664: Food Writers Talking About Food Writing with Elyse Inamine & Matt Rodbard

25:24And I realized I like didn't really know anything. I kind of just knew like what I grew up with. And so as I was getting more into food media, I was just more curious. And so I would like seek out different chefs like Sheldon or talk to like cultural practitioners and just try to understand more of like this really, really unique food culture that I've come to love and really identify with, but didn't know like a ton about growing up. And I still feel like I'm learning every day. and it's like such an interesting one where there's like these indigenous roots but there's also these immigrant roots and how they all kind of mingle together on this small chain of islands and like make such a unique food culture.

26:02I was just really interested. Yeah, in this piece, you write about indigenous cuisine and how it's different in the immigrant cuisine and I think farming plays a role. What to you would be a great way for our listeners to visit Hawaii and understand just focusing on the traditional cuisine. Yeah, I think like what's interesting is part of the piece when we were working on it is we actually, there's a time where we thought about having like a, how to visit Hawaii. Sidebar. Yeah, thoughtfully. And like, as I was talking to different like chefs and just like people there, like it felt more and more like not the right thing to do.

26:43And I think part of it was because of the nature of this, the way that we approach like doing this package is we wanted to allow locals there to tell their own story and to focus on Hawaii as like a like a place not that you can take something away from but as it is and so I think like it was really interesting we never ended up running a tourism part I think because we just wanted it to be focused on as like not a place to visit but more like this is people's homes and and so I think like that's something that like I think about a lot is like it whenever I go it is a second home for me, but it's not like the place that I live like all the time.

27:21And like, I feel very privileged to like know different people there who like give me insight and connect me with other people. But I think it's definitely like a place that's like, you know, it's an island and like there's a certain mutuality like when you live on an island. And I think like that's taught me a lot about like how do you relate with like people and places and like resources and like how do you respect them and um and kind of like hold them in a way that is um i don't know just like understanding what it is versus like trying to analyze it too much or like or pick it apart or take something from it and just appreciate it how did you decide on the oral history format because i think it's unique in that you have all this space you wrote a beautiful introduction some of you were writing in there but a lot of it is oral history it's you you know in the as told to essentially um so how did you land on that and like tell us a few folks you spoke with yeah so actually um it basically came out of jen choy who was the editor who assigned who asked me if i wanted to work on this with her she had done a very similar package um about appalachia for bonap maybe a couple one or two years ago and it got nominated for an as me which is really cool and And I think Bon App was like, let's do it again.

28:34And so, like, let's try Hawaii. Always hunting those Azmes, those Condé Nast editors, you know. They have, like, a room full of Azmes. They have a floor full of Azmes there at Condé Nast. Yeah. So it took us, like, a year of just, like, reaching out to different, like, chefs and scholars and cultural practitioners. And kind of being, like, talking to them and asking about, you know, how would you describe your relationship to Hawaii? What is the food of Hawaii? And these are questions that were really hard for people to answer, even people who, like, grew up there. And then we would be like – and then, of course, everyone was like, and you should talk to, like, these five other people.

29:11Oh, isn't that great? Which was awesome because then there are people who I would have never thought to, like, connect with or, like, I had just been wanting to for a while. So one of the people that was really cool that I got to talk to is Sam Choi in OG. He was part of – one of the founding members of Hawaii Regional Cuisine. Yeah. Yeah. And he is like the godfather of poke, essentially. And he was like so fascinating to talk to, especially as like poke has become like this global phenomenon and how he sees like that is a good thing. And not everyone sees that. But I think for him, he sees like if we have this good thing in Hawaii, I want to share it.

29:47And also I see poke in many other cuisines. And he was explaining like, you know, in different places that he would travel to and how he would try like like a herring dish. and that was like I think in Rotterdam or something he's like this reminds me of poke and it was really cool because like we were in Hawaii to like report some of this out and we actually went to me and Jen and Sylvie who was on our team at that point too we were working on some social video stuff too we went to a beach where he actually first tried poke and so then I texted him and I was like oh we're at the beach that you're at he called me immediately and he was It's like, if you look this way, like, this is where I was standing where, like, this fisherman handed me, like, some salty fish.

30:32And that was, like, the first time that I had poke. And it was, like, really special to, like, be at the place where, like, for him it all happened. Amazing that he was responsible for kind of initiating this poke. What makes great poke to you? I think it's a lot of it is just whatever is super fresh. And also, like, local to you. Like, I don't expect to eat, like, aji here, for example. Yeah. And I think there's also like interesting ways of like preparation. Like there's certain like really popular ways of like eating it in Hawaii. Like there's like the cold ginger style, which is usually applied to chicken, but they apply it to poke.

31:08So I like that. So I think for me, like whatever is like the freshest, like it's fun too if like you meet somebody and they're like, my uncle or cousin caught this. And you're like, that makes it taste even better to me. I mean, I just remember Umeke's on the big island is a place I enjoyed poke. Oh. It was my spot. and I think I mentioned that in a previous episode someone wrote in and said that place is trash I'm like okay well I'll go this is why we love this format but I think what they were doing they were doing that soy ginger style that's my mom's favorite I love that but it can go creamier too yeah like there's definitely like spicy mayo is like a thing there's like a miso version you can kind of do anything you can put some koopi in there too yeah you could put koopi in there I think what about produce let's close the Hawaii talk because I think We're linking to it in the show notes.

31:54Definitely check out the piece. But what about produce? Because we think about, obviously, pineapple. That's the one that we – but there's much more in the agriculture in Hawaii than one single crop. Right. And I think it's really interesting because a lot of this is introduced by Native Hawaiians who had canoe crops and brought it to Hawaii and created, like, these amazing, like, agricultural systems that connected, like, land and water in ways that are, like, still amazing today, especially as like a lot of different people are working towards like restoring these old land management systems.

32:27Probably like the most important ingredient there is kalo, which is taro. And it's really cool. Like we went to Waipa Foundation on Kauai and they're taking like old – I think the fields used to be rice fields. So it's watery and then they have – they're now like repurposing it to be kalo. And it's really cool to see like how they grow in the water. and they were showing us like how there's these like invases that come in that are bright pink. And so they invite children like schools and stuff to like come and crush them. Oh, fun. That's good. But that's like the most important ingredient or in terms of produce because it like all parts of it are used.

33:03Like the, I guess, root, it's root vegetable itself is like pounded into poi. The leaves are used to wrap up and like steam into la la. And it's also part of the creation story. So it's, like, really cool how, like, this one specific produce is, like, so important in so many different ways. And it's cool to, like, also enjoy it there and, like, see the different varieties as well. I love that. Really, really smart stuff to think about that crop and the many ways it's used in Hawaii. And I love the piece. So congratulations for writing that. Our next story, our final story. A legendary Hell's Kitchen hellhole is back from the dead.

33:41New York Magazine is the publication. Steve Garbarino is the writer. And this piece, I thought it really spoke to me because Siberia Bar is a place that I've been going to since pretty much I moved to New York. The piece is about, of course, Siberia Bar. It opened in 1996 at the 1-9 station in the 50th and Broadway stop. That was the one that Anthony Bourdain famously wrote about in Kitchen Confidential and pretty much said it was his favorite bar forever and like his million of media interviews. That location closed in 2001. Before that, there was a lot of like media and SNL cast and plenty of people went there.

34:21But when it closed, there was a little bit of a gap. It opened again in Hell's Kitchen in this like standalone spot at 40th and 9th. That place was insane. I got to go, I went to, I've been to the previous two and this new one I haven't been to. My story about the second location is this. I was working at WWE at the time at the magazine wrestling that is and yeah i was like what wwe wrestling yeah i'm like i've talked about in the pod that is my past uh really really interesting time i was an editor i was a senior editor at the magazine at wwe we were in new york the the offices were in stanford we worked up there but we happened to be in new york and we uh had a championship belt with us uh it wasn't a real one but it was like one of the more expensive ones that were like a high quality high quality uh wrestling belt that somebody had brought along we were having some drinks after work a bunch of my colleagues working at that magazine and we go to Siberia bar because that's where you go I guess when you work in media worked with some dudes from Maxim and there was like a bit of a media thing there at the time so going with the belt we sit down at Siberia ordering drinks and stuff we're sitting there with the belt a couple people are looking at us whatever all of a sudden um two dudes like rush up to us and start asking us a million questions are extremely excited kieran culkin and macaulay culkin wait that's who came up to you yeah yeah oh my gosh wait what are they asking you so those guys are famously really into wrestling like kieran like they're they're big wrestling heads which is cool that is why they came up to us uh kieran kieran was it was i think Like in Igby Goes Down or like he was like a small role that at the time wasn't who we know today.

36:05And then McCauley was McCauley Culkin. Jesus Christ, McCauley Culkin. Lovely in exchange 20 years ago. I have a few memories of the evening, but they were lovely people. But I guess my point is that that is the kind of thing that would happen at Siberia Bar. A lot of people would hang out there late night and stuff would happen. And that was my story. But back to the New York Magazine story. the bar that I went to the one in Hell's Kitchen it closed in the early 2010s and it's been kind of dark it's been like IP just waiting for it to be opened or used again well that IP has been thrust into our world with the recent acknowledgement of the opening of the new Siberia Bar right around the corner from our offices yeah I was like it's super close to here yeah it's Columbus Circle the 57th and 8th train station is now back in its proper subterranean subway form.

36:56The owner of Siberia Bar is a gentleman named Tracy Westmoreland. He's owned all three iterations. A fascinating guy. I've read about him. I've seen him at the bar. I hope he comes on the podcast one day. I would love to ask him things. That'd be a good one. It would be great. The new location is very small. Eight bar stools. It's 12 foot high ceilings. It's only 750 square feet. There's no bathroom. You can use the bathroom in the subway station. and as the writer points out really really well in this piece and I think this piece is worth reading because it's kind of about Siberia but about also this culture the dive bar the dive is kind of dead in New York he does note that places like Milano's Spring Lounge Shark Bar Johnny's Bar and Jimmy's Corner are still there these are places that are famously a little rough around the edges open early and openly and I kind of thought about dives and I was like what happened to the dives?

37:51What happened to Motor City? Did you ever go to Motor City? No, I never went. Lower East Side, man. That was my dive. But I love this piece because it's like about one thing but there's more going on in the piece. What did you think about this? Do you have any Siberia's bar story? Yeah. Well, I haven't ever been but I feel like now I'm like so curious about your WWE background. I have to ask you about it because I grew up watching a lot of wrestling as a kid. Like, you know, sorry, this is like a tangent. It's like, I feel like growing up in the 90s, your parents didn't really know what you were watching on TV all the time.

38:22So I watched a lot of wrestling and a lot of Ren and Snippy. Like Raw, SmackDown era? Yeah, I was a big fan of Goldust randomly. Really? Yeah, even though I feel like he got beat up all the time. I got to meet Goldust back in the day. This is like total flex here. Food writers talking about food writing is me flexing on my – yes, maybe one day I'll talk about all the superstars we call them. You should interview yourself for this. Except for making it about wrestling. Yeah, I have great stories. I did sign an NDA, so I'm always aware of that. Oh, what? But it was a really good experience overall.

38:56Okay, yeah, sorry. Siberia, though. I have never been, but I love this story. It reminded me of very Joseph Mitchell, New Yorker profile of people and characters in a place and how all of those things are so New York. So I love this story. and it made me think of dive bars and like you were saying, like kind of dive bar culture and like what's happening. And the place that I go to that I love is Fish Market and Financial District. It's like kind of dive bar, kind of restaurant. But I love that it's like a restaurant that is run by a family. They like truly do not care what people think. Like I remember I had my birthday there like years ago and we were like, can we buy it out?

39:35And they're like, no, we still want to keep it open for our regulars. And I respected that. I liked it that they're like, we exist. We don't care if like you have a minimum like we exist because like we want to and like they don't care about algorithms. They don't care about trends. They just exist for the sake of existing. And I feel like that's something that I think is really cool given like there's so many places that are just like about like vibes and like aura and like trying to like keep up with stuff and like get lines or. Yeah. Or like be on social media or be a place that people want to go to.

40:05And I feel like a dive bar just like because it exists it's important and it knows that. And you really did a nice job of kind of finding what a dive is because I think in this modern age, it's not like the old Mars, which, you know, you couldn't go in the bathroom and it was just like truly disgusting. Now, like you have to actually be like nice. I think Tracy Westmoreland is charging prices that are about a buck under what you would charge at bars in this area. So it's not like you're getting$3 beers anymore. But I love your sentiment because it reminds me of places that are still open that are – I wouldn't call them dives because I wouldn't want to make them feel like they're cheap or anything, but like magician.

40:44Tile bar in the East Village or radio bar or whatever you decide to call it. Welcome to Johnson's is still open, which is insane to me. Yes. Crazy. But it's like they don't care. No. They don't care. But I feel like that's the best part. Like I feel like, I don't know, everything has so much like symbol or meaning or like, you know, there's like, it's not an agenda. it's like i don't know everyone wants to like be known for something and it's like a dive bar it's known for like its clientele and like um like how you feel in it and and like i love like fish market for example because like they're so funny like they just have like i think like huge bottles of jameson and like maybe every 30 minutes they're going around giving shots to everyone um they and like for a long time their door on the outside like the knob fell off or something so it was really hard to like literally get in like you have to try hard to get in like you kind of had to grasp whatever was sort of sticking out to like pull out some in some way and i think like i don't know it's nice to like just go to a place that like just enjoys being itself and like unapologetically and i think that's like something where it's like oh when there's so much like every restaurant's trying to like have a certain take or or whatever especially in new york which is so competitive and i understand like a need to like brand yourself in a certain way, a dive bar is nice, and that the whole point is that there's no brand.

42:02Yeah, and it feels like maybe some of these real estate situations, because they're so old, and maybe they own their real estate, and they can actually do that, and God bless them for having the ability to do what they want to do, in New York City, of all places. I wonder if, like, the, you know, with the kind of dip in this drinking, you know, people aren't drinking as much. That's what I was wondering, too. Yeah. Because I feel like I love Fish Market. I haven't been in a while because I'm not drinking that much anymore. Yeah. But, I I want it to live on because it's just like I think it's like important like the authenticity of it, which is a word that I don't really like using normally because I feel like it can flatten or like put rules around something.

42:40But I think the idea of like something just like being itself, like I really like that. And I feel like we need more places that are like that. And I'm pressured by like the outside media story or social media pressure to be something that they're not. And having a strong point of view. Standings is another one in the East Village, which is more of a sports bar. But I love Standings. I love them then. That's a great go there for NFL. It's so much fun. Okay. We're watching more Vikings games now. Oh, yeah. Vikings. Yeah. They're all right. They are. My husband has a fantasy league. Yeah. It's my family's fantasy league.

43:14Oh, cool. But I do not help at all. But he calls it our team. But it's his team when they're losing. And it's our team when we're winning. But the Vikings defense is our defense. Oh, you have a team defense. Oh, interesting model. I like the team defensing. I like that we're going to WWE. We're going to fantasy sports. I'm more of a fantasy hoops guy personally. But that's my squad. Yeah, I like that. Okay, so great talking stories with you. Before we get to our media taste check, I have to ask you. I've been reading a lot of Conde Nast stuff. I, of course, read the Graydon Carter memoir, which I talked about with Lies on Three Things.

43:48I'm now reading this terrific Condé Nast biography, history. It came out about a month ago. Hearing so much about the glory days of Condé and interesting business structures. I'm going to talk about it a little bit more in a future episode because I have some thoughts and takeaways for modern media. But this is the Graydon Carter question. Let's just say you had the ability to write a feature for Graydon Carter of Andy Fair in 1997, meaning that you had pretty much no budget. You could write it, we'll call it$100 ,000. Truly they're throwing contracts around for that. You had six months to report it.

44:24What would that story be? So I've given this a lot of thought is I would love to write a story about spam, tracing it from its birthplace in Austin, Minnesota, to like how it got to places like Hawaii and like South Korea. And obviously this would a lot of it has to do with the American military presence. But I think it'd be really interesting to see how it went from like this American like military ration to something that is like part like very part of these cultures and beloved in certain ways. And kind of the complicatedness around that, especially as we think about like local foodways and local ingredients and like kind of like this like sudden American like product in like all of these dishes like budajigae or like spam musubi.

45:04So I would love to like go to Spam HQ and like slowly make my way and also try to find out like are there places that I didn't realize Spam was like very prevalent in and like understand like how it entered into the food culture. Love that. I feel like there's been reporting on Spam, but to get this like time to actually go to a place like Mexico where Spam is popular. and, of course, getting to the bottom of Buda Chigae, which still to this day, I hear contradictory stories from Korea about the history of that dish. Oh. You know, I've heard it's arrived even before the American GIs were there and that Spam was present before the war, that this narrative that it was only because the GIs is possibly there's some holes in that argument.

45:47Oh, interesting. Perhaps I'll be reporting on this for something later. But Spamasubi, of course, that's a good one. I mean, I feel like you could do this. All right. Graydon. Graydon. Get in touch. Graydon 97 on the phone. Let's go back in time. I love that idea. From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, an exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story. The 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist.

46:34Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-starred talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus. The full program is available at montrealenlumiere.com. Presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts. There's big talk about cooking simplicity, but you're usually left with disappointment after smashing that promo code. Now, Clayton, have you ever tried one of those subscription boxes?

47:11Yeah, Matt, my friend gave me a code for that one that has all the chopped vegetables in little baggies. I felt like a drug dealer trying to cook dinner. Yeah, man, I have so been there. ButcherBox is a true exception. I was sent a box of premium beef and pork and was blown away by the quality and variety. There was 100 % grass-fed pasteurized ribeye, tri-tip, and ground sirloin for my favorite at-home smash burger recipe. George Motes, you better watch your back. For pork, they sent me a beautiful center-cut pork loin for slow roasting. I was super impressed, and I haven't even talked about the ribs, which I cooked in my Instant Pot.

47:49There was a rub of salt, white pepper, and togarashi, and I had pressure cooked with water and apple cider vinegar. It was incredible. These ButcherBox ribs are amazing. For nearly a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free. As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free protein in every box for a year, plus$20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you.

48:30On This Is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire. Fast and Furious Taste Check Media Edition. Are you ready? What is the first thing you read in the morning and where do you read it? I actually wait until I get to my laptop and I read stuff. because I like to have a nice long coffee with my husband, Travis. And this is his shirt, by the way. I got it in Taiwan for him, but I'm using it. Shout out to Travis. Nice style there. And I like to talk to him. So I was talking to him about, I don't know, what we read or weird dreams that we had.

49:06And then I like to read stuff. And so usually I try to read. It depends on the day. If it's a Tuesday, I'm kind of seeing if the Times restaurant review came out. I love reading Letter of Recommendation. That's like one of my favorite columns. So I'll always see if like the new one came out and then immediately read that. I love that. It's a great column. What do you read on actual paper, if anything? Mostly magazines at this point and cookbooks. I feel like that's like the main thing. So like Harper's, New York Times Magazine, and yeah, cookbooks. Yeah, cookbooks. Did you have a favorite food publication growing up?

49:41I didn't grow up with a lot of food publications. I think because like my family, the way we got like food or like recipes was through Japanese American like community cookbooks from like Buddhist temples or just really large Japanese American families. So that's where all the recipes came from at home. So when did cookbooks enter the mix for you? It was when I started becoming more interested in working in food media. So one of the first cookbooks that I got was one by Anidolo that my parents got me kind of close to when I graduated. Yeah. What a great first cookbook, Anita Lowe. Yeah, classic.

50:13It writes beautiful books. We all have a relationship with food TV and PBS in particular. Did you have a favorite PBS personality or show growing up? Well, so I was just reminded of this because I was like, what was on growing up? And I didn't watch like a ton of PBS as a kid, but like I watched a lot of Mind of a Chef. And recently, Eric Zee, when we were working on cookbook stuff, he sent me the episode where they talk about MSG. And then I started like rewatching it again. And I was like, man, this is such a good show and it still like holds up and it's still I just love like this show because it's like serious about food but doesn't take itself seriously.

50:49Yeah, I thought I feel like I haven't seen anything like that in so long. I love that show. You know, David Chang did the first one. Edward Lee was on there. Tosi was on there. Guys at ZPZ were producing it. Yeah, great show. Really pioneering in many ways. Let's talk about YouTube, TikTok, social video in our world. I just want to be like straight up like where are you at right now with it? Yeah, this is such a funny question. I am not on TikTok. I am barely on Instagram, but I love YouTube, which is maybe why I'm not really on like social media that much. Like I love right now just watching like fishermen, whether they're professional or hobby, go out on the water, catch something, clean it, gut it and then cook with it.

51:34it's very minimal production there's almost like no dialogue there's for sure no music it's just them doing like what they love or what they're good at and I feel like there's something about that that like is very like more like my speed right now I think everything's like really fast or it's like hot takes or like crazy transformations which of course I love like on social media I watch like so many like people like bringing back to life like a mid-century like cabinet or something Yes. And they do it in like five seconds. But obviously it's a lot of work. Yeah. Woodwork, yeah. But there's something nice about seeing somebody just do what they're really good at for a long time.

52:12And like it's almost not – I mean obviously they're filming it and editing it for me to watch it. But it's not really about making it for a viewer. It's like them just doing their thing. And I actually really like that. That camera just happens to be there and they're not like stunned for the camera. Yeah. Actually one guy was funny. Like he's cooking something. You can tell he, like, puts his phone, like, underneath his chin because the angle is really weird of him, like, cooking. And I was like, I love it. Like, you didn't have a tripod and you're just going with it. I love that. Are these getting, like, big streams?

52:39I don't know. Like, I think one of them, it is pretty big, but it's hard because it's all in Japanese. So, like, I can't really tell, like, how big in terms of, like, globally they are. But, like, some of these are, like, really small. But then I think what's also interesting is, like, people are doing this, but then so many people then see it and then just start doing it. So you have like a million people doing versions of this all over the place. Yeah. And it's not like that, like day in the life, whisper voice, TikTok, real. It's like real day in the life, but like long form. Yeah. You just kind of hear people like grunting as they're pulling like a really heavy fish in or something.

53:11That's so rad. That's it. And it's Japanese fishing. Oh, that's so cool. Or it's like different people. Like right now we've been watching, last night we watched like half an hour of these Japanese fishermen and like Miyazaki do stuff. But then we've also watched this one guy who we think is like maybe in Australia fishing. But then he has like kind of Asian-y looking ingredients. Like, I don't know. We just like don't even know who he is. It's all good. You're not like following the creator you're following, just like the channel. Yeah. I mean, we're into his journey. So we're just watching. So cool.

53:40I love YouTube as well. Shout out to Tina Choi. Doobie Doobop. That's my YouTube. I've been watching her vlogs because we're going to Korea soon. Nice. So we were watching her Jejudo one. Yeah. It's all safe. Her career stuff is amazing. I cannot shout her out enough. They moved to Madrid, her and Kevin, and they have a big journey there as well, which is fun. Such a good career. Like just a great chef. Like her knife skills are amazing. Yeah, she's so funny too. She's funny and she's got a good personality. Like the knife skills are sick. Last question. Where do you want to be in five years with your career?

54:15I still want to be freelancing. I love the flexibility of it. I like working on all these different things, whether it's an article or a package or a cookbook. And I would love to, like, continue working on, like, more personal projects, too. So, like, I don't know, like, trying, like, more fiction. Or my mom and I, we've been going through letters from my grandparents. Like, her parents were in the Japanese incarceration camps, and they exchanged, like, hundreds of letters. Now we're, like, going through that, and we want to turn that into something I don't know what. That's really special. So this is me saying it here so that I will do it.

54:51Yeah. We'll have you back in five years and we'll talk to you about that book project. But I know you'll have a great point of view with that story and many other stories. What a pleasure having you on our show. I hope you come back again. Thanks for having me. It was fun.

55:08This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.