705: The Year in Los Angeles Restaurants with Jenn Harris of the Los Angeles Times & Jordan Okun and Max Shapiro of Air Jordan

26:23You should definitely subscribe to the L.A. Times and read not just the list but the work you and Bill do. I think it's such a terrific section every week. I read it every week, and I love it. I love the work you do there and terrific writers. But starting at number two, you've got Cato, Baru, Dunsmore, Hayato, Providence, Morohiro, Antico Nuevo, Restaurant Key, and Anna Jack rounding out at number 10. I mean, such a cool, diverse mix of restaurants and neighborhoods and cuisines. It feels like, you know, you're not over-indexing anywhere. I mean, it's such a hard choice to put 10 restaurants at the top of the list.

27:03Give us a little color from this top 10. Okay, a little color. I don't know. I mean, number two, Kato was our number one the previous years. Last couple years, right? Yeah. And, you know, it is still the most exceptional fine dining restaurant in L.A., like, without a question on every level. um you know john yao the chef there is you know doing his interpretation of taiwan the taiwanese food he grew up with in the san gabriel valley kind of orienting it with california ingredients and presenting it in ways where you know i also grew up in the san gabriel valley but um he definitely challenges and celebrates um the original forms of some of these dishes that he's riffing on and it's really fun to see um the wine list there ryan bailey who's the co-owner and and does the wine.

27:50There's like more than 3 ,000 bottles, which is insane. This is just like such a gem of a restaurant. Baru, should I just go through? Yeah, you can pick a few. We don't need to go through every one. And we've had several of these chefs on the show. Yes, you have. Love LA, you know. Though we haven't had Brian Dunsmore on yet. Ooh, okay. Let's talk about Dunsmore. Soon enough. But tell me about what's going on with Baru and Dunsmore. Sure. Okay, Baru. so Kwong and Mina Park they're the two owners of this restaurant it is a tasting menu that is kind of heavily rooted in Korean flavors and traditions I think it's the best vegetarian dining in town so they have their regular tasting menu and then you can do a vegetarian one with a little advance notice and it's like part of the meal is my favorite part of the meal is you're presented with like a set of brew bowls which is basically what they started as.

28:48Yeah, exactly. And that's what bodice monks eat their meals out of. So there's, it's this course where it's like rice, vegetables. And all the vegetables are kind of at various stages of fermentation and freshness, which is something that chef Kwong plays with a lot. And there's this crystal clear radish leaf soup. And it's just like such a joy to eat and you feel good eating it. And I don't know, he's such a cerebral intense kind of guy, but, but I always find his presentation you know fun and playful and thoughtful and it's just one of one of the most special places um in los angeles right now uh and then you have dunsmore which is in glasel park um and brian is like he's basically he's from the south so he's kind of celebrating his southern upbringing through a california lens so the food that's funny because like anytime i talk to anyone who goes there or any chefs actually they're just i'm like what's your favorite restaurant done oh it's it's the industry favorite yes yes um but it's like it's like you know like i remember like what did i have there like late summer it was like smoked duck ham with like seasonal melon or this or oh god the incredibly decadent um chili cheddar cornbread that's based on a um a lewis recipe and it's it's cooked in the hearth which is at the back of the room where where most things are cooked there and it's just like so much butter and it's so delicious and decadent um the wine program um sam graves is the wine director there he all he always just like emerges somewhere out of the corner with like a bottle of exactly what you want to be drinking that you didn't know you wanted it and it's just it's like a flawless flawless restaurant yeah and then anna jack like uh you know on number 10 i just think the the remodel and the you know the re kind of uh concepting of the of the places is interesting that it made number 10 yeah i think Justin is like so wonderful and the food is so wonderful.

30:38And I just love that he took his like parents decades old Thai restaurant and kind of like catapulted it onto this like national stage with his these like Thai taco Tuesdays that he started doing out of the like side alley of the restaurant. And it was like lap chung on a tostada and like fish tacos with chili Chris and just like really wonderful, like in your face, punchy flavors. and I don't know I think he manages to like harness his like intense creativity streak like creative streak while preserving you know what made his family restaurant stick around for decades and the remodel is fantastic it is like buzz it's consistently buzzing so yeah it's it's more exciting to eat there than ever yeah I can't skip Providence you know it gets a third Michelin star for the first time, which is big news.

31:28It's been a restaurant that's been open for, what, decades, right? And it finally gets the star. I mean, it brings up the topic of Michelin, which I think, you know, has a California list and has representation throughout Los Angeles. Do you consider Michelin when you're making your list or are you like fully separate? No. You said that very fast. I love it. Yeah, Bill and I do not. No, we're, yeah, we don't have the same, I guess, rubric for evaluating things which so you know they're great for what they do but we are totally separate totally different um but but providence i mean they're celebrating 20 years this year and it is a restaurant that helped establish you know a fine dining scene in la they put us on the map in terms of like national recognition for fine dining and yeah even it was like they had they got they finally got their three stars which is so well deserved they were recognized by the world's 50 best as well but they are like but when you have dinner there it's like they are still pushing themselves.

32:23It's still super creative and fun. And like the hospitality there is consistently on another level. So they're not like, oh, we got all the awards. We're just kind of like sitting back now. We're just like, what can we do next? Which is exciting. Yeah. Well, I have a couple like follow up questions about specific restaurants on the list. And, you know, we could be talking all day. We could go through every every restaurant, but we don't have time for that. But I wanted to talk about Celine. It's Dave Baran's, you know, a slightly experimental West Side restaurant and it gets, it's high, it lands high on your list.

32:54What drove you to make that call? Are you saying you thought it was too high or you're just wondering? I have not, I have not been there. So I have no, I have no skin in this game. Again, I'm a mere outsider. But I think, you know, just knowing that self-cooking and knowing you clearly are valuing it. You're putting it high on the list. Yeah. Did you ever go to Dialogue? Yes, I did go to Dialogue. And, you know, I went to Red Medicine, too. I know it's a different chef, but I feel like, you know, it's in that – plays in that sandbox a bit. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Like adjacent. Adjacent.

33:33Yeah, yeah. I don't know. It's funny because Saline is very – the restaurant it opened as is very different from what it is now. um now it's kind of this place that immerses you in a moment in time during a current season so i went during the autumn season uh and it's just okay so like for instance like one of the it was like you're invited into the kitchen and you're like all right he the chef gives you this like wild mustard green that they kind of like dip in this fresh passion fruit juice and then they flash freeze it and then kind of hand it to you. And it's like, there's this like sheen of juice on top that kind of mimics, like, I don't know, like a leaf, like, like ice cracking on a leaf, like in the, it was just like, you kind of just get sucked into this world of every single course is kind of going to be like, this is autumn.

34:27This is the freshness of autumn. This is like the hominess of autumn. And, but it's, it's not just that though. It's kind of a menu that ends up being, I guess, pretty personal for Dave. And there's definitely a through line, but there's one course where it's like, the whole thing is meant to be an homage to his grandmother and the last bites of her pot roast. And then there's this... And it's just those prized sticky bits at the bottom of the pot and that's what you're served. And so it's very homey and nostalgic and it feels good. And then, I don't know, it's just... It's kind of like experiencing an entire season through one person's eyes and that and it I don't know kind of bring you along on like a story of like what autumn is and it's just but it's that thing it's just it's not just that though it's like the food itself it wasn't just conceptual the food itself was delicious and and there were things that I wanted to like immediately eat again and that I was like thinking about afterwards so you're you're exciting me here I mean I love you're very you're very articulate and I appreciate you really thought through this this choice and And I'm just throwing these out there.

35:30For the sake of this conversation, I just want to get as many restaurants to mention as possible. And I'll continue. You know, Perilla is at 18 and Funky is at 19. Two completely different restaurants. I like both of them tremendously. I think they're both very good restaurants. But they're so different. And it just makes me think like elevating Perilla over Funky is a choice. It is a statement in some ways. Yeah, I think it's a choice. It's also just like so emblematic of like the beauty of Los Angeles, like the enigma that is Los Angeles dining where it's like, you know, one plate perilla. It's like where banchan kind of takes on main course energy and there's seasonal vegetables at various stages of fermentation.

36:13And like banchan is the meal, which is not something you know a lot about Korean dining, which is which is not something that you usually see. No, it's not at all. It's very, very progressive. And it's also kind of like tucked in like, is that Echo Park? I don't even know that what neighborhood that is. It's yeah, it's like north. It's like North Chinatown. Yeah. And yeah. And so and it's in this like really fun space. It's basically like two tables outside, too. It's a lot of takeout. I mean, I would eat this three times a week if I could. So it's like, how do you value that, you know, alongside Funky, which is Evan Funky's like grand, swanky, amazing Italian restaurant where in a city where there's a ton of Italian food, but little is specific to like a certain style or region here.

36:55You can find pastas from not only a specific city, but it's like a shape that you might not find outside of this restaurant or that town in Italy. You know, you have Shannon Swindle's pastries, which are incredible. The service is great. So it's like, yeah, there's different specific experiences and they're both outstanding in their own ways, but like, and one is more accessible obviously. And we do take that in account affordability, accessibility when we're ranking. So, I mean, yeah, it's a hard, It's a hard one, but I feel like it was the right choice. I think it's very cool to see them next to each other and really is indicative of why L.A.

37:28really is America's most exciting restaurant city by many accounts. And really, the, you know, Funky and Beverly Hills is not for everyone. You know, not every diner will be able to go there and experience that. So I appreciate you tapping into accessibility. I want to move on to Baby Bistro, which, you know, for an outside observer, somebody who's maybe sitting in an office in New York and reading, you know, the paper of record and other things, it feels like it's like the most important restaurant in Los Angeles of the past, like, maybe 60 years. 60 years? No, I mean, this is hyperbole at the highest.

38:05The buzz around Baby Bistro was tremendous. And, you know, of course, Tejal wrote a really big piece and great piece about it. I've not been, but it's like the buzz was crazy this year for that restaurant. The buzz was crazy. So do you think when you say the most important restaurant, like what do you mean by important? I'm being so sarcastic there. Oh, okay. I'm hoping the pod format is going to help me here. It certainly isn't, of course. I just thought that it's just like the restaurant for like Q3, Q4 was the one that everyone was talking about and sucking the oxygen out of the room a little bit.

38:41And, you know, Miles is somebody who's tremendous chef and like has a great pedigree. And I again, I have not been there. I can't like give my own take on the meal. But, you know, for me, you know, polarizing restaurant. Not everybody I know loved it, but many did. But you you have your take on Baby Bistro. Yeah, I think that Miles, first of all, I've been following his career for so many years in L.A. He's great. You know, I appreciate how experimental. he can be he has a singular style of voice a vision and that comes through in all of the six all of the just six items on the menu so it's kind of it's like this wonderfully concise uh restaurant um and i don't know it's just uh yeah you never know what you're gonna get there and i and i love that yeah yeah it's exciting to me yeah it's exciting and and really a tight menu like that you got to order the menu essentially and and really um it it feels it speaks to me just theoretically um i'm hoping to get there soon and i'll report back my take um so i want to dig a little deeper in the list and just a couple spots that popped out and i'm just curious you know there's dark room out in santa anna there is uh tomat which i went to with bill and it's like this very cool restaurant like five minutes from lax which i think is really cool to see that on the list and thirdly uh sincerely syria in sherman oaks and i and that's been a place uh for my my friends out there i know they're fans of it but i've not been able to make it but i it sounds sounds like a great place yeah sincerely syria i probably eat this like at least once a week i am addicted to that beef and lamb shawarma um uh the owner is from like southwestern syria and he learned how to make it there and it's just like there's just these like warm spices and garlic and it's tucked into this pita or or what i like is this like ultra thin tortilla like bread um i asked for tahini and tum so it's probably i guess not the correct way but i like oh i mean that's my way i mean yeah sure there is a correct way but whatever it's yeah i love that combination it's so good um and no dark room is like my antidote to like every restaurant that starts to feel the same, the same aesthetic or the same menu.

41:00Like it is so wonderfully weird. Um, as advertised, it is very dark in there. And I am consistently surprised and delighted, um, by the food, the chefs there are Zach Scherer and, uh, Drew Adams. Um, and they kind of operate it like an experimental garage band. It's, it's very fun. The menu is always changing. They take big swings. Um, wow. I'm always excited to see, uh, what they do next. So, and they were doing, they were doing like these tasting menu dinners also so you could do that on the weekends and then you could you could just go in during the week for i don't know it's it's a really fun wacky restaurant it's in this strip mall actually it's not even a strip mall it's like an industrial complex in um santa anna which is the city in um orange county so yeah fun restaurant how do you think about orange county and balancing it with your with your list with the la 101 there's just i mean obviously there's so much in la yeah um and orange county could and should have its own list you know um so when we're looking at places like orange county as a whole or westminster we're just trying to select things that are something that you cannot duplicate or that no one else is doing in los angeles already so that's kind of how we yeah i mean it's an impossible task because you want to represent um orange county and and places outside of la county because you have readers out there obviously um but and if you did on the only orange county list it wouldn't be as exciting it wouldn't be like the definitive list um i recognize that um okay so let's talk about somni i've not been a three michelin star gets it like very soon after opening very very big news at least on the national point of view for la dining doesn't make it that high on your list um but i wanted to bring it up because it is you know michelin three star it's it's like recognized as one of the top restaurants in the entire state uh tell me your take on it I think that Somni, this is a perfect example of how we evaluate things separately from like Michelin.

42:56Somni is an experience where I think the staff, impeccable staff, really values showmanship. You know, they do this thing where they stand in front of each diner and they kind of drop the plates at the same time. Every element is kind of finished in front of you, whether it's with a sauce or some sort of garnish. Nothing is really what it seems. So I feel like if you enjoy and appreciate that style of dining and you have the money to afford it, like Somni totally delivers. It is totally worth it. Where it fits in L.A., but it's kind of this restaurant that like where you don't get like it kind of lacks a sense of place, if that makes sense.

43:29Like and this is in no way a criticism, just something we were considering that we always consider when we're ranking the list. Like, is this a restaurant that could exist anywhere in the world or is it a place that feels like it is distinctly of Los Angeles? And, you know, you could pick up Somni and it could live and thrive in any major city in the world. You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be L.A. So whereas other restaurants that may be ranked higher, maybe feel more representative of L.A. dining as a whole. So I think that's something we considered when ranking it. But I mean, Somni is excellent.

44:00It is such a it's such a cool restaurant. It makes perfect sense, Jen, and thank you for articulating it because I think you want this list to really represent Los Angeles and have a little bit more of an accessibility impulse than like traditional fine dining that can be templated over and over. And I would imagine the LA Times readers more are going to be possibly into Perilla and Tomat than the Somni. That's like – is that your instinct when thinking about the readership and who you're serving with this list? yeah i i do think maybe majority just because you know 99 of the population in la will never get to eat at somni so you know so we definitely we definitely take that into account yeah yeah yeah it's cool i mean it's cool to see it on the list all right well i want to talk about snubs because we have to like we have to go there and again i'm not an la guy uh i do go there with some frequency for me i'm just going to throw out my snubs these are places that i've been to and have interest in that did not appear on the list.

45:04You can respond however you want. All right. I really, I enjoyed Muse tremendously. I thought it was great. It felt like a good one. Horses, you know, I think with the background noise around it, it's still a very good restaurant by all accounts. Rasaruma, I thought that, you know, high praise in New York Times. Michael's always getting the snub in New York and LA by critics, like consistently, which I think is a travesty. Michael McCarty is a legend and I really have enjoyed my meals on both ghosts. A couple more, Ektra, great meal there. Ruen pear, I go there all the time. Call me basic. Call me not on top of what's called what's high.

45:39And the last one, and I'll let you respond, is young mani. I haven't been to the new space, so maybe it's not as good right now in the new space, but I got to say for Ophol and Korean-style grilling, young mani is dope. Those are my snubs, just for the record, but again, I'm not an LA guy. No, you eat here enough. Also, I don't know whether you come here once a year or once a decade if you eat somewhere and you really liked it, you know, that's good. And that's the thing. I'm so glad that you like these restaurants. And anything that someone likes that's not on the list could be, you know, characterized as a snub.

46:11So, I mean, I'm thrilled that you enjoyed these restaurants. You know, we did eat at all of these. I figured you did. So, yeah. So, you know, I think that we just, I'm not going to go into specifics about these because I think they're great. But we probably didn't have the experience you had there, if that makes sense. We didn't have the most amazing meals at all of these restaurants. So, you know. You said enough, Jen. I'm not – I really just – it was like an impossible question to – No, but I love that you love these places. I don't love all of them. I just thought for 101 – and again, I do not dine out in LA and live there.

46:54but uh they're all places that i would go back to um and i will go back to um now uh last last couple questions i mean where are you at with the red zeppi uh of it all uh boot you know bringing his his show to la oh you know i'm just waiting for it to happen yeah they've been talking about it for a long time and it's been very exciting um so yeah i don't actually i wish there was like a more solid timeframe for me to get extra excited about. But yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't know how it's gonna, I don't know. It's such a big name and Noma is so big that people are obviously excited and curious.

47:35But LA is so weird in that I feel like Angelinos have this attitude where like, we don't care what you did before. What are you going to do here? It's like, it's like the place where successful people from other areas of the world come and then it's just like, wait what happened like what happened um yeah so yeah i'm not saying that's gonna happen with renee i you know i i'm very excited about this but um la is fickle and tricky and weird so i'm very curious to see to see how it plays i mean i i i bet it will be as noma always it will be an experience for for those who are lucky enough to get tickets and and i've always been in town and posting some amazing shit on social just his sourcing and um yeah it's been famously very hard for outsiders to thrive in LA.

48:20So I'm glad you recognize that. But also look at them with open mind too. Yes, yes, yes. And last question, you know, excited for 2026. Are there any restaurants on the horizon that you are particularly going to be looking at closely? Yeah, there's some that just were too new to seriously be considered for this year. Like there's the Mulberry, which is a Korean restaurant that recently opened on Sautel that looks really fun. I'm just, I'm going to go in a week or so. Everything at Maidon Market, you know, that looks really fun. The restaurant itself and then also like the bigger food hall that she opened there.

48:58I don't know. The return of Ray Garcia is very exciting to me. He's kind of one of our biggest champions of Alta California cuisine and he just opened Broken Spanish Corridor and I'm very excited, very excited for that. But there's so many, you know, Sean Brock's Darling, like there's so many places where I'm excited to see how they evolve. I'm glad you brought up Sean's restaurant. I can't wait to check it out myself. And it's such an impressive list. Again, Jen, major props to you and Bill for truly doing the work. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining us at Taste. Thank you.

49:38Thank you very much.

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51:06Visit butcherbox.com slash taste to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Jordan Okun and Max Shapiro, welcome to This Is Taste. It's so great to have you on. Thank you, Matthew. Matt. You guys. I mean, listen, I don't listen to the food podcast, but I listen to yours. And it just really keeps me in the loop for all things L.A. And really just what is happening in the scene of food in restaurants and the restaurant culture. I really like the show. And you have some nice, you know, you have some enhancements you're making for next year.

51:53We will talk a little bit about that. But first, you know, each of you, I'll start with you, Jordan. Has it been a good year for Los Angeles dining? I mean, it was good, it was bad, and it was ugly, Matt. But it was kind of that in reverse. I mean, starting with the fires and the ice raids, very ugly. And then bad vibes from them and the closures that were coming, specifically one of our favorite spots, Stella West Hollywood. would uh but then you know some good started coming our way uh as like the city was rebuilding but uh you know our first three michelin star restaurants and we're kind of in this late year surge of a handful of small and focused and really well-intentioned uh restaurant openings that i think at least for me have me as excited as i've been about the restaurant scene here for quite some time.

52:49Max, what do you think about the year? I mean, do you feel, I mean, that Stella closure was, was big news. Um, do you agree with Jordan? Yeah. I mean, I'm going to mimic Jordan a little bit and say it was both a good year and a tough year for LA dining. Um, it has never been more expensive to eat out. It has never been more expensive to run a restaurant. Most people aren't making more money to keep up. So there's a real friction across the whole ecosystem. Um, we also didn't get the volume of big defining openings we've seen in past years but the staples the places that have uh really carried the city continued to deliver in and the new restaurants that did open have showed promise um so no it wasn't a banner year but it wasn't a lost year either it felt like a transition year a reset um and i'm optimistic about where things go next uh The restaurants that have opened at the end of the year in the 2026 slate look strong.

53:52And L.A. always reinvents itself. So I'm optimistic for the upcoming year. Yeah, I really appreciate L.A. for doing that. And let's stick with you, Max, and we'll get to you, Jordan, after. A couple memorable openings from the year we're focusing on new restaurants. And maybe like one opening that maybe landed with a bit of a thud. um uh obviously somni uh three michelin stars out of the gate um i mean few places have ever gotten three stars that fast in the world and we got one here in la you know it's funny somni got it in months and it took providence 20 years 20 years yeah um key uh the korean fine dining restaurant uh in the i call it the kanayoshi flex where you have sushi kanayoshi bar sawa etc that surprised me because his previous restaurant i did not like and he has matured and gotten better in a way where i ate that meal and i said damn this is this is really good and this guy has an identity uh i also really loved corridor 109 recently well it's a new one that's wow yeah a brand new one a japanese leaning uh like 11 course counter only tasting menu confident polished a singular point of view where it's all about the product um and i have a couple more if you want to hear it but or if you want to move on that's well let's do one maybe that didn't land so well and then i'll get to you jordan for your some of your new ones well the one that didn't land so well was darling in west hollywood yeah and i and i think we'll be getting into that later okay all right jordan what about you some a couple openings from the year that excited you well i think max named every tasting menu in los angeles i'll go the other way for sure getting back to this surge and kind of this late year wonderful cascade of smaller kind of almost like new age mom and pops opening we recently uh had really solid and promising meals at wilds uh at little fish um yeah so really looking forward to getting back to both of those you know max and helen's is memorable for all sorts of reasons uh good and bad but you know all the hype on that waffle is real wow and wait times are very real yeah like like like maybe six hours perhaps is a number i've seen floated online yeah their opening weekend was something ridiculous like eight hour wait list uh it's probably down to half of that and i think they just opened their patio which should relieve some of that but you know it's a perfect storm uh for a wildly busy restaurant yeah um you know chainsaw pies are finally readily available and that's a lovely thing and you know it's super hyped but comal's suadero tacos and tortillas dipped in mole are probably worth the hype and you know river it's always a good thing when Travis Lett is back inside a restaurant every day.

57:17I think those are my favorites. On Komal, I mean, by all means, one of the most important restaurants in LA right now. Let's go back to Somni and Max. What is your read virtually ignored by the national media? Food and Wine, BA, New York Times. It's really interesting. You're very high on this restaurant, but but it seems like a lot of people are kind of ignoring it. The only thing that I can think this is about is price. Because he's doing everything he did before at the previous Somni, but better. The only difference is it's in a standalone building, which is nicer, and it's much more expensive.

58:07I don't get any other differences, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jordan, what yourself? What do you feel about this restaurant? Like maybe one of LA's greats. I mean, three Michelin is, is, you know, we tend to not take any, uh, any organization serious other than Michelin and Michelin got it right. So everyone else who's not getting it right. Yeah. Doesn't really mean much to us. Fair enough. Stick with you, Jordan. I you you guys like put your body on the line multiple times a week by going out and reporting. I love it. You know, what excites you about getting in that car and driving for 45 minutes to an hour to go out to dinner in L.A.?

58:52I mean, look, we talked about it on the pod. Dining in LA is all about what we say, what we call the schlep. And, you know, this is not New York. We aren't always in walking distance of greatness or just a solid neighborhood restaurant. You want a great restaurant in Los Angeles, you are schlepping almost always. So we don't think twice about the schlep, but if a restaurant is worth the schlep, then that excites us. So we're desperate to find the next schlep-worthy spot. For us, Wilds was a schlep and worth it. to find the next Dunsmore, to find the next Bevelle, to find the next Girong, to find the next Maurice Cusilisco, being worth the schlep, that keeps it exciting in LA.

59:48How about you, Max? I mean, an hour-long drive does not excite me. It's not like I'm driving 40 miles. I'm sitting in LA traffic wishing for teleportation. But I do it because I genuinely love dining out. I love discovering something great and supporting people doing good work. So that makes the gridlock worth it for me. Yeah. So I spent some quality time in L.A. over the past year. I've had memorable meals at Etra, Kismet, Muse, Found Oyster, Safi's, Yang's Kitchen. None of those were necessarily new. I mean, Muse, I guess, would be kind of new. But I just want to get your takes on like just generally some favorite meals, not on the necessarily the new side.

1:00:37okay yeah i mean listen this this could be a very long list um but i found myself loving meals at shunji who's constantly disrespected by food media and michelin um i've had a couple great meals at providence key corridor 109 a million meals at river ceviche project which has been around since uh 2019 or 20 yeah something it's been around for a while and it's slept on but you know a great restaurant dunsmore kato budenoki somni muse alto and studio city is impressing me with their potential and their uh intention uh sushi kanayoshi the list goes on and on and like jordan said we've had really good meals at little fish and wilds yeah um a lot of good meals have been had i like i like when you dive into an experience like the alto episode when you talked about the whole fish that you ordered in advance.

1:01:41This restaurant's in Studio City. It's not in the hotbed of dining in L.A., but it sounds really cool. You can say that. It sounds really cool, though. Tell us a little bit about this place. Yeah, so Esteban and Juana, they come from a major three-Michelin star, world's 50 best fine dining background. He's from Argentina. She's from Uruguay and they want to inject that culture into the food, but they also bring in the Basque culture because they worked in Basque country for so long. So they have, you know, they turned instead of using a beef chuleta, they did a pizza and Barnett's pork chuleta that's dry aged in kombu, then cold smoke, then grilled over the fire.

1:02:30There's a lot of fire cooking, some Basque influence. They copied the Casa Julian peppers that are cooked in beef fat in the oven for five hours and the charcoal oven for five hours. There's great potential at this restaurant. They're such sweet individuals. And I just really I just hope that Studio City can get behind them and have them remain successful. Or people from who are traveling to L.A. this winter go out to Studio City to Alta. Jordan how about yourself restaurants meals it could be established places could be your local like that really excited you this year I mean we keep returning to Dunsmore a solid 45 to 60 on the schlep meter and worth it that's a rare thing we're eating at Mews again this weekend oh cool it's been a while it's a level of style and dining like you don't want to overdo but there is no one like Fardad in LA as you know man i heard that episode and i look forward to seeing him again and experiencing that whole vibe uh i'm a sushi peasant but i think back to uh the new look nozawa bar meal that we had earlier and i crave it uh i'm always in the mood for lamb neck at bevel i'm always in the mood for mia mia's chicken shawarma wrap they desperately need to open their shop i'm just very pleased with this chicken shawarma wrap movement that's happening.

1:04:01I love it. I mean, the shawarma can be expressed in many ways. And it's like, it comes down to the actual wrap itself. Like, is it like a naturally leavened wrap? Is it thick? Is it thin? You know, hand-rolled? I feel that's a really interesting food. Yeah, and this one is impossibly thin. Totally authentic from Jordan. And it's just kind of a textural, savory explosion that it's driving people crazy here. I mean, they're only open two days a week. Mia Mia lines are hours, hours long, always selling out. We just had Jess Kosolo on this week and she's opening dinner at Squirrel. Thoughts on this evolution?

1:04:50It's been a long time coming. I think I've heard about her opening a squirrel dinner for years. Yeah. Um, but you know, I think, I think before that may have been a, a failed concept, but now with, with Buddha Noki doing so well and other places in the area doing so well, um, maybe dinner is a hit. Who knows? Yeah. Virgil village has got some spots for sure. And it falls into a really unique little, little pocket of LA. Um, I just, Jessica, Jessica has a commitment to being on the line that a lot of chefs in her position and her years of doing it don't do. And so I think it's promising. But yeah, I mean, L.A.'s been hearing about Squirrel Dinner forever.

1:05:40And I think she has successfully put in the work to earn her spot to get through the controversy. and I'm down. Let's go. I love that observation, Jordan. It's really smart. It's why I like your show because I think people don't realize that she does work every Sunday and she doesn't have to. I mean, with a restaurant that's successful and with that consistent of a crowd, you don't have to do it. But that's why I think we all appreciate her work. Max, one overrated, one underrated LA restaurant right now and then I'll get to you, Jordan. I love it. Just one? Only one? You know, you got your own podcast.

1:06:23I'm going to point to yours and link in the show notes. You got to subscribe. I rarely like to give the competition a tip, but Air Jordan or named TK is a must listen. You know, there's a lot of repetition. Like I wrote down three overrated. I'll give you one. You can give me three. It's fine. If you've done the work and the homework, I'll take it. No, it's okay. You know, I need to say Naka just because, not because it's a bad restaurant, but it's not very good. And it's always placed on a pedestal for years. And, you know, a Michelin demoted it, but, you know, LA Times has it high and they're packed.

1:07:07And so I just think it's overrated because I don't think it's a very good restaurant. Simone in Venice, it's also not a bad restaurant. But after three minutes, sorry, three visits with too many lowlights, I can't call it a good LA restaurant, but LA food media seems to be enamored with it. And I'm going to, I'm going to drop the hammer. Republique. And I can say this because I've been 30 to 40 times. It is inconsistent. It is stagnant and it's too expensive for what you get. And then underrated, uh, my man, Shunji. See, there's repetitive. It's one of the best sushi is in the country, yet L.A.

1:07:50barely appreciates it. And it's bizarre. I'll just I'll leave it there at Shinji. I had two others as well. Yeah, yeah. Let's keep it. I mean, if you have another underrated, up to you, up to you. I mean, horses, you know, everyone's forgotten about horses. The controversy is over and the place is still doing 300 covers a night and and and treating people well and doing good. Well, I think we've covered that from guests who've been on the show. I mean, it's obviously brand new. I mean, new leadership there. It's not the bozos who were there before. And it's a really, really beloved neighborhood restaurant.

1:08:28Yeah, and the beauty is it's not new leadership because one of their chefs that started with them, Brittany Ha, who left during all the issues, came back. And I think the food is better than ever now. Right. Totally. That's what. Yes. Correct. It's it's somebody who knows the place, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Not the same people. Someone that had the had the original DNA. I mean, and like front of house hasn't changed and they have a whole energy there that people like. I haven't been there. I've only been there once. And I think it's on my list when I'm heading back to L.A. just get eyes on it.

1:09:05Great call there. Great call that restaurants can actually weather storms when there's some foundational issues. but correctable issues. Yeah, absolutely. And squirrel and horses are two examples. Jordan, overrated, underrated? Oh, man. The overrated LA list is theic, Matt.

1:09:28Look, Max and I, we do not understand Simone and Pizzeria Bianca. We are in constant confusion of both of those. people are lost in the camellia sauce because of their love for courtney and charles but it's not near the level of subaki and ototo first born was a snub on the 101 list that seems fair you know the owners of baru are lovely people people need to take it easy we've talked about baby bistro and how tajal needed to relax with that review and just let the restaurant and miles do what they do without the tsunami of hype uh but that cucumber cream top pine nut cookie was quite delightful the cookie once again getting getting some ink um yes well it's crazy she didn't she didn't understand the cookie at first she wrote and like that was one of the only things i understood and really fell in love with that baby bistro and And then underrated, I would say Sushi Sonagi.

1:10:29It's just being completely ignored, especially by the LA Times 101 best restaurant list two years in a row. It's just criminal. It's borderline negligent. Subscribers could probably sue them over this. There's some litigation in order. I want to close. Thank you guys for this time. And I, again, just love your show. Let's talk about the show. Next year, you're going to be making some changes. expanding the scope. I'll start with you, Jordan. It's your namesake show. I mean, Max has been riding shotgun for a long time. What are some of the changes you're making and what are you looking to do? Yeah, I mean, the podcast has really been some pump up the volume, pirate radio, guerrilla art that we are going to take in a more focused and legitimate, broader direction.

1:11:20Especially when it comes to talking about exploring food in restaurants and pop culture. outside of Los Angeles. So I think the comedic DNA of the show will remain the same with a new name. There were rumors we were going to be called Chewish. We're not. Oh my God. And so a new look is coming in early 2026 that won't solely be focused on Los Angeles the way Air Jordan has. Well, that seems apt because both of you travel and know not just LA. I mean, Max, how do you see this expanded scope working? I see it just broadening our scope and broadening our audience and bringing more things to light that aren't just LA focused.

1:12:16And I think that that's what we both want to do. We also want to do more interviews. We also maybe want to expand the show to have more than one episode a week. There are a lot of things in the works. And we're looking forward to making this more of a thing than just this Pirate Radio LA Food Podcast. It's going to be much more. Well, I look forward to the rebrand, though I'm happy to hear that the comedic roots are remaining firmly in the soil because it's a very funny show. Max and Jordan, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thanks, Matt. Really appreciate it. Matthew, thank you.

1:13:06This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.