. and all those chefs have done a really great job of continuing to to to kind of pay homage to what it was in the beginning and that's what we want to continue to do and that's why people go back like i go back there because i know that i can have really great pasta which i don't cook myself um in the restaurant so i know that i can go to chrissy's pizza you know that you know they've only been open for a year they're probably in year two now and it's the same high quality like super tasty thing you know the restaurants that i go back to over and over again have continued to work on their quality and also have people that are there in place to to work on that you know and so for us building regulars is just continuing to provide them the thing that they came to us for in the beginning or at least the second time yeah you know well said aaron on this is taste we ask guests about the discerning taste so to close this interview here's a little rapid fire fast and furious taste check are you ready okay rapid fire the best fruit best fruit tomato the worst vegetable kale not because of kale but what we've done to kale uh a vegetable can't be everything and uh that's my answer what's the worst example of kale that you've seen just let's go there i mean kale chips come on no one wants that it's one of those recipes you see i don't want kale in my smoothie please don't i will front that putting kale in my smoothie just for fiber but yeah kale chips don't i don't get it especially making them at home but bless those who try what is your typical breakfast i don't need breakfast coffee with milk i've had i think i've had i've seven chefs I've spoken with for various projects in the past month, and every single one said that.

1:08:32Well, we have to eat. We have a marathon of eating that happens throughout our day. Yeah. And for me, if I eat breakfast, it sets my metabolism on rapid fire, and it makes me want to just eat so much. And then I'm full by the time I'm fully tasting. Yeah. And I'm full during service. and I tell this to my cooks. It gets really hard to cook well when you're really full because you want to be able to eat. So I try to keep it tight in the beginning of the day. So it's like suppressing that engine from going because you need to be able to taste your way through prep. So are family meals kind of light for you guys with that in mind?

1:09:14I mean, no, we make family meals that people want to eat and I try to not eat them. Do you ever order in for family? No, not really. No, you cook usually? Yeah. The best dessert. The best dessert. My mom, for my birthday, always made a snowball cake, which I don't even know where it came from. But it's very Florida. It's like angel food cake, and there's like pineapple and cherries, and it's like held in some sort of like gelatin. Oh, cool. And it's covered with like Cool Whip and coconut. It looks like a snowball. And it's like the thing that I want for dessert only, basically. And just generally, coconut desserts are my secret thing.

1:10:04I love coconut. When they're good, they're good. I mean, coconut cream pie, when it's good, it's good. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead? Prune, probably? Yeah. I actually didn't get to eat there very much. I ate there one time. I should have eaten there more. and I think that they're still doing something like some sort of events or something in the space but I've recently because one of my sous chefs, Theo he brought the prune book in and I immediately order it myself and it's been a real inspiration to me recently I think that that kind of cooking although what we do is different there's a through line in the inspiration and I wish that I could go and have like the real thing.

1:10:48Yeah. And maybe one day. I mean, what a stacked deck of cooks there too in certain eras. Amazing place. Speaking of cookbooks, do you have a favorite cookbook of all time? I have this one Spanish cookbook that probably is like the biggest inspiration for us in both restaurants. It's called Culinaria Spain. I kind of want to not say it, but... You can say it. You said it very quickly. um and culinary makes a bunch of books there's like a france one there's um and i got this book i probably bought it on thrift books which is mainly where i get cookbooks from and i found myself going back to it over and over and over again and i love going through a cookbook um usually backwards because i'm looking at pictures and i like to do it in multiple seasons and i like see and different things speak to me at different times and that's that's the one for me yeah now we kind of we call it the bible it's big it's like a big coffee table book beat up it has like so many pictures and specifically these kind of like a whole page or a fold-out page of just like tapas and it's just like 30 plates of tapas it's it's very cool and i'm surprised no one's making books like this anymore.

1:12:10I'm sure it takes a lot of money and work. But they, it is. I'll tell you, we're into putting in the work here at Penguin Random House. The money part, you know, talk. I think it's great. It's so good. I'm going to seek this out personally. Thanks for that, Rack. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? I drive to the Catskills a lot. So that's when I eat fast food, unfortunately. I think fast food is really bad. just on like the way it tastes. Out of like the main three, like Burger King or Wendy's or McDonald's, I think I seek out the Wendy's exit. Oh, interesting. Cool. I think that it's usually better.

1:12:55And unfortunately, I eat it. Sometimes you got to do it. Yeah. Fair enough. It is what it is. Not a ringing endorsement for Wendy's. Not McDonald's. Okay. I know I've heard some people say McDonald's, you know. Yeah, on the show. In particular, we're very pro McDonald's on the show. So just saying that. But it's okay. I'm not judging. I think that's, I have not been to Wendy's in a decade. So I might, except I hit the mint frosty one time. That should, that's good. Frosty and French fries. Oh yeah. It's pretty good. That's a simple order. That is actually very good. That's the key order there.

1:13:27That's what I'm thinking about. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food. Montreal. Is that outside of America? I think it might be. Would you consider that? I very much do. I love Montreal because it's super close. It's like an hour flight from here. If you drive, it's six hours. And it's literally like going into a totally different country. It just feels awesome there. I go there quite a bit, actually. I think I've been like five or six times. I always end up going in the winter. I wish I would go there in the summer more often. But the amount of restaurants there that are of high quality and in different kind of like tiers of restaurants.

1:14:06It's amazing. Last one, your favorite sandwich. My favorite sandwich can only be eaten over two months of the year, which is a tomato sandwich. Yeah. And only during peak tomato season. And all it needs to have on it is bread. Bread can be like not that good bread or very good bread. Doesn't actually matter. Really good tomato, mayonnaise and salt and pepper. and that's all I need. Into that choice. What's the mayonnaise choice though? I grew up eating both Hellman's and Duke's and I love Duke's and Hellman's is more accessible and that's what I usually have. Fair. But also homemade mayonnaise is better than both of them.

1:14:49I would say so, chef. You're going to make your own mayonnaise. Yeah, I'm the mayo guy. Spain has some good mayonnaise too. Absolutely. I picked one up when I was there as a little red top to it. Oh, cool. So I love it. But yeah, make your own mayonnaise. If you can, but also Hellman's and Dukes are great. Yeah, Hellman's and Dukes is great. Aaron Crotter, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thanks so much for having me.

1:15:17This Is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Barbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, Director of Media Production and Development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.