678: Smithereens Charts Its Own Course with Nikita Malhotra & Nick Tamburo

27:44But to experience was the very, very best. Because you're there, December in Boston, looking at the common, and it's probably snowing a little bit. And you have champagne, and somebody makes you a Tom and Jerry. And it was this very... It felt like a real lesson in what restaurant hospitality can be. And that quality of... The thing that you wanted always being in front of you just a moment before you could have thought to ask for it. And that feeling of, oh, I was just going to go in for a quick 45 minutes. And then you're there 7 hours later. And I think in some ways for a higher-end restaurant, that to me is still a real guidepost of what can hospitality feel like at its best?

28:27when you pull out the stops, when price really isn't a limit, which for most restaurants, not most, but for many restaurants at this point, it seems like, regardless of experience, price is no longer a part of the equation. What can that feel like at its very best? And it was just... From the guest side, it felt like you were getting everything. And I think that's something that we can't necessarily afford to do over and over and over again. We can't splash all 550 guests we're going to see with champagne every single night. They can't get both courses that they were deciding between every single night.

29:03But I think it's really informed a lot of those like, hey, what are those little moments and those little things that you can do for somebody that make them feel like they're acknowledged and seen? Will Thompson, I cannot wait to visit you down in Miami at Sunnies. This has been such a fun conversation hearing about your career. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thanks so much for having me and thanks for listening to me, Yammeron. Today's episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. As a food writer, I can be a little skeptical about subscription cooking boxes you hear about on podcasts.

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30:51Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Nick Tamburo, Nikita Malhotra, this is Taste. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having us. You guys are like really seriously sitting across from me in the studio right now, but I think it's going to be a really fun episode talking all about smithereens. And before we get into the restaurant world of it all, I want to just give a little bit of insight into who you are. I'm wondering if you could each tell me an early food memory you have from growing up that you think somehow informs your point of view today.

31:31Maybe, Nick, you can start. Yeah, sure. Well, I grew up in Massachusetts, south of Boston. But both my parents are from Maryland area. and um when i was a kid like growing up we would go down to visit like my grandparents like aunts and uncles in like maryland and um for like special occasions we would always eat like steamed blue crabs with old bay and stuff where they just like you know dump it on the table with like brown paper and you just kind of like get really messy and and pick all the meat and and that kind of thing. And that was always like my favorite meal when I was a kid. The classic kind of New England experience, maybe?

32:17Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of like commonalities between like New England cooking and like that sort of like mid-Atlantic region. I mean, realistically, it's like not that far away. Yeah. I'm sorry. I said New England. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like mid-Atlantic, like Delmarva, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia. That's like the, you know. The tri-state. Yeah, yeah. And so that's like where that's popular. But yeah. I'm sorry. I'm from California. So to me, everything is the East Coast. Right. I appreciate the correction because we're going to talk about a lot of regional seafood and cooking today.

32:52Yeah, yeah, totally. Nikita, do you have a memory to share? Yeah, I grew up in the city of New York. And my earliest memories are my parents loved going out. We went out, you know, twice a week. And it's not really a food memory, but more of like an ambiance thing. I would always fall asleep on the banquets. And I just loved being in the restaurant and like, you know, sneaking in some cherries behind the bar. And my dad picking me up off the banquette so that we could get in the cab back home. I think about that all the time as an adult, like the amount of times that I'm out somewhere. And I'm like, I wish I could lie down here and have someone carry me home.

33:32but we can't do that anymore no yeah we try but yeah that's real hospitality so i'm curious how did you two meet and begin talking about smithereens as a restaurant um well we met i guess a long time before yeah yeah we started talking about the restaurant when wait was i still i was working at momafuku and you were also yeah different restaurants so i was at Nishi and Nikita was opening Wyo. So yeah, we met. I remember hanging out at, what was the party that they had at Co? Was it like an anniversary party where they invited everybody? Yeah, maybe. I mean, I remember mostly hanging out with you that one night in San Francisco.

34:22Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we both happened to be in SF at the same time and hung out. um yeah and then just kind of like we know like all the same people from like momofuku world and restaurants and stuff and um so so yeah um we never worked together at co but we both worked there at separate times so you know when i would go back to visit to you know eat at the bar or something like nikita was there and you know to get back to like starting the restaurant i guess I was like working at Claude and started formulating the idea for this project. And Nikita came in to eat dinner and was saying that she was going to be leaving Co shortly.

35:08So I was just kind of like, cool, I'm looking for like someone to collaborate on this with. That's your side of things. No, I mean, I knew Nick had that purpose to open his own project. He was pretty transparent about it in most of your time at Claude, I feel like. and so um i remember going to claude that week and you were at the pass and i i made sure to just like check in with you and then you came in to co that week and we we talked for briefly in the in the main dining room we were kind of going through we little did we know that co is going to close um not too soon after that but we're kind of reminiscing um about your experience and like what I was going to miss.

36:01And it was really nice kind of gateway into a conversation of like, well, what is it? What do we like out of restaurants? And like if, you know, coming on to this project that you've been thinking about a lot, like what would we contribute together? Yeah, I'm really interested in how you go from knowing somebody in like a larger scene, a larger professional industry and deciding that they're the right kind of partner to open a restaurant with and work on a project. How did you guys talk about what you wanted Smitherines to be and kind of vibe check that? I think that for me, the shared language, even though we never worked together, we worked through systems that were similar because we worked at a restaurant at different times.

36:47And we talked a lot about restaurants we also love across the board, different countries, why we liked them. So it was kind of, it felt more organic in that way. And I really appreciated those check-ins we had. There were many that summer where we just would get coffee and it wasn't even like a business thing. It was just like, what do you like when you sit down and eat? What's, you know, what are some things you're looking for? and kind of both of us were able in that way to get to a point of like what smithereens would look like. Yeah, what were some of those reference points? No, I think, yeah, I kind of like, that's a really good way to put it.

37:34I think even though we already knew each other, it was sort of like a getting to know you, like chats and stuff. Just, I mean, I think the great thing about working at Co was there is a really strong like was a really strong dna to that restaurant and sean gray and sue suang uh ruiz were like staples of that restaurant for so long so to have worked for that person is to sort of absorb some of that like mentality um and i mean i don't know that you see enough of that anymore but just sort of like uh yes like a strive for excellence but also like being self-critical i feel like it's like the number one like uh takeaway from that is to be able to like look at the thing that you're doing and being like is this like the best that it can possibly be or do we need to like take a step back and rework this because if it's not like Like, and I don't want to say perfect because that's perfect is like kind of lame, but like true, being true to who you are, I think is like the most important takeaway from that.

38:53Yeah. I do feel like smithereens as a restaurant when I was dining there, it does have such a specific point of view and feeling. I think sometimes these days there are a lot of new restaurants that come out that they kind of look the same. They have kind of similar things on the menu and certainly like that's not what's going on at your restaurant. Nick, I'm wondering if you could explain kind of the culinary tradition ethos of like South Shore mass that you guys are doing at the restaurant to like, how would you kind of describe that or what it looks like in practice even? It's definitely a jumping off point for the restaurant.

39:31I think like it informs, yeah, like some of the ingredients that we use or like the, a lot of the like aesthetics of the restaurant. And, but it is like somewhat of a loose theme. I mean, we have these sort of like nods to like New England culinary tradition. Like since we've opened, we've made like a clam chowder and we've used it in like different applications. Or, you know, we have the lobster roll. Anadama bread. Anadama bread. Yeah, some look to history more than others. Some are more like current. You know, I think the buckwheat pancake that we do with smoked bluefish is like a total like tribute to Neptune oyster in Boston.

40:23And so, yeah, we kind of have these like sort of like touchstones, I guess, on the menu. and then everything else is just sort of, I don't know, can be related to that or can not at all. And that's fine, too. Yeah, I feel like the abalone shiitake mushroom skewer that I had at the restaurant, I've tried to enjoy abalone many times. And it's always been more of a challenging texture, certainly for me. And that skewer was such a light bulb moment because it was like the way it's prepared was so delicious. And I felt like I had achieved like getting to enjoy this like seafood item that I know is like so prized and beloved.

41:03So personally for me, that was very fulfilling. Cool. Yeah, you're from the land of abalone. Yeah, I've been to like an abalone farm before. Oh, cool. The Monterey one. Yeah, it's in like Santa Barbara area. They do purple sea urchin also. And they do these giant, they call them Balthazar abalone. They're like bigger than my fist, maybe two of them. And they sell them for like 200 bucks a pop. I was going to say those must be insanely expensive. They overnight them to Asia for like business meeting, like high value kind of things. So also like, you know, the abalone that large, I think has a lot of chew going on with it.

41:38Yeah. I'm curious. Do you know how old those are? Like how long do they have to live to get that big? They're definitely older. This was a couple years ago. So I don't remember exactly. but it's kind of something that they started doing because they saw this business interest in Asia to sell these like Balthazar abalone which is such a good branding name also. Yeah, that's really cool. Where are you guys getting the abalone from? These are from Australia. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, I mean abalone is a strange, it's not like you don't see it often especially in like Western restaurants at least on the East Coast.

42:14I think in California there are more people using it in the Bay Area and stuff like that where it's from. But yeah, it's prevalent in Australia. And I mean, I think like a reason that we want to serve it is because it is uncommon. And like usually to have it at a restaurant, you're committing to like, you know, a$300 omakase or like some kind of tasting menu. So to just be able to go and like order it is like kind of cool um i mean it's not cheap but uh it's um more approachable um so it's like kind of a cool experience yeah it's crazy that it's coming from so far away is there also a focus of using more kind of local seafood on the menu um yeah we definitely use a lot of stuff from the east coast um i mean the whiting we were talking about before this um is super prevalent in uh like montauk um that's why we started using it because one of our fish purveyors was telling us that like the fishermen like want to move more whiting there's just so much of it um and um right now it's like halibut season on the east coast um so that you know tuna we have great um tuna here on the east coast spanish mackerel that kind of stuff yeah all kinds of good things yeah nikita i'm curious how you began thinking about what the beverage program would look like and how it's kind of evolved since the restaurant has been opened.

43:49Yeah, we were going through, I remember I was like, okay, what's on the menu with Nick? And because he had a residency at Fulgrance, so there was like time to really think about that. And I just kept wanting to drink Riesling every time you mention something. And I was like, okay, what if I just did that? Like, is that crazy? But we talk about this a lot in terms of like one of the joys of owning something is that you can kind of just say, yeah, I'm going to just do that. And let's see what happens. And you're not beholden to anyone. It's more frightening because you're beholden to yourself, right?

44:36but we opened with mainly German Riesling, white wine. The only red wine was by the glass and I really enjoyed that but I started kind of formulating that I could kind of create a program where as a group, as the restaurant, we could learn together and really dive into things together all within the parameters of like will it work well with the food? To me, as a beverage person, I think over the years in restaurants, I've learned that like my role in a restaurant is to support the food menu. And so that's been really fun to do with such a distinct perspective. Yeah, when a new dish is put on the menu, do you think about like this is my perfect pairing?

45:25Or is it more of like this is an overall group of beverages that I think generally go well with what's happening on the food side? Yeah, I do think at both of both of those at the same time. And so sometimes during lineup, it'll be like we present a dish, we taste through it, and then we go around. I like to ask both back of house and front of house what they'd like to pair. And I think that that's also kind of shows that you can pair sometimes Narragansett will do real wonders with something. You know, I think I like to break apart that idea that traditional wine is the way to go. There's just such an amazing world of beverages out there.

46:13yeah I was gonna say like we're talking about wine mostly but there's New England beer on the menu you even have like moxie soda right what is moxie soda to someone who's never had it yeah moxie was like the criteria it was before even Riesling we were like we gotta have moxie yeah it was like uh it was difficult to source yeah there's one one company that carries it that we can get it from um and sometimes they don't have it it's uh it's chaos out there moxie so it's like a cult south shore mass soda where is it being drank it's more um when it was first became produced was in lowell massachusetts um then it moved up to maine um and it's it's more of like a main state beverage um you can find it most easily probably in maine at like a convenience store or something um what's the flavor to me it has like a slight root beer-esque like if you were combining um it's softer than than root beer um but it has like this spice element that's really distinct to me.

47:26Yeah, it's bitter. It has like gentian in it. So to me, it tastes like an Amaro and soda. Yeah. It's like a good like, yeah, like NA or like a Chinoto if you ever had. That's like one of my favorite things. Me too. Yeah. So that's kind of the vibe. So now it's produced in Washington state for some reason. It's owned by Coca-Cola now. Okay. But yeah, very like limited distribution. It's so interesting how regional soda is such an in-group nod. Like I would imagine somebody from Maine who comes to eat at the restaurant and sees that on the menu just must feel so like immediately seen and held. Yeah.

48:02It's, uh, it's really funny to see how so many people embrace that. It's such, you know, it's actually, I feel like controversial though, because some people be like, Oh, I like, I hate Moxie. I'm from Maine and other people like, This is the best. So it's, it's polarizing. I've definitely seen like a lot of older folks be like, wow, I haven't had moxie in like, like 30 years. Like, you know. A hundred years. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, or some people that are younger would be like, oh, I had this one as a kid. It was horrible. And then we'll kind of be like, well, have you had it recently? And they're like, no.

48:34And I was like, try it again. Cause like as an adult, like I remember having it when I was a kid and I was like, this is disgusting. It's like not sweet. It's bitter. but as an adult you're kind of like your palate's more developed you're like wow this is great yeah now that you can drink a negroni you can probably handle a moxie yeah exactly it's better than a i can't remember the name of this but there's like a cult main coffee liqueur that i've had before yeah um what is it the coffee brandy what's it called again i should look it up right now because it's allen's allen's yeah yeah we talked about trying to get that yeah yeah for sure i like you You guys is like the connectors for regional sodas and spirits in that way.

49:13Yeah, yeah. Nick, you were talking a little bit about just the seasonality of seafood. I think that's something that people don't necessarily think about a lot, just in our age of getting everything at the supermarket. I'm curious, as we're heading into fall, maybe both on the food and on the drink side, if there are any kind of recent changes to the menu or things that you're eyeing of doing in the future that you're excited about? um yeah we're we're working on a lot of fall stuff right now i mean definitely produce you know squash potatoes sweet potatoes is like things that we're thinking about um also like um fruit like quince and persimmons we're messing around with i mean seafood side uh like main uni season like started recently so we're thinking about like sea urchin um what else um i mean those are all great yeah weirdly uh i'm very like strangely excited about this about possibly serving beef um which we've like not really done um but we found this like producer um in new hampshire that raises like wagyu cattle um so i'm like cool there's like sort of a connection there yeah um so thinking about it like a hearty meat option for fall winter yeah i have to say like the restaurant it feels like you're dining in a ship kind of it's below ground it's kind of dark and cozy i feel like all of the ingredients you're talking about make a lot of sense to kind of eat in that setting as well Yeah, this is the time of year where we really shine, I think, vibes-wise.

50:56Nikita, is there anything that you're working on right now? Well, I get to change the wine list like every two months. Every two months? Yeah. So the theme right now is still, we came back to Riesling, so Riesling sake. And sake's been really fun. We started more at the end of summer and now moving into different styles has been great. I think that like with rice fermented beverages, we're still learning so much, especially with like continental cuisine. And just kind of going over, well, there's different rice strains and styles and you don't need to polish as much. And what happens if you kind of retain those flavor profiles if you don't polish as much has been, I think, really great with the team.

51:48And, yeah, I think that in terms of our cocktail program, it's been a team effort, but we have kind of gone back to embracing more of a New England thematic tie in with our love of gin and rum and seeing how historically those two have been really important for New England and its history. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense in that context. And even on the dessert menu, the last time I was in, I had a celery soda, like ice cream float. Is that like something you guys were making in-house and then using in a dessert application? It's always been a dessert thing rather than a beverage thing. But are you buying this?

52:33Is it celery or is it something you guys are making? No, we make it. We like juice celery and then like season it and yeah, carbonate it. Yeah, I loved that. But I thought that was kind of a bold menu item because I think celery can be a complicated flavor for people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was surprised by how like divisive it is. It's definitely divisive. Do you feel like when you're putting things on the menu, maybe on both sides, you're making something that you think is going to be like a crowd pleaser? Or is it kind of more of this idea of I want to drink Riesling, so I'm putting Riesling on the menu.

53:06I want to have celery soda. So I'm putting celery soda on the dessert menu. It's definitely, I mean, this is something that we like talk about all the time that we feel super strongly about is like, if you do something that you're passionate about, that you love, that you have like reason for doing, then people will be attracted to that. We're just asking people to trust us. It's like, we're not going to feed you something disgusting. That's insane. So it's like there's good reason to like it. I understand, like, sure, it may not be to your taste, and that's on you. I guess that's like a you problem.

53:46But, you know, it's something that there's a consensus amongst our team that, like, this is a thing that we can, like, get behind. But I think that was, yeah, a really important thing to us starting the restaurant that we talk about all the time is it's a place for us and our team. And, you know, we love our guests. We want our guests to be happy. And we have a lot of regulars, a lot of people that have been dining with us since the very beginning and who get it. And a lot of like new diners that are like have gotten on board with what we do. But at the end of the day, it's like how I look at it in the kitchen is like we're there, you know, five days a week, 12 hours a day.

54:30What makes us happy? Like what is what do we want to get out of it? And that's like number one most important thing. So if we want to make a weird dessert with celery because it makes us happy, then let's do it. Yeah, definitely. I think also when we talked about it, like the restaurants that we were talking about had a point of view. And I think also the idea of it's so funny. It's like how many restaurants in New York have this like concept of showcasing regional American food? I think you kind of have to have a point of view to do that successfully in a way. Yeah. What were some of the restaurant references that you guys were drawn to?

55:20It's so long ago now. I know, it's long ago. I can say recently there's been, I kind of love that we do this collaboration series. And I think that is always such a good time for us to regroup and be like, oh, we loved what they did here. And like some of our dishes start to shine because there's a conversation that happens. I think for me, this past year, like our meal at Locust was really great. And, you know, they got to come up and do a dinner with us, but dining there in their space and how they kind of, I think in a similar vein, it's like you walk in and they're taking over kind of your experience in the way that they have their music and the way that they're sitting you at the table and the way that they're bringing the dishes out.

56:17It's, I think, always something that I thought about as well with Smithereens, and hopefully we deliver in a similar way. Yeah, we definitely took a lot from that experience. They're an incredible locust team. Yeah. And— Where are they based? Nashville. Yeah. And I think that, yeah, the chef there, Trevor, is doing a similar thing. Like, he's from Ireland. there is sort of this like through line of Irish heritage or inspiration. But at the end of the day, they also just like do whatever they want in a, in a really cool, like honest way. It's just like, you can tell like how excited they are about like the, what they're serving.

57:02And it's really cool. Yeah. And like the best bread service I've had this year. And I love our Anadama bread. So. Yeah, the Ayatollah bread is really good and has a folktale behind it, which I think you guys seem to be drawn to a certain level of sharing history or talking about where things are coming from, which is always kind of special to see on a menu. Nikita, you mentioned music. How would you describe the musical point of view at Smitherines? I mean, it's pretty eclectic. It is. Yeah. But we believe in like, I mean, it's been a while since I've worked at a restaurant where you could just put on whatever playlist like we like to kind of have a theme and we talk about just like how the playlist should fit the mood.

57:53um i mean i really nick has some great playlists and there's like thought behind it right and it kind of follows in line with like everything that we do which is maybe overthought but like there's a lot of i like to go over this with the group of like intentionality yeah they don't they don't like to hear that word anymore i think because i really hammer it home but i think Yeah, what does that mean to you? It just means that, I mean, it's actually there's two ways of understanding it, right? I think the beauty of walking into a restaurant is sometimes you don't even, like, notice things. But when you start noticing, you're like, wow, even how that napkin is placed on the table to how the, you know, food is being presented to the bathrooms to, like, everything.

58:44If it has thought, it actually brings the there's this sense of ease and you don't you just feel so comfortable in the space. So I think it's the it's like the the movement of that is what I'm getting at with intentionality. I think it is so evident when you're in the space. And over the summer, there was a great three-star New York Times review of smithereens from Lee Gaia shortly after stepping into the role, one of the roles of restaurant critic. And when I was doing my research about this, I read that it happened when you guys were all on vacation and nobody was at the restaurant. And I'm curious what that experience was like.

59:25yeah that's it was crazy um let's see yeah we had to we had to close to like fix some uh our floors in the restaurant they were messed up yeah unrelated to the review yeah yeah yeah so so yeah we took a little break and um yeah it was i mean we knew it was coming out but um yeah i was in um denmark and i was like on a hike um and in like the middle on like this island and And then, yeah, the review was out and people were like, I didn't really have like great service, but I would like get like sporadic texts sometimes. And then my girlfriend and I were on like the side of this cliff, like trying to like load the page.

1:00:11Holding your phone up to the sky. Yeah, exactly. So that was cool. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It did like coming back and then like reopening the restaurant. It did feel like a little like anticlimactic in a way because the review had been out for like a week at that point. Yeah. Was that you weren't on a remote island, Nikita, I take it? I wasn't. I was on my way to London. I was still in New York, but I was. And I think I kind of enjoyed it in a weird way because it kind of gave us this space to really think about what that review meant and like soak in those words so that when we opened, we were like, OK.

1:00:51I mean, I don't know if we were prepared or anything changed, but I appreciate that moment of reflection. And, you know, we talked through with the group when we got back just briefly and celebrated. And I really liked what you said, Nick. You were at NOMA and, you know, Rene Redzepi told you to, like, embrace the moment or something like that. I was like, yeah, I guess that's kind of organically what we did in a way. Yeah, yeah. He was like, oh, we don't take, like, as, like, chefs, like, we don't take the time to, like, celebrate these sort of, like, victories in a way or just sort of, like, okay, cool.

1:01:28Like, let's, you know, keep, go back to work and, like, keep working. And, yeah, I think that's, he's like, you gotta really soak it in. um yeah i think it was kind of ideal in a way to be close because it was funny to like go you know it'd be weird to like have it come out and then go into service and like right after and it gave us time to sort of like reset um and also i don't think we were prepared for how busy we got after that so it was like you know we knew like going into it like the couple days like before reopening we're like okay we have to like prepare for war because yeah it was like a lot of I mean not only like the amount of people that you're serving but just like higher expectations and and all that stuff is like a lot to sort of like come to terms with yeah I was curious about what it felt like when you did reopen because three stars is a great review it's not a very like common rating that people get and especially knowing that it wasn't like people could show up that day like were you just completely slammed like what did it feel like when you did reopen yeah i mean it was it was busy and i think it was interesting because we were like there's something about the space that i want to protect yeah so i'm like okay it's okay to be you know happy to be busy oh my god of course but it's also like when is too much and like how do we preserve what has been magical for guests and that's been a debate that we've still been like talking through because it's like we're just going into busy restaurant season as is now but definitely like coming back it was something you know we we've done certain things we've maybe added a couple more front of house you know shifts and just to like ensure that we're preserving that that moment for people because like I wrote so like I was just I think what I took away from from that review is like it's it's great to to see um someone write like everything you've poured this like year of your life into a place and it's it's nice regardless It's like how many stars just to read the words is great.

1:03:51Yeah, she's like the most beautiful writer. She's great. She's an incredible writer. And I think the stars is an easy thing to fixate on. But what I was mostly struck by was this kind of like way that she seemed to be seeing and identifying with the restaurant. She writes something along the lines of like, this might not be the restaurant for you, but it's the restaurant for me. And I think what you guys are saying about wanting to make a place that is really core to what you're inspired by and want to be doing. like that seems to really resonate yeah i think as like you know food media food people or like we need to encourage like individuality and like people taking risks and thinking outside the box i don't know not that like yeah i don't know maybe that that wasn't well stated but no that's that's beautiful that's the point it's funny like you guys had a lagaya on this podcast and she was talking about this uh the celery dessert yeah and we she didn't explicitly say like what restaurant she was talking about but she was like oh this like I can't remember what she said but it was like I kind of loved it but also I didn't like the flavor of it and we were like oh my god she's definitely talking about us like this is scary yeah um yeah it's funny that's how it goes on this idea of kind of individuality and restaurants I feel like the East Village is kind of having a new wave.

1:05:13I mean, East Village has been a great restaurant neighborhood for a while, but it seems like there's lots of new openings and things going on. And I'm curious if you guys think of Smithereens as part of like a neighborhood community of restaurants or just kind of how you think about the neighborhood that you guys are operating in. Yeah, I mean, it's the best neighborhood. I love it. You're right by Claude still. Yeah, yeah. Claude and Penny, like those guys are there and they're working on a new project too which will be really cool um stars yeah stars yeah um i mean fox face superiority burger like we love those places yeah superiority burger is another great example of like brooks doing whatever he wants on the restaurant menu yeah yeah um what else is happening foul witch yeah i i love narita because they like riesling as well yeah your people yeah um yeah kabawa yeah yeah um no there's definitely a lot happening um yeah i wonder if we'll still see um more like you know openings i don't know yeah what is your relationship like with the claude penny stars folks it seems like they hang out around the restaurant too yeah i mean we like all their staff comes in to eat a lot and we and i think our staff goes there a good amount too um and yeah i mean chase and josh that run the restaurants they're like two of my closest friends so um to be able to like work with those guys on that opening was like so like educational and like definitely made opening smithereens like possible to sort of do that um so yeah we're super tight with them and it's nice to see yeah all the different restaurant families that are happening around yeah totally i want to play a rapid fire game with you guys to close today.

1:07:17I'm going to make you play some favorites if you're ready. Okay, I did prepare for those. Okay. Yeah, I like have answers written in my phone. I think when you're put on the spot, sometimes it's hard to be like, you know, it's like, what do I like? I know, yeah. But it's going to be great. Okay, maybe we can, since you have your answers ready, you can answer first and then Akita can go second. That'll give you time to think about it. Yeah. Okay, good. All right, let's do that. Okay, your favorite cookbook. I, yeah. I have Essential Cuisine by Michel Bras, the great French chef. Big fan of his work.

1:07:53That's great. Should I do a cookbook or should I do a wine book? You can do a wine book. You can do either if you want. I'm going to do wine. I think New French Wine by Jon Bonnet is becoming an essential book for people. Cookbook, I'd say Mother Joffrey. Indian cuisine queen. your favorite fall produce item um i mentioned it before but um quince or persimmon what kind of persimmon um i guess if i had to pick one i prefer hachias but yeah they're just so good yeah i just like looking at those fruits yeah they're like beautiful they are they're little jewels yeah or like smelling quince which is like something about like you can't like capture that because once you cook it, it transforms into something else, which is cool but also sad because it's not the same thing.

1:08:54Yeah, and you can't really eat it raw. Right, yeah. Good answer. What about you, Nikita? I'm just thinking of when we first opened around this time. What we had, yeah. I love beets. Whoa, okay. Remember the cocktail with the beet cheese? Yeah, yeah. And then beets were also in the menu. Right. I like the sound of a beet juice cocktail. Do you remember what kind of liquor was in it? Yeah, it was rye. It was a Ward 8 classic New England cocktail. You guys, I'm learning so much about New England right now. It's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Okay, your favorite quick lunch spot in New York? Oh, Sobuya, also on 9th Street in the East Village.

1:09:38That's good. S &P. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. That's mine. What do you got there? Oh, I mean, what do you get? Tuna Mo. I was, yeah, me too, on rye. Yeah. I did go to B &H this weekend, actually, though, and that was great. What did you get? Split pea soup. Yeah, that's. Well, I've never had that there. It's so good. It's really good. Well, you have to add salt, but, like, it's great. I, like, love, I think B &H is, like, the New York institution for me. The challah is incredible. The challah is incredible. The people who work there are incredible. Yeah. I went there after going to a movie. We've just derailed the speed round.

1:10:16But I went there after seeing a movie at Angelica Village East, which used to be a Jewish theater back in the day. And then I went to B &H and I realized that like 100 years ago, somebody could have done exactly what I did and walked from like that theater to B &H to have like soup. Right. That's super cool. History. Gotta love it. Okay. Your favorite occasion restaurant in New York? The Grill. I love it there well that's great yeah oh okay um I'm gonna go with another one in that group but Teresi we went to Teresi to celebrate our review with the team oh it's perfect it was fun yeah okay your favorite bar in New York this is really hard this is so hard yeah I was like I decided that like I would keep it like East Village centric And tile bar or a big bar.

1:11:13Oh, yeah. That's mine, too. Yeah, big bar, right? Big bar. Yeah. It's great. It's cash only. That's good. Yeah, it's small, cash only. Red glow. Okay, I'm going to keep making it hard. Your favorite bakery in New York?

1:11:31I would say, just because I go there most often, probably C &B on 7th Street. The breakfast sandwiches are great. They have really good focaccia. What about you, Nikita? I go here a lot. So French App Bakery. Yeah. Is that what's in the old arcade bakery space? Yeah. Coolest space. It's like that. It's in the lobby. Exactly. It's great. I love that space. I was really sad when arcade closed and happy that another bakery is moving in there. Yeah. uh okay what you would consider to be an underrated item of seafood that's tough um i mean i'd say bluefish well yeah that's true yeah um yeah bluefish definitely is um i'd say i don't know if it's underrated enough but like mackerel some people don't like it but i feel like at the restaurant like in the kitchen it's like everyone's like favorite thing.

1:12:38Not just the one that we serve now, but we've served like different iterations or like different types of mackerel. We just like, we love mackerel. I love that. Okay. Final question, a fictional food scene, like from a book or a movie or something made up that you wish you could somehow eat in real life. I would say the opening scene of the movie Eat, Drink, Man, woman by ang lee oh it's just this like chinese like feast it's incredible so amazing but this is a tough question to answer but that would be my my pick it's a great answer what about you nikita oh it's so great but i i wrote about this on our i think volume two of our zine um he's taking your idea then wait no not your movie i i wrote about in the sci-fi yeah science Transfiction, I think, is like, and that's hard that I have to pinpoint because, like, I would probably go with Dune, Frank Herbert, because I really want to try, like, wine from Caledon.

1:13:39Oh, cool. That is the coolest answer. I ask all my guests this question because I'm just looking for things to read and watch, honestly. But no one has ever said, like, interstellar wine before. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or, like, Star Trek. I'd like to try, like, Captain Picard's family. wine oh yeah yeah but it's from bordeaux so i feel like i could like you have an idea i have an idea of it yeah i mean you could if you're in star trek you just use the replicator and you could taste any wine ever right but can he do that actually don't i feel like that's what makes wine magical is that you can't you can't you can't do it the replicator could not yeah why not Because wine is like more than just the parts of grapes and things.

1:14:26There's like history and you have to age it a certain way and it continues to grow. So I don't think a replicator could do that. Yeah, I probably couldn't handle it. Okay, the next time you guys come back, we'll do like a sci-fi wine specific podcast. I'm so down. Thank you guys both so much for coming on the show. This has been so fun. Thank you. Thank you.

1:14:50This is Taste is hosted and produced by Matt Rodbard and me, Eliza Abarbanel. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell, logo and guest illustrations by Ellie Skrzat. visit taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste