677: Is Sourmilk the Graza of Yogurt? Kiki Couchman Bets on Bettering the Microbiome.

24:51And so I think there is like something about that too, where we're thinking about all the opportunities of like, what do we actually need to do? And then how do we make it like an interesting moment? And then you layer on social video. Exactly. From those pop-ups and you reshare and you get people talking that way. And then it's sort of the effect of like, oh, we want to feel like we're everywhere, everything all at once in New York City. Yeah, it's working. I think I found you through Andrea Hernandez at Snackshot, through a mention I followed, and then I followed the journey. And then we're talking.

25:19So I think it's clearly working. Let's talk a little bit about that retail move this fall and how you're approaching one-by-one retailers in New York. I'm really fascinating about who you're targeting and which types of – are we talking about markets? Are we talking about getting into one big box at a time? What are we doing here? Totally. Well, we are talking about smaller grocery stores. So actually our first one is going to be Happier Grocery. I feel like I can say that confidently. And there is like, okay, we have the drug deal in Soho. You know, usually you'd come here. Instead, you're going to go to Happier Grocery, right?

25:54So there's that like immediate funnel there. The broader strategy with this grocery store is we're really opening literally one door at a time, which sounds so slow. Sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, this is going to be so slow. But for us, it's like we are competing with a daily product. We are competing with velocities and whole foods that are, you know, daily. So we have to have, we're not in like a set that is like six a week, right? That's not what we're doing here. Like yogurt is always sold out in a grocery store, which means we need to have really high numbers in order to really be competitive in our category review.

26:31So that's what our plan is, is the fall is really let's, you know, I wouldn't say it's like fudging it. I'd say it's like putting a lot of pointed effort towards one storefront. And having sell through. And having sell through. Exactly. Exactly. And so then we can have really the data we want to feel confident to then expand a lot further and have, and we're having, you know, some conversations with these big bucks, but continuing. I was wondering about like the idea of skipping steps in some ways, or maybe that's negative, but just getting into getting down to Austin and talking to the Whole Foods people, you know, talking to Erwan, obviously.

27:05For sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, are you simultaneously doing all of this? Yes. We're trying to like do it all at the same time, if that makes sense. So with that, there's a complication, which is making the yogurt. Totally. Right. And using, I followed you, use an upstate co-packer and you're there physically there doing test runs. I mean, is this product, it's got to be scalable, right? It is. And our co-man is like, has the ability to scale. They work with other brands that are much bigger than ours. And we're, you know, operating still at a small volume, but like, you know, we just made 4 ,000 yogurts this past run.

27:43Like it's not nothing, you know? So the product you tasted is in a small batch situation. Yeah, it's a 4 ,000 run. Right. It's still like fairly big. And so they have the – they can scale with us. And we've been in the factory floor because we really want to know the process. And we developed the process. We didn't work with the food scientists. We did it all ourselves. Elan is our major product woman. Yeah, she's read – We divide the kind of effort, yeah. So she's read yogurt textbooks. She did Cornell Dairy Course, went super deep, worked really closely with their probiotic supplier. And so that's why we're on the floor is because we're actually managing the floor when it's happening.

28:18Yeah. Every run? Every run. This past run was the first time that we were not on the floor the entire time. Okay. But Matt, I kid you not, we are there till 1 a.m. Yeah. Yeah. It's like we're really on it and we're extra hands. How far away from is it from New York City? It's like 30 minutes outside of Ithaca, so it's like four and a half hours away. So you're using New York State milk. Yes, we are using New York State milk. Interesting. But you're not married to that, which is smart. Yes. Because you can obviously scale and use California dairy. Definitely. And the California dairy has really great resources as well.

28:54Yeah. I love that. I mean, it's really smart because you're thinking big right away, obviously. And you can scale quickly. Dairy forces you to because you can't use a commercial kitchen because you have to have a dairy license. And so actually there's, you know, very little in between. So there's very few yoga startups. There's very few yoga. Yes, there are very few yoga startups. No, there really aren't any. I mean, you get farmer's markets and you get like buzzy brands. Yes. But then you, it's like the big boys. Yes, it's the big boys. It's cool. It's, I mean, what about food service? Do you think about that angle as being possibly a larger piece of the pie than consumer?

29:33Would love for that to be a big piece of the pie. I imagine you would. We actually have our, we are jeans on Lafayette. Yeah. They are launching a brunch and we are on their brunch menu. And so we're their yogurt partner. And, you know, you'll see sour milk yogurt and their parfait. And that's a big play for us is how can we take the impossible meat playbook where, you know. Not to the end, hopefully. Not to the end, but just at the beginning. Right, right. But for their food service play, their playbook, right? You don't see just like a plant-based burger. You see Impossible Burger on the menu.

30:05And so there is some, and I think it's then being choosy about the food service locations we want to be at because we want to make sure that it's in line with our brand. But it's definitely something that we're thinking about. I mean, jeans and time again. I mean, it's. Oh, it's totally. Like, how do we choose like the cool, buzzy spots? I mean, it's not even the cool, buzzy spots. It's like cool, buzzy spots for like Gen Z. Yes. Yes. Yeah, exactly. It's not, I mean, because there's cool buzzy spots that aren't Gen Z's that aren't those places. But you're going very young. We are going very young.

30:33And I think, like, there are people who are, a lot of young folks are willing, you know, we're a slightly higher premium product, right? And as we said, we're grass-fed, organic, we're probiotic, all the things that you could be. And Gen Z, A, like, knows about these things. They know about gut health. They know how important it is. they care deeply about protein and they're willing to spend on things, particularly food, that feels much more like an indulgence. What's MSRP? Currently, it's$5, but this is the most expensive it's ever going to be. Yeah, that's what I would imagine that you're going to go down and down and down.

31:06But still, for a premium yogurt and a nice product, it's only plain, too. We should have said it from the jump, right? You're not thinking about flavors at all? Not really. Like, yes, we are. There will be flavors. But in this exact moment, am I thinking about it? No. And that's really because we are back to the like the burn really, really hot in a small area. We want to be hyper focused. And our target consumer really doesn't eat flavored yogurt. They don't want the added sugars. They want to put that on themselves. And so, of course, we need to expand to reach a broader audience. Of course, we know that.

31:39But our main priority is how do we reach as many people within this target as possible? Makes perfect sense for the early innings. I mean, later on when you're thinking about flavors, do you actually, do you think about pivoting away from the standard flavors? Yeah, that is something we think a lot about. So like right now we serve our yogurt with Manuka honey when we do sampling. And, you know, Manuka honey is, again, another premium product. But how do we make this health and wellness thing shine through beyond just the probiotics, but also maybe the other flavor pairings we do? Because, I mean, it feels like that would align with your mission here and also be a real differentiator between like the vanillas and raspberries.

32:15Exactly. Or even like a passion fruit, I'm like, that's not that different, right? Like what if we did like a matcha? Sign me up. Right? Or just like more interesting things. Yeah. It's cool. So you're thinking like small buzzy restaurants for food service. Yes. Is there like a grail place you'd want to see sour milk on? I would love sour milk to be on every juice bar in New York City. Okay. Like that is also a big, big play because I think there's the health that is an automatic association. But then there's also sort of like the fun scale and then the clear branding. When you go to a juice bar, you don't have a menu here.

32:54You have a menu on a billboard. And that is something that I think would be like an amazing play. Is there a direct-to-consumer approach with subscriptions potentially like a Hungry Roo model? Yes. That is something we really want to do. So even right now, we're calling our drug deal consumers, we're calling those folks our starter crew. So like, you know, the play on starter is sourdough starter, any of the live bacteria. And we would love for those people one day to convert to a subscription here in New York City. I think we'll probably just keep it here. Maybe there's a way to hub and spoke it into major cities down the line.

33:30But if I think about new flavor launches, if I think about like how do we make this like not just a subscription but also the inside group? And so that's another thing is like is there an exclusivity model that we can create and maintain within a certain – Which is cool for yogurt because it's like unprecedented. Absolutely. Like making yogurt cool where there's exclusivity is – even with like brands like Mustat, White Mustache. And like brands that have had that cachet, they still kind of don't because it's yogurt. And it's also like that's not White Mustache's focus. No. At all, right? Like, we also recognize that, too.

34:03It's like, they're making a really delicious yogurt, and they're staying small scale. Yeah, no. That's their goal. Do you look at them as, like, an inspiration in some ways? In some ways, and in some ways, like, I think a different model, you know? Yeah. Like, we look much more at, like, you know, even Shabani, what Shabani did with Greek yogurt, like, they put it onto the map for Americans. They did. It was not a thing before them, and so that's a total inspiration, right, is, like, they revolutionized the aisle. What's the round two, right? Like what's the second wave of making yogurt interesting and cool, not just putting it on the map?

34:34Sort of like how Graza came in to a commodity aisle and now all of a sudden there's a bright green squeezy bottle instead of just this sea of like random olive oil. Oh, yeah. We've been and drawn twice and I think we're due for one soon. And, you know, they like you kind of just like launched out like a cannon. They had more funding. They had an insane – yes. They had funding like crazy. Yeah. But they launched like a cannon. I would say it's not a cannon, but it's certainly in terms of a product launch, it's at least in New York, it's really doing it. You're doing it. It's buzzing. Yeah. It's been really fun.

35:11Yeah. It's been like the city, I think it's underrated how important New York has been to our growth as well. Oh, I recognize it as essential. But yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, you could think about it being in a different city and having a - And I'm from California, right? And I get that a lot is this could be in San Francisco. This could be in L.A. Of course. Totally. The market there. The customer is there. All those things. But the ability to have so much buzz and so much word of mouth and so many people just live outside their homes here in New York that, you know, no one would come to a random street corner to pick up their yogurt in L.A.

35:46That doesn't happen. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, again, this drug dealer model is you're basically selling it in advance and you're dropping it off at a street corner or selling it in person on the street corner. It's basically you go onto our website, you buy our yogurt, but before you can check out, this is Alon's computer science degree coming into play, is you have to choose a pickup time and location, which we've pre-programmed on the back end based on our schedules. So no matter what, if you come to a drop off, we will be there the full hour and you will have to meet one of the founders.

36:16And I think that's also a really important thing. Very, very smart. I mean, this is like the CSA model in many ways. It is like the CSA model. It's following that, which I think people are used to in New York. Yes, absolutely. Those pickups at certain times. There's a lot of industries that use that. It's like the raw milk thing too, the Amish raw milk circuit that goes on. There's a history of dairy. You're correct. I mean, it's really – This is not raw, but – This is not raw, to be clear. But it's very – it's interesting. And so just to be clear to the listeners, you go to the website and you pick your time and you pick it up.

36:42And do you have a minimum order? No minimum order. You just go to sourmilk.com and you can choose which – do you want single serves? Do you want multi-serve? Whatever it is. And then, you know, we categorize it by neighborhood. So you can choose Williamsburg and then you'll see the pickup times that are available in Williamsburg. You choose it. We have an automation once you check out where we send you a calendar invite. So that way you have it on your calendar when your pickup time location is and where and then you meet us there. What's retention like? Pretty high right now. Good. It's great.

37:12And also growing. Like this was the first drop where almost everybody finds us on social media. And then we have pretty high weekly retention of folks back. That's cool. Which is awesome because we have the highest friction model that you could ever experience. Right. But this was the first time where I was just talking to a lot and I was like, oh, wow. Instead of almost 100 % discovery through social media, we are now getting like 20 % to 30%. Oh, I tried this at a friend's house or a friend told me to come and get this. And that's the validity that like we need to know, oh, there's like real legs here and there's organic virality that's happening beyond us.

37:46Well, I mean, people just want to post it. Of course. People just want to post the blue label. I mean, I'll be doing that in 20 minutes myself. Yes, you should. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, exactly. No, it's a wonderful thing. And I just love the spirit. It's a great product. Thank you. Bright future. What's funding like for you right now? Currently, we're bootstrapped. Yeah. And that's been okay for right now. As you just said, like, because we have this pre-order model, our cash flow isn't bad because of that. And so we've been able to fund this. We put in money ourselves and we both have some side gigs just to make sure we can pay our rent.

38:19Oh, yeah. Because essentially, like if we were to raise money, most of it would be going to pay ourselves. And so that was an agreement that we had, Alana and I, is there a way we can recoup at least some of our rent doing other things? Yeah. So I'm lucky enough to still sort of work hourly with my previous firm. Good. And that's been very helpful. So that's thus your mild response to P.E. ruining food. Exactly. I get it now. Exactly. I'm shrinking in my chair. It makes sense. No, no, I'm. You're following. You're following. Yeah, I'm following. But we will have to raise money. And so we've been talking to investors since the beginning.

38:54Yeah, of course. Just like, of course, making friendly, continuing those conversations, ensuring that they're, you know, being kept up to date on what's going on. We're going to see through the end of this year and this sort of like initial New York store launches with our own funding and then sort of starting in Q1. What's the ideal funding? Is it like, I mean, you could talk about PE, but is it like VC or private office or like, what are you looking at? I think it's definitely, there's definitely some VCs that we would be really interested in just because of their connections and what they have.

39:21It's great food VCs. We've had a few on the show. Yeah, there are. There are some really great consumer specific focused ones. A few strategics. I was wondering about that. Yeah. Like, you know, you think about like the AG1 Huberman play. Like he blew it up because of the, you know, the ads on his podcast and the aligned incentive there. I mean, you're looking at that with David's as well. And so I think there's folks like that in the industry that we're really going after and would love to get. And I think there's things like, you know, earned media, things like that, that come along with that too.

39:54Yeah, I mean, you're already doing a lot of, you're doing earned now, but you're also doing so much social, you know, capture. And that has to be netting out in the positive for you as a company. Oh my God, it's been the biggest weapon ever. like I tell every founder I don't care you have you have to do it yeah there's no cringe for in the founder world yeah you have to kind of do it you have to do it it's like there is I'm not trying to be an influencer I'm just the top of funnel like you just have to think about that you know it's like yeah and I you have to be comfortable with that and some people aren't and that's okay yeah but for me I'm like I care way more about sour milk winning than I do about my cringe who gives a shit yeah who gives a shit it's still it's like empty calories pun intended when it comes to social video because it all kind of goes away.

40:38Exactly. It goes away. It's really cool. So VC, maybe some private. Yeah. And strategics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. And some strategics, too. I think that's probably the best. I mean, those strategics can learn a lot from you in your young career. I mean, just from what you're doing, just to make yogurt buzzy is impressive. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they can obviously be helpful for us, too. I think there's, you know, some people look at money as money as money. Like, we talk to a lot of founders, and I think that is true to some. extent. Like getting capitalized is just money. At the end of the day, you get to decide.

41:10A lot of these funds don't really provide you any other value other than money. And I think, okay, yes. And I think there are some strategics that can actually be quite helpful in terms of the connections that they can provide and those things. So they're selling the shit. I mean, they're not like working in spreadsheets. They're working in dairy. Exactly. Exactly. Or there's folks who have a large audience. It's like, great. If I can tap into that by you being an investor amazing yeah no that's that's that's actually a different i mean you call that strategic you can call that in like just oh yeah sorry yes yes yes but that's more like that that is like great and we're i mean we have influencers on our show and they listen who's the dream influencer put it out there oh who knows maybe someone's listening oh my gosh on the spot okay um well we love like mark hyman and peter atiyah any of those sort of longevity and biohacker folks.

42:02They have such a good audience. I even think of people like Michael and Lauren Bostic, they have Dear Media and their audience really is like the health and wellness and they sort of span both female and male wellness. And I think that's a really big play for us. It has to be. It has to be. It has to be. And I think like as much as we would love other people in the food industry, I actually think like double downing with these folks in the wellness space will really create much more of the strong narrative around our moat as well grieffully i think yeah you can definitely talk to food influencers but it's not really going to resonate the way a health and wellness influencer would exactly it's a smart i mean we'd love like you know justine snacks and those types of people like even like carolina gallon she has a lot of yogurt stuff yeah you can see their books behind you i mean yeah they've all been in the studio yeah yeah these are our peeps um yeah yeah of course i mean they would love the product because I like it too and they have good taste.

43:01Five years from now, like realistically. Where will we be? Yeah. I mean, realistically, I think that we will be for sure national. I think you could get us in any state. I think the big question will be, you know, to what level down in the grocery type chains, if that makes sense. Right. Like knowing that we're a premium product, like I would love to be in Costco. You know, I would love to be in Target. Will we be in Walmart? Like realistically, maybe not. Maybe. I mean, maybe. Maybe. That's easier to get into that store, that brand than Whole Foods pitching wise. It is. It's so true. Very, very different.

43:47It's true, but it does really different things for your brand value. I mean, Walmart's all right. Like, I mean, I. You think? Yes, I do. I talked to Ben Van Leeuwen about this and they're there and he had nothing but positive to say. Obviously, he's biased, but I don't sleep on Walmart. Okay, that's great, honestly. I appreciate that. The buying at the corporate level at Walmart has impressed me. I live near one. I don't live in the city. I live a little bit outside. So I do go to Walmart. As a younger person, I didn't go for a lot of reasons. But I am consistently impressed. That's good. with the way they think about founders and baby brands.

44:29Yeah. No, I actually, I don't disagree. I think the big question is like, what does it do from the outside perspective for a brand in its nascent days? Oh, yeah. For sure. I get what you're saying. It's like Siggy's did that. Yeah. And then they tanked a bit and then they pulled out of Walmart. Yeah. And then they went back in later once they were like bigger and more established and had a clearer brand value. And I think that's the five-year point will be sort of that inflection point, right? Where it's like, okay, who are we to the outside world? Are we big enough? Do we have enough of a brand to move into Walmart and still maintain that brand value?

45:07Or are we still building that up a little bit? Really interesting. I want to follow with you on this. By the way, Siggy's, that stuff tastes terrible. I do not like it. It's like I don't understand it. I hate to say it. I don't like it. I mean, I've never understood that brand, that product. Yeah, totally. It kind of undermines yogurt a little bit to me. Yes, yes. But a lot of people, they also have really high protein. And by the way, everyone loves protein. Sure. So I think that's also part of it. But I agree. Also, Faye sponsored the world, the U.S. Open this year. One day. One day we'll be doing one of those things.

45:40One day, you'll get it. Sour milk will be doing one of those things. I can see it. Okay, let's talk a little bit about macros because you're going 5%. Yes. You obviously have your probiotic and your protein macros on the positive, but then it's a 5 % full speed yogurt. I don't know. I don't see that as a negative. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is an open topic. Totally. I think that that's a huge positive. I think that there are going to be people, I think particularly older generation, views fat worse than younger generation. And so. That's anatomy. That was not sensitive. That's anatomy. That's like time and anatomy.

46:18talking. No, I'm kidding. I get it. Maybe, maybe, maybe. We just didn't grow up in the low fat era. You sure didn't. We did not at all. You have no idea what that is. I don't know. I don't know at all. I just think like Activia, like maybe. Snackwells. You don't even know what snackwells are. You've never heard of snackwells. What is snackwell? This is great. I absolutely love this moment. I mean, we've written, I'll send you the link. We wrote a story about snackwells. It's, It's the dark past of the 90s. Oh, my God. I'm like, do I even want to know? No, you don't want to know. So I think fat doesn't have, like, the bad word around it that I think it does for the snack well generation.

46:58So, yeah. So I actually don't see that as a bad thing. The biggest important thing for us was the protein to calorie ratio. So, like, in terms of macros, in terms of any number to care about, it needs to be 10 to 1. And so we have 150 calories to 15 grams of protein. And like that 10 to 1 number, if you go down Twitter threads or X whatever, that's like a big thing within the fitness performance sphere. So we wanted to be able to be both competitive with other yogurts on the shelf in terms of that number, but then also like a clear winner just because of that. And 150 calories is, you know, for even the snack world's generation, that says something.

47:38It's not as high as you would imagine. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Not as high. The second you add other things, you can, you know, like sugar, like, you know, vanilla or a peach or a raspberry flavor. You're up to like$1.90 to$2.10. So that's the thing about plain yogurt. Exactly. Exactly. Which is why I always encourage, like, put your own on it. You know, you get to control those other things. Yeah. I mean, you can put that tiny dot of manuka honey and it's all good. It's all good. Or like some fresh blueberries. It's delicious. And you get great prebiotic fiber as well. Non-yogar product, if you could found a company, what would it be?

48:13Wow. I know your brain is not there. My brain is so not there. It's almost like it probably makes you recoil, that question. But you're in the world. You think about companies and, you know, you think about models. What would you want to be? Can it be a silly answer? It can be absolutely any answer. I want an amazing helmet. I bike around the city all the time. So, hey, helmet brands. Anybody knows anything? Yeah. And I think that there's either like the performance sport helmets or I think you have one that's called like Thousand or something like that. But I don't know. There's nothing that feels like interesting, fun, cool, also has like good sun protection, like any of those things.

48:53And I need to be on the go and using it all the time. Yeah, it needs to be like collapsible in some way. Absolutely. And like for on the go. Donna Sillians is a really smart answer. It's great. Yeah. I was not wearing a helmet at first, and then I'm carrying like 30 pounds of joker on my back. You have to wear it. And I absolutely have to. You have to. Please. You have to wear a helmet. Please be safe out there. Are you city biking or do you have your own bike? I'm city biking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, double whammy. Double whammy, right? Those things are heavy and clunky. Oh, my gosh. Well, this has been a lot of fun, and I want to have you back.

49:26Let's make a date for like 18 months. Okay, great. I feel 18 months from now, there's going to be a whole different conversation. And like, I'm rooting for you. I really am. Thank you. Great product, but just I like the energy here. It's very positive. Hi there. It's Matt, co-host of the show. We are currently running a This Is Taste listener survey, and we'd love to hear from you. Do you have a guest request? A restaurant you wish we'd visit to talk about on Three Things? What about a lesser-known cookbook author who deserves a spot in our studio chair? You can let us know by clicking the link in our show notes to complete the survey.

50:06It will only take a couple minutes, I swear, and will help us continue to make the best show possible. That's the This Is Taste listener survey, link in our show notes. From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, An exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story, the 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist.

50:48Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-star talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus. The full program is available at montrealonlumiere.com, presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. If you're one of those last-minute shoppers, you might know the feeling. Ideas are running low and the clock is ticking. Here's a fun idea. Aura Frames. Aura Frames is the solution with a gift that feels personal, a little curated, and sent with love.

51:26And a gift that can be purchased in no time with a few clicks of the mouse. Aura Frames are great. They sent me one to check out, and it was really cool and dumb simple to set up. I loaded photos using the app, and it was displaying them instantly. There are no limits to the amount of photos you can load, and you can customize messages with each photo. And here's the deal. You can preload an Aura frame with photos and have it directly sent to that special person in your life, gift-wrapped and all. There will be no price tag, and you can include a personalized message. Think about it. All those photos from this past summer's family reunion delivered in a digital frame.

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52:42I am ready. Locked in. Okay. The best fruit? Peach. What's a grape peach to you? A grape peach is from my parents' backyard. I'm sorry. It's spoiled, but it's true. That's a great answer. The worst vegetable. Bell pepper. Yeah. Absolutely hate it. I was vegetarian for a while. and you go to a restaurant and it's like bell pepper and onion is like the vegetarian option. I'm like, no, that's not going to cut it. Are you kidding me? Yeah, very good answer. That is the correct answer. Great question for you. What is your typical breakfast? Obviously, it's yogurt. I actually didn't eat breakfast before starting this yogurt company.

53:19And now I make a yogurt bowl truly every day and I eat breakfast. Yeah. Oh, we didn't even talk about what's yogurt bowl looking like. Oh, my God. Well, it's a different thing every day. I get sent a lot of different granolas. So I get to try a lot of granolas, which is really fun. They're like cozying up to the buzzy brand. Oh, yeah. Oh, I see you, granola companies. We see you, granola companies. Shout out the good ones if you want. Okay, yeah. So Jamie's Farm, great granola. That's made with ghee. She's in Whole Foods. And we partner with her a lot for our samples. But put that on. I often use like a fiber powder.

53:50I honestly use this one called Puro, which unfortunately just closed down. But really, really love them. Sometimes I put some peanut butter on. I use One Trick Pony peanut butter. Such good peanut butter. Such good peanut butter. It's a great brand. It's amazing. I love that company. It's amazing. Love that. And then I'm a blueberry person on my yogurt. I don't know why. It's just like blueberries hit different. I mean, they burst in a cool way. Yes. You get a little sour, you get a little sweet. It's true. And like something about the skin, it's just, the burst is really nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

54:17Well said. Okay. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. I'm going to kind of cheat. And I wish that they had a Jalisco here. In my town of Sonoma, there was a tortilla factory. right down the street. And they're open, but only really rarely these days. And I wish there was one here. You wish. So it's more of a transport. It's more of a transport, but they would have fresh, fresh tortillas. We would go after school. I'm also a flour tortilla person, which I think is maybe controversial. No, it's fair. I love it. And then just some butter and salt. And it was just the best thing.

54:46Oh, nice. Just like straight up. That's good. Yes. The best dessert. Ice cream. Just like, also we would hand turn ice cream growing up. I'm like from a, you know, kind of small. Farmy background. Yeah. So we would hand-turn vanilla ice cream and put fresh fruit on it. The best. Just, I love, I love vanilla ice cream. Any brand that speaks to you in the ice cream world? Alex is doing really cool things right now. Yeah. He's awesome. Their factory is actually up by Sonoma. It's in Petaluma. And they're sort of doing the whole A2 dairy thing. But they have delicious ice cream. And then I just grew up having clover.

55:23Yeah. So good. I picked that up in the Bay. It's so good. I picked that up. I've been there. I know what you're talking about. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? Ooh. I'm probably, on this note, I'm like getting soft serve. Yeah. I know that Dan said, I think he said that. Like, I feel like, why do I remember this? But that is what I get. Oh, or a milkshake from In-N-Out. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I like like the black or the chocolate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. They have like a, I actually don't like black and white. I like the chocolate and the vanilla one. The chocolate and vanilla, not black and white.

55:57Exactly. Good. Very specific. Yeah, yeah, it's good. Your favorite city outside of America to visit for food? I love Vietnamese food. So recently was actually in Hanoi and it was delicious. Oh, very cool. Yes. So good. Great place to visit. Yeah. I love that city. It's just like everything is so fragrant and fresh and yeah, you get so much flavor in everything you eat. Last one, your favorite sandwich? I really like just I like a Dutch crunch this is kind of a California thing Dutch crunch I want a black pepper turkey breast tomato a ton of mustard light mayo salt and pepper and lettuce and a pickle good order you really got my order no it's a good order I like it it feels very California no sprouts though no avocado no sprouts and no avocado sometimes it's overpowering you know yeah like the mustard call is it yellow is it Dijon What are you doing?

56:53It's Dijon. I like a ton of it, too. I love that. Yeah. Kiki, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thank you so much.

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