657: Eater’s Fall Cookbook Preview with Bettina Makalintal

26:05I think one thing about it too is that the essays in this are really strong also, and they're kind of unexpected. Like, she has an essay of sort of using the, like, right, like lots of people write about winter tomatoes and like why you wouldn't want to eat one or like why they're, you know, why it's proof of why you should eat seasonally or whatever. But Hedy uses it as this way to sort of talk about like how essential it is for like women to create things, especially when they're sort of like misunderstood and things like that. And so I think that writing is really strong. But the thing that also blew my mind is that she cooked all of the dishes and shot them in real time while actually having gatherings with people.

26:41Yeah. And I'm just like, wow. Like, you know, the fact that she's such a reliable and talented recipe developer, but is also like so good at cooking her own food and shooting it and styling it. I'm like, wow, I can only hope to be like you one day. I love this book. Like Anna, previous host, and Eliza have interviewed Heddy. And I've never had the opportunity. So maybe I can make this happen. She's also just so kind. She's rad. Yeah. She's super cool. Next book is Family Tie by Arnold Mint and Kat Thompson. Eliza and I talked about it on our own preview. And it's a really great story. And it's not set in New York, L.A., San Francisco.

27:23It's as a different approach. Tell me about it. Yeah. Yeah. So one thing to shout out to with this book is the co-author, Kat Thompson, is an editor at Eater. So, yeah. So it's nice to have that like also tied in. Kat Thompson, shout out, you know, doing the double duty editor and co-writer. I've done that myself. Not easy. But so one thing that's interesting about this book is that Arnold's family like ran a Thai restaurant in Nashville that I think opened in the 70s. And so some of the dishes in the book and what he writes about in the book are sort of this like challenge of introducing Thai food to people in Nashville who perhaps weren't familiar with it.

27:57And this was also a time when ingredients were less available. So I think it does a really interesting thing of sort of highlighting sort of that immigrant adaptation when they're sort of in a new place and trying to sort of bridge that gap with new diners. And so there's dishes in there, for example, that he says like one is sort of like a precursor to cow soy, but his mom called it like Indian noodles, I think, because I think it uses curry powder, if I'm correct. And so I think that's really interesting, the way that it sort of spotlights this sort of like this like precursor to like the huge boom in like modern Thai food that we have now.

28:32Fascinating. Fascinating book. So it's taking these recipes that we've in cookbooks for the past decade have really scrutinized the traditional origins. But it's just taking these recipes and going back in time and looking at how, you know, immigrants to America thought about these classic recipes and calling it Indian noodles instead of khao soi by its name. Fascinating approach. And so one thing I also find really interesting about this book is that he purposely chooses not to include recipes like Pad Thai or Tom Yum and like writes that his goal like that, you know, that those dishes already have a lot of airtime.

29:08And so he wants to focus more on things that are like a little bit more overlooked. Like, for example, there's a soup that it translates to bland soup. Yeah. And this is something like I'd never heard of. And it's not something I see on menus. And so it's really interesting to see a book, you know, put a spotlight on those things. And it's a book that also feels really accessible. For example, like there's a recipe in there for a chicken dish that is that he says that like he doesn't serve it at the restaurant because so many of the so many of the ingredients are canned and processed. But the upside to that is that it makes it really accessible for a home cook, especially someone who isn't who like doesn't have a big sort of pantry of Thai staples.

29:43You know, like you can pretty easily get those things. And so I like the way it sort of threads that line between like overlooked things, but also like trying to make things approachable for people. And it's done with like ultimate authenticity. authenticity. You know, these are the recipes that his family, you know, created and he grew up eating. So it's not just trying to do quick hacks. It actually has a history to it. And having Kat Thompson on the project, you know, having a journalist as the collaborator and really having that eye for story, terrific mix there. Yeah, it's a great book. Next book we have to talk about is definitely the season's biggest book.

30:17It's a new one from Samin Nasrat. It's been several years since the debut of Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat and Samin's rise in food media and just really international acclaim with her Netflix series and just being awesome, frankly. And I think it's very anticipated. Eliza and I have chatted about it as well. We're going to have Samin on the show. What is your take on this book? Yeah, I think that Good Things, Samin's new book, really sort of is such proof of why everyone loves Samin so much. You know, I think she's really, I think one thing she's really good at in both like her writing and sort of her like public persona is like really threading this needle between like food as joyful, but also sort of like experiencing the harder parts of life and how that sort of affects your food.

31:02You know, she writes in the book about sort of experiencing loss and depression and sort of coming out of a hard time sort of post pandemic. And so this book is really, you know, I think that if salt, fat, acid, heat feels very like technical, good things almost feels kind of like spiritual like the whole premise this sort of whole through line is like it's like these like these like good little things that you have in your that you have in your like pantry or your kitchen or like good ways to gather with people and I think this is just like it's a very earnest book that feels very um you know it also feels very sort of real to how people cook whereas where you know I think salt fat acid heat is such a it's such a reliable like tome right yeah but you're maybe not pulling it out all the time when you like just want you like sometimes you just like do want someone to tell you what to do in the kitchen and so good things i think like it provides more of that like it understands that the reality of cooking for people is that sometimes they do actually just want to be told like here's how you make this dish yeah um but it's also just written in such a samina is a really good writer and and salt fat acid heat you know obviously goes a lot into her sort of like her like history with cooking but this book feels like very personal and it's also very literary like there are like there's like she references like Audra Lorde and like Robin Malkimer and so and like Annie Dillard and it's just like it's also just like a pleasure to read and it feels very joyful and very like it is sort of like Hedy's book where it makes you want to cook with people.

32:23Well Samina's always had the literary chops I think Salt Fat Acid Heat if you're reading it as a work is just such a pleasure read as well full of stories and of course the technical know-how and that kind of launched her into the world but there was she's a terrific writer and you've called it out well with her literary references. Let's move on to the new book from Alison Roman. I've had this book for a long time. We published Alison. So I've been along the journey here at Clarkson Potter. I've always been a fan of Alison's books. This is her fourth. And I think you can put the first three into a grouping of Alison Roman books.

32:56And now we've got a new era for Alison. I think the art program is incredible. I think they just absolutely nailed it. It looks very different from her first three books. And I think she's hinted on social media and in her terrific newsletter that, you know, this may be her quote unquote adult book or something, a bit of a maturation process for her. And the last thing about Allison is I just think she's a terrific writer. She can write her pants off. I think if you subscribe to her newsletter, you just know that she actually thinks about and considers the head notes and considers the framing of these recipes.

33:28And there's amazing essays as well. I'm sorry, I just gave my preview. You're here to preview it. But I want to get your take too, because I think I'm very biased with Alison. She's a friend. And we published her, as I mentioned. But, you know, Eater has called out this book as one of the season's best. Yeah. I mean, I think that when we think about people who have been influential in sort of home cooking as at large in the United States over the past decade or five years, like she's probably the top name, right? You know, I think there's recipes in this book that some of the recipes, I think the idea for them, if not the exact recipe, it seemed to have appeared first like in her newsletter.

34:04And so or a while ago. And so I like I didn't realize sort of until going through this book that I had already sort of worked them into my cooking routine. For example, like her take on sort of eggplant parm, where instead of breading and frying the eggplant, you are like roasting it and then putting breadcrumbs in between the layers. So you get the same vibe, but not the work. And I think that's what she really excels at is just this like ability to like sort of, you know, I think that's what every recipe developer wants to do is sort of like make you feel like you came up with it. And it's just so ingrained in your life that you make it all the time without really thinking like, oh, yeah, I got it from this book.

34:37And so I think this book is just full of dishes like that where I'm like, OK, this is very simple. It's very much like things that I don't have to run out to the store to get. You know, I've realized I like because of Alison Roman, I stock my pantry already full of like anchovies, tomatoes, parm. And so I just find it like a very, very like cookable book. And there's like because it's so heavily emphasizes sort of pantry cooking. It feels really like it feels really useful throughout the whole year. You know, where I think that like like Alison's previous books, I feel like it's feel a little bit more sort of reliant on like nice produce or like sort of having something that's perfect in the moment.

35:14And this book is much more about like, OK, you don't you know, it's like January and you don't have anything exciting. But like here's a recipe to make cabbage really good. And it's you know, and it's like really relies on these things that are like very easy to find. They're not expensive. And I do think that especially sort of like with the state of the economy, I think that is sort of what home cooks are looking for right now. They're not trying to find like the they're not trying to like run out and find a really expensive tomato, but they will have tomatoes on the shelf. Or canned tomatoes.

35:41Yeah. And I'll say two other things. I think the pasta section is like impressive. She makes a good pasta. She makes a great pasta. She really focused on it. I think she could have written a straight pasta book and maybe that's in her future as well. It's a very healthy section. And it's not just, you know, the scallion pastas that we know. There's a bunch of new ones in there as well. And she's a real Italy lover. It's clear. The other thing is, is to be clear, there aren't any dessert recipes in this book because her previous book had covered desserts really thoroughly. and she didn't feel the need to like shoehorn in a few desserts at the end.

36:16I thought that was a smart choice. Yeah, I'm like a very solidly savory person who never makes dessert at home. And so that really spoke to me because I feel like, you know, I like that the book really sort of maximizes. Like I'm going to cook through most of it, you know, because it is like savory. There's not going to be this whole section that I kind of just like ignore. And so I appreciate that. There's not like a cocktail section either. I mean, it's just a really smart book editorially. It's really, really focused. and I think if you own one or all of Allison's books, do not sleep on this one because it's very different.

36:46So let me ask you, when you're a savory person, I mean, when you're at home cooking, what is for dessert if you're not baking for you? Oh, I just don't do dessert. You just don't do it. I want more savory. Yeah, if anything, I'm like, okay, like I want a bag of chips, but yeah, like I've had like one bag of gummies on my shelf for like two months and I haven't finished them because I really like desire it that infrequently. Well, if you've listened to a previous episode with Kuchpooshah, you know that gummies are better when aged. So you're aging your gummies. That's true. These are the Jolly Rancher ones, and I feel that they don't age in the same way as a gummy bear.

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38:43Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts. There's big talk about cooking simplicity, but you're usually left with disappointment after smashing that promo code. Now, Clayton, have you ever tried one of those subscription boxes? Yeah, Matt, my friend gave me a code for that one that has all the chopped vegetables in little baggies. I felt like a drug dealer trying to cook dinner. Yeah, man, I have so been there.

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40:36Let's Party by Dan Pelosi. And Having People Over by Chelsea Fagan. And this category also includes Jake Cohen's Dinner Party Animal, which I really like. So there's really just boom of party books. How did you pick these three? Yeah, I mean, I think that it felt very essential to have party books on the list because it does feel like the theme is everyone wants to party. You know, I think Dan Pelosi just brings such a sort of like, like such joy to cooking and to the kitchen. And so and I think his book really sort of like brings that forth. You know, I just am always envious when I'm looking at his Instagram of like the types of parties that he has.

41:11And so it felt very natural for him to do a book on that. And this book does feel very sort of comprehensive. And I like the recipes and I like the sort of vibe that he creates. And so the Brie Larson and Courtney McBroom book is very like it's very maximalist partying. I think the one thing that this like sort of moment in books is really making clear is that we're not in the Alison Roman like having people over a moment anymore. This is like themed. This is like activities. This is there's a recipe in the Brie Larson Courtney McBroom book for like dueling roast chickens. Right. For like a party.

41:41And if you have two ovens and you're Brie Larson and I'm sure she has three. And you have like a lot of friends. Yeah. A lot of friends. You can do that. Maybe not for every home cook. Yeah. And then so and so I think that that really was interesting just because it is so sort of like over the top and fun. It really does feel celebratory. And then having people over the Chelsea Fagan book is sort of this like I feel like if you know if Samin's book and Hedy's book exist on like the gatherers. end and then party people and let's party are on this other end I feel like having people over is sort of in the center where it is like you know it is about like the importance of having a dinner party and she is very interested in sort of like um hosting and being a good host but it doesn't feel quite as like over the top as like you know having a activity set and like you know decor that matches the theme um and I think that book is also having people over is also interesting because it it has some sort of like essays that make you that are like meant to make you think a little bit like there's one about sort of curation versus consumerism and this sort of tendency for people to you know I think it is very true that dinner parties as much as they are about gathering have also become this big moment on social media to sort of just like to sort of perform you know and to like sort of get attention through the like perfect tomato themed ceramics that you bought right and so I find it interesting to see a book that tries to sort of resist that sort of social media fuel tendency.

43:03And I think Chelsea is a journalist through and through. So it's a little different framing than a recipe developer. And so there's a little more cultural study there. Yeah. And there's also a chapter, for example, about sort of like cultivating grown up communities and sort of like how to sort of like sort of how to do hosting in a way that feels good for you. And so I think that book is really interesting and sort of like the ideology of it. Well, it speaks volumes that Brie Larson's book is on here because, you know, actor books, mileage may vary with books by actors who maybe aren't in the food world.

43:35But clearly with Courtney McBroom writing Shotgun, this book has real editorial chops. Yeah, this book, it's very packed. I feel like sometimes those can feel a little bit flimsy. This one feels very packed with like, not only recipes, but sort of like, ideas for like, how to have the party and like visual inspiration. And so it does feel really useful if you are someone who wants to sort of have big themed gatherings, especially. You mentioned Korean temple cooking earlier in this conversation. And I haven't had a chance to check this out, as I mentioned. I am very curious. This is a topic that I hold near and dear.

44:10And I think in my work with Koreatown and Korea World, we dipped into Korean temple cuisine in chapters but not in book form. And this is the book that I've heard many have wanted to write. And finally, it's arrived. Tell me about it. I think this book is very interesting right now because like I obviously don't have to tell you that like Korean food is really booming right now. Right. But that's a very but I feel like this is a very different side of Korean food than what we sort of tend to see in this sort of like this book is sort of like not very flashy. It's like kind of quiet and slow. It's very much about sort of like the philosophy and like the process of cooking and like making these foods.

44:48And it's just like the photos are so beautiful. This is one that, you know, like I said, like even if the recipes are not totally approachable to you in terms of like timing or ingredients, it's totally worth reading. And it's just like a beautiful sort of coffee table moment as well. Yeah, it feels like it really captures, you know, it feels like it really captures the process of certain dishes being made. It feels very evocative of the atmosphere of what it might be like to be there. And this is from Honam Silman. And I would hope that it would be a little bit more of a quiet approach to this style of cooking.

45:21And honestly, the photography is everything with this type of book. I think you really need to see the way that temple cuisine is presented. Because to me and in visiting, I've had the pleasure of visiting several temples in Korea and in the States. It's some of the most thoughtful and well-presented food I've ever seen. Yeah, I think also like, you know, I think even it's also very inspiring to just in the sense of sort of like figuring out how to sort of plate food. Like it's very it's very sort of well thought out and taken care of. And so I really appreciate that sort of inspiration. Well, we have a couple more.

45:57And please definitely check out the full preview. Link is in the show notes. When Michael W. Twitty writes about recipes from the American South, what is he what is he writing about? I think he's really, you know, so he is like trained as a historian. He's done so much research. But he's really writing about sort of like lineages and sort of different influences in the American South sort of intersect. And I think this is a book that's really, you know, it reads like you're reading like sort of a historical textbook. You know, I think one thing I find very interesting about the headnotes is that they're very focused on sort of like the people or the cookbooks that sort of like gave rise to a dish.

46:34Right. And so I think that feels very different from just like reading. It's not a cookbook that sort of like purely sees itself as like functional and like copying the recipe. It's a book that's very much about like this is where it came from and this is these are sort of like the things that made it possible. So this is a real historical view of Southern cooking. So it travels through time in the pages? Yes, definitely. And it also sort of goes through the sort of debates that people have around Southern food. For example, he goes into this dish called Brunswick stew and the head note is all about how much sort of debate there is over whether it's Carolinian or Virginian or Georgian.

47:15And so it's really sort of like this, like, it's a very, like, comprehensive and foundational sort of, like, understanding of Southern cooking. Yeah. I can't wait to read that. I know we're having Michael on the show later this fall to talk about it, and we'll hear more about it. The next book we're going to talk about is one I really love. It's called Steakhouse by Eric Wareheim and Gabe Ulla. And it's a book that I've had really early. We publish it here, so full disclosure there. And I think it is such a smart book. It really covers the American steakhouse and all of its incredible permutations and some history.

47:52It has a lot of personality. And I was happy you called it out. What drove you to that one? So I think one thing that's really interesting to me about this book is that the steakhouse feels so sort of like at odds with the idea of cooking at home, right? Because the whole point of the steakhouse and the appeal of it is that you are like transported into this place where you almost feel like a different person. and it feels like such a sort of break from real life. And so like as much as this book does have the recipes, which like I will say I'm not very good at making steak. I appreciate any tips to making a better one.

48:25You know, as much as this book does have some recipes, it is very much like an homage and sort of like a love letter to all of the major steakhouses around the country. And like, you know, it really spotlights sort of like the veteran servers, the hosts, like there's all these pictures of sort of the people that make these like steakhouses into these sort of like mythic places that we love. And so, you know, I really appreciate the sort of breadth in which that it covers the steakhouse. I'm so glad you wrote about this book. You know, we love steakhouses. I think we're obsessed with places like Houston's and Keen's and we think about steakhouses a lot, but like many of these smaller steakhouses in communities outside of the coastal cities and maybe Chicago don't get coverage.

49:08And this book does that. They even go to Mexico too, too, which I think is really interesting. Yeah, it just feels like a book that was done with so much passion and care. And like, you know, it feels like they really took the time to sort of like dive into why these places are so important. And it's a book that really like, does it make me want to cook a steak at home? If anything, no, it sort of like proves that I'm not good at that. But it does really, really make me want to go to a steakhouse. And I think it really like does a really good job of sort of like showing the allure of these places, you know?

49:36Well, that's it for our books that we're gonna talk about on the show. And I think there's many more. So definitely check that link. But Bettina, I have to ask you, in looking at the big fall season and thinking about titles, are there any topics or categories or styles of cooking that you wish were represented more in this season? You know, I think this was a pretty exciting season in terms of just like the sheer breadth of books that we saw. I think one thing I am personally very excited to see more of is like sort of narrative cookbooks and cookbooks that like push the form of the cookbook, you opposed to just like essays and the head notes mostly and so for example like one thing i'm very excited about is obviously friend of the pod tanya bush's will this make me happy um and so yeah i'm just like curious to see you know people like sort of question what a cookbook is and it would be interesting i would love to see sort of like mainstream publishers uh put a little bit of more support behind that because i feel like i feel like i see these a lot from like little indie projects right um but i think tanya's book is a very promising sign i agree tanya's book is is much anticipated here on the show.

50:42I think it's a great point. I want to tap into that briefly. I think with Substack and this really robust food and drink column that you can go directly to at the Substack homepage, you're seeing this. You're seeing these voices appear who are writing about recipes, but with very long essays or head notes around these recipes and with real point of view. And if you follow along, There's narrative arcs happening in some of these sub stacks if you're following along for months and months. And I know all the editors here in the building are reading sub stack. And I think you're right. There should be more of these books that are kind of a blend of cookbook and narrative.

51:24But like let's push it forward. And I know Tanya, her book covers this. I've not read it, but I'm sure it does. It's like let's actually have a narrative arc in a cookbook. Or even, you know, even in food memoir, I feel like food memoir is so often is so often like here is the essay and then here's the recipe at the end of it. Right. They feel like somewhat disjointed pieces. Yeah. And so one book that, you know, one of my favorite books that I think really pushes this is Rebecca Mae Johnson's Small Fires, which really sort of like, you know, I think the language she uses that she is that she like wanted to like blow up the kitchen and like deconstruct it.

51:57Right. And so everything is very sort of like, you know, it's very sort of interspersed and woven together. like the experience of cooking a recipe as opposed to just like telling you about it and then giving you the recipe. And so I think, yeah, I'm very, it's like obviously not the most like functional, i.e. I'm like not reading that book to like make a red sauce. But I do think it makes you think about the act of cooking very differently. Finney editors are listening and I know many are. Those Roads and Kingdoms books by Matt Golding from years ago, those books, like that was a real, that's a travelogue.

52:28So it's not necessarily a cookbook, but it's certainly food is at the center. I could see that happening too, where more like narrative travelogue cookbooks can appear where it's actually like a journey that we're following along. Yeah, that'd be awesome. I think it would be very cool. Great points there. Thanks. Bettina Makalintal, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you for having me.

52:52This Is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.